Guild Wars 2

kito.1827:

i remember someone (karl, J & J) who has mentioned somewhere (SotG) that in one patch (march 26th) there will be somewhat (boonhate) against something (bunker ele/guard)

im wandering why everybody – even the QQ community – forgot about it.
maybe we can get a dev reply on boonhate? (feels kind of dreaming away…)

They did NOT say boon hate would be in the last patch. The way they said it, it was pretty evident it wouldn’t even.

kito.1827:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

kito.1827:

i remember someone (karl, J & J) who has mentioned somewhere (SotG) that in one patch (march 26th) there will be somewhat (boonhate) against something (bunker ele/guard)

im wandering why everybody – even the QQ community – forgot about it.
maybe we can get a dev reply on boonhate? (feels kind of dreaming away…)

Because Boon-hat for me personally has no priority and I think for A-Net too.
Second reason is because there are much bigger issues at the moment, as incentive, balance, custom-arenas, observ-mode, bigger tournaments etc. etc.

The list is endless….

i totally agree with the priority.
but don’t you think, if addressed right, boon hate could counter eles at least a little bit?
and eles are definitely an issue tbh

Boons hate would be a good way to counter Eles. I would prefer them to Boon-hate rather than nerf the Class, at least in that way, in PVE, the class won’t be affected much.

Eles is an issue to you? You are free to join in my class if you are willing to learn.

Stealth.9324:

You compare a Full GC thief with a no trait point spend Eles?How about make it simple that none of them is specced and none of them naked and compared the stats. It would be more accurate that way.

Dude, you don’t get me.
The full G/c specced Thief does have same Toughness + Health as an untraited Elementalist ( cause u run berzerker amulet and have no
+toughness / +vita in the dmg traitlines ).
As soon as the Ele starts to spend traitpoints he will have more Toughness / Health than the thief !

Stealth.9324:

Ah not really, if u are a thief and using SB, simply press Inflitrator Arrow or Shadow Step to move away and Shadow Return, or simply using ur Hide In Shadow Kill, Roll for Innitiative,etc…. And the very first reason they try to root you is either prevent you from escaping or ready for big burst.By simply moving away, you mess up their location and mess up their combo

Sure, i could spend 6 Ini to SB#5 but this requires me to have my weaponswap ready + 6 initiative.
Same for rootbreakers / stunbreakers.
They need to be off cooldown, and i must have em in my skillbar.

Elementalist does get it for free !!!!
This is what i am talking about !

Every other profession must take the utils or does have a drawback when using traits that do something like that.
Eg. Thief needs at least 10pkt in ShadowArts for Condition removal in stealth + somehow access to stealth.

When i need to shortbow, because i need to evade or eg nmy is lurking away i am locked for 10 sec without any condition removal besides
Signet of Agility ( if u have it, most unlikely ).
Or i need to use SR ( 60sec c/d ).
Talking of default specs here…

And stupid elementalist gets this kitten for free, every attumentswap … i mean come on , its not that they can trigger it by that, its more
the fact that they do not have to use their brain.
Because attunement swaps are also very short C/D !

I was playing NG for some time, now back on thief, the first games were so horrible, because i forgot about weapon swap coooldown .
It really hinders you so much, but well somehow its neccessary – but NG and Ele do have a big advantage here.

And before someone argues that we ( thief ) would have a too big advantage without C/d on weaponswap, because we do not have c/d on our abilitys.
Problem is initiative here !

Stealth.9324:

piperrak.8049:

they only require “some” melee and movement because classes like d/d ele still exist.

or do u think a trap hunter wishes to move at all? the biggest inbalance is at what rate of “skill” people get success.

Don’t know if this is the right way to interpret your post. What u means is Eles is not require much movement and can tank mobs all day long? If that is the case, you are deadly wrong. You can try to lv an Eles in PVE environment to confirm Eles surviability. If not, please simply ignore my post.

no dude, i postet this some time ago.
to play an ele, which does good damage too, u need to do a lot.
u need to know 20 weapon skills and u need to use them on point too, if u want to make a difference. u need to PLACE ur mobility and skills. for firewall u need to aim and for good damage u need to know the range. u need to deselect ur target if u need to escape with ride the bla. u are vulnerable to attacks while riding it.
against good players its difficult to use our rotation because u need a lot of skills to defend urself. i personaly dont use mistform so dunno. but a lot of mates are happy if an ele uses mistform. its mostly their last resort. i think d/d ele is a bliss and if some people grind it fulltank to oblivion its their choice its defnetly not my playstyle. but u dont have to fear those because their damage is quite managabel for every solid build.

…well my point was… just replace “skill” for effort.

This is what’s wrong with MMO forums. You get a bunch of people who don’t even understand how game mechanics work talking to each other, and then the nonsense that they talk about become “facts” to them because they have a bunch of other terribles agreeing with it.

Yes, 0 0 10 30 30 S/D Cantrip ele with cleric’s ammy is OP. It’s a little too survivable for its level of mobility and group support. The D/D version is strong, but it has more limitations, so I wouldn’t call it OP.

All this other garbage about burst and hybrid eles being OP is just terrible players who no one should take seriously.

Thanks for the explaination, piperrak.

@Ivis: Your post was too long, so to save space, I will just list a few thing here:

A full glass cannon Thief has no Toughness, I understand. A Bunker Eles has full Toughness that I do understand too. What I don’t understand is why you compare a Full Glass Cannon with an Eles that will spend point in Toughness or Vitality?At the very least, you can compare a Full Glass Cannon Thief has no Toughness and has as much as a Full Glass Cannon Eles. However, Thief has Stealth and Regen while in Stealth and ability to constant Stealth. So Thief can just Stealth and leave the battlefield. An Eles, however, a full glass cannon get into a 2 men fight is asking for a suicidal, except he is EXTREMLY skill or the Group is just bad. Skill Rewarding Player.

You say we get the Stunbreaker for free? We only get free Condition Cleanser while Attune to Water,not in every Attune Swap, in every 9s if traited and 15s normally. And no, we sacrifice a lot of DPS just for this benefit. And while in Water, we do the least Dams, and once we are out,we are locked for the next 9s or 15s.

How Attument is in short CD? Think Attunement like Weapon Swap for Eles. All the other class can have their 10s Weapon Swap WITHOUT traited plus the ability to stay at melee or Range at will. While Attunement Swap on Eles is 15s CD and to be at 9s CD, we sarcrifice 30 pts (30 pts for 1sec less than other weapon swap seem like a “fair trade” to me) and we do not have the luxury to stay at range or melee at will. Once go with D/D, melee all the way.

“The fact that they do not have to use their brain”. Now that I called quite offended to all commited Eles community here. As much as thief, one can not simply create a Eles and Boom, become good at it.

And like I said bf, if u use all your stunbreak just because you are Immobolize is not a good idea. A good player will know what is the real ready for Burst and what is bait.That is what distinguish a good player and a bad player.

I play Thief myself and I do understand how hard they are to play. In fact, thief was my very first created to 80 but since I see many people QQ about thief, I predicted that thief will get constant nerf and that’s why I roll my Eles and get hooked by it.It seems history repeat itself again. Sign…

Caffynated.5713:

This is what’s wrong with MMO forums. You get a bunch of people who don’t even understand how game mechanics work talking to each other, and then the nonsense that they talk about become “facts” to them because they have a bunch of other terribles agreeing with it.

Yes, 0 0 10 30 30 S/D Cantrip ele with cleric’s ammy is OP. It’s a little too survivable for its level of mobility and group support. The D/D version is strong, but it has more limitations, so I wouldn’t call it OP.

All this other garbage about burst and hybrid eles being OP is just terrible players who no one should take seriously.

What makes this even worse is that many of these players claim to be elite, post their rank/team in their signature and suddenly, every one of their posts becomes an irrefutable truth. Experienced players will look past the ego, but newer players visiting the forum read a boatload of misinformation from angry players and stunts their learning experience.

The blind arrogance in these forums is staggering, and the amount of exaggerated claims from frustrated players shows how these players generally rely on hearsay instead of trying/learning game mechanics first hand.

LoL. I did not know that how it going. Thanks for telling me No wonder I always feel strange how a high rank PvPer can say such misinform thing like that and I am nice enough to not think they are lying their rank…..

Cirax.9231:

Caffynated.5713:

This is what’s wrong with MMO forums. You get a bunch of people who don’t even understand how game mechanics work talking to each other, and then the nonsense that they talk about become “facts” to them because they have a bunch of other terribles agreeing with it.

Yes, 0 0 10 30 30 S/D Cantrip ele with cleric’s ammy is OP. It’s a little too survivable for its level of mobility and group support. The D/D version is strong, but it has more limitations, so I wouldn’t call it OP.

All this other garbage about burst and hybrid eles being OP is just terrible players who no one should take seriously.

What makes this even worse is that many of these players claim to be elite, post their rank/team in their signature and suddenly, every one of their posts becomes an irrefutable truth. Experienced players will look past the ego, but newer players visiting the forum read a boatload of misinformation from angry players and stunts their learning experience.

The blind arrogance in these forums is staggaring, and the amount of exaggerated claims from frustrated players shows how these players generally rely on hearsay instead of trying/learning game mechanics first hand.

I actually had a lot of fun reading this at work and seeing people claim they made an argument, when they didn’t. =D

I still fail to understand why people think 2 v 1 bunker Guardian (just an example) is ok because he specced so, while if it’s an Ele…

My main was ele and now play mostly warrior and necro. If you have issues vs eles as a necro (as some QQ was posting) I have bad news for you…

Also for those assuming a bunker ele has good damage, please show me screenshot of that. Lets say a 7k firegrab (45 sec cooldown)… if you show me this, I’ll admit Ele is OP.

Yep- rank, being on a team, having a stream link doesn’t dictate the player’s capability to think.

Here is a great representation on how real competitive players analyze builds:

!http://symbolictp.wordpress.com/2013/04/10/analysis-of-cantrips-elementalists/!

…and players who claim eles have burst, sustain, bunker, Gandalf, etc. all in one build have never actually played the profession.

kito.1827:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

kito.1827:

i remember someone (karl, J & J) who has mentioned somewhere (SotG) that in one patch (march 26th) there will be somewhat (boonhate) against something (bunker ele/guard)

im wandering why everybody – even the QQ community – forgot about it.
maybe we can get a dev reply on boonhate? (feels kind of dreaming away…)

Because Boon-hat for me personally has no priority and I think for A-Net too.
Second reason is because there are much bigger issues at the moment, as incentive, balance, custom-arenas, observ-mode, bigger tournaments etc. etc.

The list is endless….

i totally agree with the priority.
but don’t you think, if addressed right, boon hate could counter eles at least a little bit?
and eles are definitely an issue tbh

Actually i prefer to balance a class rather than just give options to counter them.

At this point, after the subtle nerfs that they’ve seen, I think that the reason why they’re OP is a combination of their absurdly high mobility, tankiness and ability to deal burst damage at the same level as a zerkers ele with a valk ammy/zerk jewel. Their AoE healing is pretty kittening strong still too. Oh, and they have AoE protection on demand, one of the most underrated things that an ele has. I guess their 3 stun breaks are pretty good too. Lightning flash is amazing as well. And I suppose their blast finishers. Their CC is pretty good too I guess.

They don’t deal as much damage overall as you might think. Ok, I take that back, I’ve been hit for 6k firegrabs by eles in valk ammys. They’re good at everything.

To all the angry posters :P
Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t this topic posted in the pvp forum asking people why they think ele is OP.

If the post was ment for the eyes of other ele players, it would have (should have?) been posted elsewhere.
Even if some of the arguments are not valid, they are posted as a reply to why people think ele is OP. (Note the Wording: ‘think Eles is Op’ . It’s not: ’know for a fact Eles is Op’.

If anything constructive is to come of this topic, I guess it would be to explain why x poster is wrong about x assumption about elementalists.
Sadly these topics about X class being op tend to end up in people aggressivly attacking or defending their believes rather than listening to one another :P
(but good entertainment for the rest of us.)

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

kito.1827:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

kito.1827:

i remember someone (karl, J & J) who has mentioned somewhere (SotG) that in one patch (march 26th) there will be somewhat (boonhate) against something (bunker ele/guard)

im wandering why everybody – even the QQ community – forgot about it.
maybe we can get a dev reply on boonhate? (feels kind of dreaming away…)

Because Boon-hat for me personally has no priority and I think for A-Net too.
Second reason is because there are much bigger issues at the moment, as incentive, balance, custom-arenas, observ-mode, bigger tournaments etc. etc.

The list is endless….

i totally agree with the priority.
but don’t you think, if addressed right, boon hate could counter eles at least a little bit?
and eles are definitely an issue tbh

Actually i prefer to balance a class rather than just give options to counter them.

Actually i prefer to balance a class rather than just give options to counter them.

That says it all. Here it is people, a competitive player that prefers to have a class adjusted instead of adapting.

I am all for nerfing Ele, because I bet you that the larger part of the Eles will adapt and people will still have something to cry about.

By the way I also saw a rank 50+ clicking their abilities with the mouse…

kito.1827:

don’t you think, if addressed right, boon hate could counter eles at least a little bit?
and eles are definitely an issue tbh

im really curious how it will work and what exactly will it be if it will be done right, it will balance eles and guardian bunkers, which relies a lot on boons

PS: no nerfs to ele without a buffs

Ostricheggs.3742:

ability to deal burst damage at the same level as a zerkers ele with a valk ammy/zerk jewel.

The potential damage is the same between valk/zerk because the power and crit damage are the same on those amulets. Where they’re different is in precision and the likelihood that those high numbers actually pop up. Valk is going to crit 1 in 3 attacks, and zerk with crit on 2 in 3 (both with fury)

The choice between zerk/valk is ~22% average DPS vs ~22% damage mitigation from toughness, and 284 vitality or healing.

Oh, and they have AoE protection on demand, one of the most underrated things that an ele has.

Who underrates Elemental Attunement? A poll on the ele forums rated it as the most important trait/ability that the class has no matter what spec you’re running.

Relax ele players relax..the worst thing is that they destroy the 0/x/x/30/30 build and we wait a month before the rest of the community realises eles are garbage besides that and then they start buffing..
Unfortunatly now situation is tough and you see people even high on leaderboards demanding things that are utterly stupid and could really break the class..
Point is that ele atually NEEDS BUFFS and a lot of em..But imagine what would happen ifd they started buffing right now with the dominane of cantrips ele meta.
People would head over anets offices with their torches :P

They don’t deal as much damage overall as you might think. Ok, I take that back, I’ve been hit for 6k firegrabs by eles in valk ammys. They’re good at everything.

You mistake 20 air builds like phantarams with the cantrips ele :P
Cantrips ele even on valkyies needs 20+ stack of might and multipliers to crit for that much firegrab on a rabid using engie.Just saying..You are right they can do everything but you seem to mix clerics cantrips ele,valkyries cantrips ele and valkyries with arcanes there..Plus no prot or regen at all pretty much means 13 k =13k hp.
But the aoe component could go i guess.
Just saying what i know here and nothing more

Stealth.9324:

Hello, ladies and Gentlemen. This post here I created to discuss why people think Eles is Op. I main an Eles, I will try to be not biased as possible to break down why in my opnion Eles is good but no way near Op.

I heard a lot of people saying Eles is so good at Mobility and being Godly at Healing Power,Dealing so much Dam, Control too much,etc..etc…I will break down why Eles class need all these.

Being an Eles, a class that has LOWEST Hp Pool as well as LOWEST Toughness, plus being FORCED into MELEE, how can we stand a chance with all other melee class?We have no Stealth Ability like Thief, No Tanky as Guard or War, No making clone ability as Mesmer, No KB control as Engineer, No Pet protection as Ranger,No Second Health Pool as Necro,so again, how do we survive? Anet has done a good job to come up with a solution, MOBILITY. The reason why we are so good at Mobility is because we NEED it.With all the reason I have stated, I don’t think Good mobility,not OP, is too much to ask for. And I think the only good Mobility we have is Ride The Lightning as people marked GODLY. Please take note that while in the FULL duration of RTL, we are NOT able to use any skill AT ALL, and can be Immobilized, and taking Dam as normal.

Eles is so kitten good at Healing Power, I agree. Why is that? Because we Spec for it!!! With 30 in Water that give +300 Healing Power, I believe that makes sense. Question to all QQer, why not try to give 30 in ur Healing Trait, I believe u will heal as much as us, or maybe even better. And why do we have 30 pts in Water Trait?It not like we want to but because we have to. Except for Air, Water,Arcana, ALL our other trait is useless, or Require to be in ONE attunement to get Effective. I know that u guys all know that Eles is a Jack of all Trade, so sitting in ONE Attunment is asking for a Deathwish. Being Lowest Health Pool among all + Lowest Toughness, Healing is the only way we can survive plus Good Mobility. We can;t take extreme Hit like Guard or War,All our Def comes from Active Dodge and Healing. I would be Happy to be LESS Healing If ANET agree to give Eles SAME Toughness and HP Pool as Other Class.

Did I forget to Mention we CAN’T Swap Weapon as other Class, and choosing D/D forced to be in Melee FOREVER? Oh pls don’t mention with Focus or Scepter, they are just so NOT VIABLE.

kitten Cantri kitten o OP!!!" With all our Utilities being so Crap. (Arcane Speel deal Kitten Dam, Conjure Weapon block all our Skill and if u want to get access, u have to give up the Weapon, Pet is so Squishy, Signet is just Ah….) So CAntrip is The Only Way to go. Less Cantrip using is always what I WISH for, but if all our other skill being just as Good As Cantrip, I am Happy to do so.

“Mistform”, Free Godly Escape Card.. By using Mist Form, we are Unable to use any of our skill. Unlike Endure Pain like War or Shield Bubble like Guard, Blurred Frenzy as Mesmer,etc.. If u see us using Misform, why not give urself a 3s Break since you know we are UNABLE to do anything?

“Deal too much DPS”, I belive the only Trait we have access to which give us Power is Arcane Swap and 2% Extra Dam Per Boons in Water Trait, Furry on Air 1. Might? Yeah, we are already Low on Power, Might does not give us much extra Dams. 2% Extra Dams per Boon, on other class, they have +10% Dam OUTRIGHT, to be Equal to that Trait, we have to Stack up to 5 Boons, and yeah I agree that Eles is Good at Stacking Boon. However, I don’t think we will NEVER be able to get more than 6 Boons. +12% Extra Dam on an already LOW Dam, is not a big deal either. Just like 12% of 100 is not as much as 10% of 1000, anyway, you got what I mean. Furry which give you 20% Crit Chance, and Crit Chance give u access to Crit Dams. I hardly see any Eles Specs 30 into Air, or Use Runes that give a lot of Precision (Runes of Eagle for Exps). So as 0/10/0/30/30, assume I use Runes of Eagle, which give me 25-30% of Crit Chance. Crit Dams is decided by Power.Again 30% Crit Dam of 1000 Power is not as hard as 30% Crit Dam of 2000 Power.

I believe this is not all the Reason why people think Eles is so OP atm, the list will keep going on and on. I will leave that to all other who come to read it.

P/S: This is a Constructive Post, for those who are Rock Headed, No Brain, Close Mind, Trolling,etc… This post is not the place for you. Please find your approriate somewhere else. Sorry for my Bad English

You got me at “Gentlemen”

kostbabis.8791:

Relax ele players relax..the worst thing is that they destroy the 0/x/x/30/30 build and we wait a month before the rest of the community realises eles are garbage besides that and then they start buffing..
Unfortunatly now situation is tough and you see people even high on leaderboards demanding things that are utterly stupid and could really break the class..
Point is that ele atually NEEDS BUFFS and a lot of em..But imagine what would happen ifd they started buffing right now with the dominane of cantrips ele meta.
People would head over anets offices with their torches :P

They don’t deal as much damage overall as you might think. Ok, I take that back, I’ve been hit for 6k firegrabs by eles in valk ammys. They’re good at everything.

You mistake 20 air builds like phantarams with the cantrips ele :P
Cantrips ele even on valkyies needs 20+ stack of might and multipliers to crit for that much firegrab on a rabid using engie.Just saying..You are right they can do everything but you seem to mix clerics cantrips ele,valkyries cantrips ele and valkyries with arcanes there..Plus no prot or regen at all pretty much means 13 k =13k hp.
But the aoe component could go i guess.
Just saying what i know here and nothing more

They could buff high fire/air traits (or even low fire). That wouldn’t affect the bunkers people complain about. Then again, 30/25/5/0/10 is actually a rather strong build as well. It’s the build I ran before I took a break from the game, came back and scored 400 points in one of my first games with it.

Caffynated.5713:

Ostricheggs.3742:

ability to deal burst damage at the same level as a zerkers ele with a valk ammy/zerk jewel.

The potential damage is the same between valk/zerk because the power and crit damage are the same on those amulets. Where they’re different is in precision and the likelihood that those high numbers actually pop up. Valk is going to crit 1 in 3 attacks, and zerk with crit on 2 in 3 (both with fury)

The choice between zerk/valk is ~22% average DPS vs ~22% damage mitigation from toughness, and 284 vitality or healing.

Oh, and they have AoE protection on demand, one of the most underrated things that an ele has.

Who underrates Elemental Attunement? A poll on the ele forums rated it as the most important trait/ability that the class has no matter what spec you’re running.

But the idea with valks is that if they get decently lucky and crit on their certain abilities they’ll do as much damage as zerkers.

I seriously dislike it, but I know the overall damage is lower. It’s just that when you get crit 3 firegrabs in a row it can get slightly frustrating because it’s a sacrifice that doesn’t seem to sacrifice anything given you’re lucky enough.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Caffynated.5713:

Ostricheggs.3742:

ability to deal burst damage at the same level as a zerkers ele with a valk ammy/zerk jewel.

The potential damage is the same between valk/zerk because the power and crit damage are the same on those amulets. Where they’re different is in precision and the likelihood that those high numbers actually pop up. Valk is going to crit 1 in 3 attacks, and zerk with crit on 2 in 3 (both with fury)

The choice between zerk/valk is ~22% average DPS vs ~22% damage mitigation from toughness, and 284 vitality or healing.

Oh, and they have AoE protection on demand, one of the most underrated things that an ele has.

Who underrates Elemental Attunement? A poll on the ele forums rated it as the most important trait/ability that the class has no matter what spec you’re running.

But the idea with valks is that if they get decently lucky and crit on their certain abilities they’ll do as much damage as zerkers.

I seriously dislike it, but I know the overall damage is lower. It’s just that when you get crit 3 firegrabs in a row it can get slightly frustrating because it’s a sacrifice that doesn’t seem to sacrifice anything given you’re lucky enough.

You make it sound as critting 3 firegrabs is the same as critting 3 heartseekers. Firegrab is on 45 sec cooldown and easily misses against a well moving opponent.

Ostricheggs.3742:

But the idea with valks is that if they get decently lucky and crit on their certain abilities they’ll do as much damage as zerkers.

I seriously dislike it, but I know the overall damage is lower. It’s just that when you get crit 3 firegrabs in a row it can get slightly frustrating because it’s a sacrifice that doesn’t seem to sacrifice anything given you’re lucky enough.

You’re talking about a lot of luck there.

0 20 0 20 30 valk/zerk 6x divinity has 20%(40%) crit chance.
0 20 0 20 30 zerk/zerk 6x divinity has 47%(67%) crit chance.

The valk ele has a 6.4% chance to get 3 crits in a row vs. the zerk ele’s 30.1% chance. Being 370% more likely to achieve the desired result is not a small difference.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Caffynated.5713:

Ostricheggs.3742:

ability to deal burst damage at the same level as a zerkers ele with a valk ammy/zerk jewel.

The potential damage is the same between valk/zerk because the power and crit damage are the same on those amulets. Where they’re different is in precision and the likelihood that those high numbers actually pop up. Valk is going to crit 1 in 3 attacks, and zerk with crit on 2 in 3 (both with fury)

The choice between zerk/valk is ~22% average DPS vs ~22% damage mitigation from toughness, and 284 vitality or healing.

Oh, and they have AoE protection on demand, one of the most underrated things that an ele has.

Who underrates Elemental Attunement? A poll on the ele forums rated it as the most important trait/ability that the class has no matter what spec you’re running.

But the idea with valks is that if they get decently lucky and crit on their certain abilities they’ll do as much damage as zerkers.

I seriously dislike it, but I know the overall damage is lower. It’s just that when you get crit 3 firegrabs in a row it can get slightly frustrating because it’s a sacrifice that doesn’t seem to sacrifice anything given you’re lucky enough.

Thanks for joining us Ostrich,I have seen your e-sport clip with Engineer.It is good.

Back to the topic: Fire Grab right now has very unreliable hit box.With moving target,it miss 50/50 to me. Whether I am bad or the skill just being so unreliable. If I am just bad,again skill reward good players. Land it to connect already hard, but make it Crit 3 times in a row is extremely lucky.And 7k Crit Fire Grab, I am sure the else Ida Berzerker build. 3 fire grap with the interval of 45s cool down each, in total of 135 s = 2 mins +. You are a good engine with might stacking build,able to keep 25 stack of might all the time, grenade kit give you access to a lot of condition.While in Eles case, he has no toughness and 10 k health.Let say he is able to clean your condition,no way he would survive with 25 stack of might grenade coming at him,not to mention his heal power is not that great either. if he did manage to survive in 2 mins against any Engineer eith berzerk build,he MUST BE extreme Skill, I mean way over extreme. And again, victory reward to skill player.

cheer

Archaon.6245:

Stealth.9324:

please provide ONE name that is a competitive player (20+) and I will ask directly that person.

Phantaram.4816

Thank you.I will up a duel with him tonight.

op=/=impossible to beat

I don’t think elementalist as whole is broken, it’s just the water/arcane being so awefully strong with cantrips and the boon uptime.
The tankyness combined with the amount of stunbreakers and mobility with still decent dmg(thanks to might+fury mainly) is just abit over the top
Tl;dr: standard bunker ele being to much jack of all trades master of all(abit exaggerated)

I think spreading out the condition removals and stun breakers among other utilities and traits would be a good start to rebalance ele.

I kinda feel sad for eles since this build feels very brain dead to me (same with the hgh nade build for engis)

I wish I don’t have to be forced to go bunker there are more viable build out there for all of class. Plus the conquest mode is not the only mode we have in PvP. Rightnow, Conquest mode is the only thing we have and it promotes bunker build,roamed.And since we only have one viable build and good at it, we suddenly being marked as OP. If we have Deathmatch,where everyone just kill each other for point, I believe Eles will be sure marked as UP class or in some extreme case, NOOB class..

Varonth.5830:

Thesilentflute.8761:

It is because as with many other classes their base dmg is higher than other classes and that combined with the broken scaling of bunker stats make a super high dmg tank. other classes that show the same are trap rangers, minion/well necro, thief, engi and mesmer.

Most if not all the issues are because of the broken scaling of bunker stats, its the reason people run around in a huge ball in wvw cause aoe doesn’t melt them its the reason that you see 5 bunker builds in tpvp it all equates to: The base defensive stats do not = the base offensive stats!!!

this can be fixed 2 ways

A. nerf the benefit of bunker stats

B. re-ajust base dmg for every skill in the game.

Yes bunkerstats are a problem. I testwise ran a 3.6k armor warrior with 22k health and turtles defense for additional 200 toughness when crippled, chilled or immobilized.
A mesmer burst was really weak against those 3.8k armor while immobilized. It just took 11k…

If anything toughness too weak at the moment. What bunker builds have in common is alot of passive regen (often 2 different kind of regen at the same time), alot, and I mean alot, of small 1~1.5k heals, alot of condi removals (hell and even they struggle against HGH condi engi, which is kinda sad isn’t it) and alot of vigor/prot uptime, and either high stability uptime or alot of stunbreaks.
They also have alot of CC, especially knockbacks, to push people off points.

If all else fails, they also have some invul tools.

If the stats would be the problem, then almost any class in the game could get an clerics amulet and become unkillable. I give you a hint: this is not the case.

You seem to have missed my point.. but ill humor you. That same 11k for you is 19+ for me insta-down if I am hit with all 3 clones. Now the mind wrack combo is one of the strongest abilities in the game along with the thieves combo so you can take 2 without a heal and 3 with and you think its too weak really? you should try having dodge attacks. Now for what i have written war was not listed in my examples but I am sure 1k blades has good base dmg. Next time read over what your are arguing with a few times so you might understand it.

Edit: There are classes that are un-killable one on one like bunker eng, and bunker thief,. Even further there are class combos that are un-killable like any bunker that has knockbacks with a stealth class or multiple bunker guards as stealth and bubbles both give free rezes ie it takes 2-3 to burn one bunker or 2 to burn the dps fast enough to live through the fight(win the dps race) then comes the stealth or bubble rez so to win the fight it now takes 4/5 players assuming they only have one free res. So if you go after the bunker you lose the dps race if you go after the dps you lose the dps race as dps.

Elementalists are not OP really, they just are more finished then the rest of the classes.

All classes need access to all the boons in some way.

Daecollo.9578:

Elementalists are not OP really, they just are more finished then the rest of the classes.

All classes need access to all the boons in some way.

“They’re not OP.. they’re just op. "

zone.1073:

Daecollo.9578:

Elementalists are not OP really, they just are more finished then the rest of the classes.

All classes need access to all the boons in some way.

“They’re not OP.. they’re just op. "

Please don’t post if u have nothing else constructive opinion.

When something is broken fix it, the only people defending Ele’s are Ele’s. But yet allot of Ele’s agree that there still to strong in some areas.

Try playing classes that have been weak from day dot. Requires allot of skill not just a build.

Sol.4310:

When something is broken fix it, the only people defending Ele’s are Ele’s. But yet allot of Ele’s agree that there still to strong in some areas.

Try playing classes that have been weak from day dot. Requires allot of skill not just a build.

You are not wrong for say thing that.However, if you NEVER EVER. try to play the class, you lose all your credibility for judging a class. Just like you complain about GW2 is a crappy game without playing it while it is not?

Note: Was Eles considered UP since beta???

When something is not broken don’t fix it.If you want to soften it,please make sure you reinforce other Areas.

lvis.3824:

Stealth.9324:

You compare a Full GC thief with a no trait point spend Eles?How about make it simple that none of them is specced and none of them naked and compared the stats. It would be more accurate that way.

Dude, you don’t get me.
The full G/c specced Thief does have same Toughness + Health as an untraited Elementalist ( cause u run berzerker amulet and have no
+toughness / +vita in the dmg traitlines ).
As soon as the Ele starts to spend traitpoints he will have more Toughness / Health than the thief !

Stealth.9324:

Ah not really, if u are a thief and using SB, simply press Inflitrator Arrow or Shadow Step to move away and Shadow Return, or simply using ur Hide In Shadow Kill, Roll for Innitiative,etc…. And the very first reason they try to root you is either prevent you from escaping or ready for big burst.By simply moving away, you mess up their location and mess up their combo

Sure, i could spend 6 Ini to SB#5 but this requires me to have my weaponswap ready + 6 initiative.
Same for rootbreakers / stunbreakers.
They need to be off cooldown, and i must have em in my skillbar.

Elementalist does get it for free !!!!
This is what i am talking about !

Every other profession must take the utils or does have a drawback when using traits that do something like that.
Eg. Thief needs at least 10pkt in ShadowArts for Condition removal in stealth + somehow access to stealth.

When i need to shortbow, because i need to evade or eg nmy is lurking away i am locked for 10 sec without any condition removal besides
Signet of Agility ( if u have it, most unlikely ).
Or i need to use SR ( 60sec c/d ).
Talking of default specs here…

And stupid elementalist gets this kitten for free, every attumentswap … i mean come on , its not that they can trigger it by that, its more
the fact that they do not have to use their brain.
Because attunement swaps are also very short C/D !

I was playing NG for some time, now back on thief, the first games were so horrible, because i forgot about weapon swap coooldown .
It really hinders you so much, but well somehow its neccessary – but NG and Ele do have a big advantage here.

And before someone argues that we ( thief ) would have a too big advantage without C/d on weaponswap, because we do not have c/d on our abilitys.
Problem is initiative here !

Where do we get a free stunbreak? NOWHERE
Where do we get a free condition removal? NOWHERE. Just like you need to trait for it with 10 in Shadow’s Embrace, we need to trait with it with 10 in water. You saying we get it for free shows how little you know about our class…

Ostricheggs.3742:

At this point, after the subtle nerfs that they’ve seen, I think that the reason why they’re OP is a combination of their absurdly high mobility, tankiness and ability to deal burst damage at the same level as a zerkers ele with a valk ammy/zerk jewel. Their AoE healing is pretty kittening strong still too. Oh, and they have AoE protection on demand, one of the most underrated things that an ele has. I guess their 3 stun breaks are pretty good too. Lightning flash is amazing as well. And I suppose their blast finishers. Their CC is pretty good too I guess.

They don’t deal as much damage overall as you might think. Ok, I take that back, I’ve been hit for 6k firegrabs by eles in valk ammys. They’re good at everything.

Fire Grab is so hard to hit though, that I think we can let it crit for 6k.

vinceftw.5086:

Where do we get a free stunbreak? NOWHERE
Where do we get a free condition removal? NOWHERE. Just like you need to trait for it with 10 in Shadow’s Embrace, we need to trait with it with 10 in water. You saying we get it for free shows how little you know about our class…

Which class in the game can field 3 stun breaker utilities and get at the same time awesome condition removal in the process? All that in a package where you only need a single trait to reduce all 3 of your utilities CD by 20%.

stof.9341:

vinceftw.5086:

Where do we get a free stunbreak? NOWHERE
Where do we get a free condition removal? NOWHERE. Just like you need to trait for it with 10 in Shadow’s Embrace, we need to trait with it with 10 in water. You saying we get it for free shows how little you know about our class…

Which class in the game can field 3 stun breaker utilities and get at the same time awesome condition removal in the process? All that in a package where you only need a single trait to reduce all 3 of your utilities CD by 20%.

I’d say shouts on guardian, though you have only 2 stunbreakers. But guardians aren’t able to stack might that good with doing dmg in the meantime, also they lack of an escape mechanic. So here you go.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

I’d say shouts on guardian, though you have only 2 stunbreakers. But guardians aren’t able to stack might that good with doing dmg in the meantime, also they lack of an escape mechanic. So here you go.

And consider that two of the Elementalist cantrips are an escape mechanic by themselves.

Stealth.9324:

Sol.4310:

When something is broken fix it, the only people defending Ele’s are Ele’s. But yet allot of Ele’s agree that there still to strong in some areas.

Try playing classes that have been weak from day dot. Requires allot of skill not just a build.

You are not wrong for say thing that.However, if you NEVER EVER. try to play the class, you lose all your credibility for judging a class. Just like you complain about GW2 is a crappy game without playing it while it is not?

Note: Was Eles considered UP since beta???

When something is not broken don’t fix it.If you want to soften it,please make sure you reinforce other Areas.

A guildmate used to play ranger, mesmer, guardian and something else (You can ask him, ign. Nick Blink) one day he made an ele and now he plays cleric or valkirye ele only since he made it months ago…. “His last words on ts about his new class were lol i can go 1vs1 with everyone with almost no worries and keep up even vs 2 even killing someone maybe, no reason to go back to my other classes…all you need is here, once you know how to play it just a bit you can do whatever you want” Strange thing is that ppl who usually rolled other classes if they try an ele, once they get used to it, they never go back…..never heard a warrior (Or even a so “god mode” mesmer) saying “I’m not leaving this class because it’s so facerolling compared to others” Did you? I main mesmer but i don’t play mesmer only, because in many situations another class can do the job better than a mesmer….eles just play ele until they eventually get bored, they don’t need to reroll something else in order to keep up with new metas, they can do pretty much everything already….master of none? I’d rather say master of pretty much everything if they want to.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

stof.9341:

vinceftw.5086:

Where do we get a free stunbreak? NOWHERE
Where do we get a free condition removal? NOWHERE. Just like you need to trait for it with 10 in Shadow’s Embrace, we need to trait with it with 10 in water. You saying we get it for free shows how little you know about our class…

Which class in the game can field 3 stun breaker utilities and get at the same time awesome condition removal in the process? All that in a package where you only need a single trait to reduce all 3 of your utilities CD by 20%.

I’d say shouts on guardian, though you have only 2 stunbreakers. But guardians aren’t able to stack might that good with doing dmg in the meantime, also they lack of an escape mechanic. So here you go.

Hitting battle of kyhlo’s barrels (The only thing you can actually kill as a shout guardian) for <200 dmg autoattack btw…

Archaon.6245:

Stealth.9324:

Sol.4310:

When something is broken fix it, the only people defending Ele’s are Ele’s. But yet allot of Ele’s agree that there still to strong in some areas.

Try playing classes that have been weak from day dot. Requires allot of skill not just a build.

You are not wrong for say thing that.However, if you NEVER EVER. try to play the class, you lose all your credibility for judging a class. Just like you complain about GW2 is a crappy game without playing it while it is not?

Note: Was Eles considered UP since beta???

When something is not broken don’t fix it.If you want to soften it,please make sure you reinforce other Areas.

A guildmate used to play ranger, mesmer, guardian and something else (You can ask him, ign. Nick Blink) one day he made an ele and now he plays cleric or valkirye ele only since he made it months ago…. “His last words on ts about his new class were lol i can go 1vs1 with everyone with almost no worries and keep up even vs 2 even killing someone maybe, no reason to go back to my other classes…all you need is here, once you know how to play it just a bit you can do whatever you want” Strange thing is that ppl who usually rolled other classes if they try an ele, once they get used to it, they never go back…..never heard a warrior (Or even a so “god mode” mesmer) saying “I’m not leaving this class because it’s so facerolling compared to others” Did you? I main mesmer but i don’t play mesmer only, because in many situations another class can do the job better than a mesmer….eles just play ele until they eventually get bored, they don’t need to reroll something else in order to keep up with new metas, they can do pretty much everything already….master of none? I’d rather say master of pretty much everything if they want to.

Thanks for sharing the story of your Guildmates. There are a few thing I would like to point out in that story. First, your friend has been played a lot of other class bf he roll to an Eles. That means he has a good understanding of how class work, their combo, their weakness,etc.. in PVP. Now let me ask you how many people out there complain about Eles being OP actually playing ELES? I believe you have your answer. Second, he got the hand of Eles, good for him. Eles is not an easy class to play but on the hand of a Skilled Player, it is deadly. That is more of the issue Victory rewards skill play. If they are skilled, they deserve the reward. I see no problem to it? And I would say the same for all other class. “once you know how to play it” is what I want to emphazie it, and “a bit” depend on people it could means different. “A bit” according to a Pro player is not the same as “a bit” according to a Bad Player." because in many situations another class can do the job better than a mesmer." Ofc, that is why we have many different class to play. You can not expect Eles as tanky as Guard, Mesmer as Bursty as War, do you? It is like to say, in many situation, other class can do the job better than Eles.

My opinion is still the same. Let’s assume Eles is the master of All, why I still see all other class running around? If Eles sure is the master of All like you claim, I would not see people arguing. Why not just simply roll one and get done with it? And that simply not the case.

Stealth.9324:

My opinion is still the same. Let’s assume Eles is the master of All, why I still see all other class running around? If Eles sure is the master of All like you claim, I would not see people arguing. Why not just simply roll one and get done with it? And that simply not the case.

You mean 3 eles teams? On our side we don’t run with 2 eles just because we have only one for our team…otherwise we would take 2 for sure, like most of other teams actually do. Btw i personally hate ele and ranger class and i never wanted to make one to play…and i won’t, no matter if one class is op or not…if i don’t like it i’m not gonna play it. I just make one, try it for some time just to learn animations and skill effects\rotation and then delete it forever, as i did with ele and ranger too…and as far as i saw dps eles (Tested it because was the first build i found and weapon skills are always the same for almost every spec) are way far from being free kills like someone still claims. And don’t think an ele has all this incredible skill cap, many got used to it after a few days (At least enough to play it at a decent level in tpvp) i just tested it in hotzerg for let’s say 1 hour or so but i got 150+ while not dieing that much (Not bad for a totally new class with a soooo high skill cap)…it’s all about skill rotation, you try it a couple of times vs golems and stuff till you get used to keys then you can go and already stomp someone and you have lots of ways to get out from a bad situation too…try to jump into a midfight with a mesmer or thief after some days of practice, see what happens, see if you can avoid death so easily…or do you really think stealth or clones can save you when there are aoe and conditions flying everywhere and you have just one…and i mean ONE healing skill (And no invulnerability on thief, and no condition removal on mesmer) to use and after that you’re kittened?

stof.9341:

vinceftw.5086:

Where do we get a free stunbreak? NOWHERE
Where do we get a free condition removal? NOWHERE. Just like you need to trait for it with 10 in Shadow’s Embrace, we need to trait with it with 10 in water. You saying we get it for free shows how little you know about our class…

Which class in the game can field 3 stun breaker utilities and get at the same time awesome condition removal in the process? All that in a package where you only need a single trait to reduce all 3 of your utilities CD by 20%.

I’m not denying cantrips are great utilities and that we have tons of condition removal. I was saying that your statement of getting it for free without any traits whatsoever isn’t right. Oh, and the deception skills on thief are pretty good themselves too.

vinceftw.5086:

Ostricheggs.3742:

At this point, after the subtle nerfs that they’ve seen, I think that the reason why they’re OP is a combination of their absurdly high mobility, tankiness and ability to deal burst damage at the same level as a zerkers ele with a valk ammy/zerk jewel. Their AoE healing is pretty kittening strong still too. Oh, and they have AoE protection on demand, one of the most underrated things that an ele has. I guess their 3 stun breaks are pretty good too. Lightning flash is amazing as well. And I suppose their blast finishers. Their CC is pretty good too I guess.

They don’t deal as much damage overall as you might think. Ok, I take that back, I’ve been hit for 6k firegrabs by eles in valk ammys. They’re good at everything.

Fire Grab is so hard to hit though, that I think we can let it crit for 6k.

Yea, firegrab can be hard to hit. So can blowtorch in the exact same way. Really good eles land it a good 75% of the time. It can be fickle, I know.

But the point of my original post with regards to valk ammys is that the stat distribution ends up so that they do as much damage as zerkers WHEN they crit. Their lack of crit is made up for by their access to fury which is equal to 400 precision. I know it’s total RNG, but when the stars align and a calf is slaughtered in sacrifice to the RNG gods they literally do as much damage as zerkers.

That’s what I don’t like. It’s more of a problem with valk ammys than eles TBH. Again, I KNOW that they have much much less crit than zerkers, but tell that to the guy who just got crit twice in a row.

Ostricheggs.3742:

vinceftw.5086:

Ostricheggs.3742:

At this point, after the subtle nerfs that they’ve seen, I think that the reason why they’re OP is a combination of their absurdly high mobility, tankiness and ability to deal burst damage at the same level as a zerkers ele with a valk ammy/zerk jewel. Their AoE healing is pretty kittening strong still too. Oh, and they have AoE protection on demand, one of the most underrated things that an ele has. I guess their 3 stun breaks are pretty good too. Lightning flash is amazing as well. And I suppose their blast finishers. Their CC is pretty good too I guess.

They don’t deal as much damage overall as you might think. Ok, I take that back, I’ve been hit for 6k firegrabs by eles in valk ammys. They’re good at everything.

Fire Grab is so hard to hit though, that I think we can let it crit for 6k.

Yea, firegrab can be hard to hit. So can blowtorch in the exact same way. Really good eles land it a good 75% of the time. It can be fickle, I know.

But the point of my original post with regards to valk ammys is that the stat distribution ends up so that they do as much damage as zerkers WHEN they crit. Their lack of crit is made up for by their access to fury which is equal to 400 precision. I know it’s total RNG, but when the stars align and a calf is slaughtered in sacrifice to the RNG gods they literally do as much damage as zerkers.

That’s what I don’t like. It’s more of a problem with valk ammys than eles TBH. Again, I KNOW that they have much much less crit than zerkers, but tell that to the guy who just got crit twice in a row.

Yeah I understand but that’s the same for thieves for example. I’ve hit for 5k, 5k, 6k, dead on my thief and the other time my hits don’t crit and it’s barely 6k in total. Criticals are supposed to do this.

vinceftw.5086:

Ostricheggs.3742:

vinceftw.5086:

Ostricheggs.3742:

At this point, after the subtle nerfs that they’ve seen, I think that the reason why they’re OP is a combination of their absurdly high mobility, tankiness and ability to deal burst damage at the same level as a zerkers ele with a valk ammy/zerk jewel. Their AoE healing is pretty kittening strong still too. Oh, and they have AoE protection on demand, one of the most underrated things that an ele has. I guess their 3 stun breaks are pretty good too. Lightning flash is amazing as well. And I suppose their blast finishers. Their CC is pretty good too I guess.

They don’t deal as much damage overall as you might think. Ok, I take that back, I’ve been hit for 6k firegrabs by eles in valk ammys. They’re good at everything.

Fire Grab is so hard to hit though, that I think we can let it crit for 6k.

Yea, firegrab can be hard to hit. So can blowtorch in the exact same way. Really good eles land it a good 75% of the time. It can be fickle, I know.

But the point of my original post with regards to valk ammys is that the stat distribution ends up so that they do as much damage as zerkers WHEN they crit. Their lack of crit is made up for by their access to fury which is equal to 400 precision. I know it’s total RNG, but when the stars align and a calf is slaughtered in sacrifice to the RNG gods they literally do as much damage as zerkers.

That’s what I don’t like. It’s more of a problem with valk ammys than eles TBH. Again, I KNOW that they have much much less crit than zerkers, but tell that to the guy who just got crit twice in a row.

Yeah I understand but that’s the same for thieves for example. I’ve hit for 5k, 5k, 6k, dead on my thief and the other time my hits don’t crit and it’s barely 6k in total. Criticals are supposed to do this.

I also know that, but the RNG becomes exaggerated with valk ammys and the fact that eles get a very hefty access to fury which equates to 400 precision. On top of it they receive toughness which scales very, VERY well with their healing.

So not only do they have the opportunity to deal burst damage like a zerkers, they get additional stats that stack extremely well in their main build.

Honestly it’s just an extremely well designed build. The weakness created by a lack of crit is made up for in fury giving them the ability to sustain far longer. They sacrifice readily availabe burst and depend on complete RNG to down people over the long run. Again, that’s my problem with valk on eles. It increases survivability drastically and makes it more about random kitten crits than any other class/spec in the game.

With Fury,they give us 20% of crit chance,equal to 400 precision as you state.t
The only way, we can have fury is through Air 10 traits. And while we may have permanent fury, we can not burst as hard as Zerker since we are not traited for power. I believe, to be a zerker, you will have to have a good Power, Crit Chance and Crit Dam. Since we don’t have many power and don’t trait for power,what good fury to us if we have low power output? And certainly we wil never have a chance to burst as good as a Zerker.

By toughness, I believe you are talking about Earth trait 10 that give protection? If not, our toughness only come from armor and the same as all other class. And while we may be able to keep Protection up,in a long run, it will not that much matter in a big fight with Cnditions flying around.

10 pts in Air and 10 pts in Water, that would make us either have 10 less in Water or Arcanee which either of them is very important to us. I tried 0/10/10/20/30 or 0/10/10/30/20, both works inferior to our popular build 0/10/0/30/30 or 0/0/10/30/30. You die way faster.Condition will eat you when u don’t have access to Grandmaster Water or you will die with Burst because you can’t switch attunment fast enough.

Unless Anet give us less need to trait in Arcane (less CD time on attunment swapping),Eles is fine at where it stands ATM.

!Unless Anet give us less need to trait in Arcane (less CD time on attunment swapping),Eles is fine at where it stands ATM."

Hahahhaha, no.
Elementalist is horribly too much at the moment, they got damage, healing and mobility.
Plus, if you have multiple elementalists, they synenergy perfectly with each other.
Heal, fire field, blash finisher, heal, heal heal heal heal.
You don’t get punished by picking 3 elementalists, where you get punished if you pick 3 of any other class.
Elementalist is nowhere near fine, pro players have complained about them for a while already, FOR A REASON.
Just because you like playing your OP class, and dont want to change it, doesnt make it “fine”

Henqquli.5078:

!Unless Anet give us less need to trait in Arcane (less CD time on attunment swapping),Eles is fine at where it stands ATM."

Hahahhaha, no.
Elementalist is horribly too much at the moment, they got damage, healing and mobility.
Plus, if you have multiple elementalists, they synenergy perfectly with each other.
Heal, fire field, blash finisher, heal, heal heal heal heal.
You don’t get punished by picking 3 elementalists, where you get punished if you pick 3 of any other class.
Elementalist is nowhere near fine, pro players have complained about them for a while already, FOR A REASON.
Just because you like playing your OP class, and dont want to change it, doesnt make it “fine”

Where do u see any team got punish for having 3 Guards, 3 Mesmers, 3 Necros, 3 Thiefs,…??? And because we have one well designed build does not mean we are Op. More like make other class well designed like us instead of calling for nerf. And just because you don’t play one and you find it hard to play against and with some hatred toward the class, does not make a class Op. And gosh, how many time do I have to repeat me self we can be good at one area but not all.. (Deal dam as Zerker while survive as Bunker and got Godly Healing,I wish…)

3 Guards = Not enough damage and sustain. Plus guardian got no mobility.
3 Mesmers = Super slow and super squishy.
3 Necros = Super slow, condi damage only, no burst.
3 Thiefs = Super squishy, can’t hold points.
3 Elementalist = Nice damage, nice healing, nice bunkering, nice mobility and nice stomping.

Stealth.9324:

Where do u see any team got punish for having 3 Guards, 3 Mesmers, 3 Necros, 3 Thiefs,…???

Real question is…where do you see someone running with 3 other classes except for eles? Maybe there’s a reason fot that…other classes has some weak points and running 3 of them is not viable cause you’ll have a great lack of something…eles are good at everything (aka op) so you can run even 3 of them…..simple..