Guild Wars 2

Lilyanna.9361:

Honest John.4673:

Lilyanna.9361:

At the end of the day, no one is really going to -try-. They are in it for the gold and rewards and you know it.

Didn’t read the rest of your post after this. It’s like you can’t possibly comprehend the attitude towards the game of someone trying to be competitive has. Like that’s a good thing.

How am I not comprehending this?
How is this benefiting anyone?
How are people truly being competitive if they know even if they lose they are still getting reward?
Having a competitive attitude is wanting to -be good- at whatever class or classes you pick up?
Allowing this idea of: “Meh, so what if I lose, I’m still getting the good stuff?”
What am I missing exactly?
I am not here to whine or argue, I am here to get answers because this is simply not adding up anymore.
If you wish to give me a legit answer or not, fine, that is your choice, no skin off of my teeth, but this does not simply add up.
But hey, I don’t blame you, I’m sure you do not take the time to read many other things as well.

You are not comprehending this because you can’t figure out that people play for more than just rewards.

This system benefits people who wanted to see their actual MMR to see where they stand. A lot of people are happy about this and this alone.

People are still being competitive because they do not care for material rewards. If I lose my rating drops, I want to play again to win more to get it back up and higher than before. I don’t even look at the rewards. Bet you didn’t know people did that.

Yes, having a competitive attitude is wanting to win no matter what.

You’re the only one allowing the idea of “Meh, so what if I lose, I’m still getting the good stuff?” I have not nor will I ever think like that, and the people who do get what they deserve.

Your missing that people don’t care about consolation prizes and will play to win to increase their rating and for that reason only.

Polismassa.6740:

2) Your rating is not a pure measure of your skill MMR in a team based game is, and always will be a measure of your ability to win matches.

Just to build upon this:

There are a lot of different facets to ‘ability to win matches’. Players can be good at winning duels or winning team fights or picking winning fights or fighting on the right points or rotating between points or playing good builds for the meta or swapping to the right build for the match-up or filling in effectively to balance your team composition or playing hard every game or not tilting or encouraging teammates and keeping people focused.

Or a whole lot of things I didn’t mention in that run-on sentence above.

The difference between a pro-level player and an experienced but middling journeyman (say, gold level) player isn’t that the pro is a bit better at all of these things. It’s almost always the case that the pro is good at almost all of these things, while your middling, experienced player is good (sometimes even pro-level!) at some of these things, and just a dumpster fire at others.

Good but not great players include people that can beat everyone they face in a 1v1 but are constantly engaged in bad fights (trying to kill a guardian on a fully capped point with their thief), people who can’t win a duel for the life of them but pick teamfights they can contribute to well, people who know a single trick (condi mesmer that always goes far!) that sometimes dominates and sometimes feeds, people who often play well but tilt and throw as soon as something goes badly (thus losing games that could be recovered and won).

The really insidious part of this? If you are one of those players, you’re probably really focused on the parts of your game that you are good at, and blind to those that are holding you back. You’re also blind to the good things your teammates are doing (that you are not good at), while their flaws (in areas that are your strengths) are on full display.

Which is why you think your teammate (with the same MMR and similar match win performance) is terrible, and why that teammate thinks that you are terrible. It’s why there’s a pretty big range of play (generally the 75th to the 95th percentile, roughly) that is just an utterly miserable rage-fast, a bunch of skilled but fundamentally flawed players picking at each other’s faults.

If you want to get better, don’t look at that ‘scrub’ with the same rating as you in disbelief. Figure out what he’s doing that you aren’t – because, odds are, that’s what’s holding you back.

5 losses out of 5 so far although one was a crash to desktop hoping for a win soon!

Evan Lesh.3295:

Ensign.2189:

Polismassa.6740:

2) Your rating is not a pure measure of your skill MMR in a team based game is, and always will be a measure of your ability to win matches.

Just to build upon this:

There are a lot of different facets to ‘ability to win matches’. Players can be good at winning duels or winning team fights or picking winning fights or fighting on the right points or rotating between points or playing good builds for the meta or swapping to the right build for the match-up or filling in effectively to balance your team composition or playing hard every game or not tilting or encouraging teammates and keeping people focused.

Or a whole lot of things I didn’t mention in that run-on sentence above.

The difference between a pro-level player and an experienced but middling journeyman (say, gold level) player isn’t that the pro is a bit better at all of these things. It’s almost always the case that the pro is good at almost all of these things, while your middling, experienced player is good (sometimes even pro-level!) at some of these things, and just a dumpster fire at others.

Good but not great players include people that can beat everyone they face in a 1v1 but are constantly engaged in bad fights (trying to kill a guardian on a fully capped point with their thief), people who can’t win a duel for the life of them but pick teamfights they can contribute to well, people who know a single trick (condi mesmer that always goes far!) that sometimes dominates and sometimes feeds, people who often play well but tilt and throw as soon as something goes badly (thus losing games that could be recovered and won).

The really insidious part of this? If you are one of those players, you’re probably really focused on the parts of your game that you are good at, and blind to those that are holding you back. You’re also blind to the good things your teammates are doing (that you are not good at), while their flaws (in areas that are your strengths) are on full display.

Which is why you think your teammate (with the same MMR and similar match win performance) is terrible, and why that teammate thinks that you are terrible. It’s why there’s a pretty big range of play (generally the 75th to the 95th percentile, roughly) that is just an utterly miserable rage-fast, a bunch of skilled but fundamentally flawed players picking at each other’s faults.

If you want to get better, don’t look at that ‘scrub’ with the same rating as you in disbelief. Figure out what he’s doing that you aren’t – because, odds are, that’s what’s holding you back.

slow clap

Can we sticky this?

Ensign.2189:

Polismassa.6740:

2) Your rating is not a pure measure of your skill MMR in a team based game is, and always will be a measure of your ability to win matches.

Just to build upon this:

There are a lot of different facets to ‘ability to win matches’. Players can be good at winning duels or winning team fights or picking winning fights or fighting on the right points or rotating between points or playing good builds for the meta or swapping to the right build for the match-up or filling in effectively to balance your team composition or playing hard every game or not tilting or encouraging teammates and keeping people focused.

Or a whole lot of things I didn’t mention in that run-on sentence above.

The difference between a pro-level player and an experienced but middling journeyman (say, gold level) player isn’t that the pro is a bit better at all of these things. It’s almost always the case that the pro is good at almost all of these things, while your middling, experienced player is good (sometimes even pro-level!) at some of these things, and just a dumpster fire at others.

Good but not great players include people that can beat everyone they face in a 1v1 but are constantly engaged in bad fights (trying to kill a guardian on a fully capped point with their thief), people who can’t win a duel for the life of them but pick teamfights they can contribute to well, people who know a single trick (condi mesmer that always goes far!) that sometimes dominates and sometimes feeds, people who often play well but tilt and throw as soon as something goes badly (thus losing games that could be recovered and won).

The really insidious part of this? If you are one of those players, you’re probably really focused on the parts of your game that you are good at, and blind to those that are holding you back. You’re also blind to the good things your teammates are doing (that you are not good at), while their flaws (in areas that are your strengths) are on full display.

Which is why you think your teammate (with the same MMR and similar match win performance) is terrible, and why that teammate thinks that you are terrible. It’s why there’s a pretty big range of play (generally the 75th to the 95th percentile, roughly) that is just an utterly miserable rage-fast, a bunch of skilled but fundamentally flawed players picking at each other’s faults.

If you want to get better, don’t look at that ‘scrub’ with the same rating as you in disbelief. Figure out what he’s doing that you aren’t – because, odds are, that’s what’s holding you back.

This is a great post that a lot of the people on this forum needs to read. Paired with the post it replied to this is pure forum gold. People should have to read this before posting.

Yeah, we got it, it’s a great post about how you play, but it’s totally off the topic and has nothing to do with a obviously flawed system behind.

I do not play PvP because the matchmaking is bad on paper already, 6.5 years of LoL and I have had literally HOURS of discussion why matchmaking of 5 players with dozens of factors can’t work (premade handicaps, leavers, balance, 80% of your personal rating not in your hand, etc.). It’s a number that is meaningless “matched” together with other meaningless numbers. Flipping coins is probably a safer way than this matchmaking.

As said, I do not play PvP due to my knowledge it can’t work at all. Try building a skyscraper on sand, and each story there is another problem with the statics that make it tilt left or right (reasons above, leavers, premade handicaps,…) and in the end you don’t have a skyscraper that is becoming straight (proper MMR/placing) – it’s a mess of a wonky pile that bounces you back and forth.

But back again, I just read this thread and Ensign has brought up good points at how to have a good view on the game – read as: To climb. It reads more that people want to be in their proper divisions with close games, and not being bounced back and forth with heavy losses and wins even when there is data of over 100 games provided, as read in older threads. And that is totally not the subject of Ensign’s post.

Excelsior.

The problem is that the match making changes from season to season.

Stop changing what has worked over many years – your team is not that smart.

phokus.8934:

The problem is that the match making changes from season to season.

Stop changing what has worked over many years – your team is not that smart.

As far as i know, the actual matchmaking was only different in season 2 and 3. Season 1,4,5 and pre season PvP should have the same (or at least similar) matchmaking. The only thing that changed, is the way you are rewarded.

ascended glory shard is terrible idea now ranked is full by people who afking or rushing or almost never play pvp

Evan Lesh.3295:

Ensign.2189:

Polismassa.6740:

2) Your rating is not a pure measure of your skill MMR in a team based game is, and always will be a measure of your ability to win matches.

Just to build upon this:

There are a lot of different facets to ‘ability to win matches’. Players can be good at winning duels or winning team fights or picking winning fights or fighting on the right points or rotating between points or playing good builds for the meta or swapping to the right build for the match-up or filling in effectively to balance your team composition or playing hard every game or not tilting or encouraging teammates and keeping people focused.

Or a whole lot of things I didn’t mention in that run-on sentence above.

The difference between a pro-level player and an experienced but middling journeyman (say, gold level) player isn’t that the pro is a bit better at all of these things. It’s almost always the case that the pro is good at almost all of these things, while your middling, experienced player is good (sometimes even pro-level!) at some of these things, and just a dumpster fire at others.

Good but not great players include people that can beat everyone they face in a 1v1 but are constantly engaged in bad fights (trying to kill a guardian on a fully capped point with their thief), people who can’t win a duel for the life of them but pick teamfights they can contribute to well, people who know a single trick (condi mesmer that always goes far!) that sometimes dominates and sometimes feeds, people who often play well but tilt and throw as soon as something goes badly (thus losing games that could be recovered and won).

The really insidious part of this? If you are one of those players, you’re probably really focused on the parts of your game that you are good at, and blind to those that are holding you back. You’re also blind to the good things your teammates are doing (that you are not good at), while their flaws (in areas that are your strengths) are on full display.

Which is why you think your teammate (with the same MMR and similar match win performance) is terrible, and why that teammate thinks that you are terrible. It’s why there’s a pretty big range of play (generally the 75th to the 95th percentile, roughly) that is just an utterly miserable rage-fast, a bunch of skilled but fundamentally flawed players picking at each other’s faults.

If you want to get better, don’t look at that ‘scrub’ with the same rating as you in disbelief. Figure out what he’s doing that you aren’t – because, odds are, that’s what’s holding you back.

slow clap

SO late to the party…but SO good… <3

its just a joke. Matchmaking, Balance.. everything about spvp is just a terrible joke.

every game i get these insanely terrible matchups where the enemy is clearly better than my team. Just severely one-sided. This just goes on until i get lucky and then my team is completely destroying the enemy team.

I’ve gone maybe 7 games where my team will never use shift-t. I’m the only one who’ll target which becomes pointless since they never go for the target. Why? Do not ask me.

Its just luck. If you have crap luck you’re going to get nowhere.

Then you have the “whoever has the most DH on the side wins” scenario which apparently is an actual thing lol. I mean it just is. They’re too safe, low skill floor / high skill ceiling, damage dealing melee tank ranged aoe support yada yada. Its kinda silly actually.

Evans remarks are getting unprofessional. It’s fine for us but when it’s your job it’s not ok.

Gwaihir.1745:

Evans remarks are getting unprofessional. It’s fine for us but when it’s your job it’s not ok.

It’s not his job to be a professional forum contributor, it’s his job to programm parts of the game related to PvP.

Amazing post from Ensign.2189 :-). Sticky it for all PvP ers :-)

I got a loss streak but i don´t pick on others i look what i can do better. I can tell a lot of things i did good or even amazing but lost- Often it´s hard to understand why we are suddenly behind due to being focused on what you are doing (like bunkering a point in a 1:2 for two minutes) Then i lokk and thing OMG we just were ahead, i held 2 off and we got 100 behind WTF??? I don´t know. I was not map aware i focused on holding the point and survive and rely that my team capitalizes on that. When analyzing it´s nearly always that team coordination is totally breaking appart after the first death´s. And then human factors kick in, in worst case AFK or someone starting to rant which leads to a downspiral. you cant win all, but you can try harder and keep an eye on the others. I don´t like klicking ready fast, the time is short but you can try to get a bit feeling and strategy and it realy helps. (Well often doesn´t save from the usualy chaos after a whipe annyways ….)

And the post won´t solve MM or system issues. But it´s one of the most important parts in human life to improve. Self reflection.

DTATL.9641:

This is a great post that a lot of the people on this forum needs to read. Paired with the post it replied to this is pure forum gold. People should have to read this before posting.

+1, both posts are well-articulated and thoughtful.

Gwaihir.1745:

Evans remarks are getting unprofessional. It’s fine for us but when it’s your job it’s not ok.

Yeah, technically we’re his customers but in the end we’re both players of the game. And I would much rather be treated like a fellow player than a customer.

Honest John.4673:

MissCee.1295:

When I saw the news about removing personal and introduction of top stats I was optimistic. As others have said, to rank an individual based on a team W/L is misguided. What I don’t understand is why the top stats don’t contribute to your rating. If they were, you could play well on a losing team and it would be at least somehow represented in your rating. As is it, you can sweep the board of top stats on a losing team only to see your rating drop.

A keyboard turner on a guard can bang his head against the keyboard and get top damage. A mouth breather can rush far and 1v1 there for ages and get the most offense, any heal ele can spam heals in losing teamfight after losing teamfight and get top healing, any thief can hop around the map tagging every kill and get top kills and all the while each of these players can forget about the point of the game and still lose.

B-but they got T O P S T A T S!!!

I totally agree, but… there are players on losing sides who actively competing and their rating relies solely on the Team W/L. All I’m suggesting is that if we are going to have any sort of personal score or top stat should count towards the individual’s rating. Those types of players you mention will soon find themselves out of their depth if/when they progress and promptly go down again.

Gwaihir.1745:

Evans remarks are getting unprofessional. It’s fine for us but when it’s your job it’s not ok.

Lol, harden up and let the devs have some fun. This is a nice change from them being locked away in their shell from us.