ESL changes
Remember dd ele is also one of the easiest spec to play at high level. Many people can multi-class dd ele.
Some other specs, e.g. signet necro, can also be strong. But fewer players have the experience and skill to play it effectively.
https://youtu.be/AbSE6enEjPc – EU Go4 GW2 #49 Highlights
https://youtu.be/aO7ew6EUEfo – NA Go4 GW2 #49 Highlightshighlights from latest Go4 cup. Meta is changing at an alarming rate. no team run 4 ele comp. But on the downside every team has 2 eles (except for one runing single ele but they seemed to be loosing). These forums where close to convincing me ele is not too strong now. But why are still teams with no eles non-existant and almost every single team thinks that 2 ele is the optimal way to win. Only way to counter 2 eles is to run 2 or more eles yourself.
Ele OP? discuss
Simply put: Superior mobility as a point holder.
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long
this is even a bigger problem in regular play (pugs, normal teams). If the best teams in the world have no chance of beating opponents that run more eles then them, how can you expect average players to overcome rolling less eles on their team in a match?
it is probably the easiest spec to play effectively so it has a huge effect on every level of play. Bad thief/ranger/mesmer/anything is a handicap, bad ele is still a monster and a very difficult target.
i really think that leaving the same sustain and giving them more guaranteed burns was the wrong way of dealing with this problem
Ele’s are not used the same at low levels as they are at high levels. They are also not even remotely ‘easy’ to play effectively. A bad ele goes down fast. A good ele just keeps you busy until the numbers are too great and then they just bounce out to another point where your team can’t kill them before they just leave again.
Consider the alternative approach to dealing with their competition as point holder- the Bunker Guard. How do you defeat a bunker guard that takes too long to kill? You simply rotate around them. They’ll never catch up and you can constantly move the fights away from them effectively negating their contribution to the team. Ele’s have no such limitation in exchange for lacking some of the sturdiness on point for rezzing and stomping and stability that a guardian might provide. In this age of “roaming bruisers” though those attributes are distributed amongst the rest of the team. You simply need someone who can get to places faster than the other team and occupy them for as long as possible without dying. There isn’t much in the game that can compete with that, and offer as much team fighting utility as DD ele does.
So why wouldn’t you take two of them in your team?
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long
People think ele is no longer op, but if anything it’s the same as before. Might stacking is more challenging but you could easily stack 25 might before June 23 and you can still do it after this Nerf. Vigor in general is no longer that useful so that Nerf is very minor. And the ring of fire change is basically a buff since it’s now unavoidable to be burned. I really think what makes d/d ele so strong was never it’s damage but it’s insane sustain.
So why wouldn’t you take two of them in your team?
exactly but couple weeks ago it seemed as if the people in charge of balance where aware that there is problem with ele stacking and ele being way to OP. I really did think they wanted to change the ele meta and that they where not ok with stacking eles being mandatory to compete with other teams stacking eles. And that its not ok that half the pug matches are decided by the initial mm dice roll – who gets eles and who doesnt.
But then the patch came with no meaningful changes and then silence. Dont know what changed, why they suddenly decided that ele doesnt need meaningful balancing.
With HoT so close i doubt they have the time to watch Go4 cups but i do hope they at least sometimes see the highlights of matches and hopefully one day notice that ele stacking is just as bad as ever. Regular play is even worse but esl/ag cups are good examples.
tl;dr – Ele is so braindead a monkey can pick it up and play it at an ESL level almost immediately.
Thief 80 | Elementalist 80 | Mesmer 80 | Necromancer 80 | Revenant TBA
I played quite a bit of dd ele recently. Basically before patch, I do about 35k direct damage and 20k condie damage per game. Now I do about 30k direct damage and 12k condie damage. I think it is not bad for a spec that can also hold point and rotate very efficiently.
Lol its funny. When people run 4 ele, you cry op, ok. When people run 2, back to the old meta, you still cry op.
So if people run it in esl, it’s op? That would make many classes ‘op’. It’s good, no doubt, but not op.
If nobody runs it, it means it isn’t good. Aka underpowered. So if the only way to convince you that ele isn’t op is to have teams run none of them, you can remain unconvinced.
- Primordial Legend
Semi-active.
Lol its funny. When people run 4 ele, you cry op, ok. When people run 2, back to the old meta, you still cry op.
So if people run it in esl, it’s op? That would make many classes ‘op’. It’s good, no doubt, but not op.
If nobody runs it, it means it isn’t good. Aka underpowered. So if the only way to convince you that ele isn’t op is to have teams run none of them, you can remain unconvinced.
You can expect from those “pro” Meta wannabe posters as much as you can expect from balance team.
i.e – Nothing.
Lol its funny. When people run 4 ele, you cry op, ok. When people run 2, back to the old meta, you still cry op.
So if people run it in esl, it’s op? That would make many classes ‘op’. It’s good, no doubt, but not op.
If nobody runs it, it means it isn’t good. Aka underpowered. So if the only way to convince you that ele isn’t op is to have teams run none of them, you can remain unconvinced.
It’s the most represented class to me that means its the strongest. It’s not just that its used. It’s really not hard logic.
Lol its funny. When people run 4 ele, you cry op, ok. When people run 2, back to the old meta, you still cry op.
So if people run it in esl, it’s op? That would make many classes ‘op’. It’s good, no doubt, but not op.
If nobody runs it, it means it isn’t good. Aka underpowered. So if the only way to convince you that ele isn’t op is to have teams run none of them, you can remain unconvinced.
Isnt there a tier between nobody runs the build and 2 out of 5 madnatory? Nobody ever runs a ranger but every other class except for thief (which has its own role and its own problems outside of decaping free points) is optional, some people run it some dont. But one single build is absolutely mandatory and 2 of that build is optimal (3-4 still being viable). Does it really have to be this way? And how is that not overpowered? Is it really that hard to tone down the crazy sustain?
Again esl is just example, ele dominance is far bigger problem in regular play. But you cant really expect devs to spectate thousands of random matches and notice how op ele is. Go4 cups and similar are a visible example, theres always a chance someone from balance team will see the highlights or read the thread that points it out. Thats why we gotta keep fighting the good fight and scream ele OP every day :P
It also kinda kills the l2p argument, if the best teams dont stand a chance of winning without running cele eles, something is wrong with the balance and you cant expect average teams/players to deal with them either.
If teams are not runnig 4 ele anymore is just due to esl rules which have been updated in emergency to force teams to have at least 3 professions represented.
https://youtu.be/AbSE6enEjPc – EU Go4 GW2 #49 Highlights
https://youtu.be/aO7ew6EUEfo – NA Go4 GW2 #49 HighlightsMeta is changing at an alarming rate. no team run 4 ele comp.
Ofc, because ESL banned the 4 ele comp :P
i thought they removed the max 3 ele per team rule, but i could be mistaken
i thought they removed the max 3 ele per team rule, but i could be mistaken
seems still to be there
Why are people still making threads about this? Unless a stealth patch has been sneakily dropped without any notes, then there’s no need for further discussion. Try this thread again after the 23rd.
Just a random thought. What if we swap the water attunement skills on the focus and dagger?
Currently dagger water skills are defensive and focus water skills are offensive. This seems to be contrary to the weapon design.
I kinda hope the super sustain, 1v1 king ele to be a d/f ele. This way they won’t have the easy disengage of RTL. d/d ele, on the other hand, will have a bit less sustain.
Why are people still making threads about this? Unless a stealth patch has been sneakily dropped without any notes, then there’s no need for further discussion. Try this thread again after the 23rd.
Raising awareness Also you can ignore the jab at ele balance, those are highlights from Go4, its relevant to the forum section. Even if it is mostly eles fighting other eles, its kinda fun to watch.
And after 23rd ill be playing HoT, no time to care about balance then. If its not balanced idc, i can take a break from pvp, i have plenty of pve to play through. By the time im done with that, they will have 2-3 patches out to fix that kitten. First league season looks like its going to be for d/d eles, chronos and scrappers only anyway.
Just a random thought. What if we swap the water attunement skills on the focus and dagger?
Currently dagger water skills are defensive and focus water skills are offensive. This seems to be contrary to the weapon design.
I kinda hope the super sustain, 1v1 king ele to be a d/f ele. This way they won’t have the easy disengage of RTL. d/d ele, on the other hand, will have a bit less sustain.
This would make S/D Burst op, it is already pretty kitten good… Having an extra cc + LR proc on water and a ranged chill would be brutal.
But why are still teams with no eles non-existant and almost every single team thinks that 2 ele is the optimal way to win.
Because it is.
Lol its funny. When people run 4 ele, you cry op, ok. When people run 2, back to the old meta, you still cry op.
So if people run it in esl, it’s op? That would make many classes ‘op’. It’s good, no doubt, but not op.
If nobody runs it, it means it isn’t good. Aka underpowered. So if the only way to convince you that ele isn’t op is to have teams run none of them, you can remain unconvinced.
It’s the most represented class to me that means its the strongest. It’s not just that its used. It’s really not hard logic.
Beg to differ. Most represented means that it’s the most versatile. No point changing to another class when this class can fulfil most of your needs.
Does not necessarily translate to strength, it’s not hard logic.
- Primordial Legend
Semi-active.
What is the point of these threads when HoT is coming out soon and the balance will be broken anyways? There will be stronger and weaker specs, maybe wait a bit to see how things are? There’s no need to overnerf ele.
Also, your problem with stacking 25 might should go to the nerf specs who can do so, too. But why aren’t you complaining about those?
Lol its funny. When people run 4 ele, you cry op, ok. When people run 2, back to the old meta, you still cry op.
So if people run it in esl, it’s op? That would make many classes ‘op’. It’s good, no doubt, but not op.
If nobody runs it, it means it isn’t good. Aka underpowered. So if the only way to convince you that ele isn’t op is to have teams run none of them, you can remain unconvinced.
It’s the most represented class to me that means its the strongest. It’s not just that its used. It’s really not hard logic.
Beg to differ. Most represented means that it’s the most versatile. No point changing to another class when this class can fulfil most of your needs.
Does not necessarily translate to strength, it’s not hard logic.
So ele is most represented because is is the most versatile. It is the most versatile because it fulfills all roles except stealth decapper better than most every class fills individual roles. Clearly not the strongest class.
What is the point of these threads when HoT is coming out soon and the balance will be broken anyways? There will be stronger and weaker specs, maybe wait a bit to see how things are? There’s no need to overnerf ele.
Also, your problem with stacking 25 might should go to the nerf specs who can do so, too. But why aren’t you complaining about those?
Do you seriously want a situation where wtih HoT new builds will be created that can beat DD ele and Anet will say “oh nice, nothing to do here, problem solved itself” thus making the powercreep skyrocket?
I wouldn’t want to play a game where the current DD ele is considered “fine” or even weak. It would be just unplayable.
Hahaha, “the only way to counter double ele is to run double ele”? That’s rich.
Every team in the ESL is a follower anyway so we’ll see double Ele rather than attempts to counter it.
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What is the point of these threads when HoT is coming out soon and the balance will be broken anyways? There will be stronger and weaker specs, maybe wait a bit to see how things are? There’s no need to overnerf ele.
Also, your problem with stacking 25 might should go to the nerf specs who can do so, too. But why aren’t you complaining about those?
Do you seriously want a situation where wtih HoT new builds will be created that can beat DD ele and Anet will say “oh nice, nothing to do here, problem solved itself” thus making the powercreep skyrocket?
I wouldn’t want to play a game where the current DD ele is considered “fine” or even weak. It would be just unplayable.
Because it already doesn’t skyrocket, right?
Wannabe eSport and balance methods are the same as always.
Not single pig given about anything and what experienced players have to say.
They even removed Profession Balance forum which somehow had a decent impact on balance and communication was so-so.
After F2P launch I expect them to give even less care for such stuff.
And with this they do not deserve even a nickel.
highlights from latest Go4 cup. Meta is changing at an alarming rate. no team run 4 ele comp.
Because it is forbidden to by the rules…. I think the Rule is each team must have 3 or 4 different classes.
Also wasn’t Vamp runes forbidden shortly after fix too? Why don’t they just remove it from the game?(I have seen some1 running it since then so i guess not forbidden anymore but maybe should be)
6k+ PvP games
Lol its funny. When people run 4 ele, you cry op, ok. When people run 2, back to the old meta, you still cry op.
So if people run it in esl, it’s op? That would make many classes ‘op’. It’s good, no doubt, but not op.
If nobody runs it, it means it isn’t good. Aka underpowered. So if the only way to convince you that ele isn’t op is to have teams run none of them, you can remain unconvinced.
It’s the most represented class to me that means its the strongest. It’s not just that its used. It’s really not hard logic.
Beg to differ. Most represented means that it’s the most versatile. No point changing to another class when this class can fulfil most of your needs.
Does not necessarily translate to strength, it’s not hard logic.
So ele is most represented because is is the most versatile. It is the most versatile because it fulfills all roles except stealth decapper better than most every class fills individual roles. Clearly not the strongest class.
Incorrect. D/d ele does not fulfil burst roles either. Nor does it fulfil the hard bunker support role like the bunker guard. Which is also why you see other classes. It just happens that most of the time they only need 1 of each role specific class, hence you don’t see two thieves, or two mesmers etc most of the time.
So for example, when you have a bunker support role (guardian), stealth decapper (thieves), burst support role (mesmer, with portal), you fill the remaining slots with the most versatile class (2 ele). Like I said, clearly not the strongest class by this argument.
- Primordial Legend
Semi-active.
^you dont fill out with eles. you start with eles. and yes it is clearly 100% the strongest build in the game by a wide wide margin