Guild Wars 2

There should be easier to play specs to the Elementalist/Ranger, new traits that dump down the class a bit to one or two attunements and the ability to make the pet completely passive.

For example:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Elementalist-GM-Trait-Ideas-Unique/first#post2821916

Can’t tell if trolling….

Batmang.5421:

Can’t tell if trolling….

Am not, many players are complaining about how hard Ele/Ranger is to play. I think the classes should be easier.

lmao Ranger hard to play
hahahahaha

Ranger is pretty much spam autoattack until your target dies. King of passive play not much apm involved.

OP is right!!!
Ranger for me is so hard to play.
I realy cannot play with such brainless class anymore.
Sometimes I fall asleep on the keyboard too.

..another Daecollo thread…

Your ideas would/will kill this game even more.

kitten s.7421:

Your ideas would/will kill this game even more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjuHgYCxoKY

nerf Daecollo pls, no counterplay

Ranger is ridiculously easy to play, I mean beyond easy & then some.

Sure, ele can be tricky, but only thing that makes it harder is all the stupid nerfs they constantly receive.

According to Sharp on the live stream, most ele only use 1-2 attunements anyway.

Yes, he probably meant PvE ele only & even then a small sub set of the ele players, but I`d guess most do swap & have to to do half as well as every other class.

Leave the attunements as they are (or across the board lower cds).

hahaha you guys that deride the ranger class seriously crack me up sometimes. of course you CAN sit there and spam autoattack but ONLY with shortbow. i agree beastmaster amd spirit ranger are way too powerful for the effort taken. not arguing that. but come on, almost every class can be super effective doing little more than spamming. that is just one of the core problems of the game itself. When i play ranger i literally never play the two meta builds. well amost never. power builds i would say are one of the harder builds to play on any class. at least well. it actually requires pretty deft play to be effective. i also think most rangers would love more control of their pet. personally i dont like playing against or with ai at least in the state it is in. anyway besides the couple meta builds ranger can be as bard as any other class. i know everyone loves to feel that they play the most difficult and complex class which allows them to reinforce that they are skilled players. i know i can be guilty of this and in more areas than jist video games. but the constant belittling of certain classes is just useless

I guarantee no one in this thread is remotely good at pet micro “but ranger so easy”.

^agreed. 15 char

Elementalist needs to be easier to play, imo.

I thought they blocked sites like this in schools? Post less please OP these threads are mind numbing.

we need builds that are harder to play! not the other way around. This is a l2p issue, and frankly a pretty easy one, imo ele/ranger are the easiest classes to play -3 kit engi is pretty complex but it’s easy too once you figure out the basic rotations!
gw2’s skill cap is already pretty low because of the lack of skills we can bring into combat in the first place, why would we want to dumb it down even more?

If Elementalist got buffed and became easy as hell to play it would called wqrrqir.

Elementalist is for masochists. Ranger is for 5-year olds. Engie can be specced for either of the two. GW2 caters for all types of players dude.

Elementalist like BM Ranger followed a Rotation, and its not difficult.

But anyway, I think people are confusing things.

If you slap on a Shortbow and run around and shoot the number 1 key, Its viable in a zerg fight.. Its very easy to play, but is it effective in anything but that instance? Not really…Really no different from a Zerker Rifle Warrior.

Take a P/D thief, This actually requires just as little thought as a Shortbow Ranger…

But does anyone here think either of those classes are remotely easier to play than a Mace/Shield and Greatsword Warrior right now?

Nope..They’re about the same level of skill required, only one is a 100x more effective.

What about a Condition Necromancer, Is that a really hard class to play? not really.

D/D elementalist might have a lot of abilities to play, But again like the BM Ranger its not rocket science, Its a Rotation that you follow.

The difference between a D/D Elementalist/BM Ranger and a Shortbow Ranger is Rotation and that’s simply it.

None of them require a lot of thought.

Xsorus.2507:

Elementalist like BM Ranger followed a Rotation, and its not difficult.

But anyway, I think people are confusing things.

If you slap on a Shortbow and run around and shoot the number 1 key, Its viable in a zerg fight.. Its very easy to play, but is it effective in anything but that instance? Not really…Really no different from a Zerker Rifle Warrior.

Take a P/D thief, This actually requires just as little thought as a Shortbow Ranger…

But does anyone here think either of those classes are remotely easier to play than a Mace/Shield and Greatsword Warrior right now?

Nope..They’re about the same level of skill required, only one is a 100x more effective.

What about a Condition Necromancer, Is that a really hard class to play? not really.

D/D elementalist might have a lot of abilities to play, But again like the BM Ranger its not rocket science, Its a Rotation that you follow.

The difference between a D/D Elementalist/BM Ranger and a Shortbow Ranger is Rotation and that’s simply it.

None of them require a lot of thought.

Actually the Skullcrack War is pretty hard to play. Its simply but you have to be careful where you land. You can miss and mess up pretty easily and your enemy can see it coming as soon as they see the mace.

I trash most Mace Wars.

There is a major difference between Simple and Easy.

Your posts are not good for the health of the game

I thought most ele’s just used fire attunement for the big numbers and switch to water for healing? :o

[In case this thread isn’t an attempt at trolling]
As someone who has only played elementalist and ranger, I can say they are both very straightforward. If you can’t understand to switch attunements for the ele, then take your time to learn it, like you would every other class. PvE is a good place to learn by slowly getting more skills in each attunement.

Mate, just spec for something specific if you want a (one) simple attunement if you can’t fathom using more than that. It can be done, you know?

Daecollo.9578:

Xsorus.2507:

Elementalist like BM Ranger followed a Rotation, and its not difficult.

But anyway, I think people are confusing things.

If you slap on a Shortbow and run around and shoot the number 1 key, Its viable in a zerg fight.. Its very easy to play, but is it effective in anything but that instance? Not really…Really no different from a Zerker Rifle Warrior.

Take a P/D thief, This actually requires just as little thought as a Shortbow Ranger…

But does anyone here think either of those classes are remotely easier to play than a Mace/Shield and Greatsword Warrior right now?

Nope..They’re about the same level of skill required, only one is a 100x more effective.

What about a Condition Necromancer, Is that a really hard class to play? not really.

D/D elementalist might have a lot of abilities to play, But again like the BM Ranger its not rocket science, Its a Rotation that you follow.

The difference between a D/D Elementalist/BM Ranger and a Shortbow Ranger is Rotation and that’s simply it.

None of them require a lot of thought.

Actually the Skullcrack War is pretty hard to play. Its simply but you have to be careful where you land. You can miss and mess up pretty easily and your enemy can see it coming as soon as they see the mace.

I trash most Mace Wars.

There is a major difference between Simple and Easy.

There is nothing remotely hard about playing a skullcrack warrior.

Only you would find it remotely challenging to play.

Shatter mesmer is harder to play then stun wqrrqir because it actually require set up and you are actually a class cannon. Stun wqrrqirs can actually take a lot of punishment. They have great offence and great defense and and easy burst to land.

Things that should be looked into

• traits that are required to make certain weapons/utilities viable removed and just added the the skills.
  I.E.
  * Grandmaster trait “Grenadier” to use grenades as Engi
  * Grandmaster trait “Spirits Unbound” to use spirits as Ranger
  * Near forced 30 Arcana to make Ele viable
  There are probably others

• Shave down Ranger Spirits and change Rangers passive cleanse to a more active counter. Continue to work on pet AI (Applies to Necro too).

• Shave up Elementalist in general, I’m not sure how exactly

• Shave up certain Engineer kits (Bombs appears to be getting sorted, FT still needs work) and provide a mobility solution for turrets.

Hopefully this will sort a lot of the issues with these classes

Ok we all know by now that BM was a simple build to play and Spirits is a super simple build to play..
Still this doesnt make the whole class being easy to play..
Power Rangers are pretty tough to master..I wont say is rocket science but its probably one of the most tough builds out there..
I will point some of the things that makes Rangers easy to play..
Condition meta requires a lot of condition cleaners,Rangers have a signet that transfers all conditions to pet with a pretty long cd,one healing skill and the Empathetic bond trait which requires 30 points investement.Empathetic Bond is a passive trait that every Ranger in this meta is forced to take it,if conditions werent so out of control Rangers wouldnt take this passive trait..Its not a fault of the class mechanics,its the meta..

So even tho i still believe that Rangers are having some passive mechanics that cant be taken away (pets) is the meta that forces em in even more passiveness..
The class has many options for active skillfull play,ppl dont choose em cause they cant survive without some current traits

Dont forget to actively counter passive stats

This thread makes angels cry…

I main ele and do just fine in pvp. The class could go for a buff, but that’s all I’ll say about that. For those saying they’re too hard to play, no they’re not, they’re just not for you. If ANet dumbs down ele and makes it effective by sitting in one or two attunements, I will rage. This is not a class for the weak of heart and should not be made so.

For those saying it’s just a rotation you need to learn, no it’s not. Maybe you can get away with that in pick up games, but against skilled competition you actually need to know your class and know your options. The attunement you’re in is based 75% on what your opponent is doing and 25% on what you’re trying to set up. Trying to make it into a rotation means you’re making it 100% about what you’re trying to set up and will end up with you waiting to respawn far more often than not.

Xsorus.2507:

Daecollo.9578:

Xsorus.2507:

Elementalist like BM Ranger followed a Rotation, and its not difficult.

But anyway, I think people are confusing things.

If you slap on a Shortbow and run around and shoot the number 1 key, Its viable in a zerg fight.. Its very easy to play, but is it effective in anything but that instance? Not really…Really no different from a Zerker Rifle Warrior.

Take a P/D thief, This actually requires just as little thought as a Shortbow Ranger…

But does anyone here think either of those classes are remotely easier to play than a Mace/Shield and Greatsword Warrior right now?

Nope..They’re about the same level of skill required, only one is a 100x more effective.

What about a Condition Necromancer, Is that a really hard class to play? not really.

D/D elementalist might have a lot of abilities to play, But again like the BM Ranger its not rocket science, Its a Rotation that you follow.

The difference between a D/D Elementalist/BM Ranger and a Shortbow Ranger is Rotation and that’s simply it.

None of them require a lot of thought.

Actually the Skullcrack War is pretty hard to play. Its simply but you have to be careful where you land. You can miss and mess up pretty easily and your enemy can see it coming as soon as they see the mace.

I trash most Mace Wars.

There is a major difference between Simple and Easy.

There is nothing remotely hard about playing a skullcrack warrior.

Only you would find it remotely challenging to play.

How come I don’t see very many if you claim to be as powerful and awesome as they are?

You got it in your head that elementalist has to be this BA class that only a few people can play.

Most elementalists stay in 1-2 attunements.

Elementalist needs new traits that make you want to stay in 1-2 attunements only, and lock out 1-2 attunements as well giving them a stat boost of some kind.

Daecollo.9578:

How come I don’t see very many if you claim to be as powerful and awesome as they are?

You got it in your head that elementalist has to be this BA class that only a few people can play.

Most elementalists stay in 1-2 attunements.

Elementalist needs new traits that make you want to stay in 1-2 attunements only, and lock out 1-2 attunements as well giving them a stat boost of some kind.

This is hands down the worst post regarding eles that I have ever seen.

Couple things… I don’t think that most eles stay in 1-2 attunements, but the ones that do are awful. I’m going to reiterate that if you want to stay in one or two attunements then ele is absolutely not the class for you. It’s a difficult class to play and should remain that way. It has a lot of minutiae and is incredibly difficult to master. If you start dumbing down the class, then you are taking away the very thing that makes it fun to play.

Please, please, go play some other class. You’ll have a better time, trust me.

DiBiddilyBop.1470:

Daecollo.9578:

How come I don’t see very many if you claim to be as powerful and awesome as they are?

You got it in your head that elementalist has to be this BA class that only a few people can play.

Most elementalists stay in 1-2 attunements.

Elementalist needs new traits that make you want to stay in 1-2 attunements only, and lock out 1-2 attunements as well giving them a stat boost of some kind.

This is hands down the worst post regarding eles that I have ever seen.

Couple things… I don’t think that most eles stay in 1-2 attunements, but the ones that do are awful. I’m going to reiterate that if you want to stay in one or two attunements then ele is absolutely not the class for you. It’s a difficult class to play and should remain that way. It has a lot of minutiae and is incredibly difficult to master. If you start dumbing down the class, then you are taking away the very thing that makes it fun to play.

Please, please, go play some other class. You’ll have a better time, trust me.

Don’t ask for class improvements if you don’t want your class being dumped down, because they are not going to improve the classes abilities when you have access to all of them at once. It would mean casual players would be /decent/ while really good players who can manage all four become /god-mode/.

You can’t ask for improvements when you already have complexity. Something has to dump, and I’m right, most eles actually do only play 2 attunements, because they can’t manage the class very well.

Daecollo.9578:

Don’t ask for class improvements if you don’t want your class being dumped down, because they are not going to improve the classes abilities when you have access to all of them at once. It would mean casual players would be /decent/ while really good players who can manage all four become /god-mode/.

You can’t ask for improvements when you already have complexity. Something has to dump, and I’m right, most eles actually do only play 2 attunements, because they can’t manage the class very well.

Don’t ask for class improvement when you have complexity? You realize that those two things are completely un-connected. What you’re saying makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. There was a point when eles were absolute top tier. They are now absolute bottom tier. You don’t have to completely change the nature of the class to find a middle ground. The complexity is fine how it is, and casual players who don’t like the complexity should not be playing this class. That’s really all there is to it.

Elementalists are a great example of how personal skill can make huge difference.

Great Ele’s are head and shoulders above the norm. Ele’s can be easy to play, but mastering them takes a lot of playing time.

This is how it should be. It’s like chess.

I hope they implement that attunement lock idea just to see how absolutely kittened your suggestions are.

DiBiddilyBop.1470:

Daecollo.9578:

Don’t ask for class improvements if you don’t want your class being dumped down, because they are not going to improve the classes abilities when you have access to all of them at once. It would mean casual players would be /decent/ while really good players who can manage all four become /god-mode/.

You can’t ask for improvements when you already have complexity. Something has to dump, and I’m right, most eles actually do only play 2 attunements, because they can’t manage the class very well.

Don’t ask for class improvement when you have complexity? You realize that those two things are completely un-connected. What you’re saying makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. There was a point when eles were absolute top tier. They are now absolute bottom tier. You don’t have to completely change the nature of the class to find a middle ground. The complexity is fine how it is, and casual players who don’t like the complexity should not be playing this class. That’s really all there is to it.

There is a reason for that, because of having 20 abilities many of them could miss and just not care, you had more ways to do the same thing then any other class.

They brought that down all around and now they are bad.

They should limit it to 10 abilities like the other classes and then they can improve it.

Ele should have attunement cooldowns removed and balanced accordingly (putting cooldowns on proc swaps).

This would actually make Ele’s harder to play instead of just rotating through cooldowns mindlessly, you’d actually be able to use cooldowns when you need them like Engy’s can.

At the very least put 5 second cooldowns on em.

Tracker.6483:

Elementalists are a great example of how personal skill can make huge difference.

Great Ele’s are head and shoulders above the norm. Ele’s can be easy to play, but mastering them takes a lot of playing time.

This is how it should be. It’s like chess.

The problem is eles are not head and shoulders above the norm, even when played supremely well. They are just plain underpowered.

Now, I do okay in pvp, so I was thinking maybe people are just whining and the class really isn’t as bad off as all the naysayers would have you believe, so I decided to check out the recent ESL games to see how many eles were in the final rounds. Would you believe there were no eles in the finals? Okay, that’s fine, there are other classes that aren’t represented there, so what about the semi finals? Still none. Before that it gets a little harder to look up the team compositions, but going back to the quarter finals there was still not a single ele to be seen. 8 teams, 40 players, 0 eles. I didn’t bother going back farther than that, but I think that’s enough to show that it’s a bit of a bleak situation for my favourite class at the moment.

Knote.2904:

Ele should have attunement cooldowns removed and balanced accordingly (putting cooldowns on proc swaps).

This would actually make Ele’s harder to play instead of just rotating through cooldowns mindlessly, you’d actually be able to use cooldowns when you need them like Engy’s can.

At the very least put 5 second cooldowns on em.

They can’t balance that way, because that means an ele will be at 50% advantage to other classes at the very start. If they reset the fight they will still keep that power.

Only way to do it is to improve the abilities of one attunement while locking out another attunement entirely.

For example, improving air’s abilities significantly (making RTL Prenerf, making skills do more damage and lower CDs.).

Then locking out the fire attunement entirely.

Daecollo.9578:

There is a reason for that, because of having 20 abilities many of them could miss and just not care, you had more ways to do the same thing then any other class.

They brought that down all around and now they are bad.

They should limit it to 10 abilities like the other classes and then they can improve it.

So you want to completely change the nature of the class because you think it’s too complicated? Haha, okay, I think this discussion is over.

DiBiddilyBop.1470:

Daecollo.9578:

There is a reason for that, because of having 20 abilities many of them could miss and just not care, you had more ways to do the same thing then any other class.

They brought that down all around and now they are bad.

They should limit it to 10 abilities like the other classes and then they can improve it.

So you want to completely change the nature of the class because you think it’s too complicated? Haha, okay, I think this discussion is over.

I think its too complicated and hard to balance.

Please think of this from a developer’s point of view.

Daecollo.9578:

Knote.2904:

Ele should have attunement cooldowns removed and balanced accordingly (putting cooldowns on proc swaps).

This would actually make Ele’s harder to play instead of just rotating through cooldowns mindlessly, you’d actually be able to use cooldowns when you need them like Engy’s can.

At the very least put 5 second cooldowns on em.

They can’t balance that way, because that means an ele will be at 50% advantage to other classes at the very start. If they reset the fight they will still keep that power.

Only way to do it is to improve the abilities of one attunement while locking out another attunement entirely.

For example, improving air’s abilities significantly (making RTL Prenerf, making skills do more damage and lower CDs.).

Then locking out the fire attunement entirely.

Well there’s 2 ways to go about doing this.

1.) Just remove or reduce cooldowns drastically, and rebalance the procs and stuff, now the playstyle isn’t clunky as hell and you can use important cooldowns when appropriate. And rework Arcana trait bonus to give lingering attunement bonuses.

or

2.) Go about having attunement specialization through traits, put a trait equivalent to Fresh Air for all attunements in their trees at 25 points, while keeping 16-20 second cooldowns on attunements. Then Arcana tree could reduce cooldowns drastically.

So then you can either specialize in 2 Element Attunements, or specialize in 1 as well as Arcana which focuses on utilizing all of them, then you could have 2 solid weapon sets and 2 weaker ones (which would fill our class mechanic abilities basically), or focus on all 4 sets equally with one being strongest.

The second option would require every attunement to be a solid standalone option, all of them could do dmg, etc (some more than others obviously), like water attunement would just be more supportive like Guardian/Mesmer Staff, but capable of doing dmg.

Daecollo.9578:

DiBiddilyBop.1470:

Daecollo.9578:

There is a reason for that, because of having 20 abilities many of them could miss and just not care, you had more ways to do the same thing then any other class.

They brought that down all around and now they are bad.

They should limit it to 10 abilities like the other classes and then they can improve it.

So you want to completely change the nature of the class because you think it’s too complicated? Haha, okay, I think this discussion is over.

I think its too complicated and hard to balance.

Please think of this from a developer’s point of view.

They’re doing a good job with Engy so far.

Daecollo.9578:

DiBiddilyBop.1470:

Daecollo.9578:

Don’t ask for class improvements if you don’t want your class being dumped down, because they are not going to improve the classes abilities when you have access to all of them at once. It would mean casual players would be /decent/ while really good players who can manage all four become /god-mode/.

You can’t ask for improvements when you already have complexity. Something has to dump, and I’m right, most eles actually do only play 2 attunements, because they can’t manage the class very well.

Don’t ask for class improvement when you have complexity? You realize that those two things are completely un-connected. What you’re saying makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. There was a point when eles were absolute top tier. They are now absolute bottom tier. You don’t have to completely change the nature of the class to find a middle ground. The complexity is fine how it is, and casual players who don’t like the complexity should not be playing this class. That’s really all there is to it.

There is a reason for that, because of having 20 abilities many of them could miss and just not care, you had more ways to do the same thing then any other class.

They brought that down all around and now they are bad.

They should limit it to 10 abilities like the other classes and then they can improve it.

Basically you’re suggesting to turn ele from failed design to something actually worth playing.

For that I’ve been called off numerous times and simply ignored..so gl, I’m genuinely surprised that somebody else outside the top players from GW1 ( in the beginning before release ) realize the inherent problems with the ele : having 20 skills = state of constant nerfing and irrelevant buffs

The flawed design of the ele was clear to quite few press people way back in March 2012 after the first exposition to the public, there was too much on the ele at any given time and Anet unprofessionaly turned to nerf everything on this profession and include numerous filler skills on weapon sets..that only now are being slowly ( but always partially) improved.

It may be indeed fun to play but the profession is not 100% efficient, I still remember that time when I was talking with @Zoose, I told him that ele wasn’t really efficient and his answer was : " yeah I know but I like the concept so I can make it work for me", I believe that’s the answer you will get from many die hard gw2 ele fans, but personally being a gw1 ele fan I’d like to have something akin to the old version : 100% efficiency , which equal to 100% fun for me.

To all the people who suggest to change profession!
I agree with you..but I can’t play for more than 10 hours a week and ele is the profession I PvE also, completed all map and story line, few nice weapon/armor skins ( soulbound ).

I can’t/won’t bother with another profession from scratch, I agree with those who want the ele to remain in the current state of complexity, ‘cause it means something to kill another player while using an ele but at the same time I shouldn’t be forced to perform complicated combos at all times where I die at the first error, furthermore the end result is close to what other professions can achieve with far less workload.

It appears as ele has been unofficially declared hard core mode by Anet, some people enjoy hardcore..but I never played hard core in any game so what if I like the idea of playing with elements and don’t like the gw2 ele?

In the past I suggested to revert the GW2 ele to the old version, a single element as main and a second element as secondary weapon set like the GW1 ele…I’m sure many would prefer this version rather than the “jack all trades..master of none” GW2 ele

Well, specialize in 1-2 attunements, but have amazing traits like this.

Drastically Improves the Fire Attunement, completely locks out Air.
Drastically Improves the Water Attunement, completely locks out Earth.
Drastically Improves the Air Attunement, completely locks out Fire.
Drastically Improves the Earth Attunement, completely locks out Water.

Earth should be focused on Condition Damage/Reducing Damage. (Bleeding Damage/Confusion Damage/Protection.)

Water should be focused on Power Damage/Healing. (Vulnerability/Weaknesss/Power Damage/Healing.)

Fire should be Condition Damage/Condition Removal and Control. (Burning, Power, Condition Control. (Remove conditions/cure for each one removed.).

Air Should be Burst/Critical Damage/Daze and Crowd Control.

This way you can have 1 offensive/1 defensive option.

Daecollo.9578:

Well, specialize in 1-2 attunements, but have amazing traits like this.

Drastically Improves the Fire Attunement, completely locks out Air.
Drastically Improves the Water Attunement, completely locks out Earth.
Drastically Improves the Air Attunement, completely locks out Fire.
Drastically Improves the Earth Attunement, completely locks out Water.

Earth should be focused on Condition Damage/Reducing Damage. (Bleeding Damage/Confusion Damage/Protection.)

Water should be focused on Power Damage/Healing. (Vulnerability/Weaknesss/Power Damage/Healing.)

---

Fire should be Condition Damage/Condition Removal and Control. (Burning, Power, Condition Control. (Remove conditions/cure for each one removed.).

Air Should be Burst/Critical Damage/Daze and Crowd Control.

This way you can have 1 offensive/1 defensive option.

+1

This way you can have…
Fire/Earth Ele.
Burning/High Confusion/High Bleeding/Tanking/Knockdowns. (Depending on Weapon.)

Water/Air Ele.
High Healing/High Critical Damage/Daze/Stuns. (Depending on Weapon.)

All Attunements Ele.
Does Everything, same as it does now.

What an amazing build diversity you have there, sent your CV to anet yet?

Daecollo.9578:

I think its too complicated and hard to balance.

Please think of this from a developer’s point of view.

I’ve watched the State of the Game videos and all I can say is I’m elated that the developers have explicitly said that they disagree with your point of view (because it’s been brought up… multiple times).

DiBiddilyBop.1470:

Daecollo.9578:

I think its too complicated and hard to balance.

Please think of this from a developer’s point of view.

I’ve watched the State of the Game videos and all I can say is I’m elated that the developers have explicitly said that they disagree with your point of view (because it’s been brought up… multiple times).

Uhh… No I think they are with me on this one.