Guild Wars 2

I made a post about why this is not p2w, but moderators deleted it, so frick it. THIS GAME IS P2W, BECAUSE MODERATORS SAID SO.

I am glad to announce the next GW2 expansion:

Guild Wars 2: War of the Mist

This new expansion has its focus on the PvP elements of Guild Wars 2. Highlights of the new expansion:

• Elite gear
  Elite gear will feature a new system, which will decrease different types of damage more efficiently

• Elite weapon
  These weapon will bring swapable alternative versions of the current weapon skills. They are all kinda the same skills renamed with an unexplicable 1000% damage modifier. But that’s totally not pay to win or unbalance as we made it part of the expansion, instead of the cash shop!

• New commander upgrade
  As for our WvW loving community, we increased the usefulness of your commander tag with new passive abilities as part of the expansion. Level up the new, and exclusive War Master mastery line to unlock stat boosting auras and the ultimate upgrade of becoming a walking waypoint! Totally fine, as it is part of the expansion.

• New maps. Alot of new maps, featuring new mechanics from PvE like layline gliding or bouncing mushroom. These maps will be made available for everyone (though you still need the masteries to use the special mechanics)

That and more is coming in 2016 as part of the latest expansion for 44,99€. But that’s not all. We also offer a digital deluxe edition for 59.99€ which adds the exclusive Celestial Amulet for you to choose in sPvP.

Kirk.3086:

Just say that people, who bought GW2 and don’t buy HoT doesn’t get theirs elite specialisations for standard classes.
So, yeah, there are really p2w for them, cos pvp closed for them…

So buying hot will automatically makes you win games??. Get your asinine logic out of here dude, every class has a STRONG PRE HOT build I can’t emphasize that enough.

online.1278:

i don’t understand company trying to forcely starts esports tournament as the game’s current state is p2w. f2p user whoever watch that tournament will think the game is p2w already thus they consider either quit the game or pay HoT, but i think there will be more quitter than payer since they can simply change their main game to BnS or Tera or whatever, very easily since those games are f2p and not p2w.

It is just kittening natural logic.

Now you are one deranged fellow my friend!! With that logic. I wonder if your wife manage the finance in your house otherwise your family is in trouble.

Saiyan.1704:

“Technically every MMORPG in the history of ever was ‘Pay to Win’ due to the newly added Levels, Gear, Etc.. from expansions.”

Some one already said it… it’s not Pay to Win if it’s new content from an expansion. It’s expected.

GW2 is not pay to win… definitely not like other TRUE P2W games out there. How is this even an argument?

New content doesn’t always have to equate to more power. Anet promised SIDEgrades, not upgrades. New ways to play =/= power creep. Such a simple concept, my man.

Arenanet is actually very good about maintaining the ability to buy progession. Nothing in their gem store sticks out as a huge advantage through monetary purchase.

Anyone who complains about an expansion as p2w is an idiot and needs to go find a better job or you shouldn’t be wasting time gaming if you can’t save $30 for a hobby. Gg

I may have my gripes with the class balance, but trying to accuse ANet of pay-to-win is ridiculous. To have an expansion that didn’t increase the level cap and didn’t make all your gear obsolete is awesome! ANet deserves some serious praise for that. And look at the Gem store … all QoL or fun stuff. Almost nothing that gives an advantage in power. Give it a rest and stop whining.

It seems nobody remembers anet’s promise. Oh well, boys. By the way, bringing up armor or level cap isn’t even remotely viable in…..sPvP. We’re still all on the same page in this regard, no?

SlayerSixx.5763:

It seems nobody remembers anet’s promise. Oh well, boys. By the way, bringing up armor or level cap isn’t even remotely viable in…..sPvP. We’re still all on the same page in this regard, no?

Its funny the same people calling gw2 p2w are asking for core nerfs btw old builds are still viable they just arent in the meta because the players dictate the meta and those people are enjoying the expansion and making use of the specialisations that were added to each class either buy the expansion or stop complaining instead of using bad/ learn to play comments.

Certain core specs ARE strong, but (with the exception of berserker) all of elites are almost direct upgrades to their respective classes.

There actually isn’t much room for discussion. GW2 sPvP has become “Pay 2 Win”.

To be competitive you need access to all builds. Even if you don’t want to play (main) a specific build, you still need to learn or rather figure out it’s strengths and weaknesses.

Hence a F2P account has a clear disadvantage in sPvP. From which follows you need to buy the HoT expansion for 50 Euro / Dollar.

But even with HoT not every Amulet and Rune is automatically unlocked (like it was at launch). That’s 25 runes at 5g each + 7 amulets at 10g each = 195g ~= 1636 gems ~= 20 Euro / Dollar. Pretty much any IRL job will net you the gold (a LOT) faster than playing the game. Or to put it differently, you can already practice while others are still grinding And now imagine you want to accumulate those 195 gold on a F2P account with all those TP restrictions in place.

More and more of the “good stuff” is either available only from the gem/cash shop or alternatively from the shop for significantly less IRL than in-game time/effort. In-game loot is a burden cluttering up your inventory (no problem, you can buy more bag slots with gems) and is only worth a few copper (don’t confuse the TP as a gold source, it’s a sink).

This used to be different, but ANet has chosen to systematically devalue our in-game time in order to make more money from the shop.

Just learn to play, these p2w threads just get sadder and sadder with OPs and people advocating it is p2w Hot is still buy to play and core game is f2p yes some specialications have better synergy with their core lines but most people advocating it is just learn 2 to dodge use stab and clear condi’s focus target and try not to get ganked by a thief

xlion.3065:

There actually isn’t much room for discussion. GW2 sPvP has become “Pay 2 Win”.

To be competitive you need access to all builds. Even if you don’t want to play (main) a specific build, you still need to learn or rather figure out it’s strengths and weaknesses.

Hence a F2P account has a clear disadvantage in sPvP. From which follows you need to buy the HoT expansion for 50 Euro / Dollar.

But even with HoT not every Amulet and Rune is automatically unlocked (like it was at launch). That’s 25 runes at 5g each + 7 amulets at 10g each = 195g ~= 1636 gems ~= 20 Euro / Dollar. Pretty much any IRL job will net you the gold (a LOT) faster than playing the game. Or to put it differently, you can already practice while others are still grinding And now imagine you want to accumulate those 195 gold on a F2P account with all those TP restrictions in place.

More and more of the “good stuff” is either available only from the gem/cash shop or alternatively from the shop for significantly less IRL than in-game time/effort. In-game loot is a burden cluttering up your inventory (no problem, you can buy more bag slots with gems) and is only worth a few copper (don’t confuse the TP as a gold source, it’s a sink).

This used to be different, but ANet has chosen to systematically devalue our in-game time in order to make more money from the shop.

Quality of life while yes is a cash grab its not pay to plz go check up on pay to win before posting unrelated stuff

Xenesis.6389:

This argument again.

Let’s get some things straight here. Buying an expansion is not considered “pay 2 win”, it’s pay to progress,

Interesting. Unlocking elite specs by buying the game is progression. Even if the journey is
nil.

daggerhands.9634:

Quality of life while yes is a cash grab its not pay to plz go check up on pay to win before posting unrelated stuff

The PvP related “good stuff” I mentioned in the beginning is clearly more than “quality of life”. I added the second part to show the general principle:

Add attractive content to a F2P game that is only available for cash or a LOT more efficient to get with cash. The question is, where does this stop? Here are 3 examples of where I think greed went too far.

1. Make the more powerful elite specializations not available in F2P, but let the F2P players match up against “paying customers”

2. Require unlock of a number of Runes, Amulets and Sigils that are essential for certain builds and make the unlock significantly more time efficient when using cash.

3. Pretty much all (non-cosmetic) quality of life features that let you play the game more time efficient are only available for gems and — guess what — gems are a LOT more time efficient to get with cash.

At launch your chance to win in PvP did only depend on your skill. Nothing was locked behind a grind or cash wall. ANet could have made the elite specs available in PvP for F2P accounts. They could have refrained from locking certain Runes, Sigils and Amulets, but they decided to go for the cash grab in PvP.

At launch “bank tabs” were pretty much the only thing one “needed” to buy from the shop to get a significant improvement of your game experience. Look where we are today … I don’t want to miss my unlimited harvesting tools, my Salvage-o-Matic and my shared inventory slots,… They could have added more items like the 250 use Mystic Salvage Kit or even make all salvage and harvesting tools unlimited and add shared inventory slots for free. But again they decided to go for the cash grab.

The same principle in all 3 cases. 1+2 are clearly “Pay and/or grind to Win” and in a certain way 3, too. Or do you believe that many of the top PvE players are playing on a “basic account”.

daggerhands.9634:

SlayerSixx.5763:

It seems nobody remembers anet’s promise. Oh well, boys. By the way, bringing up armor or level cap isn’t even remotely viable in…..sPvP. We’re still all on the same page in this regard, no?

Its funny the same people calling gw2 p2w are asking for core nerfs btw old builds are still viable they just arent in the meta because the players dictate the meta and those people are enjoying the expansion and making use of the specialisations that were added to each class either buy the expansion or stop complaining instead of using bad/ learn to play comments.

Yeah, yeah, keep saying that and maybe someone will believe it… that is, until they will be able to see the difference on their own. Because, no matter what you try to claim, old builds are inferior to new ones.
There’s no level playing field between core and Hot players.

it’s not p2w its b2p and you are playing a limited version for free and are complaining, bcuz the rest of us that started before you had to buy the game to play it unlike you.

that being said the issue is that eletes were not what anet promised. ANET promised them to be builds or extensions of base specs that were supposed to offer diversity and not be stronger than base. Instead they were upgrades.

be lucky you don’t have to buy the game twice like we did.

Warlord.9074:

it’s not p2w its b2p and you are playing a limited version for free and are complaining, bcuz the rest of us that started before you had to buy the game to play it unlike you.

that being said the issue is that eletes were not what anet promised. ANET promised them to be builds or extensions of base specs that were supposed to offer diversity and not be stronger than base. Instead they were upgrades.

be lucky you don’t have to buy the game twice like we did.

What do you say about players like me, who have the expansion, and still complain that the elite specs are pay 2 win?

What is your argument for me?

Varonth.5830:

Warlord.9074:

it’s not p2w its b2p and you are playing a limited version for free and are complaining, bcuz the rest of us that started before you had to buy the game to play it unlike you.

that being said the issue is that eletes were not what anet promised. ANET promised them to be builds or extensions of base specs that were supposed to offer diversity and not be stronger than base. Instead they were upgrades.

be lucky you don’t have to buy the game twice like we did.

What do you say about players like me, who have the expansion, and still complain that the elite specs are pay 2 win?

What is your argument for me?

Id say thats like we are into racing and both our cars are on the same level and you thing that a honda civic with the only modifications it has are stickers that say fast should be able to compete with our Nissan GTRs. We let the honda owner into our car club becasue its a community, Id say you try to play devils advocate just for the sake or arguing when you have no point.

Warlord.9074:

Varonth.5830:

Warlord.9074:

it’s not p2w its b2p and you are playing a limited version for free and are complaining, bcuz the rest of us that started before you had to buy the game to play it unlike you.

that being said the issue is that eletes were not what anet promised. ANET promised them to be builds or extensions of base specs that were supposed to offer diversity and not be stronger than base. Instead they were upgrades.

be lucky you don’t have to buy the game twice like we did.

What do you say about players like me, who have the expansion, and still complain that the elite specs are pay 2 win?

What is your argument for me?

Id say thats like we are into racing and both our cars are on the same level and you thing that a honda civic with the only modifications it has are stickers that say fast should be able to compete with our Nissan GTRs. We let the honda owner into our car club becasue its a community, Id say you try to play devils advocate just for the sake or arguing when you have no point.

That made zero sense.

Warlord.9074:

Varonth.5830:

Warlord.9074:

it’s not p2w its b2p and you are playing a limited version for free and are complaining, bcuz the rest of us that started before you had to buy the game to play it unlike you.

that being said the issue is that eletes were not what anet promised. ANET promised them to be builds or extensions of base specs that were supposed to offer diversity and not be stronger than base. Instead they were upgrades.

be lucky you don’t have to buy the game twice like we did.

What do you say about players like me, who have the expansion, and still complain that the elite specs are pay 2 win?

What is your argument for me?

Id say thats like we are into racing and both our cars are on the same level and you thing that a honda civic with the only modifications it has are stickers that say fast should be able to compete with our Nissan GTRs. We let the honda owner into our car club becasue its a community, Id say you try to play devils advocate just for the sake or arguing when you have no point.

No, that does not line up. sPvP was made with the intention to be played on an even playing field. They opened the game up for free players, but that shouldn’t change the definition of sPvP which still is that everyone is on an even powerlevel. Except they aren’t.

You are arguing that it is fine because the elite specs are part of an expansion.

Just look up my previous post to show how that “It’s an expansion” argument falls apart. Tell me, is everything I wrote in that previous post fine, because as I wrote there, it’s all part of an expansion?

Sadly the best way of showing players like you how incredible idiotic ANets move was requires ANet do change something. Just imagine that in the future you will only get paired into matches with your teammates all being free 2 play accounts and your enemies all having the expansion. You will not win. Not once.

To bring back your idiotic comparison. We are racing 5 vs. 5. You and me, and everyone on my team is driving one of those Nissan GTR. Everyone else on your team is driving their Honda. Have fun.

Wasn’t Arenanet moto" we don’t do what other mmorpg do , we design our own game" ?

Cause when I see DUDE IT’S A MMO XPAC = WIN , NO XPACK = LOSE.
I’m trying to find the : " we don’t do what other mmorpg do , we design our own game"

Like some said if they want to be ESL, evenplay ground is the way to go , if they wan’t to be a casual mmo i’d like them to tell the pvp comunity so we can move on.

I don’t care what anet said or didn’t say if the game is like buying a license to windows, I don’t wan’t people on evaluation versions to get it for free without activation,

runeblade.7514:

Warlord.9074:

Varonth.5830:

Warlord.9074:

it’s not p2w its b2p and you are playing a limited version for free and are complaining, bcuz the rest of us that started before you had to buy the game to play it unlike you.

that being said the issue is that eletes were not what anet promised. ANET promised them to be builds or extensions of base specs that were supposed to offer diversity and not be stronger than base. Instead they were upgrades.

be lucky you don’t have to buy the game twice like we did.

What do you say about players like me, who have the expansion, and still complain that the elite specs are pay 2 win?

What is your argument for me?

Id say thats like we are into racing and both our cars are on the same level and you thing that a honda civic with the only modifications it has are stickers that say fast should be able to compete with our Nissan GTRs. We let the honda owner into our car club becasue its a community, Id say you try to play devils advocate just for the sake or arguing when you have no point.

That made zero sense.

This.

@people thinking I don’t have the xpac….

I do. I was also playing since release. I just don’t enjoy the power creep brought about by the xpac and its practically impossible to get friends to try the game since nobody wants to feel like they’ve been forced to pay to have fun. Its alright though guys, keep playing the role of ANets white knights. Its obvious they don’t read/care for the forums when there are plenty more people like you who are OK with this.

this is the summery of the entire thread.

I want something for free that other people paid for. Because my free version isn’t as good as the paid version, I am going to make a thread and argue that I deserve to have something for free that others paid for because I am a a member of the entitlement generation.

I will use ANETs old TOS as my talking points that is no longer valid for free users while ignoring the fact that they have every right to change that TOS anytime they want.

I agreed to the current TOS so I don’t really have any case to make my point thanks.

Warlord.9074:

this is the summery of the entire thread.

I want something for free that other people paid for. Because my free version isn’t as good as the paid version, I am going to make a thread and argue that I deserve to have something for free that others paid for because I am a a member of the entitlement generation.

I will use ANETs old TOS as my talking points that is no longer valid for free users while ignoring the fact that they have every right to change that TOS anytime they want.

I agreed to the current TOS so I don’t really have any case to make my point thanks.

or or or or or…..

Have core be on par with elites? Nobody is asking for free elites (although they should be in sPvP). This thread (and others like it) wouldn’t exist if a majority of good core specs could compete with a majority of the good elites.

Warlord.9074:

this is the summery of the entire thread.

I want something for free that other people paid for. Because my free version isn’t as good as the paid version, I am going to make a thread and argue that I deserve to have something for free that others paid for because I am a a member of the entitlement generation.

I will use ANETs old TOS as my talking points that is no longer valid for free users while ignoring the fact that they have every right to change that TOS anytime they want.

I agreed to the current TOS so I don’t really have any case to make my point thanks.

I have the expac and I want sPvP players to have elite specs. I bet most people arguing for it do have the expac as well.

It’s possible the current elite specs will be released for free when we get new elite specs, or when the next expansion comes out. Until then, ANet is almost certainly not going to change their accessibility.

Also, I don’t ever remember people playing World of Warcraft complaining about this sort of argument; everyone just accepted that new expansions would come out, and you’d have to pay money to remain on the same playing field. It’s been a few years, and players of this game have gotten used to getting every update for free with no monthly subscription fee… that’s not a sustainable business model for an MMO, however.

Mal.1670:

Also, I don’t ever remember people playing World of Warcraft complaining about this sort of argument; everyone just accepted that new expansions would come out, and you’d have to pay money to remain on the same playing field.

Well, not everyone. Many of those tired of hamster wheels moved to GW2, after all.

Mal.1670:

It’s been a few years, and players of this game have gotten used to getting every update for free with no monthly subscription fee… that’s not a sustainable business model for an MMO, however.

The poblem lies not in elite specs not being accessible to core players – that itself is perfectly understandable. The problem is that those specs were supposed to be on the same playing field as the core ones (that was stated developer intention, if you can’t remember), but aren’t. And not by a small margin.

Warlord.9074:

I don’t care what anet said or didn’t say if the game is like buying a license to windows, I don’t wan’t people on evaluation versions to get it for free without activation,

This … some people just want everything for free; granted the elite specs have a 1.5% advantage over core, imo it all come down to skill. Every core specs is as strong as elite specs.

runeblade.7514:

Warlord.9074:

this is the summery of the entire thread.

I want something for free that other people paid for. Because my free version isn’t as good as the paid version, I am going to make a thread and argue that I deserve to have something for free that others paid for because I am a a member of the entitlement generation.

I will use ANETs old TOS as my talking points that is no longer valid for free users while ignoring the fact that they have every right to change that TOS anytime they want.

I agreed to the current TOS so I don’t really have any case to make my point thanks.

I have the expac and I want sPvP players to have elite specs. I bet most people arguing for it do have the expac as well.

Then you are being very ungrateful. How is Anet going to make any money if the elite specs were free for f2p account as well?? Dude,Anet is a business . Consider both sides for godsake, all the specs bring is build diversity otherwise core and elite specs are tantamount to one another.

runeblade.7514:

Warlord.9074:

this is the summery of the entire thread.

I want something for free that other people paid for. Because my free version isn’t as good as the paid version, I am going to make a thread and argue that I deserve to have something for free that others paid for because I am a a member of the entitlement generation.

I will use ANETs old TOS as my talking points that is no longer valid for free users while ignoring the fact that they have every right to change that TOS anytime they want.

I agreed to the current TOS so I don’t really have any case to make my point thanks.

I have the expac and I want sPvP players to have elite specs. I bet most people arguing for it do have the expac as well.

Then you are being very ungrateful. How is Anet going to make any money if the elite specs were free for f2p account as well?? Dude,Anet is a business . Consider both sides for godsake, all the specs bring is build diversity otherwise core and elite specs are tantamount to one another.

Fivedawgs.4267:

runeblade.7514:

Warlord.9074:

this is the summery of the entire thread.

I want something for free that other people paid for. Because my free version isn’t as good as the paid version, I am going to make a thread and argue that I deserve to have something for free that others paid for because I am a a member of the entitlement generation.

I will use ANETs old TOS as my talking points that is no longer valid for free users while ignoring the fact that they have every right to change that TOS anytime they want.

I agreed to the current TOS so I don’t really have any case to make my point thanks.

I have the expac and I want sPvP players to have elite specs. I bet most people arguing for it do have the expac as well.

Then you are being very ungrateful. How is Anet going to make any money if the elite specs were free for f2p account as well?? Dude,Anet is a business . Consider both sides for godsake, all the specs bring is build diversity otherwise core and elite specs are tantamount to one another.

Cosmetics. Not even random chest crap like the Black Lion Scrap crap.

See Path of Exile. And their updates have alot more content than ANets.

Here is the the next update:

https://www.pathofexile.com/ascendancy

It includes something which is basically like elite specs for GW2. Free for everyone. Everything in that expansion will be free for everyone. Games can work without predatory business practices. And they can do good, or even better than those that fall back to the crappy business model as ANet does.

runeblade.7514:

Warlord.9074:

this is the summery of the entire thread.

I want something for free that other people paid for. Because my free version isn’t as good as the paid version, I am going to make a thread and argue that I deserve to have something for free that others paid for because I am a a member of the entitlement generation.

I will use ANETs old TOS as my talking points that is no longer valid for free users while ignoring the fact that they have every right to change that TOS anytime they want.

I agreed to the current TOS so I don’t really have any case to make my point thanks.

I have the expac and I want sPvP players to have elite specs. I bet most people arguing for it do have the expac as well.

I’ve noticed everyone arguing here that its unfair on those not using HoT actually have HoT, is this just a case of complaints for complaints sake? If no one complaining here is actually a Core game owner (no HoT) then maybe there isn’t a big problem (to the point that no one experiencing the difference has complained, or HoT has been bought by most people and actually is very popular – either one kinda deflates the arguments).

Don’t complain on behalf of other people, they can do it themselves, I even asked earlier “if anyone here doesn’t have HoT could they make themselves known” and got zero response. There doesn’t seem to be any complaint from those people who actually don’t have HoT (I think this is because the only people complaining are those who have disliked the exp and are actually looking for any thread which makes the exp look bad – check the names and other threads bashing HoT).

Varonth.5830:

Fivedawgs.4267:

runeblade.7514:

Warlord.9074:

this is the summery of the entire thread.

I want something for free that other people paid for. Because my free version isn’t as good as the paid version, I am going to make a thread and argue that I deserve to have something for free that others paid for because I am a a member of the entitlement generation.

I will use ANETs old TOS as my talking points that is no longer valid for free users while ignoring the fact that they have every right to change that TOS anytime they want.

I agreed to the current TOS so I don’t really have any case to make my point thanks.

I have the expac and I want sPvP players to have elite specs. I bet most people arguing for it do have the expac as well.

Then you are being very ungrateful. How is Anet going to make any money if the elite specs were free for f2p account as well?? Dude,Anet is a business . Consider both sides for godsake, all the specs bring is build diversity otherwise core and elite specs are tantamount to one another.

Cosmetics. Not even random chest crap like the Black Lion Scrap crap.

See Path of Exile. And their updates have alot more content than ANets.

Here is the the next update:

https://www.pathofexile.com/ascendancy

It includes something which is basically like elite specs for GW2. Free for everyone. Everything in that expansion will be free for everyone. Games can work without predatory business practices. And they can do good, or even better than those that fall back to the crappy business model as ANet does.

Great for them. I just wouldn’t want Anrt to adopt their busses model because clearly it sucks. Whatever the rational behind it is. And I wouldn’t call f2p the entire game predatory busines; name a game which has being more lenient than Anet on their F2p model. And just look at path of exile graphics ?? Do they even have devs?? It’s like the game was designed by one person.

Coulter.2315:

runeblade.7514:

Warlord.9074:

this is the summery of the entire thread.

I want something for free that other people paid for. Because my free version isn’t as good as the paid version, I am going to make a thread and argue that I deserve to have something for free that others paid for because I am a a member of the entitlement generation.

I will use ANETs old TOS as my talking points that is no longer valid for free users while ignoring the fact that they have every right to change that TOS anytime they want.

I agreed to the current TOS so I don’t really have any case to make my point thanks.

I have the expac and I want sPvP players to have elite specs. I bet most people arguing for it do have the expac as well.

I’ve noticed everyone arguing here that its unfair on those not using HoT actually have HoT, is this just a case of complaints for complaints sake? If no one complaining here is actually a Core game owner (no HoT) then maybe there isn’t a big problem (to the point that no one experiencing the difference has complained, or HoT has been bought by most people and actually is very popular – either one kinda deflates the arguments).

Don’t complain on behalf of other people, they can do it themselves, I even asked earlier “if anyone here doesn’t have HoT could they make themselves known” and got zero response. There doesn’t seem to be any complaint from those people who actually don’t have HoT (I think this is because the only people complaining are those who have disliked the exp and are actually looking for any thread which makes the exp look bad – check the names and other threads bashing HoT).

So I am not allowed to complain when I get teammates without HoT who are not going to help me during PvP because they don’t stand a chance against elite specs?

Varonth.5830:

Coulter.2315:

runeblade.7514:

Warlord.9074:

this is the summery of the entire thread.

I want something for free that other people paid for. Because my free version isn’t as good as the paid version, I am going to make a thread and argue that I deserve to have something for free that others paid for because I am a a member of the entitlement generation.

I will use ANETs old TOS as my talking points that is no longer valid for free users while ignoring the fact that they have every right to change that TOS anytime they want.

I agreed to the current TOS so I don’t really have any case to make my point thanks.

I have the expac and I want sPvP players to have elite specs. I bet most people arguing for it do have the expac as well.

I’ve noticed everyone arguing here that its unfair on those not using HoT actually have HoT, is this just a case of complaints for complaints sake? If no one complaining here is actually a Core game owner (no HoT) then maybe there isn’t a big problem (to the point that no one experiencing the difference has complained, or HoT has been bought by most people and actually is very popular – either one kinda deflates the arguments).

Don’t complain on behalf of other people, they can do it themselves, I even asked earlier “if anyone here doesn’t have HoT could they make themselves known” and got zero response. There doesn’t seem to be any complaint from those people who actually don’t have HoT (I think this is because the only people complaining are those who have disliked the exp and are actually looking for any thread which makes the exp look bad – check the names and other threads bashing HoT).

So I am not allowed to complain when I get teammates without HoT who are not going to help me during PvP because they don’t stand a chance against elite specs?

“They don’t stand a chance against elite specs " that’s not true. If anything your friend don’t have the skill to play at the same level as you. Do not blame your friends low skill or lack thero on HOT. Would you expect a new lol player to be competitive against a silver gold or Plat players?? Same rules apply for gw2. Elite specs are not the problem. Skills are.

In the specific case of GW2 we all know that you can use only one elite specialization, which means the second expansion elite spec won’t be more powerful than current elite specs, because otherwise the entire HoT progression will be null and void. So this entire conversation won’t be around when the second expansion hits.

I think the best thing they could do is take one core spec line and turn it into elite. That way they could make the core line powerful enough to compare to elites. Of course that had to be done before HoT was released as any such change now would cause more problems than it can solve. Is it too late now? Maybe. But making one of the core specs work like an elite would’ve been the best option.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Varonth.5830:

Coulter.2315:

runeblade.7514:

Warlord.9074:

this is the summery of the entire thread.

I want something for free that other people paid for. Because my free version isn’t as good as the paid version, I am going to make a thread and argue that I deserve to have something for free that others paid for because I am a a member of the entitlement generation.

I will use ANETs old TOS as my talking points that is no longer valid for free users while ignoring the fact that they have every right to change that TOS anytime they want.

I agreed to the current TOS so I don’t really have any case to make my point thanks.

I have the expac and I want sPvP players to have elite specs. I bet most people arguing for it do have the expac as well.

I’ve noticed everyone arguing here that its unfair on those not using HoT actually have HoT, is this just a case of complaints for complaints sake? If no one complaining here is actually a Core game owner (no HoT) then maybe there isn’t a big problem (to the point that no one experiencing the difference has complained, or HoT has been bought by most people and actually is very popular – either one kinda deflates the arguments).

Don’t complain on behalf of other people, they can do it themselves, I even asked earlier “if anyone here doesn’t have HoT could they make themselves known” and got zero response. There doesn’t seem to be any complaint from those people who actually don’t have HoT (I think this is because the only people complaining are those who have disliked the exp and are actually looking for any thread which makes the exp look bad – check the names and other threads bashing HoT).

So I am not allowed to complain when I get teammates without HoT who are not going to help me during PvP because they don’t stand a chance against elite specs?

“They don’t stand a chance against elite specs " that’s not true. If anything your friend don’t have the skill to play at the same level as you. Do not blame your friends low skill or lack thero on HOT. Would you expect a new lol player to be competitive against a silver gold or Plat players?? Same rules apply for gw2. Elite specs are not the problem. Skills are.

Were did I say friend?

Becoming personal huh?

Well, I wish ANet would implement a different kind of matchmaking. People like you who say everything is fine will be matched 100% of the time with players without HoT against players with HoT. According to you, you can still win.

Would take a day or two and you would start to complain about matchmaking matching you with “bad players”.

Coulter.2315:

I’ve noticed everyone arguing here that its unfair on those not using HoT actually have HoT, is this just a case of complaints for complaints sake? If no one complaining here is actually a Core game owner (no HoT) then maybe there isn’t a big problem (to the point that no one experiencing the difference has complained, or HoT has been bought by most people and actually is very popular – either one kinda deflates the arguments).

It starts being your problem the first time you land in a team with core players against a team of elite spec players. Besides, if you’re really after competition, you should want the match result to show which side was more skilled, not which side paid more.

Coulter.2315:

Don’t complain on behalf of other people, they can do it themselves, I even asked earlier “if anyone here doesn’t have HoT could they make themselves known” and got zero response.

You do remember, that f2p players cannot post on this forum, right?

The solution is so easy its ridiculous. Look at all the meta builds out-there, they all share the same thing. 1.elite trait line 2.pivot trait line always the same, probably always the old “profession mechanic” trait line. 3. changeable trait line that most of the time crests the build diversity and flavor.
Solution is, make the “pivot trait line” as an Elite core profession trait line. Part of the A.net elite trait line system is that you cant take 2 elite trait lines. Ofc, in several cases some small modifications should be made for the pivot trait line that will make it also an elite level, but not much changes as the pivot trait line is usually very strong.

Just think about druid build without Beast mastery or a reaper without soul reaping , the paradox is that this limitation will actually create much more build diversity and room for variations, it also will make core profession builds a thing for players without HOT or players with HOT that actually prefers core professions builds.

Varonth.5830:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Varonth.5830:

Coulter.2315:

runeblade.7514:

Warlord.9074:

this is the summery of the entire thread.

I want something for free that other people paid for. Because my free version isn’t as good as the paid version, I am going to make a thread and argue that I deserve to have something for free that others paid for because I am a a member of the entitlement generation.

I will use ANETs old TOS as my talking points that is no longer valid for free users while ignoring the fact that they have every right to change that TOS anytime they want.

I agreed to the current TOS so I don’t really have any case to make my point thanks.

I have the expac and I want sPvP players to have elite specs. I bet most people arguing for it do have the expac as well.

I’ve noticed everyone arguing here that its unfair on those not using HoT actually have HoT, is this just a case of complaints for complaints sake? If no one complaining here is actually a Core game owner (no HoT) then maybe there isn’t a big problem (to the point that no one experiencing the difference has complained, or HoT has been bought by most people and actually is very popular – either one kinda deflates the arguments).

Don’t complain on behalf of other people, they can do it themselves, I even asked earlier “if anyone here doesn’t have HoT could they make themselves known” and got zero response. There doesn’t seem to be any complaint from those people who actually don’t have HoT (I think this is because the only people complaining are those who have disliked the exp and are actually looking for any thread which makes the exp look bad – check the names and other threads bashing HoT).

So I am not allowed to complain when I get teammates without HoT who are not going to help me during PvP because they don’t stand a chance against elite specs?

“They don’t stand a chance against elite specs " that’s not true. If anything your friend don’t have the skill to play at the same level as you. Do not blame your friends low skill or lack thero on HOT. Would you expect a new lol player to be competitive against a silver gold or Plat players?? Same rules apply for gw2. Elite specs are not the problem. Skills are.

Were did I say friend?

Becoming personal huh?

Well, I wish ANet would implement a different kind of matchmaking. People like you who say everything is fine will be matched 100% of the time with players without HoT against players with HoT. According to you, you can still win.

Would take a day or two and you would start to complain about matchmaking matching you with “bad players”.

Sorry misread you there,which elite specs are they mostly complaining about? Druids or tempest ?? Cause they are the only two I can come up with, the remainder are easy counter granted the user knows when to time his skills.

Astralporing.1957:

Coulter.2315:

I’ve noticed everyone arguing here that its unfair on those not using HoT actually have HoT, is this just a case of complaints for complaints sake? If no one complaining here is actually a Core game owner (no HoT) then maybe there isn’t a big problem (to the point that no one experiencing the difference has complained, or HoT has been bought by most people and actually is very popular – either one kinda deflates the arguments).

It starts being your problem the first time you land in a team with core players against a team of elite spec players. Besides, if you’re really after competition, you should want the match result to show which side was more skilled, not which side paid more.

Coulter.2315:

Don’t complain on behalf of other people, they can do it themselves, I even asked earlier “if anyone here doesn’t have HoT could they make themselves known” and got zero response.

You do remember, that f2p players cannot post on this forum, right?

Lol are you insinuating those matches don’t show who is more skilled?? Ah at that faulty logic. So in your opinion PU mesmer will lose against chronological mesmer?? Or hammer gs warr again’t zerker warrior or core necrow against reaper??? HOT doesn’t changed one iota in the game, gw2 is still about skill. The only HOT specs I’ll worry about are druids and tempest but even those can be countered if you play well… core engi wrecks every other class,so your argument is very subjective, or if I may , based on fallacious logic.

Astralporing.1957:

Coulter.2315:

Don’t complain on behalf of other people, they can do it themselves, I even asked earlier “if anyone here doesn’t have HoT could they make themselves known” and got zero response.

You do remember, that f2p players cannot post on this forum, right?

Has it come to the point where you’re arguing for people who haven’t even bought the game yet? (This has no hostility to people trying the game for free and I welcome you to GW2)

SlayerSixx.5763:

You need to buy something to remain relevant. That is literally the definition of P2W.

Not quite.

Relevancy and Competency are two different things.

I have seen competent thieves beat daredevils, competent warriors beat berserkers, and a few other denominations.

The traitline itself is not a standard for competition, it is an alternative way to play an already grounded class.

SlayerSixx.5763:

You need to buy something to remain relevant. That is literally the definition of P2W.

Not quite.

Relevancy and Competency are two different things.

I have seen competent thieves beat daredevils, competent warriors beat berserkers, and a few other denominations.

The traitline itself is not a standard for competition, it is an alternative way to play an already grounded class.

I’m sure someone would make the argument that DD saved thief from uselessness, but DA/Trickery/SA or DA/Trickery/Acro(CS) are still viable traitline lineups, especially with Acro now being fixed.

…I’ve got nothing on reaper. There’s solid battle ground there. Whether or not that is example of p2w or example of nerf needed idk.

Astralporing.1957:

We’ll see about that when the next expac arrives.
And the “relatively cheap” isn’t really. It’s quite expensive, in fact (though i agree that it may be relative).

If you can afford a computer to play high end video games and $80 a month for internet, I doubt another $40 xpac will have you eating out of cans.

…ouch, $80 a month for internet? That’s really over the top.
(Hint: not everyone lives in US. Not everywhere living costs and earnings are the same. Something that may be cheap in US, may be… “less cheap” somewhere else.)

It seems like the “pay to win” term is becoming broader and broader. I guess we can start including games like counter-strike, Call of Duty and Rainbow Six in there since in order to win you need to have the game, and in order to have the game, you need to pay so there you go.

Cosbuster.4379:

It seems like the “pay to win” term is becoming broader and broader. I guess we can start including games like counter-strike, Call of Duty and Rainbow Six in there since in order to win you need to have the game, and in order to have the game, you need to pay so there you go.

that is buy2play, not pay2win