PAX was a good start. Hopefully ArenaNet can have more official tournaments with nice rewards like in Guild Wars 1. To me it seems like some people quit or are taking a break because they lost the prelims which is understandable.
Not everyone’s going to win the grand prize. Congratulations to winner Car Crash and runner up Team Sync. Enjoy the money!
^yep agreed. ppl frustrated, pent up with rage. then something sparks them to burst out and quit. for some it was this pax tournament
although its just that the market for this style of pvp game is so limited atm. you have forge, smite, and …wow (if wow even counts)…it’s not like the shooter genre where you have 100 titles to choose
PAX was a good start. Hopefully ArenaNet can have more official tournaments with nice rewards like in Guild Wars 1. To me it seems like some people quit or are taking a break because they lost the prelims which is understandable.
Not everyone’s going to win the grand prize. Congratulations to winner Car Crash and runner up Team Sync. Enjoy the money!
The mind boggles. Apart from congratulating the two teams, the rest of the post seemed an utter nonsense.
Perhaps having a terrible meta for months along with a tournament casted by people who were pretty much making fun of their own game was all a big conspiracy Anet cooked up in order to get rid of us nagging, non-profit pvp folks.
I think that it did more harm. Why? Well they hammered home that they would rather focus on making it better to watch than making it better to play. Thus they are committing to a fancy roof while ignoring an unstable foundation.
If they focused more on making the play more fun then they would gather more players, which inturn would increase interest in the format. Population is the meat and potatoes of of what they want, but all they can see is dessert.
Seems to be some confusion. SYNC lost because their ranger’s were ill equipped to fight CC. CC had two power specs, while both Vyn and Twerp were running carrion, triple spirits, and healing spring. The hammer aoe stun, prevents either ranger from attacking meaning they do not get the protection proc from the spirit, the S/D thief evades preventing either ranger from connecting a hit causing the protection to not proc and rendering it useless. Not to mention, S/D steals boons. Low toughness, bad healing skill, and bad utility caused SYNC to have a handicap. This is because without the protection from the stuns/evades from CC the rangers were forced into using their heals prematurely, once this occurs this type of spirit ranger is very vulnerable to conditions which is how CC ended up winning the majority of fights even though they would lose a teammate first. A change to rabid amu with probably signet of renewal instead of stone spirit would’ve have gone a long way imo. Also, a different heal like troll would have been much more efficient against a double power, double condi team. I know both of SYNC’s rangers are skilled players but this felt like a simple oversight that costed a lot of fights. Also, putting Vyndetta into most team fights with a/d s/t instead of Twerp who had shortbow (shortbow can peel for teammates) also seemed like an oversight. However, with such a new team it is to be expected that things like this happen.
To answer the question. I felt PAX did more harm. Although PAX was a good thing the meta was/is awful. There has been no incentive to play in the last year and a lot of good players have left. Causing a lot more good players to leave because frankly there is 0 competition in the game right now. The best competition comes from 1 v 3 in WvW and solo queue which is often full of players without a great understanding of the game.
PvP is dying because conquest is not a mode people like to play.
GvG is growing because deathmatch is a mode people like, its rewards skilled play and real team work also gives more build options, tactics, and counter play.
Seems to be some confusion. SYNC lost because their ranger’s were ill equipped to fight CC. CC had two power specs, while both Vyn and Twerp were running carrion, triple spirits, and healing spring. The hammer aoe stun, prevents either ranger from attacking meaning they do not get the protection proc from the spirit, the S/D thief evades preventing either ranger from connecting a hit causing the protection to not proc and rendering it useless. Not to mention, S/D steals boons. Low toughness, bad healing skill, and bad utility caused SYNC to have a handicap. This is because without the protection from the stuns/evades from CC the rangers were forced into using their heals prematurely, once this occurs this type of spirit ranger is very vulnerable to conditions which is how CC ended up winning the majority of fights even though they would lose a teammate first. A change to rabid amu with probably signet of renewal instead of stone spirit would’ve have gone a long way imo. Also, a different heal like troll would have been much more efficient against a double power, double condi team. I know both of SYNC’s rangers are skilled players but this felt like a simple oversight that costed a lot of fights. Also, putting Vyndetta into most team fights with a/d s/t instead of Twerp who had shortbow (shortbow can peel for teammates) also seemed like an oversight. However, with such a new team it is to be expected that things like this happen.
You missed a few more things.
Both Ranger’s had no mobility.
Both ran Healing Spring and didn’t once use it as blast finisher for there team!!!!
None of them ran Warhorn for team support/heals/mobility. WTF!!!
Vyndetta’s build wasn’t to bad but it had no chance of beating that Warrior 1v1 on backpoint.
Condispam meta has nothing to do with anet. Hivemind too slow to figure out the counter is all. 5000 people just watched a warrior walk all over SYNC and the spvp forum is still whining about condis. Good for lols I guess.
The warrior walked all over the ranger… because the rangers stood in AOE fire field which took out all spirits (something people have been saying is a counter for a while). 3 matches does not all of a sudden shift meta because 1 team was able to coordinate very well against a HIGHLY overconfident team which played very poorly.
Good thing the other condi builds destroy warriors right?
Force a warrior to pop his Zerk Stance and live and condis will do just fine against them…
Except he regens 400-750 a second making him highly resilient against any kind of pressure build and has a range of other options to choose from, from better mobility allowing him to disengage without resetting while that regen ticks through blocks and invulns letting it tick, or spamming more condi removal with cleansing ire and longbow. Or he could just chain stuns on them since condi classes have kitten for stunbreaks and stability. Conversely, he can get over 60 seconds of stability/berserker stance at the start of a fight if he wants to go that way instead. If you’re struggling with condis as a warrior we’re not going to find any middle ground for a conversation I suspect.
These posts are hilarious, how do u chain stun with hammer and longbow. There are three very telegraphed stuns on hammer that can be dodged. Without nave main hand you can call this a sun lock build. 60 seconds of stability? Wtf? Warriors are a new supper class? They are very susceptible to burst when endure pain is down. Super was dead in most fights in the PAX finals.
Chances are we’ll get a major balance patch next Tuesday or in two weeks. It will be interesting to see if it can stop the bleeding.
Would you like the bad news or the predictably bad news?
A dev stated there is a patch post PAX, but that one won`t be the balance patch, it`ll be minor things.
Expect several weeks more of this crap.
As for the views, they had hyped up there being some big news for WvWs, only reason I watched it.
Turned out to be just another fluff/joke.
Perhaps folk were also watching to hear even a snippet of anything about the state of the games balance, but unsurprisingly, nothing got mentioned, except for the jokes of petting zoo.
SWTOR is more of a Esport then this game, till Anet realizes this and focus’s on crap people actually like “WvW” and GvG this game will continue to suck the teet of SPvP
Except he regens 400-750 a second making him highly resilient against any kind of pressure build and has a range of other options to choose from, from better mobility allowing him to disengage without resetting while that regen ticks through blocks and invulns letting it tick, or spamming more condi removal with cleansing ire and longbow. Or he could just chain stuns on them since condi classes have kitten for stunbreaks and stability. Conversely, he can get over 60 seconds of stability/berserker stance at the start of a fight if he wants to go that way instead. If you’re struggling with condis as a warrior we’re not going to find any middle ground for a conversation I suspect.
These posts are hilarious, how do u chain stun with hammer and longbow. There are three very telegraphed stuns on hammer that can be dodged. Without nave main hand you can call this a sun lock build. 60 seconds of stability? Wtf? Warriors are a new supper class? They are very susceptible to burst when endure pain is down. Super was dead in most fights in the PAX finals.
Highlighted the part you failed to comprehend. Also if you think warriors can’t get over a minute where they always have either stability or berserker stance, you fail again.
If you’re not playing to win, don’t complain when you lose.
I think that it did more harm. Why? Well they hammered home that they would rather focus on making it better to watch than making it better to play. Thus they are committing to a fancy roof while ignoring an unstable foundation.
If they focused more on making the play more fun then they would gather more players, which inturn would increase interest in the format. Population is the meat and potatoes of of what they want, but all they can see is dessert.
They didnt even make it more easy to watch. In fact it was the other way around. They made it easy to play and confusing to watch. Worst tournament match Ive seen so far from the previous GW2 ones.
Despite all the problems, it was at least nice to see GW2 in a real tournament setting.
You call that a real tournament setting? It was pathetic. Teams sitting next to each other like that. The crowd was so small. I have been in college lectures bigger than that. It was kitten just like the progress in PvP.
“i think it’s an underserved nerf. now we have to slot a stun breaker??”
“berserker stance clears all CC on you and you’re still immune to CC for 8 seconds”
-Excalibur.9748
At this point, it’s indisputable PAX was a disaster for structured PvP. What a shame.
Defektive quit prior to PAX, the week before. If HMan did quit he was a gentleman as well. He came and showed our Ele in our arena how to properly burst and spent a good bit of time helping him.
The biggest problem with PAX is that it stalled balance changes for two months or so. I don’t think anyone quit because of the tournament itself; the issue is what surrounded the tournament.
I think the only thing that can revitalize structured PvP at this point is a solid reward structure that pulls in players from world vs. world and PvE.
The biggest problem with PAX is that it stalled balance changes for two months or so. I don’t think anyone quit because of the tournament itself; the issue is what surrounded the tournament.
I think the only thing that can revitalize structured PvP at this point is a solid reward structure that pulls in players from world vs. world and PvE.
Yes, you’re right it isn’t just the PAX tournament itself, but everything else that happened around it. I just wanted to clarify that he didn’t leave post PAX.
ANet will never make an esport out of sPvP by getting WvW and PvE players, but if they can accept that then that’s ok.
My thought process isn’t that the WvW and PvE players would make up the entire population, but just making structured PvP feel active in some way could attract way more competitive players. One of the game’s biggest problems right now is that it feels pretty dead when someone solo or team queues and gets the same pool of people over and over.
Basically, we need the bronze league players to make reaching diamond league feel more meaningful and interesting.
Besides, the game is absolutely not going to become an e-sport at the current rate. Might as well try new approaches.
Despite all the problems, it was at least nice to see GW2 in a real tournament setting.
You call that a real tournament setting? It was pathetic. Teams sitting next to each other like that. The crowd was so small. I have been in college lectures bigger than that. It was kitten just like the progress in PvP.
Ya know, there are so many legitimate issues to criticize anet about, I don’t think there’s any point in harping on the more understandable things.
Despite all the problems, it was at least nice to see GW2 in a real tournament setting.
You call that a real tournament setting? It was pathetic. Teams sitting next to each other like that. The crowd was so small. I have been in college lectures bigger than that. It was kitten just like the progress in PvP.
Ya know, there are so many legitimate issues to criticize anet about, I don’t think there’s any point in harping on the more understandable things.
…was following up on your comment. You seem to be like a lot of other people. Settling. This lazy nonchalant attitude is what killed the PvP. You should work for them.
…was following up on your comment. You seem to be like a lot of other people. Settling. This lazy nonchalant attitude is what killed the PvP. You should work for them.
After how many negative posts about anet I’ve made on this forum, and how many downvotes I’ve gotten on reddit for daring to criticize them in that unbelievably pve fanboy heavy forum, it is rather amusing to me that you would say that.
There’s a difference between criticizing things that legitimately should be better, and just kittening for the sake of kittening.
…was following up on your comment. You seem to be like a lot of other people. Settling. This lazy nonchalant attitude is what killed the PvP. You should work for them.
After how many negative posts about anet I’ve made on this forum, and how many downvotes I’ve gotten on reddit for daring to criticize them in that unbelievably pve fanboy heavy forum, it is rather amusing to me that you would say that.
There’s a difference between criticizing things that legitimately should be better, and just kittening for the sake of kittening.
I think that is enough KITTENING for one night. Go to sleep child.
My thought process isn’t that the WvW and PvE players would make up the entire population, but just making structured PvP feel active in some way could attract way more competitive players. One of the game’s biggest problems right now is that it feels pretty dead when someone solo or team queues and gets the same pool of people over and over.
Basically, we need the bronze league players to make reaching diamond league feel more meaningful and interesting.
Besides, the game is absolutely not going to become an e-sport at the current rate. Might as well try new approaches.
absolutely true
the first problem that arena.net would fix is the pvp player population
e-sport can’t exist without it
5k for the first tournament is really really low.. u must think that lot of ppl watched it cuz its the first, and just wanna see how it develops , like me
right now if we would ve tournaments daily like both moba’s and sc2, the viewers would be less than 1k, there is not player base, there is not enough ppl interested in pvp and rly rly low ppl interested in pvp as a e-sport
Like many people have said, you can’t have esports unless you have enough players. To have enough players, the game must be fun. I choose to watch ha stream for a game I have because I find it fun, and want to learn from other players how to improve. That is how you build momentum.
That being said, PAX has done way more harm than good, because it has stagnated the meta in a place that is neither fun nor balanced, making people leave because they are tired of facing the same OP builds over and over. The basics (combat system, active play capability, maps, etc) are there, but the actual implementation of combat is so imbalanced that only certain play-styles/classes are viable – killing people’s fun. People can handle being at a disadvantage with a tinkered spec, but not being so ineffective that you become little more than an observer from downstate 90% of the time. In this meta, so many par to slightly-above-par specs get completely obliterated by the “meta” specs. Thus, you just see the same team comps (S/D thieves, Warriors, necros, and guards) over and over, such that watching streams even loses its appeal. I don’t want to watch players compete over who can spam harder/faster.
With that said, the issue with PAX is it likely took away more players than it added. I would honestly be surprised if they see a statistical bump even in the short term, and it’s most likely a net negative in the long term.
Pax is done now. Simple question?..are we seeing more people in soloQ and spvp?..if they don’t start arriving within 48 hours to a week, are people really hoping/thinking they’re just waiting a month before they enter the game? We will be able to tell if it was a success two weeks from now. It will be easy to see, the population would have grown noticeably.
SWTOR is more of a Esport then this game, till Anet realizes this and focus’s on crap people actually like “WvW” and GvG this game will continue to suck the teet of SPvP
lol.
Mario & Luigi Dream Team Bros. is a game that takes more reaction and skill than this one.
SWTOR is more of a Esport then this game, till Anet realizes this and focus’s on crap people actually like “WvW” and GvG this game will continue to suck the teet of SPvP
LOL gw2 isn’t a e-sport
but swtor e-sport??? loooooolololo, are u kidding? aren’t u?
Right now there isn’t a real mmo e-sport , just wow was close of it, but we all know the end
If people cared enough they would watch it, for example, i stayed up to 9am just to finish watching TI3.
^, at the same time LoL had 200k+ viewers so don’t point the hour. Also it was late (early ?) in Europe but prime time in the US so really nothing to do with it.
Comparing the Guild Wars 2 stream with the LoL streams isn’t reasonable. Completely different type of games and also LoL wasn’t that big when it started. I don’t think any game can top LoL and moba style games for viewership, it’s just what is popular right now. I also don’t think MMO pvp will ever be as big in general.
As for expecting people to stay up till 4 am, I don’t think that’s reasonable. I’m sure some people did but plenty of people wouldn’t be able to do so due to their living situation or simply because of their sleeping pattern (I woke up early that day so I was exhausted by the time the panel ended). I wouldn’t stay up till 4 am no matter what was being streamed.
Especially since you can watch it back the next day so other than chat (Which was a nightmare anyway) you don’t miss anything major. Sure I would have preferred to see it Live but you can’t expect people to stay up that late.
It has nothing to do with how much I care about it which I definitely do as I been watching all the major tournaments for months now and seen the viewership steadily grow (You may have seen me in chat if you have too). So yes, I most definitely care.
My point is still valid. Because of the time of the tournament they will have lost a lot of potential viewers because of it. I think the viewer count would have been higher if it hadn’t been so late but of course it would never have been 100k like LoL.
Except he regens 400-750 a second making him highly resilient against any kind of pressure build and has a range of other options to choose from, from better mobility allowing him to disengage without resetting while that regen ticks through blocks and invulns letting it tick, or spamming more condi removal with cleansing ire and longbow. Or he could just chain stuns on them since condi classes have kitten for stunbreaks and stability. Conversely, he can get over 60 seconds of stability/berserker stance at the start of a fight if he wants to go that way instead. If you’re struggling with condis as a warrior we’re not going to find any middle ground for a conversation I suspect.
These posts are hilarious, how do u chain stun with hammer and longbow. There are three very telegraphed stuns on hammer that can be dodged. Without nave main hand you can call this a sun lock build. 60 seconds of stability? Wtf? Warriors are a new supper class? They are very susceptible to burst when endure pain is down. Super was dead in most fights in the PAX finals.
Highlighted the part you failed to comprehend. Also if you think warriors can’t get over a minute where they always have either stability or berserker stance, you fail again.
Please break down for a bad how a warr can get over a min of stability. The only combo of such includes rampage, endure pain, dolyak signet and the trait that procs endure pain, w/ possibly the stance duration pushing it up by 25%. So that’s 20, 10, 8, 10. Susceptible to condis and 20 secs of that can’t use his weaps. But if u think rampage is worth taking over elite banner and sor, I can see why u’re whining.
5k viewers ? That’s not so bad, considering the tournament stream was at 4am in Europe. Why did you expect ?
Use your brain, said and re-said it : number of viewers has NOTHING TO DO with the hour. At the same time LoL had 200k+ and it was PRIME TIME in the US. You’re not the only one on earth.
I’m not really sure how anyone can think the viewership numbers are decent or even acceptable, but, again, they’re the least important point in the OP.
I have no idea why they thought PAX was so important. We have a broken meta, they gave away $10,000 that could be invested into more development time. Seriously, their pvp dev team is terribad along with their decisions.
[VZ] Sky Avalon – Guardian (Main)
Master of all Professions
sPvP Rank Dragon – 8 Champ Titles – Ruby Division
I still remember the SOTG and their answer on “Will there be any automated tournaments/offcial tournaments”. They said they were looking at the playerbase and their initiatives.
Can you be more lazy? This would have been fine if there was a solid base to build on, but not in this state.
We all know the result: A knee-jerk reaction to the dropping player-run tournaments/interest, which resulted in PAX.
The biggest problem with PAX is that it stalled balance changes for two months or so. I don’t think anyone quit because of the tournament itself; the issue is what surrounded the tournament.
I think the only thing that can revitalize structured PvP at this point is a solid reward structure that pulls in players from world vs. world and PvE.
Yes, you’re right it isn’t just the PAX tournament itself, but everything else that happened around it. I just wanted to clarify that he didn’t leave post PAX.
ANet will never make an esport out of sPvP by getting WvW and PvE players, but if they can accept that then that’s ok.
Why should ArenaNet make design decisions to get players to play a format they don’t like just because it’s rewarding? If there’s anything the last month showed us, PvE players will do just about anything for hours on end if the game throws money at them. That doesn’t mean it’s OK to make the driving force behind content some kind of rewards system. PvE wealth has nothing to o with PvP, you can’t use PvE gear or anything purchased with gold in PvP (unless you count gem purchases, but ArenaNet wants you to spend real money on those) so it doesn’t make sense to rewards PvE wealth for a format that doesn’t use it. In WvW you have to acquire all the gear you use, if you want apothecary stats you have to pay out the kitten for it, if you want to try a new build you have to pay every time you retrait, if you die you have to pay repairs. WvW uses all the same systems as PvE, it makes sense that there are monetary rewards for it (nothing compared to grinding some of this month’s insane farms), none of that is true for PvP.
If sPvP is getting PvE rewards then they need to start requiring transmutation stones to change skins (a luxury currently enjoyed by WvW and PvE players), paying for retraits as well as repairs. Why are these things terrible suggestions? Because sPvP is on life support and they hurt it even more. The reality is, the reward are not the problem. There are countless competitive games out there that don’t have rewards or progression yet they remain incredibly popular. Currently sPvP enjoys a lot more rewards and progression than many far more popular competitive games. Cosmetic skins and different rank based finishers are more rewards than a lot of competitive games have. Why then is sPvP unpopular despite not needing rewards? Because people don’t care about playing it. They don’t want to play it. If they did, they would regardless of what items are or are not present. It’s the wrong decision to bait PvE players in sPvP simply because it’s more rewarding. If players wanted to sPvP, they would do so regardless of the rewards. Artificially inflating your games numbers by bribing player to play content they aren’t interested in is the wrong move (both in sPvP and PvE).
SWTOR is more of a Esport then this game, till Anet realizes this and focus’s on crap people actually like “WvW” and GvG this game will continue to suck the teet of SPvP
That’s… actually true. SWTOR PvP was fun. Also the classes were more balanced.
SWTOR is more of a Esport then this game, till Anet realizes this and focus’s on crap people actually like “WvW” and GvG this game will continue to suck the teet of SPvP
LOL gw2 isn’t a e-sport
but swtor e-sport??? loooooolololo, are u kidding? aren’t u?
Right now there isn’t a real mmo e-sport , just wow was close of it, but we all know the end
You’re talking about a game that not only had a far better Map mode then this game (huttball) but one that will have 4vs4 Deathmatch Arena best of 3 next patch. In both a Solo and Group Queue with a Ranking system.
and the solo Queue will match Roles of classes, So one team won’t have 2 healers unless the other team does.
So yea..SWTOR is going to be more of an Esport then this game.
Everyone go SWTOR now, next esport that way ->
Well, it most likely won’t become an esport because of obvious reasons. Gear grind and P2P (it’s really not F2P, more like a big free trial) are really holding the game back and with EA in charge they probably won’t let go of that. But there really are some things that Anet can learn from SWTOR.
SWTOR is more of a Esport then this game, till Anet realizes this and focus’s on crap people actually like “WvW” and GvG this game will continue to suck the teet of SPvP
LOL gw2 isn’t a e-sport
but swtor e-sport??? loooooolololo, are u kidding? aren’t u?
Right now there isn’t a real mmo e-sport , just wow was close of it, but we all know the end
You’re talking about a game that not only had a far better Map mode then this game (huttball) but one that will have 4vs4 Deathmatch Arena best of 3 next patch. In both a Solo and Group Queue with a Ranking system.
and the solo Queue will match Roles of classes, So one team won’t have 2 healers unless the other team does.
So yea..SWTOR is going to be more of an Esport then this game.
Are F2Per’s still restricted on the number of matches they can play per week? SWTOR warzones were fun but lack of cross server queues really sucked once the population started to shrink.
Oddly, been tempted a fair few times over last few fail “balolance” patches to give SWeaToR a shot.
Is it any good? The pvp?
I don`t care if it is esports banana worthy, I just want a good pvp experience & gw2 has constantly failed on every way possible.
Side note, I actually hate star wars & all things star warsish, but if pvp is good….
It’s fun. You have to pay to get to max level warzones(as far as I know) and to wear the best gear and you’ve got a limited amount of warzones/week but it was pretty fun last time I tried it.
SWTOR has potential in its PvP but unlike GW2 the devs (Bioware) probably aren’t even thinking of using it. Maybe they’re being held back by EA.
