Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.
I have watched many elementalists on streams and on stream videos recently to just get more understanding on why they are so hard to kill and why they can have such an impact (might stacking, healing people, getting away, pushing far point, etc.).
My conclusion is that the s/d cantrip ele is just too forgiving. (I think the damage d/d ele isnt nearly as OP..very strong yes but its comparable to hgh engi or to shatter mesmer with portal imo).
I have watched these players and honestly they suck. But they never get punished for sucking. They never dodge illusionary leap, they activate armour or earth and then do churning earth vs necros, they waste their cc, they dont dodge any incoming cc themselves. And yet they still do so much for the team just because they are a cantrip ele.
This isnt fair. Why should they not get punished for missing dodges or running into stupid situations, or going to the wrong place (going far when they needed middle)? Every other class, including bunker guardians, gets punished for this.
The problem is cantrips and how they synergise with the traits. There needs to be some significant nerfing to this aspects of eles in the next patch. And perhaps some nerfing to the water skills on the scepter to reduce how much they heal for.
As well as taking no skill to survive as an ele it also takes no skill to do damage as an ele. You dont have to focus targets, in fact you don t have to look at the screen. You just get on a point and click a predefined rotation to stack might and do aoe damage to everything on the point. Then you heal on you and your allies with another basic rotations. There is almost no adapting to situations required to be effective as an ele.
Ele is way too easy to play and yet way too effective if played well. This could be changed at both ends by nerfing how cantrips synergise with the popular builds and can also be nerfed by reducing the heals on the scepter.
Why should EVERY other class be punished for missing dodges or for playing badly but an ele can just get away with it over and over again, whilst dishing out some strong damage too.
You just dont know when to stop do you.
try to play non-bunker ele, then talk… i bet all these eles on vids were S/D bunkers or D/D (semi)bunkers…
Apparently you never saw play an Ele s/d or d/d dps, you right with builds cantrips and bunker ele, that’s why i never play those builds(like you said, you can do xx mistakes and you can still be alive, this is just so annoying). But the fact is you are talking about “Ele Bunker”, wich isn’t the same with Ele Dps !
try to play non-bunker ele, then talk… i bet all these eles on vids were S/D bunkers or D/D (semi)bunkers…
True, there are worlds between Tank-Ele’s and non-tanky builds that are imho more UP than OP and very hard to play correctly.
I suggest the OP reads the forums a bit more before posting topics which have been discussed to death. Next time I will copy paste my arguments from my previous answers, as those have still not been answered.
As a last note: When a bunker Ele does 6k Firegrab, you have my persmission to cry!
You just dont know when to stop do you.
why should he ?
he’s perfectly right.
even ele damage is very high (comparable to a thief) by simply slotting a couple of arcane utilities while having valk ammo.
can still heal allies, he can still AoE evrything, he can do whatever a team needs and do it incredibly well.
’ not a “jack of all trades, master of anything” , it’s a master of everything. if you need a direct damage dealer there’s no point in bringing another class, unless you want condies.
We’re not allowed to say Elementalists have OP builds. They don’t like it when we say that. We shouldn’t offend them.
rolls eyes
I’ve been asking for a nerf to Cantrip builds for ages. They shouldn’t be able to cleanse conditions as much as they can (AoE Even), causing them to be practically immune to conditions.
(edited by TheMightyAltroll.3485)
I have watched many elementalists on streams and on stream videos recently to just get more understanding on why they are so hard to kill and why they can have such an impact (might stacking, healing people, getting away, pushing far point, etc.).
My conclusion is that the s/d cantrip ele is just too forgiving. (I think the damage d/d ele isnt nearly as OP..very strong yes but its comparable to hgh engi or to shatter mesmer with portal imo).
I have watched these players and honestly they suck. But they never get punished for sucking. They never dodge illusionary leap, they activate armour or earth and then do churning earth vs necros, they waste their cc, they dont dodge any incoming cc themselves. And yet they still do so much for the team just because they are a cantrip ele.
This isnt fair. Why should they not get punished for missing dodges or running into stupid situations, or going to the wrong place (going far when they needed middle)? Every other class, including bunker guardians, gets punished for this.
The problem is cantrips and how they synergise with the traits. There needs to be some significant nerfing to this aspects of eles in the next patch. And perhaps some nerfing to the water skills on the scepter to reduce how much they heal for.
As well as taking no skill to survive as an ele it also takes no skill to do damage as an ele. You dont have to focus targets, in fact you don t have to look at the screen. You just get on a point and click a predefined rotation to stack might and do aoe damage to everything on the point. Then you heal on you and your allies with another basic rotations. There is almost no adapting to situations required to be effective as an ele.
Ele is way too easy to play and yet way too effective if played well. This could be changed at both ends by nerfing how cantrips synergise with the popular builds and can also be nerfed by reducing the heals on the scepter.
Why should EVERY other class be punished for missing dodges or for playing badly but an ele can just get away with it over and over again, whilst dishing out some strong damage too.
Let me answer some of your question:
“They never dodge illusionary leap”: Why they should worry about the leap? What the true danger after the lea kitten wapping in which immobolize and Blurred Frenzy. Instead of dodging the leap which is pointless because it is hard to see its coming and waste your dodge. Swap is easier to predict because once you see the Leap, you can tell that when the leap approach you, Mesmer will swap. They save the dodge to dodge the Immobolize and Frenzy coming up which makes more sense to me.
“They activate armour or earth and then do churning earth vs necros”. You are right about the Armor of Earth is CC but you missing one important point.It also give stability to Eles. The reason behind it is CE is a long casting time (3 1/2s to cast) and one of the most powerfull spell among Eles skill, also with the long CD (30s), while casting it, Eles is your punching bag in 3s. They don’t want Necro to FEAR it as the last minute make all the effort go to waste.CE is the channeling skill, if you interupt the casting, it never come out. Too much of a sarcrifice to make.
“they dont dodge any incoming cc themselves” I agree that Eles has a lot of Dodge through Vigor, however by no mean, you can outuse them. Eles after all is still a cloth class plus low health pool, they need to use their dodge wisely. Say for example, if another Eles using Magnetic Grasp, you know that he is excuting CE combo, sure you can dodge the Grasp, but then it save opponent the trouble to use EArthquake. What you want to do is wait for him to come near you and use his Earthquake, you can dodge the Earthquake. So make him wasted 2 skill instead of 1. Let say you fail to dodge the Earthquake, sure he will cast CE right afterward. You can easily dodge CE even being downed by Earthquake. My point is: It not like they don’t want to dodge CC, they rather save it, use it wisely and bait the opp wasting their skill if they know what is the combo is. The only way, Eles can win against another Skill Class is to outplay them.
" some nerfing to the water skills on the scepter to reduce how much they heal for" You know that a very few Eles outhere running Scepter right? You see Eles heal so much first because of their low health pool, second, they trait for it. So they deserve it.
" Ele is way too easy to play and yet way too effective if played well" Maybe if you are a God of Gammer. Sure Eles is easier for you.
As far as I see, all the opinion you post is calling for nerf. How about some buff? Nerf comes with buff and No, Eles is far from Perfect.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/The-map-is-utter-unbalanced-rubbish/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Will-the-elementalist-be-nerfed-next-patch/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/They-buffed-the-elementalist/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/I-actually-prefer-the-meta-after-the-patch/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/The-ele-is-game-breakingly-good-on-spirit/
Choose any of the above, and save time from reading more of the same garbage in this thread.
As a last note: When a bunker Ele does 6k Firegrab, you have my persmission to cry!
no bunker can do it… you are probably talking about D/D semi bunker with valk amulet and maybe 10% crit chance, but thats problem of semi bunker amulet+fury boon, not ele, i bet any prof with some nuke ability and fury can do it as well (except OPness of cantrips, but you are talking about dmg)
(edited by MaXi.3642)
As a last note: When a bunker Ele does 6k Firegrab, you have my persmission to cry!
no bunker can do it… you are probably talking about D/D semi bunker with valk amulet and maybe 10% crit chance, but thats problem of semi bunker amulet+fury boon, not ele
He means only when a Bunker Ele does 6k Firegrab, then QQer has the right to QQ… I think I am done here. Typing my finger until broken won’t do anything good to those who never even try to learn the class or the only thing they know is breaking the enjoyable game enviroment.
Stealth. I play D/D Elementalist. I play Staff Elementalist more so. I understand the class very well. I still believe it needs some specific nerfing. All your arguments ever seem to be are referring to other players as QQers and calling things a l2p problem. It’s incredibly rude, to many people that don’t even deserve it.
Stealth. I play D/D Elementalist. I play Staff Elementalist more so. I understand the class very well. I still believe it needs some specific nerfing.
it needs much more buffing then nerfing… only viable lines are water and arcane, while water being a bit OP (yes some water line traits are what makes ele look OP), arcane is fine after huge nerfs to Evasive arcana and that Vigor on crit trait, at the other hand, fire is useless (except for signet/aura spec), air is mediocre but not worth spending many points, earth is just bad…
s/d berzerker needs boost!
If they nerf Elementalist’s ability to cleanse their entire party of conditions, and so often, I’ll be perfectly fine with them doing 65,000 damage with firegrab because I know how to avoid it.
What bugs me is their healing ability. What also bugs me is their cleansing capability. What bugs me even further is their boon sharing capability. And finally what bugs the absolute CRAP out of me, is that all of this is AoE. Fighting a Thief with a good Elementalist helping is like fighting a bunker that crits for 9k. That’s immune to my main source of damage.
And yes, Elementalist is actually very forgiving. You screw up on a Thief? You’re dead. Screw up on Mesmer? You’re dead. Screw up on Necromancer? You’re dead. Scre… roll a Warrior? You’re dead. Screw up on Elementalist? Heal it all back, run away, and try again.
Cantrips and Elemental Attunement are, currently, the two strongest things about an elementalist, IMO. Their healing capabilities are forgiving, but if their cantrips were worse, how good would bunker eles be? EA’s party-wide 5s protection each 9s is too much (meanwhile, its might on fire is kinda weak, devs should both nerf and buff it to make glass cannons not worse :P), and cantrips have the best traits and ALL OF THEM are stun-breakers.
In my opinion, the devs have made a mistake in making all cantrips the ele’s stunbreakers. This means that, in theory, a pure signet/ glyph/ conjure/ arcane build will be useless for a pvp ele, even if those utilities were strong enough to be viable (arcanes kinda are). Eles will always need to bring a cantrip with them, which is restricting.
The devs should, in my opinion, redesign cantrips, so that being stun breakers are no longer a rule for them. Take stun breaking out of the fire cantrip, rework some of the others to no longer be stun-breakers, and then add that effect into a signet (signet of air is the best candidate), a conjure (conjure shield desperately needs it to be a viable alternative to mist form), etc.
(edited by DiogoSilva.7089)
like who the hell is this Stealth guy? you are on every single thread about eles telling others to l2p and calling them QQers, i mean, what have you accomplished in this game that others havent? what makes you thnk you are so good that you can tell everybody to l2p? And you are so deluded from the thruth its incredible! According to you, eles are not op on mobiloty, they’re not op on healing, they’re not op on group buffing healing etc etc, no super easy(like the easiest class to play on the game), “no mang, ele is balanced!”. I wouldnt be surprised if you said eles are UP.
I wouldnt be surprised if you said eles are UP.
He kind of says that already.
EA’s party-wide 5s protection each 9s is too much (meanwhile, its might on fire is kinda weak, devs should both nerf and buff it to make glass cannons not worse :P)
you forgot two major things…
1) CD starts after you LEAVE that particular attunement, so its NEVER 9sec even if ele swap to earth and to something else right after it
2) its 9sec ONLY if ele spend 30 points into arcane, base CD is 15sec with 1) taking into account
maybe it could be tier 2 instead of 1, but what would you move to tier 1 instead?
BTW you think its at the same power level as Mesmers Deceptive illusion? if EA is 2, DI should be definitely 3!
I wouldnt be surprised if you said eles are UP.
He kind of says that already.
only reason why ele isnt UP right now is that he have OP traits in water line which provides a lot of defense when used with 3 cantrip utilities… after they nerf it (and they should, its OP), ele will be UP without buffs to weak lines…
(edited by MaXi.3642)
like who the hell is this Stealth guy? you are on every single thread about eles telling others to l2p and calling them QQers, i mean, what have you accomplished in this game that others havent? what makes you thnk you are so good that you can tell everybody to l2p? And you are so deluded from the thruth its incredible! According to you, eles are not op on mobiloty, they’re not op on healing, they’re not op on group buffing healing etc etc, no super easy(like the easiest class to play on the game), “no mang, ele is balanced!”. I wouldnt be surprised if you said eles are UP.
I am me. If you want to meet me, call my name in game Kaane Moka. I am just a commner.Yet I have more knowledge about Eles class than most QQer out there. I am not being arrogant, I am confident enough to dare say that. Yes, I am in every single thread to correct what people said untrue about Eles. “Eles is as burst as thief” True or Fail? “Eles can outlive all other class out there even in Berserk Trait?” True or Fail? " Eles have everything, as bursty as thief, as tanky as Guard, as mobile as thief,all in ONE BUILD?" True or Fail? “CE is Undodgeable with Flash”? True or fail? I leave that to you guys answer which is I already much know the answer. I never said Eles is UP. What I want to correct is in D/D Eles are balanced (People complain we have so much healing, toughness and Mobile and yet people fail to see that we are Traited for it, and for what? So we can survive in a mess of a battle). I already explain many times in my other post that why we need it. And Yes Eles in UP in the case of all other weapon and other traits. I would love to see the variety in Eles Build, as well as all other Weapon Skill to be useable? Hell No, Right now, all I can see is bunker Eles, all the time and you know what, I am tired of it. But when I try to use different Build, it is NO GOOD AT ALL. Only Bunker Eles is what we have to play, nerf them, I would rather remove the CLass Completely, don’t let it stand there Like a Zombie.
And Let me ask you guys, What ELSE all the QQer out there suggest to Eles rather than Nerfing Eles. I have not yet single say any Idea on how to Buff them. A Nerf without Buff is a certain way to broke the class. Please don’t make Eles like a second Warrior. If you guy have any way to balance the class, I am all Ear. And instead of Nerfing, why not QQ for Buffing all other class, won’t it be better?
And you won’t ever see me again in any QQer thread about Eles, I am tired, sick and hate wasting my time to say to those who never learn to even try to study the class throughoutly, I said throughoutly, don’t be halfbaked.
And No, please don’t use my bad English as an excuse. English is my forth language.
Thank you.
like who the hell is this Stealth guy? you are on every single thread about eles telling others to l2p and calling them QQers, i mean, what have you accomplished in this game that others havent? what makes you thnk you are so good that you can tell everybody to l2p? And you are so deluded from the thruth its incredible! According to you, eles are not op on mobiloty, they’re not op on healing, they’re not op on group buffing healing etc etc, no super easy(like the easiest class to play on the game), “no mang, ele is balanced!”. I wouldnt be surprised if you said eles are UP.
I can’t speak for him, but I’ll tell you what I’ve done repeatedly.
I beat any bunker Eles I’ve met tPvP with my Warrior so far (about 200 total tournament games and 30% played with Warrior)…
Their Water skills/cleansing are OP, along with Cantrips. Fix those and you can buff whatever you want within reason. That’s all I have been saying.
By the way Stealth, I would invent a drinking game about how many times you use “QQ” in a post, but I’d probably be dead of Alcohol poisoning by now if I did.
Necromancer is currently the most balanced class in the game, despite having some serious glitches and problems. All of it’s builds are viable. Jack of all trades, master of none. Elementalist only has 2 OP builds, no other viable ones. How is that balanced?
(edited by TheMightyAltroll.3485)
Their Water skills/cleansing are OP, along with Cantrips. Fix those and you can buff whatever you want within reason. That’s all I have been saying.
not water/cleansing skills, but water traits together with cantrips (they make condi cleaner from every regen source and thus even cantrips)
(edited by MaXi.3642)
like who the hell is this Stealth guy? you are on every single thread about eles telling others to l2p and calling them QQers, i mean, what have you accomplished in this game that others havent? what makes you thnk you are so good that you can tell everybody to l2p? And you are so deluded from the thruth its incredible! According to you, eles are not op on mobiloty, they’re not op on healing, they’re not op on group buffing healing etc etc, no super easy(like the easiest class to play on the game), “no mang, ele is balanced!”. I wouldnt be surprised if you said eles are UP.
I am me. If you want to meet me, call my name in game Kaane Moka. I am just a commner.Yet I have more knowledge about Eles class than most QQer out there. I am not being arrogant, I am confident enough to dare say that. Yes, I am in every single thread to correct what people said untrue about Eles. “Eles is as burst as thief” True or Fail? “Eles can outlive all other class out there even in Berserk Trait?” True or Fail? " Eles have everything, as bursty as thief, as tanky as Guard, as mobile as thief,all in ONE BUILD?" True or Fail? “CE is Undodgeable with Flash”? True or fail? I leave that to you guys answer which is I already much know the answer. I never said Eles is UP. What I want to correct is in D/D Eles are balanced (People complain we have so much healing, toughness and Mobile and yet people fail to see that we are Traited for it, and for what? So we can survive in a mess of a battle). I already explain many times in my other post that why we need it. And Yes Eles in UP in the case of all other weapon and other traits. I would love to see the variety in Eles Build, as well as all other Weapon Skill to be useable? Hell No, Right now, all I can see is bunker Eles, all the time and you know what, I am tired of it. But when I try to use different Build, it is NO GOOD AT ALL. Only Bunker Eles is what we have to play, nerf them, I would rather remove the CLass Completely, don’t let it stand there Like a Zombie.
And Let me ask you guys, What ELSE all the QQer out there suggest to Eles rather than Nerfing Eles. I have not yet single say any Idea on how to Buff them. A Nerf without Buff is a certain way to broke the class. Please don’t make Eles like a second Warrior. If you guy have any way to balance the class, I am all Ear. And instead of Nerfing, why not QQ for Buffing all other class, won’t it be better?
And you won’t ever see me again in any QQer thread about Eles, I am tired, sick and hate wasting my time to say to those who never learn to even try to study the class throughoutly, I said throughoutly, don’t be halfbaked.
And No, please don’t use my bad English as an excuse. English is my forth language.
Thank you.
dps ele is perfectly viable. surely you need water and arcane, but you can go with valk ammo and still dish out 10 k AoE damage burst while having tons of healing capabilities and going with 600 toughness more than standard glass cannons (increased by its healing capabilities) and while having a lot more sustain and having way, WAY more group utility.
Ele has 2-3 viable builds that effectively are simply variations of the same water/arcana build, going from strong to grossly overpowered,but simply because there’s no choice regarding traits it doesn’t mean you can neglect how strong the ele is, and how a WHOLE META revolves around it.
ele needs serious nerfs, deal with it.
just like I dealt with the totally unnecessary (most of the time) nerfs to the thief, which left the class with a SINGLE, and not even that powerful, build.
like who the hell is this Stealth guy? you are on every single thread about eles telling others to l2p and calling them QQers, i mean, what have you accomplished in this game that others havent? what makes you thnk you are so good that you can tell everybody to l2p? And you are so deluded from the thruth its incredible! According to you, eles are not op on mobiloty, they’re not op on healing, they’re not op on group buffing healing etc etc, no super easy(like the easiest class to play on the game), “no mang, ele is balanced!”. I wouldnt be surprised if you said eles are UP.
I am me. If you want to meet me, call my name in game Kaane Moka. I am just a commner.Yet I have more knowledge about Eles class than most QQer out there. I am not being arrogant, I am confident enough to dare say that. Yes, I am in every single thread to correct what people said untrue about Eles. “Eles is as burst as thief” True or Fail? “Eles can outlive all other class out there even in Berserk Trait?” True or Fail? " Eles have everything, as bursty as thief, as tanky as Guard, as mobile as thief,all in ONE BUILD?" True or Fail? “CE is Undodgeable with Flash”? True or fail? I leave that to you guys answer which is I already much know the answer. I never said Eles is UP. What I want to correct is in D/D Eles are balanced (People complain we have so much healing, toughness and Mobile and yet people fail to see that we are Traited for it, and for what? So we can survive in a mess of a battle). I already explain many times in my other post that why we need it. And Yes Eles in UP in the case of all other weapon and other traits. I would love to see the variety in Eles Build, as well as all other Weapon Skill to be useable? Hell No, Right now, all I can see is bunker Eles, all the time and you know what, I am tired of it. But when I try to use different Build, it is NO GOOD AT ALL. Only Bunker Eles is what we have to play, nerf them, I would rather remove the CLass Completely, don’t let it stand there Like a Zombie.
And Let me ask you guys, What ELSE all the QQer out there suggest to Eles rather than Nerfing Eles. I have not yet single say any Idea on how to Buff them. A Nerf without Buff is a certain way to broke the class. Please don’t make Eles like a second Warrior. If you guy have any way to balance the class, I am all Ear. And instead of Nerfing, why not QQ for Buffing all other class, won’t it be better?
And you won’t ever see me again in any QQer thread about Eles, I am tired, sick and hate wasting my time to say to those who never learn to even try to study the class throughoutly, I said throughoutly, don’t be halfbaked.
And No, please don’t use my bad English as an excuse. English is my forth language.
Thank you.
dps ele is perfectly viable. surely you need water and arcane, but you can go with valk ammo and still dish out 10 k AoE damage burst while having tons of healing capabilities and going with 600 toughness more than standard glass cannons (increased by its healing capabilities) and while having a lot more sustain and having way, WAY more group utility.
Ele has 2-3 viable builds that effectively are simply variations of the same water/arcana build, going from strong to grossly overpowered,but simply because there’s no choice regarding traits it doesn’t mean you can neglect how strong the ele is, and how a WHOLE META revolves around it.
ele needs serious nerfs, deal with it.
just like I dealt with the totally unnecessary (most of the time) nerfs to the thief, which left the class with a SINGLE, and not even that powerful, build.
dps ele is perfectly viable. surely you need water and arcane
do you hear yourself? pure dps spec not using dps lines? there is something wrong dont you think? anyway, valk amulet + water + arcane is semi-bunker with 10% crit maybe even less, thats not dps ele…
dps ele is perfectly viable. surely you need water and arcane
do you hear yourself? pure dps spec not using dps lines? there is something wrong dont you think? anyway, valk amulet + water + arcane is semi-bunker with 10% crit maybe even less, thats not dps ele…
zephyr boons is your friend.
runes of the pack also.
tell me how a char with 3k power and 40% crit chance (due to nearly permanent fury up) is not dps.
this with a standard 0-20-0-20-30 build (with D/D you have costant fury and with S/D your burst is based on attunement swap, that guess what, gives you fury, so you don’t even need zephyr boon).
think the issue here is most eles not only don’t know how to play the class, but don’t even know how to make a build.
please tell me what you mean with “nearly permanent fury up”, name sources with boon duration pls, i just cant realize how is that possible… only ele build which can imo maintain nearly permanent fury is auramancer (doesnt matter if aurashare or written in stone version)
PS: usuall (OP) D/D semi bunker cantrip build is 0/10/0/30/30 (30 water is mandatory, arcane is important as well due to attunement cooldowns), together with valk amulet and berserker jewel, its 12% crit… thats obviously pure dps ele… well, its not even close to the dps potential if almost all fire and air traits wouldnt be useless…
PPS: best joke is a triggered ability as 30 point air trait with internal CD 90sec while that ability on weapon set have 25sec CD…
(edited by MaXi.3642)
Why did you create this thread in the first place? There are hundreds of threads with the exact same topic and Anet already said they are going to nerf the “Cantrip” ele.
(Which is the right thing to do imo but they should buff the other builds as well. )
zephyr boons is your friend.
runes of the pack also.
tell me how a char with 3k power and 40% crit chance (due to nearly permanent fury up) is not dps.
this with a standard 0-20-0-20-30 build (with D/D you have costant fury and with S/D your burst is based on attunement swap, that guess what, gives you fury, so you don’t even need zephyr boon).
think the issue here is most eles not only don’t know how to play the class, but don’t even know how to make a build.
Because the 2.5 secs of fury you get on attunement swap surely gives enough time to land burst on s/d. And good luck landing burst with that weapon set in high tier play.
Without boon duration runes, you will not have perma fury on d/d either.
Maybe you should take your own advice and learn your own class before trying to grasp another? clearly you’ve never actually played an ele.
(edited by Cirax.9231)
elementalist is such a nice class
if u think it is op; play it by urself….
zephyr boons is your friend.
runes of the pack also.
tell me how a char with 3k power and 40% crit chance (due to nearly permanent fury up) is not dps.
this with a standard 0-20-0-20-30 build (with D/D you have costant fury and with S/D your burst is based on attunement swap, that guess what, gives you fury, so you don’t even need zephyr boon).
think the issue here is most eles not only don’t know how to play the class, but don’t even know how to make a build.
Because the 2.5 secs of fury you get on attunement swap surely gives enough time to land burst on s/d. And good luck landing burst with that weapon set in high tier play.
Without boon duration runes, you will not have perma fury on d/d either.
Maybe you should take your own advice and learn your own class before trying to grasp another? clearly you’ve never actually played an ele.
the moment when someone who believes S/D burst is in fire attunement tells you to l2p…
/facepalm
and yes, 2, 5 secs are more than enough to casrlt phoenix+ dragon’s tooth + fire grab
zephyr boons is your friend.
runes of the pack also.
tell me how a char with 3k power and 40% crit chance (due to nearly permanent fury up) is not dps.
this with a standard 0-20-0-20-30 build (with D/D you have costant fury and with S/D your burst is based on attunement swap, that guess what, gives you fury, so you don’t even need zephyr boon).
think the issue here is most eles not only don’t know how to play the class, but don’t even know how to make a build.
Because the 2.5 secs of fury you get on attunement swap surely gives enough time to land burst on s/d. And good luck landing burst with that weapon set in high tier play.
Without boon duration runes, you will not have perma fury on d/d either.
Maybe you should take your own advice and learn your own class before trying to grasp another? clearly you’ve never actually played an ele.
the moment when someone who believes S/D burst is in fire attunement tells you to l2p…
/facepalm
and yes, 2, 5 secs are more than enough to casrlt phoenix+ dragon’s tooth + fire grab
And you provide a realistic example of s/d burst in fire attunement. Wonderful contradiction. Save yourself from digging a deeper hole and play the class lol
zephyr boons is your friend.
runes of the pack also.
tell me how a char with 3k power and 40% crit chance (due to nearly permanent fury up) is not dps.
this with a standard 0-20-0-20-30 build (with D/D you have costant fury and with S/D your burst is based on attunement swap, that guess what, gives you fury, so you don’t even need zephyr boon).
think the issue here is most eles not only don’t know how to play the class, but don’t even know how to make a build.
Because the 2.5 secs of fury you get on attunement swap surely gives enough time to land burst on s/d. And good luck landing burst with that weapon set in high tier play.
Without boon duration runes, you will not have perma fury on d/d either.
Maybe you should take your own advice and learn your own class before trying to grasp another? clearly you’ve never actually played an ele.
the moment when someone who believes S/D burst is in fire attunement tells you to l2p…
/facepalm
and yes, 2, 5 secs are more than enough to casrlt phoenix+ dragon’s tooth + fire grab
And you provide a realistic example of s/d burst in fire attunement. Wonderful contradiction. Save yourself from digging a deeper hole and play the class lol
S/D burst is not in fire attunement. Period.
Fire rotation is simply another way to dish out crapload of AoE on the point forcing any class not built for survival to go away and kite, leaving the point free for a decap, unless he wants to eat a 4k dragon’s tooth in da face.
If you don’t know your own class, it’s better if you spend your time learning it instead of posting useless nonsense in forums.
People tend to QQ about the “mage” class in every mmo. This is nothing new
Gonna post this idea here for more visibility. I think eles could be brought down a bit by swapping the effects of Evasive Arcana with the 15 point minor traits, or swapping the effects of Elemental Attunement with the 15 point minor traits. Bunker eles (30 in water, 30 in arcane) would still get their heals and most of their boons and condition removal, they just wouldn’t get the benefits of all the other attunements too.
This would also make the the class less forgiving, so this IS related to the OP.
Most annoying thing about fighting an ele is getting them to 10% watching them disengage and come back a moment later full life, something no other class can do.
zephyr boons is your friend.
runes of the pack also.
tell me how a char with 3k power and 40% crit chance (due to nearly permanent fury up) is not dps.
this with a standard 0-20-0-20-30 build (with D/D you have costant fury and with S/D your burst is based on attunement swap, that guess what, gives you fury, so you don’t even need zephyr boon).
think the issue here is most eles not only don’t know how to play the class, but don’t even know how to make a build.
Because the 2.5 secs of fury you get on attunement swap surely gives enough time to land burst on s/d. And good luck landing burst with that weapon set in high tier play.
Without boon duration runes, you will not have perma fury on d/d either.
Maybe you should take your own advice and learn your own class before trying to grasp another? clearly you’ve never actually played an ele.
the moment when someone who believes S/D burst is in fire attunement tells you to l2p…
/facepalm
and yes, 2, 5 secs are more than enough to casrlt phoenix+ dragon’s tooth + fire grab
And you provide a realistic example of s/d burst in fire attunement. Wonderful contradiction. Save yourself from digging a deeper hole and play the class lol
S/D burst is not in fire attunement. Period.
Fire rotation is simply another way to dish out crapload of AoE on the point forcing any class not built for survival to go away and kite, leaving the point free for a decap, unless he wants to eat a 4k dragon’s tooth in da face.
If you don’t know your own class, it’s better if you spend your time learning it instead of posting useless nonsense in forums.
You’re the one who is saying burst is in fire attunment, not me. Read your own posts.
But do enlighten the forums on s/d burst in other attunments using 2.5 seconds of fury on a valk build.
Any competent player knows s/d is known for its bunkering. Btw, dragon’s tooth aoe doesn’t cover the entire point in conquest – it looks like you ate some s/d burst and you’re kitten over it. It’s a huge l2p if you get burst by s/d.
Don’t lie to yourself. Play the class and learn it.
(edited by Cirax.9231)
You can burst with s/d with the arcane spells and lightning attunement, I saw a streamer do it once. It’s 5-7 spells in a row that have 0 casting time and will all crit guaranteed. Dropped a heavy golem from full to 10% in no time flat.
That is on a dps build, sacrificing a lot of surviability to be able to burst with arcane utilities. Mr.big was referring to hybrid bunker builds that somehow do that sort of damage reliably.
Heavy golem is stationary, the issue is actually HITTING someone with all that stuff while they are moving around. It’s just not practically useful, while it works in a vacuum it’s not effective in combat.
zephyr boons is your friend.
runes of the pack also.
tell me how a char with 3k power and 40% crit chance (due to nearly permanent fury up) is not dps.
this with a standard 0-20-0-20-30 build (with D/D you have costant fury and with S/D your burst is based on attunement swap, that guess what, gives you fury, so you don’t even need zephyr boon).
think the issue here is most eles not only don’t know how to play the class, but don’t even know how to make a build.
Because the 2.5 secs of fury you get on attunement swap surely gives enough time to land burst on s/d. And good luck landing burst with that weapon set in high tier play.
Without boon duration runes, you will not have perma fury on d/d either.
Maybe you should take your own advice and learn your own class before trying to grasp another? clearly you’ve never actually played an ele.
the moment when someone who believes S/D burst is in fire attunement tells you to l2p…
/facepalm
and yes, 2, 5 secs are more than enough to casrlt phoenix+ dragon’s tooth + fire grab
And you provide a realistic example of s/d burst in fire attunement. Wonderful contradiction. Save yourself from digging a deeper hole and play the class lol
S/D burst is not in fire attunement. Period.
Fire rotation is simply another way to dish out crapload of AoE on the point forcing any class not built for survival to go away and kite, leaving the point free for a decap, unless he wants to eat a 4k dragon’s tooth in da face.
If you don’t know your own class, it’s better if you spend your time learning it instead of posting useless nonsense in forums.
You’re the one who is saying burst is in fire attunment, not me. Read your own posts.
But do enlighten the forums on s/d burst in other attunments using 2.5 seconds of fury on a valk build.
Any competent player knows s/d is known for its bunkering. Btw, dragon’s tooth aoe doesn’t cover the entire point in conquest – it looks like you ate some s/d burst and you’re kitten over it. It’s a huge l2p if you get burst by s/d.
Don’t lie to yourself. Play the class and learn it.
on a 0-20-0-20-30 build with pack runes and valk ammo+ zerk jewel and accuracy sigil you can reach 3k power and 47% crit ( with D/D auramaster) or 27 % with S/D ( whenever you switch attunement you gain fury, getting up to 47%).
Thanks to Electric discharge ( 2nd minor in air traitline) you can deal istant damage when swapping to air attunement, benefitting from attunement swap fury ( it can deal up to 2.5 k damage on squishy thieves).
Scepter 2 in air attunement ( Lightning strike) is an instant cast, benefitting from fury as soon as you swap, and can crit up to 4 k on squishies.
usually S/D dps eles run with double arcane ( wave, blast) both istant, both always crit, no matters what your crit chance is.
Arcane wave can crit up to 3k-3.5k ( according to might stacking), arcane blast can crit up to 2k ( according to might stacking).
Common S/D burst combo is to swap to air and unleash all this istant crap all at once.
You can do it whenver you want, even while being bursted, even while dodging, even while casting churning earth.
It deals more than 10 k damage, it’s istant ( even faster than thief burst) and 2 of its main damage sources will crit anyway, without caring about your crit chance.
Fire rotation is used only to build up might in order to do this burst combo ( that can be repeated every 24 secs as long as you pick arcane spells CD reductions traits).
Tons of top eles run this build or slight variations of this one, Phantaram being the most popular ( and probably one of the first using it competitively).
Now you’re acknowledged. You can go back learning to play .
Elementalist don’t need a nerf, other classes just need the sustain they can achieve in there own way.
@Mr.big – You’re describing a completely different build that isn’t “simply variations of the same water/arcana build” (your words). That build has dps, but nowhere near the surviability that comes with bunker water/arcane builds.
Thanks for trying though.
agree with op I made an eleven and copied a cheese build simply spamming between attunements and using rtl when in trouble makes you near impossible to kill. and I had no clue what I was doing
Arcane wave can crit up to 3k-3.5k ( according to might stacking), arcane blast can crit up to 2k ( according to might stacking).
Actually Blast and Wave deal the same amount of damage, even though tooltips suggest otherwise. Both will crit for around 3k (I have personally hit people for 4.5k with it with vulnerability and might stacks maxed) on a glass cannon.
@Mr.big – You’re describing a completely different build that isn’t “simply variations of the same water/arcana build” (your words). That build has dps, but nowhere near the surviability that comes with bunker water/arcane builds.
Thanks for trying though.
It’s a simple variation.
You’re sitting with the same toughness, slight less ( 100 less) healing power than standard “semibunker” valk ele.
You simply don’t have renewing stamina , and have less cantrips slotted.
You are dishing out huge damage, have huge survivability ( ten times better than standard glass cannons), 80% of your damage is AoE, you’re great 1vs1 ( in some cases even 1vs2), you give your team one of the best ( if not the best) support, you can burst kinda like a glass cannon ( not saying that glass cannons can’t dish out more damage, but they’re sacrificing A LOT MORE than ele) .
Same build, same traits, same amulets, just slight different trait location and U-skill choice.
The ele is the best class in the game, hands down. It’s not a jack of all trade, it’s a master of everything.
There’s no point in having any other direct damage dealer, an ele can do easily thief/war/power engie job.
Plus moar mobility
Plus moar healing
Plus moar buffs.
Please, and i say, PLEASE.
STOP DEFENDING ELES, THEY NEED A NERF.
Their bunker builds need a nerf, but their dps builds should remain intact.
I was simply pointing out the fallacies in your argument. Most players, including you, that cry OP eles don’t actually know why they are strong in the meta. Damage and mobility are not the main issues with eles currently. Fix the bunkering, the rest will fall into place.
This is a forum btw, anyone is free to discuss whatever they want within the forum rules.
You forget to mention you only have 1 stun break and 0 or 1 skills which give you Stability. That means you will most likely need someone to protect you which will obviously happen in tPvP.
I also think the ele bunker (doesn’t matter if it’s D/D, S/D or slight variations) needs some kind of nerf but the rest of the ele definitely needs a buff.
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