Guild Wars 2

It’s not impenetrable. Elementalists have incredibly weak passive defenses, so it should be easy to do 1.5k damage to them.

I mean, if you want to talk about completely overpowered, let’s go back to those engineers.

Threshold = 75%. Condition durations reduced by 50%.
Or… What if it’s up only during Earth attunement just like Stone Heart?

Anyways, stop defending this trait, please. Passive hardcounters like this one should not exist.

Sorry your main isn’t broken OP anymore…..

Not really.

take flesh golem, his auto attacks will take the ele out of diamond skin in 2 hits, or use the charge skill to instantly get him down around 20% so you can spam your mindless fear chains.

or just go in deathshroud, even with condi specs it only takes afew hits for life blast to take that puny 2k hp away.

sorry but i dont feel much empathy when it comes to terrormancers and the one thing that they can’t fear to death.

Liewec.2896:

take flesh golem, his auto attacks will take the ele out of diamond skin in 2 hits, or use the charge skill to instantly get him down around 20% so you can spam your mindless fear chains.

or just go in deathshroud, even with condi specs it only takes afew hits for life blast to take that puny 2k hp away.

sorry but i dont feel much empathy when it comes to terrormancers and the one thing that they can’t fear to death.

I’m not sure if you are aware of the damage modifiers that an ele can achieve by going so deep into earth. We are talking about +37% more damage, damage that can 3 shot the flesh golem. As for lifeblasts the ele just stacks as much protection as possible through attuning on earth, armor of earth or use the auras give protection trait

Diamond Skin.
Counters all the face on keyboard rolling necros/engis/condiwars that the meta promotes.
I love it.

Lopez.7369:

To be honest, Stone Heart is pretty dumb as well. But it does at least have an active requirement. That would definitely be better.

I don’t see how it is dumb, it’s nothing compared to Diamond Skin. Stone Heart plays nicely, and from an opponent’s point of view, it probably plays even nicer than the elemental attunement trait that every single elementalist has been using since beta and no one is complaining about.

Brutal Arts.6307:

Diamond Skin.
Counters all the face on keyboard rolling necros/engis/condiwars that the meta promotes.
I love it.

you are rigth and i understand… but it shouldnt be like that only putting 30 traits on a line you are able to counter half of the builds in this game, if it lets say “removes 5,3,2 or all condies eveytime u attune earth” i would be fine with that.

Brutal Arts.6307:

Diamond Skin.
Counters all the face on keyboard rolling necros/engis/condiwars that the meta promotes.
I love it.

I love it too.
I would say that diamond skin is badly designed trait IF there were no even worse designed facerolling condi necros (and, by lesser extent engies). Redesign THEM, make THEM think about their conditions, when to apply them and where to use their skill, then we’ll talk.
So yes, DS is a hard counter, but it existence is fully justified. It isn’t really powerful trait for ele builds, but while it humiliates “press X to apply all the conditions” necros – I’m fine with it.

Lopez.7369:

It used to be that necromancers and engineers could do certain tricks to break through Diamond Skin, although it required some effort and a little luck. With the Signet of Restoration buff, it’s now impossible.

It’s not too bad because the build is rare, but, honestly, the trait shouldn’t exist in the first place.

My advice: Make the threshold 75 percent but make it only reduce condition durations by 50 percent.

The build isn’t rare. I play it every single game and it sucks. But I agree with your fix. It seems legit.

And necro has no condi burst anymore. All our condis are actually based on corrupting boons. I have tried vs warriors/others with no boons and necro dps is horrendous in these scenarios. Necro just owns bad players. Its not even close to OP currently and certainly isn’t nearly as faceroll as it was with dhuumfire.

Lopez.7369:

It used to be that necromancers and engineers could do certain tricks to break through Diamond Skin, although it required some effort and a little luck. With the Signet of Restoration buff, it’s now impossible.

It’s not too bad because the build is rare, but, honestly, the trait shouldn’t exist in the first place.

My advice: Make the threshold 75 percent but make it only reduce condition durations by 50 percent.

signet of resto before patch – 156 hp/cast
after – 226 hp/cast.

wow. game breaking!

OneManArmy.9732:

Lopez.7369:

It used to be that necromancers and engineers could do certain tricks to break through Diamond Skin, although it required some effort and a little luck. With the Signet of Restoration buff, it’s now impossible.

It’s not too bad because the build is rare, but, honestly, the trait shouldn’t exist in the first place.

My advice: Make the threshold 75 percent but make it only reduce condition durations by 50 percent.

signet of resto before patch – 156 hp/cast
after – 226 hp/cast.

wow. game breaking!

That’s not 18%.

Uhtameit.2413:

OneManArmy.9732:

Lopez.7369:

It used to be that necromancers and engineers could do certain tricks to break through Diamond Skin, although it required some effort and a little luck. With the Signet of Restoration buff, it’s now impossible.

It’s not too bad because the build is rare, but, honestly, the trait shouldn’t exist in the first place.

My advice: Make the threshold 75 percent but make it only reduce condition durations by 50 percent.

signet of resto before patch – 156 hp/cast
after – 226 hp/cast.

wow. game breaking!

That’s not 18%.

kitten this forums bugs. ok , once more

gw2skills still not updated
176hp/cast with 10 in water
212hp/cast now 10 in water

100-100*176/212=16.98%

yes, definitely not 18%

Lopez.7369:

No, it’s impenetrable as any condition build. Double regeneration and Signet of Restoration completely outheal direct damage from condition builds.

Then get one of the other 4 people in your team to hit them.

OneManArmy.9732:

Uhtameit.2413:

OneManArmy.9732:

Lopez.7369:

It used to be that necromancers and engineers could do certain tricks to break through Diamond Skin, although it required some effort and a little luck. With the Signet of Restoration buff, it’s now impossible.

It’s not too bad because the build is rare, but, honestly, the trait shouldn’t exist in the first place.

My advice: Make the threshold 75 percent but make it only reduce condition durations by 50 percent.

signet of resto before patch – 156 hp/cast
after – 226 hp/cast.

wow. game breaking!

That’s not 18%.

kitten this forums bugs. ok , once more

gw2skills still not updated
176hp/cast with 10 in water
212hp/cast now 10 in water

100-100*176/212=16.98%

yes, definitely not 18%

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-April-30-2013

Signet of Restoration skill: Reduced the passive healing by 18% in PvP.

I don’t know whether your calculations are wrong or whether theirs are. It’s just not what they stated.

Uhtameit.2413:

OneManArmy.9732:

Uhtameit.2413:

OneManArmy.9732:

Lopez.7369:

It used to be that necromancers and engineers could do certain tricks to break through Diamond Skin, although it required some effort and a little luck. With the Signet of Restoration buff, it’s now impossible.

It’s not too bad because the build is rare, but, honestly, the trait shouldn’t exist in the first place.

My advice: Make the threshold 75 percent but make it only reduce condition durations by 50 percent.

signet of resto before patch – 156 hp/cast
after – 226 hp/cast.

wow. game breaking!

That’s not 18%.

kitten this forums bugs. ok , once more

gw2skills still not updated
176hp/cast with 10 in water
212hp/cast now 10 in water

100-100*176/212=16.98%

yes, definitely not 18%

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-April-30-2013

Signet of Restoration skill: Reduced the passive healing by 18% in PvP.

I don’t know whether your calculations are wrong or whether theirs are. It’s just not what they stated.

well, now im totally confused. why do you link last year patch notes? we are talking about this patch and in this patch they make signet same as pve version.

so they buffed signet by 17%. that’s not game breaking, coz you need to cast something to be healed, this is not passive like warrior’s version.

Why am I linking last year patch notes, you ask? because they reverted that specific nerf, that’s why.

I’m not saying that’s game breaking at all, just saying that if they did nerf it by 18% and if they now state that they reverted it, it’s a tad stupid that it’s actually not 18%.

Other than that they did not revert the stealth nerfs they did on that heal (which was OP): EA made it proc like 3 times, changing attunements made it proc and scepter earth #2 made it proc 5 times.

And I’m on your side you know, that the warriors have a more reliable heal while having way more hp and armor than elementalists is preposterous.

/15char

No one will understand how bad it is until they give necros a trait that says under 20% hp you’re immune to power damage.

I say we give this to death tree and see how it pans out.

Lopez.7369:

Liewec.2896:

take flesh golem, his auto attacks will take the ele out of diamond skin in 2 hits, or use the charge skill to instantly get him down around 20% so you can spam your mindless fear chains.

or just go in deathshroud, even with condi specs it only takes afew hits for life blast to take that puny 2k hp away.

sorry but i dont feel much empathy when it comes to terrormancers and the one thing that they can’t fear to death.

I appreciate the advice, but I tried both of these ideas before making this thread. Life Blast is not enough, unfortunately. (It used to be, though.) And flesh golem just isn’t reliable enough, but it’s probably the best option at this point.

Here’s a thought…. Power…necro… say it with me….

Reducing conditions by a certain % while in earth is still passive and rather boring. I’d prefer something like reflecting conditions for 1-2s when switching to earth. Could potentially be strong if timed well but leaves the enemy options too like faking signet of spite and waiting for that short time. A lot more interesting imo.

How to beat diamond skin;

A) Roll ranger with condi BM Bunker
B) use this build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vMAQRAnf8YnEqQrg2yCWsAXLGIWFAU7BnMPmePm16BwFXNVF-TwAg2CrI+R9j7HzPyfs/MAZxxej5GA
In BM take Invigorating Bond. It is just too good to miss with the amount of healing power you got from settlers amulet.

C) Enter Game, search out ele and attack it
D) THIS IS CRITICAL;
To fully maximize pet DPS, use commands in this exact order (if you fail to do it like this, you will lose the 40% DPS buff from sic’em. Any command issued to the pet after sic’em will cancel sic’ems effect thus losing the DPS increase)
First use Alpine Wolf with its F2. As soon as ele is chilled, switch to snow leopard and follow the “chain” below.

Pet – Snow Leopard
Target: Ele
1 – Activate Rampage as One (incase ele is fresh air, so it cannot insta-kill you)
2 – Press F1 (Command pet: Attack Target)
3 – Activate Signet of the Wild (lasts 8 seconds)
4 – Press F2 (Command pet: Pet utility/special skill)
5 – Activate Sic’em (lasts 10 seconds)

End result – Pet will execute a powerful double strike that has a 1.65 direct DPS damage boost modifier. The pet will chill the enemy and hit it for upwards of 5-6k max, thus for the remaining 4 seconds of the buffs, the pet will continue to maul the enemy for up to 3k damage.

After pet has hit, unload all condies and switch back to alpine wolf to use its knockdown attack on the ele right after swap. Then just swap to sword + dagger and capitalize on the next 3 hits granting crits (should crit for around 700 damage/hit… not bad with almost zero power)

Sic’em also grants revealed to enemies, thus it is perfect for ruining the day of any thief or mesmer that tries to meddle.

This build does take some practice, and your survival is tied to well timed usage of heals and evades. Fear not, you have plenty of evades at hand.

Completely agree. I dont see how the devs had the nerve to give eles a method to counter condition spam so well. I think changing the trait to 25% reduced condi duration while above 95% hp would even the playing field again, and maybe drop eles base hp to 9k at the same time.

Lopez.7369:

I think the better way to make elementalists counter condition spam is a trait like Cleansing Water. That requires some active play because the cleanse is attached to regeneration. And it even involves some group play.

yeah except remember when cleansing water was nerfed into the ground

the only reason you see eles in pvp now is the undoing of that nerf

Lopez.7369:

Yes, that was my point.

well if they don’t nerf cleansing water again i say just remove diamond skin. Eles have enough tools against condis now.

Sizer.5632:

Completely agree. I dont see how the devs had the nerve to give eles a method to counter condition spam so well. I think changing the trait to 25% reduced condi duration while above 95% hp would even the playing field again, and maybe drop eles base hp to 9k at the same time.

Is… is this sarcasm? Please be sarcasm.

Lopez.7369:

The problem is that keeps the class so reliant on water attunement. I’d rather they create a more interesting, active version of Diamond Skin.

Whenever you grant protection to you or an ally, convert a condition into a boon?

Actually no, I don’t like that. Eles really only have a few select ways to grant protection, especially Aoe.

Converting conditions into boons actually sounds like a very flavorful idea for an earth magic trait.

Diamond Skin – 15 second cooldown
If you’re over 90% health, the next time you would get hit by a condition, you convert all incoming conditions into boons instead for 3 seconds.

jportell.2197:

yeah except remember when cleansing water was nerfed into the ground

the only reason you see eles in pvp now is the undoing of that nerf

You don’t need cleansing water to make a good ele build post-patch.

Many things added up to put eles at a better position (buffs, reverts, other prof nerfs, new gear mechanics), but possibly the most significant of all the changes, was the buff to the celestial amulet.

You’re right, OP, let’s just get rid of the whole kitten idea and give eles something useful instead that isn’t a passive hardcounter.

Immunities/hard counters are bad for the game. They lower play/counter play (I believe they call this skilled gameplay internally). This game needs more soft counters like AR is on eng now.

Just build A rotflstomping build B unless A is afk is bad.

Turns out… Sigil of Leeching does wonders

Okay yeah this thread is still hilarious.

I don’t like that Diamond Skin exists, but until the ridiculous damage/control combianation* that condition builds - particularly terrormancers - have is toned down, I will continue to defend its existence to be used against the players who spec entirely in that direction.
Especially against those bad players who can’t even work out how to break the skin, then come qq about it on the forums.

*y’know, the reason hambow War was so broken (and continues to be very strong)

It’s annoying, that’s for sure. Just another reason I think the celestial buff is what’s going to change Engi the most this patch.

Any necros been messing with celestial?

Aberrant.6749:

Immunities/hard counters are bad for the game.

then please let us remove revealed from the game as it hardcounters stealth, berserker stance, cleansing ire, shadows rejuvenation, diamond skin, stability and let us not forget “evasion” skills…. or wasnt that what you meant?

Dont know why Anet still havent changed diamond skin yet, its too situational and complete immunities dont help competitive skilled play.
Funny enough when me and other eles logged in after the patch, the standard trait setup had diamond skin, wonder what they’re trying to hint.
Ele definately needs more active condi removal or condition mitigation. Especially against chill.
The most logical way of hotfixing diamond skin would probably be similar to what they did with automated response. Another possibility is reducing significantly the condition damage recieved rather than the duration.

best way to counter ele weakness would be to change diamond skin into a passive converter or a active on-skill-use converter:.

Passive converter:
Proc rate: once every 20 seconds
Converts: Chill, Cripple, Fear and Immobilize into Protection (5s), Stability (5s) and Regeneration (5s)
Condition for converter to trigger; Chilled or Crippled or Feared or Immobilized

Active:
Signets converts 3 conditions into a random boon upon activation
Boon Pool:
Regeneration (8 seconds)
Stability (4 seconds)
Swiftness (8 seconds)
Protection (4 seconds)
Retaliation (6 seconds)
Might x3 (4 seconds)

This way, ele remains a boon machine. There is some RNG. and perhaps, jsut perhaps, we may see some signet builds become viable rather then just a curiosity

Condition spamming is, currently, at an unbearable level. Probably pretty close to skyhammer’s level of one-hit killing cheese.

Diamond Skin is the least of GW2’s pvp problems right now.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Condition spamming is, currently, at an unbearable level. Probably pretty close to skyhammer’s level of one-hit killing cheese.

Diamond Skin is the least of GW2’s pvp problems right now.

it may not be a massive issue, but it is directly part of the issue itself. If conditions weren’t so strong, there would be no need for it, atleast in its current form.

I think, to level out the playing field, conditions in PvP would have to have their duration/damage reduced by 20%…. currently PvP is like running exotic gear in WvW stat wise. while power is closer to rare gear (thats how i feel it affects my ranger and thief though)

Nerf Scissors, Rock is fine
With Love, Paper

Nerf Diamond Skin, every other classes is fine
With Love, condi bunker

Prysin.8542:

Aberrant.6749:

Immunities/hard counters are bad for the game.

then please let us remove revealed from the game as it hardcounters stealth, berserker stance, cleansing ire, shadows rejuvenation, diamond skin, stability and let us not forget “evasion” skills…. or wasnt that what you meant?

You can only apply revealed to yourself (save one ranger skill).

Cleansing ire isn’t a hard counter nor immunity. If you blind them or dodge the f1 skill it doesn’t remove conds. That’s good, there is play/counterplay to that.

Not sure what shadow’s reju hard counters… it’s just hp while in stealth. Stealth isn’t the best thing to be relying on in PvP since you can’t hold or cap a point.

Stability can be stripped/corrupted.

I’ll just end this early and say you don’t understand what I mean if you think these types of things are involved or should be included.

Yes I’m a condi engi, and yes I need a nerf. But the topic is diamond skin atm, and that kind of hard counter to conditions is just horrific design. 1v1 any condi vs diamond skin is impossible with all the regeneration and heals they have.

I don’t care if you nerf engineer. In fact I’m all for it because I hate being called OP every time I win. But having a trait that makes you a god against every single condition build in the game is a pvp breaking trait.

Diamond skin is useless vs any build that isn’t pure condi. If you find a diamond skin elementalist and you happen to be a pure condi, then fight him with a team member. Condi bursts will melt 99% of builds. When you run into a hard counter you have to adjust.

PvP is not just a 1v1.

just get a zerker attack that ele and he will drop dead in no time. honestly, condi spam nowadays is over the top.

Lopez.7369:

It is genuinely impossible for a condition build to break through Diamond Skin right now.

Then maybe you shouldn’t be a 100% condition build? Maybe you should tweak your build to compensate for the handful of times you come across a Diamond Skin elementalist? Or perhaps you should just deal with the fact that your broken build has a single trait on a single class to counter it, because everyone else actually has to learn how to play and not rely on spamming conditions to win a fight?

Shockwave.1230:

Diamond skin is useless vs any build that isn’t pure condi. If you find a diamond skin elementalist and you happen to be a pure condi, then fight him with a team member. Condi bursts will melt 99% of builds. When you run into a hard counter you have to adjust.

PvP is not just a 1v1.

This.

Sunshine.5014:

Nerf Scissors, Rock is fine
With Love, Paper

Nerf Diamond Skin, every other classes is fine
With Love, condi bunker

+1
so true
while braindead full condi bunker builds exists they need a hard counter to slow down their “skills”

This skill is just as braindead as the condibunkers it counters. Nerf both.

Speaking from the perspective of someone that plays a full condie built mesmer…this trait doesn’t really trouble me at all. Even in a full condie build I have plenty of tools to do a bit of damage to an elementalist and start the condie load.