Guild Wars 2

Not so shure about it. It can always be that someone adapts and brings a surprise. But yes its unlikely.

Acotje.5689:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Dreddful.4860:

Aggrostemma.1703:

/facepalm

another one…

OK, so here it is:

1, if you see a Guardian on a point you know there are traps!

Stating the obvious, still a inherit problem with the design you cannot admit

2, you can activate them by minions (means dead DH)

And how many classes have that now?

3, you can counterplay it with stability-block-invul-aegis-whatever

Everybody has that right?

4, the DH is a one trick pony… they are either medi trap or full trap (or condi… but God’s help is needed for you to beat a condi guard if you have issues with a standard DH…). Full trap is a piece of kitten absolutely weak and the only purpose is to beat a single idiot. Meditrapper is a bit trickier but they only use 2-3 traps.

Its fine as long as it is one a trick pony since it only needs one trick to kill you? U wot m8

Obvious DH player

Thief doesn’t. No stability. No aegis. One block..which DH has unblockable ranged attacks. So no, not everybody.

Shadow Step in, Shadow Return out. Also, don’t 1v1 on Thief. It is not your job.

Btw shadowstepping triggers ToF barrier dmg. In which case teleporting out often results in you getting rekt. lel

Also try killing a DH on a gs/ham warr without skrub-rampage. Tell me how that went for ya On point it’s already hard as F, in a legit 1v1 duel where you can both start at max range and he sets the entire pace of the fight since you have to get to him and always keep in mind where his traps are its just GG.

2 melee swaps is right out, as a warrior I have to concur. DH kinda hardcounters melee fighters.

Haven’t lost to a single 1v1 against a DH as a Reaper(talking about s1 reaper, not post-buff). Maybe play a reaper, i red they are even stronger now.

traps go on cd wen placed not activated
longbow knockback 10s cd
unblockable spear of justice pull
traps apply big boons on short cds fury,protection 10 might stacks
traps daze

basically asides from things like Elixir S and Mist form you got no counter if you landed in a trap

traps alone yank up to 5 stability stacks on activation

What I find frustrating is two DH’s when I need to cap. I’m just not good enough to permutate for both sets of traps if they focus me.

Really simple really: make DH traps like ranger or thief traps

its hard to imagine the same people who designed thief and ranger traps designed DH traps

its like anet devs invited over dota 2 devs to help them design DH traps for maximum bullkitten

Once again people qq that dh is the 6th best class! Wow! Way too good right, pls nerf. Warrior too

I would like to have DH damage nerf get reverted but there is a cook time of 1 second. Meaning, if the DH trap hasn’t been used within 1 second, it will do maximum damage. If the DH placed the trap under an enemy which causes it to activate immediately, it will do pitiful damage.

This way, traps can actually play as traps.

Booms.2594:

Once again people qq that dh is the 6th best class! Wow! Way too good right, pls nerf. Warrior too

haha, so true… really shows the amount of knowledge/skill floating around on this forum….

PowerBottom.5796:

Booms.2594:

Once again people qq that dh is the 6th best class! Wow! Way too good right, pls nerf. Warrior too

haha, so true… really shows the amount of knowledge/skill floating around on this forum….

Sometimes its more than strict class meta ranking in the pro tournaments that matter. I will argue that for the bulk of players (within a standard deviation or two of talent from the median) the DH is far more effective than the pro’s find it.

Consider the whole engi turret debacle. I suspect if you take an objective look you were probably happy to see turrets get nerfed, and those turret engi builds weren’t by any means used in pro league at all. The reason the nerf was needed was not because of relative strength of the build, but because of the play style and game flow it engendered. And there were some eggs broken with that omlette because it made supply crate suck, which is something that all engi builds were relying on at the time, not just the turret ones. So it might help you to understand the complaints if you frame them in the same light as the engi turret hate that was on before.

Incidentally thanks to that turrets are absolutely useless now (aside from healing), and so their nerf wasn’t to adjust to make it more competitive or skill based but to remove the things all together from use…. which was a very lazy fix in my opinion. I’m hoping that doesn’t happen here.

shion.2084:

PowerBottom.5796:

Booms.2594:

Once again people qq that dh is the 6th best class! Wow! Way too good right, pls nerf. Warrior too

haha, so true… really shows the amount of knowledge/skill floating around on this forum….

Sometimes its more than strict class meta ranking in the pro tournaments that matter. I will argue that for the bulk of players (within a standard deviation or two of talent from the median) the DH is far more effective than the pro’s find it.

Consider the whole engi turret debacle. I suspect if you take an objective look you were probably happy to see turrets get nerfed, and those turret engi builds weren’t by any means used in pro league at all. The reason the nerf was needed was not because of relative strength of the build, but because of the play style and game flow it engendered. And there were some eggs broken with that omlette because it made supply crate suck, which is something that all engi builds were relying on at the time, not just the turret ones. So it might help you to understand the complaints if you frame them in the same light as the engi turret hate that was on before.

Incidentally thanks to that turrets are absolutely useless now (aside from healing), and so their nerf wasn’t to adjust to make it more competitive or skill based but to remove the things all together from use…. which was a very lazy fix in my opinion. I’m hoping that doesn’t happen here.

engi was still viable though you guys just want guardian to be completely unviable where it already barely is

shion.2084:

PowerBottom.5796:

Booms.2594:

Once again people qq that dh is the 6th best class! Wow! Way too good right, pls nerf. Warrior too

haha, so true… really shows the amount of knowledge/skill floating around on this forum….

Sometimes its more than strict class meta ranking in the pro tournaments that matter. I will argue that for the bulk of players (within a standard deviation or two of talent from the median) the DH is far more effective than the pro’s find it.

Consider the whole engi turret debacle. I suspect if you take an objective look you were probably happy to see turrets get nerfed, and those turret engi builds weren’t by any means used in pro league at all. The reason the nerf was needed was not because of relative strength of the build, but because of the play style and game flow it engendered. And there were some eggs broken with that omlette because it made supply crate suck, which is something that all engi builds were relying on at the time, not just the turret ones. So it might help you to understand the complaints if you frame them in the same light as the engi turret hate that was on before.

Incidentally thanks to that turrets are absolutely useless now (aside from healing), and so their nerf wasn’t to adjust to make it more competitive or skill based but to remove the things all together from use…. which was a very lazy fix in my opinion. I’m hoping that doesn’t happen here.

I don’t think DH is as dumb as turret engi or minion mancer, traps actually offer a few unique strategic opportunities; the build isn’t the hardest to play, but it’s not the easiest either.

The reason why it’s better in lower levels of play is pretty simple: The hardest counters like D/F-clerics Ele and Scrapper and builds that do decent against it like rev’s, are IMHO played way less than Necro, which is not really strong against DH at all.

Also, most hardcounters actually require skill to hardcounter the DH, so on top of the counters being played less often, they are also played less effectively.

Those counters really are IMHO the downfall of the DH and why it’s strength is so closely tied to the meta: it gets countered extremely hard by projectile absorbs/reflects and decent amounts of stability/invulnerability. Also, the decent amount of block/evades on for example rev and scrapper do very well against the DH’s very bursty dmg. But if those counters aren’t being played, the build suddenly get pretty strong. That’s IMHO not how a well balanced game should turn out.

I think this obsession with DH traps is in part psychological.

People generally don’t like being defeated in the first place, but when the defeat comes at the hands of an indirect mechanic, players seem to get even more incensed. This applies to pets, condi damage and traps. People really really get bent out of shape when they get defeated by these mechanics. So with that in mind, there is no way to balance these indirect damage mechanics that would satisfy players short of making them do as little damage as possible, such as the case with the reveal trap, which, coincidentally, is almost never used.

When Anet sees these threads about condi damage, pets or traps, they really need to take into consideration the psychological reaction of the player to these mechanics that may be motivating the higher levels of anger.

Booms.2594:

shion.2084:

PowerBottom.5796:

Booms.2594:

Once again people qq that dh is the 6th best class! Wow! Way too good right, pls nerf. Warrior too

haha, so true… really shows the amount of knowledge/skill floating around on this forum….

Sometimes its more than strict class meta ranking in the pro tournaments that matter. I will argue that for the bulk of players (within a standard deviation or two of talent from the median) the DH is far more effective than the pro’s find it.

Consider the whole engi turret debacle. I suspect if you take an objective look you were probably happy to see turrets get nerfed, and those turret engi builds weren’t by any means used in pro league at all. The reason the nerf was needed was not because of relative strength of the build, but because of the play style and game flow it engendered. And there were some eggs broken with that omlette because it made supply crate suck, which is something that all engi builds were relying on at the time, not just the turret ones. So it might help you to understand the complaints if you frame them in the same light as the engi turret hate that was on before.

Incidentally thanks to that turrets are absolutely useless now (aside from healing), and so their nerf wasn’t to adjust to make it more competitive or skill based but to remove the things all together from use…. which was a very lazy fix in my opinion. I’m hoping that doesn’t happen here.

engi was still viable though you guys just want guardian to be completely unviable where it already barely is

Actually I find you guys an enjoyable challenge. What I’m pointing out is that the argument that something doesn’t need adjusted because it’s not used by the 0.1% of folks in the pro leauges is not a sufficient one. I think you missed my point.

I will say that I’d like to see maybe more counter play to traps and more kind of active skill involved in playing them effectively. I’m not sure what form that should take. There seems to be a fairly low skill floor and a moderate skill ceiling and I’d like to see that shifted up.

PowerBottom.5796:

shion.2084:

PowerBottom.5796:

Booms.2594:

Once again people qq that dh is the 6th best class! Wow! Way too good right, pls nerf. Warrior too

haha, so true… really shows the amount of knowledge/skill floating around on this forum….

Sometimes its more than strict class meta ranking in the pro tournaments that matter. I will argue that for the bulk of players (within a standard deviation or two of talent from the median) the DH is far more effective than the pro’s find it.

Consider the whole engi turret debacle. I suspect if you take an objective look you were probably happy to see turrets get nerfed, and those turret engi builds weren’t by any means used in pro league at all. The reason the nerf was needed was not because of relative strength of the build, but because of the play style and game flow it engendered. And there were some eggs broken with that omlette because it made supply crate suck, which is something that all engi builds were relying on at the time, not just the turret ones. So it might help you to understand the complaints if you frame them in the same light as the engi turret hate that was on before.

Incidentally thanks to that turrets are absolutely useless now (aside from healing), and so their nerf wasn’t to adjust to make it more competitive or skill based but to remove the things all together from use…. which was a very lazy fix in my opinion. I’m hoping that doesn’t happen here.

I don’t think DH is as dumb as turret engi or minion mancer, traps actually offer a few unique strategic opportunities; the build isn’t the hardest to play, but it’s not the easiest either.

The reason why it’s better in lower levels of play is pretty simple: The hardest counters like D/F-clerics Ele and Scrapper and builds that do decent against it like rev’s, are IMHO played way less than Necro, which is not really strong against DH at all.

Also, most hardcounters actually require skill to hardcounter the DH, so on top of the counters being played less often, they are also played less effectively.

Those counters really are IMHO the downfall of the DH and why it’s strength is so closely tied to the meta: it gets countered extremely hard by projectile absorbs/reflects and decent amounts of stability/invulnerability. Also, the decent amount of block/evades on for example rev and scrapper do very well against the DH’s very bursty dmg. But if those counters aren’t being played, the build suddenly get pretty strong. That’s IMHO not how a well balanced game should turn out.

Oh I wasn’t saying it was as dumb as turret engi, which in itself when played well wasn’t necessarily dumb either. I would say the skill floor is a bit lower and it whacks noobs, and they pair well when there are two of them. I think it needs a tweak to make it more challenging to play, not necessarily less powerful when played very well.

shion.2084:

Booms.2594:

shion.2084:

PowerBottom.5796:

Booms.2594:

Once again people qq that dh is the 6th best class! Wow! Way too good right, pls nerf. Warrior too

haha, so true… really shows the amount of knowledge/skill floating around on this forum….

Sometimes its more than strict class meta ranking in the pro tournaments that matter. I will argue that for the bulk of players (within a standard deviation or two of talent from the median) the DH is far more effective than the pro’s find it.

Consider the whole engi turret debacle. I suspect if you take an objective look you were probably happy to see turrets get nerfed, and those turret engi builds weren’t by any means used in pro league at all. The reason the nerf was needed was not because of relative strength of the build, but because of the play style and game flow it engendered. And there were some eggs broken with that omlette because it made supply crate suck, which is something that all engi builds were relying on at the time, not just the turret ones. So it might help you to understand the complaints if you frame them in the same light as the engi turret hate that was on before.

Incidentally thanks to that turrets are absolutely useless now (aside from healing), and so their nerf wasn’t to adjust to make it more competitive or skill based but to remove the things all together from use…. which was a very lazy fix in my opinion. I’m hoping that doesn’t happen here.

engi was still viable though you guys just want guardian to be completely unviable where it already barely is

Actually I find you guys an enjoyable challenge. What I’m pointing out is that the argument that something doesn’t need adjusted because it’s not used by the 0.1% of folks in the pro leauges is not a sufficient one. I think you missed my point.

I will say that I’d like to see maybe more counter play to traps and more kind of active skill involved in playing them effectively. I’m not sure what form that should take. There seems to be a fairly low skill floor and a moderate skill ceiling and I’d like to see that shifted up.

wouldn’t mind that either but unless you have some suggestions then if anything DH needs buffs atm

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Dreddful.4860:

Aggrostemma.1703:

/facepalm

another one…

OK, so here it is:

1, if you see a Guardian on a point you know there are traps!

Stating the obvious, still a inherit problem with the design you cannot admit

2, you can activate them by minions (means dead DH)

And how many classes have that now?

3, you can counterplay it with stability-block-invul-aegis-whatever

Everybody has that right?

4, the DH is a one trick pony… they are either medi trap or full trap (or condi… but God’s help is needed for you to beat a condi guard if you have issues with a standard DH…). Full trap is a piece of kitten absolutely weak and the only purpose is to beat a single idiot. Meditrapper is a bit trickier but they only use 2-3 traps.

Its fine as long as it is one a trick pony since it only needs one trick to kill you? U wot m8

Obvious DH player

Thief doesn’t. No stability. No aegis. One block..which DH has unblockable ranged attacks. So no, not everybody.

And a ton of evasion.

Dh trapper is one of the easiest classes to play against, one skill toy.

What devs should do is increase Guard base hp to max (maybe test medium first) then set a 1 1/4 sec cast time on traps. This would force some actual skill based play because guard has a lot of blocks, make them use it. Aegis is there for a reason focus 5 is there for a reason.

At the same time there would be some counter play to traps if they can get interrupted. instead of just being able to get off double dragon’s maw and test of faith easily especially when spear of justice is unblockable and can be reset.