Guild Wars 2

I present you the meta. This is high gold/low plat. And DHs on my team were sooooooooooo bad too, 0 map awareness (running around on road while enemy is decapping our point in front of them, ignored all my pings too), 0 focus, literary carried by aoe spam on point and me constantly murdering enemy thief and not letting him decap. They really didn’t deserve the win.

Dear Anet, do something about DHs – the class is sooo stupidly rewarding and easy to play that it allows players with 0 understanding of pvp actually win games.

Oh stop it… Everyone know DH is perfectly balanced. Don’t believe your lying eyes, I tell ya!

I play ele and warrior and depending on comp i switch. For instance more then 2 DHs i switch to ele and 1 game when they had a 3 DH team, 2 of them switched before the match started.

Im getting more matches like this, anytime there is 2 mesmers and a thief or 2 thieves and a mesmer i feel its a loss.

I dont get why ppl still think DHs are OP. They’re good in team fights and the symbolic version has good 1v1 ability but they’re slow and do mediocre damage unless you’re forced onto a small point. I used to keep my dh ready as an alt to ranger but its not as important to a team as the 1st ele, druid, and thief. I think its also less important than a necro, but not totally sure.

Paprikaspice.8462:

I dont get why ppl still think DHs are OP. They’re good in team fights and the symbolic version has good 1v1 ability but they’re slow and do mediocre damage unless you’re forced onto a small point. I used to keep my dh ready as an alt to ranger but its not as important to a team as the 1st ele, druid, and thief. I think its also less important than a necro, but not totally sure.

yeah too bad pvp in this game is all about point holding~

mediocre dmg, good joke

Paprikaspice.8462:

I dont get why ppl still think DHs are OP. They’re good in team fights and the symbolic version has good 1v1 ability but they’re slow and do mediocre damage unless you’re forced onto a small point. I used to keep my dh ready as an alt to ranger but its not as important to a team as the 1st ele, druid, and thief. I think its also less important than a necro, but not totally sure.

Low skill floor/ceiling that over rewards players is the problem. Multiple DH’s throwing down traps on a point is absolutely broken at times.

The system is currently balanced at high levels of play where only 1 per each class can be on each team. Now regular seasons do not have the no stack clause and since you can’t 5 man queue anymore you also remove the highly organized factor.

You start to see the problem?

From my experience it’s pretty much random whether the team with more dh will win or not. To me, the difference between a win or a lose in a match depends more on:

1. whether the team focuses the same target or not
2. if the team focuses the right target
3. if most members on the team rotate correctly
4. whether 1v1s are won or not
5. and finally, a team with more dh is more likely to win if the opposing team has thfs, mesmers and too many necros and not enough support. a team with more scrappers, warriors, eles and druids suffers less penalty for facing dhs.

On most of the maps DH stacking is an instant win. You can’t outrotate them because it takes to long to capture a point when a DH is at it.
You can’t really kite while getting shot with a long bow and you can’t stay on point with the traps damaging you. There is not a real counter to this. If you need to outnumber them every time you are most likely to lose another base.

The balancing of DH this season is by far the worst of any season this year. Not even the bunker meta was this bad.

The anectodal statements here about whoever has the most DHs win is out of control. DHs are really easy to kill. The problem in my opinion is that they were so kitten down by Eles and reflects that when things were changed people expected to just faceroll them again.

This is still nothing more than a l2p issue and nothing more. With that said, I still believe they need to put in stacking restrictions.

phokus.8934:

The anectodal statements here about whoever has the most DHs win is out of control. DHs are really easy to kill. The problem in my opinion is that they were so kitten down by Eles and reflects that when things were changed people expected to just faceroll them again.

This is still nothing more than a l2p issue and nothing more. With that said, I still believe they need to put in stacking restrictions.

Every beginner and the mama is playing DH and succeeding with it. A class that requires so little skill to play should not be a thing. Focus them and they melt like Olaf in a sauna.
We get it.

Doesn’t mean that the class is not too easy to play. L2PEZ (Learn to Play Easy)

They’re “succeeding” because the people they go up against are not playing smart. There’s no denying that a lot of DH play plays itself through trap but there’s a ceiling for the player.

Azukas.1426:

Paprikaspice.8462:

I dont get why ppl still think DHs are OP. They’re good in team fights and the symbolic version has good 1v1 ability but they’re slow and do mediocre damage unless you’re forced onto a small point. I used to keep my dh ready as an alt to ranger but its not as important to a team as the 1st ele, druid, and thief. I think its also less important than a necro, but not totally sure.

Low skill floor/ceiling that over rewards players is the problem. Multiple DH’s throwing down traps on a point is absolutely broken at times.

The system is currently balanced at high levels of play where only 1 per each class can be on each team. Now regular seasons do not have the no stack clause and since you can’t 5 man queue anymore you also remove the highly organized factor.

You start to see the problem?

There is no problem as far as DHs are concerned because stacking them is a bad idea. They cant rotate and they do less damage than necros. Their dmg is also easily countered. If youre facing a dh that runs more than 2 traps, just pop your invuln, block, or stab. Get off point if you have to, you can wait out the trap and still prevent a decap. If theyre running only test of faith, they do solid but not great damage. They have significantly more survivability than necros with this set up but significantly less dmg.

DHs are still in the same place as last season. They dont do top dmg, cant beat the true 1v1 champs like druids, and cant rotate. Theyre just pretty good at dmg, and can beat non 1v1 champs in 1v1.

I think removing the daze on traps has changed dragons maw significantly. I have to test more but i think it can be dodged on reaction. Most dhs dont run this anyway.

after the daze nerf i think they are fine. even i was annoyed when i got locked down by daze for a team to kill me. but after that traps are much less serious.

I guess the question is: Do we enjoy seeing 4 or 5 in every other match? I don’t mind it because Remorseless LB/GS Druid chews them up like the noobs they are. But, one must ask…

Is this healthy for the game?

I think the daze nerf was a step in the right direction, but I still feel like DH is too powerful.
Personally I feel like it’s because of their unblockable attacks also being their strongest attacks… which also have strong CC in them.

I don’t know what all the fuss is about, the moat DH I’ve seen in a match is 4, and mot all on one team. Once there traps are gone they are as good as dead. I don’t play a trap guard because they are so easy to beat, I find it funny when a burn guard can beat them and it’s not even the “meta” build but to me a much better build as you can apply so much more pressure anywhere on the map, and your not tied to just camping on point. You can be more useful.

glenndevis.8327:

I think the daze nerf was a step in the right direction, but I still feel like DH is too powerful.
Personally I feel like it’s because of their unblockable attacks also being their strongest attacks… which also have strong CC in them.

DH has one unblockable attack. Not multiple. Maybe you’re thinking about how Rev can make their next 2 attacks unblockable?

mrauls.6519:

glenndevis.8327:

I think the daze nerf was a step in the right direction, but I still feel like DH is too powerful.
Personally I feel like it’s because of their unblockable attacks also being their strongest attacks… which also have strong CC in them.

DH has one unblockable attack. Not multiple. Maybe you’re thinking about how Rev can make their next 2 attacks unblockable?

Soft capping class stacking to max 3 could help.

mrauls.6519:

glenndevis.8327:

I think the daze nerf was a step in the right direction, but I still feel like DH is too powerful.
Personally I feel like it’s because of their unblockable attacks also being their strongest attacks… which also have strong CC in them.

DH has one unblockable attack. Not multiple. Maybe you’re thinking about how Rev can make their next 2 attacks unblockable?

-Test of Faith trap
-F1
-bow #3

And all 3 can be used in combination to deal more damage

glenndevis.8327:

mrauls.6519:

glenndevis.8327:

I think the daze nerf was a step in the right direction, but I still feel like DH is too powerful.
Personally I feel like it’s because of their unblockable attacks also being their strongest attacks… which also have strong CC in them.

DH has one unblockable attack. Not multiple. Maybe you’re thinking about how Rev can make their next 2 attacks unblockable?

-Test of Faith trap
-F1
-bow #3

And all 3 can be used in combination to deal more damage

Haha, I competely forgot about ToF and LB #3. What part of ToF is unblockable? The initial trap activation or the “sword circle”?

DH’s are the new turret engis. Passive gameplay, great control, little skill needed, and none in the proleagues. Honestly, the only thing that needs fixed is test of faith. The rest is fine

DHs are just OP.

traps and can pull you in insta kills or darn close
1200 range hitting for 7500 on true shot 3500 on others.

psh yeah. no skill bubbies

Dh’s are not the problem ill say again its match making.

Let me recap this match, at the start one thief ran to our home. Our Dh grabbed home and 1 ele stayed to help. 3 vs 4 at mid and we lost.

We take the lead and we have mid and far, i say force them to come to us and 2 went to our home we take home and i lose far. 1 ele decides to go for beast at our home, i run far. We lose mid and i take far, they decap our home and the ele dies trying to take beast.

That is not a DH issue that is a player issue. Also i was like 17 points for this game. Had i won with that amount i be in platinum again. That is wrong with the season, players who are running menders shout/support ele trying to take beast instead of keepiong the cap point.

Lastly the ele saying I the warrior is getting 1 shotted, total B.S. At far i was engaged in a 1 vs 2 and i dropped both. He/she helped of course sustaining me but a thief ran over bursted them down and i wnet for the stomp and they SR both downed players and the ele mists formed away from me.

I can blame Anet for alot of things and match making is one of them. When you have a player that has no idea what there role is and its ruining my rating.

kdaddy.5431:

We take the lead and we have mid and far, i say force them to come to us and 2 went to our home we take home and i lose far. 1 ele decides to go for beast at our home, i run far. We lose mid and i take far, they decap our home and the ele dies trying to take beast.

Sounds to me like you should have traded far for home + mid and helped that ele so he could return to to whatever point he was on.

Anyway, your anectodal gameplay example really doesnt matter – individual class balance issues and matchup based player issues is two different things.

so a heavy who has access to

heavy burns and other condis
huge AOE unblockable point burst
CC (pulls) pushes
several skills to block for multiple seconds at a time
huge heals
1200 range backstab damage (true shot)
heavy armor (toughness)
teleports

def a lil much. but its ok bc DH dont really bleed people so it balances out (sarcasm)

Travlane.5948:

but its ok bc DH dont really bleed people so it balances out (sarcasm)

Next patch:

- Nerfed damage on traps by 10%
- Added 3 stacks of 10s bleed on longbow auto-attack to make up for the nerf.

Because DH!

Also, gyros no longer do any damage for scrapper. Nothing added.

If they tone down some of the unblockable stuff on DH might be a bit more balanced. Most classes have to actually take stuff to get unblockable but DH is like naturally 3 skills are unblockable which is a little bit OP I reckon.

I don’t see a problem with DH burns, they actually have to trait for that and run glass to get insane burns.

DH overall is sorta fine, just small tweaks then it’ll be good imo. Low tier DHs are so bad, the reason they look OP is because people run straight into the traps and die lol.

run straight into traps? u mean on points where anet tells us we HAVE TO go to win?

i mean pvp is literally set up for DH right now. most literally. they have everything but bleeds all in the same build. medicore mobility too to be honest.

they should make backstab unblockable. thatll level the field.

Instead of going into the forums and complain, you could have thought a way to counter 3+ guards? Play warrior with signet of might, pistol/pistol theif absoutely destroys stacking guardians. And last is Engineer, they outsustain guardians and will eventually kill them. But these are just my tools to beat guardians, you still have to understand the build and beaware what to avoid and when to burst. You cannot just go in and blow all your skills without checking when the enemy has up. I meet so many guardians in my low platinum games, where they use their heal trap at full hp, their F3 at the start of the fight and i just sit back and wait it out.

Heh, maybe if the points were like four times as big so a trap could not cover the whole thing?

yes dadefyl. that would make more sense
2x bigger wouldnt be that much IMO

and yes i can beat guardians 80% of the time but problem is time. PPT (points per tick) during that time never equal out.

Dawdler.8521:

kdaddy.5431:

We take the lead and we have mid and far, i say force them to come to us and 2 went to our home we take home and i lose far. 1 ele decides to go for beast at our home, i run far. We lose mid and i take far, they decap our home and the ele dies trying to take beast.

Sounds to me like you should have traded far for home + mid and helped that ele so he could return to to whatever point he was on.

Anyway, your anectodal gameplay example really doesnt matter – individual class balance issues and matchup based player issues is two different things.

Im not rotating from points we own when we have a 2 cap with 2 eles. Why not defend them instead of a non DPS class go to take a point we dont own? If im winning the 1 vs 1, with support im gonna win the 2 vs 2. People over think it.

Also no DH is not a problem. Its countered by so many things and it comes down to timing and other things.

For instance someone on this thread posted a twitch stream of caed after a necro cried about his team mates. In that twitch Caed the thief killed both necros in like 10 sec. Before he engaged them he said something like ok here is the class that can give me problems. Then he said ohh he isnt very good.

Also the warrior from TCG/denial rolled a DH and won his 1 vs 1 with a scrapper and a warrior and the very next match got beat against a rev and a warrior.

Its a match making issue not a OP issue.

yup for some classes traps hurt so much that a simple steal from a thief would get you down, I would like a way to spot traps using a skill like [detection pulse] on a decent cd

Travlane.5948:

so a heavy who has access to

heavy burns and other condis
huge AOE unblockable point burst
CC (pulls) pushes
several skills to block for multiple seconds at a time
huge heals
1200 range backstab damage (true shot)
heavy armor (toughness)
teleports

def a lil much. but its ok bc DH dont really bleed people so it balances out (sarcasm)

Now of a DH could do all of that well and at the same time you would be right, bit it can’t. Really if you can’t handle a DH 1vs1 then you need to get better. I’ve been playing Burn guard just because DH trapper takes no brain to play, the amount of trap DH my burn guard eats is funny. Of you use your head, you will kill a DH easy. If you’re dumb enough to try and face tank the traps then it’s your own fault that you keep losing.

Travlane.5948:

so a heavy who has access to

heavy burns and other condis
huge AOE unblockable point burst
CC (pulls) pushes
several skills to block for multiple seconds at a time
huge heals
1200 range backstab damage (true shot)
heavy armor (toughness)
teleports

def a lil much. but its ok bc DH dont really bleed people so it balances out (sarcasm)

-Burn is barely their own condition
-the only unblockable skills are ToF, F1 and Deflecting shot, none of which do much damage and especially not “on point” (unless you are bad enaugh to step in and out of tof)
-cc is very average, F1 has 40sec cd, you have to trait for LB and Dragons Maw takes away a lot of survivability
-Huge heals is actually true. Imo you should require more healing power but then it can stay about the same. Not using any Healing Power is way too rewarding.
-True shot? Really?
-Heavy armor? So what? Ever seen warriors?
-Teleports…well…it’s a skill they have. No idea what’s the problem with that. You may not have noticed but guardian is really weak in terms of mobility and doesn’t have a real viable way to get swiftness.

Basically you’ve counted up the advantages of 3 different possible DH builds (and even more which was just plain bs) while completely ignoring their weakness.
If you go full damage, including LB and Dragons Maw you sacrifice a lot of survivability. while it’s still very easy to evade or block your traps.
DH is very weak to cc. You basically never play with more than 1 stunbreaker and if you have the DH cc’d its also very easy to play around their F3 block.
And very high condi pressure is also a pretty good counter combined with enaugh cc.

Entenkommando.5208:

Travlane.5948:

so a heavy who has access to

heavy burns and other condis
huge AOE unblockable point burst
CC (pulls) pushes
several skills to block for multiple seconds at a time
huge heals
1200 range backstab damage (true shot)
heavy armor (toughness)
teleports

def a lil much. but its ok bc DH dont really bleed people so it balances out (sarcasm)

-Burn is barely their own condition
-the only unblockable skills are ToF, F1 and Deflecting shot, none of which do much damage and especially not “on point” (unless you are bad enaugh to step in and out of tof)
-cc is very average, F1 has 40sec cd, you have to trait for LB and Dragons Maw takes away a lot of survivability
-Huge heals is actually true. Imo you should require more healing power but then it can stay about the same. Not using any Healing Power is way too rewarding.
-True shot? Really?
-Heavy armor? So what? Ever seen warriors?
-Teleports…well…it’s a skill they have. No idea what’s the problem with that. You may not have noticed but guardian is really weak in terms of mobility and doesn’t have a real viable way to get swiftness.

Basically you’ve counted up the advantages of 3 different possible DH builds (and even more which was just plain bs) while completely ignoring their weakness.
If you go full damage, including LB and Dragons Maw you sacrifice a lot of survivability. while it’s still very easy to evade or block your traps.
DH is very weak to cc. You basically never play with more than 1 stunbreaker and if you have the DH cc’d its also very easy to play around their F3 block.
And very high condi pressure is also a pretty good counter combined with enaugh cc.

QFT.

only thing I’m bothered with is that their trap CD starts refreshing when they put they on the floor rather than when they are triggered.

yes they can literally have all that in same build. maybe not in abundance….. but its all there

Travlane.5948:

so a heavy who has access to

heavy burns and other condis
huge AOE unblockable point burst
CC (pulls) pushes
several skills to block for multiple seconds at a time
huge heals
1200 range backstab damage (true shot)
heavy armor (toughness)
teleports

def a lil much. but its ok bc DH dont really bleed people so it balances out (sarcasm)

LOL, this is the tipical DH hate post, i have no idea on DH.
all classes have similar acces to such thinks, you are talking of at least 4 difent builds, and no one have acces at all at a time, heavy burning needs a build entirely dedicated to it and sacrifices range(they dont use LB, they use sword,focus, scepter and torch), traps, cc (if they use f1 lose the burn in every 3 atacks and they only burn other damage is anecdotic in burn guard)…
and so for the others builds
but how you dont have idea on DH and you can find in one match of stacked DHs all the diferent builds you think one can do all, burn you, cc you, trap you and shoting you whith the LB

Travlane.5948:

yes they can literally have all that in same build. maybe not in abundance….. but its all there

“heavy burns and other condis” “maybe not in abundance” “true shot (DH power-based)” you wanna, you know, maybe re-evaluate what you’re tryna say here?

no im pretty clear. thanks.

megilandil.7506:

Travlane.5948:

so a heavy who has access to

heavy burns and other condis
huge AOE unblockable point burst
CC (pulls) pushes
several skills to block for multiple seconds at a time
huge heals
1200 range backstab damage (true shot)
heavy armor (toughness)
teleports

def a lil much. but its ok bc DH dont really bleed people so it balances out (sarcasm)

LOL, this is the tipical DH hate post, i have no idea on DH.
all classes have similar acces to such thinks, you are talking of at least 4 difent builds, and no one have acces at all at a time, heavy burning needs a build entirely dedicated to it and sacrifices range(they dont use LB, they use sword,focus, scepter and torch), traps, cc (if they use f1 lose the burn in every 3 atacks and they only burn other damage is anecdotic in burn guard)…
and so for the others builds
but how you dont have idea on DH and you can find in one match of stacked DHs all the diferent builds you think one can do all, burn you, cc you, trap you and shoting you whith the LB

I actually had no idea myself about Guardian/Dragon Hunter before. So i started playing it a bit lately just to see what it’s all about and/or how to counter it.

But now I know how they work, what Travlane said in his post is pretty accurate. Dragon hunter does have all that in 1 single build.
Minus the burning. you actually need a more burn dedicated build for that, which makes you lack other things. Then again, burn DHs aren’t problematic or “op” at all.

The 1 think DH really lacks is mobility.
And their 1 real counter is getting bursted down while being CCed. And most of hem have at least 2stunbreaks. sometimes even 3. So yeah.

glenndevis.8327:

The 1 think DH really lacks is mobility.

Why would you ever need mobility when the only thing you are supposed to stand on is the same size as your AoE?

Imagine how it would be if every point was the size of mid foefire.

Mind blown.

Dawdler.8521:

glenndevis.8327:

The 1 think DH really lacks is mobility.

Why would you ever need mobility when the only thing you are supposed to stand on is the same size as your AoE?

Imagine how it would be if every point was the size of mid foefire.

Mind blown.

Exactly. Like I said, mobility is something they lack, but by no means is it something they need to be viable.

I don’t like the way traps work in general in PvP.
DH traps lack counterplay. (in PvP)

I think a lot of this discussion isn’t taking into account the fact that DH/Guard has the lowest base health pool in the game. I’m not going to deny DH is powerful right now, and they probably need a couple things looked at, but DH falls really, really fast once you break their defenses. Low base HP also severely limits the choice a DH has for amulets as you’re pretty much forced to take vitality somewhere, meaning you can’t have as many other stats as some classes. There ARE drawbacks to playing DH.

That being said, I’d say traps could maybe use an increase in cast time to start, so it’s not as easy to nuke players with them offensively. I think their power is fine, but they’re a bit too easy to spam currently. I also agree class-stacking is a problem and needs to be addressed, it’s not fun playing a match with 7 DH between 2 teams.

Blizzmaster.9163:

I think a lot of this discussion isn’t taking into account the fact that DH/Guard has the lowest base health pool in the game. I’m not going to deny DH is powerful right now, and they probably need a couple things looked at, but DH falls really, really fast once you break their defenses. Low base HP also severely limits the choice a DH has for amulets as you’re pretty much forced to take vitality somewhere, meaning you can’t have as many other stats as some classes. There ARE drawbacks to playing DH.

That being said, I’d say traps could maybe use an increase in cast time to start, so it’s not as easy to nuke players with them offensively. I think their power is fine, but they’re a bit too easy to spam currently. I also agree class-stacking is a problem and needs to be addressed, it’s not fun playing a match with 7 DH between 2 teams.

the apropiate change on traps is not add a casting time (guardians have bloks to ensure setting it properly), the most apropiate, i think, is shorten the cd of traps, but adding a second cd, longer, on activation, you can replace your unused trap easily, but if activated you cant drop a second in the same place imediatly, and this is the major issue as trap as major point denial, a trap preset on point and replaced imediatly for other on activation

Blizzmaster.9163:

I think a lot of this discussion isn’t taking into account the fact that DH/Guard has the lowest base health pool in the game. I’m not going to deny DH is powerful right now, and they probably need a couple things looked at, but DH falls really, really fast once you break their defenses. Low base HP also severely limits the choice a DH has for amulets as you’re pretty much forced to take vitality somewhere, meaning you can’t have as many other stats as some classes. There ARE drawbacks to playing DH.

That being said, I’d say traps could maybe use an increase in cast time to start, so it’s not as easy to nuke players with them offensively. I think their power is fine, but they’re a bit too easy to spam currently. I also agree class-stacking is a problem and needs to be addressed, it’s not fun playing a match with 7 DH between 2 teams.

That is a lie. Ele and thieves have same HP pool and they go down way faster than DH. I don’t see them covering entire point in stackable persistent aoe doing backstab damage with secondary utility.

megilandil.7506:

the apropiate change on traps is not add a casting time (guardians have bloks to ensure setting it properly), the most apropiate, i think, is shorten the cd of traps, but adding a second cd, longer, on activation, you can replace your unused trap easily, but if activated you cant drop a second in the same place imediatly, and this is the major issue as trap as major point denial, a trap preset on point and replaced imediatly for other on activation

Not only appropriate, but the logical one – its the exact same way they handled gyros. Once, long ago when Anet still loved the class, the gyros went on cooldown as you activated them. Meaning you could pop another once they died. Just like how double DH traps is now, it was unfortunetly considered too OP. Maybe rightfully so. And thus they chopped off their figurative legs.

The only difference is unlike the scrapper, Anet still loves their precious OP DH. So it will be a cold day in hell before we see traps go on cooldown when they are triggered.

Nerf dh traps or if u wont nerf their survivability

Personally I don’t have a problem with DH/Guardian (I main mesmer). Nor do I have any problem with any other class. I agree that the classes are terribly unbalanced, but do not have knowledge of all classes to give any constructive feedback on how to fix that.

What I do have problem with, like many others, is class stacking. Two or more of any class can make a match problematic. Truly don’t understand why the same conditions for pro league aren’t applied in Ranked.

Leave Unranked and Hotjoin as they are, but when changes are made to pro league they should automatically be applied in ranked.