Elementalist is very OP
I do not think the damage by an ele is anything higher than the videos I have seen other classes do. The survivability was buffed because staff ele survivability was a joke before the patch. I just see a ton of whines and no real video showing exactly what is goin on
gaem not made for mi
===========
I do not think the damage by an ele is anything higher than the videos I have seen other classes do. The survivability was buffed because staff ele survivability was a joke before the patch. I just see a ton of whines and no real video showing exactly wtf is goin on
Excuse me? D/d ele survability was superior, the other specs lacked any good survability. The class has to trait into survability, but then it’s too strong. And yet, the celestial spec got buffed again instead of actually making some changes to the baseline, so ele would have more options than one.
Shhhh, your taking the attention away from mesmer.
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
d/d ele never appeared to have that good a damage to me. There were many honest posts saying how many of them could be laid to waste. I played other classes and it was quite apparent how ele needed to be improved in pvp.
gaem not made for mi
===========
yeah it’s insane. cele eles are stupid OP now. thought it was bad before. if you don’t think cele eles are over the top, then you haven’t played against a good one.
Celestial it self isn’t making the ele op. Blame the burning meta
actually this is WRONG. and stop mis-using the word meta people. burns on engies, guards and rangers are perfectly fine.
burns on a bunker who can maintain 20-25 stacks of might permanently is STUPID. cele stats are fine, they just need to nerf might stacking more.
Hahahah “burns on guards are perfeclty fine.” Are you serious? Guards can instakill you with 20+ burn stacks within seconds.
this isn’t possible outside of PVE. hoomans have something neat called reaction. the most any burn guard has stacked on me is 7, which I can instantly cleanse because I slot 3 cleanses, then proceed to kill him. im not saying burn guards aren’t a problem per se, because they still wipe entire teams of baddies. but they aren’t nearly as OP as cele eles.
again, those of you saying cele ele isn’t a big deal 1) haven’t dueled a good one, and 2) are supporting a brainless mechanic of might stacking and limitless sustain
(edited by mistsim.2748)
Ele is so OP. You can use 20 skills BASELINE. And each skill is super powerful, have you seen phoenix?!?!!? How is it fair for them to shoot me with 6 pheonixs back to back?!?!? I wouldn’t be surprised if the tempest gets some kind of I-Win button. And have you seen TORNADO?!!? that thing flings people all over the place while dealing damage and blinds. NO, just NO. Nerf the Ele.
Secondly, I got something to say about 6 of the remaining classes: They are too strong!
Only class that’s balanced is the one I’m playing, cause I don’t like being meta.
Good luck A-Net, just remember the lessons of ride the lightning. If you really apply yourself, you could do the same thing with each ele skill. Maybe make offhand dagger 5 water skill give double cooldown if it doesn’t cleanse a condition. Number 4 in fire (staff), double cooldown if the ability doesn’t evade an attack) . Just follow that train of thought, and you’ll be golden.
Thanks.
Signed, Someone with too much time at work.
d/d ele never appeared to have that good a damage to me. There were many honest posts saying how many of them could be laid to waste. I played other classes and it was quite apparent how ele needed to be improved in pvp.
I agree the potential dmg output for the old d/d meta was pretty crappy prior to the patch.
(edited by Grimreaper.5370)
I do not think the damage by an ele is anything higher than the videos I have seen other classes do. The survivability was buffed because staff ele survivability was a joke before the patch. I just see a ton of whines and no real video showing exactly wtf is goin on
Excuse me? D/d ele survability was superior, the other specs lacked any good survability. The class has to trait into survability, but then it’s too strong. And yet, the celestial spec got buffed again instead of actually making some changes to the baseline, so ele would have more options than one.
Nonono, this is a misinterpretation of what happened to that amulet. It was not simply buffed, everyone lost stats gained from trait lines and the additional stats were added to compensate for that.
I main ele (have been for the last 1,5 years). Here’s my opinion after they introduced the patch.
After playing against other eles, using a medi guard and a shatter mesmer, what I find OP about eles is burning and the healing rate: which provides them amazing sustain.
D/D ele is not that tanky: just look at the stats. What makes it “tanky” is the signet (that’s used by the majority of players), the healing power, the “perma regen” from cantrips/water attunement and “perma vigor” also because of cantrips and sigil of energy (that most players also use because of evasive arcana).
Here’s what I think that should be changed:
My opinion based on being on the both sides of the fight is that they need to nerf burning (that affects all professions), and weapon sets that are not entirely designed for support should have their healing capabilities nerfed (for example: cleansing wave). This way we could justify the elementalist’s raw power+condition damage hybrid build that the celestial amulet provides, but without 3-4k healing from a single skill. I believe that a small change like this should be enough.
*GANDARA *
Flipping your camps since 2014 :3
Flipping your camps since 2014 :3
I main ele (have been for the last 1,5 years). Here’s my opinion after they introduced the patch.
After playing against other eles, using a medi guard and a shatter mesmer, what I find OP about eles is burning and the healing rate: which provides them amazing sustain.
D/D ele is not that tanky: just look at the stats. What makes it “tanky” is the signet (that’s used by the majority of players), the healing power, the “perma regen” from cantrips/water attunement and “perma vigor” also because of cantrips and sigil of energy (that most players also use because of evasive arcana).
Here’s what I think that should be changed:
My opinion based on being on the both sides of the fight is that they need to nerf burning (that affects all professions), and weapon sets that are not entirely designed for support should have their healing capabilities nerfed (for example: cleansing wave). This way we could justify the elementalist’s raw power+condition damage hybrid build that the celestial amulet provides, but without 3-4k healing from a single skill. I believe that a small change like this should be enough.
I agree with the burning remark, but I don’t know if cleansing wave on off hand dagger really needs to be touched and this is why. Any Elementalist trying to utilize d/d for serious play is usually going to want to run fire/water/arcana. You lose out on the perma protection earth provides, the earth line isn’t very good to take over water for d/d. If you nerf off hand dagger you’ll probably just force more Elementalists into taking the focus offhand weapon, forcing everyone who plays that class back into another full on bunker meta. Honestly I find the defense on d/d with its current ideal build to be just fine, its strong in 1v1 with blinding ashes but you’ll go down pretty easily when you’re focused in an spvp match.
(edited by Grimreaper.5370)
Re read what I said I didnt say eles dmg is crap.
Sorry, I missed that. But what do you expect? Spec into defensive trait lines and be able to do insane damage? It’s not like ele is underpowered, it definitely has some stuff that could use some nerfs/changes.
I do not expect anything of the sort. If anything needs to be reworked its burning across the board before we decide how to tone down the class.
It’s not only burning. I really don’t know what to tell you if you cannot realize what strong traits ele has. I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t want my class to be easy mode just because it provides some traits with complete or partial passive play that rewards you too much for basically no input from you.
Once again you are overlooking what I am saying. Balance takes time, and we should proceed with changes one step at a time so the Elementalist doesn’t once again become fodder.
I do not think the damage by an ele is anything higher than the videos I have seen other classes do. The survivability was buffed because staff ele survivability was a joke before the patch. I just see a ton of whines and no real video showing exactly wtf is goin on
Excuse me? D/d ele survability was superior, the other specs lacked any good survability. The class has to trait into survability, but then it’s too strong. And yet, the celestial spec got buffed again instead of actually making some changes to the baseline, so ele would have more options than one.
Nonono, this is a misinterpretation of what happened to that amulet. It was not simply buffed, everyone lost stats gained from trait lines and the additional stats were added to compensate for that.
I’m not talking about the amulet at all.
Don’t know if you deserve a cage or an award at this point Rosicky.
I’m up for the cage.
As for ele, I honestly think this has lots to do with burning, which needs to be fixed. Also, the fire line adds 150 power in each attunement + 150 in fire, that needs to be fixed, too. Not fan of Blinding Ashes either, don’t like traits like this, same goes for Diamond skin and Stone heart, they provide quite too much sustain for the ele. However, at this state I’m not even mad since there’s just too much damage around.
I don’t know how to feel about people saying s/f fresh air ele is the best spec atm. Like really.
Honestly, I agree. I think burning is the main culprit atm, and if it isn’t let us start with that first, then the rest will be obvious.
EDIT: That isn’t to say it will fix everything, I just think a large part of the issue on a lot of classes right now is in fact how much damage burning can do.
MORE BEARDS OR RIOT
I do not think the damage by an ele is anything higher than the videos I have seen other classes do. The survivability was buffed because staff ele survivability was a joke before the patch. I just see a ton of whines and no real video showing exactly wtf is goin on
Excuse me? D/d ele survability was superior, the other specs lacked any good survability. The class has to trait into survability, but then it’s too strong. And yet, the celestial spec got buffed again instead of actually making some changes to the baseline, so ele would have more options than one.
Nonono, this is a misinterpretation of what happened to that amulet. It was not simply buffed, everyone lost stats gained from trait lines and the additional stats were added to compensate for that.
I’m not talking about the amulet at all.
“And yet, the celestial spec got buffed again instead of actually making some changes to the baseline”
“I’m not talking about the amulet at all”
Looks like you are complaining about celestial stats to me. Celestial stats are balanced, perhaps you should have just mentioned traits?
I do not think the damage by an ele is anything higher than the videos I have seen other classes do. The survivability was buffed because staff ele survivability was a joke before the patch. I just see a ton of whines and no real video showing exactly wtf is goin on
Excuse me? D/d ele survability was superior, the other specs lacked any good survability. The class has to trait into survability, but then it’s too strong. And yet, the celestial spec got buffed again instead of actually making some changes to the baseline, so ele would have more options than one.
Nonono, this is a misinterpretation of what happened to that amulet. It was not simply buffed, everyone lost stats gained from trait lines and the additional stats were added to compensate for that.
I’m not talking about the amulet at all.
“And yet, the celestial spec got buffed again instead of actually making some changes to the baseline”
“I’m not talking about the amulet at all”Looks like you are complaining about celestial stats to me. Celestial stats are balanced, perhaps you should have just mentioned traits?
Ok, look. Celestial d/d ele was good before the patch, survability was great, damage was okay. By the buffs ele got, celestial ele gained the most. Now it has free EA, whole earth line with powerful traits or fire line with crazy damage. Both survability and damage of the specs got a nice boost. If you look at fresh air, it didn’t really gain that much, condi ele actually saw some nerfs. So out of all these specs cele ele got the most out of it.
I do not think the damage by an ele is anything higher than the videos I have seen other classes do. The survivability was buffed because staff ele survivability was a joke before the patch. I just see a ton of whines and no real video showing exactly wtf is goin on
Excuse me? D/d ele survability was superior, the other specs lacked any good survability. The class has to trait into survability, but then it’s too strong. And yet, the celestial spec got buffed again instead of actually making some changes to the baseline, so ele would have more options than one.
Nonono, this is a misinterpretation of what happened to that amulet. It was not simply buffed, everyone lost stats gained from trait lines and the additional stats were added to compensate for that.
I’m not talking about the amulet at all.
“And yet, the celestial spec got buffed again instead of actually making some changes to the baseline”
“I’m not talking about the amulet at all”Looks like you are complaining about celestial stats to me. Celestial stats are balanced, perhaps you should have just mentioned traits?
Ok, look. Celestial d/d ele was good before the patch, survability was great, damage was okay. By the buffs ele got, celestial ele gained the most. Now it has free EA, whole earth line with powerful traits or fire line with crazy damage. Both survability and damage of the specs got a nice boost. If you look at fresh air, it didn’t really gain that much, condi ele actually saw some nerfs. So out of all these specs cele ele got the most out of it.
Assuming that Cele D/D being good is a bad thing, they should just fix the Air line, fix Scepter, tone down Burning in general. and give us Fire’s Embrace back in some way, shape, or form.
Additionally, it’d be nice to be able to move away more from Water/Arcana without dying so easily, but it looks like that wont happen and the Tempest is probably going to require Water/Arcana as well.
I do not think the damage by an ele is anything higher than the videos I have seen other classes do. The survivability was buffed because staff ele survivability was a joke before the patch. I just see a ton of whines and no real video showing exactly wtf is goin on
Excuse me? D/d ele survability was superior, the other specs lacked any good survability. The class has to trait into survability, but then it’s too strong. And yet, the celestial spec got buffed again instead of actually making some changes to the baseline, so ele would have more options than one.
Nonono, this is a misinterpretation of what happened to that amulet. It was not simply buffed, everyone lost stats gained from trait lines and the additional stats were added to compensate for that.
I’m not talking about the amulet at all.
“And yet, the celestial spec got buffed again instead of actually making some changes to the baseline”
“I’m not talking about the amulet at all”Looks like you are complaining about celestial stats to me. Celestial stats are balanced, perhaps you should have just mentioned traits?
Ok, look. Celestial d/d ele was good before the patch, survability was great, damage was okay. By the buffs ele got, celestial ele gained the most. Now it has free EA, whole earth line with powerful traits or fire line with crazy damage. Both survability and damage of the specs got a nice boost. If you look at fresh air, it didn’t really gain that much, condi ele actually saw some nerfs. So out of all these specs cele ele got the most out of it.
Assuming that Cele D/D being good is a bad thing, they should just fix the Air line, fix Scepter, tone down Burning in general. and give us Fire’s Embrace back in some way, shape, or form.
Additionally, it’d be nice to be able to move away more from Water/Arcana without dying so easily, but it looks like that wont happen and the Tempest is probably going to require Water/Arcana as well.
Never said it’s a bad thing, I said cele ele didn’t really need a buff aside gaining a bit more teamsupport. But that doesn’t change the fact it has access to some strong traits that should be looked at and eventually reworked.
Assuming that Cele D/D being good is a bad thing, they should just fix the Air line, fix Scepter, tone down Burning in general. and give us Fire’s Embrace back in some way, shape, or form.
Additionally, it’d be nice to be able to move away more from Water/Arcana without dying so easily, but it looks like that wont happen and the Tempest is probably going to require Water/Arcana as well.
Never said it’s a bad thing, I said cele ele didn’t really need a buff aside gaining a bit more teamsupport. But that doesn’t change the fact it has access to some strong traits that should be looked at and eventually reworked. [/quote]
Well, from a lot of posts it seems like you view Cele D/D as a bad thing. Right now Cele Ele is one of the more powerful builds because it balances out offense and defense so well. Burning is a little too strong, but that’s not an issue unique to Elementalists.
Having access to Stone Heart and Diamond Skin is also not a direct issue with Cele Ele, but rather the traits themselves. In particular, Stone Heart is fine. Camping is discouraged due to crap Earth skills(in terms of Offense) and switching to avoid burst is actually promotes active play.
Diamond Skin is awful design and should be reworked somehow.
I really think the issue is how weak the sustain in other lines is, forcing us into Water, while the damage in Air is really lacking right now. Fire finally feels like a proper line(or close to it), but the current Burn issue makes it seem like an issue to some.
Scepter is just kinda bad, and we lack any natural defense outside of Focus, so no wonder everyone is flocking to D/F right now.
What Ele needs is those fixes and a new mainhand weapon.
I do not think the damage by an ele is anything higher than the videos I have seen other classes do. The survivability was buffed because staff ele survivability was a joke before the patch. I just see a ton of whines and no real video showing exactly wtf is goin on
Excuse me? D/d ele survability was superior, the other specs lacked any good survability. The class has to trait into survability, but then it’s too strong. And yet, the celestial spec got buffed again instead of actually making some changes to the baseline, so ele would have more options than one.
Nonono, this is a misinterpretation of what happened to that amulet. It was not simply buffed, everyone lost stats gained from trait lines and the additional stats were added to compensate for that.
I’m not talking about the amulet at all.
“And yet, the celestial spec got buffed again instead of actually making some changes to the baseline”
“I’m not talking about the amulet at all”Looks like you are complaining about celestial stats to me. Celestial stats are balanced, perhaps you should have just mentioned traits?
Ok, look. Celestial d/d ele was good before the patch, survability was great, damage was okay. By the buffs ele got, celestial ele gained the most. Now it has free EA, whole earth line with powerful traits or fire line with crazy damage. Both survability and damage of the specs got a nice boost. If you look at fresh air, it didn’t really gain that much, condi ele actually saw some nerfs. So out of all these specs cele ele got the most out of it.
Bolded the quote from you. You complained about the lack of having EA in the build (having to choose between one of them)
That’s you complaining about it. Now you get it, you complain about it? You’re focused on the wrong things. You want to nerf cele ammy (yes, you complained about it as grimreaper pointed out). Have you actually tried pvping or dueling on marauders amulet? The traitlines no longer give healing power, so playing a zerk ele has pretty much no sustain, especially in 1 v 2. You’ll just get instantly bursted by a good player. Celestial is pretty much our only option at this point with all of the power creep, so no…Leave the amulet alone. Burning needs to be scaled down per stack. Right now the amount is just simply too high especially with the might stacking capabilities of eles. And I saw your nerf suggestions. It was kittened as hell.
Stone heart promotes passive play? You have to actively time when to go into earth and then burst accordingly. See a stealthed mirror blade headed towards you which means an incoming shatter…swap to earth. No good ele will just sit in earth and a GOOD ELE would actively time it. So it would reward the ele who times it optimally over an ele who just rotates randomly and not realizing some of the bursts he’s blocking…It’s an active defensive trait…Leave it as it is. As for diamond skin, I do agree with warlord sikari on it (ronpierce) about the suggested changes. Blinding ashes IS the true definition of passive play/defense…So at least you got that right…They need to raise the icd to 10 secs or 12. Right now, it really screws with thieves. It’s a 100% hard counter assuming both players are equally skilled especially if the ele uses flame legion runes. I also tested with my guildie yesterday who’s actually another skilled ele…I got on my ranger and I had a theory that even with a zerker amulet (me using it), I wouldn’t even be able to kill him with him not even fighting back. My theory was correct. I spent 5 minutes trying to get him to 0 health while he forced me to heal a a bunch of times because of the blinding ashes + burn procs. He just walked around healing and rotating protection. So I think soothing ice needs to be adjusted a bit. As of now, it’s a perma protection build. So even if I out played him on ranger, I wouldn’t be able to kill him anyways if he just rotated properly. It’s the traits that needs the rework. And you’re focusing on the wrong ones. Stone heart is passive? PUHLEASE. Soothing ice, blinding ashes, and diamond skin are the top 3 for me that needs some adjustments along with burning damage. Then I think ele will be in the right spot. And if they trait into earth, their main role is to bunker. So you can’t complain if they bunker properly because that’s intended (assuming they make the adjustments as suggested). If they trait into fire, they can do a bit more of a burst while sacrificing some survivability. So I think that fits the role perfectly for each traitline.
(edited by Lettuce.2945)
I think it would be quite alright if blinding ashes had its icd increased to 8 or so seconds, I would even prefer blinding ashes only work with weapon or utility skills manually used, and I main an ele. In return it would be nice if they also made blinding ashes icd per target opposed to who ever you hit with x burn skill at that time.
(edited by Grimreaper.5370)
Bolded the quote from you. You complained about the lack of having EA in the build (having to choose between one of them)
That’s you complaining about it. Now you get it, you complain about it? You’re focused on the wrong things. You want to nerf cele ammy (yes, you complained about it as grimreaper pointed out). Have you actually tried pvping or dueling on marauders amulet? The traitlines no longer give healing power, so playing a zerk ele has pretty much no sustain, especially in 1 v 2. You’ll just get instantly bursted by a good player. Celestial is pretty much our only option at this point, so no…Leave the amulet alone. Burning needs to be scaled down per stack. Right now the amount is just simply too high especially with the might stacking capabilities of eles. And I saw your nerf suggestions. It was kittened as hell.
Stone heart promotes passive play? You have to actively time when to go into earth and then burst accordingly. See a stealthed mirror blade headed towards you which means an incoming shatter…swap to earth. It’s an active defensive trait…Leave it as it is. As for diamond skin, I do agree with warlord sikari on it (ronpierce) about the suggested changes. Blinding ashes IS the true definition of passive play/defense…So at least you got that right…They need to raise the icd to 10 secs or 12. Right now, it really screws with thieves. It’s a 100% hard counter assuming both players are equally skilled especially if the ele uses flame legion runes. I also tested with my guildie yesterday who’s actually another skilled ele…I got on my ranger and I had a theory that even with a zerker amulet (me using it), I wouldn’t even be able to kill him with him not even fighting back. My theory was correct. I spent 5 minutes trying to get him to 0 health while he forced me to heal a a bunch of times because of the blinding ashes + burn procs. He just walked around healing and rotating protection. So I think soothing ice needs to be adjusted a bit. As of now, it’s a perma protection build. So even if I out played him on ranger, I wouldn’t be able to kill him if he just rotated properly. It’s the traits that needs the rework. And you’re focusing on the wrong ones. Stone heart is passive? PUHLEASE. Soothing ice, blinding ashes, and diamond skin are the top 3 for me that needs some adjustments along with burning damage. Then I think ele will be in the right spot.
I believe that Elemental Attunement is crucial for the class and should be a baseline, so there would be a bit higher build diversity. I never said that I think it’s bad that EA is a minor trait now even though it still forced eles into Arcana, so stop putting words in my mouth. On the other hand having full earth line with traits like Diamond skin and Stone heart seems a bit too much to me. Again, I never complained about the amulet istelf, stop implying I did. No, I actually played zerker instead of marauder, since I felt like my damage wasn’t where I wanted it to be.
Yes, it’s pretty well known most people will defend their class without even rationally thinking about why it might be too strong. I do not want to play class, that’s broken, so sorry if I insulted you with the fact I thought about what could be too powerful.
Again, we can argue how much swaping to earth is an active play, it’s not really that much. You can benefit from the trait despite playing badly, so it’s definitely not a fully active defense. Lots of the damage comes from air + fire and ele will be immune to this in earth, which is quite strong. Even a bot could swap to earth and just avoid this altogether.
Diamond skin is a completely passive trait that requires completely nothing and counters all condition builds. Blinding ashes actually can at least reward a skilled play, unlike Diamond skin.
There is a difference between passive traits and passive traits that are way too powerful. So thanks for your opinion, I’ll keep thinking what I’ve been thinking till now.
Bolded the quote from you. You complained about the lack of having EA in the build (having to choose between one of them)
That’s you complaining about it. Now you get it, you complain about it? You’re focused on the wrong things. You want to nerf cele ammy (yes, you complained about it as grimreaper pointed out). Have you actually tried pvping or dueling on marauders amulet? The traitlines no longer give healing power, so playing a zerk ele has pretty much no sustain, especially in 1 v 2. You’ll just get instantly bursted by a good player. Celestial is pretty much our only option at this point, so no…Leave the amulet alone. Burning needs to be scaled down per stack. Right now the amount is just simply too high especially with the might stacking capabilities of eles. And I saw your nerf suggestions. It was kittened as hell.
Stone heart promotes passive play? You have to actively time when to go into earth and then burst accordingly. See a stealthed mirror blade headed towards you which means an incoming shatter…swap to earth. It’s an active defensive trait…Leave it as it is. As for diamond skin, I do agree with warlord sikari on it (ronpierce) about the suggested changes. Blinding ashes IS the true definition of passive play/defense…So at least you got that right…They need to raise the icd to 10 secs or 12. Right now, it really screws with thieves. It’s a 100% hard counter assuming both players are equally skilled especially if the ele uses flame legion runes. I also tested with my guildie yesterday who’s actually another skilled ele…I got on my ranger and I had a theory that even with a zerker amulet (me using it), I wouldn’t even be able to kill him with him not even fighting back. My theory was correct. I spent 5 minutes trying to get him to 0 health while he forced me to heal a a bunch of times because of the blinding ashes + burn procs. He just walked around healing and rotating protection. So I think soothing ice needs to be adjusted a bit. As of now, it’s a perma protection build. So even if I out played him on ranger, I wouldn’t be able to kill him if he just rotated properly. It’s the traits that needs the rework. And you’re focusing on the wrong ones. Stone heart is passive? PUHLEASE. Soothing ice, blinding ashes, and diamond skin are the top 3 for me that needs some adjustments along with burning damage. Then I think ele will be in the right spot.
I believe that Elemental Attunement is crucial for the class and should be a baseline, so there would be a bit higher build diversity. I never said that I think it’s bad that EA is a minor trait now even though it still forced eles into Arcana, so stop putting words in my mouth. On the other hand having full earth line with traits like Diamond skin and Stone heart seems a bit too much to me. Again, I never complained about the amulet istelf, stop implying I did. No, I actually played zerker instead of marauder, since I felt like my damage wasn’t where I wanted it to be.
Yes, it’s pretty well known most people will defend their class without even rationally thinking about why it might be too strong. I do not want to play class, that’s broken, so sorry if I insulted you with the fact I thought about what could be too powerful.
Again, we can argue how much swaping to earth is an active play, it’s not really that much. You can benefit from the trait despite playing badly, so it’s definitely not a fully active defense. Lots of the damage comes from air + fire and ele will be immune to this in earth, which is quite strong. Even a bot could swap to earth and just avoid this altogether.
Diamond skin is a completely passive trait that requires completely nothing and counters all condition builds. Blinding ashes actually can at least reward a skilled play, unlike Diamond skin.
There is a difference between passive traits and passive traits that are way too powerful. So thanks for your opinion, I’ll keep thinking what I’ve been thinking till now.
An Elementalist is almost always going to swap into earth right after fire if they’re playing d/d or d/f, I’m assuming you know this? I’m assuming you don’t think Stone Heart with scepter is an issue since I believe I’ve heard you say somewhere that scepter is crap. If you’re trying to burst them right after they lay down fire fields and know they’re running stone heart well… That sounds like a L2P issue.
BTW how many eles do you even run into who use Stone Heart? I’m sure you’ll say “a lot” but from my experience its almost never seen.
(edited by Grimreaper.5370)
Still think we should get OP a unique title on here called “Double OP”
with all of his/her threads about classes
Former PvP Forum Specialist
2015-2016
Fort Aspenwood
2015-2016
Fort Aspenwood
-snip-
How can you benefit from stone heart if you play badly? Lol you’ve missed the ball in a majestic way now, if you play badly against a skilled opponent, you just get bursted down once you’re forced to leave earth. It really all depends on the kind of opponents you face..yes against hotjoiners stone heart will surely appear OP.
Stone heart is not a passive trait at all, rather who is passive is the opponent!, Time to learn attunement animation and recognize the fact that ele cannot camp earth so stop your mindless rampage and start apply some condi pressure of sort, save your big burst for when ele leaves earth.
I play war/ranger on top of ele and can recognize the stone heart icon clearly as the sun, I just call target or apply some condi pressure, soon the ele leaves earth to restore HP and bam I attack!
To complain about stone heart is L2P issue because ele is simply buying time in earth, he can’t do great dmg or heal..be patient with your mindless spam
-edit- For as long as stealth camping exist, stealth burst, OP one shot skills with no tell; there will be no reasonable complain against traits like stone heart.
L2P just like I need to in order to win against stealth burst BS and similar, have a nice day
(edited by Supreme.3164)
Still think we should get OP a unique title on here called “Double OP”
with all of his/her threads about classes
The question is..“why this is allowed?”
I thought that threads created for the sake of complaining were against the code of conduct, did the rule got changed?
An Elementalist is almost always going to swap into earth right after fire if they’re playing d/d or d/f, I’m assuming you know this? I’m assuming you don’t think Stone Heart with scepter is an issue since I believe I’ve heard you say somewhere that scepter is crap. If you’re trying to burst them right after they lay down fire fields and know they’re running stone heart well… That sounds like a L2P issue.
BTW how many eles do you even run into who use Stone Heart? I’m sure you’ll say “a lot” but from my experience its almost never seen.
How did you go from me saying that I think the trait is too strong while not requiring much to that I have issues with d/d eles? Funny. I’ve never seen an ele with scepter having Stone heart, what does that have to do with it? I don’t have the numbers, sorry, but usually celestial eles either run earth or fire.
-snip-
How can you benefit from stone heart if you play badly? Lol you’ve missed the ball in a majestic way now, if you play badly against a skilled opponent, you just get bursted down once you’re forced to leave earth. It really all depends on the kind of opponents you face..yes against hotjoiners stone heart will surely appear OP.
Stone heart is not a passive trait at all, rather who is passive is the opponent!, Time to learn attunement animation and recognize the fact that ele cannot camp earth so stop your mindless rampage and start apply some condi pressure of sort, save your big burst for when ele leaves earth.
I play war/ranger on top of ele and can recognize the stone heart icon clearly as the sun, I just call target or apply some condi pressure, soon the ele leaves earth to restore HP and bam I attack!
To complain about stone heart is L2P issue because ele is simply buying time in earth, he can’t do great dmg or heal..be patient with your mindless spam
-edit- For as long as stealth camping exist, stealth burst, OP one shot skills with no tell; there will be no reasonable complain against traits like stone heart.
L2P just like I need to in order to win against stealth burst BS and similar, have a nice day
I don’t know maybe because even monkey would swap to earth from time to time? You can prevent burst even without knowing it just from pure luck. Saying Stone heart is fully active trait is just ridiculous.
-snip-
How can you benefit from stone heart if you play badly? Lol you’ve missed the ball in a majestic way now, if you play badly against a skilled opponent, you just get bursted down once you’re forced to leave earth. It really all depends on the kind of opponents you face..yes against hotjoiners stone heart will surely appear OP.
Stone heart is not a passive trait at all, rather who is passive is the opponent!, Time to learn attunement animation and recognize the fact that ele cannot camp earth so stop your mindless rampage and start apply some condi pressure of sort, save your big burst for when ele leaves earth.
I play war/ranger on top of ele and can recognize the stone heart icon clearly as the sun, I just call target or apply some condi pressure, soon the ele leaves earth to restore HP and bam I attack!
To complain about stone heart is L2P issue because ele is simply buying time in earth, he can’t do great dmg or heal..be patient with your mindless spam
-edit- For as long as stealth camping exist, stealth burst, OP one shot skills with no tell; there will be no reasonable complain against traits like stone heart.
L2P just like I need to in order to win against stealth burst BS and similar, have a nice dayI don’t know maybe because even monkey would swap to earth from time to time? You can prevent burst even without knowing it just from pure luck. Saying Stone heart is fully active trait is just ridiculous.
If you lose to a monkey swapping attunement randomly..dunno what that makes you really! The fact is the opponent is simply unloading his/her burst like nobody business and they have no clue about their intended target.
How on earth you can suggest that a monkey unloading his/her burst on every red dot, should be rewarded…it’s behind me
To suggest that the ele is cluelessly changing attunements…like who are you to say? To me it seems like you’re the one spamming and then call it luck when somebody counter you….proud much?..don’t get blinded by your internet proudness
-snip-
How can you benefit from stone heart if you play badly? Lol you’ve missed the ball in a majestic way now, if you play badly against a skilled opponent, you just get bursted down once you’re forced to leave earth. It really all depends on the kind of opponents you face..yes against hotjoiners stone heart will surely appear OP.
Stone heart is not a passive trait at all, rather who is passive is the opponent!, Time to learn attunement animation and recognize the fact that ele cannot camp earth so stop your mindless rampage and start apply some condi pressure of sort, save your big burst for when ele leaves earth.
I play war/ranger on top of ele and can recognize the stone heart icon clearly as the sun, I just call target or apply some condi pressure, soon the ele leaves earth to restore HP and bam I attack!
To complain about stone heart is L2P issue because ele is simply buying time in earth, he can’t do great dmg or heal..be patient with your mindless spam
-edit- For as long as stealth camping exist, stealth burst, OP one shot skills with no tell; there will be no reasonable complain against traits like stone heart.
L2P just like I need to in order to win against stealth burst BS and similar, have a nice dayI don’t know maybe because even monkey would swap to earth from time to time? You can prevent burst even without knowing it just from pure luck. Saying Stone heart is fully active trait is just ridiculous.
Oh no, what will you ever do about having to plan out when to burst a target every now and then. smh… Looks like you will have to just mindlessly hope your burst lands.
Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine. And who said I was defending eles? Did I or did I not suggest a couple nerfs and did I not use my ranger as an example to how OP ele is and how OP blinding ashes was? I fought that same thief on his ele on my ranger and he didn’t fight back for the full 5 minutes while in blinding ashes…And I couldn’t kill him as a zerk ranger. My dps wasn’t even enough. The perma protection rotations and the blinds and the burns. Hell, even when he did nothing, he forced me to heal a couple times because he got me to HALF HP DOING NOTHING. LITERALLY NOTHING.
At this point, I just feel like you’re just someone who wants to argue/complain for the sake of arguing. You suggest no constructive feedbacks that is based on logic and skilled gameplay. You seem like an average amateur ele that only understands how the trait works but not how to play one properly. A know it all that knows nothing. Ironic, no? And you keep glancing over what grim and I are saying. Here’s an idea.
READ WHAT WE ACTUALLY SAY and stop saying we’re defending our classes. We’re actually discussing a couple ways to nerf eles without nerfing it into oblivion which is what you’re trying to do right now with your baseless assumptions and criticisms which is clearly evident from your suggestion to nerf stone heart which is RARELY USED. Leave the discussion to the pro eles, please, k? K.
(edited by Lettuce.2945)
An Elementalist is almost always going to swap into earth right after fire if they’re playing d/d or d/f, I’m assuming you know this? I’m assuming you don’t think Stone Heart with scepter is an issue since I believe I’ve heard you say somewhere that scepter is crap. If you’re trying to burst them right after they lay down fire fields and know they’re running stone heart well… That sounds like a L2P issue.
BTW how many eles do you even run into who use Stone Heart? I’m sure you’ll say “a lot” but from my experience its almost never seen.
How did you go from me saying that I think the trait is too strong while not requiring much to that I have issues with d/d eles? Funny. I’ve never seen an ele with scepter having Stone heart, what does that have to do with it? I don’t have the numbers, sorry, but usually celestial eles either run earth or fire.
So what, are you implying that staff elementalists using stone heart are owning you? What kind of build with Stone Heart in mind owned you which brought you to the forums to cry nerf, tell me… I was eliminating scepter users from the debate, Laraderp. I assumed you had no problem with stone heart in combination with the scepter weapon. Based on allll the different things I’ve seen you cry nerf about I think it was a safe assumption to assume you get salty when playing vs a d/d or d/f Elementalist. You need to bring logic to the table when discussing potential balance changes, stop trying to cover your bum when you’ve made an obvious mistake and just accept that part of your issues are L2P ones.
Now I’m not saying I don’t think you raise valid points Laraley, here is where I and probably the majority of anyone who really cares about balance/esports will agree with you:
-Passive play should not be promoted ( down with the RNG procs)
-Burns need to be reworked in some shape or form
-Diamond skin is a terrible idea for a trait.
-Empowering flame is bugged, should be fixed.
Now instead of crying about every and anything that you can think of, consider that balance changes in order to bring BALANCE take time and must be approached one step at a time. If Anet nerfed EVERY aspect of the game you wanted to see nerfed right now many classes would fall out of place becoming completely irrelevant to play.
I think its a safe bet to assume the burning condition is a little over the top so lets start with balancing this and then figure out how to further improve balance.
(edited by Grimreaper.5370)
Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine.
But all the countless passive thief procs are fine? Please stop your crusade to get ele nerfed when the meta hasn’t even settles, it’s really annoying. Thief has SO MANY passives, compared to eles that have only a handful.
Haste proc on autoattacks? Check. Do ALL THE THINGS when using steal? Check. Thief list of passive traits is almost endless, like it is for most other classes.
And I’m sorry but if a thief gets hard countered by a single blind every 5+ seconds that thief might not be as good as he and you think he is. Blinding Ashes is actually a really underpowered trait.
Last of the Red Hot Swamis
(edited by SchmendrickTheMagician.8247)
Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine.
But all the countless passive thief procs are fine? Please stop your crusade to get ele nerfed when the meta hasn’t even settles, it’s really annoying. Thief has SO MANY passives, compared to eles that have only a handful.
Haste proc on autoattacks? Check. Do ALL THE THINGS when using steal? Check. Thief list of passive traits is almost endless, like it is for most other classes.
His main issue is when fighting an Elementalist in a 1v1 sitation blinding ashes becomes so powerful of a counter he’s almost rendered useless when playing his thief. Which IMO is incredibly underwhelming since I’d prefer every class had a shot at beating X class.
The blinding ashes trait it self is actually just as active as stone heart for example (thought I’d throw that in there since Stone Hearts been a good majority of this debate), but when you throw in random burn procs and fire shield well… it becomes sort of brainless.
(edited by Grimreaper.5370)
Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine.
But all the countless passive thief procs are fine? Please stop your crusade to get ele nerfed when the meta hasn’t even settles, it’s really annoying. Thief has SO MANY passives, compared to eles that have only a handful.
Haste proc on autoattacks? Check. Do ALL THE THINGS when using steal? Check. Thief list of passive traits is almost endless, like it is for most other classes.
I main an ele. Thief is my 2nd class. Yes, thief is rng. But right now, eles and mesmers are too strong compared to the rest of the meta. This is coming from a high level pvp standpoint. Thief is probably around 4th at the moment in the current meta standings. Try playing a flame legion cele ele with 1 1 3 in fire line and you’ll just see that it’s as rng as thief is at the moment but hard counters thieves. Thieves should at least be able to dps the ele, so should a ranger. When an ele doesn’t fight back vs a ranger for 5 minutes and actually forces said ranger to heal every 30 secs or so…You cannot tell me this is balanced. I literally can’t beat the ele as a ranger even if i played so optimally. The dps just isn’t there even as zerk.
(edited by Lettuce.2945)
Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine.
But all the countless passive thief procs are fine? Please stop your crusade to get ele nerfed when the meta hasn’t even settles, it’s really annoying. Thief has SO MANY passives, compared to eles that have only a handful.
Haste proc on autoattacks? Check. Do ALL THE THINGS when using steal? Check. Thief list of passive traits is almost endless, like it is for most other classes.
His main issue is when fighting an Elementalist in a 1v1 sitation blinding ashes becomes so powerful of a counter he’s almost rendered useless when playing his thief. Which IMO is incredibly underwhelming since I’d prefer every class had a shot at beating X class.
The blinding ashes trait it self is actually just as active as stone heart, but when you throw in random burn procs and fire shield well… it becomes sort of brainless.
As I’ve edited in my previous post, if you can’t deal with a single blind every 5+ seconds this is clearly a learn to play issue. Maybe use some condition removal instead of ALL THE BURST UTILITIES. Maybe autoattack to lose the blind, maybe use the stealth-removes-condition-trait. Thieves have COUNTLESS ways to deal with blind.
And there’s other classes that can spam way more blinds than an ele with burning ashes – an actually pretty underpowered trait.
Last of the Red Hot Swamis
Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine.
But all the countless passive thief procs are fine? Please stop your crusade to get ele nerfed when the meta hasn’t even settles, it’s really annoying. Thief has SO MANY passives, compared to eles that have only a handful.
Haste proc on autoattacks? Check. Do ALL THE THINGS when using steal? Check. Thief list of passive traits is almost endless, like it is for most other classes.
I main an ele. Thief is my 2nd class. Yes, thief is rng. But right now, eles and mesmers are too strong compared to the rest of the meta. This is coming from a high level pvp standpoint. Thief is probably around 4th at the moment in the current meta standings.
You cannot judge ele when burning is currently overpowered for everyone. Same as you cannot judge engi balance as long as the grenade bug is still in.
The same crusade you’re now on happened shortly after release in the berzerker meta, when people simply didn’t know how to fight eles, and the meta hadn’t even settled. What happened was that eles were taken out of the game for more than a year. People were flaming you for even having the guts to play an ele in PVP because they were so bad then.
Let the meta settle, let people find different builds, and probably most importantly: let Arenanet deal with condition scaling first.
It’s been showing time and time again that not only doesn’t Anet really understand ele balance, but also that very tiny changes can take eles from being completely unviable to dominating the meta.
Last of the Red Hot Swamis
(edited by SchmendrickTheMagician.8247)
Wow, you guys amaze me.
First of all, I didn’t suggest the nerf because I lost to a stone heart ele, but simply because I think it’s too strong. Apparently that’s just way too difficult for you to understand. I wasn’t crying about anything, I was simply stating my opinion. You are the ones insulting me for it. I’m sorry but I don’t think that swaping to earth is a skilled play. With stone heart, on top of that protection and if you position yourself well also with Geomancer’s defense and there you go, you’ll be taking very little damage. All that comes from just pressing one button and moving yourself. The reason this trait is partially passive is the fact every average ele will learn the basic rotations and then perform them, going to earth included. Now this average ele will have 33% damage reduction and no critical hits incoming just because he managed to swap to earth. Great job, so skilled. While he might not getting bursted down, there most likely will be damage prevented without him even realizing it.
Second of all, I’m not crying about anything, I’m simply stating what I think. I haven’t figured out it’s such an issue for people like you, I apologize. I suggest no reading what I say if it makes you so mad.
Third of all, I didn’t do any mistake. That’s just you assuming I had to lose to a d/d ele with Stone heart to think it’s too strong. Well, newsflash. People have different opinions, you might as well accept that. No one owned me, now it might be a shocking for you, but I actually made my own opinion. I understand that’s very difficult concept for you to understand, but yeah it happens, sorry.
@Lettuce: It think it’s quite hilarious you call yourself a pro ele, when you snaped on me saying I do not know how a trait works when in fact it was you not knowing how it works currently, arguing and saying you even tested it and still didn’t know it’s bugged. Made my day.
After all, there’s not a point in talking to any of you. All you do is calling me skilless without having any reason to do, just because my opinion differs from you, assuming things without even thinking why there was some things said. Well, enjoy doing that, I’m going to keep my opnion, I’m entitled to it.
The only thing I agree on is a Diamond Skin trait rework. There has been several suggestions about it that would add counterplay while still making the trait viable vs heavy condition classes. I vote for Resistance boon.
I think the Ele is fine everywhere else.. and this is coming from a class that usually gets hard countered by Ele’s in general.
aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine.
But all the countless passive thief procs are fine? Please stop your crusade to get ele nerfed when the meta hasn’t even settles, it’s really annoying. Thief has SO MANY passives, compared to eles that have only a handful.
Haste proc on autoattacks? Check. Do ALL THE THINGS when using steal? Check. Thief list of passive traits is almost endless, like it is for most other classes.
His main issue is when fighting an Elementalist in a 1v1 sitation blinding ashes becomes so powerful of a counter he’s almost rendered useless when playing his thief. Which IMO is incredibly underwhelming since I’d prefer every class had a shot at beating X class.
The blinding ashes trait it self is actually just as active as stone heart, but when you throw in random burn procs and fire shield well… it becomes sort of brainless.
As I’ve edited in my previous post, if you can’t deal with a single blind every 5+ seconds this is clearly a learn to play issue. Maybe use some condition removal instead of ALL THE BURST UTILITIES. Maybe autoattack to lose the blind, maybe use the stealth-removes-condition-trait. Thieves have COUNTLESS ways to deal with blind.
And there’s other classes that can spam way more blinds than an ele with burning ashes – an actually pretty underpowered trait.
Shadow’s embrace got nerfed. It no longer removes blinds. So let’s say, a thief decides to steal + backstab, and he gets blinded, the backstab misses so does the mug because of the blind proc from BA and flame legion. So when mug misses, he can’t leech health. Or let’s say a thief pops basil venom then goes in stealth but ele blinds him, he has to either wait out the long blind, allowing the ele to regain cooldowns…or miss a basil proc intentionally to remove blinds. Thieves don’t have countless ways to deal with blind. They have 2. That’s to intentionally hit them and miss or wait it out. Again, this is from a high level pvp standpoint. So keep that in mind as you’re attempting to argue with me and grim. K? K.
Wow, you guys amaze me.
First of all, I didn’t suggest the nerf because I lost to a stone heart ele, but simply because I think it’s too strong. Apparently that’s just way too difficult for you to understand. I wasn’t crying about anything, I was simply stating my opinion. You are the ones insulting me for it. I’m sorry but I don’t think that swaping to earth is a skilled play. With stone heart, on top of that protection and if you position yourself well also with Geomancer’s defense and there you go, you’ll be taking very little damage. All that comes from just pressing one button and moving yourself. The reason this trait is partially passive is the fact every average ele will learn the basic rotations and then perform them, going to earth included. Now this average ele will have 33% damage reduction and no critical hits incoming just because he managed to swap to earth. Great job, so skilled. While he might not getting bursted down, there most likely will be damage prevented without him even realizing it.
Second of all, I’m not crying about anything, I’m simply stating what I think. I haven’t figured out it’s such an issue for people like you, I apologize. I suggest no reading what I say if it makes you so mad.
Third of all, I didn’t do any mistake. That’s just you assuming I had to lose to a d/d ele with Stone heart to think it’s too strong. Well, newsflash. People have different opinions, you might as well accept that. No one owned me, now it might be a shocking for you, but I actually made my own opinion. I understand that’s very difficult concept for you to understand, but yeah it happens, sorry.
@Lettuce: It think it’s quite hilarious you call yourself a pro ele, when you snaped on me saying I do not know how a trait works when in fact it was you not knowing how it works currently, arguing and saying you even tested it and still didn’t know it’s bugged. Made my day.
After all, there’s not a point in talking to any of you. All you do is calling me skilless without having any reason to do, just because my opinion differs from you, assuming things without even thinking why there was some things said. Well, enjoy doing that, I’m going to keep my opnion, I’m entitled to it.
I’ll gladly duel you. Do you accept?
Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine.
But all the countless passive thief procs are fine? Please stop your crusade to get ele nerfed when the meta hasn’t even settles, it’s really annoying. Thief has SO MANY passives, compared to eles that have only a handful.
Haste proc on autoattacks? Check. Do ALL THE THINGS when using steal? Check. Thief list of passive traits is almost endless, like it is for most other classes.
His main issue is when fighting an Elementalist in a 1v1 sitation blinding ashes becomes so powerful of a counter he’s almost rendered useless when playing his thief. Which IMO is incredibly underwhelming since I’d prefer every class had a shot at beating X class.
The blinding ashes trait it self is actually just as active as stone heart, but when you throw in random burn procs and fire shield well… it becomes sort of brainless.
As I’ve edited in my previous post, if you can’t deal with a single blind every 5+ seconds this is clearly a learn to play issue. Maybe use some condition removal instead of ALL THE BURST UTILITIES. Maybe autoattack to lose the blind, maybe use the stealth-removes-condition-trait. Thieves have COUNTLESS ways to deal with blind.
And there’s other classes that can spam way more blinds than an ele with burning ashes – an actually pretty underpowered trait.
I don’t really play a Thief but I’m under the impression the only way to remove a blind is with withdraw (if its traited) to remove 1 condition, and hope the blind was the condition removed. A thief isn’t going to want to attack you from stealth if they are blinded. Thieves only remove damaging conditions now with their stealth condition removal. Perhaps if withdraw removed 2 conditions when traited, blinding ashes wouldn’t be such an issue for thieves.
Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine.
But all the countless passive thief procs are fine? Please stop your crusade to get ele nerfed when the meta hasn’t even settles, it’s really annoying. Thief has SO MANY passives, compared to eles that have only a handful.
Haste proc on autoattacks? Check. Do ALL THE THINGS when using steal? Check. Thief list of passive traits is almost endless, like it is for most other classes.
His main issue is when fighting an Elementalist in a 1v1 sitation blinding ashes becomes so powerful of a counter he’s almost rendered useless when playing his thief. Which IMO is incredibly underwhelming since I’d prefer every class had a shot at beating X class.
The blinding ashes trait it self is actually just as active as stone heart, but when you throw in random burn procs and fire shield well… it becomes sort of brainless.
As I’ve edited in my previous post, if you can’t deal with a single blind every 5+ seconds this is clearly a learn to play issue. Maybe use some condition removal instead of ALL THE BURST UTILITIES. Maybe autoattack to lose the blind, maybe use the stealth-removes-condition-trait. Thieves have COUNTLESS ways to deal with blind.
And there’s other classes that can spam way more blinds than an ele with burning ashes – an actually pretty underpowered trait.
I don’t really play a Thief but I’m under the impression the only way to remove a blind is with withdraw (if its traited) to remove 1 condition, and hope the blind was the condition removed. A thief isn’t going to want to attack you from stealth if they are blinded. Thieves only remove damaging conditions now with their stealth condition removal. Perhaps if withdraw removed 2 conditions when traited, blinding ashes wouldn’t be such an issue for thieves.
They lose out boonstrip on steal if they trait for withdraw which is an issue versus eles. So sadly, it still wouldn’t work.
Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine.
But all the countless passive thief procs are fine? Please stop your crusade to get ele nerfed when the meta hasn’t even settles, it’s really annoying. Thief has SO MANY passives, compared to eles that have only a handful.
Haste proc on autoattacks? Check. Do ALL THE THINGS when using steal? Check. Thief list of passive traits is almost endless, like it is for most other classes.
I main an ele. Thief is my 2nd class. Yes, thief is rng. But right now, eles and mesmers are too strong compared to the rest of the meta. This is coming from a high level pvp standpoint. Thief is probably around 4th at the moment in the current meta standings. Try playing a flame legion cele ele with 1 1 3 in fire line and you’ll just see that it’s as rng as thief is at the moment but hard counters thieves. Thieves should at least be able to dps the ele, so should a ranger. When an ele doesn’t fight back vs a ranger for 5 minutes and actually forces said ranger to heal every 30 secs or so…You cannot tell me this is balanced. I literally can’t beat the ele as a ranger even if i played so optimally. The dps just isn’t there even as zerk.
You’re telling me that you’re fighting a bunker for 5m with a burst class on a point?…
Sorry where the high end pvp scenery starts? Thieves and rangers LB do exactly what they’re supposed to do and they do it well…ever heard about +1 fights?..guess you didn’t ‘cause you still go and 1vs1 a bunker at far for 5m, can’t believe that you’re still going with your baseless claims…
Ele doesn’t fight back for 5m? Thief can’t dps ele?..will you just stop with this absurd crap? Do you really expect anybody to take you seriously while you’re blowing things off like this?
Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine.
But all the countless passive thief procs are fine? Please stop your crusade to get ele nerfed when the meta hasn’t even settles, it’s really annoying. Thief has SO MANY passives, compared to eles that have only a handful.
Haste proc on autoattacks? Check. Do ALL THE THINGS when using steal? Check. Thief list of passive traits is almost endless, like it is for most other classes.
His main issue is when fighting an Elementalist in a 1v1 sitation blinding ashes becomes so powerful of a counter he’s almost rendered useless when playing his thief. Which IMO is incredibly underwhelming since I’d prefer every class had a shot at beating X class.
The blinding ashes trait it self is actually just as active as stone heart, but when you throw in random burn procs and fire shield well… it becomes sort of brainless.
As I’ve edited in my previous post, if you can’t deal with a single blind every 5+ seconds this is clearly a learn to play issue. Maybe use some condition removal instead of ALL THE BURST UTILITIES. Maybe autoattack to lose the blind, maybe use the stealth-removes-condition-trait. Thieves have COUNTLESS ways to deal with blind.
And there’s other classes that can spam way more blinds than an ele with burning ashes – an actually pretty underpowered trait.
Shadow’s embrace got nerfed. It no longer removes blinds. So let’s say, a thief decides to steal + backstab, and he gets blinded, the backstab misses so does the mug because of the blind proc from BA and flame legion. So when mug misses, he can’t leech health. Or let’s say a thief pops basil venom then goes in stealth but ele blinds him, he has to either wait out the long blind, allowing the ele to regain cooldowns…or miss a basil proc intentionally to remove blinds. Thieves don’t have countless ways to deal with blind. They have 2. That’s to intentionally hit them and miss or wait it out. Again, this is from a high level pvp standpoint. So keep that in mind as you’re attempting to argue with me and grim. K? K.
Of course we can’t have a game where thieves can’t kill everyone in 2 seconds straight right? It’s clear that you’re completely biased. And please stop with the “oh I’M PLAYING HIGH LEVEL PVP ALL YOU HEATHENS CANNOT JUDGE ME” because not only have you shown being straight up wrong by other players but it also makes all your arguments weaker.
So what if backstab gets countered by blinding ashes? How about you make a S/D build then. Fresh Air eles get super hard countered by any thief spec at all yet you don’t see them complaining about it. A single spec can’t OMFGOWN every other class and spec in the game. You’ll just have to deal with that.
Last of the Red Hot Swamis
I’ll gladly duel you. Do you accept?
This just shows how much you know about pvp in this game. The game isn’t and will never be balanced around 1v1 because IT IS A TEAM BASED GAME.
Edit: And the point of thieves in a 5v5 isn’t to KILL EVERYTHING IN SIGHT, it’s to +1 team fights but of course you would know that right? With all your high level pvp knowledge.
Last of the Red Hot Swamis
(edited by SchmendrickTheMagician.8247)
Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine.
But all the countless passive thief procs are fine? Please stop your crusade to get ele nerfed when the meta hasn’t even settles, it’s really annoying. Thief has SO MANY passives, compared to eles that have only a handful.
Haste proc on autoattacks? Check. Do ALL THE THINGS when using steal? Check. Thief list of passive traits is almost endless, like it is for most other classes.
I main an ele. Thief is my 2nd class. Yes, thief is rng. But right now, eles and mesmers are too strong compared to the rest of the meta. This is coming from a high level pvp standpoint. Thief is probably around 4th at the moment in the current meta standings. Try playing a flame legion cele ele with 1 1 3 in fire line and you’ll just see that it’s as rng as thief is at the moment but hard counters thieves. Thieves should at least be able to dps the ele, so should a ranger. When an ele doesn’t fight back vs a ranger for 5 minutes and actually forces said ranger to heal every 30 secs or so…You cannot tell me this is balanced. I literally can’t beat the ele as a ranger even if i played so optimally. The dps just isn’t there even as zerk.
You’re telling me that you’re fighting a bunker for 5m with a burst class on a point?…
Sorry where the high end pvp scenery starts? Thieves and rangers LB do exactly what they’re supposed to do and they do it well…ever heard about +1 fights?..guess you didn’t ‘cause you still go and 1vs1 a bunker at far for 5m, can’t believe that you’re still going with your baseless claims…Ele doesn’t fight back for 5m? Thief can’t dps ele?..will you just stop with this absurd crap? Do you really expect anybody to take you seriously while you’re blowing things off like this?
This is from a dueling standpoint. I’m a hardcore duelist. You’ve seen our servers quite often. We even held a gambling server a few times. When I say high end pvp, it’s from a skill standpoint. Perhaps you should have asked me to clarify before spewing garbage. Eles are even stronger in team fights. Did you or did you not watch the double ele abjured comp last ESL?
Blinding ashes isn’t skilled at all. It hard countered one of the best thieves on NA and I wasn’t even trying. When something is so effortless versus someone so skilled, then no…It’s not fine.
But all the countless passive thief procs are fine? Please stop your crusade to get ele nerfed when the meta hasn’t even settles, it’s really annoying. Thief has SO MANY passives, compared to eles that have only a handful.
Haste proc on autoattacks? Check. Do ALL THE THINGS when using steal? Check. Thief list of passive traits is almost endless, like it is for most other classes.
His main issue is when fighting an Elementalist in a 1v1 sitation blinding ashes becomes so powerful of a counter he’s almost rendered useless when playing his thief. Which IMO is incredibly underwhelming since I’d prefer every class had a shot at beating X class.
The blinding ashes trait it self is actually just as active as stone heart, but when you throw in random burn procs and fire shield well… it becomes sort of brainless.
As I’ve edited in my previous post, if you can’t deal with a single blind every 5+ seconds this is clearly a learn to play issue. Maybe use some condition removal instead of ALL THE BURST UTILITIES. Maybe autoattack to lose the blind, maybe use the stealth-removes-condition-trait. Thieves have COUNTLESS ways to deal with blind.
And there’s other classes that can spam way more blinds than an ele with burning ashes – an actually pretty underpowered trait.
Shadow’s embrace got nerfed. It no longer removes blinds. So let’s say, a thief decides to steal + backstab, and he gets blinded, the backstab misses so does the mug because of the blind proc from BA and flame legion. So when mug misses, he can’t leech health. Or let’s say a thief pops basil venom then goes in stealth but ele blinds him, he has to either wait out the long blind, allowing the ele to regain cooldowns…or miss a basil proc intentionally to remove blinds. Thieves don’t have countless ways to deal with blind. They have 2. That’s to intentionally hit them and miss or wait it out. Again, this is from a high level pvp standpoint. So keep that in mind as you’re attempting to argue with me and grim. K? K.
Of course we can’t have a game where thieves can’t kill everyone in 2 seconds straight right? It’s clear that you’re completely biased. And please stop with the “oh I’M PLAYING HIGH LEVEL PVP ALL YOU HEATHENS CANNOT JUDGE ME” because not only have you shown being straight up wrong by other players but it also makes all your arguments weaker.
So what if backstab gets countered by blinding ashes? How about you make a S/D build then. Fresh Air eles get super hard countered by any thief spec at all yet you don’t see them complaining about it. A single spec can’t OMFGOWN every other class and spec in the game. You’ll just have to deal with that.
I’m going to assume you’re average if you think I haven’t tried d/p s/d vs said ele build. And how many times do I have to say I main ele? Right now, eles can OMFGOWN every spec in this game or force a tie 1 v 1 wise. Ele is king.
I’ll gladly duel you. Do you accept?
This just shows how much you know about pvp in this game. Basically nothing. The game isn’t and will never be balanced around 1v1 because IT IS A TEAM BASED GAME.
Because no one 1v1’s on any node at any time during a match. Yea, lets not balance classes in this way at all…
aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
Wow, you guys amaze me.
First of all, I didn’t suggest the nerf because I lost to a stone heart ele, but simply because I think it’s too strong. Apparently that’s just way too difficult for you to understand. I wasn’t crying about anything, I was simply stating my opinion. You are the ones insulting me for it. I’m sorry but I don’t think that swaping to earth is a skilled play. With stone heart, on top of that protection and if you position yourself well also with Geomancer’s defense and there you go, you’ll be taking very little damage. All that comes from just pressing one button and moving yourself. The reason this trait is partially passive is the fact every average ele will learn the basic rotations and then perform them, going to earth included. Now this average ele will have 33% damage reduction and no critical hits incoming just because he managed to swap to earth. Great job, so skilled. While he might not getting bursted down, there most likely will be damage prevented without him even realizing it.
Second of all, I’m not crying about anything, I’m simply stating what I think. I haven’t figured out it’s such an issue for people like you, I apologize. I suggest no reading what I say if it makes you so mad.
Third of all, I didn’t do any mistake. That’s just you assuming I had to lose to a d/d ele with Stone heart to think it’s too strong. Well, newsflash. People have different opinions, you might as well accept that. No one owned me, now it might be a shocking for you, but I actually made my own opinion. I understand that’s very difficult concept for you to understand, but yeah it happens, sorry.
@Lettuce: It think it’s quite hilarious you call yourself a pro ele, when you snaped on me saying I do not know how a trait works when in fact it was you not knowing how it works currently, arguing and saying you even tested it and still didn’t know it’s bugged. Made my day.
After all, there’s not a point in talking to any of you. All you do is calling me skilless without having any reason to do, just because my opinion differs from you, assuming things without even thinking why there was some things said. Well, enjoy doing that, I’m going to keep my opnion, I’m entitled to it.
Okay so you are simply stating stone heart is OP on paper, you have no real evidence of it being an actual issue. This is not how balance changes should be approached, you need to provide solid evidence.
“The reason this trait is partially passive is the fact every average ele will learn the basic rotations and then perform them, going to earth included”
Don’t burst after fire fields.
(edited by Grimreaper.5370)