Guild Wars 2

Marcos.3690:

Warrior is totally broken.

If you are a non-berserker elementalist, an afk warrior regenerates more HP than the damage you can deal.

I can confirm that.

HPLT.7132:

mini.6018:

It’s not mindless i use reason.People keep spamming their kitten comparing healing skills between them and never taking into consideration class mechanics and other sources of sustain other classes have wich make me think everyone else including yourself are just hardcore pvers that ocasinally get wrecked in spvp.

I told you ones I will tell you twice…Warriors is a kittening sustain beast.
If it would just be the signet but there is also at least 16 sec of stability , 8 sec of coniditon immunity, 5 sec of direct damage immunity, chain stun on hammer, condi remove on longbow, kittening heavy burning on longbow but also huge direct damage with longbow 5.

The healing signet is just the tip of the iceberg of that class but if you dont believe me because i am not famous enough for you check this:
http://www.twitch.tv/teldoo

Just 2 Quotes:
Teldo: “OMG warriors are the OP. 1 mistake and you are done”
Aszhene: “OMG why are warriors so kittening OP broken”

And now move out of this forum troll.

I will not move away because you are bad at the game and continue crying over and over.Warriors need all that sustain because they are melee dependant,very susceptable to kiting and very telegraphed skills.Also that sustain is not even real sustain because once the 10 seconds of OMG WAR OP are over they go down in 5 seconds if you actually have a brain.

I am not crying. I bring up fact…Your 3 last post after I posted some maths is:
“You dont consider this and that” but you cant give examples…you just post over and over again that I am just a bad player. However I cant see you in the top1000 which means you dont do PVP and if you go WvWvW then troll there. People like you let Arenanet reconsider there warriors changes and seriously 8% nerf are not even close to what this class should be nerfed to.

mini.6018:

HPLT.7132:

mini.6018:

It’s not mindless i use reason.People keep spamming their kitten comparing healing skills between them and never taking into consideration class mechanics and other sources of sustain other classes have wich make me think everyone else including yourself are just hardcore pvers that ocasinally get wrecked in spvp.

I told you ones I will tell you twice…Warriors is a kittening sustain beast.
If it would just be the signet but there is also at least 16 sec of stability , 8 sec of coniditon immunity, 5 sec of direct damage immunity, chain stun on hammer, condi remove on longbow, kittening heavy burning on longbow but also huge direct damage with longbow 5.

The healing signet is just the tip of the iceberg of that class but if you dont believe me because i am not famous enough for you check this:
http://www.twitch.tv/teldoo

Just 2 Quotes:
Teldo: “OMG warriors are the OP. 1 mistake and you are done”
Aszhene: “OMG why are warriors so kittening OP broken”

And now move out of this forum troll.

I will not move away because you are bad at the game and continue crying over and over.Warriors need all that sustain because they are melee dependant,very susceptable to kiting and very telegraphed skills.Also that sustain is not even real sustain because once the 10 seconds of OMG WAR OP are over they go down in 5 seconds if you actually have a brain.

This was true. In King of the Hill server.

In tourney it’s actually easier to get into melee, because of points, so people couldn’t just prolong the fight endlessly, and it was actually possible to get in melee range and damage them.

mini.6018:

If hps is all that matters why are not all guardians using the signet over shelter ?They will have the double healing with the signet plus a condition removal. Please explain to me?

Oh wait hps is not the only thing that counts in this game now go and reflect about that.

Well the entire post was about how chilled and delayed activation affects basically every healing skill except healing signet in some way, but I guess you’re not really into that whole reading comprehension or critical thinking thing.

LB is probably more kittened up then HS if you ask me. I’d rather see a complete revamp of that weapon system before you started messing too much with HS.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Were concerning to me. He said something along the lines of “we cant nerf healing signet that much because it will have a lower HPS than healing surge and then be useless”.

This concerns me because it shows that there is a disconnect between how they see the game being played and how it is played.

+1

nothing in the game has that much hps even at high skill and risk, and this one is top hps for passive, just need to be logged in. im very surprised to see warrior with such strong healing. say in wow healing was always dire for melee control classes, like rogues or even warriors. here warrior gets dps, control, armor and also healing. play-wise you can hammer melee and range bow dps probably just below ranger. warrior is superior in every type of engagement, what is supposed to be counter?

poison argument is also valid. in skilled play, if one is tracking healing skills cd and times poison, one can chop entire 33%. with signet you only chop prorated portion of poison uptime and even for poison rich builds (condi engi) its not continuous, not to say some builds have no access to poison at all.

mini.6018:

Arganthium.5638:

it takes more damage to reduce a warrior to 3k health than any other class in the game.

And again you prove to us in a blatantly obvious manner how little ideea you have about the game you are playing and how unfounded all your claims and ideeas are.

Literally Speachless.

If you’re talking about necromancer, it doesn’t have a 14% damage reduction and the heal is far inferior to that of warrior. Even without the heal, though, the warrior will by nature last longer from its base stats because virtually every attack deals some direct damage, and warrior can decrease that amount with its heavy armor.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Any decent player will cleanse poison before the heal, so in some cases poison = 0% decrease on healing.

I can make the argument that “any decent player will poison [his or her opponent] before the heal” as well. I know that I do, at least as often as possible.

Against HS poison is working from the first second you apply it on the warrior until he clean the poison. Lets say 8 seconds average with poison (assuming you poison the warrior after and not before he used his longbow burst) This means that his HS healed for 33% less for that time.

Yes, but 8 seconds is not the duration of a fight. In, say, a 15 second fight, that’s still about 1/6 of a total reduction.

I’m even being liberal here because most poisons don’t last 8 seconds, whether it be in theory or in practice. For instance, ranger’s SB usually only keeps you poisoned for 2-4 seconds. Necro’s Chillblains only keeps up poison for 6 seconds, and Putrid Curse for 4. Thief’s Choking Gas, for 5 seconds, and so on. With Cleansing Ire, those longer durations tend to be cut short extremely quickly anyways.

392 hps – 33% = 262 hps (with poison). In 8 seconds you managed to keep the warrior from healing 129 hps x 8seconds = 1032 less healing only with poison in 8 seconds. Not counting here the damage poison does by itself.

HS is way more afected with poison than other passive heals because its always active. No matter when or how you put poison on warrior, is healing is afected from the start.

Even with the 1032 healing reduction (which, again, is unrealistic anyways), HealSig will still tend to heal for more than most other heals in the game.

As for HealSig being affected from the start, that usually isn’t enough to make the heal much worse, and it isn’t nearly as effective as putting poison on a burst heal.

Lordrosicky.5813:

style.6173:

The problem isn’t the amount of the heal. The problem, as was stated on the dev live stream, is that it is “skill-less”. Personally, I’d like to see the passive side weakened quite a bit and the active buffed by a large amount. That would give people a reason to actually hit the 6 key.

An active that is really strong with ANY passive at all is just broken. Imagine fighting them. They regen over and over. Finally they heal for a ton when they use the active. Then they can start regenning again when the heal comes off cd again. The mere fact the skill has a passive makes it required for the active to be really bad or the whole thing will be even more broken.

Unless you mean the active heals for 6k and the passive ticks for 200. Then this would be fine sure (possibly, I havent really thought about it)

Yes, I mean something along the lines of your second paragraph. The passive should be there in a small way, but the active should be much stronger. The problem today is that the passive is amazing and the active is lackluster. It’s better to not even press 6.

Combined with Adrenal Health it is just simply too much.

It’s miles better than any other healing signet in the game. They don’t -need- it to be that high. The counters, poison and high burst, do not work, because they have too many ways to rid themselves of conditions, and they have too many ways to counter burst. There is no way around dealing with healing signet fairly except to 2v1 them.

That doesn’t mean they will win every 1v1, it just means that no matter the warrior build, if they have healing signet and adrenal health, it means that they will live long enough no matter what their build is and are better at accomplishing any role.

The current HPS of healing signet and adrenal health is neutering profession diversity in sPvP and tPvP since with those two things, you can put a warrior in any role and actually use different builds and be viable where as other professions who should excel at one particular role because of a lack of build diversity are outshined by warriors and not represented.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Lordrosicky.5813:

What I am saying is poison on a burst heal will hit the whole heal. Poison cannot be timed to be put on a warrior when they would want to heal. So poison has an effect but it is very minor vs such a passive heal because the heal is spread out over time.

minor? are you sure?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poison
Deals damage every second; heal potency decreased by 33%; stacks duration.

healing signet 392 × 0.64 = 250.88 per second
adrenal health 360 × 0.64 = 230.40 per 3 seconds

poison basically neuters healing signet to 250 health per second.

minor?

Are you just trolling on behalf of the warrior community, or are you truly blind to the arguments made?

Let’s assume the latter.

An active heal has roughly a 1 second cast time. Let’s say you can apply poison for 3 seconds every 10 seconds. A poison application with a 3 second duration reduces the effectiveness of that heal by 33%.
That same poison reduces HS effectiveness by 11%, since it can only reduce healing by one third 33% of the time.

Minor? Yes, minor.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Lordrosicky.5813:

What I am saying is poison on a burst heal will hit the whole heal. Poison cannot be timed to be put on a warrior when they would want to heal. So poison has an effect but it is very minor vs such a passive heal because the heal is spread out over time.

minor? are you sure?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poison
Deals damage every second; heal potency decreased by 33%; stacks duration.

healing signet 392 × 0.64 = 250.88 per second
adrenal health 360 × 0.64 = 230.40 per 3 seconds

poison basically neuters healing signet to 250 health per second.

minor?

Are you just trolling on behalf of the warrior community, or are you truly blind to the arguments made?

Let’s assume the latter.

An active heal has roughly a 1 second cast time. Let’s say you can apply poison for 3 seconds every 10 seconds. A poison application with a 3 second duration reduces the effectiveness of that heal by 33%.
That same poison reduces HS effectiveness by 11%, since it can only reduce healing by one third 33% of the time.

Minor? Yes, minor.

I didn’t know a 3 second posion existed in the game? Last time i checked thieves necros and engies could stack perma poison at e reaply rate of under 10 seconds.

The point is poison actually counters HS and doesnt do anything to other heals except if the target is braindead and doesn’t remove it before heal.Hence HS is far more susceptable to poison than any other heal in the game.

HS is certainly an offender, which has been mathematically shown to be stronger than almost any other heal in the game, with a very few exceptions. Exceptions that require infinitely more work, and/or optimal circumstances.

I don’t think HS is the biggest offender though. I think it’s just a contributing factor. Cleansing Ire is simply nuts. Especially considering how it interacts with burst skills that are AoE, and don’t have to actually hit anybody. The Longbow and Hammer burst skills need to be fundamentally changed, so that their AoE centers on the target, and then Cleansing Ire won’t trigger unless the target is hit.

Cleansing Ire should also probably remove 2 conditions at full adrenaline, 3 is simply way too much for a single trait investment, ESPECIALLY when you consider that the trait also grants adrenaline. No other class has to invest so little to get so much.

Let’s not talk about the high armor, high health, fantastic mobility package, and piles of stability. I do not begrudge Warriors those things, but when you add the top level sustain package to the highest stat baseline?

Each one of these things might be seen as “a bit stronger than average” when examined on an individual basis, by they snowball up into a pile of dominance that we’re definitely experiencing in the current meta.

I want Warriors to feel strong, but it’s fascinating to me how many Warriors convince themselves that the imbalance complaints of the other 87.5% of classes are based solely on their imagination. Really? Everybody’s just sharing this delusion that you’re the victim of? EVERYBODY else needs to L2P? REALLY?! How about some honest self examination? One time? For your boy?

The solution is pretty simple, cut the passive in half to 200 hps then buff the active to like 6k or something on a 30 second cooldown. That’s how all of the passive heals should work. Help you sustain till you really need it then heal a decent amount. Then no healing. No one should be able to survive on passive healing though and even at 200hps on healing sig the class would heal 320 passively with adrenal health.

While the math clearly supports that healing sig should be nerfed the class needs to have less passive healing as a whole. There simply aren’t conditions applied to warriors healing like there should be.

His reasoning explains a lot of ANet game-design decisions.

Aka…they really don’t get it.

In Jons world a passive ability needs to be more effective than an active one because it would otherwise be unviable.

Well at least the active skill can be interrupted and has a generally higher risk/reward attached to its use. But the devs don’t seem to “get it”.

Don’t disagree with you OP but I’m bored so I figured I’d try to write a post puzzling out all of J. Peter’s position on the matter.

1. They want the Warrior to be a front line class with the potential to survive that Guardian currently has.
2. Every class has a best-in-slot heal and then other heals that only do better in more synergistic situations. Healing Surge is versatile in the way that it also fuels the profession mechanic in certain builds, and Mending doubles as extra condi clear, so let’s making it Healing Signet. You can see this thought process on most of the other healing skills that classes commonly use, where if it’s versatile for more than just healing due to innate ability or trait support, it won’t be the best-in-slot heal for a majority of builds.
3. Now that we’ve created this thing and since then have had new players come in and rely on it, they don’t want to take it completely away unless absolutely necessary (like they felt when they nerfed Signet of Restoration, which is a decision I assume they regret making).

From there they realized:

1. It’s very synergistic with Cleansing Ire, but with the hammer damage nerf they can lock the most powerful build running Healing Signet into a known quantity that can be predicted/metagamed against until they come up with a more satisfying solution to it specifically.
2. They agree with the fact that it’s the healing over time that is the signet’s greatest strength, but they also want to preserve that strength; they want to keep a combination of active and passive effects in the game as seen with Spirit Ranger.
3. If they can get this right they can turn around and focus on Mending next.

You can also clearly see that now they’re afraid of heal slot signets considering how badly Signet of Vampirism came out. I’m assuming that it’ll get a buff in the same patch Healing Signet gets a nerf and Restoration gets buffed back to before. They might touch Signet of Malice and the new Mesmer signet as well.

Most of this can be easily picked apart but the devs are now trying to be more careful and are getting into a rhythm of balance updates every 3-4 months that they want to stick to. There’s also the issue that they’re literally balancing an entirely new version of the game; they aren’t just doing one change a time but doing a bunch of changes and are currently in test servers trying to balance those out against each other. They don’t want to introduce any tiny change ahead of time because it may have unintended consequences for certain builds or introduce a bug that isn’t seen on their test servers because that tiny change was originally made while being linked to other changes. And the easiest way to keep any of those possible worst case scenarios from happening and taking up extra dev time just to debugg and fix is to not indulge on what can easily become a slippery slope of hotfixes.

Personally I want to see one or two out of these choices made:

• Decouple the adrenaline gain from Cleansing Ire from the condition cleanse, and make them two separate traits in that trait line. It’s a further nerf to the current spec running Merciless Hammer along with Cleansing Ire.
• Alter the scaling for Healing Signet so that it has the current heal per second only if running a Cleric’s Amulet + Jewel. If they want them to be as tanky/survivable as a Bunker Guardian, have them make the same sacrifices damage wise. Instead of support they can be pumping out control.
• Figure out a satisfying way to get Cleansing Ire to not proc if you miss the initial hit of Combustive Shot and Flurry.

The first option is what I’d personally prefer. The third is probably what they’re going for but had to spend time making game engine alterations to the way those specific skills worked to do it.

So we are just going to pretend warriors dont have immunities on demand and dont even have to be vulnerable to cast their heal? Because I cant interrupt that heal, there is no counterplay besides the poison and even that doesnt suffice (cuz lololol stances).

If for them PVP is just a numbers game delete every class and leave just one so we can all have the same numbers and skills, now that would be fair.

They clearly pvp a lot…

mini.6018:

I didn’t know a 3 second posion existed in the game? Last time i checked thieves necros and engies could stack perma poison at e reaply rate of under 10 seconds.

The point is poison actually counters HS and doesnt do anything to other heals except if the target is braindead and doesn’t remove it before heal.Hence HS is far more susceptable to poison than any other heal in the game.

Let me get this straight.
If someone does not remove the poison before the heal, even if it is applied during the heal (which happens quite often with choking gas), it is braindead and deserves to get stomped, so it deserves less healing compared to a warrior which sits into choking gas the whole time without triggering cleansing ire once or using berserker stance a single time.

Your logic leaves me speechless.

I am not really sure what the drawbacks of healing signet is.

Pros:
-best HP/s
-No need to activate/can’t interrupt
-Synergizes with high armor/blocks/immunities really well
-Poison is less effective (only get pro-rated portion of effect, perma-poison is rarely possible unless you “shotgun” your poison nades)

Cons:
-Weak to “Continuous burst” (which, for the record, is not achievable). There is no burst in the game that can 1-shot a warrior, and given the nature of burst, the warrior will regen the damage and out-dps the burst player before he would be downed.

Also, I can confirm that my ele is unable to even out-dps this heal skill unless:
-Full Zerk s/d
-High arcane-use d/d, plus they are so mind-numbingly stupid they eat churning earth to the face.

Edit: I do agree, I feel that they under-value the addition Pros the skill has and over-value the cons, which are mitigated by natural class mechanics.

You have to be a glassy spec to kill a Warrior through his regen 1v1. Meanwhile, he will be dealing major damage to you(possibly 2-3 shot you), because you are glassy. On my Ele with soldiers, a Warrior can be AFK and outheal my damage. On my thief, using ZERKER amulet.. I can be firing my ranged weapon auto attack and #2 attack, and a warrior will outheal it with passive regen. Balanced!

I love it when Warriors say the “counter” is ‘continued burst damage’. Basically the counter to a Warrior is to Xv1 him, totally balanced!

The active needs to be more powerful than the passive.

Because of interrupt and timed poison risk is greater for active. Therefore reward must be greater.

Devs need to realize this.

sorrow.2364:

Let me get this straight.
If someone does not remove the poison before the heal, even if it is applied during the heal (which happens quite often with choking gas), it is braindead and deserves to get stomped, so it deserves less healing compared to a warrior which sits into choking gas the whole time without triggering cleansing ire once or using berserker stance a single time.

Your logic leaves me speechless.

lol, what are you playing, ele?

some builds dont have access to healing other then healing skill itself, or trait procs.

Jon Peters already told us Spirit Ranger is hard to play . . . A-Net has no connection to the reality of the game. Otherwise the past patches would have solved balance problems instead of creating more.

Btw, I have idea.
Rework HS to use adrenaline system (or add new healing skill).
Signet of Adrenal Health
Passive: 350-500 hps (to be decided, because we actually decreasing heal from Adrenal Health while passive is on, also passive makes pretty hard to land F1 skill with full effect from 3 bars of adrenaline), consuming 1 strike of adrenaline per second.
Active (25s): Consume all adrenaline with same health per adrenaline as passive.

So many bad ideeas and poor to no knowledge of the game.

If your ele is broken or have l2p issues ask to fix ele not cry about nerfing warriors

Warriors are a lot less powerfull than they were before december and they need to spec berserker to do damage.If you can’t do more than 400 dps on a berserker than just reroll.

All i see is bunker easymoder crying they can’t do enough damage wich is ridiculous since they already put out too much for their risk/reward ratio involved.

mini.6018:

So many bad ideeas and poor to no knowledge of the game.

If your ele is broken or have l2p issues ask to fix ele not cry about nerfing warriors

Warriors are a lot less powerfull than they were before december and they need to spec berserker to do damage.If you can’t do more than 400 dps on a berserker than just reroll.

All i see is bunker easymoder crying they can’t do enough damage wich is ridiculous since they already put out too much for their risk/reward ratio involved.

mini, just quit arguing.
It is quite obvious you have no clue whatsoever.

mini.6018:

So many bad ideeas and poor to no knowledge of the game.

If your ele is broken or have l2p issues ask to fix ele not cry about nerfing warriors

Warriors are a lot less powerfull than they were before december and they need to spec berserker to do damage.If you can’t do more than 400 dps on a berserker than just reroll.

All i see is bunker easymoder crying they can’t do enough damage wich is ridiculous since they already put out too much for their risk/reward ratio involved.

Funny how you never have anything to say besides “LOL L2P SCRUB”. Man. What a well thought out and convincing argument backed up by data and reasoning that is. If only there was some giant unbalanced handicap you could rely on for forum discussions in addition to pvp, because you obviously can’t cut it with just your own rhetorical skills.

mini.6018:

So many bad ideeas and poor to no knowledge of the game.

If your ele is broken or have l2p issues ask to fix ele not cry about nerfing warriors

Warriors are a lot less powerfull than they were before december and they need to spec berserker to do damage.If you can’t do more than 400 dps on a berserker than just reroll.

All i see is bunker easymoder crying they can’t do enough damage wich is ridiculous since they already put out too much for their risk/reward ratio involved.

You see here, mini, is that you are not arguing, at least not in the traditional sense of the word in which you have an argument that consists of several premises and a conclusion. In fact, in the above post you lack a single premise at all, and thus nobody can understand where you are coming from because you neglect to tell them.

Instead of simply stating your conclusions, it would most likely help your case to build a logical argument (preferably without obvious fallacies) that includes several premises, which the conclusion is derived from. You would do well to attempt the same in your rebuttals.

nerf passive, buff active

GW2 stronk

remove signet

Healing signet alone isn’t what makes it strong its when you pair it with the ridiculous condition removals that warriors gain topped off with high health and armor

Chicago Jack.5647:

A thief with choking gas and clusterbomb can kill a warrior easily if the warrior is afk.

This is going to be my new signature.

Lol soilder, have at it.

These are my reasons as to why HS is ridiculous, and and funnily enough its a direct counter argument to “other heals have other benefits”.

If you consider how passive it is, it turns many skills into a heal:
ie: dodges are now also a 400 heal (using 400hps, because its an easier number to work with)

enemy dodges are also a 400 heal
ether renewal (i play ele) is a 1.6K heal for the warrior, thats right my heal is a free heal for the warrior, whilst the warrior can still hit me!

now lets get onto skills,
Earthshaker: if lands 800 heal, if dodged (as warriors says learn to dodge) 400 heal
Staggering blow: 400 heal
Backbreaker: 800 heal

Shield Bash: if lands 400 heal, if dodged 400 heal
shield stance: 1.2k heal

Skull crack: 1.2 K heal

whirlwind: 400 heal

you guys get the idea, and this isn’t factoring things like combustion shot which people dodge or run from, or pindown against a melee might aswell also be a 1.2k heal

BlackBeard.2873:

I am not really sure what the drawbacks of healing signet is.

Pros:
-best HP/s
-No need to activate/can’t interrupt
-Synergizes with high armor/blocks/immunities really well
-Poison is less effective (only get pro-rated portion of effect, perma-poison is rarely possible unless you “shotgun” your poison nades)

Cons:
-Weak to “Continuous burst” (which, for the record, is not achievable). There is no burst in the game that can 1-shot a warrior, and given the nature of burst, the warrior will regen the damage and out-dps the burst player before he would be downed.

Also, I can confirm that my ele is unable to even out-dps this heal skill unless:
-Full Zerk s/d
-High arcane-use d/d, plus they are so mind-numbingly stupid they eat churning earth to the face.

Edit: I do agree, I feel that they under-value the addition Pros the skill has and over-value the cons, which are mitigated by natural class mechanics.

Another pro is aoe burning uptime from lb. If warriors didn’t have burning hs wouldn’t be as bad.

Amstel Steel.2058:

BlackBeard.2873:

I am not really sure what the drawbacks of healing signet is.

Pros:
-best HP/s
-No need to activate/can’t interrupt
-Synergizes with high armor/blocks/immunities really well
-Poison is less effective (only get pro-rated portion of effect, perma-poison is rarely possible unless you “shotgun” your poison nades)

Cons:
-Weak to “Continuous burst” (which, for the record, is not achievable). There is no burst in the game that can 1-shot a warrior, and given the nature of burst, the warrior will regen the damage and out-dps the burst player before he would be downed.

Also, I can confirm that my ele is unable to even out-dps this heal skill unless:
-Full Zerk s/d
-High arcane-use d/d, plus they are so mind-numbingly stupid they eat churning earth to the face.

Edit: I do agree, I feel that they under-value the addition Pros the skill has and over-value the cons, which are mitigated by natural class mechanics.

Another pro is aoe burning uptime from lb. If warriors didn’t have burning hs wouldn’t be as bad.

I completely agree with you in regards to burning uptime. Only the warrior class can get a 9 second fire field on a 10 second cd that can easily apply perma aoe burning on a nice 360 radius. I always thought it was unfair.

Lol that sounds about right with some of the things they said. Anet you could lower the passive heal on while buffing the base healing on surge to promote more active play/counter play. Nope can’t do that wouldn’t have enough bps. Well yeah at first….but after they rebind their healing skill then it’ll work out. Nope esports.

Lol poison as a counter, cleansing ire, melandru, Lyssa= gg. In no way am I calling those op. I would say Lyssa is biased towards classes with shorter elite cd though.

If they are a silly face tank war then yeah you can eventually out dps them, but lately wars have become the visible teefs. Use their movement skills and it’s lol good try but bye. I also play wvw where it’s kinda more prominent so I kinda am a little biased there.

Lower passive healing while buffing surge

Or add disadvantages while signet is passive can’t interrupt opponents healing skill

THE MAIN REASON IS THAT AN ACTIVE HEAL U CAN OVERHEAL (= U heal more than your max hp: eg You have 90% of HP max, the skill heals you 20% of max HP, but you only receive 10%HP, you lose 10%hp max) ,

Unlike PASSIVE HEAL: that why passive heal is GOD, passive heal is 100% benefit;

Soilder.3607:

Amstel Steel.2058:

BlackBeard.2873:

I am not really sure what the drawbacks of healing signet is.

Pros:
-best HP/s
-No need to activate/can’t interrupt
-Synergizes with high armor/blocks/immunities really well
-Poison is less effective (only get pro-rated portion of effect, perma-poison is rarely possible unless you “shotgun” your poison nades)

Cons:
-Weak to “Continuous burst” (which, for the record, is not achievable). There is no burst in the game that can 1-shot a warrior, and given the nature of burst, the warrior will regen the damage and out-dps the burst player before he would be downed.

Also, I can confirm that my ele is unable to even out-dps this heal skill unless:
-Full Zerk s/d
-High arcane-use d/d, plus they are so mind-numbingly stupid they eat churning earth to the face.

Edit: I do agree, I feel that they under-value the addition Pros the skill has and over-value the cons, which are mitigated by natural class mechanics.

Another pro is aoe burning uptime from lb. If warriors didn’t have burning hs wouldn’t be as bad.

I completely agree with you in regards to burning uptime. Only the warrior class can get a 9 second fire field on a 10 second cd that can easily apply perma aoe burning on a nice 360 radius. I always thought it was unfair.

Well I didn’t want to put benefits of other skills because they aren’t healing signet itself. However, a 9s fire-field on 10s cd that also wipes 3 condis does exacerbate the problem of healing signet. That does get to one of the core issues:

Healing signet sustain (great vs. physical dps) + Cleansing Ire insane cleansing (best of any class from traits – even ele Cleansing Water is WORSE, on a squishy class, when you take 2-3 other traits to make it worthwhile) + condi immunity + stuns (the weakness of condi classes) make warrior’s good against EVERYTHING.

There was a time when they were weak to some things. Now they are weak to none.

Please make warriors free kills again please!

Its really frustrating to see so many reasons and good mentions of what is making warriors meta changing right now and yet, see Arena net do/say exactly nothing…

SonofNoob.3102:

Please make warriors free kills again please!

No one is asking for a ‘free’ kill, but could we at least get a coupon? The price is a bit high…

Mightymealworm.8409:

SonofNoob.3102:

Please make warriors free kills again please!

No one is asking for a ‘free’ kill, but could we at least get a coupon? The price is a bit high…

The price isn’t high, you’re paying in the wrong currency.

HPLT.7132:

I am not crying. I bring up fact…Your 3 last post after I posted some maths is:
“You dont consider this and that” but you cant give examples…you just post over and over again that I am just a bad player. However I cant see you in the top1000 which means you dont do PVP and if you go WvWvW then troll there. People like you let Arenanet reconsider there warriors changes and seriously 8% nerf are not even close to what this class should be nerfed to.

well my healing signet didn’t save me from dying when i fought against Necromancer with minions Power + Condi? my so called OP zerker stance and HS i melt in seconds

jayson.6512:

HPLT.7132:

I am not crying. I bring up fact…Your 3 last post after I posted some maths is:
“You dont consider this and that” but you cant give examples…you just post over and over again that I am just a bad player. However I cant see you in the top1000 which means you dont do PVP and if you go WvWvW then troll there. People like you let Arenanet reconsider there warriors changes and seriously 8% nerf are not even close to what this class should be nerfed to.

well my healing signet didn’t save me from dying when i fought against Necromancer with minions Power + Condi? my so called OP zerker stance and HS i melt in seconds

Healing Signet was unable to save you from certain death ?!?
I suppose they should revise it then, so that you may survive every encounter possible!!
J/K :P

On a more serious note, I would like to see healing signet having a condition that needs to be fulfilled to in order to provide the healing; I find it kind of strange why it has the highest healing output out of all the signets, yet there is no pre requisite to its activation.
Ele Signet = Casting spells
Thief = Dealing Damage
Mesmer = Keeping illusions up

All those signets have a pre requisite that helps keep them in check, its daunting why the warrior is the only class that just gets a free passive heal from his signet, a long with immune skills.

I know a lot of the discussion revolves around the fact that they are still kill-able so healing signet receiving more nerfs isn’t really warranted.
The thing is for the amount of damage / pressure they deal; they are waaay to sustained, compared to classes in the same damage board.
Warrior isn’t really a viable target in team fights, due to the high sustain and immune’s they have; yet the pressure they deal makes them hard to ignore.
I find that to be unbalanced, any class that is able to deal high amounts of damage, should not have so much sustain; and have it be passive to boot.

The passive sustain means that the warrior never needs to worry about getting his heal interrupted, they never need to worry about going defensive to get their heal cast off; which means they can deal a steady stream of pressure, and even allows them to play reckless at times, with little to no punishment, and what little punishment you dish out, will be passively sustained.

I find it worrying that people are able to defend something that is so clearly over the top; passive sustain of that magnitude should never be made available to a class that can deal great hybrid damage, has some of the best CC in the game, the highest amount of immune skills, has a large hp pool along with great defensive stats, and has great condition clear to boot.
Why would a class that has all those attributes also require such a huge amount of passive sustain, it only helps amplify the amount of CC and damage they can dish out.

What I suggest is to either give warriors a pre-requisite to their signet passive activation, or heavily nerfing the passive and giving the activation a secondary effect.

keep in mind I haven’t revised any of those numbers these are just suggestions
HS
100 hps at 0 Adrenaline
200 hps at 1 Adrenaline
300 hps at 2 Adrenaline
400 hps at 3 Adrenaline
Active
Heals the warrior for 2.7k
Heals for 800 more for each stage of Adrenaline
<I do understand that the above brings it closer to Adrenal Healing, but I am just bouncing ideas here>

Or

Make the passive heal for 150 hps the passive persists through the activation, but we could look at increasing the activation substantially.
Activation = 6k

All I am trying to say here is give warrior sustain some form of counter play; and to all the people saying poison; I would hardly say that is counter play I think that people in this thread have explained that far better than I could so lets just leave it at that.

It’s extremely difficult for any class to fight hambow warrior on a point.
The HUGE fire field, their sustain, large HP pool, immobilization, interrupts, (and the sword bug). Berserker stance is broken especially with Lyssa runes that procs every 60seconds. Losing all conditions AND gain all boons (especially stability and aegis) is just outrageous.

Lyssa runes need a 90second internal cool down, in my opinion. I don’t think ANET ever considered having it proc every 45sec or 60sec. Runes should not define any class, but in this meta Lyssa runes is just as broken as healing signet.

mini.6018:

Arganthium.5638:

it takes more damage to reduce a warrior to 3k health than any other class in the game.

And again you prove to us in a blatantly obvious manner how little ideea you have about the game you are playing and how unfounded all your claims and ideeas are.

Literally Speachless.

I am thinking he has never played against a necro or engineer.

Healing signet is broken. They have admitted it. They scream no-no-no every time someone actually wants to press their healing skill. What it ticks for is not the problem. It has no counter play is not the issue. The is a long list of powerful things in this game that have no counter play. Stealth has no animation. Deathshroud has no cast. All Ranger skills share the same posturing. Rangers can attack at range while their pets melee up close. They have the best of both worlds and there is no way to prevent or stop any of this from happening. The big, big issue is that the development staff have admitted it is a mistake to use the active heal on healing signet. Mr peters is correct in saying that the active should by rights be attractive to use in situations, but if it heals less than what the cooldown period would have generated then it becomes useless compared with healing surge. Tghis means warrior’s have gone from only use one heal to again only using one heal. This ultimately makes the profession as a whole, and therefore the game considering there is only one purpose build heavy melee damage profession worst off. Too many people wanna see nerfs that ultimately ruin the game to to satisfy their ego because they had issues doing 5K base damage over 11 seconds consistently. The new generation of people..make it easier, don’t force me to get better.

December.3946:

It’s extremely difficult for any class to fight hambow warrior on a point.
The HUGE fire field, their sustain, large HP pool, immobilization, interrupts, (and the sword bug). Berserker stance is broken especially with Lyssa runes that procs every 60seconds. Losing all conditions AND gain all boons (especially stability and aegis) is just outrageous.

Lyssa runes need a 90second internal cool down, in my opinion. I don’t think ANET ever considered having it proc every 45sec or 60sec. Runes should not define any class, but in this meta Lyssa runes is just as broken as healing signet.

How bout on extremely high spike damage, with multiple sources of stealth?..this is what all thieve’s have with venoms. Only hammer warrior has what your mentioning. This whole argument has nothing to do with healing signet at all. Thieve’s can produce healing per dagger swing and in stealth making lyssa and passive healing more stronger on paper for them than it is for warrior. Another warrior hate without looking at the actual facts that what you are complaining about is more exploitable on other professions than the one this forum is meant to be about.