Guild Wars 2

@Ross Biddle

I have returned several messages about teamups. It hasn’t happened yet.

Second, I just came from a game in which we were stomped 500-0. The Lord Helseth himself wouldn’t have been able to carry our side against that kind of matchmaking.I have dueled against Supcutie.. and we’d have lost with him on our side too.

-edit- Although, with either Helseth’s or Supcutie’s mmr, this match would never have been setup or I’d have been placed on the easy win side.

My point is that the odds are being set really very steep. In addition with every pre-programmed loss, they get steeper.

While there are skill issues, I have taken time and training to be an Auramancer Ele. I don’t claim to be a hot player, but I understand the fundamentals and can play. Now, I need a match in which I’m not constantly simply trying to survive.

Again the point of this thread. Every serious competition venue strives for even contests. Bear with me while I give a couple of anecdotal examples:

The largest and fastest boats almost never win Sidney to Hobart. All the boats are racing against an index.Basically, they’re racing against a perfectly sailed shadow of themselves. So it becomes a contest of sailing to one’s own best ability and not just a walkover for the “gold platers.”

The Rolex Sidney to Hobart is among the most hotly contested races in the world, surpassing the America’s Cup. Every boxing day it draws a huge audience around the globe.

TLDR? Start here

In International Chess, the rating system is quite similar to what ANET is supposedly using.

As a relatively new player, I was matched against a master rated player in one tournament. I knew going in that I had no realistic chance and indeed he actually made me take back one move and explained why it was wrong. He stomped me as expected.

My rating actually rose after that match. I was given bonus rating points for the bad matchup.

Had it been anet, I’d have not only lost rating points… my next match would be against a grand master rated player as punishment. That’s not logical.. but it is what is happening.

Ithilwen.1529:

@Ross Biddle

I have returned several messages about teamups. It hasn’t happened yet.

Second, I just came from a game in which we were stomped 500-0. The Lord Helseth himself wouldn’t have been able to carry our side against that kind of matchmaking.I have dueled against Supcutie.. and we’d have lost with him on our side too.

My point is that the odds are being set really very steep. In addition with every pre-programmed loss, they get steeper.

While there are skill issues, I have taken time and training to be an Auramancer Ele. I don’t claim to be a hot player, but I understand the fundamentals and can play. Now, I need a match in which I’m not constantly simply trying to survive.

Again the point of this thread. Every serious competition venue strives for even contests. Bear with me while I give a couple of anecdotal examples:

The largest and fastest boats almost never win Sidney to Hobart. All the boats are racing against an index.Basically, they’re racing against a perfectly sailed shadow of themselves.

The Rolex Sidney to Hobart is among the most hotly contested races in the world, surpassing the America’s Cup.

TLDR? Start here

In International Chess, the rating system is quite similar to what ANET is supposedly using.

As a relatively new player, I was matched against a master rated player in one tournament. I knew going in that I had no realistic chance and indeed he actually made me take back one move and explained why it was wrong. He stomped me as expected.

My rating actually rose after that match. I was given bonus rating points for the bad matchup.

Had it been anet, I’d have not only lost rating points… my next match would be against a grand master rated player as punishment. That’s not logical.. but it is what is happening.

When im sitting in the safety of no pip diamond, i’ll totally group with you ;D

Though seriously, if you haven’t, read Playing To Win. There’s no reason not to considering you’re choosing to compete along a competitive avenue.

Uhoh, here you go Ithy

Btw if the offer to group up still stands, I could use some help as well as I’m stuck at the beginning of Ruby, and my winrate going steadily down as I can be quite stubborn unfortunately. Of course I’m following directions and I can assure you I never rage. Also I consider myself an average player, maybe below that level, so no fancy stuff there. I’m EU, but my schedule is quite flexible as of now.

@Ross Biddle

Congratulations I guess. How is that on topic? In my view you started with good mmr and you got favored matches as a result.

Favoring one side is not “competition” and it’s definitely not “fun.” So yes, you are one of those having a good time this season.. I’m getting consistently unfavored matches.

feel your pain.
i am stuck in ruby but also i dont like to play meta builds atm and to try out new builds as i like more theorycraft than to reach legendary

but also when i play for win like when i group up with legend friend who knows how to play. and we team agasint full legend while our team also had 2 diamond while one diamond in 2v2 left me like 1v2 as look at me till i was down and stomp didnt rush to ress 2 steps and also the same for my ally thief (he said instead of ress he use block shield while the thief getting the dmg…. common. and at the last he qq about how he team with ruby (me) …
its not common to see diamond ppl playing like amber regarding rotation support pressure etc…

also its feel atm i am team with lower mmr ppl cause i starting to have more losses as always i see so many bad rotations like we hold 2 cap. isee the enemies rushing close so i ask ele and guard to stay mid and hold it so we can 3v3 at far. boom they come for 5v3 and we lose mid ….. now tell me do they deserve to be diamond …..
or even better we doing 4v4 on mid . i see the enemy have good aoe on point with necros and guard. so i ask just to contest and target the necro. i cc the necro 3 times and dmg him till 25% hp . necro back off and noone coming to help finish him. i turn my back and see 3 allies dead…. (we had ele also) … sooo… what the hell am i doing wrong….

its like the system wants me to play with full team with ts …. as without it noone listen or react at time

Go play unranked, way better.

But… here is my recommendation:

Reroll a free to play toon. Their MMR is average, so you will get better team mate. Your MMR is abysmal on your main.

Even F2P vanilla account dd ele with menders would bring you wins. (i am stretching, since you know how to play condi mesmer, give condi mesmer vanialla a try)

You did a pretty good job showing to all are MMR is bad when you got stuck into MMR Hell. Now proof to everyone you can sail to ruby with 50 games with new account. Simple as that.

Meditation Guardian DPS for damage is good. Signet Necro is good. Condi Engi is good too. Not super OP… but doable.

You will see… it’s all about MMR.

and since the Matchmaking in ranked is a BROKEN joke, come play spvp where it matthers… into Unranked. Thank you Anet to let us have a skill based matchmaking queue.

unranked is worst ppl testing build doing 4 cap on close or far versus 1 thief who run away ….

So, I teamed up with a (diamond rank) player whom I know to be good. Here’s my recent match history. These matches are simply so far out of whack that it might not be possible to overcome. The one victory was prior to the team up.

@Starbreaker

You’ve clearly missed the point. The bottom line is that matches are being deliberately set up in a way that’s unfair. That is not competition or sport.

In addition, I’m not the only one. This type of matchmaking will alienate a large number of players, precisely the opposite of the what was intended for the wings.

I have changed profession, trained with an expert and teamed with high ranking players..I’m also approaching 500 games this season alone.

I’ve done my part. Now I need fair matches. That really isn’t unreasonable to ask.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Ithilwen, dude, you know you have my full support. But I don’t want to offer up grouping with you because I’ve played with you in the past and it really dragged down the team.

Also, if I’m running in past mid ruby, and you feel you’re overwhelmed at mid sapphire, I don’t know how pulling you up an entire divisions worth of pips (into a division that has no tier safety net) is going to go for you. That’s really stacking the odds, and in this game there’s no additional payout for the extra gamble.

So I really want to help you achieve your goals, but I’m at a loss on how to assist you. Perhaps there’s a fundamental flaw you’re not aware of. Maybe you’re bound by your own mental shackles. If you havent, you should probably take an hour out of your gaming work day and read through the entirety of this.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw

If Playing to Win doesn’t help you in some way, nothing can 0.o

Ithilwen.1529 and Ross Biddle.2367

Moment Ross Biddle do you play in EU?

Or is misstake Ithilwen.1529 for somebody else and he plays in US.

Just because you team up with one player doesn’t mean it will magically fix anything, you are getting boosted to a division you are most likely out skilled in, causing more of a liability to the team, if you had more players know they would be carrying you it is possible, quantity of games played =/= skill.if your friend was playing on an alt account then he probably would have been able to help you in your division but boosting you to play against Diamond players won’t help much.

Actually, I personally played reasonably well. In my own estimation ( admittedly ) I was of similar skill to my teammates.

/15 asduohasdkjuhasduh

rly amusing thread very interesting to see whats possible in this world since i don tknow anybody who needed more than 100 games which would already be a bit slow xD

Calazor.8364:

rly amusing thread very interesting to see whats possible in this world since i don tknow anybody who needed more than 100 games which would already be a bit slow xD

You know it’s mathematically impossible for everyone to reach the same goal in 100 games.
For someone to win, someone has to equally lose.

messiah.1908:

unranked is worst ppl testing build doing 4 cap on close or far versus 1 thief who run away ….

You need to work your MMR.

The difference between both MM system, is unranked let you goes out of low MMR by giving you opponent team in your MMR range.

In ranked, the problem is PIP range is not good enough to have equal skill MMR range 10 players accross the board.

My unranked experiences is way better than yours. I am team with pro leaguers versus other pro leaguers.

In unranked you don’t have the MMR hell from division entry. So, if you are serious about playing good spvp, unranked is way better MM than Ranked…

But if you can’t climb your own MMR in the ladder, please don’t blame me or Unranked queue.

A ladder got a bottom and a top.

If you played under 20 games in unranked, you need to play more. After decay, your MMR will be really bad but you can overcome that with ease in duo/trio or premade for a night or two.

Unranked MM system can be work on. While Ranked is harder if you got MMR hell in divisions entry (or playing with pver guyz that have avg mmr as default and wreking all avg players in the procesS).

I’d be happy to play unranked and improve my MMR. Sadly, the shiny requires playing in ranked. At my current win rate, there is no way I will be able to cross 4 divisions.

The matchmaker is making matches with one team deliberately stronger than the other. Such matches would not be permitted in many competition venues.

In ANET PvP this is referred to as “competitive.”

The wings and the associated seasons were to bring in new players to PvP. What has actually happened is that those new players have been used as cannon fodder.

I strongly suspect that these PvP seasons will cause a net reduction in PvP population.

Ithilwen.1529:

I’d be happy to play unranked and improve my MMR. Sadly, the shiny requires playing in ranked. At my current win rate, there is no way I will be able to cross 4 divisions.

The matchmaker is making matches with one team deliberately stronger than the other. Such matches would not be permitted in many competition venues.

In ANET PvP this is referred to as “competitive.”

The wings and the associated seasons were to bring in new players to PvP. What has actually happened is that those new players have been used as cannon fodder.

I strongly suspect that these PvP seasons will cause a net reduction in PvP population.

Completely agreed.

It’s why i play unranked.

You are the one that got the most Famous Bad MMR of this game. Please use this to show that creating a F2P account, you could go further with better win ratio to show how the matchmaking is unfair.

Actually, you are simply QQing and can be perceived like a bad looser.

Come back with real progress on league with new account (in your MMR favor) to show you are better than your main MMR account.

The PIPs match-making from season 2 and 3 give that kind of unfair mmr situation because we don’t have the mean to work on it with the “pip-range” thing.

All this because people QQ about pro-leaguer making new account to lower their MMR team (smurfing) in season 1.

The real solution to smurfing, should had been not giving pips at all to division higher than 2 of the smurf.

@Jourdelune

I’m not sure what to make of your post. You agree, then claim I am “simply QQing.”

It would be a very interesting experiment to make a new free account and play it. I believe I would do well.

I just don’t have the time. 490 games into the season, I’m still stuck in Sapphire. If I do not make Ruby.. I’d need to make diamond next season.

With this matchmaking my chances are razor thin as it is and I can’t afford the experiment.

Ithilwen are you on NA servers?

Yes I play on NA. I’m usually online most of the night and into the morning.

once my Alt acct is rank 20 I will see if I can assist you in if you are on.

The matchmaking is a terrible mess. Matches are still one-sided. If you have one match out of ten that doesn’t end with a 300+ difference in points it’s considered a lucky day.
It’s the same kitten we had in S2.

They really have to reset all MMR to zero after a season ends, everyone starts at the bottom and fix the matchmaking.
Separate groups from solo players and stop throwing people who lost 1 to x matches in a group and put them against people who won their last x matches.
That worked way better before HoT or even in S1.

gebrechen.5643:

The matchmaking is a terrible mess. Matches are still one-sided. If you have one match out of ten that doesn’t end with a 300+ difference in points it’s considered a lucky day.
It’s the same kitten we had in S2.

They really have to reset all MMR to zero after a season ends, everyone starts at the bottom and fix the matchmaking.
Separate groups from solo players and stop throwing people who lost 1 to x matches in a group and put them against people who won their last x matches.
That worked way better before HoT or even in S1.

It would be 1500 not zero since all new accounts start with 1500, since the average will allow the players to get a better reflection based on upward/doward movement. All they have to do is remove the MMR grouping and use only pips range per division or MMR only but without stacking instead of the hybrid MMR pip system.

ANET would argue that refreshing MMR would be “unfair” to those with high mmr.

The counter argument is that it’s “unfair” to the people with low MMR not to.Since anet has chosen to deliberately stack unfair matches .. if you have a low MMR you will continue to have bad matches and sink.

No serious competition venue in the world deliberately sets unfair matches.

The argument is that the matches will eventually level out; At some point only a given skill level will remain in a given range. Hence, the matches will be fair.

This is flawed because:

People smurf on free accounts, thereby bypassing the system.

The low population forces the match maker to expand it’s search range. Therefore the level out effect, if any, is cancelled.

Most importantly.. the thinking is inherently cruel. “The lower ranked players ought to be happy to suffer for the first 2/3 of the season. That way, the upper ranked players can feel that they are skillful and exclusively matched with people they feel are adequately skilled.”

“Beside that, giving our ‘high tier’ players rolfstomps makes them feel that they are strong players.”

I think the strongest argument against stacking unfair matches is that it simply isn’t working.

Ithilwen.1529:

ANET would argue that refreshing MMR would be “unfair” to those with high mmr.

The counter argument is that it’s “unfair” to the people with low MMR not to.Since anet has chosen to deliberately stack unfair matches .. if you have a low MMR you will continue to have bad matches and sink.

No serious competition venue in the world deliberately sets unfair matches.

The argument is that the matches will eventually level out; At some point only a given skill level will remain in a given range. Hence, the matches will be fair.

This is flawed because:

People smurf on free accounts, thereby bypassing the system.

The low population forces the match maker to expand it’s search range. Therefore the level out effect, if any, is cancelled.

Most importantly.. the thinking is inherently cruel. “The lower ranked players ought to be happy to suffer for the first 2/3 of the season. That way, the upper ranked players can feel that they are skillful and exclusively matched with people they feel are adequately skilled.”

“Beside that, giving our ‘high tier’ players rolfstomps makes them feel that they are strong players.”

I think the strongest argument against stacking unfair matches is that it simply isn’t working.

As it stands there is no incentive at all for low MMR players to even be playing ranked.
They will never earn the wings, they will never advance divisions.
If they just want fun and reward tracks they should play unranked, because ranked sounds too painful for a lot of people.
Dangling the wings in front of people not capable of earning them and then using those people as meat for the better players to advance will backfire in the end.
I don’t know how anyone thought this could be a good idea.

Quite a few posters have complained that the current league system is “grindable.” There’s often a concomitant argument that “MMR Hell” does not exist.

Both are false. It’s very clear that the casual players the legendary backpack was meant to attract had no chance of winning it.

ANET, you need to do two things: Revert matchmaking to unranked style and discourage free accounts from participating in leagues.

That’s 500+ games folks in this season alone:

Ithilwen.1529:

Quite a few posters have complained that the current league system is “grindable.” There’s often a concomitant argument that “MMR Hell” does not exist.

Both are false. It’s very clear that the casual players the legendary backpack was meant to attract had no chance of winning it. That’s not good design.

ANET, you need to do two things: Revert matchmaking to unranked style and discourage free accounts from participating in leagues.

That’s 500+ games folks in this season alone:

If nothing else, you can say that you helped a lot of people advance by losing that many.

I am certain that I did help a lot of people advance. Any number of times I’ve seen the same opponents in successive matches.

Sadly, the population is low enough that they never got out of matchmaking range. So, I got fed to them over and over.

I can’t say that I feel in any way noble or good about it, though.

Ithilwen.1529:

I have fulfilled all but one requirement for the wings. At only 377 games this season, I’ve taken it relatively easy it is true.

My current 22.3% Win rate is up from a low approaching 18%. That took a great deal of effort.

I’ve put in near employement hours in bursts into GW2 PvP during 3 seasons. In the course of it I’ve learned to have some basic ability in two new professions.

Still, the chances are rather slim to non existent that I can pass 4 divisions in the next 1 1/2 seasons with the matchmaking consistently putting me on the side scheduled to lose.

I’m hardly a casual player. It’s time to acknowledge that the wings really weren’t for “everyone” and that the matchmaking needs a conceptual change.

can u plz make a video on how u play?

Ithilwen.1529:

Quite a few posters have complained that the current league system is “grindable.” There’s often a concomitant argument that “MMR Hell” does not exist.

Both are false. It’s very clear that the casual players the legendary backpack was meant to attract had no chance of winning it.

ANET, you need to do two things: Revert matchmaking to unranked style and discourage free accounts from participating in leagues.

I’m currently a casual with the legendary backpack. I do agree, however, that the matchmaking needs to be altered slightly to better reflect skill levels and that fail safes need to be removed between tiers; fails safes between division should stay but be modified so that after a certain amount of losses (or if the MMR gap is too large), people CAN drop between divisions.

@Baest (and therefore in direct reply and on-topic, since the question is relevant to my assertions in this thread)

My game play isn’t the issue. I’ve been teaming and boosted into Diamond where I play adequately if not great.

I will not post a video of my game play. I did that last season. After doing so, I was asked to kill myself in RL. The player was apparently annoyed to see me on his team. These kind of comments continued for a week or so.

There was some good feedback and I improved my game as a result. Overall though, it wasn’t worth the price.

Ithilwen.1529:

@Baest (and therefore in direct reply and on-topic, since the question is relevant to my assertions in this thread)

My game play isn’t the issue. I’ve been teaming and boosted into Diamond where I play adequately if not great.

I will not post a video of my game play. I did that last season. After doing so, I was asked to kill myself in RL. The player was apparently annoyed to see me on his team. These kind of comments continued for a week or so.

There was some good feedback and I improved my game as a result. Overall though, it wasn’t worth the price.

You gotta ignore trolls AND report them, they’ll probably get a ban if you report em for saying stuff like that. But yea don’t let em get you down, they aren’t worth listening to.

@Mewreon

Your suggestion would simply make the problem worse. Dropping divisions would highly frustrate the players.

In addition, it would have a strong tendency to depopulate the middle of the pack. That would force the matchmaker to expand it’s range ever further.. That would result in even more unbalanced matches. We’d see Diamond v. Emerald very quickly.

Safety nets aren’t the problem. The system as it stands is “dynamically unstable.” As I explained in another post; The system reinforces trends. The further you get from a 50/50 win rate the harder the system pushes you to have win or loss streaks.

I can’t think of a single instance in which a dynamically unstable system, ( beyond the classic “ball on top of a cone” example, ) is desirable.

Suppose we waited however long it took for such a system to “balance out” with droppable divisions. (I’m assuming that players would keep coming to the game.)
You would see few if any players at 50% w/l rates. You would also see few if any players in Sapphire.

The result would be extreme matches. The matchmaker would be forced to draw players from the ends of the spectrum to continue making one team stronger than the other.

The solution is to emulate most competition systems. If you win, you get a harder match next time. If you lose, you get an easier match next time. ANET does the opposite and the results demonstrate that it is not the right logic.

Ithilwen.1529:

snip

With a matchmaking modification (as mentioned in my post), the system would work in a fashion similar to League of Legends’ system (I should have mentioned this was the system I wanted), where games are balanced around a player’s MMR.

LoL’s system currently works and and it didn’t take very long to balance out. However, the difference in player base is probably why LoL’s system has balanced out so quickly. Although it is not a perfect system, it should be better than the current GW2 system.

Diamond v Emerald shouldn’t be a problem if the games are measured off of MMR instead of pips, unless someone intentionally tanks their MMR, which in turn wouldn’t be fun because you would have to sit in 5-10min matches as there is no surrender function.

Personally, I wouldn’t be able to tell if such a modification to matchmaking would work with a smaller player base, but it could be worth a try.

I have no experience with LoL. I would 100% support a system balanced around MMR with some conditions;

The matches were actually balanced. That is, the teams were made as even as possible. Anet is deliberately making the teams uneven.

Division Crossing based achievements would need to be removed.

Anti smurfing measures would need to be in place, including no free accounts in leagues. They don’t get HoT, why should they be allowed in leagues? That’s particularly true since it’s clear that high level players are returning to the lower ranks on ftp accounts.

Ithilwen.1529:

The solution is to emulate most competition systems. If you win, you get a harder match next time. If you lose, you get an easier match next time. ANET does the opposite and the results demonstrate that it is not the right logic.

The reason you get easier matches after losing a ton in most games, is because the matchmaker’s opinion of you drops a ton. In GW2, PIPS are a main component of how you’re matched, so you’d have to lose a ton of PIPS for easier matches.

The matchmaker itself can’t start favouring one side based on those players being on a losing streak, that’s just biased in the opposite direction. All good matchmakers are independent trials (no bearing on past win/loss streaks.) All good matchmakers simply even the strength of both teams as equally as possible – so obviously the current system is bad, (a few people suddenly on win streaks disagree that it’s bad).

It is not possible to do what you’re describing unless the league has zero safe pips. If that were the case, who knows if ArenaNet would nerf the achievements so hard that every player in Amber can grind them? Careful what you wish for

Chaith.8256:

Ithilwen.1529:

The solution is to emulate most competition systems. If you win, you get a harder match next time. If you lose, you get an easier match next time. ANET does the opposite and the results demonstrate that it is not the right logic.

The reason you get easier matches after losing a ton in most games, is because the matchmaker’s opinion of you drops a ton. In GW2, PIPS are a main component of how you’re matched, so you’d have to lose a ton of PIPS for easier matches.

The matchmaker itself can’t start favouring one side based on those players being on a losing streak, that’s just biased in the opposite direction. All good matchmakers are independent trials (no bearing on past win/loss streaks.) All good matchmakers simply even the strength of both teams as equally as possible – so obviously the current system is bad, (a few people suddenly on win streaks disagree that it’s bad).

It is not possible to do what you’re describing unless the league has zero safe pips. If that were the case, who knows if ArenaNet would nerf the achievements so hard that every player in Amber can grind them? Careful what you wish for

I get the feeling Anet wouldn’t nerf the achievements, if there were zero safe pips. They’d want players to strive to get to the higher divisions, in order to earn the reward, to keep them playing it.

We’d probably see the same complaints on the forums, even with pip loss across all divisions. It’d just be “Keep losing pips and I can’t get out of Amber!” instead of “Can’t get out of Tier 4 Sapphire!”.

Zynt.5769:

Chaith.8256:

Ithilwen.1529:

The solution is to emulate most competition systems. If you win, you get a harder match next time. If you lose, you get an easier match next time. ANET does the opposite and the results demonstrate that it is not the right logic.

The reason you get easier matches after losing a ton in most games, is because the matchmaker’s opinion of you drops a ton. In GW2, PIPS are a main component of how you’re matched, so you’d have to lose a ton of PIPS for easier matches.

The matchmaker itself can’t start favouring one side based on those players being on a losing streak, that’s just biased in the opposite direction. All good matchmakers are independent trials (no bearing on past win/loss streaks.) All good matchmakers simply even the strength of both teams as equally as possible – so obviously the current system is bad, (a few people suddenly on win streaks disagree that it’s bad).

It is not possible to do what you’re describing unless the league has zero safe pips. If that were the case, who knows if ArenaNet would nerf the achievements so hard that every player in Amber can grind them? Careful what you wish for

I get the feeling Anet wouldn’t nerf the achievements, if there were zero safe pips. They’d want players to strive to get to the higher divisions, in order to earn the reward, to keep them playing it.

We’d probably see the same complaints on the forums, even with pip loss across all divisions. It’d just be “Keep losing pips and I can’t get out of Amber!” instead of “Can’t get out of Tier 4 Sapphire!”.

Yeah, so I’m actually not really convinced removing safe pips is necessary, I’d welcome it, but not necessary.

It would actually allow people who are more progressed then their playing ability to more easily fall into a normal win rate if they lost pips.

What would be sweet would just for matchmaking to revert to both teams being evenly matched, and I’m sure the majority of the crying would stop. Safe pips cause people to be stuck in a higher division, getting a smaller than normal win rate, aka “MMR hell” though, so I’m sure there’d still be tears about that.

@Chaith..

But that’s just the point of this whole thread. The matchmaker IS favoring one side. It’s favoring the side with the most wins. It is deliberately stacking strong players against weak.

This is not competition. The closest thing I can liken it to is wwf “wrestling” with it’s scripted matches.

If the current matchmaking were transferred to ESL: The highest rated team would play the lowest. The next highest rated would play the next lowest. AND IT WOULD STAY THAT WAY FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON, MATCH AFTER MATCH.

Would you consider that competitive? Would it exhibit skill on the part of the season’s winners?

Ithilwen.1529:

@Chaith..

But that’s just the point of this whole thread. The matchmaker IS favoring one side. It’s favoring the side with the most wins. It is deliberately stacking strong players against weak.

This is not competition. The closest thing I can liken it to is wwf “wrestling” with it’s scripted matches.

If the current matchmaking were transferred to ESL: The highest rated team would play the lowest. The next highest rated would play the next lowest. AND IT WOULD STAY THAT WAY FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON, MATCH AFTER MATCH.

Would you consider that competitive? Would it exhibit skill on the part of the season’s winners?

Just gonna quote myself here:

Chaith.8256:

All good matchmakers simply even the strength of both teams as equally as possible – so obviously the current system is bad

The matchmaker is currently bad, that doesn’t mean your suggestions are fair or beyond critique though. The pro league / WWF analogies aren’t really that helpful either, most people get the idea of how the matchmaker currently works already – it’s like, what should ArenaNet do about it that I care about.

@Chaith

/offer handshake/ I agree. It’s what ANET should do about it that is important. On that we are in full accord.

Sadly though, if I fail to make Ruby this season I’d need to make Diamond next season. Since that’s unrealistic, ( I’m in T4 Sapphire with over 500 games this season, ) I’m putting in insane hours trying to overcome the current system.

I’m gratified that you agree that the system is “bad.” Perhaps that will help convince some of the people who are still defending it as “skill based.”

Yes, the matchmaker should be striving for the teams to be as even as possible. On that, we are again in full accord.

The match maker is unfair but, realistically its probably hard to find 10 players that are equally as unskilled as some of the players posting in here.

I don’t mean it to sound rude but thats essential what is being asked. You don’t like the fact that you are being matched against better players so want anet to match you with players that are as equally bad as you are. Then that way you can coast to Diamond or legendary where you don’t belong.

Ithilwen.1529:

@Chaith

/offer handshake/ I agree. It’s what ANET should do about it that is important. On that we are in full accord.

Sadly though, if I fail to make Ruby this season I’d need to make Diamond next season. Since that’s unrealistic, ( I’m in T4 Sapphire with over 500 games this season, ) I’m putting in insane hours trying to overcome the current system.

I’m gratified that you agree that the system is “bad.” Perhaps that will help convince some of the people who are still defending it as “skill based.”

Yes, the matchmaker should be striving for the teams to be as even as possible. On that, we are again in full accord.

Your last reply to me was pure righteous indignation and I just re-quote the same message and it’s handshakes and gratification.. yes I feel lots of players are not impressed with the matchmaker quality whether they are winning or losing.

What is your expectation though? ArenaNet hot-fix S3 matchmaking right now to guarantee pip grinders advancement to Ruby if the safe pips in Sapphire aren’t enough help?

While any rational person would agree the matchmaker needs to be more neutral, especially at Legend, you have also climbed too high grinding safe pips and now dis-proportionally blaming the matchmaker for your troubles. The most balanced matchmaker in the world won’t give you 50% win rate in T4 Sapphire.

So try to look at it objectively, not just out of desperation or fear of missing out on The Ascension, cause’ you tie nearly every point back to your current personal league standing.

Warlord.9074:

The match maker is unfair but, realistically its probably hard to find 10 players that are equally as unskilled as some of the players posting in here.

I don’t mean it to sound rude but thats essential what is being asked. You don’t like the fact that you are being matched against better players so want anet to match you with players that are as equally bad as you are. Then that way you can coast to Diamond or legendary where you don’t belong.

I don’t think there’s an easier way of saying it tbh. The matchmaking isn’t great and does need work, but Ithilwen, given how much you’ve been posting over the last 6 months, I don’t think any changes they’ll make will satisfy you, until it’s designed in a way that it gets you, personally, the Legendary Backpiece.

Ithilwen.1529:

@Chaith..

But that’s just the point of this whole thread. The matchmaker IS favoring one side. It’s favoring the side with the most wins. It is deliberately stacking strong players against weak.

This is not competition. The closest thing I can liken it to is wwf “wrestling” with it’s scripted matches.

If the current matchmaking were transferred to ESL: The highest rated team would play the lowest. The next highest rated would play the next lowest. AND IT WOULD STAY THAT WAY FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON, MATCH AFTER MATCH.

Would you consider that competitive? Would it exhibit skill on the part of the season’s winners?

No this is totally wrong. If this was in ESL the highest rated team would play the second highest. The third highest would play the fourth highest. IT TRIES TO MATCH YOU AGAINST THE NEXT HIGHER OR LOWER group of consecutive MMR elligible players. I think you completely misudnderstand… or I do.

Plus unless your the bottom players… half the time roughly, you’ll be the likely winners. Even if your say at the 25% mark of MMR for elligible players.

Warlord.9074:

The match maker is unfair but, realistically its probably hard to find 10 players that are equally as unskilled as some of the players posting in here.

I don’t mean it to sound rude but thats essential what is being asked. You don’t like the fact that you are being matched against better players so want anet to match you with players that are as equally bad as you are. Then that way you can coast to Diamond or legendary where you don’t belong.

No, with division drops people can float around the division that correlates with their skill until they get better. We need division drops but only with a complete MMR reset since many MMR tankers from season 1 still haven’t recovered while lots of smurf accounts hurt other players’ MMRs. So there’s lots of deflation and inflation. On a thief I was actually winning against a Primordial Legend Warrior (a soft counter where warrior should win) as a thief until he popped an invuln and I had to disengage to a node where a teammate was. Highest I ever got was T3 Ruby.

@Chaith

No I was sincere. Sorry you read it that way. I am capable of holding more than one line of thought.

As a hobbyist programmer, the current matchmaking makes me angry. The results were easy to foresee with minimal thought.

As a GW2 player I’m angry that I’ve put in this much work for a prize that was allegedly for “everyone” and it looks likely that I’ll fail at the very last obstacle. Would I like to see changes, (e.g. removing the division crossing requirement,) that would let me get the prize I’ve worked for? Of course I would.

Again as a GW2 player, I’d like to see the issue fixed. The matchmaking is driving away the very players the backpack was intended to attract. Lower pvp population means lower quality games for everyone. Of course I’d like to see the issues fixed.

Yes, I post often. I cherish a tiny grain of hope in my heart of hearts that someone is listening. Also, tbh… it relieves some of the stress of 400 point stomps, back to back.

As to my skill. The seasons are not an accurate measure of my skill inasmuch as I am consistently placed on the team predicted to lose. No surprise.. I lose.

@Shion

I was speculating as to what ESL matchmaking would look like if it were set the same way that pvp matchmaking currently is.

ESL is closer to what pvp should look like.