Guild Wars 2

This weekend, with everyone playing the new Elite specs, damage is out of control. People are dying before they can even have a chance to dodge. Some of the most prominent examples I’ve found were:

Dragonhunter. If you can land your traps, and keep them inside (Extremely easily with Elite trap/Bow5/hammer 5/ GS5), they’re going to go down, and there isn’t much they can do about this.
Chronomancer is burst mesmer on Steroids. I was trying out a full cleric druid, and There was absolutely no point in trying out that build, because nothing can stand up to their burst.
Daredevil can really lay on the hurt, and when they use their new elite skill, you stand there, just scratching your head, unsure of what happened, because you had 33% of your health left.

I haven’t faced a Scrapper yet, and every time I go up against a Reaper, they’re with a Chronomancer or Daredevil so I can’t speak as to how big their damage its by itself.

So, how can I start defending against this? Specifically Chronomancers? I can kill a DD in 1v1, but Chronomancers still leave me scratching my head because I lose most of my health before I can dodge roll.

Thanks for the advice, guys!

Everything and everyone is high.

stability and protection should do the trick.

Stop freaking complaining damage is high.
It is like the first time all the new specs come into play. Surely people don’t understand the mechanics will die.

Same thing after June patch. People say damage is too high and now everyone is playing easy cheesy bunker spec and face tank all the damage.

That’s a valid point, however, the people playing many of these specs don’t fully know what they’re doing either, which means the damage is going to get even worse as people figure out what does and doesn’t work, and as rotations get cleaner.

It’s really strange. You got people making threads about the bunker/sustain meta being out of control while others make threads about damage being too high.

I don’t understand this forum.

Axyl.9408:

This weekend, with everyone playing the new Elite specs, damage is out of control. People are dying before they can even have a chance to dodge. Some of the most prominent examples I’ve found were:

Dragonhunter. If you can land your traps, and keep them inside (Extremely easily with Elite trap/Bow5/hammer 5/ GS5), they’re going to go down, and there isn’t much they can do about this.
Chronomancer is burst mesmer on Steroids. I was trying out a full cleric druid, and There was absolutely no point in trying out that build, because nothing can stand up to their burst.
Daredevil can really lay on the hurt, and when they use their new elite skill, you stand there, just scratching your head, unsure of what happened, because you had 33% of your health left.

I haven’t faced a Scrapper yet, and every time I go up against a Reaper, they’re with a Chronomancer or Daredevil so I can’t speak as to how big their damage its by itself.

So, how can I start defending against this? Specifically Chronomancers? I can kill a DD in 1v1, but Chronomancers still leave me scratching my head because I lose most of my health before I can dodge roll.

Thanks for the advice, guys!

Never seen dragonhunter with hammer and traps, you just talk nonesense. I am playing 2 days in a row for over 200+ matches in pvp and seen 0 ZERO guardians with hammer (that applies to DH as well).
Maybe in theory that would work but in practice not.

I’ve seen few DH with traps, dodged their traps and killed them with ease with my DH.

Everyone else are using Reapers. And so many bad reapers out there. They want to exploit because it is OP now.

Chronomancer is tough target, very good burst capabilities.

I’ve seen lots of DD’s and druids too.

I’ve seen also rifle warriors trying to exploit that bug – 2x dmg burst (in wvw is oneshot nowdays).

Ragnarox.9601:

Never seen dragonhunter with hammer and traps, you just talk nonesense. I am playing 2 days in a row for over 200+ matches in pvp and seen 0 ZERO guardians with hammer (that applies to DH as well).
Maybe in theory that would work but in practice not.

I’ve seen few DH with traps, dodged their traps and killed them with ease with my DH.

Lol, you are obviously the only one playing this game and your opinion on what someone else has encountered is obviously fact. I mean, Arenanet clearly only sold 1 copy of the game, those 4,999,999 other people who bought the game don’t exist.

I feel like the opposite, i ran into a few spvp matches where everyone was cele or something. Literally no one died in the entire match and i had top dmg at the end of the match <.<

If the game launches as it is now(which it wont) i think the survival focused meta in spvp would only grow worse, much worse.

Learn to Bring Druid

Kuya.6495:

It’s really strange. You got people making threads about the bunker/sustain meta being out of control while others make threads about damage being too high.

I don’t understand this forum.

Everything and everyone is high.

@OP

The dragonhunter build you mention is a gimmick build. It kills you in seconds, but also dies in seconds. It should only ever kill you the first time.

Chronomancer is too strong, pretty sure most people agree.

Scrapper is too strong as well, but since it’s the first BWE for it, it’s forgiveable as long as they tweak it. There are a lot of +stats traits and overly powerful synergies. In addition, it dramatically lessens two big weaknesses for engineers, which are CC and conditions.

Reaper will beat most pure melee builds, which is a problem. However, it can be kited to a degree and is weak against crowd control outside of shroud. Could use a few tweaks, but not game-breaking.

I haven’t seen any dare devil which is more threatening than a core thief.

Reaper and Chrono are very strong.

But they aren’t any stronger than any other top DPS build and they both have their counters.

I was in a match with my guild against two Chronomancers and two Druids… we were stunlocked into Oblivion and all abilities were constantly on cooldown. We ended up winning by out rotating them but lost every straight fight. You know what we said in Teamspeak? “This is some crazy synergy, we will have to work hard to counter it.” No one was complaining, no one was kittening, no one was saying the synergy between these two classes when spammed was over powered… it was something new and we were all laughing and having fun.

Kuya.6495:

It’s really strange. You got people making threads about the bunker/sustain meta being out of control while others make threads about damage being too high.

I don’t understand this forum.

What most players lose to they come to kitten about. Other players who agree bolster that players position. It is as simple as that.

Schurge.5194:

I was in a match with my guild against two Chronomancers and two Druids… we were stunlocked into Oblivion and all abilities were constantly on cooldown. We ended up winning by out rotating them but lost every straight fight. You know what we said in Teamspeak? “This is some crazy synergy, we will have to work hard to counter it.” No one was complaining, no one was kittening, no one was saying the synergy between these two classes when spammed was over powered… it was something new and we were all laughing and having fun.

You’re doing it wrong. You should come to the forums and complain and ask for nerfs

Relax, after release the nerf train will hit every single class. Enjoy the big damage while it lasts.

Kuya.6495:

It’s really strange. You got people making threads about the bunker/sustain meta being out of control while others make threads about damage being too high.

I don’t understand this forum.

GW2 is a game of extremes. On one side we have the extreme tanky builds which are practically unkillable by 95% of the professions/builds. On the other side we have the damage extreme were if two of those clash they can die in a single hit. Literally… a zerker reaper vs. some other zerker low health class (Thief/Ele) can literally kill it in a single hit.

That’s why I think GW2 can never be an actual balanced game with a big PvP scene.

Sure it could be fixed, but at the current pace of balance updates and their unwillingness to make actual mechanical changes I don’t see it going anywhere in the next years.

If they would add more stat customization to PvP, you wouldn’t have extremes.

Of course, Its BWE. Hint: Beta. What does that mean?

Exciton.8942:

Stop freaking complaining damage is high.
It is like the first time all the new specs come into play. Surely people don’t understand the mechanics will die.

Same thing after June patch. People say damage is too high and now everyone is playing easy cheesy bunker spec and face tank all the damage.

yes thats a valid point but there is a lot of dmg flying around. A lot of aoe dmg doing insane dmg. With the super flashy animations sometimes its really hard to figure out what from what because everything starts melding together once a fight on point starts.

WuGzaGenius.5684:

stability and protection should do the trick.

Interesting how thief lacks both of this

Damage isn’t that high for most skills. The problem is the pace. Too many skills can be used within too little time without even having alacrity and swiftness on. With the most used builds there’s no openings to interrupt any key damage skill because there isn’t any key damage skills to interrupt. You interrupt their highest damage skill, they just use it again because it doesn’t have a recharge, or just spam all the other skills and do more damage anyways.

There’s no room for strategy and tactical play with the most used builds. It’s all spammity spam.

Kolly.9872:

WuGzaGenius.5684:

stability and protection should do the trick.

Interesting how thief lacks both of this

Your kit doesn’t involve Protection, Stability or Burn. You are the weakest link. :P

Dirame.8521:

Ragnarox.9601:

Never seen dragonhunter with hammer and traps, you just talk nonesense. I am playing 2 days in a row for over 200+ matches in pvp and seen 0 ZERO guardians with hammer (that applies to DH as well).
Maybe in theory that would work but in practice not.

I’ve seen few DH with traps, dodged their traps and killed them with ease with my DH.

Lol, you are obviously the only one playing this game and your opinion on what someone else has encountered is obviously fact. I mean, Arenanet clearly only sold 1 copy of the game, those 4,999,999 other people who bought the game don’t exist.

I didn’t see one dragonhunter trap in about 50 ranked matches over the weekend. And maybe a handful of people playing the elite including myself. Traps are crap.

brannigan.9831:

Dirame.8521:

Ragnarox.9601:

Never seen dragonhunter with hammer and traps, you just talk nonesense. I am playing 2 days in a row for over 200+ matches in pvp and seen 0 ZERO guardians with hammer (that applies to DH as well).
Maybe in theory that would work but in practice not.

I’ve seen few DH with traps, dodged their traps and killed them with ease with my DH.

Lol, you are obviously the only one playing this game and your opinion on what someone else has encountered is obviously fact. I mean, Arenanet clearly only sold 1 copy of the game, those 4,999,999 other people who bought the game don’t exist.

I didn’t see one dragonhunter trap in about 50 ranked matches over the weekend. And maybe a handful of people playing the elite including myself. Traps are crap.

Funny, because I’ve seen a 3-trap dragonhunter at least every 5th match. I was playing unranked, though….

No Pulse.2967:

brannigan.9831:

Dirame.8521:

Ragnarox.9601:

Never seen dragonhunter with hammer and traps, you just talk nonesense. I am playing 2 days in a row for over 200+ matches in pvp and seen 0 ZERO guardians with hammer (that applies to DH as well).
Maybe in theory that would work but in practice not.

I’ve seen few DH with traps, dodged their traps and killed them with ease with my DH.

Lol, you are obviously the only one playing this game and your opinion on what someone else has encountered is obviously fact. I mean, Arenanet clearly only sold 1 copy of the game, those 4,999,999 other people who bought the game don’t exist.

I didn’t see one dragonhunter trap in about 50 ranked matches over the weekend. And maybe a handful of people playing the elite including myself. Traps are crap.

Funny, because I’ve seen a 3-trap dragonhunter at least every 5th match. I was playing unranked, though….

I dont play unranked, because that is just testing ground, ranked are real deal and its DH empty. You can see lots of stuff in unranked, even spirit weapons or sigil guardians which have no place in ranked.

Ragnarox.9601:

No Pulse.2967:

brannigan.9831:

Dirame.8521:

Ragnarox.9601:

Never seen dragonhunter with hammer and traps, you just talk nonesense. I am playing 2 days in a row for over 200+ matches in pvp and seen 0 ZERO guardians with hammer (that applies to DH as well).
Maybe in theory that would work but in practice not.

I’ve seen few DH with traps, dodged their traps and killed them with ease with my DH.

Lol, you are obviously the only one playing this game and your opinion on what someone else has encountered is obviously fact. I mean, Arenanet clearly only sold 1 copy of the game, those 4,999,999 other people who bought the game don’t exist.

I didn’t see one dragonhunter trap in about 50 ranked matches over the weekend. And maybe a handful of people playing the elite including myself. Traps are crap.

Funny, because I’ve seen a 3-trap dragonhunter at least every 5th match. I was playing unranked, though….

I dont play unranked, because that is just testing ground, ranked are real deal and its DH empty. You can see lots of stuff in unranked, even spirit weapons or sigil guardians which have no place in ranked.

BWE3 is a testing ground. If Unranked is a “testing ground”, and it also has lower que times, it’s no mystery that more testing of elite specs occurred in unranked.

Try not to fall off your 5 story high-horse, geez.

Lol 5 days ago someone was complaining about this being ‘bunker meta’ and now this.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/How-can-we-get-out-of-this-bunker-meta/first#post5547802

this forum only consist of 10% of the player base..maybe even less.

you should’ve seen d/d venom condi thief burst. If you have no condi cleanse or on cd, you can get instagib in literally 1 second.

Indeed the dps is out of control, some elite specs are over powered dealing insane damage and receiving none at the same time!

Dragonhunter > I daze > I knock you down > I daze again > you are dead

Scraper > hi! > what? are you hitting me? > yeah you are dead

Daredevil > I am here, evade > no I am there, evade > I am back and full hp, evade > you are dead

Reaper > wait chill man > slash > slash > dead

Tempest > Look at me I have cool animations! > Look… > and then Tempest is dead!

Chronomancer > I am here > no I am not > I am almost dead > no I am not > ops you are dead!

Druid and Harold seam balanced… but to be honest I haven;t encounter them much.

P.S
Also what’s wrong with Guardian and 12 stacks of burn in 3 sec? This build needs a fix fast! And what’s the deal with Warriors? Are you gonna boost them even more with each patch? They take no damage and they kill people in 3 skills, they have insane mobility, defense, aoe and crowd control. How come and the 2 heavy armor users (highest defense plus blocks or invulnerability skills) deal the most damage? How is that fair?

PS2. Engineer is also broken after last patch… Flamethrower, omfg! They just hit one skill!

Salamander.2504:

Ragnarox.9601:

No Pulse.2967:

brannigan.9831:

Dirame.8521:

Ragnarox.9601:

Never seen dragonhunter with hammer and traps, you just talk nonesense. I am playing 2 days in a row for over 200+ matches in pvp and seen 0 ZERO guardians with hammer (that applies to DH as well).
Maybe in theory that would work but in practice not.

I’ve seen few DH with traps, dodged their traps and killed them with ease with my DH.

Lol, you are obviously the only one playing this game and your opinion on what someone else has encountered is obviously fact. I mean, Arenanet clearly only sold 1 copy of the game, those 4,999,999 other people who bought the game don’t exist.

I didn’t see one dragonhunter trap in about 50 ranked matches over the weekend. And maybe a handful of people playing the elite including myself. Traps are crap.

Funny, because I’ve seen a 3-trap dragonhunter at least every 5th match. I was playing unranked, though….

I dont play unranked, because that is just testing ground, ranked are real deal and its DH empty. You can see lots of stuff in unranked, even spirit weapons or sigil guardians which have no place in ranked.

BWE3 is a testing ground. If Unranked is a “testing ground”, and it also has lower que times, it’s no mystery that more testing of elite specs occurred in unranked.

Try not to fall off your 5 story high-horse, geez.

Dude you missed the point, unranked is testing ground for lots of unusual builds. I am talking bout meta testing in ranked where already most of skilled players play. Playing against meta is not the same as playing against someone who is using spirit weapons, or playing for fun, got it now?Or I need to sketch too?

Jaetara.4075:

Druid and Harold seam balanced… but to be honest I haven;t encounter them much.

Nah, Harold’s a jerk who’s been ruining the game for a long time now.

Belial.9350:

Lol 5 days ago someone was complaining about this being ‘bunker meta’ and now this.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/How-can-we-get-out-of-this-bunker-meta/first#post5547802

I think this is reflective of the larger problem, though – GW2 has become a game of extremes where there’s a perpetual arms race between burst builds and bunkers. It’s not a scenario where only damage or only defense is the problem, even if we appear to have settled into a “bunker meta.” Both bunkers and burst builds have been given stronger tools than ever before to carry out their respective roles (or a variety of roles, such as in the case of the D/D Ele), and while the overall result may be a meta where teams just try to tank burst while outrotating opponents, it doesn’t always look like that when you’re examining matches on a smaller scale. If you have the wrong build for a situation, or you get 2v1’d, or you make a mistake, the heavily polarized meta is going to make sure you feel the consequences quickly and sharply. Damage can still be too high in a bunker meta because of how it affects small-scale plays, and in this sort of situation, the solution isn’t just to nerf damage, because that just reinforces the bunker meta. You need to nerf everything, and since the community seems unhappy with the current state of bunkering, you probably need to nerf sustain harder than damage.

Personally, I think the goal should be for bunkers to generally die slowly in 1v1’s compared to regular builds, and have access to a certain amount of active defenses that protect them from high spikes of damage (rendering burst builds less effective than more stable DPS builds for killing bunkers). Burst builds would ideally still be effective at killing other burst builds and the balanced DPS builds that could take down bunkers. Of course, player skill, 2v1’s, and unexpected plays could still change the outcome of any of these matchups, so you’d have a soft “rock-paper-scissors” style of play that would encourage a variety of build styles to be present in a team (Burst beats balanced, balanced beats bunker, bunker beats burst). Of course, this is all extremely theoretical, and I can’t say how it would actually play out, but I think it sounds preferable to what we have now.

Damage isn’t too high. Condi spam is too high. The best way to test: Whenever you die in PvP, look at what killed you. Do you see more direct damage or condi damage in there?

MithranArkanere.8957:

Damage isn’t that high for most skills. The problem is the pace. Too many skills can be used within too little time without even having alacrity and swiftness on. With the most used builds there’s no openings to interrupt any key damage skill because there isn’t any key damage skills to interrupt. You interrupt their highest damage skill, they just use it again because it doesn’t have a recharge, or just spam all the other skills and do more damage anyways.

There’s no room for strategy and tactical play with the most used builds. It’s all spammity spam.

I think you’re wrong. If you watch a series of duels between two mesmers (or two thiefs) with the exact same build, chances are one of them will consistently come out on top. That’s because it’s not “spammity spam” that makes the win, but positioning, timing, CD management and even spacing (which is underused in this game).

These skill combos probably look fast to you because you’re not used to play a marauder build. Try one (not necro), you’ll get rekt in the beginning, but when you get use to it, you’ll develop useful reflexes!

style.6173:

Damage isn’t too high. Condi spam is too high. The best way to test: Whenever you die in PvP, look at what killed you. Do you see more direct damage or condi damage in there?

As much as I hate condis, you’re wrong about that. If I kill a thief with my mesmer, he’ll take 20k damage, spread over a multitude of different damaging skills and traits, because he will be able to heal just once before he dies.

Suppose the same thief duels an ele (thieves, please stop doing that). He’ll die slower, but will be able to heal several times (counting Shadow Rej), and the burning, ticking slowly, will slowly add up. In addition, different skills apply burning, but the death log only says “burning” for every burn application. That’s the difference.

I remember a player calling me a “condi kitten” because I killed him “with poison” on my dagger wielding berserker thief.

style.6173:

Damage isn’t too high. Condi spam is too high. The best way to test: Whenever you die in PvP, look at what killed you. Do you see more direct damage or condi damage in there?

Every match I had has always ended with direct damage majorly outshining condition damage. Just like damage and sustain are high healing and cleansing are as well so conditions are fine.

I thought people were dying too fast as well.

style.6173:

Damage isn’t too high. Condi spam is too high. The best way to test: Whenever you die in PvP, look at what killed you. Do you see more direct damage or condi damage in there?

dear style,

I took your advice to check what kills me and if burning was the culprit but…. I didn’t die

no worries, I’ll post the on here a screenie of what killed me the next time I die.

sincerely,
abc

style.6173:

Damage isn’t too high. Condi spam is too high. The best way to test: Whenever you die in PvP, look at what killed you. Do you see more direct damage or condi damage in there?

Dear style,

I know how much condition damage means to you so I played this match with you in mind. Please enjoy the screen shot of a fond memory.

Truly yours,
abc

Everyone thinks damage is high when they’re not familiar with what’kittenting them. Give it some time and the perception of damage being too high will fade, just like it did after the June 23rd patch hit.

Sagat.3285:

Everything and everyone is high.

and that’s why i tell the kiddies to pop a Xanax when they come down from being high…damage dealers in gw2

abc.5790:

style.6173:

Damage isn’t too high. Condi spam is too high. The best way to test: Whenever you die in PvP, look at what killed you. Do you see more direct damage or condi damage in there?

Dear style,

I know how much condition damage means to you so I played this match with you in mind. Please enjoy the screen shot of a fond memory.

Truly yours,
abc

lol alphabet man, you sir are having too much fun.

abc.5790:

style.6173:

Damage isn’t too high. Condi spam is too high. The best way to test: Whenever you die in PvP, look at what killed you. Do you see more direct damage or condi damage in there?

Dear style,

I know how much condition damage means to you so I played this match with you in mind. Please enjoy the screen shot of a fond memory.

Truly yours,
abc

Pick any 1 match, and most all of your death screens. You’ll find out very quickly that you mostly died to condis.

style.6173:

abc.5790:

style.6173:

Damage isn’t too high. Condi spam is too high. The best way to test: Whenever you die in PvP, look at what killed you. Do you see more direct damage or condi damage in there?

Dear style,

I know how much condition damage means to you so I played this match with you in mind. Please enjoy the screen shot of a fond memory.

Truly yours,
abc

Pick any 1 match, and most all of your death screens. You’ll find out very quickly that you mostly died to condis.

He plays in EU. I’ll hunt him down on my burn guard and post my damage inflicted on him lololol