Guild Wars 2

I think it’s quite obvious Chronomancer is still somewhat not in tone with the other classes.

I’ll let Revenant for what it is now, because Anet doesn’t really want to tone it down for HoT sells probably.

Chronomancer is basically Turret Engi V2 in my eyes; in the context that it doesn’t require much skill to be very effective and hold caps for eternity while also being able to kill in outnumbered fights. (low risk = high reward)

I feel the other changes to classes are going into the right direction (except DH, RIP..)

I feel like nerfing Moa was totally uncalled for, I know that. Moa itself as a skill was just fine.

However, something doesn’t add up when x-class uses a tank-amulet and still able to kill targets, even in outnumbered fights.

Note that the opposite is perfectly possible aswel for Chrono; using a DPS amulet and bunk/kills its way through outnumbered fights.

My opinion is based through the whole general pvp community and not just top-tier.

Turret Engi was (almost) never used in top tier but it was owning its way the very same way Chrono is doing now; farming equal skilled players for much less effort.
(proof was leaderboards back then, as 60-70% of the top 100 were Turret Engi; wherefrom 6 players in top 10 were turret engi’s aswel)

If we had a leaderboard right now, you would see Revenants and Chronomancers mostly populating the leaderboard in top 100.

This is Turret Engi V2.

Main mesmers, what are your suggestions to Anet so they can tone Chrono/Mesmer back to other classes’ level?

I’m not a seasoned mesmer player and barely touched Chronomancer as it’s not my playstyle no more with the bunking.

(FYI: yes, there will be Mesmer mains trying to defend their class but I expect most players to be honest, so we can sort it out with Anet asap and go over to Revenant)

Edit; after doing some research I even found that this build or spec doesnt have a counter while all the rest does.. Where’s the rock-paper-scissor philosophy in this case?
Cheers

as an engi main, nothing current is as easy as turret engi was. by a long shot. mesmers do not simply click all the utilities and shatters and then autoattack from range. there is a certain ordering and timing required that turret engi simply did not have.

additionally, the leaderboards from that period of time reflected skill in no way.

insanemaniac.2456:

as an engi main, nothing current is as easy as turret engi was. by a long shot. mesmers do not simply click all the utilities and shatters and then autoattack from range. there is a certain ordering and timing required that turret engi simply did not have.

additionally, the leaderboards from that period of time reflected skill in no way.

The leaderboards were reflecting wins.
Turret Engi mostly won because the general community was being crushed by them.
I did not say Chronomancer was just as easy to play as Turret Engi.
I did say it resembles it by the way its a low risk = high reward and crushing the general community, just as Turret Engi did.

EDIT; your post also doesnt bring any feedback nor an opinion on the matter what should be done with mesmers.

hello,

i would prolly remove the amulet, wich meta chrono is using, becouse of it chronos are tanky and are able to deal very good amount of dmg…, there are many other amus, wich have same amount of condi dmg, but less tankiness…, in my opinion you should be tanky and survive for long, or do dmg and die quick, but not both

there is one thing, that bothers me with chrono and it is the synergy between persistence of memory (shattering a phantasm recharges all phantasm abilities by 2 secs) and echo of memory (shield nr4) (there are also other phantasm related traits wich give an overall advantage to the combo)…, with this trait a chrono can block very often, to often in my opinion…, combined with other invulns chrono is able to deal dps and defend himself, not taking dmg for to long at the same time…, in my opinion a class should be vulnerable, if it is going to dmg others

We already had this thread the other day. The OP in that one got shot down hard too.

Oh, and Chrono can’t hold the point with that build. It’s super easy to pressure him into decap.

Pro tip: Once you’ve decapped, retreat and reset. Come back and decap again. This shuts down the chrono’s effective presence in the match. Killing him is unnecessary.

Ross Biddle.2367:

We already had this thread the other day. The OP in that one got shot down hard too.

Oh, and Chrono can’t hold the point with that build. It’s super easy to pressure him into decap.

Pro tip: Once you’ve decapped, retreat and reset. Come back and decap again. This shuts down the chrono’s effective presence in the match. Killing him is unnecessary.

It can hold the point in vs the general pvp community whilst doing not that much effort.
I’ve been there myself, as thief, focusing in +1’ing a teammate which dies vs 1 mesmer on point. Not only once but basically every match with atleast 1 chronomancer in.

So it just shows, no matter how good the +1’er is (kuddos to those who can actually handle chrono 1v1) something needs to be changed. It’s way to effective and the AoE conditions which are not even meant for the others around target are getting hit too hard by it. It’s both (too?) effective in AoE and single target.

Terrorsquad.4802:

in the context that it doesn’t require much skill to be very effective…

Which is no different from anything else in a low skill casual MMO like GW2 where there is no meaningful aiming required (most stuff is even auto-targeted), no meaningful resource management, passive stuff to play the game for you (even much of the active skills are very passive in nature) and where mouse control / reflexes are barely an issue when compared to games that actually take a lot of skill (well for video games).

If you want high, risk high reward, requiring plenty of skill then you are playing entirely the wrong game, and always have been.

Terrorsquad.4802:

So it just shows, no matter how good the +1’er is (kuddos to those who can actually handle chrono 1v1) something needs to be changed. It’s way to effective and the AoE conditions which are not even meant for the others around target are getting hit too hard by it. It’s both (too?) effective in AoE and single target.

What? This is completely wrong. A decent thief, reaper, or warrior will absolutely wreck a mesmer in a +1. Both the thief and reaper can CC the mesmer out of the Shield4, which leads to a kill. The warrior can chain CCs and put on enough pressure to force the mesmer to retreat.

The only thing you have to be aware of is making sure you don’t waste your +1 burst on a dodge or evade, which is 100% up to you. (It’s really easy as thief or reaper ’cause you can wait for the mesmer to put up shield and then interrupt + bomb).

ResJudicator.7916:

Terrorsquad.4802:

So it just shows, no matter how good the +1’er is (kuddos to those who can actually handle chrono 1v1) something needs to be changed. It’s way to effective and the AoE conditions which are not even meant for the others around target are getting hit too hard by it. It’s both (too?) effective in AoE and single target.

What? This is completely wrong. A decent thief, reaper, or warrior will absolutely wreck a mesmer in a +1. Both the thief and reaper can CC the mesmer out of the Shield4, which leads to a kill. The warrior can chain CCs and put on enough pressure to force the mesmer to retreat.

The only thing you have to be aware of is making sure you don’t waste your +1 burst on a dodge or evade, which is 100% up to you. (It’s really easy as thief or reaper ’cause you can wait for the mesmer to put up shield and then interrupt + bomb).

Yup. +1ing on a chrono is super easy particularly for those classes. It’s an easy kill and/or easier decap.

If you’re scared of aoe fallout, try a weapon with range. This ain’t rocket science xD

Ross Biddle.2367:

ResJudicator.7916:

Terrorsquad.4802:

So it just shows, no matter how good the +1’er is (kuddos to those who can actually handle chrono 1v1) something needs to be changed. It’s way to effective and the AoE conditions which are not even meant for the others around target are getting hit too hard by it. It’s both (too?) effective in AoE and single target.

What? This is completely wrong. A decent thief, reaper, or warrior will absolutely wreck a mesmer in a +1. Both the thief and reaper can CC the mesmer out of the Shield4, which leads to a kill. The warrior can chain CCs and put on enough pressure to force the mesmer to retreat.

The only thing you have to be aware of is making sure you don’t waste your +1 burst on a dodge or evade, which is 100% up to you. (It’s really easy as thief or reaper ’cause you can wait for the mesmer to put up shield and then interrupt + bomb).

Yup. +1ing on a chrono is super easy particularly for those classes. It’s an easy kill and/or easier decap.

If you’re scared of aoe fallout, try a weapon with range. This ain’t rocket science xD

It’s far from an easy kill with hundreds of blocks/invulns and random dazes chaining eachother. It has too many of those while being effective in dps aswel.

I know you’re a mesmer main but come on man, be honest Chrono is not in line with the rest.
Atleast put effort in giving feedback what should change to bring them more in line.

Ppl here are not on topic… Quite hard for Anet if you’re not giving any feedback.

Chrono & Revs need to be toned down before S3.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Ppl here are not on topic… Quite hard for Anet if you’re not giving any feedback.

Chrono & Revs need to be toned down before S3.

They’re on topic, they just think you’re wrong. That doesn’t mean they’re derailing, it just means this isn’t the echo chamber you thought it would be.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Ross Biddle.2367:

ResJudicator.7916:

Terrorsquad.4802:

So it just shows, no matter how good the +1’er is (kuddos to those who can actually handle chrono 1v1) something needs to be changed. It’s way to effective and the AoE conditions which are not even meant for the others around target are getting hit too hard by it. It’s both (too?) effective in AoE and single target.

What? This is completely wrong. A decent thief, reaper, or warrior will absolutely wreck a mesmer in a +1. Both the thief and reaper can CC the mesmer out of the Shield4, which leads to a kill. The warrior can chain CCs and put on enough pressure to force the mesmer to retreat.

The only thing you have to be aware of is making sure you don’t waste your +1 burst on a dodge or evade, which is 100% up to you. (It’s really easy as thief or reaper ’cause you can wait for the mesmer to put up shield and then interrupt + bomb).

Yup. +1ing on a chrono is super easy particularly for those classes. It’s an easy kill and/or easier decap.

If you’re scared of aoe fallout, try a weapon with range. This ain’t rocket science xD

It’s far from an easy kill with hundreds of blocks/invulns and random dazes chaining eachother. It has too many of those while being effective in dps aswel.

I know you’re a mesmer main but come on man, be honest Chrono is not in line with the rest.
Atleast put effort in giving feedback what should change to bring them more in line.

I wrote a long post on countering Condi Mes as Warrior, with video footage: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Warrior-The-Counter-To-Condi-Mes/first#post6143481. I hope you find it constructive or at least helpful.

And about your comment on how the mesmer has “hundreds of blocks,” I directly addressed that with my earlier post about +1ing as Thief or Necro. Both of those classes can 100% reliably INTERRUPT THE MESMER’S BLOCK. This let’s both the +1’er and his buddy pound on the mesmer.

learn to play OP. Chrono and rev are not that strong and can be countered. They even have a counter between each other. Revenant can’t do kitten against chrono xD

And about your second paragraph. I don’t know what kool aid are you on, but the revenant has been receiving nothing but nerfs ever since HoT launched. Do notice that they take support role in any sort of PvE. Think about it and then reply.

P.S: Even in WvW they play support role. But yeah … jump on the “nerf rev” bandwagon. Why not. It’s easier to cripple a class than to actually learn to play. Look at tempests And warriors.

Oh well, back to overwatch for me, at least people don’t complain about skirmishing classes like the tracer there.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Ross Biddle.2367:

ResJudicator.7916:

Terrorsquad.4802:

So it just shows, no matter how good the +1’er is (kuddos to those who can actually handle chrono 1v1) something needs to be changed. It’s way to effective and the AoE conditions which are not even meant for the others around target are getting hit too hard by it. It’s both (too?) effective in AoE and single target.

What? This is completely wrong. A decent thief, reaper, or warrior will absolutely wreck a mesmer in a +1. Both the thief and reaper can CC the mesmer out of the Shield4, which leads to a kill. The warrior can chain CCs and put on enough pressure to force the mesmer to retreat.

The only thing you have to be aware of is making sure you don’t waste your +1 burst on a dodge or evade, which is 100% up to you. (It’s really easy as thief or reaper ’cause you can wait for the mesmer to put up shield and then interrupt + bomb).

Yup. +1ing on a chrono is super easy particularly for those classes. It’s an easy kill and/or easier decap.

If you’re scared of aoe fallout, try a weapon with range. This ain’t rocket science xD

It’s far from an easy kill with hundreds of blocks/invulns and random dazes chaining eachother. It has too many of those while being effective in dps aswel.

I know you’re a mesmer main but come on man, be honest Chrono is not in line with the rest.
Atleast put effort in giving feedback what should change to bring them more in line.

You got me, I’m a Mesmer main. You want feedback?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Can-Warrior-counter-Meta-Chrono/first#

The first post/chat of its kind across the whole forum. I’d not seen a single question or suggestion, only rampant QQ and nerf calls. Yet here’s your mesmer main who played the class/build on season, saw the weaknesses, and immediately saw the counter. I never claimed it’d be an easy lol-roflstomp. I’m sorry what you’re looking for is a roll over fight vs the chrono on whatever class/build you want to run. The chrono build is strong, it’s genuinely viable (though amidst the pathetic state mesmer is in), but it’s hardly OP. Is there strong synergy of some traits that might need looking into? Sure, maybe, but those are hardly breaking the game in the way people cry on about it. If anything they’re propping up an otherwise pathetic class within the state of the game.

So you want feedback? Pick up a counter class, think about your strategy, learn to play. Play to win. Chrono isnt the safe bet you think it is.

ResJudicator.7916:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Ross Biddle.2367:

ResJudicator.7916:

Terrorsquad.4802:

So it just shows, no matter how good the +1’er is (kuddos to those who can actually handle chrono 1v1) something needs to be changed. It’s way to effective and the AoE conditions which are not even meant for the others around target are getting hit too hard by it. It’s both (too?) effective in AoE and single target.

What? This is completely wrong. A decent thief, reaper, or warrior will absolutely wreck a mesmer in a +1. Both the thief and reaper can CC the mesmer out of the Shield4, which leads to a kill. The warrior can chain CCs and put on enough pressure to force the mesmer to retreat.

The only thing you have to be aware of is making sure you don’t waste your +1 burst on a dodge or evade, which is 100% up to you. (It’s really easy as thief or reaper ’cause you can wait for the mesmer to put up shield and then interrupt + bomb).

Yup. +1ing on a chrono is super easy particularly for those classes. It’s an easy kill and/or easier decap.

If you’re scared of aoe fallout, try a weapon with range. This ain’t rocket science xD

It’s far from an easy kill with hundreds of blocks/invulns and random dazes chaining eachother. It has too many of those while being effective in dps aswel.

I know you’re a mesmer main but come on man, be honest Chrono is not in line with the rest.
Atleast put effort in giving feedback what should change to bring them more in line.

I wrote a long post on countering Condi Mes as Warrior, with video footage: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Warrior-The-Counter-To-Condi-Mes/first#post6143481. I hope you find it constructive or at least helpful.

And about your comment on how the mesmer has “hundreds of blocks,” I directly addressed that with my earlier post about +1ing as Thief or Necro. Both of those classes can 100% reliably INTERRUPT THE MESMER’S BLOCK. This let’s both the +1’er and his buddy pound on the mesmer.

I thank you for linking the video but it’s not really a factor to consider if:
1. the fight was half of the time off-point
2. the condi warr build only shines vs chrono’s but lacks pressure elsewhere + mobility
3. fighting a mesmer who (with all due respect) double dodges nothing, wasting his dodges (I know u need to dodge for clones but that wasn’t meant for clones since he got CD on f-skills)

I did got close killing chrono’s multiple time in 1v1 on point with a DPS warrior, but same problem here resides; dps warrior won’t really be a thing in coming meta.

Terrorsquad.4802:

ResJudicator.7916:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Ross Biddle.2367:

ResJudicator.7916:

Terrorsquad.4802:

So it just shows, no matter how good the +1’er is (kuddos to those who can actually handle chrono 1v1) something needs to be changed. It’s way to effective and the AoE conditions which are not even meant for the others around target are getting hit too hard by it. It’s both (too?) effective in AoE and single target.

What? This is completely wrong. A decent thief, reaper, or warrior will absolutely wreck a mesmer in a +1. Both the thief and reaper can CC the mesmer out of the Shield4, which leads to a kill. The warrior can chain CCs and put on enough pressure to force the mesmer to retreat.

The only thing you have to be aware of is making sure you don’t waste your +1 burst on a dodge or evade, which is 100% up to you. (It’s really easy as thief or reaper ’cause you can wait for the mesmer to put up shield and then interrupt + bomb).

Yup. +1ing on a chrono is super easy particularly for those classes. It’s an easy kill and/or easier decap.

If you’re scared of aoe fallout, try a weapon with range. This ain’t rocket science xD

It’s far from an easy kill with hundreds of blocks/invulns and random dazes chaining eachother. It has too many of those while being effective in dps aswel.

I know you’re a mesmer main but come on man, be honest Chrono is not in line with the rest.
Atleast put effort in giving feedback what should change to bring them more in line.

I wrote a long post on countering Condi Mes as Warrior, with video footage: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Warrior-The-Counter-To-Condi-Mes/first#post6143481. I hope you find it constructive or at least helpful.

And about your comment on how the mesmer has “hundreds of blocks,” I directly addressed that with my earlier post about +1ing as Thief or Necro. Both of those classes can 100% reliably INTERRUPT THE MESMER’S BLOCK. This let’s both the +1’er and his buddy pound on the mesmer.

I thank you for linking the video but it’s not really a factor to consider if:
1. the fight was half of the time off-point
2. the condi warr build only shines vs chrono’s but lacks pressure elsewhere + mobility
3. fighting a mesmer who (with all due respect) double dodges nothing, wasting his dodges (I know u need to dodge for clones but that wasn’t meant for clones since he got CD on f-skills)

I did got close killing chrono’s multiple time in 1v1 on point with a DPS warrior, but same problem here resides; dps warrior won’t really be a thing in coming meta.

1. If you notice, the only reason the fight went off-point is because the mesmer kept having to disengage. I immediately ran onto the point each fight and would have neuted it within a few seconds of the fight.

If the mesmer tries to contest the point, then the fight is entirely in the warrior’s favor. The warrior’s melee-range pressure is way higher and on lower CDs.

2. Condi warrior pressure is crazy high in other fights — much higher than mesmer in teamfights. Condi war can spike harder and more frequently due to the low cooldowns on headbutt + zerker mode + f1’s. The condi war also has the highest access to CCs of any meta build — you can singlehandedly prevent any ele in the fight from using overloads or Wash The Pain Away.

You’re right about Condi War having lower mobility, but it’s not terrible — Condi War has perma 25% movespeed and 2 low-CD dashes (Shield 4 on 16s, Headbutt on 20s).

3. Any criticism you have of the mesmer player completely contradicts your original post, which was that mesmer is an autopilot class. You can’t say that mesmer is faceroll easy for anyone to dominate with, and then come back later and say that such and such mesmer only lost because he missed some dodges. If he played the fight perfectly, then I wouldn’t have deserved to win. Warrior isn’t autopilot either.

I also don’t agree with your assessment about the fight. Again, the fighting only moves off-point when the mesmer has to disengage (or when I get moa’d). The mesmer definitely wasted some dodges, but so did I. He’s still better than most of the mesmers you’ll run into in Unranked, and better than most of the ones in Ranked.

ResJudicator.7916:

Terrorsquad.4802:

ResJudicator.7916:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Ross Biddle.2367:

ResJudicator.7916:

Terrorsquad.4802:

So it just shows, no matter how good the +1’er is (kuddos to those who can actually handle chrono 1v1) something needs to be changed. It’s way to effective and the AoE conditions which are not even meant for the others around target are getting hit too hard by it. It’s both (too?) effective in AoE and single target.

What? This is completely wrong. A decent thief, reaper, or warrior will absolutely wreck a mesmer in a +1. Both the thief and reaper can CC the mesmer out of the Shield4, which leads to a kill. The warrior can chain CCs and put on enough pressure to force the mesmer to retreat.

The only thing you have to be aware of is making sure you don’t waste your +1 burst on a dodge or evade, which is 100% up to you. (It’s really easy as thief or reaper ’cause you can wait for the mesmer to put up shield and then interrupt + bomb).

Yup. +1ing on a chrono is super easy particularly for those classes. It’s an easy kill and/or easier decap.

If you’re scared of aoe fallout, try a weapon with range. This ain’t rocket science xD

It’s far from an easy kill with hundreds of blocks/invulns and random dazes chaining eachother. It has too many of those while being effective in dps aswel.

I know you’re a mesmer main but come on man, be honest Chrono is not in line with the rest.
Atleast put effort in giving feedback what should change to bring them more in line.

I wrote a long post on countering Condi Mes as Warrior, with video footage: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Warrior-The-Counter-To-Condi-Mes/first#post6143481. I hope you find it constructive or at least helpful.

And about your comment on how the mesmer has “hundreds of blocks,” I directly addressed that with my earlier post about +1ing as Thief or Necro. Both of those classes can 100% reliably INTERRUPT THE MESMER’S BLOCK. This let’s both the +1’er and his buddy pound on the mesmer.

I thank you for linking the video but it’s not really a factor to consider if:
1. the fight was half of the time off-point
2. the condi warr build only shines vs chrono’s but lacks pressure elsewhere + mobility
3. fighting a mesmer who (with all due respect) double dodges nothing, wasting his dodges (I know u need to dodge for clones but that wasn’t meant for clones since he got CD on f-skills)

I did got close killing chrono’s multiple time in 1v1 on point with a DPS warrior, but same problem here resides; dps warrior won’t really be a thing in coming meta.

1. If you notice, the only reason the fight went off-point is because the mesmer kept having to disengage. I immediately ran onto the point each fight and would have neuted it within a few seconds of the fight.

If the mesmer tries to contest the point, then the fight is entirely in the warrior’s favor. The warrior’s melee-range pressure is way higher and on lower CDs.

2. Condi warrior pressure is crazy high in other fights — much higher than mesmer in teamfights. Condi war can spike harder and more frequently due to the low cooldowns on headbutt + zerker mode + f1’s. The condi war also has the highest access to CCs of any meta build — you can singlehandedly prevent any ele in the fight from using overloads or Wash The Pain Away.

You’re right about Condi War having lower mobility, but it’s not terrible — Condi War has perma 25% movespeed and 2 low-CD dashes (Shield 4 on 16s, Headbutt on 20s).

3. Any criticism you have of the mesmer player completely contradicts your original post, which was that mesmer is an autopilot class. You can’t say that mesmer is faceroll easy for anyone to dominate with, and then come back later and say that such and such mesmer only lost because he missed some dodges. If he played the fight perfectly, then I wouldn’t have deserved to win. Warrior isn’t autopilot either.

I also don’t agree with your assessment about the fight. Again, the fighting only moves off-point when the mesmer has to disengage (or when I get moa’d). The mesmer definitely wasted some dodges, but so did I. He’s still better than most of the mesmers you’ll run into in Unranked, and better than most of the ones in Ranked.

2. Condi warrior is very easy to take down, I would even say the easiest to pick out in teamfights. Im 90% certain we wont see it in the coming meta.
Suggesting to use your CC’s as mobility is not the way to go, certainly if you get jumped on.
3. Dodging wrong has nothing to with builds whatsoever, so your argument is invalid.
Afaik, every class can dodge. Let alone builds.
Basically any build made up just to counter a mesmer can be used to take it out. But it’s useless if it doesn’t cut to the meta/getting farmed by everything else.

Terrorsquad.4802:

ResJudicator.7916:

Terrorsquad.4802:

ResJudicator.7916:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Ross Biddle.2367:

ResJudicator.7916:

Terrorsquad.4802:

So it just shows, no matter how good the +1’er is (kuddos to those who can actually handle chrono 1v1) something needs to be changed. It’s way to effective and the AoE conditions which are not even meant for the others around target are getting hit too hard by it. It’s both (too?) effective in AoE and single target.

What? This is completely wrong. A decent thief, reaper, or warrior will absolutely wreck a mesmer in a +1. Both the thief and reaper can CC the mesmer out of the Shield4, which leads to a kill. The warrior can chain CCs and put on enough pressure to force the mesmer to retreat.

The only thing you have to be aware of is making sure you don’t waste your +1 burst on a dodge or evade, which is 100% up to you. (It’s really easy as thief or reaper ’cause you can wait for the mesmer to put up shield and then interrupt + bomb).

Yup. +1ing on a chrono is super easy particularly for those classes. It’s an easy kill and/or easier decap.

If you’re scared of aoe fallout, try a weapon with range. This ain’t rocket science xD

It’s far from an easy kill with hundreds of blocks/invulns and random dazes chaining eachother. It has too many of those while being effective in dps aswel.

I know you’re a mesmer main but come on man, be honest Chrono is not in line with the rest.
Atleast put effort in giving feedback what should change to bring them more in line.

I wrote a long post on countering Condi Mes as Warrior, with video footage: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Warrior-The-Counter-To-Condi-Mes/first#post6143481. I hope you find it constructive or at least helpful.

And about your comment on how the mesmer has “hundreds of blocks,” I directly addressed that with my earlier post about +1ing as Thief or Necro. Both of those classes can 100% reliably INTERRUPT THE MESMER’S BLOCK. This let’s both the +1’er and his buddy pound on the mesmer.

I thank you for linking the video but it’s not really a factor to consider if:
1. the fight was half of the time off-point
2. the condi warr build only shines vs chrono’s but lacks pressure elsewhere + mobility
3. fighting a mesmer who (with all due respect) double dodges nothing, wasting his dodges (I know u need to dodge for clones but that wasn’t meant for clones since he got CD on f-skills)

I did got close killing chrono’s multiple time in 1v1 on point with a DPS warrior, but same problem here resides; dps warrior won’t really be a thing in coming meta.

1. If you notice, the only reason the fight went off-point is because the mesmer kept having to disengage. I immediately ran onto the point each fight and would have neuted it within a few seconds of the fight.

If the mesmer tries to contest the point, then the fight is entirely in the warrior’s favor. The warrior’s melee-range pressure is way higher and on lower CDs.

2. Condi warrior pressure is crazy high in other fights — much higher than mesmer in teamfights. Condi war can spike harder and more frequently due to the low cooldowns on headbutt + zerker mode + f1’s. The condi war also has the highest access to CCs of any meta build — you can singlehandedly prevent any ele in the fight from using overloads or Wash The Pain Away.

You’re right about Condi War having lower mobility, but it’s not terrible — Condi War has perma 25% movespeed and 2 low-CD dashes (Shield 4 on 16s, Headbutt on 20s).

3. Any criticism you have of the mesmer player completely contradicts your original post, which was that mesmer is an autopilot class. You can’t say that mesmer is faceroll easy for anyone to dominate with, and then come back later and say that such and such mesmer only lost because he missed some dodges. If he played the fight perfectly, then I wouldn’t have deserved to win. Warrior isn’t autopilot either.

I also don’t agree with your assessment about the fight. Again, the fighting only moves off-point when the mesmer has to disengage (or when I get moa’d). The mesmer definitely wasted some dodges, but so did I. He’s still better than most of the mesmers you’ll run into in Unranked, and better than most of the ones in Ranked.

2. Condi warrior is very easy to take down, I would even say the easiest to pick out in teamfights. Im 90% certain we wont see it in the coming meta.
Suggesting to use your CC’s as mobility is not the way to go, certainly if you get jumped on.
3. Dodging wrong has nothing to with builds whatsoever, so your argument is invalid.
Afaik, every class can dodge. Let alone builds.
Basically any build made up just to counter a mesmer can be used to take it out. But it’s useless if it doesn’t cut to the meta/getting farmed by everything else.

Last post on this thread, since I think I’ve made my point:

2. Most meta builds fold under focus fire. Condi war is relatively tanky due to its mercenary amulet, decent block uptime, ridiculously high heal-per-second, very high condi cleanse, high resistance uptime, and double endure pain. Its survivability scales well with team support: getting protection from the ele synergizes well with the warrior’s high healing and health, getting just 5s of peels from teammates translates into 5k more health from your 1k health-per-second regen.

In any event, I don’t expect condi war to be a teamfighter. It’s better for +1ing and fighting on side nodes. Anastasis, who’s played in the top teams and is probably one of the top warriors, thinks that condi war will be meta (His Post).

Using your CC’s as mobility is not a huge deal. They’re on ridiculously low cooldowns. It’s no different from mesmer using blink (his only stunbreak) as mobility, or phase retreat (his best kiting skill and a source of clones). If mesmer burns blink + phase retreat for mobility and then gets jumped on, he’s in a worse position than a warrior who’s used shield4 and headbutt.

3. I think you may have missed my point here. You are claiming that Condi Mes is “Turret Engie v2.0,” meaning that the build is brain-dead easy and anyone can win with it no matter how bad they are. In order for this statement to be true, the player running Condi Mes shouldn’t need to worry about saving his dodges and timing them for key skills. You’ve contradicted your own point by arguing that the mesmer in my video only lost because he wasted dodges. That means the build isn’t autopilot like you claimed.

Yes, every build has access to dodge. But not every build is as reliant on dodging. Generally speaking, the builds people think of as more “high skilled” are more reliant on smart, active dodging. The builds people think of as “low skilled” allow you to facetank and just dodge randomly (or not at all).

For example, thief (which I’d say is hard to play well), requires very good dodging — one missed dodge usually means you die. Power shatter mesmer is the same.

As a counter-example, turret engie (which was super easy to play), required very little dodging. If you eat a CC chain because you didn’t dodge as turret engie, your turrets would still be outputting DPS. On top of that, you’d passively get a protection proc plus an additional 25% damage reduction from traits everytime you ate a CC.

You’re saying the condi mes in my video lost solely because he didn’t use his dodges well enough. Your own arguments push the mesmer out of the “Turret Engie” spectrum.

Finally, I’m not sure why you think condi warrior gets “farmed.” It has a favorable matchup against rev, druid, and scrapper. Reapers are also easy if they try to contest the point.

“Main mesmers, what are your suggestions to Anet so they can tone Chrono/Mesmer back to other classes’ level?”

Look, i think every pure, old school mesmer players just wants power shatter to be viable. It’s what the mesmer was made to do. It’s the most fun, highest skill capped, and utilises what is best about mesmer; mobility, burst, dictation of games via +1ing,

I’m fed up of this stupid condi bunker bull crap we are forced into.

Right now a mesmer is only good for moa + portal. And because of the meta, the build we are forced to play in order to carry out said moas + portals, is the one with the most survivability, and sustain; condi chrono.

I miss the old days where you were no 1 target because people knew a good power shatter mesmer would destroy anyone, anywhere on the map he wanted, if left to free cast.

Liam McColgan.7689:

“Main mesmers, what are your suggestions to Anet so they can tone Chrono/Mesmer back to other classes’ level?”

Look, i think every pure, old school mesmer players just wants power shatter to be viable. It’s what the mesmer was made to do. It’s the most fun, highest skill capped, and utilises what is best about mesmer; mobility, burst, dictation of games via +1ing,

I’m fed up of this stupid condi bunker bull crap we are forced into.

Right now a mesmer is only good for moa + portal. And because of the meta, the build we are forced to play in order to carry out said moas + portals, is the one with the most survivability, and sustain; condi chrono.

I miss the old days where you were no 1 target because people knew a good power shatter mesmer would destroy anyone, anywhere on the map he wanted, if left to free cast.

I certainly can’t agree more; I started playing mesmer 2 years ago because I like playing DPS. Shatter Mesmer was one of the most fun to play, Staff / GS.. Oh god, those were the days..

The only issue though is that it was easy to be countered by thief but I think with current Chrono line it might actually not be free food if they would tweak some traits/skills so Chrono’s can actually go power shatter.

I have noticed Chrono with Marauder is working fine but ofc not as good as the condi bunker one

Terrorsquad.4802:

Liam McColgan.7689:

“Main mesmers, what are your suggestions to Anet so they can tone Chrono/Mesmer back to other classes’ level?”

Look, i think every pure, old school mesmer players just wants power shatter to be viable. It’s what the mesmer was made to do. It’s the most fun, highest skill capped, and utilises what is best about mesmer; mobility, burst, dictation of games via +1ing,

I’m fed up of this stupid condi bunker bull crap we are forced into.

Right now a mesmer is only good for moa + portal. And because of the meta, the build we are forced to play in order to carry out said moas + portals, is the one with the most survivability, and sustain; condi chrono.

I miss the old days where you were no 1 target because people knew a good power shatter mesmer would destroy anyone, anywhere on the map he wanted, if left to free cast.

I certainly can’t agree more; I started playing mesmer 2 years ago because I like playing DPS. Shatter Mesmer was one of the most fun to play, Staff / GS.. Oh god, those were the days..

The only issue though is that it was easy to be countered by thief but I think with current Chrono line it might actually not be free food if they would tweak some traits/skills so Chrono’s can actually go power shatter.

I have noticed Chrono with Marauder is working fine but ofc not as good as the condi bunker one

Adressing Liam: Not every pure old school mesmer wants power shatter back, that is one hasty generalization m8. Yeah it’d be great if it were to be more viable in this current meta, viable diversity is always great, but it is already viable —→ https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Video-Legend-with-F2P-Mesmer

Secondly, nobody is forcing you to use condi, I honestly don’t get this sentiment in all anti-condi posts/threads. Given that you’re not born in a country which encroaches on personal rights and freedoms, all men are born with the freedom of choice. You want to play shatter? Go play it, using the inspiration traitline you have enough cleanse to face the meta if you’re playing with a brain.

Thirdly, mesmers were always “forced” to use portal in higher end play, do I really need to link you old school builds to freshen up your mind? Exhibit A: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mesmer_-_Double_Ranged_Shatter
Exhibit B: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mesmer_-_Traditional_Shatter
Exhibit C: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mesmer_-_Condition_Clone_Death

Adressing Terrorsquad: Now his true motives appear, he wants his ‘fun’ build back, at the costs of others. Gs/Staff was nerfed when mirror blade stopped bouncing and mantras stopped recharging, that had nothing to do with chrono. Mesmer in itself has quite a few issues that need to be adressed and have been mentioned since launch, including clone generation, absurd cooldowns, broken class mechanics. Chrono gives back to the mesmer with by adressing this but is and will always be a band aid until these issues are resolved. Chrono is nowhere near the turret engi, signet of illusions might give a 50% health bonus, but remember that not every mesmer is using the same build. Some are aware of free choice. And you speaking on behalf of the pvp community is a joke. Some pvp’ers welcome condi and the builds it birthed other’s despise it. But one thing is sure power = not skill. Nor is condi, skill comes from a higher awareness, that some seem to be lacking when they want to adress every situation using the same build. Learn to adapt, learn to play. Let the condi meta rage until a balance has be found in the meantime how about some pve where power is still king

It’s kind of funny to me to read these whine festivals about condi chrono, when while running power shatter I’ve often been suggested by team mates to go condition instead.

I trust that when your team has a condition chrono, you suggest to them they go power shatter instead? Or is this the old case of being fine with it when your team has one?

msalakka.4653:

It’s kind of funny to me to read these whine festivals about condi chrono, when while running power shatter I’ve often been suggested by team mates to go condition instead.

I trust that when your team has a condition chrono, you suggest to them they go power shatter instead? Or is this the old case of being fine with it when your team has one?

Preach it!

Crowd control skills.

Slow down…
Focus…
Use them on the Mesmer…

Funny that Turret Engi keeps being brought up here. Because this recent banter about Mesmer is the exact same thing as the old banter about Turret Engis.

People who used to complain about Turret Engi just simply weren’t slowing down enough to stop and think “ok, how am I going to approach this?” If they did, they’d have realized that Turret Engineer was a lot easier to actually kill than a good Cele/Rifle Engineer. Also, the AI on turrets was easy to read, easy to trick and very easy to avoid.

People now complaining about Mesmer are experiencing a similar issue. They just came from a bunker meta where they were allowed to roll around on a point with great sustain while splashing AoE damage and boons all over the place. This was a forgiving meta for players who never learned to 1v1 focus. Well the bunker meta is gone now and these players are experiencing an issue where they aren’t SLOWING DOWN and considering what they have to do to beat the Mesmer:

• The Mesmer is better at rolling around on point and not dying while spamming damage, than you are. Stop trying to fight him that way.
• The Mesmer is heavily punished when his skills go on cool down such to the point that they usually have to bail when it happens.
• Play defensively and save your bursts for when the Mesmer’s cool downs are apparent.
• Time your bursts and CCs during that vulnerable moment. Mesmers die fast when caught. They are deceiving you by “looking like they are winning” with those initial skills before it all goes on cool down.

I main an engineer but i play also mesmer. I did not like turrets but i tried it. In my opinion they are on 2 different levels . Turrets were really dumb to use. Condition Chrono is really strong now , ok , but it is harder to use than turrets. Turrets kill for you. With mesmer you have , if you want to have damage, to use the shatter skill at the right time in the right position. It does not require a PHD, ok , but it requires much more skill that old turret engineer

hi Terrorsquad. i play with you and bit with your guild mates

as mesmer (main) and thief (used to be main due to ping issue and borness) and necro main i will try to give some feedback on your feeling and community feeling

first almost any qq i read, and the ones who know me knows i always trying to understand and test and see if there is any truth, basically comes from ppl who dont even try to understand the mesmer class.
i for once used to be like that so i practice and duel so many ppl until i can know by heart what skill they gonna use and when. yes its hard and i still die a lot.
i play condi mesmer from day1 before chrono and hot and whats so ever.

i can agree that at the moment it seems that condimes is very strong in this meta.
why i say it seems ?
because condi mesmer has always been strong in 1v1 (wvw day and pvp)
the meta has rarely been 1v1 playstyle but it became like this the more power creep come to its playstyle. (when bunker and support fell short)
thus i think nothing should be changes not even the moa. as you can see anet nerf moa not because its strong skill rather it became strong and more popular with cs.
mesmer is the only class who always had 1 build to play with. from power build when condi was not useful with all the support around. with bunker when power got nerf hard. and now with condi when bunker got nerf.

as the power creep got more absurd ppl start taking more risk (like if you remember power mesmer hardly use any condi cleanse) more risk i mean less condi cleanse. so ppl took the opportunity and use condi build.

also regarding the easiness of the build. condi mesmer is easy if you play it right. yes i can kill a thief if he’s eager to kill me. i will kill ele if i bait his water attunment. there is a lot to learn. i can see condi mesmer and know his lvl by the way he approach to fight.

most mesmer just spamm. good one bait, feel the rhythm of the enemy and count cd’s

also ppl find it more easy to QQ rather to think what can counter condi mesmer

so ppl assume chrono trait line is to be blame. in fact its bad trait line. the only thing it gives really are. CS so i can use skills twice. cp+ir which replace DE so now i can play without dueling trait line.

solutions

1. the community should try to come up with counter. if no counter to be found than you can say OP.
warrior is counter, good guard is counter, ranger is counter. i even publish bunkermes return just to handle the condi mesmer meta and it works.
2. anet should find a way to make 3 builds diversity for each class.
so power mesmer, bunker mesmer should have comeback. power mesmer needs more dmg to their AA and F2. bunker mesmer need more support with resistance and bit healing to allies. and condi is good as it is.

warrior as example has now two builds. power and condi with the same concept almost just because they have better sustain with healing and resistance.

i can continue. but if there will be more diversity so now more 1 meta comp rather 3. you will see more counter builds and class and than the leader board will be more versatile

insanemaniac.2456:

as an engi main, nothing current is as easy as turret engi was. by a long shot. mesmers do not simply click all the utilities and shatters and then autoattack from range. there is a certain ordering and timing required that turret engi simply did not have.

additionally, the leaderboards from that period of time reflected skill in no way.

Trap guardian says hi

style.6173:

insanemaniac.2456:

as an engi main, nothing current is as easy as turret engi was. by a long shot. mesmers do not simply click all the utilities and shatters and then autoattack from range. there is a certain ordering and timing required that turret engi simply did not have.

additionally, the leaderboards from that period of time reflected skill in no way.

Trap guardian says hi

People have an easier time beating trap guardian though… it’s actually some what laughable. Turret Engi technically had the same effectiveness in Tournaments, players simply out rotated them.

Full trap Guardian on the other hand.. pretty sure Karl stood around with a bucket to collect tears. Incomparable.