Guild Wars 2

Quite frankly, im shocked. Mesmer was arguably the strongest class for 2 seasons. Looks like it’ll be for 3. Unbelievable.

You thought mesmers were stronger in PvP than Revenant or Scrapper or Reaper? Seriously?

Laserbolt.6731:

You thought mesmers were stronger in PvP than Revenant or Scrapper or Reaper? Seriously?

The pro league tier list is mesmer and scrapper in SS-tier. Mesmer for portal + moa + srong 1v1 and scrapper simply for its 1v2 capabilities.

Rev and reaper were top dmg dealers, but for pure conquest effectivness they were a tier below.

Basically if your not playing mesmer or rev moving forward your doomed

Expect to see 8 mesmer matches with the other 2 being revs.

Flumek.9043:

Laserbolt.6731:

You thought mesmers were stronger in PvP than Revenant or Scrapper or Reaper? Seriously?

The pro league tier list is mesmer and scrapper in SS-tier. Mesmer for portal + moa + srong 1v1 and scrapper simply for its 1v2 capabilities.

Rev and reaper were top dmg dealers, but for pure conquest effectivness they were a tier below.

watch esl and check what actually carries the team :

answer : tempest and rev

you know so called op moa is this lvl useful , partly due to the fact without moa , killing a tempest in teamfight is nearly impossible in a reasonable time .

its not like you call mes ss-tier ,it could suddenly be op.
but anyway have fun .

Everyone shouting doom and gloom.

Everyone is too focused on wanting Mesmer nerfed that they didn’t bother to look at the other changes to other professions.

Class comps aren’t going to change – just now, you won’t see Tage play DH again in tournaments.

The only thing about mes being strong is moa.

There is nothing that stands out outside of that. Any class’s condie build can do just as well as mesmer’s condie build.

Laserbolt.6731:

You thought mesmers were stronger in PvP than Revenant or Scrapper or Reaper? Seriously?

Yes. As others have told you, Mesmer is broken. It will now enjoy 3 seasons of being broken. Congrats.

style.6173:

Laserbolt.6731:

You thought mesmers were stronger in PvP than Revenant or Scrapper or Reaper? Seriously?

Yes. As others have told you, Mesmer is broken. It will now enjoy 3 seasons of being broken. Congrats.

no one needs to tell another one what is broken , just watch esl , thats solid fact about what is actually broken .

Exciton.8942:

The only thing about mes being strong is moa.

There is nothing that stands out outside of that. Any class’s condie build can do just as well as mesmer’s condie build.

+1
frankly before patch condi chrono was strong against other meta build especially rev .that’s where the “condi mes is strongest 1v1 spec” came from (remember condi chrono have plenty of weakness that other non meta spec could exploit to win ).
And now team comp is going to change with this patch .

things to be considered :

1.do team have enough dps to kill tempest in teamfight without moa in reasonable time now ,if yes then moa will be less important ,so is mes?

2.will the classes which counter condi mes see more play in the future like DH ?

3.could new amulet and changes bring new meta builds that can do well against current condi mes ?

4.will there be some new type of comp ,something like old 4 cele dd ele days ,which just on all three points ? that way portal and moa play will be less important

5.after years of cry for nerf from people who dont even read mes skill tooltips ,could they stop crying and finally play a mes .

If you think that moa is the only good thing about Mesmer you are not very involved in higher divisions team play.

1. Mesmer carries the team by controlling 2 points at the same time with portal plays.

2. Mesmer is the only class w/o hard counters (Meaning its the best 1v1 class in game).

3. Mesmer can Moa 2 persons at the same time, turning a fight into a 5v3 for 6 seconds.

Those 3 alone have been carrying teams for the whole season.

Go and watch last night ESL and see by yourself.

Condi mesmer was and still is very strong against power revs, scrappers, warriors and thieves.
Condi mesmer couldn’t and still cannot win a 1v1 against tempests, druids and necros.
Condi mesmer had and still has a fairly even matchup against DHs.

TL;DR Condi Mesmer counters 4 classes and gets countered by 4 classes. Nothing has changed with this patch.

Selya.5039:

Condi mesmer couldn’t and still cannot win a 1v1 against tempests, druids and necros.

Is this a joke? What kind of crappy mesmers have you been getting that can’t beat druid and tempest in 1v1s?

Selya.5039:

Condi mesmer was and still is very strong against power revs, scrappers, warriors and thieves.
Condi mesmer couldn’t and still cannot win a 1v1 against tempests, druids and necros.
Condi mesmer had and still has a fairly even matchup against DHs.

TL;DR Condi Mesmer counters 4 classes and gets countered by 4 classes. Nothing has changed with this patch.

Even if that were true, it’s almost as if there’s more to winning than 1v1s

Mesmer received “meta” status because it fell to them when other classes, warrior, thief, and guardian, couldn’t offer anything more useful as compared to moa/portal (not all Mesmers think current “meta” is meta it just has 2 utilities that make it slightly better than the alternatives). If you watch ESL, Mesmer has taken on the role that was usually reserved for thieves (decapping, scavenger kills) because of Mesmer’s advantages in movement (compared to warrior and guardian), especially team movement (portal – which is not a guarantee) – something thief just cannot do. Moa is useful (if it hits – how many moas in ESL?) in shutting 1 player down, usually in an attempt on a bunker/support (e.g. ele) to try to force decap/cap (moa is not a guarantee). Otherwise, Mesmer is still not right, neither is it dominant against other classes (necro, engi, druid and rev) but at least Mesmer didn’t get hit with the nerf bat – again.

Ruru.1302:

Selya.5039:

Condi mesmer was and still is very strong against power revs, scrappers, warriors and thieves.
Condi mesmer couldn’t and still cannot win a 1v1 against tempests, druids and necros.
Condi mesmer had and still has a fairly even matchup against DHs.

TL;DR Condi Mesmer counters 4 classes and gets countered by 4 classes. Nothing has changed with this patch.

Even if that were true, it’s almost as if there’s more to winning than 1v1s

True. Yet half the role of a mesmer is to win 1v1s (as seen by half the complaints in this thread). The other half is portal and moa. Again, nothing about portal nor moa has changed since last patch.

So, are mesmers still strong? Yep. Did they suddenly get much stronger? No.

Selya.5039:

Ruru.1302:

Selya.5039:

Condi mesmer was and still is very strong against power revs, scrappers, warriors and thieves.
Condi mesmer couldn’t and still cannot win a 1v1 against tempests, druids and necros.
Condi mesmer had and still has a fairly even matchup against DHs.

TL;DR Condi Mesmer counters 4 classes and gets countered by 4 classes. Nothing has changed with this patch.

Even if that were true, it’s almost as if there’s more to winning than 1v1s

True. Yet half the role of a mesmer is to win 1v1s (as seen by half the complaints in this thread). The other half is portal and moa. Again, nothing about portal nor moa has changed since last patch.

1. No. Mesmers win teamfights with Moa.

2. And that’s why we’re complaining, because NOTHING has been changed.

Soothsayer.9206:

Mesmer received “meta” status because it fell to them when other classes, warrior, thief, and guardian, couldn’t offer anything more useful as compared to moa/portal (not all Mesmers think current “meta” is meta it just has 2 utilities that make it slightly better than the alternatives). If you watch ESL, Mesmer has taken on the role that was usually reserved for thieves (decapping, scavenger kills) because of Mesmer’s advantages in movement (compared to warrior and guardian), especially team movement (portal – which is not a guarantee) – something thief just cannot do. Moa is useful (if it hits – how many moas in ESL?) in shutting 1 player down, usually in an attempt on a bunker/support (e.g. ele) to try to force decap/cap (moa is not a guarantee). Otherwise, Mesmer is still not right, neither is it dominant against other classes (necro, engi, druid and rev) but at least Mesmer didn’t get hit with the nerf bat – again.

lol wtf was that a serious question?

the answer is at least 5 moas were landed in just about every single match, which is asinine for a 3 minute cooldown elite skill that can be blocked.

Belial.9350:

Selya.5039:

Condi mesmer couldn’t and still cannot win a 1v1 against tempests, druids and necros.

Is this a joke? What kind of crappy mesmers have you been getting that can’t beat druid and tempest in 1v1s?

…You have been getting auramancers and druids that are losing to mesmers 1v1s? Especially auramancers?

Hell I can’t even remember the last time I lost to a condi mesmer on my tempest…

pvp balance team is ajoke

Mes was the strongest thing in the game before patch. Now its even stronger with alacrity buff and everything else is worse.

The buffs to condi mesmer are actually buffs to the scepter which no competitive mesmer is using.

Then, saying that condi mesmer is currently the strongest class is seriously wrong. If you look at ESL team comps, EVERY TEAM has elementalist, revenant and reaper (maybe 1 exception). Then teams usually have 2 out of mesmer, ranger and scrapper, many teams choosing not to have mesmer and still having success. Overall, 3 team fighters and 2 duelists which can still add something to a team fight (moa/portal, heal+snr, damage+ CC respectively). And while mesmer is indeed a strong duelist, ranger does a better job because it can sustain pretty much any 1v1 and decap/recap at the same time. So no, mesmer is not the best class, it is a strong one, but replaceable, and the changes won’t improve its status.

Darknicrofia.2604:

Soothsayer.9206:

Mesmer received “meta” status because it fell to them when other classes, warrior, thief, and guardian, couldn’t offer anything more useful as compared to moa/portal (not all Mesmers think current “meta” is meta it just has 2 utilities that make it slightly better than the alternatives). If you watch ESL, Mesmer has taken on the role that was usually reserved for thieves (decapping, scavenger kills) because of Mesmer’s advantages in movement (compared to warrior and guardian), especially team movement (portal – which is not a guarantee) – something thief just cannot do. Moa is useful (if it hits – how many moas in ESL?) in shutting 1 player down, usually in an attempt on a bunker/support (e.g. ele) to try to force decap/cap (moa is not a guarantee). Otherwise, Mesmer is still not right, neither is it dominant against other classes (necro, engi, druid and rev) but at least Mesmer didn’t get hit with the nerf bat – again.

lol wtf was that a serious question?

the answer is at least 5 moas were landed in just about every single match, which is asinine for a 3 minute cooldown elite skill that can be blocked.

Think about that for a second, even if you are correct and it is 5 (although I don’t recall seeing that many in 1 match – maybe over 2, perhaps even 3 matches but every single match?), considering there are 2 mesmers (1 on each team) with the potential of casting it 1 time every 75 seconds (with alacrity) or 2 times back to back (with continuum shift), 5 is really very low over the course of an entire match. Furthermore, Moa can be blocked, dodged, evaded, because it has a long cast time (1 second). Moa isn’t an auto hit, and in short, neither is it necessarily an auto kill. So then, Mesmers are not that “meta” op just because of potential moa.

Cyanon.1928:

If you think that moa is the only good thing about Mesmer you are not very involved in higher divisions team play.

1. Mesmer carries the team by controlling 2 points at the same time with portal plays.

2. Mesmer is the only class w/o hard counters (Meaning its the best 1v1 class in game).

3. Mesmer can Moa 2 persons at the same time, turning a fight into a 5v3 for 6 seconds.

Those 3 alone have been carrying teams for the whole season.

Go and watch last night ESL and see by yourself.

This ^^^^

Chrono is OP as it gets, all the mesmers are just scared of ever getting nerfed because they have always enjoyed stomping PVP

LOL just wait till season 3 and see how many FOTM players reroll from necro to Mesmer. You do realise that ANET doesnt balance around ESL exclusively since if they did Dragonhunter true shot and traps would not have been nerfed today.

They nerfed DH because the vast majority of players (suprise suprise) are not ESL material and as such get One Shot by DH.

Necro chill got nerfed for same reason. Necro not so popular at high end gameplay but at ruby and below they facerolled people.

Double Moa ROFLStomps people in lower tiers and ANET DID NOT nerf it so you can be sure to see quite a few more mesmers next season especially ruby and below.

S1. Bunk mes <- I understand your complaints.

Condi mes has little different than power mesmer of S1. (being that illusions makes up for the alacrity nerf) Apart from f3 and f4 being able to apply pressure, and having more sustain thanks to Mercenary ammy. Also now power shatter is even worse than S1 which still was not even than great pre alacrity nerf.

Majority of mesmer builds require landing shatters to do damage, if you cannot doge a shatter or play around the setup, you are objectively a bad player.

Know majority of those who say mes is OP? People who cannot doge shatters.

Thief hard counters power shatter, and necro counters condi shatter. But any build has the ability to win 1v1 by avoiding the damage even if moaed not to mention requires less to achieve decent spike or burst.

IF you are one who can see the big picture of A-nets “attempts” at team vs team 5v5 balance. Then I would not deny the strength that the utility provided from mesmers portal and moa.

But portal and moa alone has existed since the beginning of the game with loooong periods of time where mesmer was not a popular pick from comps. EVEN S2 Mesmer was only taken by pros because of class stacking rules.

So this boils down to Moa which is only viable now because we get 2 chances, or a reduced cooldown. As a second pick to class stacking.

But it’s OP?

Zuko.7132:

Mes was the strongest thing in the game before patch. Now its even stronger with alacrity buff and everything else is worse.

Mmm dat 0.25 second cd reduction so amazing and meta defining opieOP

Here we go – the amount of moaning will soon cause Anet to gut something of real importance.

Before crying doom and gloom, read the patch notes – the buffs are not going to break the game. It’s not like we’ve been given 10 stacks of torment per shatter or anything.

The “meta” (I hate that word) condi builds still used Sword over Scepter, so it’s understandable to see a buff or rather fixes to Scepter – it was (and to some extent still is) a clunky weapon to use.

Flow of Time should be reverted to 1s per illusion, following the double nerf of it from 1s to 0.75s and alacrity from 66 to 33%. This is hardly gamebreaking, and allows marginally better personal alacrity through shattering, though still nowhere near as powerful as when it was 66%.

The Wells kitten well needed some cooldown reductions, especially Precognition after they gutted it.

That’s it – there’s nothing else worth noting. Ok sure they didn’t stop CSplit from working with Elites – I hope they do do this and rebalance elites accordingly for core mesmer so it’s not OP with chrono.

But otherwise I fail to see the problem – nothing has significantly changed. This moaning is ridiculous.

Daishi.6027:

*But portal and moa alone has existed since the beginning of the game with loooong periods of time where mesmer was not a popular pick from comps. *

yeah let’s ignore the fact you can use it twice within short period of time now…

If you let moa land on you during a 1v1 then you kinda deserve it. You’re fighting a mesmer, its the #1 thing you should be looking out for. Also its functionally on the same cool down as CS because no one in their right mind would use it twice in a row and put it on cooldown for what could be a third of the match.

Would you guys be happy if they nerfed the duration to something like 5-8 seconds? Cause the CD issue won’t be fixed unless you make CS not work on elites/

I can see condi wars being a reliable counter to mesmers now w/ the buffed ardrenal health.

That said, I kind of wish they nerfed condi mes and buffed power mes just because I prefer the power mes playstyle. At the very least, I would have supported csplit not affecting elites, and then a global CD reduction on elites for core mes.

Spartacus.3192:

LOL just wait till season 3 and see how many FOTM players reroll from necro to Mesmer. You do realise that ANET doesnt balance around ESL exclusively since if they did Dragonhunter true shot and traps would not have been nerfed today.

They nerfed DH because the vast majority of players (suprise suprise) are not ESL material and as such get One Shot by DH.

Necro chill got nerfed for same reason. Necro not so popular at high end gameplay but at ruby and below they facerolled people.

Double Moa ROFLStomps people in lower tiers and ANET DID NOT nerf it so you can be sure to see quite a few more mesmers next season especially ruby and below.

I agree. Guardian did NOT need nerfs, except for their soft cc. They’re easy to kill or at the very least weaken when you learn to dodge their traps. IMO, the only blunder was the revenant. They were pretty much left untouched.

From a warrior.

I haven’t played too many matches yet, but have seen some very powerful spike damage mesmers and hybrid mesmers. I was happy to see a legitimate power build being played.

I am happy to see how this plays out. At this point it is only a opinion…in 3 weeks from now it will be an ‘informed’ opinion.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

I haven’t played too many matches yet, but have seen some very powerful spike damage mesmers and hybrid mesmers. I was happy to see a legitimate power build being played.

I am happy to see how this plays out. At this point it is only a opinion…in 3 weeks from now it will be an ‘informed’ opinion.

Yes, mesmers and also thieves could be a problem. I only say this because of the new amulets, demolisher and destroyer.

Thief can’s use either. No vitality.

Cynz.9437:

Daishi.6027:

*But portal and moa alone has existed since the beginning of the game with loooong periods of time where mesmer was not a popular pick from comps. *

yeah let’s ignore the fact you can use it twice within short period of time now…

Let’s not. I even pointed it out in my post.

Fact is double moa shouldn’t be the crux of the argument that “Mesmer is OP” especially when they have little else (portal) going for them.

The 1v1s are not so one sided as some players make it out to be, as anyone decent can avoid shatters and will either push mesmer off point making it useless giving the free cap, or will kill any overly aggressive over extending mesmer.

Moa 1v1 should be evaded, or at least anticipated so you can continue to play around the shatters. It’s not that hard.

fall of the planet of the necros XD, for real mesmers are super strong on condi + moa etc prob best class at moment

just wanna park it here condi mesmer 3v1 during ESL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHZinp7EET0

Cyanon.1928:

If you think that moa is the only good thing about Mesmer you are not very involved in higher divisions team play.

1. Mesmer carries the team by controlling 2 points at the same time with portal plays.

2. Mesmer is the only class w/o hard counters (Meaning its the best 1v1 class in game).

3. Mesmer can Moa 2 persons at the same time, turning a fight into a 5v3 for 6 seconds.

Those 3 alone have been carrying teams for the whole season.

Go and watch last night ESL and see by yourself.

mesmer has no hardcounter? thats bullkitten. lol. thief and druid eat mesmers easy. especially now with the new meta. thief have more cleanses and stuff. druids were easily able to kill mesmers before this patch, and its not any harder now.
the only problem before was that neither druid or thief were being played in that way. ok well druid was sometimes, but you get the idea. and then there was only necros, scrappers and revs left to kill mesmers.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

just wanna park it here condi mesmer 3v1 during ESL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHZinp7EET0

holy kitten. those guys were esl players? i mean they just got outplayed really hard, i wouldnt say this is because of mesmers. they were running around clueless as to what the mesmer was doing and barely even hit him at all. is this what esl players have come to? sad.

EDIT:
oh wait i think i understand. this is NA isnt it? makes perfect sense then. haha

Increase blurred frenzy cooldown by 2-3 seconds.
Only gain access to deja vu if you successfully block 3+ attacks, decrease deja vu activation window by 3s.
Distortion only applies if the shatter successfully hits a foe.
Mental defender icd: 12s
Activating a skill now ends any currently active effect of the skill.

Thats all we need. Some decrease in invulnerability uptime. Some counterplay.
I didnt take your condi application, I didnt take illusionary reversion or chronphantasma (even tho I gladly would).
I didnt even take the split moa, only the double moa.
Further adjustments may be made as needed.

Asrat.2645:

Increase blurred frenzy cooldown by 2-3 seconds.
Only gain access to deja vu if you successfully block 3+ attacks, decrease deja vu activation window by 3s.
Distortion only applies if the shatter successfully hits a foe.
Mental defender icd: 12s
Activating a skill now ends any currently active effect of the skill.

Thats all we need. Some decrease in invulnerability uptime. Some counterplay.
I didnt take your condi application, I didnt take illusionary reversion or chronphantasma (even tho I gladly would).
I didnt even take the split moa, only the double moa.
Further adjustments may be made as needed.

Another short sighted balance attempt that can’t look past this one build. Good job.

Just look at your Distortion idea. An F4 skill that doesnt activate when F4 is pushed? What are we? Barbarians from the days of Mesmer pre self counted as a clone, without the illusion line, bug effect and all? A history lesson is necessary here.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Asrat.2645:

Increase blurred frenzy cooldown by 2-3 seconds.
Only gain access to deja vu if you successfully block 3+ attacks, decrease deja vu activation window by 3s.
Distortion only applies if the shatter successfully hits a foe.
Mental defender icd: 12s
Activating a skill now ends any currently active effect of the skill.

Thats all we need. Some decrease in invulnerability uptime. Some counterplay.
I didnt take your condi application, I didnt take illusionary reversion or chronphantasma (even tho I gladly would).
I didnt even take the split moa, only the double moa.
Further adjustments may be made as needed.

Another short sighted balance attempt that can’t look past this one build. Good job.

Just look at your Distortion idea. An F4 skill that doesnt activate when F4 is pushed? What are we? Barbarians from the days of Mesmer pre self counted as a clone, without the illusion line, bug effect and all? A history lesson is necessary here.

This one build is the only thing that annoys me. Im totally fine with other mesmers.
And: On noes, we actually have to hit a skill to get the benefits from it. Unthinkable!

Asrat.2645:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Asrat.2645:

Increase blurred frenzy cooldown by 2-3 seconds.
Only gain access to deja vu if you successfully block 3+ attacks, decrease deja vu activation window by 3s.
Distortion only applies if the shatter successfully hits a foe.
Mental defender icd: 12s
Activating a skill now ends any currently active effect of the skill.

Thats all we need. Some decrease in invulnerability uptime. Some counterplay.
I didnt take your condi application, I didnt take illusionary reversion or chronphantasma (even tho I gladly would).
I didnt even take the split moa, only the double moa.
Further adjustments may be made as needed.

Another short sighted balance attempt that can’t look past this one build. Good job.

Just look at your Distortion idea. An F4 skill that doesnt activate when F4 is pushed? What are we? Barbarians from the days of Mesmer pre self counted as a clone, without the illusion line, bug effect and all? A history lesson is necessary here.

This one build is the only thing that annoys me. Im totally fine with other mesmers.
And: On noes, we actually have to hit a skill to get the benefits from it. Unthinkable!

Ross biddle obviously meant that you don’t consider builds like shatter when you made these uttely terribad suggestions. You misinterpreted it; your comment of “This one build is the only thing that annoys me. Im totally fine with other mesmers.” has no relevance.

Furthermore, an invulnerability skill that activates when you hit a skill? You tell me “unthinkable” so please go ahead and name all the other invulns the require you to hit an opponent. Ironically taking the condi application, illusionary reversion or chronphantasma as you pride yourself in doing, would be better than some of the things you proposed. The only thing that has any merit is phantasmal defender trait cd and shield block nerf.

musu.9205:

2.will the classes which counter condi mes see more play in the future like DH ?

Guardian/DH is dead. Was already a corpse in the Pro League, but now the stink from his dead body reachs every game mode. Utterly finished.

Selya.5039:

Belial.9350:

Selya.5039:

Condi mesmer couldn’t and still cannot win a 1v1 against tempests, druids and necros.

Is this a joke? What kind of crappy mesmers have you been getting that can’t beat druid and tempest in 1v1s?

…You have been getting auramancers and druids that are losing to mesmers 1v1s? Especially auramancers?

Hell I can’t even remember the last time I lost to a condi mesmer on my tempest…

Ele dueling a mesm is already an advantage for the mesm team. Theres no need for the mesm to win the duel. Mesms actually win necros ez. The only dueler worth dueling a mesm is a druid, which doesnt carry tfs/rotations by itself.

Quadox.7834:

Asrat.2645:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Asrat.2645:

Increase blurred frenzy cooldown by 2-3 seconds.
Only gain access to deja vu if you successfully block 3+ attacks, decrease deja vu activation window by 3s.
Distortion only applies if the shatter successfully hits a foe.
Mental defender icd: 12s
Activating a skill now ends any currently active effect of the skill.

Thats all we need. Some decrease in invulnerability uptime. Some counterplay.
I didnt take your condi application, I didnt take illusionary reversion or chronphantasma (even tho I gladly would).
I didnt even take the split moa, only the double moa.
Further adjustments may be made as needed.

Another short sighted balance attempt that can’t look past this one build. Good job.

Just look at your Distortion idea. An F4 skill that doesnt activate when F4 is pushed? What are we? Barbarians from the days of Mesmer pre self counted as a clone, without the illusion line, bug effect and all? A history lesson is necessary here.

This one build is the only thing that annoys me. Im totally fine with other mesmers.
And: On noes, we actually have to hit a skill to get the benefits from it. Unthinkable!

Ross biddle obviously meant that you don’t consider builds like shatter when you made these uttely terribad suggestions. You misinterpreted it; your comment of “This one build is the only thing that annoys me. Im totally fine with other mesmers.” has no relevance.

Furthermore, an invulnerability skill that activates when you hit a skill? You tell me “unthinkable” so please go ahead and name all the other invulns the require you to hit an opponent. Ironically taking the condi application, illusionary reversion or chronphantasma as you pride yourself in doing, would be better than some of the things you proposed. The only thing that has any merit is phantasmal defender trait cd and shield block nerf.

Ok, you got a point here.
So. Do you think 3 seconds of invulnerability on demand, instant recharge on demand and theoretically usable with continuum split is a good idea?
Invulnerability should be the very rarest form of damage denial to get.
So lets just say, ok. My idea was a dumb one. Fine.
What would you do? Leave the skill unchanged? Focus the nerfs on conditions instead of power?
And I dont see a problem with my last suggestion. The obvious way to go would be to make cs not affect elites. But if they wanted that, they would have done it with this patch. It was so obvious a choice, that only a concious decision can explain why the change didnt happen.
But we all agree (i think) that split moa or at least double moa has to go.

I don’t think anyone here wants to see Mesmer written off from pvp.

The fact is that if you open with double shatter, throw a few big attacks etc. its not very hard to force your opponent to dodge twice/use their block skills before attempting to moa them, and you have two chances.

Any good Mesmer will have no problem landing their Moa in 1v1, please don’t try to tell me its hard to land the moa….

The ONLY change I wanted to see to Mesmer this season was a reduction in the duration of signet of humility, that’s it. 10 seconds is a very long time, I think it should be 6. 10 seconds is enough time to obliterate that player, mesmers have enough CC and immobilize for the moa 2 and 5 skills to be useless over a 10 second period, with 6 seconds it gives the moa’d player enough time to kite.

And with increased alacrity up-time and potential double moa, the long cooldown will not be any kind of a factor for any good mesmer. If you land moa the first time, then you can revert back and skip the cooldown. If it takes you two times to land it, then you can rely on your alacrity to decrease the cooldown by 33%…

all these classes op for 3 seasons while watch warrior be useless for the third one