Guild Wars 2

It is partly because a lot of builds have lost their stats from trait lines and those stats have been reallocated to gear (amulets for pvp). So someone running a zerker amulet will have a lot more power while a lot of builds are losing that toughness and vit they may have had from trait lines.

Bunker Guard seemed to do me well, no medi guard beat me last night as a bunker, I killed them all.

Omg anyone with a mouse and keyboard is OP now if they run berserker, or Condi bomb. They eliminated the certain roles of certain classes

Meekz.9172:

Omg anyone with a mouse and keyboard is OP now if they run berserker, or Condi bomb. They eliminated the certain roles of certain classes

Because anyone can spec for dps now, they eliminate the role of Thief/Mesmer? it’s hard to accept that Necro/Condi Rangers can be viable now too, isn’t it

Enjoying he patch so far. It seems to be rewarding high risk play and punishing bad players/builds.

There’s nothing skilled in stealth burst and the rng to proc first.

I love this patch, finally high risk and high reward!

Lol 2-3 secs kill times in a game like this is far from being skilful. People saying that makes me think they find CoD competitive too…

RNG and burst openings. Such skill, much risk v reward. This patch made people better players magically! Amazing! (S)

its faster to just nuke a downed body instead of stomping it… if somebody of your team is downed don’t even try to res but just cleave the enemy down if they try to stomp… this is disgusting and if this will not be addressed it’s gonna turn into a horrible new meta…

XxSmokedatganjaxX.2948:

Lol 2-3 secs kill times in a game like this is far from being skilful. People saying that makes me think they find CoD competitive too…

I agree that damage is a bit too high currently.

However, it is perfect time to improve your skills because one or two mistake screws you even if you go for some tanky build. Previously if I play shoutbow warrior, I don’t even need to watch what my opponent is doing and just do my own rotation.

Use the time to practice and learn the new mechanics. They will surely tone down a lot of stuff. By then, you will be a much better player.

Shrubsy.9720:

MithranArkanere.8957:

Roshambo is not a test of skill. Whoever hits first wins. This means latency and teleports win over attrition and skill.

PvP should be like a waltz. 1,2,3; 12,3. Instead, it’s just a single finale note “ta-da!”.

If you or your opponent are dying , first move, every time… That’s a learn to play issue. At minimum, you have two dodges. In reality, every class has a large variety of defensive options. Skilled vs skilled actually is a waltz now. A beautiful one. Instead of a clumsy one, where screw ups go largely unpunished.

You cannot dodge while stunned or immobilized. And you can’t avoid both from someone who pops them from stealth. There’s no time for screwups when there’s no actual battle but a series of 2-second takedowns.

Fights should be on a 1-2 minute cycle. Instead, they last little more than 1-3 seconds. Whoever hits first or outnumbers the enemy wins. I’m yet to see an exception to this.

It’s like a fighting game with 1 hit healthbars that may have blocks and dodges, but then 3-4 of the characters have unavoidable whole-screen attacks that can’t be dodged, blocked or interrupted. It may sound cool for some people on paper, and it will may even work with vs machine matches, but then you play test it in player vs player matches, and it turns out boring as the second hell.

To have real fun battles you need time for recoveries and attrition. People must go sometimes “Oh, snap, It was not enough! They are fighting back and all my skills are on recharge, I screwed up!” The current numbers leave no room to that. Someone who hits hard and fast will rarely leave any openings for counters and fighting back.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Shrubsy.9720:

MithranArkanere.8957:

Roshambo is not a test of skill. Whoever hits first wins. This means latency and teleports win over attrition and skill.

PvP should be like a waltz. 1,2,3; 12,3. Instead, it’s just a single finale note “ta-da!”.

If you or your opponent are dying , first move, every time… That’s a learn to play issue. At minimum, you have two dodges. In reality, every class has a large variety of defensive options. Skilled vs skilled actually is a waltz now. A beautiful one. Instead of a clumsy one, where screw ups go largely unpunished.

You cannot dodge while stunned or immobilized. And you can’t avoid both from someone who pops them from stealth. There’s no time for screwups when there’s no actual battle but a series of 2-second takedowns.

Fights should be on a 1-2 minute cycle. Instead, they last little more than 1-3 seconds. Whoever hits first or outnumbers the enemy wins. I’m yet to see an exception to this.

It’s like a fighting game with 1 hit healthbars that may have blocks and dodges, but then 3-4 of the characters have unavoidable whole-screen attacks that can’t be dodged, blocked or interrupted. It may sound cool for some people on paper, and it will may even work with vs machine matches, but then you play test it in player vs player matches, and it turns out boring as the second hell.

To have real fun battles you need time for recoveries and attrition. People must go sometimes “Oh, snap, It was not enough! They are fighting back and all my skills are on recharge, I screwed up!” The current numbers leave no room to that. Someone who hits hard and fast will rarely leave any openings for counters and fighting back.

Still sounds like you’re doing something wrong.

For all those people that seem to think everything is ok and everyone else should just L2P…….Anet seems to disagree with you and has every intention of nerfing your crazy damage. ; P
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Things-we-know/first
Also, for those complaining about the damage so much, you’re wasting your time in this thread. Should be complaining in the thread linked above.

Shaogin.2679:

For all those people that seem to think everything is ok and everyone else should just L2P…….Anet seems to disagree with you and has every intention of nerfing your crazy damage. ; P
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Things-we-know/first
Also, for those complaining about the damage so much, you’re wasting your time in this thread. Should be complaining in the thread linked above.

tldr: Expect small changes over the coming weeks to balance things out, not sweeping changes.

4) There are some overpowered builds

“Some” overpowered builds doesn’t sound like concerning the overall damage increase.

Mesmer one shoting everyone except thief with vamprism

XxSmokedatganjaxX.2948:

Lol 2-3 secs kill times in a game like this is far from being skilful. People saying that makes me think they find CoD competitive too…

This guy nailed it !

I mean, even in GW1, a shadow prison assassin with burst of agression could’nt kill anyone within 2 seconds. Even then burst of agression got nerfed despite that !

But in GW2 outnumbering your opponent is the key i guess !

Entenkommando.5208:

4) There are some overpowered builds

“Some” overpowered builds doesn’t sound like concerning the overall damage increase.

Keep reading. In a later posts they state that all forms of damage are unbalanced right now.

I will agree damage is way too high on numerous builds. I 2 shot a thief for 9k+6k with weakness on me using rampage.

Dustin.2793:

I will agree damage is way too high on numerous builds. I 2 shot a thief for 9k+6k with weakness on me using rampage.

Yup, Rampage is insanely strong.

I just love how all these no-names are suddenly appearing telling pillars/veterans of the community “L2P” because their favourite insta-gank spec/class is suddenly not only viable but faceroll easy to play.

Honestly, anyone who thinks this current iteration of damage/balance is okay has no interest in the health of GW2’s competitive game mode, and is only interested in their instagib fun which is all PvP is right now.

PistolWhip.2697:

I just love how all these no-names are suddenly appearing telling pillars/veterans of the community “L2P” because their favourite insta-gank spec/class is suddenly not only viable but faceroll easy to play.

Honestly, anyone who thinks this current iteration of damage/balance is okay has no interest in the health of GW2’s competitive game mode, and is only interested in their instagib fun which is all PvP is right now.

Although I enjoy the new trait changes I do find these people increadably annoying. I get that bursting damage from stealth at max range brings you pleasure Mesmer. I will eventually find a build that will make you go back to wvw again.

PistolWhip.2697:

I just love how all these no-names are suddenly appearing telling pillars/veterans of the community “L2P” because their favourite insta-gank spec/class is suddenly not only viable but faceroll easy to play.

Honestly, anyone who thinks this current iteration of damage/balance is okay has no interest in the health of GW2’s competitive game mode, and is only interested in their instagib fun which is all PvP is right now.

+1. It feels like some priv server with modified damage…

Yep become Ping V Ping.

chemie banger.9624:

Yep become Ping V Ping.

I’ll have you know, a latency dependent competitive game mode is a clear indicator of high risk/ high reward. You take the risk of playing the game with your ping even slightly higher than an opponent, and your reward is to know they killed you using no skill at all.

Welcome to E-sportz!

Lol TY PistolWhip.
My latency down to Australia is way higher =)

Everyone is playing glass cannons, so yes, DPS seems high. If everyone was playing glass-cannons before the patch, it would have felt exactly the same.

Pre-patch everyone was playing tanky builds so they were doing less DPS and you could get away with running berserker stats without instantly dying. The reality is that soldier/cele/rabid tanky builds still destroy berserker builds in 1v1, and the meta will quickly shift back to those builds.

PistolWhip.2697:

I just love how all these no-names are suddenly appearing telling pillars/veterans of the community “L2P” because their favourite insta-gank spec/class is suddenly not only viable but faceroll easy to play.

Honestly, anyone who thinks this current iteration of damage/balance is okay has no interest in the health of GW2’s competitive game mode, and is only interested in their instagib fun which is all PvP is right now.

I’m playing necro. I like the changes. I am not roflstomp.

Entenkommando.5208:

PistolWhip.2697:

I just love how all these no-names are suddenly appearing telling pillars/veterans of the community “L2P” because their favourite insta-gank spec/class is suddenly not only viable but faceroll easy to play.

Honestly, anyone who thinks this current iteration of damage/balance is okay has no interest in the health of GW2’s competitive game mode, and is only interested in their instagib fun which is all PvP is right now.

I’m playing necro. I like the changes. I am not roflstomp.

Are you telling veterans who have been PvPing with years and criticizing the flaws of every Meta/patch, including this one, to “L2P”?

PistolWhip.2697:

Are you telling veterans who have been PvPing with years and criticizing the flaws of every Meta/patch, including this one, to “L2P”?

Hmmm…I’m playing PvP since beta, soooooo…..YES

Entenkommando.5208:

PistolWhip.2697:

Are you telling veterans who have been PvPing with years and criticizing the flaws of every Meta/patch, including this one, to “L2P”?

Hmmm…I’m playing PvP since beta, soooooo…..YES

Then you’re also a problem.

Necro was never roflstomp. The issue with Necro/Range never was their 1v1 capability in a fight, a lot of them dominated the 1v1 Servers if you attended any. Longbow ranger in particular.

The issue was, they brought nothing to team fights, or conquest as a game mode when COMPARED to the amazing support/mechanics other classes could bring.

The issue with necro wasn’t them being rolfstomp, heck they were faceroll to play on Power in 1v1’s, a lot of them will tell you that.

The issue was they were selfish and useless for the game mode in most cases.

Necros are a great support for your team. Just a very agressive kind.

The only problems are lack of movement and low defense against cc. But on a close combat map like Forest and Temple they are a wonderful addition to your team. (I have to admit that they are quite weak on legacy for example)

And I basically just wanted to point out that as a necro main, one of the worst classes considering self defense against cc, I still like the damage changes.

I already got used to recieving a lot of damage and I know how to avoid it. So to come back to your question: I do say l2p..or at least get used to it. It’s not hard.
I do like beeing punished heavily for making mistakes. Now you have to play smart if you want to stay alive.

Entenkommando.5208:

Necros are a great support for your team. Just a very agressive kind.

The only problems are lack of movement and low defense against cc. But on a close combat map like Forest and Temple they are a wonderful addition to your team. (I have to admit that they are quite weak on legacy for example)

And I basically just wanted to point out that as a necro main, one of the worst classes considering self defense against cc, I still like the damage changes.

I already got used to recieving a lot of damage and I know how to avoid it.

Without disrespect, this is hyperbole though. Whenever people complain they don’t realise the *classes (EDIT) are close enough in balance at most states of the game for it not to effect it at this level.

It has only and will only matter in top tier.

That is like the 5% bro, or 10%. That is ESL, or WTS or ToL, not ranked Queue or Unranked. It is always weird when I see people moan about top tier when they don’t even play in any of the hosted tournaments where the meta counts.

You could of, and even after the patch you can run ANYTHING ON ANY CLASS and have some modicum of success.

So Necro has never been as horrible as people make it seem with exaggeration, especially not in fights. They just sucked at conquest, and now I don’t know, there is too many changes, they might be the new meta or not, I haven’t even explored all the possibilities yet.

I agree that necros have been very bad for tournaments. And balance seems quite nice as well (besides ANet’s favourite little warrior ^^)

But I’m definitly looking forward to see the overall changes there. Watching those fights used to be extremly boring for me. Maybe this will change.
And since you won’t see a 5v5 zerker meta there it will be very interesting to see what people will come up with.

As I said: I personally like this kind of challenging pvp rather than having 5 chances to undo your mistakes. It forces you to think about using your dodges, using your defensive skills and it forces you to pay attention to what the enemy is doing. Every mistake will be heavily punished and you may only have one second chance.

Entenkommando.5208:

I agree that necros have been very bad for tournaments. And balance seems quite nice as well (besides ANet’s favourite little warrior ^^)

But I’m definitly looking forward to see the overall changes there. Watching those fights used to be extremly boring for me. Maybe this will change.
And since you won’t see a 5v5 zerker meta there it will be very interesting to see what people will come up with.

As I said: I personally like this kind of challenging pvp rather than having 5 chances to undo your mistakes. It forces you to think about using your dodges, using your defensive skills and it forces you to pay attention to what the enemy is doing. Every mistake will be heavily punished and you may only have one second chance.

It basically brings the tournament requirement into dayly pvp.

That is my gripe thoug, this isn’t challenging in my opinion. Instagibbing people =/= High risk high reward. In fact, Cele’s/Bunkers/Bruisers being around is what made it risky for Zerkers with the exception of Thief (because we all know they made it risky by a lot for glassers on other classes). It meant the risk was you could encounter a strong sustain build which gave you little margin for error. Now the damage is so high that you don’t need to think about error, you just overwhelm their defenses with your damage output, be it power or Condi.

Honestly, it is very early yes, BUT this isn’t somehow more challenging right now, it is just a mess, and I don’t foresee it being healthy for the competitive gamemode.

Hopefully Anet makes the right fixes/changes to classes to make the playing field more even.

The point is: once people understand when you are goint to overwhelm them they can evade it. And then they can counter you. And you will remember it. And then both of you will have to pay attention the next time.

It just needs some time. If everyone knows how to play zerker, everyone know the weak points of a zerker. And everyone knows how to hide those weak points.
This is, for what I’m hoping at least, will make fights more interesting once people get used to it. And who knows…maybe over time there will be a counter-meta developed.

You never know. That’s the beauty of PvP.

(Or maybe I just remember GW1 too much where you could always build up the craziest and most creative counters against anything that was meta right now.)

Entenkommando.5208:

The point is: once people understand when you are goint to overwhelm them they can evade it. And then they can counter you. And you will remember it. And then both of you will have to pay attention the next time.

It just needs some time. If everyone knows how to play zerker, everyone know the weak points of a zerker. And everyone knows how to hide those weak points.
This is, for what I’m hoping at least, will make fights more interesting once people get used to it. And who knows…maybe over time there will be a counter-meta developed.

You never know. That’s the beauty of PvP.

(Or maybe I just remember GW1 too much where you could always build up the craziest and most creative counters against anything that was meta right now.)

Well, I don’t think so and I generally main zerker. SD Engineer was what drew me to the class, Warrior Killshot I ran in games because I learned Zerker was the only fun way to play for me. And as much as I had always advocated it, this patch is too much imo. In fact, I am less familiar with Cele/Bunker style play in comparison to my Zerker experience.

And tbh GW1 had huge issues in that, if their build countered yours there wasn’t much room to outplay it. I find GW1 required more skill before the fight, GW2 requires more skill DURING. GW1 was more about building than performing in my 8 years on it.

I have to disagree with your viewpoint here, but in courtesy to your calm and collected manner of debate, I will bow out in an agree to disagree stance.

Kharr.5746:

Everyone is playing glass cannons, so yes, DPS seems high. If everyone was playing glass-cannons before the patch, it would have felt exactly the same.

Pre-patch everyone was playing tanky builds so they were doing less DPS and you could get away with running berserker stats without instantly dying. The reality is that soldier/cele/rabid tanky builds still destroy berserker builds in 1v1, and the meta will quickly shift back to those builds.

No, not everybody is playing glass cannon. In fact, most people will probably try to find a build similar to the one they were playing pre-patch.

The problem falls with the classes that were already berserker in the previous meta getting an increase in DPS, because all these classes already had better survivability built into them which forced other classes into tanky builds in the first place.

I get the fun of the high paced, burst meta but at this points its just spam all your skills and hope the other team dies before you do.

How are people so ignorant to the fact that since the patch is new, unranked nooblets are running pure burst builds. Nothing of what is happening right now is going to be the new meta, especially in the competitive scene. With that being said, the way it is now isn’t even that bad. In no game ever should someone fight head on knowing they are up against heavy burst. This is a team based pvp game. Right now I think everyone is on an even playing field (probably excluding skilled mesmers and anyone playing burn guard).

The problem is not the patch, it’s the player. Stop complaining that you can’t fight face-to-face against other bursty classes. Gain some map awareness, know who you are fighting, and learn to rotate. People forget that you don’t NEED to take on every fight. There are these amazing things called rotating, falling back, LOSing, repositioning, regrouping, etc.

Obviously the above things are incredibly hard to do in unranked because of the plethora of 1,1,1,1,1 lord rushing pve heroes, but once again, this is a team-based PvP game. Make some friends with good players you meet, join a guild, and play in an actual team composition before complaining about the patch. The patch isn’t broken, it just seems intense in unranked because 90% of people on your team are first timers. It’s too easy to get caught out in the open by yourself in a pug, so don’t pug. If you drop the ‘gotta fight every fight head on and cry after getting bursted down cause derrp’ mentality, you will find this patch to be amazing! Play smart, play with a team, and don’t make it harder for yourself.

PvP and PvE should never, NEVER have the same meta.

All I can say, with my limited experience this patch, is that pewpew rangers are terrifying if I don’t have my reflect up, guardians are doing horrific amounts of damage (enough to solo my entire downstate hp bar in less than a second, which is impressive) while maintaining solid defenses for some reason I haven’t looked into yet, mesmers are doing old fresh air levels of burst, but with pretty much no downtime, and everything else sort of just floats under the radar because of all the damage flying around.
Normally, the only thing I’m really afraid of as a staff ele is thieves, because of the massive surprise burst, but now that other classes can do the same exact thing they sort of fall under the radar a bit because there’s usually two or three bigger threats I have to make sure aren’t eating my face first.

Not to mention staff ele is a lot harder when your whole team is glass cannon.

Damage is not too high. The problem is that you Zerk players have never needed to really have a defense before. You could easily ignore condi and spike down a mesmer in seconds.

LEARN TO PLAY and stop whining.

Ithilwen.1529:

Damage is not too high. The problem is that you Zerk players have never needed to really have a defense before. You could easily ignore condi and spike down a mesmer in seconds.

LEARN TO PLAY and stop whining.

Learn to play, aren’t you the guy who wanted Clone Death saved because some people have slow reaction times?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Make-clone-death-baseline/first#post5015286

Yes I was. You are the ranger who told me to learn to play. I now return that to you in spades. LEARN TO PLAY.

As much as I like what you can do on mesmer now with the incredible burst coupled with the insane stealth duration, both condi and direct damage are completely out of hand.

I’m not playing PU, not much stealth here. I love the new condi mode. Finally, all those zerk wars and glassbow rangers have to consider defense.

Before, they could count on spiking you down and just ignored condi. That gravy train has run for a long time. I’m not surprised that they are bitter over the loss of easymode.

Its just fire and air sigils again. Check your death logs. For me i always die to mainly fire and air procs. They should be toned downed by about 20%

I imagine there might now not be an over the board reduction of damage, but they will rather try to balance every particular instance individually – this already started with power block in the last patch. Unfortunately, this probably means that pvp will be complete chaos in the coming couple of months. And of course the hot release will break any balancing achieved once again.

Tissitra.4153:

I imagine there might now not be an over the board reduction of damage, but they will rather try to balance every particular instance individually – this already started with power block in the last patch. Unfortunately, this probably means that pvp will be complete chaos in the coming couple of months. And of course the hot release will break any balancing achieved once again.

Why is that unfortunate. A new meta and chaos is fun. A stale meta is boring because it allows weaker players to dominate by just running meta comps and classes