Guild Wars 2

Were concerning to me. He said something along the lines of “we cant nerf healing signet that much because it will have a lower HPS than healing surge and then be useless”.

This concerns me because it shows that there is a disconnect between how they see the game being played and how it is played.

The biggest strength of healing signet is there is no counter play. To cast a 1 or 1 and 1/4 second heal is a massive drawback compared to an always ticking passive. On heals the cast time really is the most crucial thing (why healing turret is so good too).

With healing signet poison is no counter because you cant poison the heal, you also cannot interrupt the heal when trying to burst someone down and without having to cast a heal you dont have to take time out from bashing your opponent to heal.

These advantages are bigger than anet thinks. They see the passive without burst healing as a disadvantage that should be overcome by making the passive heal have a higher HPS than an active heal. This is flawed thinking for the reasons I said above.

The most common way people die is get interrupted on their heals by good players. A good thing which distinguishes a really strong player is their ability to prepare their own heal by LOS or by the skills they use. Never having to do this makes healing signet so strong.

There is one reason why warriors can run any weapon set they want and still be devastating. They can run any amulet too and it works. The reason is healing signet. You give heavy army and high HP class an absurd amount of passive sustain and they will always be able to play anything and dominate.

The “healing over time” nature of the healing signet is a strength!!! NOT a weakness. I would take a heal over time like healing signet always over a burst heal for the reasons stated. Please hotfix this because it kills the game with how dominant one class can be.

Lordrosicky.5813:

With healing signet poison is no counter because you cant poison the heal

You can poison the heal. Poison affects all sources of healing – in fact its one of the strongest counters to HoT skills/traits and the reason why it should always be applied to downed targets and surrounding enemies trying to heal them.

The problem is condi immunity and longbow always proccing cleanse. Not to mention lyssa proc from signet of rage.

In my opinion, if they decide to keep healing signet as is, then increase the cast time and recharge time of longbow combustive shot. And do something about all the condi immune BS in the game. And tone down the power of condi nukes. Hell, nerf everything.

healing signet is still weak to continued heavy burst damage and condition overload.

and my casual warrior still does not feel like a god with it.

sure i feel strong against people who do puny damage but against good players i melt away quickly.

Lordrosicky.5813:

The biggest strength of healing signet is there is no counter play.

There is a counterplay .It’s called DPS.Hs can’t burst heal and that is a huge counter and drawback.Stop this embarrasment.The developer sounded really capable to me.

Your post is a clutter of imaginary things combined with whining.

The passive effect needs to be more active. Have it tied to adrenaline gain, or something else. The main problem with the effect is the complete lack of skillful play. Making it a bit more active, and alongside the 8% mathematical nerf, should make a difference by itself, without requiring higher number nerfs.

I understand what J.Peters said about making an active worth sacrificing the passive effect for (aka, making it more skill demanding), but the flaw behind JP’s line of thinking, is that if the passive remains as strong as it is, and if it can pretty much win games as it is, players will never want to waste it unless the active effect is ridiculously powerful too.

Also, getting an useful active effect only justifies it (due to forcing yourself to sacrifice the passive healing) when used by weaker players, but to skillful players, that’ll just be another tool for their build, offering them even more flexibility if they know when to use it.

There will always exist the option of never using the active, so there will always exist the option to keep the skill as strong as it is.

So the passive effect needs to get hit harder, regardless of what Anet does with the active effect. And by hit harder, it would be preferable through a more demanding functionality change instead of through a traditional, straight nerf beyond the 8% change.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

continued heavy burst damage

pls

i don’t get the big deal with healing sig, sure its nice but its not “OMFG THATS SO AMAZING!”
1. you lose the ability to heal if your health gets low
(i don’t count the puny 3k active as a heal)

2. there are soooo many healing skills that out-heal healing sig, and most of them have secondary effects and can be traited for even more secondary effects.

again, it’s nice, but its not OP, the reason it gets this image is the combination that warriors can access (regen, heal sig, adrenal healing, + condi clears) that stacking is godly, but healing signet isn’t the problem.

One solution for the counter play.

Active: gain the same passive healing for 20 seconds, cooldown 20 seconds. Now you can interrupt the cast and stop the whining.
Passive: You are imune to bursts (because bursts already dont do anything against warrior, so its not OP)….

Liewec.2896:

2. there are soooo many healing skills that out-heal healing sig

Lol nope. So nope.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Lordrosicky.5813:

With healing signet poison is no counter because you cant poison the heal

You can poison the heal. Poison affects all sources of healing – in fact its one of the strongest counters to HoT skills/traits and the reason why it should always be applied to downed targets and surrounding enemies trying to heal them.

The problem is condi immunity and longbow always proccing cleanse. Not to mention lyssa proc from signet of rage.

In my opinion, if they decide to keep healing signet as is, then increase the cast time and recharge time of longbow combustive shot. And do something about all the condi immune BS in the game. And tone down the power of condi nukes. Hell, nerf everything.

What I am saying is poison on a burst heal will hit the whole heal. Poison cannot be timed to be put on a warrior when they would want to heal. So poison has an effect but it is very minor vs such a passive heal because the heal is spread out over time.

Lordrosicky.5813:

What I am saying is poison on a burst heal will hit the whole heal. Poison cannot be timed to be put on a warrior when they would want to heal. So poison has an effect but it is very minor vs such a passive heal because the heal is spread out over time.

minor? are you sure?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poison
Deals damage every second; heal potency decreased by 33%; stacks duration.

healing signet 392 × 0.64 = 250.88 per second
adrenal health 360 × 0.64 = 230.40 per 3 seconds

poison basically neuters healing signet to 250 health per second.

minor?

mini.6018:

Lordrosicky.5813:

The biggest strength of healing signet is there is no counter play.

There is a counterplay .It’s called DPS.Hs can’t burst heal and that is a huge counter and drawback.Stop this embarrasment.The developer sounded really capable to me.

Your post is a clutter of imaginary things combined with whining.

Lol. Do you realize how little time is required for HS to start outhealing a burst heal? Any half-competent warrior should be able to last that long. I know that I certainly can.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Lordrosicky.5813:

What I am saying is poison on a burst heal will hit the whole heal. Poison cannot be timed to be put on a warrior when they would want to heal. So poison has an effect but it is very minor vs such a passive heal because the heal is spread out over time.

minor? are you sure?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poison
Deals damage every second; heal potency decreased by 33%; stacks duration.

healing signet 392 × 0.64 = 250.88 per second
adrenal health 360 × 0.64 = 230.40 per 3 seconds

poison basically neuters healing signet to 250 health per second.

minor?

You’re missing the point. For instance, over a 15 second period, if I have poison on a HealSig for 5 of those seconds, then I’ll reduce the equivalent of 1/3*1/3 = 1/9 of my opponent’s total healing. On the other hand, if I use poison on a burst heal, I’ll instantaneously reduce its effectiveness by 33%. The difference is that, against HealSig, we need to have a constant uptime of poison in order to reduce its average effectiveness to that 250.88 health per second. On the other hand, against burst healing, we only need to keep up, for example, a second of poison in order to counter one.

And either way, Cleansing Ire is one of the best if not the best condi cleanse in the game anyways, which makes the poison “counter” even more futile.

Lordrosicky.5813:

So poison has an effect but it is very minor vs such a passive heal because the heal is spread out over time.

It’s actually pretty huge. Poison, at minimum, ticks for about 100 dmg per sec. Healing signet heals for about 400 per second. So that means 400(0.67) – 100 = 168. It basically looses about (at minimum) 58% of its strength when is poison applied to the warrior. A thief with choking gas and clusterbomb can kill a warrior easily if the warrior is afk. The problem is the easy condi cleanse/immunities, imo.

Arganthium.5638:

Cleansing Ire is one of the best if not the best condi cleanse in the game anyways, which makes the poison “counter” even more futile.

^ This.

Liewec.2896:

i don’t get the big deal with healing sig, sure its nice but its not “OMFG THATS SO AMAZING!”
1. you lose the ability to heal if your health gets low
(i don’t count the puny 3k active as a heal)

2. there are soooo many healing skills that out-heal healing sig, and most of them have secondary effects and can be traited for even more secondary effects.

again, it’s nice, but its not OP, the reason it gets this image is the combination that warriors can access (regen, heal sig, adrenal healing, + condi clears) that stacking is godly, but healing signet isn’t the problem.

1. No, you just have Endure Pain, Zerker Stance, and heavy armor to absorb that damage. And either way, it takes more damage to reduce a warrior to 3k health than any other class in the game. Even then, I’ve still found HealSig to be an extremely effective tool even when I’m low on health when I’ve played warrior.

2. Not even close. There are two heals that can be greater than HealSig (Healing Turret and Med Kit), but the total activation time across all the skills required to make those skills worth more than HealSig not only reduces their HPS to levels below HealSig, but also sacrifices damage potential that those cast times could’ve been used for as well.

Arganthium.5638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Lordrosicky.5813:

What I am saying is poison on a burst heal will hit the whole heal. Poison cannot be timed to be put on a warrior when they would want to heal. So poison has an effect but it is very minor vs such a passive heal because the heal is spread out over time.

minor? are you sure?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poison
Deals damage every second; heal potency decreased by 33%; stacks duration.

healing signet 392 × 0.64 = 250.88 per second
adrenal health 360 × 0.64 = 230.40 per 3 seconds

poison basically neuters healing signet to 250 health per second.

minor?

You’re missing the point. For instance, over a 15 second period, if I have poison on a HealSig for 5 of those seconds, then I’ll reduce the equivalent of 1/3*1/3 = 1/9 of my opponent’s total healing. On the other hand, if I use poison on a burst heal, I’ll instantaneously reduce its effectiveness by 33%. The difference is that, against HealSig, we need to have a constant uptime of poison in order to reduce its average effectiveness to that 250.88 health per second. On the other hand, against burst healing, we only need to keep up, for example, a second of poison in order to counter one.

And either way, Cleansing Ire is one of the best if not the best condi cleanse in the game anyways, which makes the poison “counter” even more futile.

well, cleansing ire is only really powerful if paired with longbow and hammer.
and burst mastery.

other warrior weapons does not seem quite cleansing ire friendly eheheheh.

Arganthium.5638:

it takes more damage to reduce a warrior to 3k health than any other class in the game.

And again you prove to us in a blatantly obvious manner how little ideea you have about the game you are playing and how unfounded all your claims and ideeas are.

Literally Speachless.

Arganthium.5638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Lordrosicky.5813:

What I am saying is poison on a burst heal will hit the whole heal. Poison cannot be timed to be put on a warrior when they would want to heal. So poison has an effect but it is very minor vs such a passive heal because the heal is spread out over time.

minor? are you sure?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poison
Deals damage every second; heal potency decreased by 33%; stacks duration.

healing signet 392 × 0.64 = 250.88 per second
adrenal health 360 × 0.64 = 230.40 per 3 seconds

poison basically neuters healing signet to 250 health per second.

minor?

You’re missing the point. For instance, over a 15 second period, if I have poison on a HealSig for 5 of those seconds, then I’ll reduce the equivalent of 1/3*1/3 = 1/9 of my opponent’s total healing. On the other hand, if I use poison on a burst heal, I’ll instantaneously reduce its effectiveness by 33%. The difference is that, against HealSig, we need to have a constant uptime of poison in order to reduce its average effectiveness to that 250.88 health per second. On the other hand, against burst healing, we only need to keep up, for example, a second of poison in order to counter one.

And either way, Cleansing Ire is one of the best if not the best condi cleanse in the game anyways, which makes the poison “counter” even more futile.

Any decent player will cleanse poison before the heal, so in some cases poison = 0% decrease on healing.

Against HS poison is working from the first second you apply it on the warrior until he clean the poison. Lets say 8 seconds average with poison (assuming you poison the warrior after and not before he used his longbow burst) This means that his HS healed for 33% less for that time.

392 hps – 33% = 262 hps (with poison). In 8 seconds you managed to keep the warrior from healing 129 hps x 8seconds = 1032 less healing only with poison in 8 seconds. Not counting here the damage poison does by itself.

HS is way more afected with poison than other passive heals because its always active. No matter when or how you put poison on warrior, is healing is afected from the start.

im p sure that i said this but healing signet is not the problem … the problem is the armor, cleanse, inmunities, adrenal heal, blocks and dodges of the warrior wich make healing signet “op”.

if u give healing signet to all the classes it wont be as good as it is on the warrior.

if tomorrow they nerf healing signet to the ground u think anything is going to change in the warrior? i really dont think so

Chicago Jack.5647:

You can poison the heal.

I think the point is, poison is far less effective against warriors.
Most poisons last 6~ seconds.
Most heal skills cast for their 1.5~s and are done with.

Poison is typically a condi you toss on right around when someone needs to heal to cut back 33% of their healing.
If you do that to a warrior you typically only end up cutting back 5-10% since anything short of permanent poison up-time through their condi-removal is only cutting off a portions of time where their constant heal is ticking.

i thought thief with short bow can spam poison field quite often?

ahuba.6430:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

continued heavy burst damage

pls

So he says ..Take the damage in a good burst thats in the game.Apply it continuously and you ll take down the warrior ! Seems legit,doesnt it? ahaha

Avead.5760:

ahuba.6430:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

continued heavy burst damage

pls

So he says ..Take the damage in a good burst thats in the game.Apply it continuously and you ll take down the warrior ! Seems legit,doesnt it? ahaha

ya! ya! that’s what happens to my warrior when i face off players who deal good damage!

against players who do puny damage i just stand there though.

garethh.3518:

Most poisons last 6~ seconds.

Engies have poison volly and nades. Thief has choking gas and steal. Necro has poison on auto attack and scepter 3. Rangers and eles (lawl @ eles, and maybe spider pet from ranger? though no one really runs it in favor of dogs). A lot of classes have easy access to poison.

garethh.3518:

Poison is typically a condi you toss on right around when someone needs to heal to cut back 33% of their healing.

Ur right (however an interrupt would be better), but the main issue, again in my opinion, is the easy condi cleanse/immunity. Increase the cast time to 1 second on combustive shot and increase its cooldown to like 15 seconds and I think that would be a huge positive step.

Chicago Jack.5647:

It’s actually pretty huge. Poison, at minimum, ticks for about 100 dmg per sec. Healing signet heals for about 400 per second. So that means 400(0.67) – 100 = 168. It basically looses about (at minimum) 58% of its strength when is poison applied to the warrior.

If you put a 6s poison on a burst heal (lets say 300 hps), you end up cutting around 45~% of the healing over the 25~ second CD.

If you put a 6s poison on a warriors heal you end up cutting around 15% of the warrior’s healing over 25~ seconds.

kittening Massive difference.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Engies have poison volly and nades. Thief has choking gas and steal. Necro has poison on auto attack and scepter 3. Rangers and eles (lawl @ eles, and maybe spider pet from ranger? though no one really runs it in favor of dogs). A lot of classes have easy access to poison.

And there is condi removal.
Long duration poisons don’t tend to stay on targets for long durations in this game.
Especially against warriors.

Choking gass will never get more than a tick off, and is almost never worth the initiative (that leaves steal and a 3rd attack in dagger chain, basically very low poison uptime at best).
Engineer poison nades is by far best used against downed enemies and volley misses half its shots most the time.
Rangers tend to have one poison tagged on to an evade skill.
Mesmers have none.
Warriors have none.
Guardians have none.

@ Deimos+Mini: Always the same players who defend kitten traits and broken utilities. You are probably the guys who loose against other classes because you are not able to tap the full potential of the OP classes and then you are worried that you will loose even more fights because finally your class is in line with the other ones.

And FYI poison gets nerfed in the next patch…Thus it becomes even better to fight a warrior, which cleanses conditions like it would be nothing (shortbow spamming + lyssa runes ftw). And ofc its not true that on top of the healing signet he has berserker stance and sometimes endure pain. Every warrior who dies to a spike at the beginning of the fight is just dumb as kitten. And in the middle of the fight alot of players already used their CDs.
Srsly should up trolling and accept that you just defend mindless nooby gameplay. Have you ever seen what happened when guardians Signet of resolve is activated under poison? It worth nothing.

And @ Deimos: “Countinous burst damage” Rofl did you even read that? First, this phrase is contrary (because either its a burst or not) and second every class dies when it gets pressured by 5 people – The problem is that the warrior is just using his immunity traits and the enemy team is on cd…gg. Not to mention bunker warriors with passive regeneration higher than what my burning ticks for.

Treat it the same as Signet of Restoration, you only get the passive healing when using a skill, bump up the healing amount to compensate for slower attack speed compared to a D/D or S/X Ele.

Do whatever is considered as “balanced” for the active effect.

Warrior is totally broken.

If you are a non-berserker elementalist, an afk warrior regenerates more HP than the damage you can deal.

garethh.3518:

Chicago Jack.5647:

It’s actually pretty huge. Poison, at minimum, ticks for about 100 dmg per sec. Healing signet heals for about 400 per second. So that means 400(0.67) – 100 = 168. It basically looses about (at minimum) 58% of its strength when is poison applied to the warrior.

If you put a 6s poison on a burst heal (lets say 300 hps), you end up cutting around 45~% of the healing over the 25~ second CD.

If you put a 6s poison on a warriors heal you end up cutting around 15% of the warrior’s healing over 25~ seconds.

kittening Massive difference.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Engies have poison volly and nades. Thief has choking gas and steal. Necro has poison on auto attack and scepter 3. Rangers and eles (lawl @ eles, and maybe spider pet from ranger? though no one really runs it in favor of dogs). A lot of classes have easy access to poison.

And there is condi removal.
Long duration poisons don’t tend to stay on targets for long durations in this game.
Especially against warriors.

Choking gass will never get more than a tick off, and is almost never worth the initiative (that leaves steal and a 3rd attack in dagger chain, basically very low poison uptime at best).
Engineer poison nades is by far best used against downed enemies and volley misses half its shots most the time.
Rangers tend to have one poison tagged on to an evade skill.
Mesmers have none.
Warriors have none.
Guardians have none.

Whoever said Poison hurts warrior’s HS more then other classes… seriously?
Read the explanation the guy i quoted did and just do simple math? I honestly think half of the people defending warriors or any other kittened stuff in game is just really incapable of doing simple math.

For poison to be as effective as it is for other classes on warrior, you would basically need 100% up time poison… And if the argument was “good players will cleanse before using their burst heal”. Oh yeah? Tell this to mesmers running lockdown/shatter builds in competitive gaming, even if they run null field its most likely he’ll cleanse other stuff before poison, or even using cleansing mantra, especially since when you get condition bombed you got all the conditions in the game on you, and the safe way to survive is using Lyssa most of the times, which BY THE WAY, its stronger on warriors as well as thiefs due low cooldown elites, and i’m not even mentioning a skill called Berserker Stance with a duration of 8 seconds.

I look at it more like this.

How much defense should one of the highest damage dealing classes have?
What is their defensive weakness? Healing? Condition removal? Escape? CC?

saVdoom.2067:

Whoever said Poison hurts warrior’s HS more then other classes… seriously?

I don’t think anyone ever said this. Calm down.

HPLT.7132:

@ Deimos+Mini: Always the same players who defend kitten traits and broken utilities. You are probably the guys who loose against other classes because you are not able to tap the full potential of the OP classes and then you are worried that you will loose even more fights because finally your class is in line with the other ones.

And FYI poison gets nerfed in the next patch…Thus it becomes even better to fight a warrior, which cleanses conditions like it would be nothing (shortbow spamming + lyssa runes ftw). And ofc its not true that on top of the healing signet he has berserker stance and sometimes endure pain. Every warrior who dies to a spike at the beginning of the fight is just dumb as kitten. And in the middle of the fight alot of players already used their CDs.
Srsly should up trolling and accept that you just defend mindless nooby gameplay. Have you ever seen what happened when guardians Signet of resolve is activated under poison? It worth nothing.

And @ Deimos: “Countinous burst damage” Rofl did you even read that? First, this phrase is contrary (because either its a burst or not) and second every class dies when it gets pressured by 5 people – The problem is that the warrior is just using his immunity traits and the enemy team is on cd…gg. Not to mention bunker warriors with passive regeneration higher than what my burning ticks for.

Lmao poison is getting nerfed .If you consider 60 second poison nerfed to only 30 40 a nerf.You can’t be serious.Geez with all the ners if you can’t kill a warrior already then you should just reroll.Complaining about it to brìng them down to your personal skill level is just lame.Good players never had a problem with warriors even before they got nerfed.

But they tried to argue in that direction.

@ Mini : Show me a warrior with poison uptime for longer than 10 sec …they have one of the best condi cleanses in the entire game.

Warriors giving a kitten about poison …accept that

HPLT.7132:

But they tried to argue in that direction.

@ Mini : Show me a warrior with poison uptime for longer than 10 sec …they have one of the best condi cleanses in the entire game.

Warriors giving a kitten about poison …accept that

10 second posion = healing decreased by 45% for those 10 seconds including the poison damage.What is the problem ?Other heals can just cleanse and heal to full without having to lose 0% of that heal.

Seriously you are arguing that you cannot deal 250 dps in those 10 seconds and keep it up afterwards ? What kind of kitten build you play bro?

10 seconds of poison on a warrior:
392*0,45=176,5*10seconds=1765 hp that the warrior looses effectively

1 second of poison on a guard during heal (shelter= most common heal and pretty average regards the amount of heal):
4555*0,45=2049,75 that the guardian looses effectively
CD=30seconds

If you try to troll – leave it or do it right.

HPLT.7132:

But they tried to argue in that direction.

@ Mini : Show me a warrior with poison uptime for longer than 10 sec …they have one of the best condi cleanses in the entire game.

Warriors giving a kitten about poison …accept that

That its not hard to happen. Just poison the warrior after longbow burst (not before) and after evade the other burst skill.
Is all about skill.

HPLT.7132:

10 seconds of poison on a warrior:
392*0,45=176,5*10seconds=1765 hp that the warrior looses effectively

1 second of poison on a guard during heal (shelter= most common heal and pretty average regards the amount of heal):
4555*0,45=2049,75 that the guardian looses effectively
CD=30seconds

If you try to troll do it right.

A guard or a andrenal health warrior can just cleanse the poison and then heal resulting in zero healing reduction.Only bad players heal with poison on

1/10 for the try.

Peter’s comments are exactly what I suspected and indicative of a flaw in almost all MMO game design.

They use these giant spreadsheet to “calculate” balance between abilities/classes. However, far too many things can’t be represented in a spreadsheet or hard numbers so these are areas in almost ANY MMO where there are problems.

I did a post many months ago highlighting the most common areas where developers struggle to “balance” things (i.e. stealth, cc, mobility, burst, etc.). And sure enough…some of the most significantly nerfed classes since release have been ones originally created with the most stealth, cc, burst, and mobility (i.e. thieves and mesmers)…yet they are STILL strong!

In the case of healing signet, developers often underestimate the value of a “passive” versus an “active”. Not only that…most healing skills aren’t insta-cast…so you have more than just a global cooldown and extra step in your “fight” to manage. You also force other classes to spend time casting something that can be interrupted and also create an opportunity cost for these classes.

As I’ve said many times, it’s almost impossible to balance a core ability that is active for everyone else, but passive for one class/profession. You are essentially giving them the equivalent of an extra turn in tic-tac-toe, which then makes it essential to “balance” a bunch of other areas to make things fair.

Passive healing signet will ALWAYS be either OP or UP because of their failure to recognize this issue….Peter’s comments essentially endorse what I’m saying although he appears to still be confused as to why.

mini.6018:

HPLT.7132:

10 seconds of poison on a warrior:
392*0,45=176,5*10seconds=1765 hp that the warrior looses effectively

1 second of poison on a guard during heal (shelter= most common heal and pretty average regards the amount of heal):
4555*0,45=2049,75 that the guardian looses effectively
CD=30seconds

If you try to troll do it right.

A guard or a andrenal health warrior can just cleanse the poison and then heal resulting in zero healing reduction.Only bad players heal with poison on

1/10 for the try.

So first you try to tell me that poison is a hard counter for warriors and then you wanna teach my that only bad players don’t cleanse poison. Not to mention that active heals have a cast time. Healing signet is superior to any other heal in the game – Dont know why you still refuse it.
Really I didn’t wanted to play this card but arguing with players that are not even on the leaderboards (which currently just means they dont play PVP) is so annoying .

HPLT.7132:

mini.6018:

HPLT.7132:

10 seconds of poison on a warrior:
392*0,45=176,5*10seconds=1765 hp that the warrior looses effectively

1 second of poison on a guard during heal (shelter= most common heal and pretty average regards the amount of heal):
4555*0,45=2049,75 that the guardian looses effectively
CD=30seconds

If you try to troll do it right.

A guard or a andrenal health warrior can just cleanse the poison and then heal resulting in zero healing reduction.Only bad players heal with poison on

1/10 for the try.

So first you try to tell me that poison is a hard counter for warriors and then you wanna teach my that only bad players don’t cleanse poison. Not to mention that active heals have a cast time. Healing signet is superior to any other heal in the game – Dont know why you still refuse it.
Really I didn’t wanted to play this card but arguing with players that are not even on the leaderboards (which currently just means they dont play PVP) is so annoying .

You really have problems understanding do you ? While everyone can just remove the poison BEFORE it heals a warrior using HS will have that healing forever lost because you cannot always cleanse poison at the first second.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Lordrosicky.5813:

With healing signet poison is no counter because you cant poison the heal

You can poison the heal. Poison affects all sources of healing – in fact its one of the strongest counters to HoT skills/traits and the reason why it should always be applied to downed targets and surrounding enemies trying to heal them.

The problem is condi immunity and longbow always proccing cleanse. Not to mention lyssa proc from signet of rage.

In my opinion, if they decide to keep healing signet as is, then increase the cast time and recharge time of longbow combustive shot. And do something about all the condi immune BS in the game. And tone down the power of condi nukes. Hell, nerf everything.

Pretty much this, except eles.

mini.6018:

HPLT.7132:

mini.6018:

HPLT.7132:

10 seconds of poison on a warrior:
392*0,45=176,5*10seconds=1765 hp that the warrior looses effectively

1 second of poison on a guard during heal (shelter= most common heal and pretty average regards the amount of heal):
4555*0,45=2049,75 that the guardian looses effectively
CD=30seconds

If you try to troll do it right.

A guard or a andrenal health warrior can just cleanse the poison and then heal resulting in zero healing reduction.Only bad players heal with poison on

1/10 for the try.

So first you try to tell me that poison is a hard counter for warriors and then you wanna teach my that only bad players don’t cleanse poison. Not to mention that active heals have a cast time. Healing signet is superior to any other heal in the game – Dont know why you still refuse it.
Really I didn’t wanted to play this card but arguing with players that are not even on the leaderboards (which currently just means they dont play PVP) is so annoying .

You really have problems understanding do you ? While everyone can just remove the poison BEFORE it heals a warrior using HS will have that healing forever lost because you cannot always cleanse poison at the first second.

Oh yeah and thats totally fine. I will give you another example
Healing through healing signet with 100% poison uptime (expecting the active heal of the compared class has 30s cd)
392*0,66*30sec= 7760hp

Healing of Shelter:
4555hp

So even with 100% uptime of poison the warrior heals 4.5k more compared to a Guard. And you think guard is the only one lets check ranger

Healing spring:
4920hp

Ele:
Glyph of elemental harmony
5872hp

etc etc.

and this comparison would just be the case if the mentioned classes would heal exactly after 30 sec…if they heal a little bit later the gap becomes bigger and bigger. And not to mention the base health of alot of these classes is almost 10k hp lower than the one of the warrior.

I know its not all about the heals because alot of classes have additional utilities but the warrior utilities are also far beyond balanced -> 2 stunbreakers with 1) 5sek direct damage immunity and 2) 10 sec stability + berserker stance with additional 8 sec condit immunity.

Sorry bro but maths outplays you.

The problem isn’t the amount of the heal. The problem, as was stated on the dev live stream, is that it is “skill-less”. Personally, I’d like to see the passive side weakened quite a bit and the active buffed by a large amount. That would give people a reason to actually hit the 6 key.

style.6173:

The problem isn’t the amount of the heal. The problem, as was stated on the dev live stream, is that it is “skill-less”. Personally, I’d like to see the passive side weakened quite a bit and the active buffed by a large amount. That would give people a reason to actually hit the 6 key.

An active that is really strong with ANY passive at all is just broken. Imagine fighting them. They regen over and over. Finally they heal for a ton when they use the active. Then they can start regenning again when the heal comes off cd again. The mere fact the skill has a passive makes it required for the active to be really bad or the whole thing will be even more broken.

Unless you mean the active heals for 6k and the passive ticks for 200. Then this would be fine sure (possibly, I havent really thought about it)

HPLT.7132:

mini.6018:

HPLT.7132:

mini.6018:

HPLT.7132:

10 seconds of poison on a warrior:
392*0,45=176,5*10seconds=1765 hp that the warrior looses effectively

1 second of poison on a guard during heal (shelter= most common heal and pretty average regards the amount of heal):
4555*0,45=2049,75 that the guardian looses effectively
CD=30seconds

If you try to troll do it right.

A guard or a andrenal health warrior can just cleanse the poison and then heal resulting in zero healing reduction.Only bad players heal with poison on

1/10 for the try.

So first you try to tell me that poison is a hard counter for warriors and then you wanna teach my that only bad players don’t cleanse poison. Not to mention that active heals have a cast time. Healing signet is superior to any other heal in the game – Dont know why you still refuse it.
Really I didn’t wanted to play this card but arguing with players that are not even on the leaderboards (which currently just means they dont play PVP) is so annoying .

You really have problems understanding do you ? While everyone can just remove the poison BEFORE it heals a warrior using HS will have that healing forever lost because you cannot always cleanse poison at the first second.

Oh yeah and thats totally fine. I will give you another example
Healing through healing signet with 100% poison uptime (expecting the active heal of the compared class has 30s cd)
392*0,77*30sec= 9055hp

Healing of Shelter:
4555hp

So even with 100% uptime of poison the warrior heals 4.5k more compared to a Guard. And you think guard is the only one lets check ranger

Healing spring:
4920hp

Ele:
Glyph of elemental harmony
5872hp

etc etc.

and this comparison would just be the case if the mentioned classes would heal exactly after 30 sec…if they heal a little bit later the gap becomes bigger and bigger. And not to mention the base health of alot of these classes is almost 10k hp lower than the one of the warrior.

I know its not all about the heals because alot of classes have additional utilities but the warrior utilities are also far beyond balanced -> 2 stunbreakers with 1) 5sek direct damage immunity and 2) 10 sec stability + berserker stance with additional 8 sec condit immunity.

Sorry bro but maths outplays you.

Dude i will just quit explaining to you you basicly bring in and compare heals that blocck,combofields and more with a simple just heal ability.Im juts glad Anet chose to ignore bad players with such ideeas this time.

mini.6018:

HPLT.7132:

mini.6018:

HPLT.7132:

mini.6018:

HPLT.7132:

10 seconds of poison on a warrior:
392*0,45=176,5*10seconds=1765 hp that the warrior looses effectively

1 second of poison on a guard during heal (shelter= most common heal and pretty average regards the amount of heal):
4555*0,45=2049,75 that the guardian looses effectively
CD=30seconds

If you try to troll do it right.

A guard or a andrenal health warrior can just cleanse the poison and then heal resulting in zero healing reduction.Only bad players heal with poison on

1/10 for the try.

So first you try to tell me that poison is a hard counter for warriors and then you wanna teach my that only bad players don’t cleanse poison. Not to mention that active heals have a cast time. Healing signet is superior to any other heal in the game – Dont know why you still refuse it.
Really I didn’t wanted to play this card but arguing with players that are not even on the leaderboards (which currently just means they dont play PVP) is so annoying .

You really have problems understanding do you ? While everyone can just remove the poison BEFORE it heals a warrior using HS will have that healing forever lost because you cannot always cleanse poison at the first second.

Oh yeah and thats totally fine. I will give you another example
Healing through healing signet with 100% poison uptime (expecting the active heal of the compared class has 30s cd)
392*0,77*30sec= 9055hp

Healing of Shelter:
4555hp

So even with 100% uptime of poison the warrior heals 4.5k more compared to a Guard. And you think guard is the only one lets check ranger

Healing spring:
4920hp

Ele:
Glyph of elemental harmony
5872hp

etc etc.

and this comparison would just be the case if the mentioned classes would heal exactly after 30 sec…if they heal a little bit later the gap becomes bigger and bigger. And not to mention the base health of alot of these classes is almost 10k hp lower than the one of the warrior.

I know its not all about the heals because alot of classes have additional utilities but the warrior utilities are also far beyond balanced -> 2 stunbreakers with 1) 5sek direct damage immunity and 2) 10 sec stability + berserker stance with additional 8 sec condit immunity.

Sorry bro but maths outplays you.

Dude i will just quit explaining to you you basicly bring in and compare heals that blocck,combofields and more with a simple just heal ability.

I think what annoys people is you mindlessly defend warrior whilst nobody has any evidence that you ever play pvp in your life. So our only conclusion is that you are trolling us all

HPLT you just made my night. Here let me even enhance that for you and take chilled into account, which healing signet COMPLETELY ignores:

Healing of Healing Signet:
11,760 per 30 seconds (392 hps)
with poison 392*0,77*30sec= 9055hp /30 sec = 301 hps

Healing of Shelter:
4555hp (152 hps)
with poison: 4555*0.77= 3507/30 sec = 117 hps
with chilled: 4555/(30 sec x1.66) = 91 hps
with poison and chilled: 4555*0.77 = 3507/(30 sec x 1.66) = 70 hps

Even if you keep poison up 100% of the time on the warrior, Healing Signet’s hps will outclass Shelter’s hps by 257%. Now let’s take chilled into account, Healing Signet ignores chilled completely and will end up outclassing Shelter’s hps by a wopping 430%.

Now just think about the delay between Shelter coming off cooldown and being activated. Imagine getting interrupted or cc locked. Healing signet just keeps right on trucking at at LEAST 301 hps with poison up, while the hps of shelter diminishes from it’s full 152 hps with no conditions on to less and less each second.

THAT is what is wrong with this healing skill. Not only does it take absolutely no skill to use and have mac truck throughput that requires no healing power investment, it flat out ignores 3/4 of all counterplay against healing skills in general. It’s basically a giant abomination against game design in general and if I hadn’t lost all faith in GW2’s devs several times over already, this would surely make me question their competence.

Lordrosicky.5813:

mini.6018:

HPLT.7132:

mini.6018:

HPLT.7132:

mini.6018:

HPLT.7132:

10 seconds of poison on a warrior:
392*0,45=176,5*10seconds=1765 hp that the warrior looses effectively

1 second of poison on a guard during heal (shelter= most common heal and pretty average regards the amount of heal):
4555*0,45=2049,75 that the guardian looses effectively
CD=30seconds

If you try to troll do it right.

A guard or a andrenal health warrior can just cleanse the poison and then heal resulting in zero healing reduction.Only bad players heal with poison on

1/10 for the try.

So first you try to tell me that poison is a hard counter for warriors and then you wanna teach my that only bad players don’t cleanse poison. Not to mention that active heals have a cast time. Healing signet is superior to any other heal in the game – Dont know why you still refuse it.
Really I didn’t wanted to play this card but arguing with players that are not even on the leaderboards (which currently just means they dont play PVP) is so annoying .

You really have problems understanding do you ? While everyone can just remove the poison BEFORE it heals a warrior using HS will have that healing forever lost because you cannot always cleanse poison at the first second.

Oh yeah and thats totally fine. I will give you another example
Healing through healing signet with 100% poison uptime (expecting the active heal of the compared class has 30s cd)
392*0,77*30sec= 9055hp

Healing of Shelter:
4555hp

So even with 100% uptime of poison the warrior heals 4.5k more compared to a Guard. And you think guard is the only one lets check ranger

Healing spring:
4920hp

Ele:
Glyph of elemental harmony
5872hp

etc etc.

and this comparison would just be the case if the mentioned classes would heal exactly after 30 sec…if they heal a little bit later the gap becomes bigger and bigger. And not to mention the base health of alot of these classes is almost 10k hp lower than the one of the warrior.

I know its not all about the heals because alot of classes have additional utilities but the warrior utilities are also far beyond balanced -> 2 stunbreakers with 1) 5sek direct damage immunity and 2) 10 sec stability + berserker stance with additional 8 sec condit immunity.

Sorry bro but maths outplays you.

Dude i will just quit explaining to you you basicly bring in and compare heals that blocck,combofields and more with a simple just heal ability.

I think what annoys people is you mindlessly defend warrior whilst nobody has any evidence that you ever play pvp in your life. So our only conclusion is that you are trolling us all

It’s not mindless i use reason.People keep spamming their kitten comparing healing skills between them and never taking into consideration class mechanics and other sources of sustain other classes have wich make me think everyone else including yourself are just hardcore pvers that ocasinally get wrecked in spvp.Guardians overall hps is still stronger than warriors aswell as engineers and people still cry harder about warrior simply because their IQ level can’t picture the whole .

Instead is easier to focus on A=/= B when in fact this game is about taking the whole factors A+B+C+D+E in consideration.

This is not 2 targets sitting immobilized doing autoattacks turned based and the one with the most hp wins.Learn that and you might actually improve.

Sweetbread.2679:

HPLT you just made my night. Here let me even enhance that for you and take chilled into account, which healing signet COMPLETELY ignores:

Healing of Healing Signet:
11,760 per 30 seconds (392 hps)
with poison 392*0,77*30sec= 9055hp /30 sec = 301 hps

Healing of Shelter:
4555hp (152 hps)
with poison: 4555*0.77= 3507/30 sec = 117 hps
with chilled: 4555/(30 sec x1.66) = 91 hps
with poison and chilled: 4555*0.77 = 3507/(30 sec x 1.66) = 70 hps

Even if you keep poison up 100% of the time on the warrior, Healing Signet’s hps will outclass Shelter’s hps by 257%. Now let’s take chilled into account, Healing Signet ignores chilled completely and will end up outclassing Shelter’s hps by a wopping 430%.

Now just think about the delay between Shelter coming off cooldown and being activated. Imagine getting interrupted or cc locked. Healing signet just keeps right on trucking at at LEAST 301 hps with poison up, while the hps of shelter diminishes from it’s full 152 hps with no conditions on to less and less each second.

THAT is what is wrong with this healing skill. Not only does it take absolutely no skill to use and have mac truck throughput that requires no healing power investment, it flat out ignores 3/4 of all counterplay against healing skills in general. It’s basically a giant abomination against game design in general and if I hadn’t lost all faith in GW2’s devs several times over already, this would surely make me question their competence.

If hps is all that matters why are not all guardians using the signet over shelter ?They will have the double healing with the signet plus a condition removal. Please explain to me?

Oh wait hps is not the only thing that counts in this game now go and reflect about that.

mini.6018:

It’s not mindless i use reason.People keep spamming their kitten comparing healing skills between them and never taking into consideration class mechanics and other sources of sustain other classes have wich make me think everyone else including yourself are just hardcore pvers that ocasinally get wrecked in spvp.

I told you ones I will tell you twice…Warriors is a kittening sustain beast.
If it would just be the signet but there is also at least 16 sec of stability , 8 sec of coniditon immunity, 5 sec of direct damage immunity, chain stun on hammer, condi remove on longbow, kittening heavy burning on longbow but also huge direct damage with longbow 4, nearly instant immobilise with pindown.

The healing signet is just the tip of the iceberg of that class but if you dont believe me because i am not famous enough for you check this:
http://www.twitch.tv/teldoo

Just 2 Quotes:
Teldo: “OMG warriors are the OP. 1 mistake and you are done”
Aszhene: “OMG why are warriors so kittening OP broken”

And now move out of this forum troll.