Guild Wars 2

Hello, ladies and Gentlemen. This post here I created to discuss why people think Eles is Op. I main an Eles, I will try to be not biased as possible to break down why in my opnion Eles is good but no way near Op.

I heard a lot of people saying Eles is so good at Mobility and being Godly at Healing Power,Dealing so much Dam, Control too much,etc..etc…I will break down why Eles class need all these.

Being an Eles, a class that has LOWEST Hp Pool as well as LOWEST Toughness, plus being FORCED into MELEE, how can we stand a chance with all other melee class?We have no Stealth Ability like Thief, No Tanky as Guard or War, No making clone ability as Mesmer, No KB control as Engineer, No Pet protection as Ranger,No Second Health Pool as Necro,so again, how do we survive? Anet has done a good job to come up with a solution, MOBILITY. The reason why we are so good at Mobility is because we NEED it.With all the reason I have stated, I don’t think Good mobility,not OP, is too much to ask for. And I think the only good Mobility we have is Ride The Lightning as people marked GODLY. Please take note that while in the FULL duration of RTL, we are NOT able to use any skill AT ALL, and can be Immobilized, and taking Dam as normal.

Eles is so kitten good at Healing Power, I agree. Why is that? Because we Spec for it!!! With 30 in Water that give +300 Healing Power, I believe that makes sense. Question to all QQer, why not try to give 30 in ur Healing Trait, I believe u will heal as much as us, or maybe even better. And why do we have 30 pts in Water Trait?It not like we want to but because we have to. Except for Air, Water,Arcana, ALL our other trait is useless, or Require to be in ONE attunement to get Effective. I know that u guys all know that Eles is a Jack of all Trade, so sitting in ONE Attunment is asking for a Deathwish. Being Lowest Health Pool among all + Lowest Toughness, Healing is the only way we can survive plus Good Mobility. We can;t take extreme Hit like Guard or War,All our Def comes from Active Dodge and Healing. I would be Happy to be LESS Healing If ANET agree to give Eles SAME Toughness and HP Pool as Other Class.

Did I forget to Mention we CAN’T Swap Weapon as other Class, and choosing D/D forced to be in Melee FOREVER? Oh pls don’t mention with Focus or Scepter, they are just so NOT VIABLE.

“ kitten Cantri kitten o OP!!!” With all our Utilities being so Crap. (Arcane Speel deal Kitten Dam, Conjure Weapon block all our Skill and if u want to get access, u have to give up the Weapon, Pet is so Squishy, Signet is just Ah….) So CAntrip is The Only Way to go. Less Cantrip using is always what I WISH for, but if all our other skill being just as Good As Cantrip, I am Happy to do so.

“Mistform”, Free Godly Escape Card.. By using Mist Form, we are Unable to use any of our skill. Unlike Endure Pain like War or Shield Bubble like Guard, Blurred Frenzy as Mesmer,etc.. If u see us using Misform, why not give urself a 3s Break since you know we are UNABLE to do anything?

“Deal too much DPS”, I belive the only Trait we have access to which give us Power is Arcane Swap and 2% Extra Dam Per Boons in Water Trait, Furry on Air 1. Might? Yeah, we are already Low on Power, Might does not give us much extra Dams. 2% Extra Dams per Boon, on other class, they have +10% Dam OUTRIGHT, to be Equal to that Trait, we have to Stack up to 5 Boons, and yeah I agree that Eles is Good at Stacking Boon. However, I don’t think we will NEVER be able to get more than 6 Boons. +12% Extra Dam on an already LOW Dam, is not a big deal either. Just like 12% of 100 is not as much as 10% of 1000, anyway, you got what I mean. Furry which give you 20% Crit Chance, and Crit Chance give u access to Crit Dams. I hardly see any Eles Specs 30 into Air, or Use Runes that give a lot of Precision (Runes of Eagle for Exps). So as 0/10/0/30/30, assume I use Runes of Eagle, which give me 25-30% of Crit Chance. Crit Dams is decided by Power.Again 30% Crit Dam of 1000 Power is not as hard as 30% Crit Dam of 2000 Power.

I believe this is not all the Reason why people think Eles is so OP atm, the list will keep going on and on. I will leave that to all other who come to read it.

P/S: This is a Constructive Post, for those who are Rock Headed, No Brain, Close Mind, Trolling,etc… This post is not the place for you. Please find your approriate somewhere else. Sorry for my Bad English

http://www.twitch.tv/saetiasc/c/1827679

that should be explanation enough hehe :P

Don’t compare ele to the warrior. Warriors atm are so much worse.
Anyway, most of what you say is true however, I do think that eles are in a good place – any lower and people will become seriously frustrated considering PvP balancing would impact PvE as well and getting an ele to 80 is quite the pain already – their roles are pretty much set in PvE. In PvP, they’re far from invincible – they’re just good at maintaining a balance of mobility and tankiness in healing. Because of that low healthpool which we exchange for great healing, great healing eles are playing on the edge. Two glasses can burst down an ele very quickly given their low health pool, and they’re not as good in holding a point as a bunker guardian and definitely loses out to bunker engineers.

Right now Eles stand in my mind along the other 5 classes in tPvP potential. In SPvP, mesmer, theif, ranger, and guardians are king. If anything, it’s thieves and warriors that need to be brought up in potential for tPvP, not so much that the ele needs to be brought down if at all. It is weird that eles get so much negative attention when the other top tier tPvP classes have about the same potential and get a lot fewer complaints every update than eles

^that video was also from 3 months ago before nerfs and was played in WvW – this is sPvP, remember? Also, those reds did not seem like geared out 80s in PvE – This is impossible to do now, with competent opposing players.

Nerf thieves they are OP…
See vid

Best pblank aoe damage(stackable);
best aoe boon sharing;
best aoe condition cleansing;
best aoe party healing;
2nd best point holding;
best 1v1 class;
like you pointed out, best mobility;
good cd;
highest room for error in any class;
see a pattern? and all this is worse because you can stack eles and multiply all this.
do you realize how delusional your post is?

I main a mesmer and I dont find Eles OP. Mist form? I can press on F4 and have 4 seconds of invulnerability AND I can still attack and use skills and such. After that, blurred frenzy, an extra 2 seconds of invuln while dealing damage.

Ride the lightning? I can use my blink at 1200 range.. Just as far as ride the lightning.. thieves shortbow #5, rangers GS#3, warriors GS#3 and 5 and so on.

Healing power, you specced for it so you should heal alot. Complaining about that is like saying GC builds shouldnt be able to do alot of burst damage. They specced for it, so deal with the eles healing power.

Too much DPS? lol nah. I hit way much more than the ele you describe. If people dont know how to dodge certain attacks ofcourse they will shout that you do too much damage…

I have fought many Eles 1v1, and I have lost and won from them. Some were just better players than me and some were worse and lost to me.

All in all, Eles are NOT OP. If something is OP then its the QQpower of all the noobs that dont know how to counter other classes.

@Ahuba,

its funny cause its not true. Your hate for Eles makes you biased. best 1v1 class lololol.

I think ele is op cause everyone says so. Also mesmer is op cause they have been op all the time since release and thief are op cause you need to spam only heartseeker to farm the whole enemy team 1 vs 5(edit: according to others… never tried and I’m a noob so I just believe what the other pros are telling me).

Kamata.5762:

@Ahuba,

its funny cause its not true. Your hate for Eles makes you biased. best 1v1 class lololol.

So burst damage decides the best 1v1 class? The only class which is as good in 1v1 as an elementalist is mesmer with bad mobility, bad sustain and bad aoe.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Analysis-of-Cantrips-Eles/first
Nice analysis of cantrip eles by Symbolic.

Discussion: Why people think Eles is Op?

Because when damage-dealers go all-in on them, they don’t die right away. And when your whole team focuses them, they don’t die right away. However, when they decide to fight you back, they effectively set you up to be killed. Some may argue that they’re too effective at what they do.

That’s the basic gist of everything. If every class in the game could fulfill those criteria listed above, then there wouldn’t be a balance issue.

Kamata.5762:

@Ahuba,

its funny cause its not true. Your hate for Eles makes you biased. best 1v1 class lololol.

i hate eles so much that its my most played profession but ye man, im sorry, im noob, keep enjoying triple ele comps

only OP think about ele is extreme synergy of 1 build…

you can get 3 utility skills which are considered cantrips, all are stun breakers

in adition, ele have at least 5 major and few minor traits, which offers exceptional synergy with these utility skills and with each other, this results in a bit over the top build with very good defense and still good damage

problem is that ele dont have many builds, maybe 2 good builds, when this get nerfed, he needs a buff to other unused parts

balance should come in next patch, maybe some nerfs and probably some counter for boon oriented build (build metioned above is heavy boon oriented too)

zone.1073:

Because when damage-dealers go all-in on them, they don’t die right away.

I’ve yet to meet a competently played bunker from any class that dies right away 1v1.

And when your whole team focuses them, they don’t die right away.

Only if your team is shockingly bad.

Caffynated.5713:

zone.1073:

Because when damage-dealers go all-in on them, they don’t die right away.

I’ve yet to meet a competently played bunker from any class that dies right away 1v1.

And when your whole team focuses them, they don’t die right away.

Only if your team is shockingly bad.

except even if the ele doesnt have all bunker traits and bunker amulet he still outlives everybody. a semi bunker ele can dishout 3/4 k fire 3 and 4, 4/5k fire grab, 7 k churning earth….

I agree that Eles is in a Good Place but No Where is OP like most people complaining.

@ahuba:
-Best pblank AOE Dam : No comment on this because I think the roles of Eles that Anet want is to soften a number of Mobs for the pt to kill and plus I don’t know any other class that has AOE as many as Eles does. But, since that is our roles and Anet does not give us so many Option for Solo Skil, so we have no choice but to adapt it. The action Anet should be taken is to give other class some AOE, not Nerf AOE dams.

-Best Boons Sharing: Anet has designed Eles to be as Support Role. What else can we do as Support role with no Boon Sharing? And I think Engineer is better on this than us. Except Fury, Might, all of other boons, I believe is not useful in Melee Combat. And yes we need Vigor, Renegeration, Protection because we are LOWEST HP pool AND LOWEST Armor among all

-Best AOE Condition Cleaning: I belive only Water 5 in Dagger, and Water 5 in Staff that ACTUALLY AOE condition Cleaning, and by switching Attunement. Even so, Staff is not as good as Dagger in sPVP. That’s why people play D/D. Cleansing Flame and other Trait only applied to ELES himself. And Yes we do Need Conditon Cleaning because we have the LOWEST HP pool among all. Without it, we are DEAD.

-Best AOE party healing: Most of Eles that spec into 30 in Water which give +300 Healing power, that is why we heal so much. Read of my post about Healing to understand why. And Anet makes Eles as support role, think Eles like Healer in other MMO.

-2nd Best Holding Point: Sorry, I disagree with u on this. On my top list, Guard, and Engineer can do this job Better than ANYBODY. To Hold a Point, you need to stay inside the circle and knock opponent out of Circle, so what do we have? UPDRAFT? That’s it, only Updraft.. While Guard with their Shield Buble knock u down and give no access to the circle, Engine with all the Turret that Immbolize and guarding the Area, Shield 4. So on this matter, Guard and Engineer is the best candidates.

-Best 1vs1 Class: Again, most Eles spec for Bunker which is 0/10/0/30/30. And Bunker means to Survive more than 1+ enemy at anytime given. However, downside is, their Dams is so kitten. And by Kitten, I mean Really Kitten.If u are defeated by an Eles on 1vs1, either he is not Bunker Build or he is a very skill player. Rewarding for being Skillfully play which I find is fair enough. And I think Mesmer is Way Better than us on this matter.

-Mobility: I say Good, not Best. Reason why?Please read my post. Just a kind Reminder, with Lowest Health Pool and Lowest Armor and being Forced to Meelee, how else we can survive except mobility? Even then, all we have is RtL. Why RtL is Good but not Godly, pls read my post again. I am all ear if you have any new Suggestion on that matter.

-Good cd? You mean Crowd Control? Right, all we have is Updraft and Earthquake, what else do we have which you can think of, pls tell?

-Highest Room for Error in any class: Again, most Eles is Bunker Build, Bunker is what I understand you know. I believe EVERY class can do the same IF they spec as Bunker.

And Yes, I see all the patter you given and all of that I have explained on my post.

“except even if the ele doesnt have all bunker traits and bunker amulet he still outlives everybody. a semi bunker ele can dishout 3/4 k fire 3 and 4, 4/5k fire grab, 7 k churning earth….” Eh? No, Sorry. That is why their is Guardian there, I believe Anet won’t make such a mistake like that.And if Eles does not trait for Bunker, he will down fast,way faster than a Guard Zerker or War Zerker or any other Zerker Class. Fire 3 4K only if u are facing a Wall, so Burning Foot get all dams to you, and it is so easy to Dodge too. Just Dodge the final moment when it reach you and you will see the Real Dam of Fire 3. Fire Grab 5k Woa I truly wish I could land Fire Grab more reliability.It miss me like what 7 out of 10 tries? And 5k Fire Grab, if even it is true, you Have to be on Burning and it Have to HIT. 7k Chunning Earth?? With 4s casting time and you can;t even dodge it. I think you need to learn how to dodge CE, when he cast CE,wait for 3sec then Doge or Blind Him, there you go 4s wasted. And plus he is a sankitten for you to punch while casting it.. The most I can hit with CE on mine is 5k, and that is on CRIT

@Raptured: If I have offended you, I am sorry. I agree that War need some buff, they are just do thing easily straight forward. I used War or any other class just to show that what Eles can do, other can do it too, be it harder or easier. And that is why we have different class to choose and each has its own role,its own strong point and weakness.

@Luthan “I think ele is op cause everyone says so. Also mesmer is op cause they have been op all the time since release and thief are op cause you need to spam only heartseeker to farm the whole enemy team 1 vs 5(edit: according to others… never tried and I’m a noob so I just believe what the other pros are telling me)” How about “Hey, most of the scientist aprroved that the Sun moving around the Earth and you believe it just because most of them said so?” Sorry if I have offend you.

ahuba.6430:

except even if the ele doesnt have all bunker traits and bunker amulet he still outlives everybody.

Not sure if serious… but just in case:

a semi bunker ele can dishout 3/4 k fire 3 and 4, 4/5k fire grab, 7 k churning earth….

A “semi bunker ele” whose main stat is power, and has ~50% +crit damage (glass canon level), can deal that kind of damage using long cooldown abilities (45 seconds on fire grab) on about one in three attempts against a glass canon who invested nothing in defense.

Is that really the argument you’re going to go with? Seriously?

Seriously?

Stealth.9324:

I agree that Eles is in a Good Place but No Where is OP like most people complaining.

@ahuba:
-Best pblank AOE Dam : No comment on this because I think the roles of Eles that Anet want is to soften a number of Mobs for the pt to kill and plus I don’t know any other class that has AOE as many as Eles does. But, since that is our roles and Anet does not give us so many Option for Solo Skil, so we have no choice but to adapt it. The action Anet should be taken is to give other class some AOE, not Nerf AOE dams.

-Best Boons Sharing: Anet has designed Eles to be as Support Role. What else can we do as Support role with no Boon Sharing? And I think Engineer is better on this than us. Except Fury, Might, all of other boons, I believe is not useful in Melee Combat. And yes we need Vigor, Renegeration, Protection because we are LOWEST HP pool AND LOWEST Armor among all

-Best AOE Condition Cleaning: I belive only Water 5 in Dagger, and Water 5 in Staff that ACTUALLY AOE condition Cleaning, and by switching Attunement. Even so, Staff is not as good as Dagger in sPVP. That’s why people play D/D. Cleansing Flame and other Trait only applied to ELES himself. And Yes we do Need Conditon Cleaning because we have the LOWEST HP pool among all. Without it, we are DEAD.

-Best AOE party healing: Most of Eles that spec into 30 in Water which give +300 Healing power, that is why we heal so much. Read of my post about Healing to understand why. And Anet makes Eles as support role, think Eles like Healer in other MMO.

-2nd Best Holding Point: Sorry, I disagree with u on this. On my top list, Guard, and Engineer can do this job Better than ANYBODY. To Hold a Point, you need to stay inside the circle and knock opponent out of Circle, so what do we have? UPDRAFT? That’s it, only Updraft.. While Guard with their Shield Buble knock u down and give no access to the circle, Engine with all the Turret that Immbolize and guarding the Area, Shield 4. So on this matter, Guard and Engineer is the best candidates.

-Best 1vs1 Class: Again, most Eles spec for Bunker which is 0/10/0/30/30. And Bunker means to Survive more than 1+ enemy at anytime given. However, downside is, their Dams is so kitten. And by Kitten, I mean Really Kitten.If u are defeated by an Eles on 1vs1, either he is not Bunker Build or he is a very skill player. Rewarding for being Skillfully play which I find is fair enough. And I think Mesmer is Way Better than us on this matter.

-Mobility: I say Good, not Best. Reason why?Please read my post. Just a kind Reminder, with Lowest Health Pool and Lowest Armor and being Forced to Meelee, how else we can survive except mobility? Even then, all we have is RtL. Why RtL is Good but not Godly, pls read my post again. I am all ear if you have any new Suggestion on that matter.

-Good cd? You mean Crowd Control? Right, all we have is Updraft and Earthquake, what else do we have which you can think of, pls tell?

-Highest Room for Error in any class: Again, most Eles is Bunker Build, Bunker is what I understand you know. I believe EVERY class can do the same IF they spec as Bunker.

And Yes, I see all the patter you given and all of that I have explained on my post.

@Raptured: If I have offended you, I am sorry. I agree that War need some buff, they are just do thing easily straight forward. I used War or any other class just to show that what Eles can do, other can do it too, be it harder or easier. And that is why we have different class to choose and each has its own role,its own strong point and weakness.

you dont get it do you.
eles have ALL that you said, in ONE spec. in ONE! they spec bunker and they are still damage dealers! they switch to some bunker variaton (0 20 0 20 30) and they’re still semi bunkers with great damage great healing and great everything. in all variatons of the build theres huge room for error.
Eles are in an undefendable OP state in this game, eles are good at everything in this game: point holding, boon sharing, condition cleasing, healing, damage dealing, stomping, roaming…

@ahuba:

Ah Yes, I do get it but No I don’t agree with you.

_Dam Dealers: Put it simple, A bike Run at 40km/h and a Truck run at 40km/h, both will hit you, I ask you who hit Harder?

_Semi Bunker = Equivalent Survival and Dam Deal. They are good but not Great or Excel At. And you forget that Anet definition of Eles" Jack of All Trades", Good but Not Great and No way Near OP

_Huge rooms for Error in All Variation of the Build: Eh?? No, thank you. I wish for it though. Hugh Rooms for Error, try to play Bunker with your class and you will get the same result. In All Variation of the Build? Pls try this specs : 30/30/0/10/0 and tell me how long you survive

PistolWraith.6732:

Kamata.5762:

@Ahuba,

its funny cause its not true. Your hate for Eles makes you biased. best 1v1 class lololol.

So burst damage decides the best 1v1 class? The only class which is as good in 1v1 as an elementalist is mesmer with bad mobility, bad sustain and bad aoe.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Analysis-of-Cantrips-Eles/first
Nice analysis of cantrip eles by Symbolic.

Have you ever see me say burst is best? No. Ele is clearly not the best at 1v1. It depends more on the player who is better. Hell, ive been beaten by a warrior in 1v1 once, he was not your typical 100b warrior. Ive been beaten by Eles, I have won from eles, Ive been beaten by Engineers and I have won from them, ivebeen beaten by every class in the game once and I have won from every class in the game.
Its not the class you play against that decides who is better, it is the player.

Kamata.5762:

PistolWraith.6732:

Kamata.5762:

@Ahuba,

its funny cause its not true. Your hate for Eles makes you biased. best 1v1 class lololol.

So burst damage decides the best 1v1 class? The only class which is as good in 1v1 as an elementalist is mesmer with bad mobility, bad sustain and bad aoe.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Analysis-of-Cantrips-Eles/first
Nice analysis of cantrip eles by Symbolic.

Have you ever see me say burst is best? No. Ele is clearly not the best at 1v1. It depends more on the player who is better. Hell, ive been beaten by a warrior in 1v1 once, he was not your typical 100b warrior. Ive been beaten by Eles, I have won from eles, Ive been beaten by Engineers and I have won from them, ivebeen beaten by every class in the game once and I have won from every class in the game.
Its not the class you play against that decides who is better, it is the player.

When a player push the class to the limit, the class is deciding about loosing or winning. On the same level a mesmer will never win against an ele, same with thief and guardian.

Yes but with an ele you can beat every opponent even as a causal player. If you play warrior you will eat dust all the time.

you read a build and a short guide, you create your very first ele and join hotjoin games. You will never be the last player at the scoretable. Maybe you do not rock in your first games, but you will not suffer hard. Same for thief.

And then go and create your very first warrior….

Caffynated.5713:

ahuba.6430:

except even if the ele doesnt have all bunker traits and bunker amulet he still outlives everybody.

Not sure if serious… but just in case:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZxzJGgox_E

a semi bunker ele can dishout 3/4 k fire 3 and 4, 4/5k fire grab, 7 k churning earth….

A “semi bunker ele” whose main stat is power, and has ~50% +crit damage (glass canon level), can deal that kind of damage using long cooldown abilities (45 seconds on fire grab) on about one in three attempts against a glass canon who invested nothing in defense.

Is that really the argument you’re going to go with? Seriously?

Seriously?

i dont think you can dismiss my arguments when your argument is a youtube video of a facepalm. maybe i exagerated on numbers(people tend to exagerate while argumenting) but even if its just 3k crit burning speed and 2k ring of fire 5 k churning earth its still too much aoe for a spec with great access to healing protective boons etc etc everything i already said.

ahuba.6430:

Caffynated.5713:

ahuba.6430:

except even if the ele doesnt have all bunker traits and bunker amulet he still outlives everybody.

Not sure if serious… but just in case:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZxzJGgox_E

a semi bunker ele can dishout 3/4 k fire 3 and 4, 4/5k fire grab, 7 k churning earth….

A “semi bunker ele” whose main stat is power, and has ~50% +crit damage (glass canon level), can deal that kind of damage using long cooldown abilities (45 seconds on fire grab) on about one in three attempts against a glass canon who invested nothing in defense.

Is that really the argument you’re going to go with? Seriously?

Seriously?

i dont think you can dismiss my arguments when your argument is a youtube video of a facepalm. maybe i exagerated on numbers(people tend to exagerate while argumenting) but even if its just 3k crit burning speed and 2k ring of fire 5 k churning earth its still too much aoe for a spec with great access to healing protective boons etc etc everything i already said.

The dmg is not the problem at all. If you take berzerker amulet you should do that amount of dmg. The problem relies more on the chain-traits. If you would reduce duration of boons about 20 – 30% this would allrdy have a significant effect on the class.

I truly belive you have seen some Eles smashing all their skill of all attunement as soon as they are off CD, have you not? And Do you really have Trouble dealing with them? If u do, I question ur ability to understand the class, no offence though, just that you are not experience yet but skill come with time and pratice

It is like you ride a car, a Manual Car. Ok you read the manual, a guild how to start the car up and running, you jump on a car and you expect to race straight away. Only playing a long time with Eles, you develop a skill called Muscle Memory, you do thinng without even think about it,same with driving manual car for a while.

I did create a Warrior. However,in my opinion if u are new to the class and you want to build into Berzerker straight away which has no room for error, if I say it is ur fault should be fair enough. All class need time to learn, practice and adapt.

ahuba.6430:

Kamata.5762:

@Ahuba,

its funny cause its not true. Your hate for Eles makes you biased. best 1v1 class lololol.

i hate eles so much that its my most played profession but ye man, im sorry, im noob, keep enjoying triple ele comps

Are you sure of that?
You often complained about eles….
And defended thieves….

I find it quite hard to believe…..

LordByron.8369:

ahuba.6430:

Kamata.5762:

@Ahuba,

its funny cause its not true. Your hate for Eles makes you biased. best 1v1 class lololol.

i hate eles so much that its my most played profession but ye man, im sorry, im noob, keep enjoying triple ele comps

Are you sure of that?
You often complained about eles….
And defended thieves….

I find it quite hard to believe…..

i have about the same number of played games with both. whats the problem of defending thieves?

ahuba.6430:

Caffynated.5713:

ahuba.6430:

except even if the ele doesnt have all bunker traits and bunker amulet he still outlives everybody.

Not sure if serious… but just in case:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZxzJGgox_E

a semi bunker ele can dishout 3/4 k fire 3 and 4, 4/5k fire grab, 7 k churning earth….

A “semi bunker ele” whose main stat is power, and has ~50% +crit damage (glass canon level), can deal that kind of damage using long cooldown abilities (45 seconds on fire grab) on about one in three attempts against a glass canon who invested nothing in defense.

Is that really the argument you’re going to go with? Seriously?

Seriously?

i dont think you can dismiss my arguments when your argument is a youtube video of a facepalm. maybe i exagerated on numbers(people tend to exagerate while argumenting) but even if its just 3k crit burning speed and 2k ring of fire 5 k churning earth its still too much aoe for a spec with great access to healing protective boons etc etc everything i already said.

He means that the opinion you give out is worth “Facepalm”.. Anet has decided that “Eles is a Jack of all Trade but Master of None”. No, we can’t deal as much dam as War, not as tanky as Guard, not as bursty as Thief or Mesmer , not untouchable as Ranger, not as much condition as Enginner or Necro,

ahuba.6430:

i dont think you can dismiss my arguments when your argument is a youtube video of a facepalm. maybe i exagerated on numbers(people tend to exagerate while argumenting) but even if its just 3k crit burning speed and 2k ring of fire 5 k churning earth its still too much aoe for a spec with great access to healing protective boons etc etc everything i already said.

The facepalm was in response to you saying:

except even if the ele doesnt have all bunker traits and bunker amulet he still outlives everybody.

A full bunker ele isn’t even the most survivable build in the game (3rd best point holder and 4-5 most survivable in a neutral setting), so saying that a non-bunker ele can outlive everyone is just complete nonsense.

The damage you’re claiming is not done by bunkers. It’s done by hybrid eles with close to 2k power and 50% crit damage. That’s a ton of investment in damage stats, so yes, they’re going to do a little bit of damage.

Arcane thievary on ele once you’ve burned up his cantrips. Set up stun/daze or immbo, burst, GG.

mongolianmisfit.8350:

Arcane thievary on ele once you’ve burned up his cantrips. Set up stun/daze or immbo, burst, GG.

In a 1v1 a good ele having at minimum constantly 1 cantrip ready. So I wouldn’t say GG. I mean it’s allrdy easy to dodge shatters. Not even gonna talk about competitive play (portal, illusion of life).

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Kamata.5762:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Kamata.5762:

PistolWraith.6732:

Kamata.5762:

@Ahuba,

its funny cause its not true. Your hate for Eles makes you biased. best 1v1 class lololol.

So burst damage decides the best 1v1 class? The only class which is as good in 1v1 as an elementalist is mesmer with bad mobility, bad sustain and bad aoe.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Analysis-of-Cantrips-Eles/first
Nice analysis of cantrip eles by Symbolic.

Have you ever see me say burst is best? No. Ele is clearly not the best at 1v1. It depends more on the player who is better. Hell, ive been beaten by a warrior in 1v1 once, he was not your typical 100b warrior. Ive been beaten by Eles, I have won from eles, Ive been beaten by Engineers and I have won from them, ivebeen beaten by every class in the game once and I have won from every class in the game.
Its not the class you play against that decides who is better, it is the player.

When a player push the class to the limit, the class is deciding about loosing or winning. On the same level a mesmer will never win against an ele, same with thief and guardian.

You sir, are too biased and illogical. Ofcourse a mesmer can win from an equally good ele. I have an ele friend who is much better than I am. But still, I manage to win often because he made a mistake and I took advantage of it.

You should complain less and practice more. Maybe then your QQ will stop.

I like your post. I never heard of you and if you win against an ele a 1v1 as a mesmer your friend is just meow kitten bad. I mean our guild-ele would face roll you. Second thing is, and now listen carefully: Eles are one of these classes that can even do faults and still win.

You sir should stop playing with hotjoin friends and try duels against highend ppl.

I never heard of you either so does that make you bad? No. Again. Dont make illogical assumptions like that. The keyboard warrior that you are doesnt proove anything about your guild ele, or about yourself. Ele is not the only class that can make lots of misstakes and still win.

Please tell me, how will you counter full time chaos armor on a mesmer? All my clones have retaliation + chaos armor. I will assume that you know what it does and about the glitch with protection or it was intentional I dont know.

I will still write down what it does: Chaos armor only gives you protection on trigger and not when hit, and confusion has the highest chance to trigger when hit.

Eles have lots of AOE so imagine hitting 3 clones and 1 player with chaos armor and retaliation, just imagine what that will do to an ele thats spamming his skills.

Lupanic.6502:

Yes but with an ele you can beat every opponent even as a causal player. If you play warrior you will eat dust all the time.

you read a build and a short guide, you create your very first ele and join hotjoin games. You will never be the last player at the scoretable. Maybe you do not rock in your first games, but you will not suffer hard. Same for thief.

And then go and create your very first warrior….

The first time I played a warrior in hot join, I ate everyone up with just a greatsword. It doesn’t matter what profession you are, if you’re playing against less experienced players, you’ll just outright beat them – this isn’t exclusive to thieves and eles.

Tpvp is another story… warriors do need love and bunker eles are strong, but not as strong as many players claim as the OP is trying to explain. Lots of "ELE OP’ bandwagoners who don’t actually understand what makes ele bunkering strong and blame things like “escapes”.

Kamata.5762:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Kamata.5762:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Kamata.5762:

PistolWraith.6732:

Kamata.5762:

@Ahuba,

its funny cause its not true. Your hate for Eles makes you biased. best 1v1 class lololol.

So burst damage decides the best 1v1 class? The only class which is as good in 1v1 as an elementalist is mesmer with bad mobility, bad sustain and bad aoe.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Analysis-of-Cantrips-Eles/first
Nice analysis of cantrip eles by Symbolic.

Have you ever see me say burst is best? No. Ele is clearly not the best at 1v1. It depends more on the player who is better. Hell, ive been beaten by a warrior in 1v1 once, he was not your typical 100b warrior. Ive been beaten by Eles, I have won from eles, Ive been beaten by Engineers and I have won from them, ivebeen beaten by every class in the game once and I have won from every class in the game.
Its not the class you play against that decides who is better, it is the player.

When a player push the class to the limit, the class is deciding about loosing or winning. On the same level a mesmer will never win against an ele, same with thief and guardian.

You sir, are too biased and illogical. Ofcourse a mesmer can win from an equally good ele. I have an ele friend who is much better than I am. But still, I manage to win often because he made a mistake and I took advantage of it.

You should complain less and practice more. Maybe then your QQ will stop.

I like your post. I never heard of you and if you win against an ele a 1v1 as a mesmer your friend is just meow kitten bad. I mean our guild-ele would face roll you. Second thing is, and now listen carefully: Eles are one of these classes that can even do faults and still win.

You sir should stop playing with hotjoin friends and try duels against highend ppl.

I never heard of you either so does that make you bad? No. Again. Dont make illogical assumptions like that. The keyboard warrior that you are doesnt proove anything about your guild ele, or about yourself. Ele is not the only class that can make lots of misstakes and still win.

Please tell me, how will you counter full time chaos armor on a mesmer? All my clones have retaliation + chaos armor. I will assume that you know what it does and about the glitch with protection or it was intentional I dont know.

I will still write down what it does: Chaos armor only gives you protection on trigger and not when hit, and confusion has the highest chance to trigger when hit.

Eles have lots of AOE so imagine hitting 3 clones and 1 player with chaos armor and retaliation, just imagine what that will do to an ele thats spamming his skills.

Sadly your build is not viable in a competitive environement like tournaments. Though you specced everthing for a 1v1, which this game is not based around. I doubt you even duel with portal and illusion of life.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Kamata.5762:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Kamata.5762:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Kamata.5762:

PistolWraith.6732:

Kamata.5762:

@Ahuba,

its funny cause its not true. Your hate for Eles makes you biased. best 1v1 class lololol.

So burst damage decides the best 1v1 class? The only class which is as good in 1v1 as an elementalist is mesmer with bad mobility, bad sustain and bad aoe.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Analysis-of-Cantrips-Eles/first
Nice analysis of cantrip eles by Symbolic.

Have you ever see me say burst is best? No. Ele is clearly not the best at 1v1. It depends more on the player who is better. Hell, ive been beaten by a warrior in 1v1 once, he was not your typical 100b warrior. Ive been beaten by Eles, I have won from eles, Ive been beaten by Engineers and I have won from them, ivebeen beaten by every class in the game once and I have won from every class in the game.
Its not the class you play against that decides who is better, it is the player.

When a player push the class to the limit, the class is deciding about loosing or winning. On the same level a mesmer will never win against an ele, same with thief and guardian.

You sir, are too biased and illogical. Ofcourse a mesmer can win from an equally good ele. I have an ele friend who is much better than I am. But still, I manage to win often because he made a mistake and I took advantage of it.

You should complain less and practice more. Maybe then your QQ will stop.

I like your post. I never heard of you and if you win against an ele a 1v1 as a mesmer your friend is just meow kitten bad. I mean our guild-ele would face roll you. Second thing is, and now listen carefully: Eles are one of these classes that can even do faults and still win.

You sir should stop playing with hotjoin friends and try duels against highend ppl.

I never heard of you either so does that make you bad? No. Again. Dont make illogical assumptions like that. The keyboard warrior that you are doesnt proove anything about your guild ele, or about yourself. Ele is not the only class that can make lots of misstakes and still win.

Please tell me, how will you counter full time chaos armor on a mesmer? All my clones have retaliation + chaos armor. I will assume that you know what it does and about the glitch with protection or it was intentional I dont know.

I will still write down what it does: Chaos armor only gives you protection on trigger and not when hit, and confusion has the highest chance to trigger when hit.

Eles have lots of AOE so imagine hitting 3 clones and 1 player with chaos armor and retaliation, just imagine what that will do to an ele thats spamming his skills.

Sadly your build is not viable in a competitive environement like tournaments. Though you specced everthing for a 1v1, which this game is not based around. I doubt you even duel with portal and illusion of life.

Sadly, we were talking about 1v1 and not team fights. Youre just trying to avoid to answer my question.

Ofcourse I know that this build is not viable in tournaments or something. But we were talking about 1v1 and not tournaments.

btw, lots of mesmers duel with portal since it has a good use against some classes.

Are strong ele players consistently beating HGH engineers in 1 on 1s? That’s a pretty ugly fight for eles atm. Is for me anyway.

- Armor/Toughness in this game is inconsequential.
- Eles should not have melee builds period.

Eles are good, but def not the best 1v1 class.

Apolo.5942:

- Armor/Toughness in this game is inconsequential.
- Eles should not have melee builds period.

I’m curious as to why you believe that Eles shouldn’t have melee.

And all those points together make a OP ele.

Kamata.5762:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Kamata.5762:

PistolWraith.6732:

Kamata.5762:

@Ahuba,

its funny cause its not true. Your hate for Eles makes you biased. best 1v1 class lololol.

So burst damage decides the best 1v1 class? The only class which is as good in 1v1 as an elementalist is mesmer with bad mobility, bad sustain and bad aoe.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Analysis-of-Cantrips-Eles/first
Nice analysis of cantrip eles by Symbolic.

Have you ever see me say burst is best? No. Ele is clearly not the best at 1v1. It depends more on the player who is better. Hell, ive been beaten by a warrior in 1v1 once, he was not your typical 100b warrior. Ive been beaten by Eles, I have won from eles, Ive been beaten by Engineers and I have won from them, ivebeen beaten by every class in the game once and I have won from every class in the game.
Its not the class you play against that decides who is better, it is the player.

When a player push the class to the limit, the class is deciding about loosing or winning. On the same level a mesmer will never win against an ele, same with thief and guardian.

You sir, are too biased and illogical. Ofcourse a mesmer can win from an equally good ele. I have an ele friend who is much better than I am. But still, I manage to win often because he made a mistake and I took advantage of it.

You should complain less and practice more. Maybe then your QQ will stop.

Ehm no… 1vs1 with ele as mesmer, if he’s equally skilled, ends with a dead mesmer 90% of the times, once you shattered you have pretty much no dmg to send out (And it’s really easy to evade a shatter if you know just a little how shatter combo works, so pretty much everyone who plays at a decent level) and when it comes to healing and cond removal ele is just 10 times better than mesmers, if you’re a mesmer and you see an ele coming at side for 1vs1 all you have to do is call for backup while hoping that he’s worse than you..not mentioning that if you manage to fight him somehow (And problay your point would be already neutral cause you can’t keep it with someone spamming aoes all over the point) he can just rtl away and come back full hp while you have your healing still on cd and your point still neutral, and when backup finally arrives he can just rtl away going outnumber your team somewhere else in seconds…pretty lame uh?

Asurmir.7956:

Apolo.5942:

- Armor/Toughness in this game is inconsequential.
- Eles should not have melee builds period.

I’m curious as to why you believe that Eles shouldn’t have melee.

You are right, with as little class differentiation as this game has, Eles might as well wear heavy armor as well…

Archaon.6245:

Kamata.5762:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Kamata.5762:

PistolWraith.6732:

Kamata.5762:

@Ahuba,

its funny cause its not true. Your hate for Eles makes you biased. best 1v1 class lololol.

So burst damage decides the best 1v1 class? The only class which is as good in 1v1 as an elementalist is mesmer with bad mobility, bad sustain and bad aoe.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Analysis-of-Cantrips-Eles/first
Nice analysis of cantrip eles by Symbolic.

Have you ever see me say burst is best? No. Ele is clearly not the best at 1v1. It depends more on the player who is better. Hell, ive been beaten by a warrior in 1v1 once, he was not your typical 100b warrior. Ive been beaten by Eles, I have won from eles, Ive been beaten by Engineers and I have won from them, ivebeen beaten by every class in the game once and I have won from every class in the game.
Its not the class you play against that decides who is better, it is the player.

When a player push the class to the limit, the class is deciding about loosing or winning. On the same level a mesmer will never win against an ele, same with thief and guardian.

You sir, are too biased and illogical. Ofcourse a mesmer can win from an equally good ele. I have an ele friend who is much better than I am. But still, I manage to win often because he made a mistake and I took advantage of it.

You should complain less and practice more. Maybe then your QQ will stop.

Ehm no… 1vs1 with ele as mesmer, if he’s equally skilled, ends with a dead mesmer 90% of the times, once you shattered you have pretty much no dmg to send out (And it’s really easy to evade a shatter if you know just a little how shatter combo works, so pretty much everyone who plays at a decent level) and when it comes to healing and cond removal ele is just 10 times better than mesmers, if you’re a mesmer and you see an ele coming at side for 1vs1 all you have to do is call for backup while hoping that he’s worse than you..not mentioning that if you manage to fight him somehow (And problay your point would be already neutral cause you can’t keep it with someone spamming aoes all over the point) he can just rtl away and come back full hp while you have your healing still on cd and your point still neutral, and when backup finally arrives he can just rtl away going outnumber your team somewhere else in seconds…pretty lame uh?

How about this, mesmer does his illusionary leap and does blurred frenzy, forces out a dodge, then baits the ele with Cry of Frustration for another dodge. Then gets close, dodges and uses Mirror Images for an instant 8k or whatever damage. Sure, ele goes into water, fully heals but now you kill him with your staff because you have 7+ stacks of might + 300 condition damage from traits and those conditions can’t be simply removed because of their short duration and constant reapplying. And all of this is ignoring the stupid phantasms which also need to be dodged.
Rinse and repeat.

Deathgrin.8416:

And all those points together make a OP ele.

Why people,whether just pure coincidence or on purpose that,Eles is intended Jack of All Trades but Master of None…

kaplis.7195:

Archaon.6245:

Kamata.5762:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Kamata.5762:

PistolWraith.6732:

Kamata.5762:

@Ahuba,

its funny cause its not true. Your hate for Eles makes you biased. best 1v1 class lololol.

So burst damage decides the best 1v1 class? The only class which is as good in 1v1 as an elementalist is mesmer with bad mobility, bad sustain and bad aoe.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Analysis-of-Cantrips-Eles/first
Nice analysis of cantrip eles by Symbolic.

Have you ever see me say burst is best? No. Ele is clearly not the best at 1v1. It depends more on the player who is better. Hell, ive been beaten by a warrior in 1v1 once, he was not your typical 100b warrior. Ive been beaten by Eles, I have won from eles, Ive been beaten by Engineers and I have won from them, ivebeen beaten by every class in the game once and I have won from every class in the game.
Its not the class you play against that decides who is better, it is the player.

When a player push the class to the limit, the class is deciding about loosing or winning. On the same level a mesmer will never win against an ele, same with thief and guardian.

You sir, are too biased and illogical. Ofcourse a mesmer can win from an equally good ele. I have an ele friend who is much better than I am. But still, I manage to win often because he made a mistake and I took advantage of it.

You should complain less and practice more. Maybe then your QQ will stop.

Ehm no… 1vs1 with ele as mesmer, if he’s equally skilled, ends with a dead mesmer 90% of the times, once you shattered you have pretty much no dmg to send out (And it’s really easy to evade a shatter if you know just a little how shatter combo works, so pretty much everyone who plays at a decent level) and when it comes to healing and cond removal ele is just 10 times better than mesmers, if you’re a mesmer and you see an ele coming at side for 1vs1 all you have to do is call for backup while hoping that he’s worse than you..not mentioning that if you manage to fight him somehow (And problay your point would be already neutral cause you can’t keep it with someone spamming aoes all over the point) he can just rtl away and come back full hp while you have your healing still on cd and your point still neutral, and when backup finally arrives he can just rtl away going outnumber your team somewhere else in seconds…pretty lame uh?

Sure, ele goes into water, fully heals but now you kill him with your staff because you have 7+ stacks of might + 300 condition damage from traits and those conditions can’t be simply removed because of their short duration and constant reapplying.

So you can actually kill something with your staff as mesmer? With what? Chaos storm that just needs 2 steps away from being totally useless in 1vs1 or iwarlock that shots a slow moving projectile that you can dodge all day long? Just curios about this immense staff’s power you’re talking about…because those who play mesmer know that staff is just a teamfight/survival weapon (Aka you use it just for phase retreat and chaos storm. End.) and with it you can kill nothing just a little better than “totally brain dead” level…not talking about cond dmg on shatter builds that is just worthless, even with a +300…nothing would die from cond dmg vs a shatter/phantasm mesmer…you die because of shatter or blurred frenzy, nothing else…maybe iduelist if you don’t see it coming during teamfight, but if you’re talking about 1vs1 iduelist is pretty easy to evade too…

Btw if you lose dodges because someone just baited you with ill leap without shattering you’re just bad, any decent ele won’t waste dodges just because you send leap out..

If they don’t dodge the leap,they will eat a full dam of Blurred Frenzy coming up,full dams Frenzy take like 1/3 of our Health to say the least. And if they use stun break,congratulation,he just have 1 less survival in his disposal tool

Caffynated.5713:

zone.1073:

Because when damage-dealers go all-in on them, they don’t die right away.

I’ve yet to meet a competently played bunker from any class that dies right away 1v1.

And when your whole team focuses them, they don’t die right away.

Only if your team is shockingly bad.

I’m obviously referring to Eles who trait deep into Water and Arcana (with remainders in Air and/or Earth traits), use Valkyrie’s amulet, and 1 or 2 Arcane utilities. Of course triple cantrip bunkers don’t, and should not, die right away. This isn’t about Bunkers specifically.

The trick for a phantasm mesmer like myself is to wait until he switches out of water attunement, then hit the leap->frenzy with 2-3 phantasms out. If everything times right he should be dead or almost dead, shatter if you need to finish him, and magic bullet/riposte to buy a couple more seconds for phantasm followups if you have to.

All this assumes mist form, eath armor, teleport are all on cooldown, and he’s not quick enough to rtl away. Also assumes he switched from water to fire or air, since earth gave him protection. Also a good idea to hope he switched to fire rather than air since he can just rtl away otherwide. So yeah, basically pray he swapped to the only attunement which doesn’t give him a get-out-of-jail-free card, and pray all his other “lol you can’t kill me” buttons are off cooldown.

That or just yell to your team for support.

On the plus side anyone who is complaining about eles can go ahead and roll an ele themselves. I was defending the tranquility buff vs 3 other players all the way from 400pts until victory the other day as an ele. It’s not that hard.

Stealth.9324:

If they don’t dodge the leap,they will eat a full dam of Blurred Frenzy coming up,full dams Frenzy take like 1/3 of our Health to say the least. And if they use stun break,congratulation,he just have 1 less survival in his disposal tool

so 2 more ready up…not that bad considering you also have a whole bar of low cd healing/survival skills, kd, cc, a kittenload of protective boons and so on…you used one stunbreak you poor ele, how can you fight with just everything else considering that if you used a stunbreak it means that your opponent wasted something too, and probably more than you? And maybe he doesn’t have 20 weapons skills…just saying…

Talking about tpvp eles obviously, i don’t consider those straight from hot join who blow a mistform if you just run towards them…lol…they’re just free kills for pretty much everyone, except, maybe, a warrior…

Anyone knows about Bombay TV2? You know, where you can make your own small clip? I did one.

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/v2/play.php?id=157807

Make one you too showing your Guild Wars 2 experience

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/v2/