Guild Wars 2

Ok, I’ve had it with all the hate…so I’m gonna address some of the accusations being throw around against eles and hope this helps people appreciate were not monsters but players.

On this past weeks I’ve been playing conquest and dueling against pretty much every class out there, my skill level is normal (not an ubber player, so i can represent every elementalist jumping on the hype train, and so you know ele is my main since forever). In this weeks I’ve been insulted, accused of cheating, received rude comments due to asking for practice vs experienced players (God forgive u ask to practice defensive moves while playing D/D)..and even so I came here so I can at least try to separate fact from fiction:

1) Eles are OP

Yes we are, at this moment we have (always had great sustain) and we also manage to deal tons of damage (burning) and also we shine in team fights and can drag fights on points as we see fit.

2) Burning damage is OP on ele

Yes it is, would love to see it reduced (less burn stacks so we don’t destroy condition based builds), we shouldn’t have so much dps as an attrition class

3)Eles have too many sustain

STOP! NO just no…this game is already fast and furious enough…we need some classes to be able to be on point and not melt in 10 seconds flat to a spike…we and guardian bunkers are needed and have a role to play…what we shouldn’t have is sustain and DPS.

4)Eles require no skill, u just need to learn to learn combos and there u go

Are u kidding me???? u need to keep track of cooldowns know when and where not to skip rotations to avoid/deal a spike and return to optimal rotation, u need to manage the smallest health pool of the game knowing that when you’re spiked u have about 10 seconds to react or your dead…I don’t ask for u guys to love eles but this is just wonkers…until the latest balance patch we were considered one of the hardest classes to play and no one contested this…balance patch hits and we no longer take skill…righttttttt

5)PU mesmers and stealth regen thiefs that say that healing on ele is cheesy….

Come on guys…seriously? Seems to me there’s no difference in outhealing while kitting or disappearing and regen health as you need thus resetting the fight.

6)D/D eles win every duel…

Not true at all but we can drag fights so reinforcement come and thus turn a 1vs1 into a team fight…that is our ROLE. Several matchups are pretty bad for us:

PU mesmers
Shatter mesmers
Berzerker thiefs
Berzerker warriors
Condition and celestial necros

If they know what they are doing they are able to out pressure the ele forcing us to play for time, eventually in a 1 vs 1 duel they will gain the upper hand.

7) Warriors on duels that complain when an ele ports to safety in a duel

Ok…I can see where u come from If i stand there in your face u can kill me
faster…but…ermmm hope you don’t take this the wrong way, against you guys we need to kite…and hit when there’s no pressure on us. That is kinda the standard, mesmers do it, thiefs do it…why all the hate when an ele does it too? I also have an warrior and when i face an enemy that doesn’t port and kite i get annoyed because i know that isn’t a good duel, and if I’m dueling i want to fight good players so i can learn.

Cheers and have fun

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Come on guys…seriously? Seems to me there’s no difference in outhealing while kitting or disappearing and regen health as you need thus resetting the fight.

The vast majority of good thieves’ players would LOVE to be able to play a non-stealth build without the certainty of being outpowered (not outplayed, mind you) by any other decent+ build.

Acrobatics and Feline Grace salute you.

Talyn Sneider.1825:

…we and guardian bunkers are needed and have a role to play…what we shouldn’t have is sustain and DPS.

I find it hilarious that Cele D/D Ele’s sustains are comparable to a Bunker Guardian, or any bunker class for that matter. The Guard is using a tank amulet, two sustain trees (0 dmg trees mind you) and is 100% spec’d to be a Bunker class.

The Elementalists uses 1 damage tree, 1 sustain tree and 1 utility tree that’s arguably the same as Virtues for Guardians. Fun Fact: Ele’s will be on the same tier as everyone else if they used Marauders.

Pressuring the Ele off point for 5 seconds is not a soft counter. The only class in the game that could potentially soft counter the Ele is a Cele Necro and/or a Mesmer.

We know Eles have a high skill cap. We know that a Berserker/Rampaging Warrior can appear out of know where and down any unaware class. A Fair matchup is a Mesmer and Cele Necro. These do not mean that the Ele is justifiable especially when your two points is based on the average pub player and not players who actually knows how to play the class efficiently.

Look back at your 1), 2) and 3) points. Ele’s don’t need a big nerf, they just need some minor adjustments. These adjustments are arguably just their burns but others may disagree.

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Ok, I’ve had it with all the hate…so I’m gonna address some of the accusations being throw around against eles and hope this helps people appreciate were not monsters but players.

On this past weeks I’ve been playing conquest and dueling against pretty much every class out there, my skill level is normal (not an ubber player, so i can represent every elementalist jumping on the hype train, and so you know ele is my main since forever). In this weeks I’ve been insulted, accused of cheating, received rude comments due to asking for practice vs experienced players (God forgive u ask to practice defensive moves while playing D/D)..and even so I came here so I can at least try to separate fact from fiction:

1) Eles are OP

Yes we are, at this moment we have (always had great sustain) and we also manage to deal tons of damage (burning) and also we shine in team fights and can drag fights on points as we see fit.

2) Burning damage is OP on ele

Yes it is, would love to see it reduced (less burn stacks so we don’t destroy condition based builds), we shouldn’t have so much dps as an attrition class

3)Eles have too many sustain

STOP! NO just no…this game is already fast and furious enough…we need some classes to be able to be on point and not melt in 10 seconds flat to a spike…we and guardian bunkers are needed and have a role to play…what we shouldn’t have is sustain and DPS.

4)Eles require no skill, u just need to learn to learn combos and there u go

Are u kidding me???? u need to keep track of cooldowns know when and where not to skip rotations to avoid/deal a spike and return to optimal rotation, u need to manage the smallest health pool of the game knowing that when you’re spiked u have about 10 seconds to react or your dead…I don’t ask for u guys to love eles but this is just wonkers…until the latest balance patch we were considered one of the hardest classes to play and no one contested this…balance patch hits and we no longer take skill…righttttttt

5)PU mesmers and stealth regen thiefs that say that healing on ele is cheesy….

Come on guys…seriously? Seems to me there’s no difference in outhealing while kitting or disappearing and regen health as you need thus resetting the fight.

6)D/D eles win every duel…

Not true at all but we can drag fights so reinforcement come and thus turn a 1vs1 into a team fight…that is our ROLE. Several matchups are pretty bad for us:

PU mesmers
Shatter mesmers
Berzerker thiefs
Berzerker warriors
Condition and celestial necros

If they know what they are doing they are able to out pressure the ele forcing us to play for time, eventually in a 1 vs 1 duel they will gain the upper hand.

7) Warriors on duels that complain when an ele ports to safety in a duel

Ok…I can see where u come from If i stand there in your face u can kill me
faster…but…ermmm hope you don’t take this the wrong way, against you guys we need to kite…and hit when there’s no pressure on us. That is kinda the standard, mesmers do it, thiefs do it…why all the hate when an ele does it too? I also have an warrior and when i face an enemy that doesn’t port and kite i get annoyed because i know that isn’t a good duel, and if I’m dueling i want to fight good players so i can learn.

Cheers and have fun

The moment you listed as berserker thieves as a counter to ele was the moment you lost your credibility as a good ele considering you hard counter them.

Saiyan.1704:

Talyn Sneider.1825:

…we and guardian bunkers are needed and have a role to play…what we shouldn’t have is sustain and DPS.

I find it hilarious that Cele D/D Ele’s sustains are comparable to a Bunker Guardian, or any bunker class for that matter. The Guard is using a tank amulet, two sustain trees (0 dmg trees mind you) and is 100% spec’d to be a Bunker class.

The Elementalists uses 1 damage tree, 1 sustain tree and 1 utility tree that’s arguably the same as Virtues for Guardians. Fun Fact: Ele’s will be on the same tier as everyone else if they used Marauders.

Pressuring the Ele off point for 5 seconds is not a soft counter. The only class in the game that could potentially soft counter the Ele is a Cele Necro and/or a Mesmer.

We know Eles have a high skill cap. We know that a Berserker/Raging Warrior can appear out of know where and down any unaware class. A Fair matchup is a Mesmer and Cele Necro. These do not mean that the Ele is justifiable especially when our two points is based on the average pub player and not players who actually knows how to play the class efficiently.

Look back at your 1), 2) and 3) points. Ele’s don’t need a big nerf, they just need some minor adjustments. These adjustments are arguably just their burns but others may disagree.

not disagreeing with you, just sayin

The ele also lacks any real innate survivability. Without that utility tree, we wouldn’t have much, if any, Protection and would lose out on a decent Heal and cleanse every 10s along with decent Vigor.

Also worth mentioning that Guardians can comfortably play Burst; Elementalists can’t. We basically have a “middle-ground” build that has crazy sustain(as I expect, since almost every choice is made for survival) and Burning which is most of our damage while playing that build. Unfortunately, the Ele can’t really play much else without getting outclassed.

Lettuce.2945:

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Ok, I’ve had it with all the hate…so I’m gonna address some of the accusations being throw around against eles and hope this helps people appreciate were not monsters but players.

On this past weeks I’ve been playing conquest and dueling against pretty much every class out there, my skill level is normal (not an ubber player, so i can represent every elementalist jumping on the hype train, and so you know ele is my main since forever). In this weeks I’ve been insulted, accused of cheating, received rude comments due to asking for practice vs experienced players (God forgive u ask to practice defensive moves while playing D/D)..and even so I came here so I can at least try to separate fact from fiction:

1) Eles are OP

Yes we are, at this moment we have (always had great sustain) and we also manage to deal tons of damage (burning) and also we shine in team fights and can drag fights on points as we see fit.

2) Burning damage is OP on ele

Yes it is, would love to see it reduced (less burn stacks so we don’t destroy condition based builds), we shouldn’t have so much dps as an attrition class

3)Eles have too many sustain

STOP! NO just no…this game is already fast and furious enough…we need some classes to be able to be on point and not melt in 10 seconds flat to a spike…we and guardian bunkers are needed and have a role to play…what we shouldn’t have is sustain and DPS.

4)Eles require no skill, u just need to learn to learn combos and there u go

Are u kidding me???? u need to keep track of cooldowns know when and where not to skip rotations to avoid/deal a spike and return to optimal rotation, u need to manage the smallest health pool of the game knowing that when you’re spiked u have about 10 seconds to react or your dead…I don’t ask for u guys to love eles but this is just wonkers…until the latest balance patch we were considered one of the hardest classes to play and no one contested this…balance patch hits and we no longer take skill…righttttttt

5)PU mesmers and stealth regen thiefs that say that healing on ele is cheesy….

Come on guys…seriously? Seems to me there’s no difference in outhealing while kitting or disappearing and regen health as you need thus resetting the fight.

6)D/D eles win every duel…

Not true at all but we can drag fights so reinforcement come and thus turn a 1vs1 into a team fight…that is our ROLE. Several matchups are pretty bad for us:

PU mesmers
Shatter mesmers
Berzerker thiefs
Berzerker warriors
Condition and celestial necros

If they know what they are doing they are able to out pressure the ele forcing us to play for time, eventually in a 1 vs 1 duel they will gain the upper hand.

7) Warriors on duels that complain when an ele ports to safety in a duel

Ok…I can see where u come from If i stand there in your face u can kill me
faster…but…ermmm hope you don’t take this the wrong way, against you guys we need to kite…and hit when there’s no pressure on us. That is kinda the standard, mesmers do it, thiefs do it…why all the hate when an ele does it too? I also have an warrior and when i face an enemy that doesn’t port and kite i get annoyed because i know that isn’t a good duel, and if I’m dueling i want to fight good players so i can learn.

Cheers and have fun

The moment you listed as berserker thieves as a counter to ele was the moment you lost your credibility as a good ele considering you hard counter them.

You beat me to it… was about to say the same thing. I’ve seen eles 1v2 thieves and come out unscathed.

Lettuce.2945:

The moment you listed as berserker thieves as a counter to ele was the moment you lost your credibility as a good ele considering you hard counter them.

Wasn’t this you as an ele dueling Caed on a zerker thief? I think he won every fight. This was all pre-specialization patch, when ele sustain was higher but burns were less potent.

https://youtu.be/C_dxpfLm1LU?t=5040

Lettuce.2945:

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Ok, I’ve had it with all the hate…so I’m gonna address some of the accusations being throw around against eles and hope this helps people appreciate were not monsters but players.

On this past weeks I’ve been playing conquest and dueling against pretty much every class out there, my skill level is normal (not an ubber player, so i can represent every elementalist jumping on the hype train, and so you know ele is my main since forever). In this weeks I’ve been insulted, accused of cheating, received rude comments due to asking for practice vs experienced players (God forgive u ask to practice defensive moves while playing D/D)..and even so I came here so I can at least try to separate fact from fiction:

1) Eles are OP

Yes we are, at this moment we have (always had great sustain) and we also manage to deal tons of damage (burning) and also we shine in team fights and can drag fights on points as we see fit.

2) Burning damage is OP on ele

Yes it is, would love to see it reduced (less burn stacks so we don’t destroy condition based builds), we shouldn’t have so much dps as an attrition class

3)Eles have too many sustain

STOP! NO just no…this game is already fast and furious enough…we need some classes to be able to be on point and not melt in 10 seconds flat to a spike…we and guardian bunkers are needed and have a role to play…what we shouldn’t have is sustain and DPS.

4)Eles require no skill, u just need to learn to learn combos and there u go

Are u kidding me???? u need to keep track of cooldowns know when and where not to skip rotations to avoid/deal a spike and return to optimal rotation, u need to manage the smallest health pool of the game knowing that when you’re spiked u have about 10 seconds to react or your dead…I don’t ask for u guys to love eles but this is just wonkers…until the latest balance patch we were considered one of the hardest classes to play and no one contested this…balance patch hits and we no longer take skill…righttttttt

5)PU mesmers and stealth regen thiefs that say that healing on ele is cheesy….

Come on guys…seriously? Seems to me there’s no difference in outhealing while kitting or disappearing and regen health as you need thus resetting the fight.

6)D/D eles win every duel…

Not true at all but we can drag fights so reinforcement come and thus turn a 1vs1 into a team fight…that is our ROLE. Several matchups are pretty bad for us:

PU mesmers
Shatter mesmers
Berzerker thiefs
Berzerker warriors
Condition and celestial necros

If they know what they are doing they are able to out pressure the ele forcing us to play for time, eventually in a 1 vs 1 duel they will gain the upper hand.

7) Warriors on duels that complain when an ele ports to safety in a duel

Ok…I can see where u come from If i stand there in your face u can kill me
faster…but…ermmm hope you don’t take this the wrong way, against you guys we need to kite…and hit when there’s no pressure on us. That is kinda the standard, mesmers do it, thiefs do it…why all the hate when an ele does it too? I also have an warrior and when i face an enemy that doesn’t port and kite i get annoyed because i know that isn’t a good duel, and if I’m dueling i want to fight good players so i can learn.

Cheers and have fun

The moment you listed as berserker thieves as a counter to ele was the moment you lost your credibility as a good ele considering you hard counter them.

A good thief will always beat any ele in a 1v1.

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Ok, I’ve had it with all the hate…so I’m gonna address some of the accusations being throw around against eles and hope this helps people appreciate were not monsters but players.

On this past weeks I’ve been playing conquest and dueling against pretty much every class out there, my skill level is normal (not an ubber player, so i can represent every elementalist jumping on the hype train, and so you know ele is my main since forever). In this weeks I’ve been insulted, accused of cheating, received rude comments due to asking for practice vs experienced players (God forgive u ask to practice defensive moves while playing D/D)..and even so I came here so I can at least try to separate fact from fiction:

1) Eles are OP

Yes we are, at this moment we have (always had great sustain) and we also manage to deal tons of damage (burning) and also we shine in team fights and can drag fights on points as we see fit.

2) Burning damage is OP on ele

Yes it is, would love to see it reduced (less burn stacks so we don’t destroy condition based builds), we shouldn’t have so much dps as an attrition class

3)Eles have too many sustain

STOP! NO just no…this game is already fast and furious enough…we need some classes to be able to be on point and not melt in 10 seconds flat to a spike…we and guardian bunkers are needed and have a role to play…what we shouldn’t have is sustain and DPS.

4)Eles require no skill, u just need to learn to learn combos and there u go

Are u kidding me???? u need to keep track of cooldowns know when and where not to skip rotations to avoid/deal a spike and return to optimal rotation, u need to manage the smallest health pool of the game knowing that when you’re spiked u have about 10 seconds to react or your dead…I don’t ask for u guys to love eles but this is just wonkers…until the latest balance patch we were considered one of the hardest classes to play and no one contested this…balance patch hits and we no longer take skill…righttttttt

5)PU mesmers and stealth regen thiefs that say that healing on ele is cheesy….

Come on guys…seriously? Seems to me there’s no difference in outhealing while kitting or disappearing and regen health as you need thus resetting the fight.

6)D/D eles win every duel…

Not true at all but we can drag fights so reinforcement come and thus turn a 1vs1 into a team fight…that is our ROLE. Several matchups are pretty bad for us:

PU mesmers
Shatter mesmers
Berzerker thiefs
Berzerker warriors
Condition and celestial necros

If they know what they are doing they are able to out pressure the ele forcing us to play for time, eventually in a 1 vs 1 duel they will gain the upper hand.

7) Warriors on duels that complain when an ele ports to safety in a duel

Ok…I can see where u come from If i stand there in your face u can kill me
faster…but…ermmm hope you don’t take this the wrong way, against you guys we need to kite…and hit when there’s no pressure on us. That is kinda the standard, mesmers do it, thiefs do it…why all the hate when an ele does it too? I also have an warrior and when i face an enemy that doesn’t port and kite i get annoyed because i know that isn’t a good duel, and if I’m dueling i want to fight good players so i can learn.

Cheers and have fun

berserker thieves? “pressure” on eles? dude, lmao you lost me man.
you leap into battle and die instantly to eles if you run zerker….

If its not a point-holding game ele is actually fairly average. At some point anet will have to decide between nerfing sustain or nerfing burn damage.

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Ok, I’ve had it with all the hate…so I’m gonna address some of the accusations being throw around against eles and hope this helps people appreciate were not monsters but players.

On this past weeks I’ve been playing conquest and dueling against pretty much every class out there, my skill level is normal (not an ubber player, so i can represent every elementalist jumping on the hype train, and so you know ele is my main since forever). In this weeks I’ve been insulted, accused of cheating, received rude comments due to asking for practice vs experienced players (God forgive u ask to practice defensive moves while playing D/D)..and even so I came here so I can at least try to separate fact from fiction:

1) Eles are OP

Yes we are, at this moment we have (always had great sustain) and we also manage to deal tons of damage (burning) and also we shine in team fights and can drag fights on points as we see fit.

2) Burning damage is OP on ele

Yes it is, would love to see it reduced (less burn stacks so we don’t destroy condition based builds), we shouldn’t have so much dps as an attrition class

3)Eles have too many sustain

STOP! NO just no…this game is already fast and furious enough…we need some classes to be able to be on point and not melt in 10 seconds flat to a spike…we and guardian bunkers are needed and have a role to play…what we shouldn’t have is sustain and DPS.

4)Eles require no skill, u just need to learn to learn combos and there u go

Are u kidding me???? u need to keep track of cooldowns know when and where not to skip rotations to avoid/deal a spike and return to optimal rotation, u need to manage the smallest health pool of the game knowing that when you’re spiked u have about 10 seconds to react or your dead…I don’t ask for u guys to love eles but this is just wonkers…until the latest balance patch we were considered one of the hardest classes to play and no one contested this…balance patch hits and we no longer take skill…righttttttt

5)PU mesmers and stealth regen thiefs that say that healing on ele is cheesy….

Come on guys…seriously? Seems to me there’s no difference in outhealing while kitting or disappearing and regen health as you need thus resetting the fight.

6)D/D eles win every duel…

Not true at all but we can drag fights so reinforcement come and thus turn a 1vs1 into a team fight…that is our ROLE. Several matchups are pretty bad for us:

PU mesmers
Shatter mesmers
Berzerker thiefs
Berzerker warriors
Condition and celestial necros

If they know what they are doing they are able to out pressure the ele forcing us to play for time, eventually in a 1 vs 1 duel they will gain the upper hand.

7) Warriors on duels that complain when an ele ports to safety in a duel

Ok…I can see where u come from If i stand there in your face u can kill me
faster…but…ermmm hope you don’t take this the wrong way, against you guys we need to kite…and hit when there’s no pressure on us. That is kinda the standard, mesmers do it, thiefs do it…why all the hate when an ele does it too? I also have an warrior and when i face an enemy that doesn’t port and kite i get annoyed because i know that isn’t a good duel, and if I’m dueling i want to fight good players so i can learn.

Cheers and have fun

I don’t think you should have this high Bunker or this high anything in celestial. I can down eles on my mes, sometime on my engi, but I sure as hell wouldnt be able to if I were in celestial or any amulet that has vitality, toughness or healing as its major stat.

I agree with most points as a non-ele.
Ele isn’t the problem, burn is. Sustain is fine. Non-burn dmg is fine. Reduce burn stacks across the board.

ResJudicator.7916:

Lettuce.2945:

The moment you listed as berserker thieves as a counter to ele was the moment you lost your credibility as a good ele considering you hard counter them.

Wasn’t this you as an ele dueling Caed on a zerker thief? I think he won every fight. This was all pre-specialization patch, when ele sustain was higher but burns were less potent.

https://youtu.be/C_dxpfLm1LU?t=5040

Nope, that’s Mbelch aka Tormentum Nex. And he didn’t use celestial. I know him. He doesn’t like using cele ammy.

Eles need these fixes:

• Slightly lower heal coefficients
• Fix burning game-wide. “however it is arena-net wants to do this”

Lettuce.2945:

ResJudicator.7916:

Lettuce.2945:

The moment you listed as berserker thieves as a counter to ele was the moment you lost your credibility as a good ele considering you hard counter them.

Wasn’t this you as an ele dueling Caed on a zerker thief? I think he won every fight. This was all pre-specialization patch, when ele sustain was higher but burns were less potent.

https://youtu.be/C_dxpfLm1LU?t=5040

Nope, that’s Mbelch aka Tormentum Nex. And he didn’t use celestial. I know him. He doesn’t like using cele ammy.

Well nex was probably one of if not the best d/d ele in na before cele ele became popular.

FrownyClown.8402:

Lettuce.2945:

ResJudicator.7916:

Lettuce.2945:

The moment you listed as berserker thieves as a counter to ele was the moment you lost your credibility as a good ele considering you hard counter them.

Wasn’t this you as an ele dueling Caed on a zerker thief? I think he won every fight. This was all pre-specialization patch, when ele sustain was higher but burns were less potent.

https://youtu.be/C_dxpfLm1LU?t=5040

Nope, that’s Mbelch aka Tormentum Nex. And he didn’t use celestial. I know him. He doesn’t like using cele ammy.

Well nex was probably one of if not the best d/d ele in na before cele ele became popular.

It doesn’t matter if he is the best d/d ele in the world. The problem is celestial d/d. The synergy with the amulet is too strong for holding points and 1v1 fights in spvp.

The only close match-ups for a DD ele should really be Cele Necro, Zerker Warrior, and Mantra Mesmer. Of those, Cele Necro is the only one that should win a majority of the 1v1s. PU Mesmer doesn’t really have the damage to kill a good DD ele if it just goes through the proper rotation. There are possibly some ranger builds, but it takes a very skilled ranger like Eurantien to pull those off.

Source: DD ele on several top NA teams like Ellusive, Genesis, and Radioactive.

Remove blast from player own fields and every one looses, and players needs to play better as a team, or change enterlly how blasts works and fields.

Change the overlords to compensate a bit the blasts loss.

Lettuce.2945:

The moment you listed as berserker thieves as a counter to ele was the moment you lost your credibility as a good ele considering you hard counter them.

I was just about to type this. But you beat me to it. lol

To everyone that says that a berzerker thief isn´t a bad match for elem you are more than welcome to come to 1v1 arena to show me how wrong i am, there are loads of thiefs there that will be more than able to show you what i mean.

1v1 in conquest is a different story, there is rarely a 1vs1 in conquest i can´t survive, i just need to manage to stay alive for 1 minute or less (depending on your team)…

And yes i´ve killed my share of thiefs on 1vs1 it´s a match up i can win IF the thief screws up, if he keeps stealthing and regening and spiking from stealth it´s a matter of time before he secures the win.

If you serously doubt my skills as ele (I’m not ubber player) please contact me in game and I’ll be more than happy to duel you respectfully.

And please don´t give arguments that predate this meta…were not talking about the past here.

And eles complement bunker guardians, they don´t bunk as well as guardians, but with guardian we are one of the few that will stay on point, a role that this game needs, or do you all want a game with high dps classes where who gets the point is decided by who shoots first?

We are a product of all the high dps builds out there, we exist to slow you down, the problem is the number of burning stacks we apply, as simple as that. That i agree needs to be nerfed.

Talyn Sneider.1825:

To everyone that says that a berzerker thief isn´t a bad match for elem you are more than welcome to come to 1v1 arena to show me how wrong i am, there are loads of thiefs there that will be more than able to show you what i mean.

1v1 in conquest is a different story, there is rarely a 1vs1 in conquest i can´t survive, i just need to manage to stay alive for 1 minute or less (depending on your team)…

And yes i´ve killed my share of thiefs on 1vs1 it´s a match up i can win IF the thief screws up, if he keeps stealthing and regening and spiking from stealth it´s a matter of time before he secures the win.

If you serously doubt my skills as ele (I’m not ubber player) please contact me in game and I’ll be more than happy to duel you respectfully.

And please don´t give arguments that predate this meta…were not talking about the past here.

And eles complement bunker guardians, they don´t bunk as well as guardians, but with guardian we are the only ones that will stay on point a role that this game needs, or do you all want a game with high dps classes where who gets the point is decided by who shoots first?

We are a product of all the high dps builds out there, we exist to slow you down, the problem is the number of burning stacks we apply, as simple as that. That i agree needs to be nerfed.

I don’t need to duel your hotjoin thieves. I already duel top thieves daily (3 of which are in my guild dueling wise) and we all agreed that eles are a hard counter to thieves. My guess is that you’re probably average at best by my guild’s standards and probably just simply got outplayed. I would suggest going to dueling servers and practice some more. And I’m not saying this in a mean way, it’s just really probably a practice issue and lack of awareness of thieves in general. Maybe play a thief then learn their mechanics and then you can counter it better on your ele.

come and play me then I don’t say I´m a top player but then you can make your own informed decision. And tell me how can you hard counter a class that can reset a fight at will and regen while doing so…I’m not afraid of learning…are you?

Talyn Sneider.1825:

come and play me then I don’t say I´m a top player but then you can make your own informed decision. And tell me how can you hard counter a class that can reset a fight at will and regen while doing so…I’m not afraid of learning…are you?

Are you on NA or EU? I’m on NA. And you’re a hard counter to thieves because of the constant pressure and blinds and burns. And the fact that the ele can outsustain the burst then pressure back, forcing them to go back in stealth to remove the burns. It’s too much pressure from the ele. And stealth can’t remove blinds, so if you burn blind them on basil venom, that’s a venom stack wasted if they don’t wait out the blind.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

The only close match-ups for a DD ele should really be Cele Necro, Zerker Warrior, and Mantra Mesmer. Of those, Cele Necro is the only one that should win a majority of the 1v1s. PU Mesmer doesn’t really have the damage to kill a good DD ele if it just goes through the proper rotation. There are possibly some ranger builds, but it takes a very skilled ranger like Eurantien to pull those off.

Source: DD ele on several top NA teams like Ellusive, Genesis, and Radioactive.

I agree those are the worst match ups of them all, the rest of them if an ele is skilled can be stall mated pretty easy (even at my standards)

What i wanted to show is that there are bad matchups for eles.

The main problem we pose is that in a conquest game even against those match ups we tend to stall until the fight turns into a NvsN and in those fights ele outperforms those classes…in my opinion.

What I suggest is that the number of burn stacks are reduced in our fire skills, this should make us keep our role to stall fights and team support, and will reduce our efficiency enough on team fights to make them more balanced.

Do you agree?

The main thing I want is for Ring of Fire to be reduced to 1-2 burn stacks, not 3. It’s easy enough to avoid those stacks, but it puts out way too much point control and forces too many dodges for such a fire and forget skill with such a high uptime.

Lettuce.2945:

Talyn Sneider.1825:

come and play me then I don’t say I´m a top player but then you can make your own informed decision. And tell me how can you hard counter a class that can reset a fight at will and regen while doing so…I’m not afraid of learning…are you?

Are you on NA or EU? I’m on NA. And you’re a hard counter to thieves because of the constant pressure and blinds and burns. And the fact that the ele can outsustain the burst then pressure back, forcing them to go back in stealth to remove the burns. It’s too much pressure from the ele. And stealth can’t remove blinds, so if you burn blind them on basil venom, that’s a venom stack wasted if they don’t wait out the blind.

I’m EU i notice and agree to what your saying…but at the moment (on my skill level) the only way i’m able to do the things your suggesting is taking earth. Blind on burning i use fairly well (at least i think so), the evasive arcana blinds I’m still learning to incorporate on my technique…that may be the reason i have such an hard time. Even so what i notice is I don´t have any trouble on keeping the thief at bay (duelled one for 45 minutes) but can´t finish him either and if i screw up I get quickly dispatched.

I´m not a top player average should be a fair accessment, but most player complain about all eles, top eles are a minority on the game…I doubt most of the complaints we see here in the forums come from players that faced top eles. What i wanted to show is that there are bad matchups for ele and that if we have our burning stacks diminished we should be back in line.

Do you agree? And would love to play against you (no salt) just love learning and I’m not afraid to lose

So if you ever see me online pm me.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

The main thing I want is for Ring of Fire to be reduced to 1-2 burn stacks, not 3. It’s easy enough to avoid those stacks, but it puts out way too much point control and forces too many dodges for such a fire and forget skill with such a high uptime.

Even me as an ele can’t say that would be a bad change. Would welcome that change to be honest.

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Lettuce.2945:

Talyn Sneider.1825:

come and play me then I don’t say I´m a top player but then you can make your own informed decision. And tell me how can you hard counter a class that can reset a fight at will and regen while doing so…I’m not afraid of learning…are you?

Are you on NA or EU? I’m on NA. And you’re a hard counter to thieves because of the constant pressure and blinds and burns. And the fact that the ele can outsustain the burst then pressure back, forcing them to go back in stealth to remove the burns. It’s too much pressure from the ele. And stealth can’t remove blinds, so if you burn blind them on basil venom, that’s a venom stack wasted if they don’t wait out the blind.

I’m EU i notice and agree to what your saying…but at the moment (on my skill level) the only way i’m able to do the things your suggesting is taking earth. Blind on burning i use fairly well (at least i think so), the evasive arcana blinds I’m still learning to incorporate on my technique…that may be the reason i have such an hard time. Even so what i notice is I don´t have any trouble on keeping the thief at bay (duelled one for 45 minutes) but can´t finish him either and if i screw up I get quickly dispatched.

I´m not a top player average should be a fair accessment, but most player complain about all eles, top eles are a minority on the game…I doubt most of the complaints we see here in the forums come from players that faced top eles. What i wanted to show is that there are bad matchups for ele and that if we have our burning stacks diminished we should be back in line.

Do you agree? And would love to play against you (no salt) just love learning and I’m not afraid to lose

So if you ever see me online pm me.

If you have an NA account, I’ll be glad to teach you. But honestly, eles are just a true hard counter to thieves, and so are a lot of things unfortunately. Thieves really got the shaft last patch 1 v 1 wise. Honestly, the only bad match up for eles are truly good mesmers who know what they’re doing and cele necros. That’s all. Everything else should be easily beaten, unless you duel a really good settlers ranger. That’s merely a case of being better outsustained/outpressured. This is strictly speaking in a dueling sense. Not tpvp. No one would waste that much time trying to 1 v 1 each other on a cele ele and settlers ranger.

I already suggested 8 ele nerfs that I feel are highly reasonable. Just go through my post history and you’ll find them. Burning is indeed one of them but everyone knows that one. The other is soothing ice, the icd needs to be raised to 40s or have the regen removed from it to prevent less rng cleanses with soothing disruption. Diamond skin needs a skillful rework in the sense that it procs 4 secs of resistance every time you enter earth above 75% hp. Blinding ashes needs an icd raise to 10 secs but PER target instead of just 1 target icd. Etc. Some things like that I suggested that would bring eles down to a reasonable level. But with how chronomancer looked in the beta…We might need the op ele version to fight them if they don’t rework chronomancers…

Will try to get one NA account. I’ll take your word for it and keep practicing that match up as you suggested. Those nerfs do indeed seem reasonable, I wouldn’t mind them as an ele, sometimes I must admit i get surprised at what i can out live on a team fight.

And you might be right about those chronomancers…saw one dueling and he wiped the floor with whatever class he fought. I managed a stale mate and was pretty satisfied with that.

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Will try to get one NA account. I’ll take your word for it and keep practicing that match up as you suggested. Those nerfs do indeed seem reasonable, I wouldn’t mind them as an ele, sometimes I must admit i get surprised at what i can out live on a team fight.

And you might be right about those chronomancers…saw one dueling and he wiped the floor with whatever class he fought. I managed a stale mate and was pretty satisfied with that.

Ah nice. I didn’t duel any good chronomancers but I can see the devastation it would cause when played by a real mesmer. And yup, keep practicing that match up. Probably the best way would be to play thief and you’ll have a better understanding of what they do or at least, try to do. For example, it helps to be able to predict when they’ll use shadow return to burst them with LF and burning speed. Stuff like that. I tend to bait them to use return by moving towards them as if I’m too far away from return location.

Revenants can fight eles pretty well by the way

FrownyClown.8402:

Revenants can fight eles pretty well by the way

Really? I don’t see how.

Jasher.6580:

FrownyClown.8402:

Revenants can fight eles pretty well by the way

Really? I don’t see how.

resistance and sending condis back for 3s. Plus their life steal stuff makes them handle eles pretty well. They aren’t quite there yet, but with a few buffs you might see a good contender vs eles

FrownyClown.8402:

They aren’t quite there yet, but with a few buffs you might see a good contender vs eles

Oh okay.

Just to put things in perspective to the OP. The thieves that kill eles (the “good” thieves) do not run berserker. A thief on berserker amulet has the same health pool as the ele (by your words, the lowest, i assume).

Now here’s my perspective. I thought thief was fine before the massive nerf we got last patch. Then again I never played D/P, always felt lame/cheese to me. Now it’s even more lame but you die as soon as someone looks at you the wrong way. Add to that the fact that D/P currently is the only overall build to a thief. And the only viable build is a squish build. That speaks volumes. Thieves are the class that has been getting the shaft ever since this game existed. Now every semi-condi build can take down thief easily (if they don’t run D/P). That’s how broken this kitten is.

Now stop complaining about your obviously overpowered build. Go back to fresh air and look how it is to be a thief

“Thieves are the class that has been getting the shaft ever since this game existed.”

There are some true things you’re saying, but this make you look stupid. Thief has ALWAYS been in the meta, unlike pretty much every other class.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

“Thieves are the class that has been getting the shaft ever since this game existed.”

There are some true things you’re saying, but this make you look stupid. Thief has ALWAYS been in the meta, unlike pretty much every other class.

Always in the meta and always getting nerfs. As the last WTS have shown, thief is in the meta because mobility, not because of combat prowess. Remove shortbow and thief is out of the meta. The thief on your team can win you the game …. but not because of fighting.

cap, decap, +1 rinse and repeat. Much OP. So meta…

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

“Thieves are the class that has been getting the shaft ever since this game existed.”

There are some true things you’re saying, but this make you look stupid. Thief has ALWAYS been in the meta, unlike pretty much every other class.

Thief is only in the meta because they can run and decap. Run Run Run Run Run is what you’re expected to do as a thief. Forget giving thieves any viable builds that actually allow them to fight!

Sword dagger thieves. Very sticky, very hard to actually pin down for damage.

Ok, I’ve had it with all the hate…so I’m gonna address some of the accusations being throw around against eles and hope this helps people appreciate were not monsters but players.

On this past weeks I’ve been playing conquest and dueling against pretty much every class out there, my skill level is normal (not an ubber player, so i can represent every elementalist jumping on the hype train, and so you know ele is my main since forever). In this weeks I’ve been insulted, accused of cheating, received rude comments due to asking for practice vs experienced players (God forgive u ask to practice defensive moves while playing D/D)..and even so I came here so I can at least try to separate fact from fiction:

1) Eles are OP

Yes we are, at this moment we have (always had great sustain) and we also manage to deal tons of damage (burning) and also we shine in team fights and can drag fights on points as we see fit.

2) Burning damage is OP on ele

Yes it is, would love to see it reduced (less burn stacks so we don’t destroy condition based builds), we shouldn’t have so much dps as an attrition class

3)Eles have too many sustain

STOP! NO just no…this game is already fast and furious enough…we need some classes to be able to be on point and not melt in 10 seconds flat to a spike…we and guardian bunkers are needed and have a role to play…what we shouldn’t have is sustain and DPS.

4)Eles require no skill, u just need to learn to learn combos and there u go

Are u kidding me???? u need to keep track of cooldowns know when and where not to skip rotations to avoid/deal a spike and return to optimal rotation, u need to manage the smallest health pool of the game knowing that when you’re spiked u have about 10 seconds to react or your dead…I don’t ask for u guys to love eles but this is just wonkers…until the latest balance patch we were considered one of the hardest classes to play and no one contested this…balance patch hits and we no longer take skill…righttttttt

They literally require no skill to fullfill the role you’re supposed to do in Conquest

5)PU mesmers and stealth regen thiefs that say that healing on ele is cheesy….

Come on guys…seriously? Seems to me there’s no difference in outhealing while kitting or disappearing and regen health as you need thus resetting the fight.

Stealth regen thieves… They do not outheal you, you outheal them by a very great amount. Just auto attacking in Air will already outheal the thief in stealth..

6)D/D eles win every duel…

Not true at all but we can drag fights so reinforcement come and thus turn a 1vs1 into a team fight…that is our ROLE. Several matchups are pretty bad for us:

PU mesmers
Shatter mesmers
Berzerker thiefs
Berzerker warriors
Condition and celestial necros

D/D has only real 1 counter in duels, which is the cele necro. D/D eles can easily defeat a Mesmer and most certainly a thief. If you can’t, thats actually a L2P issue

The mobility is used to +1 fights, not just decap. If you’re on a thief and avoiding all the fights, you’re doing it wrong. Their kit is designed for a fairly specific role at the moment. If you don’t like that role, that’s one thing, but it doesn’t mean the class as a whole got the kitten end of the stick. Ideally thief could have a better teamfight spec, but the game’s not perfect and thief has had it better than most classes.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Just to put things in perspective to the OP. The thieves that kill eles (the “good” thieves) do not run berserker. A thief on berserker amulet has the same health pool as the ele (by your words, the lowest, i assume).

Now here’s my perspective. I thought thief was fine before the massive nerf we got last patch. Then again I never played D/P, always felt lame/cheese to me. Now it’s even more lame but you die as soon as someone looks at you the wrong way. Add to that the fact that D/P currently is the only overall build to a thief. And the only viable build is a squish build. That speaks volumes. Thieves are the class that has been getting the shaft ever since this game existed. Now every semi-condi build can take down thief easily (if they don’t run D/P). That’s how broken this kitten is.

Now stop complaining about your obviously overpowered build. Go back to fresh air and look how it is to be a thief

No complaints here, just bringing facts that most people are way too salty and start bringing arguments that don’t make any sense to the forums.

If you read my posts you see I actually agree that eles need to be nerfed. And would also like some thief improvements.

Cheers

They literally require no skill to fullfill the role you’re supposed to do in Conquest

Sorry but anyone being objective will see this as a salty afirmation…we are overpowered yes…but we needed skill pre patch and we need skill now.

As u saw me being a average ele ain´t able to pull same results as a top ele, and I’ve seen my share of newb eles getting downed in 4 seconds flat in a team fight. So please stop exagerating…we are all admiting ele need nerfs no need to extrapolate things to try to speed up nerfs…this is why we get over the top nerfs.

D/D has only real 1 counter in duels, which is the cele necro. D/D eles can easily defeat a Mesmer and most certainly a thief. If you can’t, thats actually a L2P issue

Several eles already admited that a good mesmer is a bad matchup. But i trully doubt most of the players of the game have faced a top elementalist. If you face an average one (like me) you have a greater number of bad matchups.

Even if you argue that balancing should be done by top players level (actually agree with that) the proposed nerfs should be enough.

Please stop spreading the message that a ele will win all duels…that doesn´t make any sense. It depends on the skill level and there IS a skill issue on eles.

To the OP:

Basically saying that being a “Jack of all Trades” class is ok because “reasons”.
Ridiculous sustain while been able to dish damage of semi-zerk class at the same time, also even high condition damage because of how stupid high they can stack burning. Oh yeah really kittening balanced.

Everyone seems to miss a crucial problem. Eles only have 2 builds that work, and staff ele is just viable, not meta. I don’t care if d/d ele gets nerfed, but you better not touch that water and arcane line because the moment you do, all form of ele dies.

I don’t care and don’t mind that eles have lowest toughness and health pool. We have lots of blast finishers that compensate for our lack of survival. The problem is that currently all eles are forced on to that one build. And anyone who has been playing ele in pvp wants to play something more than d/d and staff and not be a crutch to a team.

The point is don’t touch water and arcane, nerf burning, buff scepter, and then let’s talk about d/d ele because I want it nerfed too.

Proving your prowess against a in-Fighter called D/D elementalist on 1v1 scenario is a no go. As a thief I don’t have a problem against burning condition stack (including teamfights) as long as my opponent is a human.
I do not know who the hell thief you guys are talking about and what his thief spec is, but if you got bursted and get more than 10stack of burning in a matter of second (including signet of fire) then I am afraid to say that, you are facing a non-human elementalist or who knows maybe he has more buttons to press than us.

Chapell.1346:

Proving your prowess against a in-Fighter called D/D elementalist on 1v1 scenario is a no go. As a thief I don’t have a problem against burning condition stack (including teamfights) as long as my opponent is a human.
I do not know who the hell thief you guys are talking about and what his thief spec is, but if you got bursted and get more than 10stack of burning in a matter of second (including signet of fire) then I am afraid to say that, you are facing a non-human elementalist or who knows maybe he has more buttons to press than us.

A human is perfectly capable of hitting buttons AS FAST as the game allows….. and the bots I’ve fought in this game have been god awful.

XxsdgxX.8109:

To the OP:

Basically saying that being a “Jack of all Trades” class is ok because “reasons”.
Ridiculous sustain while been able to dish damage of semi-zerk class at the same time, also even high condition damage because of how stupid high they can stack burning. Oh yeah really kittening balanced.

We are the jack of all trades cause ANET gave us that role…take it up to them if you don’t like one role that has always been the same.

Regarding the zerg damage…if you tone down the burns (as I agree needs to be done) you will be far from that damage outputs (see pre patch ele dps and you can verify that)

I admit that a load of salt is making you read what i wrote in a “creative” way.

I agree that eles need to be nerfed…just tired of all the hate and of reactions like the one you just did…nonsensical

TheFamster.7806:

Everyone seems to miss a crucial problem. Eles only have 2 builds that work, and staff ele is just viable, not meta. I don’t care if d/d ele gets nerfed, but you better not touch that water and arcane line because the moment you do, all form of ele dies.

I don’t care and don’t mind that eles have lowest toughness and health pool. We have lots of blast finishers that compensate for our lack of survival. The problem is that currently all eles are forced on to that one build. And anyone who has been playing ele in pvp wants to play something more than d/d and staff and not be a crutch to a team.

The point is don’t touch water and arcane, nerf burning, buff scepter, and then let’s talk about d/d ele because I want it nerfed too.

Completly agree I prefer staff ele to dagger dagger but it is borderline viable in pvp…great care has to be taken into nerfing mostly the dagger dagger skills (tunning the number of burn stacks for example)

NeXeD.3042:

Chapell.1346:

Proving your prowess against a in-Fighter called D/D elementalist on 1v1 scenario is a no go. As a thief I don’t have a problem against burning condition stack (including teamfights) as long as my opponent is a human.
I do not know who the hell thief you guys are talking about and what his thief spec is, but if you got bursted and get more than 10stack of burning in a matter of second (including signet of fire) then I am afraid to say that, you are facing a non-human elementalist or who knows maybe he has more buttons to press than us.

A human is perfectly capable of hitting buttons AS FAST as the game allows….. and the bots I’ve fought in this game have been god awful.

I admit, I am a frustrated Elementalist in the past(dont get me wrong, ilove how they design it including mechanic and playstyle of all weapon sets). I know eac of their skill including cooldown and traitline up until now, I know their weakness and where they stand strong even their casting capabilities including seconds and milliseconds oh even their projectile travel time to arrive in a distance on a target at said radius and position. You can call me Neo, The One in short I see everything that non ordinary human can see.

Maybe they just press more buttons than I or am I getting old that my reflexes is getting odd. Fine I already lost this conversation, I give up. See you in HoT and see for yourself how those bots improve.