Condi players are climbing on the MMR ladder
evades, blocks, and most invuns work against condi damage, and you have resistance
I don’t know how delusional you are but, evades and blocks do nothing against condition damage. You can’t evade conditions nor block them once they are applied to you the only way to get rid of them is through cleanse.
You could try avoiding the application. It’s no harder than avoiding a Power based attack.
For example, Grasping Dead is no harder to avoid than Maul, but I bet I know which one you dodge and which you ignore at the time.
no wonder these players think condi is OP. they aren’t smart enough to think of blocking or evading the attacks that apply the condis
You do know why condi builds are so prevalent? Because its a foolproof and mindless gameplay, something the carebears / casuals adore. It doesn’t matter if you attempt to ’ evade or block the attacks that apply the condis ’ because the relevant condi builds APPLY CONDITIONS ON AUTO ATTACK ontop of the ’ condi burst skills ‘. So even if you use your defensive abilities dealing with just the condi burst, then you’re kitten out of luck because in 3 seconds your gonna have another 10+ confusion stacks and 10+ torment stacks killing you regardless of if your moving / not attacking.
Ether Bolt: 2s Torment (it tickles). Ether Blast: 3s Torment (stop that!). Ether Clone: nothing.
Winds of Chaos: 33% chance 7s Bleed (yawn). 33% chance 1s Burning (wow so OP). 33% 5s Vulnerability (I am undone!).
.Wow! Great response! You really proved your point by saying things like ’ it tickles ’, ’ yawn ’ and ’stop that! ’. Just another delusional nutjob trying to justify his abuse of over the top condition damage scaling.
Okay. Then please state for the record that you believe 2/3s Torment and 66% chance to apply 7s Bleeding or 1s Burning is OP and is what condition builds use to kill you after you mitigate their burst.
I was trying to explain this to Bumy the other day. He wasn’t able to understand that the confusion/torment stacks that were killing him didn’t come from auto-attacks, but instead, from shatters, the same source of massive damage in power builds. The auto-attack damage is marginal compared to the conditions applied from the shatters, which can and should be dodged, avoided, or what have you, the same as when up against a power build.
Those condition shatters also have to be timed to be effective. That condition burst has to be stacked to really kill you. And… because it’s primarily based on Confustion/Torment damage, that means the target also has to contribute to making the damage effective enough to result in a kill.
So, follow me on this… If a Mesmer using conditions to kill you is bad because doing so takes no skill, then, because the only meaningful damage comes from Confusion/Torment applied via shatters, and requires the target to also contribute by continuing to attack/move to result in enough damage to kill, then what does that make the target? Worse?
Jesus this gotten out of hand.
First off, going a condition team can be risky. A GOOD signet necromancer can just ROFLSTOMP your entire team while bunking mid point. Soaking conditions and spiking anyone they please.
Secondly this problem will not stay around. Tempests (unless they get heavily nerfed) are Shout Warriors 2.0 able to keep their entire team healthy while playing super aggressive. A constant supply of boons, heals, auras, condition removal makes Tempests a massive threat. Trust me, when all the bad ele’s fall out and good ele’s that actually understand elementalists mechanics you’ll see a Tempests on every team and you might start cursing that.
Third, conditions have a lot of problems. So do boons. But ArenaNet refuses to acknowledge the design flaws so…
Jesus this gotten out of hand.
First off, going a condition team can be risky. A GOOD signet necromancer can just ROFLSTOMP your entire team while bunking mid point. Soaking conditions and spiking anyone they please.
At most Signet Necros can tank out 2 condition specs assuming the necro is a little more skilled. Nothing more.
With regards to WvW: I think the main reason condition builds are so strong in WvW is because of +40% condition duration food. if you’re not eating -40% condition duration food as a counter, it’s a huge, huge increase to condi pressure, much greater than any food can give to a power build.
IMO, both +40% and -40% condi duration food need a big whack of the nerfhammer.
As for sPvP, well, I think the fact that no true condition build other than Burn Guard has seen tourney level play says it all. If you’re arguing about condition builds being too effective against newbies (which may or may not be true, not the point here), I’d say balance should not be based on the lowest common denominator.
As for sPvP, well, I think the fact that no true condition build other than Burn Guard has seen tourney level play says it all. If you’re arguing about condition builds being too effective against newbies (which may or may not be true, not the point here), I’d say balance should not be based on the lowest common denominator.
Terrormancer saw tourney play for a while, but its output kept getting nerfed repeatedly due to Dhuumfire. Then the condition overhaul happened and, due to Necro not having decent burning and the bleed nerfs, it dropped even further into being totally unviable.
This is actually pretty well said. I agree with the OP.
-a mediocre player who gets burned a lot.
Guys, the OP even states:
They literally are getting carried to higher levels of play because lower tiers do not know how to deal with conditions
……
and consistently face players that are completely above their skill level to such an extend that they don’t even have a chance in 1v1 or even the slightest idea how to play PVP.
To summarize: condi’s are effective at low levels, but not at high levels. The OP even states that condi’s cannot carry the lower player effectively at high levels.
Exactly what is the problem?
Guys, the OP even states:
They literally are getting carried to higher levels of play because lower tiers do not know how to deal with conditions
……
and consistently face players that are completely above their skill level to such an extend that they don’t even have a chance in 1v1 or even the slightest idea how to play PVP.To summarize: condi’s are effective at low levels, but not at high levels. The OP even states that condi’s cannot carry the lower player effectively at high levels.
Exactly what is the problem?
Not sure. On his first post, he said he runs a guild that teaches pvp and that conditions are too effective in low tiers.
From the gist of his post, his low tier guildies are getting owned by condis and that condis are bad for the game coz it’s not fun for them. I think he wants devs to cripple the effectiveness of condition damage so his low tier guildies could run brain dead dps builds coz they don’t like wasting traits/utilities on cleansing
Mini Unagi – Iuther – Iiq – Trend – lancaster
Guys, the OP even states:
They literally are getting carried to higher levels of play because lower tiers do not know how to deal with conditions
……
and consistently face players that are completely above their skill level to such an extend that they don’t even have a chance in 1v1 or even the slightest idea how to play PVP.To summarize: condi’s are effective at low levels, but not at high levels. The OP even states that condi’s cannot carry the lower player effectively at high levels.
Exactly what is the problem?
Not sure. On his first post, he said he runs a guild that teaches pvp and that conditions are too effective in low tiers.
From the gist of his post, his low tier guildies are getting owned by condis and that condis are bad for the game coz it’s not fun for them. I think he wants devs to cripple the effectiveness of condition damage so his low tier guildies could run brain dead dps builds coz they don’t like wasting traits/utilities on cleansing
Actually that’s not even close to what he said.
He said low level PvP players gravitate towards condi builds due to the ease of play and how the builds carry them. They then fight players who are good and get absolutely destroyed.
They can’t win at this level due to never actually learning how to play the game since condi builds are carrying them to victory.
His point is quite valid considering these players are now reaching higher MMR ranks. At a base level they aren’t good at this game but due to the mechanics of conditions excel. I’m willing to bet the majority of people who queue for PvP are either solo or 2-3 man parties. The best way to victory is to make sure you can reliably hold 2-3 points for the majority of the game.
The condition builds are usually your best builds the require the least amount of skill to see positive returns on gameplay. Once you become familiar on such builds you can start to really exploit the problems with the condition specs vs built in defenses on the build.
Lemme cut this off right now and just say this. The way to beat a team full of condi builds is to use group cleanses and extremely good rotations. This generally requires team speak coordination or extremely lucky roll on really good teammates in matchmaking, and at high levels of play you meet these requirements. A random team full of PUGs or teams w/out Teamspeak will generally not have the means necessary to overcome the obstacle.
There is literally no reason atm to run a dps character except on thief or mesmer. Rangers and warriors are not legit options on higher tier play teams and the rest is sustain with minimal damage from condi. thats the game at the moment.
I think Engi can run marauders if they’re playing a range game. Or at least I get by in mid level play.
The way to beat a team full of condi builds is to use group cleanses and extremely good rotations. This generally requires team speak coordination or extremely lucky roll on really good teammates in matchmaking, and at high levels of play you meet these requirements. A random team full of PUGs or teams w/out Teamspeak will generally not have the means necessary to overcome the obstacle.
Good rotations are needed to beat any decent team, so that’s really a neutral point. As far as group cleansing goes, that really doesn’t require teamspeak…anyone with group cleanses is actively watching their party’s condi’s and cleansing when needed. This doesn’t require team coordination to be effective, just one player with decent situational awareness.
All it requires is one guardian, for example. See red? Hit F2. How much simpler can it get?
As the OP and others point out, a bad player running condi’s won’t be effective at higher levels. On the other hand, a good player can run anything and be effective.
If beginners gravitate towards condi builds, then they should understand the basic mechanics of condition damage and therefore be aware of its effects. Awareness includes the importance of having cleanses.
If you conclude beginners gravitate towards condi builds, isn’t it weird for them to easily die from it at the same time? More than anyone else, they should be more cautious towards other conditions and have good defense against the same exact thing they try to kill others with.
I actually believe that beginners are more inclined to high dps physical damage more than conditions. Of course the difference between a highly skilled player and a noob is how much of their skills actually land on opponents and how much longer they survive in combat.
Mini Unagi – Iuther – Iiq – Trend – lancaster
As if most builds including direct damage are hard to play in the first place…
Regarding condition mesmers, the only skills to keep an eye out for and avoid (block, evade, whatever…) are Shatters, iCounter, Confusing Images and possibly the pDuelist burst (include magic bullet with that as well).
Given you can cleave illusions with no care in the world now, and Shatters are not difficult to avoid with a tiny bit of thought, it’s not difficult to avoid their damage the same as power or hybrid builds. Ok if you get hit by a few stacks of torment/confusion it’s easy to shrug off (I personally tend to ignore less than 3 stacks of torment and confusion). And even with confusion’s pitiful DoT it can be countered by kiting and taking care with skill use.
If I’m able to hold my own and succeed as a power build using only mantra of resolve to cleanse vs a condi mesmer, and only consider myself to be an average player, then anyone should be able to do it providing they take time to learn key mesmer condition application skills and gameplay habits (many follow predictable skill usage).
The only thing that makes condition mesmers “(too) powerful” is if they take PU, for obvious reasons. Without PU, mesmer condition builds are average and can be easily neutered. I believe if PU (the TRAIT) either nerfed or condition builds have to make a sacrifice to use it, then there is no problem at all.
If beginners gravitate towards condi builds, then they should understand the basic mechanics of condition damage and therefore be aware of its effects. Awareness includes the importance of having cleanses.
If you conclude beginners gravitate towards condi builds, isn’t it weird for them to easily die from it at the same time? More than anyone else, they should be more cautious towards other conditions and have good defense against the same exact thing they try to kill others with.
I actually believe that beginners are more inclined to high dps physical damage more than conditions. Of course the difference between a highly skilled player and a noob is how much of their skills actually land on opponents and how much longer they survive in combat.
You would think so, which is why these threads are always so silly.
What is this “high level” PvP everyone keeps talking about and how many of us are really participating in it on any given day? Really? How many of you are participating in tune group vs. tuned group match ups on a regular basis?
Also, why am I seeing high MMR players getting rekt by condition builds? Are the condi builds that good? Are high MMR players not adapting? What is the reason for this?
…
Also, why am I seeing high MMR players getting rekt by condition builds? Are the condi builds that good? Are high MMR players not adapting? What is the reason for this?
—Condi mesmer, engi, and guard are really bursty—>
—These bursty builds are designed to down people before they can react, which is a moderately reliable way to down people in the current cele/soldier/bunker meta, which is effective at outliving sustained damage—>;
(in the exact same way pre- and post-patch burst builds work[ed]).
—Counterplay: All of the damage can be mitigated by condi cleanses—>
—People run out of condi cleanses—>
—People QQ
(edited by Salamander.2504)