Guild Wars 2

Agemnon.4608:

Wolfey.3407:

This isn’t the first time they have interviewed or invited someone who gave the game a black eye publicly…..

Any other game, would have revoked their rights to shout cast.

On the bright side, you can say that it’s awesome that ANET let’s them invite people to bash their product openly. You can say it’s awesome that shout casters are allowed to encourage negative behavior.

Moving on to Argi, if he is that upset over the way Guild Wars 2 is heading PvP wise, there are more beneficial ways of making your voice heard then being a drunken slob on stream.

Personally, I say suspend Argi from tournament play for next season and move on. There’s no need for drunks to be on stream… there’s no need to advertise non-partner merchandise on stream, there’s no need to bash a game on stream.

Let’s start from the top:

1.The game was made in Direct X9 despite it being very old even by the standards of when the game was made.

2.Serious balance issues taking too long to resolve.

3.Lack of a PvP/PvE split.

4.Homogenization of roles and obsolescence of classes.

5.Too many safety nets for classes

6.Too many charged interrupts and too long precasts so by the time air focus 5 procs the opponent will heal up despite you having the twitch reactions and instinct to stop him. On thief distracting daggers has too long of a precasts but is otherwise a great skill and an example of a potential step in the correct direction, but within the context of too many blocks and passives it falls flat.

7.Other skills aren’t telegraphed well enough.

8.While AoE and CC have their place they need to be cut down across the board. More stability access is just a bandaid on a broken bone.

I don’t see how 1-8 have to do with what you quoted, seems like you saw “Forum Specialist” and decided to create an laundry list of complaints. Most of which have been reported on for weeks now.

Teutos.8620:

Wolfey.3407:

Moving on to Argi, if he is that upset over the way Guild Wars 2 is heading PvP wise, there are more beneficial ways of making your voice heard then being a drunken slob on stream.

Then please enlighten us all which more beneficial way is still left untouched.

The whole tournament was just between the top 3 teams and who will gain a spot at the wts. If there occurs a problem in one of the matches between those three teams, then you have to do a replay. There is – from a completely objective pov – no other option to handle this properly.

The problem was voiced in every possible way AND still ArenaNet did not react.

Personally, I say suspend Argi from tournament play for next season and move on. There’s no need for drunks to be on stream… there’s no need to advertise non-partner merchandise on stream, there’s no need to bash a game on stream.

I suggest you do your job properly too and tell ArenaNet that the pvp forum community calls ArenaNet out for doing a bad job at handling those ddos problems AND not intervene with Argis freedom of speech.

He, in fact, did not ‘bash’ the game. He did not call it any names what so over, he just said the plain and obvious truth. Just because you personally would like that the truth is different, you are definitely not allowed to behave like a dictator -.- come on, think it truth what you are demanding.

Aren’t you a lovely kid.
I guess you have seen all the weekly reports i’ve sent out?
I can send emails every week, I can’t force them to do anything. Then again you probably never bothered to read what a Forum Specialist is. You can use the search feature of these forums or use google and look it up. I’ve gone over this numerous time and I’m not going to waste any more time talking about it.

As pointed out before,
MJ doesn’t Bash the NBA
Steven Stamkos Doesn’t bash the NHL
Evan Longoria doesn’t bash the NBA

Lordrosicky.5813:

I find it hilarious that you people still insist pro league league pvpers are so great mechanical players. It simply isnt true. Gw2 has zero talented gamers.

And you know how I know this? I never tried in this game, ever.

Lol, I never made a comparison from MMO mechanical skill requirements vs. FPS / RTS

That’s cool though, all the pros have no talent and you just don’t try, haha.

Substance E.4852:

You do realize most pro athletes would act the same way if they weren’t under contract to maintain a sense of decorum right?

Don’t get upset just because you suddenly have to face the reality that “pro gamers” act just like regular gamers with a massive ego inflation.

Well you have a point there. I don’t know if this is correct but it seems to me like GW2 teams aren’t really sponsored by a larger gaming group like the teams in other popular games are. These groups tend to have codes of conduct that their players have to adhere to and therefore they act far more professional as competitors in those games. Especially teams sponsored by major hardware developers are very strict when it comes to conduct, they are representing the company afterall.

So it becomes a catch-22 really, people wouldn’t behave like this if they were sponsored, yet they can’t get sponsored unless there’s more interest in the game as an esport and with people behaving like this more interest in the game as an esport is unlikely.

Ravenmoon.5318:

That thing that many people seem to forget these days, and older people like to blame the millenials for the lack of it – professionalism

You didn’t hear Michael Jordan trashtalking basketball on ESPN now did you? If you are old enough to know about the legend…

It wasn’t trashtalking. Where did he insult ArenaNet? He just said they made a mistake and therefore he doesn’t care about the upcoming matches.
This is absolutely something you are seeing in the ‘normal’ sports. If the stadium has problems and they are not fixed until the play-day, everybody is talking about it.
If a team is losing their top leaderboard position because of a bad decision from a judge, they are taling about it.

Wolfey.3407:

Aren’t you a lovely kid.

It is always great to start with an insult. Really shows how much you respect a good discussion!

I can send emails every week, I can’t force them to do anything.

And did you sent a email including the ddos problem? Or did you only include the normal league / balance qq?
If you did, then please tell me if there are still more ‘professional’ ways to talk about the incident?

Lordrosicky.5813:

I find it hilarious that you people still insist pro league league pvpers are so great mechanical players. It simply isnt true. Gw2 has zero talented gamers. Anyone with a crazy click per minute or micro skill or great timing or reflexes would not play gw2 because its a joke.

And you know how i know this? I never tried in this game, ever. Often played with my cousin just having a laugh and kittening around both in game and on the forums. And i never played against anyone i thought was doing something amazing. And i played vs everyone highly rated . If i go to play the multitude of fps games i play there are people there who are so kittening skilled it blows my mind.

Henry, you read what Chaith and I are talking about and that’s what you decide to contribute? Why so antagonistic, man? And who are “you people” exactly? I’m just here to buy gem store outfits, leave me out of it. Or better yet, just look at Leman being all constructive and insightful, sit down and take notes.

The above is kind of a counterintuitive segue, but going back to Leman’s post about communities, I would actually say the GW2 community is one of the better PvP ones I’ve experienced. It’s certainly less autistic than moba or shooter communities, which are infested by the most abject inhuman filth that ever clicked its scabby mandibles and slithered the earth. The least cancerous moba is Heroes of the Storm, but even that community is a steaming pile of excrement compared to GW2. The thing is, this PvP subforum is a really poor representation of the different communities we have. This is just a bunch of clueless nabs whining because they haven’t successfully located the dodge button yet, and a sad collection of jaded veterans pining over a deluded fictional past where the game used to be great in 2012. Allegedly. But in-game, you can find people that are not completely devoid of sanity.

When a person is part of any community for an extended period of time, the confirmation bias kicks in and the grass starts looking awfully green on the other side. The reality is that you’re going to carry your baggage over to the new gig, so if you were a salty dude before, chances are the change in scenery isn’t going to do much. The remedy is to develop enough self-awareness to do something about the underlying issues. Accept, embrace, evolve. Move on if need be. Come to think of it, this is just me saying that Henry should stop acting all tsundere and marry Helseth. KappaPride.

Teutos.8620:

Ravenmoon.5318:

That thing that many people seem to forget these days, and older people like to blame the millenials for the lack of it – professionalism

You didn’t hear Michael Jordan trashtalking basketball on ESPN now did you? If you are old enough to know about the legend…

It wasn’t trashtalking. Where did he insult ArenaNet? He just said they made a mistake and therefore he doesn’t care about the upcoming matches.
This is absolutely something you are seeing in the ‘normal’ sports. If the stadium has problems and they are not fixed until the play-day, everybody is talking about it.
If a team is losing their top leaderboard position because of a bad decision from a judge, they are taling about it.

Wolfey.3407:

Aren’t you a lovely kid.

It is always great to start with an insult. Really shows how much you respect a good discussion!

I can send emails every week, I can’t force them to do anything.

And did you sent a email including the ddos problem? Or did you only include the normal league / balance qq?
If you did, then please tell me if there are still more ‘professional’ ways to talk about the incident?

He’s a forum specialist, last I checked Pro league is an ESL run event and a DDoS attack is an ISP related problem so why would he contact ANet about either of them?

Are you a professional at something in life? How do you think people would react if you were drunk when being paid to work? I can tell you right now that if any person in my line of work was drunk at work it would be a suspension at the very least, most likely dismissal and removal from the professional body. That means your career and possibly 5 years of your life are flushed down the toilet for something petty.

Watch any big esports and you will see that bot casters and players and loose and are having fun. Just yesterday in ESL CS:GO casters were smack talking each other and even physicly poking each other, cause its a kittening video game, its all entertainment business. Only people who need to be professional are those who work behind camera making the game and the tournament.
Of course when those people are unprofessional then you start whining that players need to be more serious cause otherwise gw2 esports look like complete joke, but it already is so what does it even matter.

Leeto.1570:

Watch any big esports and you will see that bot casters and players and loose and are having fun. Just yesterday in ESL CS:GO casters were smack talking each other and even physicly poking each other, cause its a kittening video game, its all entertainment business. Only people who need to be professional are those who work behind camera making the game and the tournament.
Of course when those people are unprofessional then you start whining that players need to be more serious cause otherwise gw2 esports look like complete joke, but it already is so what does it even matter.

Let me make some pretty clear, seems you are confused.

Gw2 Pro League should be seen as Valve’s “The International”, laugh all you want or don’t, i don’t really care. As such a certain degree of profesionalism from both casters and players is required. This is not your average Go4Gw2 or AspectGaming 2v2s or something like it. This is the tournament for the best of the best in Gw2 for quite an interesting prize money. Money being the keyword here. For such a substantial sum you must be an idiot to look at it as a joke. Or a loser.

apharma.3741:

He’s a forum specialist, last I checked Pro league is an ESL run event and a DDoS attack is an ISP related problem so why would he contact ANet about either of them?

Yes, the ProLeague is run by ESL BUT that is no excuse that ArenaNet did not intervene and request a rematch.
He is the one saying that there are still enough, more ‘professional’ options left and therefore – if directly asked – nobody should mention the incident. It is his job to inform them about the hot-topics in the forum, that ArenaNet can react accordingly. The DDos-incident is one of those hot-topics.
As long as there would be any other options left, you could answer Jebros question in a different way like ‘they are actively working on a solution’. But there isn’t any option left – so why should Argi not answer truthfully to the questions? He even stayed completely objective and did not insult ArenaNet in any way. I am personally even going further than Argi when saying that ArenaNet handled the situation poorly.

Are you a professional at something in life? How do you think people would react if you were drunk when being paid to work?

As long as you are doing what you are paid to do, nobody would care.

apharma.3741:

Teutos.8620:

Ravenmoon.5318:

That thing that many people seem to forget these days, and older people like to blame the millenials for the lack of it – professionalism

You didn’t hear Michael Jordan trashtalking basketball on ESPN now did you? If you are old enough to know about the legend…

It wasn’t trashtalking. Where did he insult ArenaNet? He just said they made a mistake and therefore he doesn’t care about the upcoming matches.
This is absolutely something you are seeing in the ‘normal’ sports. If the stadium has problems and they are not fixed until the play-day, everybody is talking about it.
If a team is losing their top leaderboard position because of a bad decision from a judge, they are taling about it.

Wolfey.3407:

Aren’t you a lovely kid.

It is always great to start with an insult. Really shows how much you respect a good discussion!

I can send emails every week, I can’t force them to do anything.

And did you sent a email including the ddos problem? Or did you only include the normal league / balance qq?
If you did, then please tell me if there are still more ‘professional’ ways to talk about the incident?

How do you think people would react if you were drunk when being paid to work? I .

I dont get it, they normally pay me more when im drunk.

Teutos.8620:

apharma.3741:

He’s a forum specialist, last I checked Pro league is an ESL run event and a DDoS attack is an ISP related problem so why would he contact ANet about either of them?

Yes, the ProLeague is run by ESL BUT that is no excuse that ArenaNet did not intervene and request a rematch.
He is the one saying that there are still enough, more ‘professional’ options left and therefore – if directly asked – nobody should mention the incident. It is his job to inform them about the hot-topics in the forum, that ArenaNet can react accordingly. The DDos-incident is one of those hot-topics.
As long as there would be any other options left, you could answer Jebros question in a different way like ‘they are actively working on a solution’. But there isn’t any option left – so why should Argi not answer truthfully to the questions? He even stayed completely objective and did not insult ArenaNet in any way. I am personally even going further than Argi when saying that ArenaNet handled the situation poorly.

Are you a professional at something in life? How do you think people would react if you were drunk when being paid to work?

As long as you are doing what you are paid to do, nobody would care.

Firstly, if it’s not run by ANet then they have no authority to do anything. ESLs stance on the DDoS which happened 2 mins into the match is in line with all previous ESLs and other tournaments and the rules do clearly mention that the match goes on regardless. It is nothing to do with ANet at all and quite frankly why should they care to force a rematch? It’s not on them, not their fault and they don’t make the rules. They just put up the money for ESL to run the event.

Secondly, no, if you turn up to a professional job while under the influence of alcohol, drugs or anything else that may impede your ability then you would be investigated. In the case of being drunk which serves no other purpose than to inhibit your performance you would most likely have your career ended.

Edit: Thread ending because of Leeto and Ravenmoon in 3, 2….

I’m dropping my diplomatic attitude for a while. Let me tell you that from a perspective of someone who interacts with real-life professionals, nothing, nothing in GW2 is professional. ESL are like kids in a playground – no direction, horrible organisation, abhorrent conduct, thoughtlessly designed ProLeague rules, no balls for taking quick and real action, no proper communication, and absolutely disgusting music on breaks during ProLeague.
Anet? Same – no direction for the game, no balance, no communication, no substantial action taken to fix the state of affairs.
Players? Money-hungry kids using dirty tricks to have their shot at earning their first money in life. Hiding behind stupid rules and terrible design.

Since most people seem not to realise that – people in real life get fired for such behaviour, because the moment things go wrong and customers start complaining, the real professionals at the top start cleaning the mess up. That’s what GW2 is – a total mess, and there are no professionals to clean it up.
I never thought I’d say that but the only ones who deserve recognition are the duo of EU shoutcasters (I don’t watch NA, so no opinion there) who work in this rough environment and somehow manage to keep their kitten together.

I took a 5-month-something break from active playing and I wanted to come back for good for S3. I log in, no one’s online, see people logging in every few days just to chat and bash the game. That’s a major waste of time. As Henry put it – shambles.

Most of the intelligent human beings already quit because there’s just so much rubbish you can take before you notice that it’s going nowhere and the remains of faith for Anet that still linger are not enough to counterbalance the top releases at the end of May. We can always come back since the game will surely live on and there’s no barriers, but one has got to be delusional to think that new games designed bottom-up for PvP releasing in the coming years won’t challenge GW2 to the point of being obsolete. No fun left.

Ohh, and I saw a guy with Chaos Gloves and a sloth on his back spamming quaggans wearing aviator caps and flying attached to balloons. What is this kitten art direction? Your game used to look like a painting, and then you decided to add wings.

Ohh-encore, and writing here is also a waste of time because let’s face it, no one with real power reads it, making it just an echo chamber, and a fight club.

leman.7682:

Some drama is fun but GW2 PvP is at a point where the most dedicated people are literally moving on.

I took a 5-month-something break from active playing and I wanted to come back for good for S3. I log in, no one’s online, see people logging in every few days just to chat and bash the game. That’s a major waste of time. As Henry put it – shambles.

Most of the intelligent human beings already quit because there’s just that much rubbish you can take before you notice that it’s going nowhere and the remains of faith that remain for Anet are not enough to counterbalance top releases at the end of May.

Ohh and writing here is also a waste of time because let’s face it, no one reads it and it’s just an echo chamber and a fight club.

Just passing the time to May 24th <3

apharma.3741:

They just put up the money for ESL to run the event.

So you are saying, ELS would not listen if ArenaNet asked them polite to make a rematch? There are enough precedents where a stakeholder intervened…

The already ‘broke’ the rules at the start of the season when they moved two of the matches to another day. If I remember correctly, there was already a rule about how many players are allowed to switch between teams, which also got ignored. Everything is possible if it is in the best interest of the game itself.

On EU, during the whole season, there were only three interesting matchups.

• TCG vs 55
• TCG vs Vermillion
• 55 vs Vermillion.

Those are the matches deciding the outcome of the season and they should not be decided by a technicality. (Sidenote: If it were up to me, I would let those three teams fight every two weeks against each other. And every other week the weakest of those three teams against the number four and five team to keep the other teams a chance to claim a spot in the top three.)

Secondly, no, if you turn up to a professional job while under the influence of alcohol, drugs or anything else that may impede your ability then you would be investigated. In the case of being drunk which serves no other purpose than to inhibit your performance you would most likely have your career ended.

You are implying that it ‘inhibit’ your performance. Ofc if anything inhibits your performance, your career would end, regardless of the cause.
The shoutcasters didn’t even notice it prior the interview, so no, it did not inhibit Argis performance. And that’s true for every job, if you are functioning alcoholic and still performing, nobody cares.

leman.7682:

Most of the intelligent human beings already quit because there’s just so much rubbish you can take before you notice that it’s going nowhere and the remains of faith for Anet that still linger are not enough to counterbalance the top releases at the end of May. We can always come back since the game will surely live on and there’s no barriers, but one has got to be delusional to think that new games designed bottom-up for PvP releasing in the coming years won’t challenge GW2 to the point of being obsolete. No fun left.

We’ve seen legions of skilled players come and go over these four years. The churn has been unbelievable. GW2 is rubbish at retaining skilled PvPers, and the ones that do remain grudgingly accept that GW2 is never going to fulfil the potential of its combat system and be the skill-based game they would like it to be. They come to terms with Anet’s decision to aim at the middle of the normal distribution curve where passive procs and spammy AoE rule the day. Let’s just be grateful Anet has not made Ranger spirits a thing again.

Come next week, I’ll cue up Netflix and play ranked on the side in the other monitor. And I’ll get legend. I can’t quite decide whether it’s extremely sad or extremely liberating. Competitive or skillful it’s not, that’s for sure.

apharma.3741:

Thread ending because of Leeto and Ravenmoon in 3, 2….

I sincerely hope the mods have the sack to leave the thread untouched. Some of the best posts this forum has seen in ages from Leman, Chaith et al.

Lol at leeto and Reventon back and forth:

Anywyas to touch on a few points, pro league players are GOOD, like very good… there is a reason why Gems n Tonic got 500 – 0.

But nice conversation, and I agree with the sentiment that Argi was unprofessional.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Chaith.8256:

Aereniel.7356:

Stand The Wall.6987:

They should seriously abandon the whole thing and focus on gvg/ wvw.

I doubt the Pro League will continue past the current season, unless Anet secures additional investor funding to keep it going. I don’t think there is a business case to justify it, other than as a PR spend with a negative ROI. It’s hard to see how the current season could have met any of the performance metrics Anet has set for it.

To come back to what Leman and Leet0 have been saying in this thread, the Pro League and the core PvP experience are so opposed in ideology that the pairing of the two feels disjointed and even illogical. The design aims are completely different. On one hand we have the core PvP, which is a non-skill intensive and casual experience where all things are attainable for all people, and game design leans towards passive traits and spammable AoE skills. The best builds play themselves and participation is rewarded. A socialist utopia, as Leet0 put it. On the other end of the spectrum we have the Pro League, which should be a very skill-intensive and exclusive affair where only the very best can compete.

It’s not hard to see the issues when the two are combined. The Pro League receives no support from the core game, because the core game’s design is geared towards a totally different audience. Anet is trying to marry a participation-based ladder to a skill-based tournament, which is not unlike putting trousers on a fish. Funny but completely pointless.

To recap what I wrote in a previous post – the Pro League won’t be competitive unless the core game also supports competitive play. Until that happens, the Tokers, Phantarams and ROMs of the scene will continue to rake in easy dough, because there is nobody to challenge them. If Anet wants a competitive Pro League, the core game’s infrastructure has to support fostering new talent that comes in and makes the old guard sweat for their money. At the moment, those guys are not sweating one bit.

Pro League won’t be competitive unless ArenaNet serves us more competitively minded core-pvp?

PL’s competitiveness is completely out of ArenaNet hands, ball is in the ESL court.

I would put that down as a nice to have, not something that’s even remotely close to affecting how competitive the PL is. It’s not quite the problem you’d think.

Creating pro league teams from core PvP isn’t the goal. You’re seeing a marriage where the isn’t one between ArenaNet core PvP and ESL PL. Even if new teams formed, they would very unlikely be top 4, who are also getting better together at the same rate.

There are plenty of players that have, or could have the mechanical/rotational skill at a pro league level. They honed their abilities in the fiery pits of core-pvp just fine, but they just don’t have the desire/drive/skills to succeed at a much harder goal: creating and maintaining a social structure like a team.

Hypothetically, to pose a solution for the problem you are suggesting, ArenaNet could provide infrastructure for players to naturally form into teams, getting players used to socially seeking out players and playing the game as five players.

So again, hypothetically, abolishing dynamic queue, bringing back solo and team queue (slightly higher league rewards for team), would work best.

Right now, core PvP is highly antisocial, all about single player content, or playing co-op with your best friend.

The average player is getting zero experience with 5 man PvP content on VOIP, which is purely what pro play is.

PL success is so dependent on super good voice communication, being able to maintain high energy, and theory crafting as a team. If the core PvP incorporated these things, currently incorporating zero, we’d no doubt have a few more PL teams. For the reason I said before, it wouldn’t even be a big change.

The Pro League is highly competitive outside of a few anomalies. I’d argue it would be more competitive with a pause feature and limiting the number of teams a player can ever represent in a season to 1, subs discluded.

Disconnects and team swapping definitely trivialize the EU PL’s competitiveness.

NA PL hasn’t had any interference by those sort of things, and we have a bunch of teams who have shown the ability to take games off of each other.

I’d say it’s clear what the important issues are, ESL rules should be priority tweaked to ensure the results maintain integrity for competitive PL.

ArenaNet should just focus on build diversity in PvP, and improving spectator mode.

I find it hilarious that you people still insist pro league league pvpers are so great mechanical players. It simply isnt true. Gw2 has zero talented gamers. Anyone with a crazy click per minute or micro skill or great timing or reflexes would not play gw2 because its a joke.

And you know how i know this? I never tried in this game, ever. Often played with my cousin just having a laugh and kittening around both in game and on the forums. And i never played against anyone i thought was doing something amazing. And i played vs everyone highly rated . If i go to play the multitude of fps games i play there are people there who are so kittening skilled it blows my mind.

But reaction time does matter:

Did I mention that I’m only Ruby on a monitor that’s only 60 Hz?? A top pro league player would likely score a 150 average or lower on that test. There’s also the precast element especially with elementalist interrupts. You can press air or water focus 5 right when you see a blue glow but due to animation charging time they’ll get the heal off anywhere where if you were on a thief that has distracting daggers activated or a ranger who’s in longbow with point blank shot off cooldown you’d get the skill off.

On one of the uploaded pictures I did very well except blocked a wrong move at one point.

http://www.teyah.net/MilliaBlocker_v0.3.swf

http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime

If i go to play the multitude of fps games i play there are people there who are so kittening skilled it blows my mind.

It is unbelievable but fighting games require yet even more skill. Keep in mind it’s a different skillset needed in MMO’s compared to shooters overall. In MMO’s the biggest priority is resource management whether it is your own or teammates’ HP, keeping track of lots of cooldowns (your own and the opponent’s), conditions and boons, and then you have situational awareness, such as should I bail and head for another node or stay in the fight in the hopes I can turn it around with a well timed heal, interrupt, or overload? In shooters it’s more about your aim (especially aligning your crosshairs with where a head would be), situational awareness, and the environment. Overwatch was quite fun and the skill cap seems overall higher compared to Guild Wars 2.

I’m not trying to say that Guild Wars 2 is overall high skill cap, but that reaction time still matters. I’ve argued before and still stand by how the skill floor needs raising so a bad player’s noobishness can be penalized easier and the skill cap raised, especially in a core Tyria base PvE rework.

leman.7682:

I’m dropping my diplomatic attitude for a while. Let me tell you that from a perspective of someone who interacts with real-life professionals, nothing, nothing in GW2 is professional. ESL are like kids in a playground – no direction, horrible organisation, abhorrent conduct, thoughtlessly designed ProLeague rules, no balls for taking quick and real action, no proper communication, and absolutely disgusting music on breaks during ProLeague.
Anet? Same – no direction for the game, no balance, no communication, no substantial action taken to fix the state of affairs.
Players? Money-hungry kids using dirty tricks to have their shot at earning their first money in life. Hiding behind stupid rules and terrible design.

Since most people seem not to realise that – people in real life get fired for such behaviour, because the moment things go wrong and customers start complaining, the real professionals at the top start cleaning the mess up. That’s what GW2 is – a total mess, and there are no professionals to clean it up.
I never thought I’d say that but the only ones who deserve recognition are the duo of EU shoutcasters (I don’t watch NA, so no opinion there) who work in this rough environment and somehow manage to keep their kitten together.

I took a 5-month-something break from active playing and I wanted to come back for good for S3. I log in, no one’s online, see people logging in every few days just to chat and bash the game. That’s a major waste of time. As Henry put it – shambles.

Most of the intelligent human beings already quit because there’s just so much rubbish you can take before you notice that it’s going nowhere and the remains of faith for Anet that still linger are not enough to counterbalance the top releases at the end of May. We can always come back since the game will surely live on and there’s no barriers, but one has got to be delusional to think that new games designed bottom-up for PvP releasing in the coming years won’t challenge GW2 to the point of being obsolete. No fun left.

Ohh, and I saw a guy with Chaos Gloves and a sloth on his back spamming quaggans wearing aviator caps and flying attached to balloons. What is this kitten art direction? Your game used to look like a painting, and then you decided to add wings.

Ohh-encore, and writing here is also a waste of time because let’s face it, no one with real power reads it, making it just an echo chamber, and a fight club.

Yup. Spot on as usual dude. The problem with the whole esports thing is that it just displays the game in a terrible light when it is actually a well coded and designed game. But its just not cut out for competitive pvp for money. So in fact, all their 400k does is makes people think the game is a joke. A big reason for gw2s damaged reputation online is the pro league and the esports in general. They should cut it immediately if they want to maintain whats left of the reputation of the game.

And I agree on the games art direction. They added a load of BS for my little pony fans into the gem store. It used to have great art. Now its just pink quaggan back packs and other rubbish like that. The game in pve and wvw is no longer serious as a result. There is no grit to the art anymore. Its just a load of pink shiny stuff that doesnt fit with the world they created in anyway whatsoever.

Lordrosicky.5813:

A big reason for gw2s damaged reputation online is the pro league and the esports in general. They should cut it immediately if they want to maintain whats left of the reputation of the game.

Cutting PL won’t create more fun build options. Cutting PL won’t re-instate the cancelled new legendary weapon project. Cutting PL won’t give WvWrs the last 8 months of their game mode back, and it won’t do crap to help the game’s reputation.

Let’s not further alienate any of the crowds that ArenaNet still have who are enjoying their game. All cutting PL would do is allow for more useless online banner ads. Cheers to that trade, glad you have no power in the matter, that’s fer’ sure.

Lordrosicky.5813:

leman.7682:

I’m dropping my diplomatic attitude for a while. Let me tell you that from a perspective of someone who interacts with real-life professionals, nothing, nothing in GW2 is professional. ESL are like kids in a playground – no direction, horrible organisation, abhorrent conduct, thoughtlessly designed ProLeague rules, no balls for taking quick and real action, no proper communication, and absolutely disgusting music on breaks during ProLeague.
Anet? Same – no direction for the game, no balance, no communication, no substantial action taken to fix the state of affairs.
Players? Money-hungry kids using dirty tricks to have their shot at earning their first money in life. Hiding behind stupid rules and terrible design.

Since most people seem not to realize that – people in real life get fired for such behaviour, because the moment things go wrong and customers start complaining, the real professionals at the top start cleaning the mess up. That’s what GW2 is – a total mess, and there are no professionals to clean it up.
I never thought I’d say that but the only ones who deserve recognition are the duo of EU shoutcasters (I don’t watch NA, so no opinion there) who work in this rough environment and somehow manage to keep their kitten together.

I took a 5-month-something break from active playing and I wanted to come back for good for S3. I log in, no one’s online, see people logging in every few days just to chat and bash the game. That’s a major waste of time. As Henry put it – shambles.

Most of the intelligent human beings already quit because there’s just so much rubbish you can take before you notice that it’s going nowhere and the remains of faith for Anet that still linger are not enough to counterbalance the top releases at the end of May. We can always come back since the game will surely live on and there’s no barriers, but one has got to be delusional to think that new games designed bottom-up for PvP releasing in the coming years won’t challenge GW2 to the point of being obsolete. No fun left.

Ohh, and I saw a guy with Chaos Gloves and a sloth on his back spamming quaggans wearing aviator caps and flying attached to balloons. What is this kitten art direction? Your game used to look like a painting, and then you decided to add wings.

Ohh-encore, and writing here is also a waste of time because let’s face it, no one with real power reads it, making it just an echo chamber, and a fight club.

Yup. Spot on as usual dude. The problem with the whole esports thing is that it just displays the game in a terrible light when it is actually a well coded and designed game. But its just not cut out for competitive pvp for money. So in fact, all their 400k does is makes people think the game is a joke. A big reason for gw2s damaged reputation online is the pro league and the esports in general. They should cut it immediately if they want to maintain whats left of the reputation of the game.

And I agree on the games art direction. They added a load of BS for My Little Pony fans into the gem store. It used to have great art. Now it’s just pink quaggan back packs and other rubbish like that. The game in pve and wvw is no longer serious as a result. There is no grit to the art anymore. Its just a load of pink shiny stuff that doesnt fit with the world they created in anyway whatsoever.

I’m still waiting on that Pony finisher and made the Dreamer before it was an MLP reference. Why do you even want the PvE game to be “serious” anyway? I think pink quaggans and all that silly stuff is fun and lightens the game’s mood. If anything they haven’t gone far enough, I want my T-Rex humanoid race riding a skateboard! :D Doesn’t even have to be a mastery could be a simple toy. And what’s wrong with the Pro-League music? Is everything suddenly worthy of complaint now? If the game were totally dull color and design wise it’d get boring, no one wants to see the 10 billionth Lord of the Rings copy people want to see cool and fun stuff too.

Chaith.8256:

Lordrosicky.5813:

A big reason for gw2s damaged reputation online is the pro league and the esports in general. They should cut it immediately if they want to maintain whats left of the reputation of the game.

Cutting PL won’t create more fun build options. Cutting PL won’t re-instate the cancelled new legendary weapon project. Cutting PL won’t give WvWrs the last 8 months of their game mode back, and it won’t do crap to help the game’s reputation.

Let’s not further alienate any of the crowds that ArenaNet still have who are enjoying their game. All cutting PL would do is allow for more useless online banner ads. Cheers to that trade, glad you have no power in the matter, that’s fer’ sure.

Putting up banners doesnt put people off the game though does it dude. The pro league does because it just projects a shambles to the internet. The game is great thats the thing. Sure the pvp and wvw has lost its way and some stuff now sucks. But at its core this is a well designed, well produced and well optimised game.

As for build options etc, way too often everyone blames the balance team. They do a good job. OFC they are going to balance for pve more than pvp when thats how they make basically 100% of their money. You think anyone in competitive pvp is going on the gem store and buying a kittenload of skins for real money? In general this game has some of the best devs I have ever seen in the gaming industry.

The point me and others are making is that the pro league is NEGATIVE publicity.

Agemnon.4608:

Lordrosicky.5813:

leman.7682:

I’m dropping my diplomatic attitude for a while. Let me tell you that from a perspective of someone who interacts with real-life professionals, nothing, nothing in GW2 is professional. ESL are like kids in a playground – no direction, horrible organisation, abhorrent conduct, thoughtlessly designed ProLeague rules, no balls for taking quick and real action, no proper communication, and absolutely disgusting music on breaks during ProLeague.
Anet? Same – no direction for the game, no balance, no communication, no substantial action taken to fix the state of affairs.
Players? Money-hungry kids using dirty tricks to have their shot at earning their first money in life. Hiding behind stupid rules and terrible design.

Since most people seem not to realize that – people in real life get fired for such behaviour, because the moment things go wrong and customers start complaining, the real professionals at the top start cleaning the mess up. That’s what GW2 is – a total mess, and there are no professionals to clean it up.
I never thought I’d say that but the only ones who deserve recognition are the duo of EU shoutcasters (I don’t watch NA, so no opinion there) who work in this rough environment and somehow manage to keep their kitten together.

I took a 5-month-something break from active playing and I wanted to come back for good for S3. I log in, no one’s online, see people logging in every few days just to chat and bash the game. That’s a major waste of time. As Henry put it – shambles.

Most of the intelligent human beings already quit because there’s just so much rubbish you can take before you notice that it’s going nowhere and the remains of faith for Anet that still linger are not enough to counterbalance the top releases at the end of May. We can always come back since the game will surely live on and there’s no barriers, but one has got to be delusional to think that new games designed bottom-up for PvP releasing in the coming years won’t challenge GW2 to the point of being obsolete. No fun left.

Ohh, and I saw a guy with Chaos Gloves and a sloth on his back spamming quaggans wearing aviator caps and flying attached to balloons. What is this kitten art direction? Your game used to look like a painting, and then you decided to add wings.

Ohh-encore, and writing here is also a waste of time because let’s face it, no one with real power reads it, making it just an echo chamber, and a fight club.

Yup. Spot on as usual dude. The problem with the whole esports thing is that it just displays the game in a terrible light when it is actually a well coded and designed game. But its just not cut out for competitive pvp for money. So in fact, all their 400k does is makes people think the game is a joke. A big reason for gw2s damaged reputation online is the pro league and the esports in general. They should cut it immediately if they want to maintain whats left of the reputation of the game.

And I agree on the games art direction. They added a load of BS for My Little Pony fans into the gem store. It used to have great art. Now it’s just pink quaggan back packs and other rubbish like that. The game in pve and wvw is no longer serious as a result. There is no grit to the art anymore. Its just a load of pink shiny stuff that doesnt fit with the world they created in anyway whatsoever.

I’m still waiting on that Pony finisher and made the Dreamer before it was an MLP reference. Why do you even want the PvE game to be “serious” anyway? I think pink quaggans and all that silly stuff is fun and lightens the game’s mood. If anything they haven’t gone far enough, I want my T-Rex humanoid race riding a skateboard! Doesn’t even have to be a mastery could be a simple toy. And what’s wrong with the Pro-League music? Is everything suddenly worthy of complaint now? If the game were totally dull color and design wise it’d get boring, no one wants to see the 10 billionth Lord of the Rings copy people want to see cool and fun stuff too.

Because the lore of the game is based on serious issues and its a war torn world and you, as a character, run around helping people with the nasty enemies causing them problems. That is the entirety of the game. Running around with my little pony backpacks spouting hearts out of your backside is really not fitting with that world. It isnt about being serious. its about maintaining the feeling of the game world.

Agemnon.4608:

Lordrosicky.5813:

leman.7682:

I’m dropping my diplomatic attitude for a while. Let me tell you that from a perspective of someone who interacts with real-life professionals, nothing, nothing in GW2 is professional. ESL are like kids in a playground – no direction, horrible organisation, abhorrent conduct, thoughtlessly designed ProLeague rules, no balls for taking quick and real action, no proper communication, and absolutely disgusting music on breaks during ProLeague.
Anet? Same – no direction for the game, no balance, no communication, no substantial action taken to fix the state of affairs.
Players? Money-hungry kids using dirty tricks to have their shot at earning their first money in life. Hiding behind stupid rules and terrible design.

Since most people seem not to realize that – people in real life get fired for such behaviour, because the moment things go wrong and customers start complaining, the real professionals at the top start cleaning the mess up. That’s what GW2 is – a total mess, and there are no professionals to clean it up.
I never thought I’d say that but the only ones who deserve recognition are the duo of EU shoutcasters (I don’t watch NA, so no opinion there) who work in this rough environment and somehow manage to keep their kitten together.

I took a 5-month-something break from active playing and I wanted to come back for good for S3. I log in, no one’s online, see people logging in every few days just to chat and bash the game. That’s a major waste of time. As Henry put it – shambles.

Most of the intelligent human beings already quit because there’s just so much rubbish you can take before you notice that it’s going nowhere and the remains of faith for Anet that still linger are not enough to counterbalance the top releases at the end of May. We can always come back since the game will surely live on and there’s no barriers, but one has got to be delusional to think that new games designed bottom-up for PvP releasing in the coming years won’t challenge GW2 to the point of being obsolete. No fun left.

Ohh, and I saw a guy with Chaos Gloves and a sloth on his back spamming quaggans wearing aviator caps and flying attached to balloons. What is this kitten art direction? Your game used to look like a painting, and then you decided to add wings.

Ohh-encore, and writing here is also a waste of time because let’s face it, no one with real power reads it, making it just an echo chamber, and a fight club.

Yup. Spot on as usual dude. The problem with the whole esports thing is that it just displays the game in a terrible light when it is actually a well coded and designed game. But its just not cut out for competitive pvp for money. So in fact, all their 400k does is makes people think the game is a joke. A big reason for gw2s damaged reputation online is the pro league and the esports in general. They should cut it immediately if they want to maintain whats left of the reputation of the game.

And I agree on the games art direction. They added a load of BS for My Little Pony fans into the gem store. It used to have great art. Now it’s just pink quaggan back packs and other rubbish like that. The game in pve and wvw is no longer serious as a result. There is no grit to the art anymore. Its just a load of pink shiny stuff that doesnt fit with the world they created in anyway whatsoever.

I’m still waiting on that Pony finisher and made the Dreamer before it was an MLP reference. Why do you even want the PvE game to be “serious” anyway? I think pink quaggans and all that silly stuff is fun and lightens the game’s mood. If anything they haven’t gone far enough, I want my T-Rex humanoid race riding a skateboard! Doesn’t even have to be a mastery could be a simple toy. And what’s wrong with the Pro-League music? Is everything suddenly worthy of complaint now? If the game were totally dull color and design wise it’d get boring, no one wants to see the 10 billionth Lord of the Rings copy people want to see cool and fun stuff too.

Didn’t know if you knew about it or not, but the finisher sort of already exists.

Rainbow Unicorn Finisher

YouTube Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hphY7mwrCeQ

Wikki:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Permanent_Unicorn_Finisher

Didn’t know if you knew about it or not, but the finisher sort of already exists.
Rainbow Unicorn Finisher

Of course I know it exists, I explicitly referenced it and seen it in action. It only seems to be available whenever I’m taking a big break from the game. :(

I’m overall satisfied with the quaggans and llama though one can never have too many finishers.

Because the lore of the game is based on serious issues and its a war torn world and you, as a character, run around helping people with the nasty enemies causing them problems. That is the entirety of the game.

Adventure Time takes place in a post-apocolyptic era and has a dark history but still manages to be whimsical. Everything tries so hard to be gritty and grit has so oversaturated everything that people started looking for something else.

Cutting PL won’t create more fun build options. Cutting PL won’t re-instate the cancelled new legendary weapon project. Cutting PL won’t give WvWrs the last 8 months of their game mode back, and it won’t do crap to help the game’s reputation.

I think what he was trying to say was the game simply wasn’t ready for a pro-league. The potential was there but unfortunately the game has too many variables at a base level to balance properly. With revenant added we have 8,001 potential matchups not counting the different ways a single class can be traited, weapon, sigil, rune, and utility choices, etc. In other words it’s very easy to overlook adding cheese to the game despite the devs’ best efforts. Sure there’s still some degree of skill and on the fly judgments but e-sports need to be spectator friendly too.

if you are functioning alcoholic and still performing, nobody cares.
Sure .. if you are working at McDonalds

He wasn’t on the clock and didn’t say anything offensive. He just said what he thought.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Chaith.8256:

Lordrosicky.5813:

A big reason for gw2s damaged reputation online is the pro league and the esports in general. They should cut it immediately if they want to maintain whats left of the reputation of the game.

Cutting PL won’t create more fun build options. Cutting PL won’t re-instate the cancelled new legendary weapon project. Cutting PL won’t give WvWrs the last 8 months of their game mode back, and it won’t do crap to help the game’s reputation.

Let’s not further alienate any of the crowds that ArenaNet still have who are enjoying their game. All cutting PL would do is allow for more useless online banner ads. Cheers to that trade, glad you have no power in the matter, that’s fer’ sure.

Putting up banners doesnt put people off the game though does it dude. The pro league does because it just projects a shambles to the internet. The game is great thats the thing. Sure the pvp and wvw has lost its way and some stuff now sucks. But at its core this is a well designed, well produced and well optimised game.

As for build options etc, way too often everyone blames the balance team. They do a good job. OFC they are going to balance for pve more than pvp when thats how they make basically 100% of their money. You think anyone in competitive pvp is going on the gem store and buying a kittenload of skins for real money? In general this game has some of the best devs I have ever seen in the gaming industry.

The point me and others are making is that the pro league is NEGATIVE publicity.

Having a PL doesn’t put the game in anymore negative light than it may or may not have been. People just want something to bang around as their next object of complaint. It’s usually those who cannot participate in it. I for one enjoy what little they offer in the way of a PL.

Agemnon.4608:

I think what he was trying to say was the game simply wasn’t ready for a pro-league. The potential was there but unfortunately the game has too many variables at a base level to balance properly. With revenant added we have 8,001 potential matchups not counting the different ways a single class can be traited, weapon, sigil, rune, and utility choices, etc. In other words it’s very easy to overlook adding cheese to the game despite the devs’ best efforts. Sure there’s still some degree of skill and on the fly judgments but e-sports need to be spectator friendly too.

No, he said what he was trying to say. After a handful of posts it’s pretty obvious that he thinks Guild Wars 2 would instantly have a better reputation and higher approval if the Pro League was suddenly cancelled, and like I’ve been saying.. clearly if one thinks this, they haven’t stopped to think about what scrapping a project and filling that time in people’s schedules with nothing does for approval ratings.

And as for the direction you took the discussion, saying that GW2 is not ready for a Pro League because of complex class balance, I think you’re correct, but there are many more things of greater importance into whether a Pro League is incredibly entertaining or not. Things like

• How well matched the teams are. It’d be a better if half of the PL wans’t the top 4 teams smashing the bottom 4 teams. Preferably implement two divisions based on seeding/current results, with the matches ability to move up/down mid season.

• How fast/slow paced the game score, including how long each fight is. Problems are occurring when fights drag on forever. This eliminates any connection you have with the results of the fight. This is where balance needs tweaking to ensure it stays within an exciting and watchable parameter.

• How smooth the spectator experience is. Some improvements are needed, perhaps free camera movement, less jarring transitions to make the viewer feel less dizzy, pause features, split camera/picture in picture, instant replay feature. Some professional production quality would be nice.

Inter class balance is definitely up there, but if we’re even talking about it before some of the really important ones, priorities should be straightened.

Agemnon.4608:

Didn’t know if you knew about it or not, but the finisher sort of already exists.
Rainbow Unicorn Finisher

Of course I know it exists, I explicitly referenced it and seen it in action. It only seems to be available whenever I’m taking a big break from the game.

I’m overall satisfied with the quaggans and llama though one can never have too many finishers.

Because the lore of the game is based on serious issues and its a war torn world and you, as a character, run around helping people with the nasty enemies causing them problems. That is the entirety of the game.

Adventure Time takes place in a post-apocolyptic era and has a dark history but still manages to be whimsical. Everything tries so hard to be gritty and grit has so oversaturated everything that people started looking for something else.

Cutting PL won’t create more fun build options. Cutting PL won’t re-instate the cancelled new legendary weapon project. Cutting PL won’t give WvWrs the last 8 months of their game mode back, and it won’t do crap to help the game’s reputation.

I think what he was trying to say was the game simply wasn’t ready for a pro-league. The potential was there but unfortunately the game has too many variables at a base level to balance properly. With revenant added we have 8,001 potential matchups not counting the different ways a single class can be traited, weapon, sigil, rune, and utility choices, etc. In other words it’s very easy to overlook adding cheese to the game despite the devs’ best efforts. Sure there’s still some degree of skill and on the fly judgments but e-sports need to be spectator friendly too.

if you are functioning alcoholic and still performing, nobody cares.
Sure .. if you are working at McDonalds

He wasn’t on the clock and didn’t say anything offensive. He just said what he thought.

Ah ok, i misunderstood what you meant.