Guild Wars 2

Hello.

Diamond skin.

Criticize.

Thank you

One of the cheesiest traits in the game when it works in the Eles favor, one of the most useless when it doesn’t. Personally I dont like any sort of hard counters in a game (even worse if they are passive) so I think it should be changed.

Should instead just be a Protection version of Cleansing Waters

Ryld.1340:

Should instead just be a Protection version of Cleansing Waters

Resistance.

Your title is an oxymoron. There is no SKILL in Diamond Skin. A passive trait that gives 100% immunity to conditions that can’t be negated. It should give resistance boon.

This is by far the most skilless kittened trait in the game right now. It counters EVERY SINGLE condition build by simply being afk.

Photinous.4628:

This is by far the most skilless kittened trait in the game right now. It counters EVERY SINGLE condition build by simply being afk.

How much of an exaggeration can you make?

Did you know that Healing Signet counters EVERY build by simply being afk?

Ryld.1340:

Photinous.4628:

This is by far the most skilless kittened trait in the game right now. It counters EVERY SINGLE condition build by simply being afk.

How much of an exaggeration can you make?

Did you know that Healing Signet counters EVERY build by simply being afk?

Healing signet does not render you immune to physical damage.

Photinous.4628:

Ryld.1340:

Photinous.4628:

This is by far the most skilless kittened trait in the game right now. It counters EVERY SINGLE condition build by simply being afk.

How much of an exaggeration can you make?

Did you know that Healing Signet counters EVERY build by simply being afk?

Healing signet does not render you immune to physical damage.

And being afk will not make you immune to condition damage.

diamond skin is fine.

it only works when the ele ‘s health is 90% or above.
an ele’s default health is like how much? 11k?

deal 1.2k direct damage to the ele and watch the ele melt to conditions quickly.

working as intended.

well, to be fair, we could make diamond skin behave like resistance.

this would save us the trouble of applying conditions after 90%
we could load up conditions then drop the health to 90% then watch the ele melt away.

revised diamond skin
Diamond Skin Specialization Earth | Tier Grandmaster | Type Major
“Conditions currently on you are ineffective when your health is above the threshold”
Health Threshold: 90%

much better right? but then eles may cry. so we lower the health threshold a bit to compensate?

Diamond Skin Specialization Earth | Tier Grandmaster | Type Major
“Conditions currently on you are ineffective when your health is above the threshold”
Health Threshold: 75%

there you go.

Really? Diamond skin? Among all the balance and elite opness issues your problem is diamond skin? Just deal 1.3k damage and it will be gone. It is a wasted talent and as an ele player I find it extremely useless against very talented players or the insane amount of dmg / cc combination nowadays.

Though I find it useless as an ele, i think as someone mentionned above, make it like cleansing water, gain 2-3s resistance when applying protection to yourself or an ally is a good idea to consider.

Something has to keep the condi reapers from devouring pvp since everyone decided to trade their condition removal line to take an elite spec line.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

diamond skin is fine.

it only works when the ele ‘s health is 90% or above.
an ele’s default health is like how much? 11k?

deal 1.2k direct damage to the ele and watch the ele melt to conditions quickly.

working as intended.

People like this always come into these threads and they are always wrong. Most popular Ele specs run bruiser or support celestial, giving them 17-18k, and they spec for access to healing and sustain.

DPS with a Rabid or even Carrion amulet cannot out damage their sustain.

Don’t mindlessly spam condi burst against eles once you notice they traited for this, this really is a L2P issue imho.

roamzero.9486:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

diamond skin is fine.

it only works when the ele ‘s health is 90% or above.
an ele’s default health is like how much? 11k?

deal 1.2k direct damage to the ele and watch the ele melt to conditions quickly.

working as intended.

People like this always come into these threads and they are always wrong. Most popular Ele specs run bruiser or support celestial, giving them 17-18k, and they spec for access to healing and sustain.

DPS with a Rabid or even Carrion amulet cannot out damage their sustain.

even at 18k health, 10% is 1.8k

just get a team mate who does direct damage to chip 2k of health off the elementalist then proceed to melt down with conditions.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

well, to be fair, we could make diamond skin behave like resistance.

this would save us the trouble of applying conditions after 90%
we could load up conditions then drop the health to 90% then watch the ele melt away.

revised diamond skin
Diamond Skin Specialization Earth | Tier Grandmaster | Type Major
“Conditions currently on you are ineffective when your health is above the threshold”
Health Threshold: 90%

much better right? but then eles may cry. so we lower the health threshold a bit to compensate?

Diamond Skin Specialization Earth | Tier Grandmaster | Type Major
“Conditions currently on you are ineffective when your health is above the threshold”
Health Threshold: 75%

there you go.

Yo, I would take that in a heartbeat. The number of times people blow their condition wad on me and then walk away assuming I will drop is incredible. See that status bar light up with condis and not pay any attention to my HP sounds exactly like modern pvp.

I just love how this exact trait was deemed overpowered in engineers and they had theirs removed while theirs only activated while they had 25% hp or under and did not removed currently applied conditions

Rezzet.3614:

I just love how this exact trait was deemed overpowered in engineers and they had theirs removed while theirs only activated while they had 25% hp or under and did not removed currently applied conditions

Important Differences:
25% vs 10%
Medium Health Pool vs Low Health Pool
Medium Armor vs Light Armor

I’m not saying it was OP or anything, but those are some MAJOR factors involved there.

When has diamond skin not been a lame mechanic. Usually unviable, but makes me cri trying to 1v1 it on condi engi… It’s still doable but often not worth losing time over the standing around, autoattacking part..

All these condibuild QQers here…….

seriously as people said before, the ONLY thing you have to do is get the ele below 90% health and if you run the cheesiest of cheesy condi builds then it’s your own fault that you cant get the ele below the 90%…
Btw, since when do condi builds require skill?

MyPuppy.8970:

Though I find it useless as an ele, i think as someone mentionned above, make it like cleansing water, gain 2-3s resistance when applying protection to yourself or an ally is a good idea to consider.

I would prefer not. Currently Tempest applies so much Protection that adding Resistance on top would break it.

Skill-less counter to skill-less condi builds. Either nerf both or leave both.

Ryld.1340:

Rezzet.3614:

I just love how this exact trait was deemed overpowered in engineers and they had theirs removed while theirs only activated while they had 25% hp or under and did not removed currently applied conditions

Important Differences:
25% vs 10%
Medium Health Pool vs Low Health Pool
Medium Armor vs Light Armor

I’m not saying it was OP or anything, but those are some MAJOR factors involved there.

good analogy but the problem lies in the trigger times its not a matter of 25% vs 10% the diference is ele’s is always up with higher up time as long they simply heal often and engineer’s triggered when they were dieing 25% hp not just that but if the engineer uses as much as one heal they lost their trait (when they had it)
on a non vitality + engi 25% = a mere 4k hp if an engi already had conditions stacked on them they would die regardless ( i guess this is why the trait was removed and not cuz it was op on them)

Belial.9350:

Skill-less counter to skill-less condi builds. Either nerf both or leave both.

Condi builds are no more skill-less than power builds that hit for 14k dmg on crit (gravedigger) or traps that can cover 90% of a point in pvp and kill you if you don’t react right away (DH).

Seriously, what is with all this qq about the so called condi meta when only necro, engi, guard, and maybe ranger have useful condi builds? Engi and Guard don’t even run it most of the time.

Rev, Mesmer, Ele, War, Thief and their elites all run power or hybrid builds that favor power damage most of the time, with the exception of berserker, which is pretty much agreed to be under powered right now.

I’m not saying diamond skin needs nerfs, but hard counters like this are bad for the game. If there was a trait that blocked all direct damage above 90% health, people would freak out.

Flumek.9043:

Hello.

Diamond skin.

Criticize.

Thank you

a very dumb trait, but I feel for certain MU’s it’s necessary for the Ele to have a chance in the current meta… But it’s stupid that it shifts those MU’s from unwinnable to basically a freewin.

It just needs to be reworked completely and then Ele has to be balanced accordingly.

Quaman.9167:

Belial.9350:

Skill-less counter to skill-less condi builds. Either nerf both or leave both.

Condi builds are no more skill-less than power builds that hit for 14k dmg on crit (gravedigger) or traps that can cover 90% of a point in pvp and kill you if you don’t react right away (DH).

Seriously, what is with all this qq about the so called condi meta when only necro, engi, guard, and maybe ranger have useful condi builds? Engi and Guard don’t even run it most of the time.

Rev, Mesmer, Ele, War, Thief and their elites all run power or hybrid builds that favor power damage most of the time, with the exception of berserker, which is pretty much agreed to be under powered right now.

I’m not saying diamond skin needs nerfs, but hard counters like this are bad for the game. If there was a trait that blocked all direct damage above 90% health, people would freak out.

You need like 3 stats to make work power build and most power build require:

• you looking if enemy got stab, protection, aegis*
  -you knowing how many dodges he’s got left
  -you baiting all of the enemy stunbreakers
  -you taking in consideration enemy toughness levels

On the other side you have condi builds that require a single stat and:

-pew pew and forget, no matter if you miss, your auto-attack applies 5-6 condis

Condi builds take no skills..no matter what you say, the most OP build ruining meta were all condi based: dhuumfire necro, spirit ranger, fire d/d ele etc etc..all condi dmg at 80-%

Oh … ppl qq about Diamond Skin , my dream come true lol

Anyway, if people complain about Diamond Skin, tomorrow they will QQ about perma Resistance Malyx.

Morwath.9817:

Anyway, if people complain about Diamond Skin, tomorrow they will QQ about perma Resistance Malyx.

Not like the only relevant condi build in the meta, used by necro, kills it just as easily as Shiro anyway

I really hate this skill because you basically have to ask someone else in the team to do your job of killing the enemy. Which is kind of dumb when considering the most fun part of Gw2 PvP is the small fight.

And for people who say, just deal like 2k damage (since who on earth run that trait without HP), most of the condi builds do not have the skill to do that much damage and tempest (the only one who run that) heal a lot.

Overall I find getting hit by LB4 from 5 Rangers feel more meaningful than this poorly designed trait.

Ryld.1340:

Photinous.4628:

Ryld.1340:

Photinous.4628:

This is by far the most skilless kittened trait in the game right now. It counters EVERY SINGLE condition build by simply being afk.

How much of an exaggeration can you make?

Did you know that Healing Signet counters EVERY build by simply being afk?

Healing signet does not render you immune to physical damage.

And being afk will not make you immune to condition damage.

yes it does, if you have diamond skin

Not sure about the theory of using others players to help you kill ppl with Diamond Skin if you mainly run with Condition damage on ya build.

Could be a cunning plan by Devs to ensure co-operation in PVP but then where is ….

Rubber Skin

Non-Condition Damage cannot be applied to you when your health is above the threshold.

Health Threshold: 90%

^ Please let me know when you add this to game, idc what class or specialization line, I’ll be rolling one.

The disturbing thing about this tho is not just the skill itself but what was going through the dev’s minds? What we need, what the game promised initially was Build Diversity and with this skill (and others) we see less and less of it.

When developing and tuning Build Diversity should be one of the foremost thoughts in Dev’s minds, don’t put skills or mechanisms in the game that lessen it.

lighter.2708:

Ryld.1340:

Photinous.4628:

Ryld.1340:

Photinous.4628:

This is by far the most skilless kittened trait in the game right now. It counters EVERY SINGLE condition build by simply being afk.

How much of an exaggeration can you make?

Did you know that Healing Signet counters EVERY build by simply being afk?

Healing signet does not render you immune to physical damage.

And being afk will not make you immune to condition damage.

yes it does, if you have diamond skin

No, you will take autoattack damage down to below 90% health and then die to conditions. I’m just making fun of the original person who I quoted who took it to the extreme saying that “Diamond Skin makes you immune to conditions while the Ele does nothing.”

Morwath.9817:

Anyway, if people complain about Diamond Skin, tomorrow they will QQ about perma Resistance Malyx.

+1

Rev players be warned

Elementalist has poor condition removal if not invested in cantrips and the water traitline. Diamond skin (earth) is fine, it is mostly a l2p issue, 1.7k health is easy enough to strip if you do pretty much do anything besides apply pure conditions. It is less than an auto attack of damage for a power build, and in a team fight removed against any decent player, removed in a blink of an eye.

A good condi player can find the window of opportunity to load their conditions rather than just spamming all their cooldowns and proceed to condition autoattack and cry. It is kind of like full zerker classes complaining they can’t kill someone because they used all their burst when the enemy was immune/evading, or that the bruiser they are fighting has too much sustain. Most builds have strengths and weaknesses and in the current state tempest is far from overpowered even with diamond skin against a condi class. It is an even bigger sacrifice against power builds or a team fight environment, in which the game was balanced upon.

With the right builds, most classes can get an insane amount of counterplay to conditions to not even feel pressured at all against a pure condition build. It is why most conditions builds are not meta, because against a good player, there is too much cleanse/resistance/immune that someone can build of, that just doesn’t compete with a good power build that can also be highly mobile with decent sustain. Although, that itself is another issue altogether.

Sorry deception but you are wrong saying that its a l2p issue and that diamond skin is far from OP vs a condi class….everything being equal (player skill wise etc) they are immune, can’t be killed thus the ppl complaining. You can argue that its fine to HAVE to call for someone to help OR simply to not run a condition build but making you immune to conditions and unable to be killed by a pure condition build is OP. Argue as ya like whether it is acceptable or needs to be changed.

This straight up hardcounters a lot of condition builds. You can literally afk with SOR, and auto attack and never get below the health threshold against a variety of different condition builds.

The trait would be much more useful and fair if it gave 3-4 seconds of resistance on entering earth. It would also have more play for the ele to use intelligently.

Sinning.7483:

Sorry deception but you are wrong saying that its a l2p issue and that diamond skin is far from OP vs a condi class….everything being equal (player skill wise etc) they are immune, can’t be killed thus the ppl complaining. You can argue that its fine to HAVE to call for someone to help OR simply to not run a condition build but making you immune to conditions and unable to be killed by a pure condition build is OP. Argue as ya like whether it is acceptable or needs to be changed.

Sorry, If you can’t even deal 1.7k damage before you spam your condi, how do you think you’re on an equal skill with your opponents? Perhaps, you’re overestimating your skill?

Where are you getting 1.7k from? Is that from one of the few viable Ele Meta builds?
You realise that Condi builds usually are about wearing opponents down over time not a burst? That Diamond Skin is not an applied skill that has cooldown? That someone taking that Trait will play and build to keep health up and over that 90%?

To say just do 1.7K then its sorted shows that you not aware at all of how this skill works or plays.

Sunshine.5014:

Sinning.7483:

Sorry deception but you are wrong saying that its a l2p issue and that diamond skin is far from OP vs a condi class….everything being equal (player skill wise etc) they are immune, can’t be killed thus the ppl complaining. You can argue that its fine to HAVE to call for someone to help OR simply to not run a condition build but making you immune to conditions and unable to be killed by a pure condition build is OP. Argue as ya like whether it is acceptable or needs to be changed.

Sorry, If you can’t even deal 1.7k damage before you spam your condi, how do you think you’re on an equal skill with your opponents? Perhaps, you’re overestimating your skill?

Sinning is right though. A full condition build cannot drop an ele down to 90% health. It basically hardcounters any condi builds because ele has good healing ability to keep it’s health above 90%. A minor trait that renders all pure condi builds useless and requires help from teammate to help is OP.

People keep saying “it’s only 1.7k hp, l2p” but try doing this much damage as a carrion or rabid build through the toughness from celestial amulet, through permanent protection from tempest auras and earth overload, through constant sustain from an aura every few seconds, from constant regen uptime and then of course the really strong shout heal to keep them above 90%. This is almost impossible for any pure condi build out there.

My point tho as per my first post is that Diamond Skin is just an excellent example for raising concern as to where Devs are heading with this game.

Sunshine loves his Ele, from this thread –
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/I-love-Tempest-xD
——————
Yeah, the only viable Tempest build in PvP is a bunker build with no damage. You know what that means? It means after a while people will scream “Ele sustain is too high” just like D/D Ele and request it to be nerfed. We will then end up with no build.

I’d rather have the healing scale gets a nerf, the base sustain on weapon gets a buff, and Tempest damage gets a buff so we’re not pigeon holed into bunker.
—————————

That player feels this way is just sad imho, and shows something is wrong here with the system. Players shouldn’t feel that there is only One VIABLE build for a class in PVP?! He doesn’t want to be pigeon holed in to this build…what happens when a patch makes it not viabl? When Anet do their 3 monthly Meta change and he’s Pigeon holed
in to a new build which he hates the playstyle of?

Take an extreme view, which would you rather see -

System A – Players just click one button choosing premade Class/Setup and enter match..all Ele’s, all Thieves etc exactly same. Every three months Anet changes this setup.

System B – Players can make their own build and have dozens of viable build options to engage in PVP. Anet actively works to balance skills/class’s.

We seem to be heading in direction of System A, which would you rather see?

make it 3s resistance per aura applied and we have a deal, that way the trait will at least be worthy of a gm trait.

if you can’t deal <2k direct damage to them you should go home and rethink your life.
/jedi hand wave

Supreme.3164:

Quaman.9167:

Belial.9350:

Skill-less counter to skill-less condi builds. Either nerf both or leave both.

Condi builds are no more skill-less than power builds that hit for 14k dmg on crit (gravedigger) or traps that can cover 90% of a point in pvp and kill you if you don’t react right away (DH).

Seriously, what is with all this qq about the so called condi meta when only necro, engi, guard, and maybe ranger have useful condi builds? Engi and Guard don’t even run it most of the time.

Rev, Mesmer, Ele, War, Thief and their elites all run power or hybrid builds that favor power damage most of the time, with the exception of berserker, which is pretty much agreed to be under powered right now.

I’m not saying diamond skin needs nerfs, but hard counters like this are bad for the game. If there was a trait that blocked all direct damage above 90% health, people would freak out.

You need like 3 stats to make work power build and most power build require:

• you looking if enemy got stab, protection, aegis*
  -you knowing how many dodges he’s got left
  -you baiting all of the enemy stunbreakers
  -you taking in consideration enemy toughness levels

On the other side you have condi builds that require a single stat and:

-pew pew and forget, no matter if you miss, your auto-attack applies 5-6 condis

Condi builds take no skills..no matter what you say, the most OP build ruining meta were all condi based: dhuumfire necro, spirit ranger, fire d/d ele etc etc..all condi dmg at 80-%

You say that condi builds only use one stat, condition damage, but completely ignore expertise, and crit (to proc traits like plague sending or Rending strike). Power builds don’t even require all 3 stats to work, examples are soldiers engi and reaper which only have power and not Ferocity/precision. Many power builds spec in to some form of defense just like condi builds.

You also mention Dhuumfire necro, which is a poor example for your argument because that relied on having some crit chance to proc it lol.

Even D/D ele was broken well before the patch in June that changed burning, and relied mostly on direct damage from the might it was able to generate. Sure, when Anet changed burn it became a bigger part of the build, but it “ruined the meta” well before that. As for spirit ranger, I cant really say because I never played ranger. Its funny that you don’t mention classes like warrior or thief who were broken in the first year of the game and both relied entirely on power based damage.

All the counters you listed to power damage can also apply to skills that apply conditions, except you replace protection with resistance and toughness with vitality.
If you miss or get blocked when using a skill that applies conditions, it does no damage, like a power build, “pew pew and forget” doesn’t apply here. The only huge difference between counters to power builds and condi builds, is that power happens instantly and condi takes time to do damage and can be cleansed.

power builds are just as cheesy..no matter what you say

So Diamond skin prevents you from winning a 1v1 with a full condi build? I have yet to die in a 1v1 on my bunker ele against most classes, physical or condi, thats why its a bunker ele.

Let’s compare.
Power attacks can Crit (precision needed)
Condi builds may require traits that procs on crits (precision needed)

Power crits can be more effective with ferocity.
Condi dmg can be more effective with expertise.

Both can miss, be dodged, retaliated, aegised, etc.

Condition based builds may be better in longer fights, while power is here to smash burst in da faces. Strengh of a build is dependant on profession, and profession is dependant on Anet. If they want necro to be 10% better as condi it will be (10% is maybe too much it is an example). I want to say that balace between ex. condi necro and power necro is not that bad! Both build are viable in pvp which is HUGE success.

Imo these two build paths are balanced, while a profession could be not.

Back to the topic – Diamond skin isn’t op in any cases. However it is poorly designed and may decrease pleasure from playin condi builds.

roelvanesch.2817:

So Diamond skin prevents you from winning a 1v1 with a full condi build? I have yet to die in a 1v1 on my bunker ele against most classes, physical or condi, thats why its a bunker ele.

To answer your question roelvanesch, yes, that is exactly what has been said above and also in numerous other threads…Diamond Skin prevents you winning a 1v1 with full condi build.

As to your second sentence I am at a loss as to what it is you are saying here? That because you believe can’t be killed as a Bunker Ele by ANY class that Diamond Skin being OP should not be addressed? Not sure of that logic or the arrogance of such a statement.