Guild Wars 2

Based on reading the march end survey it’s easy to conclude that a majority of players consider Elementalists to be slightly on the OP side. I don’t understand why this is the case based on what I’ve seen while playing, for the following reasons:

1. It seems like a majority of elementalist damage burst avoidable because they are AoE based.
2. While elementalists do have some stun breaks, from my fights against Eles they seem to be very prone to CC. Even if you don’t kill them (likely unless you are with a group) you can force them to use up their few defensive cooldowns and retreat.

Compare this to Mesmers:
1. Blurred Frenzy, most OP skill I have ever seen. 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10 second cooldown, wtf? What other class has 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10s cooldown? I’m not even considering the extra burst.
2. Ilusionary Leap, while technically not a stun break can basically nullify the effects of immobilize or snare or freeze. On a 12 second cooldown.

Silly Geff. Nobody is denying both are over the top:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List

But Eles are simply better than Mesmers.

Asomal.6453:

1. Blurred Frenzy, most OP skill I have ever seen. 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10 second cooldown, wtf? What other class has 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10s cooldown? I’m not even considering the extra burst.
2. Ilusionary Leap, while technically not a stun break can basically nullify the effects of immobilize or snare or freeze. On a 12 second cooldown.

Both are hilariously easy to avoid. L2 kitten ue. In a matchup between an equally good mesmer and ele, the ele will win more often than not – by a significant margin I’m betting.

wookie.8934:

Asomal.6453:

1. Blurred Frenzy, most OP skill I have ever seen. 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10 second cooldown, wtf? What other class has 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10s cooldown? I’m not even considering the extra burst.
2. Ilusionary Leap, while technically not a stun break can basically nullify the effects of immobilize or snare or freeze. On a 12 second cooldown.

Both are hilariously easy to avoid. L2 kitten ue.

Bet you play one of them :^)
If not, why don’t you try to avoid them as a warrior? Go on

Warriors counter mesmers.. oh wait just read something about quickness… never mind.

People… complain about Mesmers to much, infact they’re beyond easy if you can and know how to target lock, 2 second root inv?… that’s not even good, stun break their combo.. and gg. Unlike.. Ely’s… now they’re another story, the fact that their hp always stays around 90% is what’s making them op, 1vs1 if they’re losing they go away for 2-3 seconds come back with full HP.

Main is a thief, Warrior.. and now even with this latest patch. I don’t even bother trying to solo them lol

The main problem with blurred frenzy is that it shouldn’t give invulnerabilty. That doesn’t even make sense. Why not give 100b invulnerability? Same scenario.
——————-

Mesmers have i believe the highest burst now(maybe thief beats them), but they can still down you faster than you can them. Put that with stealth/clones and stuns. DEAD

The only problem with Mesmers for me is the friggin’ camera in tight spots. When I can’t see enough of the playing field to know when I’m about to get rush shattered, it’s kind of hard to counter.

Elementalists though, are the OP profession in the game for one reason alone at the core… they can self heal, a lot, easily, and pretty regularly. A fight with a good Ele becomes an issue of time… in 1v1, yeah, they are beatable, just like the bunker Rangers are, but you have to dance around, time out your CC, hit them at the right time.

In tPvP against a good team you typically have roughly 20 seconds to get the job done 1v1 and then it’s outnumber/lightsout/conquestftwbabby. So an Ele, who can easily make the fight last much longer than that suddenly becomes an apex predator when they can also put out a decent amount of sustained damage in the meantime and make sure you are nice and tenderized for your zerg butchering experience.

Oh, and also, Ride the Lightning for movement. That one is a glaring miss by Anet for several patches now.

Blurred Frenzy shouldn’t be immune to all especially Aoe knock backs. Using that attack is like saying you can’t hit me lalalalaaa.

Eles are not considered op….eles are blatantly broken and everyone but those who play ele know that (Maybe them also, but they would never admit it, obviously..)

…and after quickness nerf may god have mercy on our souls…

Blurred Frenzy is a cool skill as it is. If you don’t like its defensive power, step aside, wait, and then do your burst.

The big problem with the mesmers, in my opinion, is Mind Wrack. Not exactly how strong it is, damage-wise, which it is, but the instant speed. It’s pretty much a “quickness” burst without quickness. And worse than that, it’s only instant against melee builds, which makes shattering (and especially MW) discriminate builds for, what it seems to be, no intended, logical reason.

I think Mind Wrack should get the same treatment as Hundred Blades and the like: have a longer animation (and it doesn’t even needs to be as long as HB). Maybe have clones get destroyed one by one, and not all at the same time. You know, something that allows a melee player to dodge it, step aside – to simply react to it.

An alternative solution, is to make clone generating a more precious resource. Destroying clones was supposed to be the big “counter” to shatters, but Mesmers can spam clones left and right. With a lot of vigor from criticals for a lot of dodging, they’re already spamming clones this way, not taking into consideration their 4+ illusion skills from their weapons, their lower cooldowns due to their shattering traits, and whatever illusion-generating utility they might bring, if they do so.

Both solutions would also make it more friendly to new players, and in crowded battles.

The problem with mesmers is that they have way too many forgiving survivability/escape/invulnerability mechanics making running absolute pure glass shatter not even an issue. As opposed to say a Thief or Warr trying the same kind of nonsense and having to assess his Risk-Reward really hard.

At least the ele has the decency to stay away from gc builds and zerker to get his unbeatable status..Mesmers dont even need them even when they are forced to pick 2 group utlities that add nothing to their survivability.
Im pretty sure that if ele had to bring portal and illusion for the team as well as timewarp instead of elem elite it would be far easier for you all to kill.
Food for thought i guess..

Geff.1930:

Based on reading the march end survey it’s easy to conclude that a majority of players consider Elementalists to be slightly on the OP side. I don’t understand why this is the case based on what I’ve seen while playing, for the following reasons:

1. It seems like a majority of elementalist damage burst avoidable because they are AoE based.
2. While elementalists do have some stun breaks, from my fights against Eles they seem to be very prone to CC. Even if you don’t kill them (likely unless you are with a group) you can force them to use up their few defensive cooldowns and retreat.

Compare this to Mesmers:
1. Blurred Frenzy, most OP skill I have ever seen. 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10 second cooldown, wtf? What other class has 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10s cooldown? I’m not even considering the extra burst.
2. Ilusionary Leap, while technically not a stun break can basically nullify the effects of immobilize or snare or freeze. On a 12 second cooldown.

If you play in premade vs premade games , with rank 40+ teams who have thousands of tournies under there belt, you begin to see why eles are OP. They are probably not the most deadly thing people fight in hotjoin. But your going to see a TON of eles on the top of that ladder, much more so than mesmers.

mesmers are only decent in 1v1, but in team fights an elementalist is pretty much god-mode while the mesmer can easily be shutdown

aaron.7850:

mesmers are only decent in 1v1, but in team fights an elementalist is pretty much god-mode while the mesmer can easily be shutdown

In fact, vs really good players mesmers are fairly middle of the pack 1vs1.

First, they tend to bring 2 or 3 utilities that are team oriented. Illusion of life, portal,timewarp.

SEcond. Good players KNOW the Mesmer mechanics, and how to avoid shatters, and find the real Mesmer quickly. I win the vast majority of my 1on1s vs mesmers on my engy.

Mesmers best feature is being a burst role for putting down ele’s or guardians in team fights, partially bc of boon strip.

daydream.2938:

aaron.7850:

mesmers are only decent in 1v1, but in team fights an elementalist is pretty much god-mode while the mesmer can easily be shutdown

In fact, vs really good players mesmers are fairly middle of the pack 1vs1.

First, they tend to bring 2 or 3 utilities that are team oriented. Illusion of life, portal,timewarp.

SEcond. Good players KNOW the Mesmer mechanics, and how to avoid shatters, and find the real Mesmer quickly. I win the vast majority of my 1on1s vs mesmers on my engy.

Mesmers best feature is being a burst role for putting down ele’s or guardians in team fights, partially bc of boon strip.

This

But new players struggle with it so we should nerf them.

aydenunited.5729:

Oh, and also, Ride the Lightning for movement. That one is a glaring miss by Anet for several patches now.

RtL is not the issue if you played the class or against it you would get.

Look months ago they dsaid we are nerfing ele healing. At that time on my ele i expected base healing to be nerfed. What happened was they nerfed heal scaling. Now what they have nerfed so far have been fury (forcing more GC eles into bunker) and heal scaling (affecting nearly no one)

The other issue is when you have 4 ele stacked on top of each other they just feed each other. The attunement bonuses, fields, aoe healing, etc all equal too much to handle. I remember like 4 months ago I was in the 5v5 dueling and noticed this ele who was there was getting heals out of water past the linger. Turn out I was attuned to water so he was getting that little bonus the entire time.

When eles feed off each other its mess.

the main issue with ele is boons how easy they are to apply and how no classes that can corrupt or strip them have much advantage to do is. The main reason is they apply so fast and frequent.

Boon hate might help (as bunker in general needs a proper nerf). The reason eles don’t say kitten is because of the EA fiasco where we pointed out the bug ourselves and got punished. On top of that everyone says mobility needs to be nerfed. The really kittened up thing is that GC and balanced eles get hit with nerfs harder then the kittening bunker. The reason being anything other than 30 in water cant deal well with the shear amount of DPS other classes can put out quickly beside using lots of mobility and boons.

I know the post is long but as DD ele who’s not 30 in water every time nerfs come through I get hit and glass cannons get murdered and I wonder why the hell I am not full bunker. When those nerfs bleed into PvE I kitten bricks because I don’t get it.

Mesmers are not OP but they are kitten close. The main issue with mesmer is counter play. They honestly get too much offense mixed in with defense. The shear number of ports and stun breakers makes them hard to lock down. Fight one on a warrior and you might break your keyboard lol.

The thing to remember imho is that mesmers are not particularly mobile (chase that is) and are susceptible to smart played 1 v 2 etc. The other thing is their condition removal overall is kittenty.

From my perspective as a DD without the insane number of cleanses is that Anet would either have to reduce base healing, retool water (so that not every cantrip is a condition remover) and cap condition removal or increase our base stats (our EHP numbers without boons are a joke) and nerf our boons.

Long post I know. Summed up ele doesn’t nee another crazy nerf but some classes like warrior need a buff. Ele needs its mobility but water line needs a nerf in the upper tier. Air and Fire need to be retooled completely. Base healing needs a nerf (not heal scaling). Mesmers are not Op but their mix of offense and defense at the same time requires too much work for only players to counter. SPvP should not bleed into PvE when it comes to balancing.

Geff.1930:

Based on reading the march end survey it’s easy to conclude that a majority of players consider Elementalists to be slightly on the OP side. I don’t understand why this is the case based on what I’ve seen while playing, for the following reasons:

1. It seems like a majority of elementalist damage burst avoidable because they are AoE based.
2. While elementalists do have some stun breaks, from my fights against Eles they seem to be very prone to CC. Even if you don’t kill them (likely unless you are with a group) you can force them to use up their few defensive cooldowns and retreat.

Compare this to Mesmers:
1. Blurred Frenzy, most OP skill I have ever seen. 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10 second cooldown, wtf? What other class has 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10s cooldown? I’m not even considering the extra burst.
2. Ilusionary Leap, while technically not a stun break can basically nullify the effects of immobilize or snare or freeze. On a 12 second cooldown.

You’re thinking of balance in terms of raw combat power. A meta viable ele isn’t going to roll in and destroy equally skilled people the way you would traditionally think of an OP class doing; at most they win attrition fights.

The problem with ele (specifically 0 0 10 30 30 cleric bunkers with 4x cantrips), and why they’re considered to be essentially ruining the meta, is their ability to contest a point with little risk. A cantrip bunker can contest the opponent’s close point by himself and keep at least one person there to fight him. If they don’t get help, the ele will eventually neut the point giving his team an advantage.

If help does come, the cantrip bunker can hold out for 20-30 seconds against two equally skilled players because of their large number of escape abilities (4x stun breakers, condition removal, nearly perma vigor, high up time on protection, and pretty decent up time on stability). When the ele does start getting behind, he can simply leave with RTL, heal up, get his cooldowns back and restart the process.

While other bunkers (guardian and ranger) are better at holding a point, they can’t reset the fight when it goes against them. When help comes to deal with a guardian bunker, he’s going to hold his position longer than the ele could, but then he’s going to get stomped and it will be awhile before he’s back. The other two bunkers also don’t have the mobility to constantly pressure far and return to help with team fights.

yes, eles seem to have an issue. In that the most powerful build in the game is an ele build, but they might really struggle with survavibiilty outside of that spec.

TheGuy.3568:

aydenunited.5729:

Oh, and also, Ride the Lightning for movement. That one is a glaring miss by Anet for several patches now.

RtL is not the issue if you played the class or against it you would get.

Look months ago they dsaid we are nerfing ele healing. At that time on my ele i expected base healing to be nerfed. What happened was they nerfed heal scaling. Now what they have nerfed so far have been fury (forcing more GC eles into bunker) and heal scaling (affecting nearly no one)

The other issue is when you have 4 ele stacked on top of each other they just feed each other. The attunement bonuses, fields, aoe healing, etc all equal too much to handle. I remember like 4 months ago I was in the 5v5 dueling and noticed this ele who was there was getting heals out of water past the linger. Turn out I was attuned to water so he was getting that little bonus the entire time.

When eles feed off each other its mess.

the main issue with ele is boons how easy they are to apply and how no classes that can corrupt or strip them have much advantage to do is. The main reason is they apply so fast and frequent.

Boon hate might help (as bunker in general needs a proper nerf). The reason eles don’t say kitten is because of the EA fiasco where we pointed out the bug ourselves and got punished. On top of that everyone says mobility needs to be nerfed. The really kittened up thing is that GC and balanced eles get hit with nerfs harder then the kittening bunker. The reason being anything other than 30 in water cant deal well with the shear amount of DPS other classes can put out quickly beside using lots of mobility and boons.

I know the post is long but as DD ele who’s not 30 in water every time nerfs come through I get hit and glass cannons get murdered and I wonder why the hell I am not full bunker. When those nerfs bleed into PvE I kitten bricks because I don’t get it.

Mesmers are not OP but they are kitten close. The main issue with mesmer is counter play. They honestly get too much offense mixed in with defense. The shear number of ports and stun breakers makes them hard to lock down. Fight one on a warrior and you might break your keyboard lol.

The thing to remember imho is that mesmers are not particularly mobile (chase that is) and are susceptible to smart played 1 v 2 etc. The other thing is their condition removal overall is kittenty.

From my perspective as a DD without the insane number of cleanses is that Anet would either have to reduce base healing, retool water (so that not every cantrip is a condition remover) and cap condition removal or increase our base stats (our EHP numbers without boons are a joke) and nerf our boons.

Long post I know. Summed up ele doesn’t nee another crazy nerf but some classes like warrior need a buff. Ele needs its mobility but water line needs a nerf in the upper tier. Air and Fire need to be retooled completely. Base healing needs a nerf (not heal scaling). Mesmers are not Op but their mix of offense and defense at the same time requires too much work for only players to counter. SPvP should not bleed into PvE when it comes to balancing.

You nerf bunker by implementing counter measures in the nature of more stripping boons skills/traits, you don’t simply go and destroy what make appealing go 30 water in the first place, we must create more viable builds..no destroy the current viable builds, hoping what’s bad now become suddenly good.

Most ppl that play PvP are Solo-q’ers, (especially now, that there is no competetive scene left) and they think stuff is imbalanced when it is hard to kill.

Why? Because to kill Bunker-Eles, you have to work as a Team. I don’t say that they aren’t a Problem even on higher Levels of play, but the Problem isn’t as severe as people make it out to be.

Or does any1 here really think that a non-bunker Staff-Ele or Valk-Septer/Dagger Ele with 2 Arcane-Spells is imba? Well, it’s not. It’s basically the same builds that were played a little bit when everyone said that the Ele is weak, because if you don’t play it as a Bunker, he’s very easy to kill by Mesmers/Thiefs and the DPS isn’t as high as the one of those classes.

So why don’t they think Mesmers are imba, or why do we hear now that some people even want a buff to Thiefs? Because the Meta is very tanky now and they can’t kill Eles and some other builds on their own anymore. Nerf Bunker and the only thing we’ll hear is once again: “NERF Mesmers omg!” or “THIEFS ARE SOOO IMBA111111 kekeke!”

The Problem with those DPS-Machines that can easily spike down non-bunker targets on their own and are hard to kill for a class-cannon is, that it’s way harder to deal with them in a Team, which isn’t the case for Bunkers, even ones that are maybe a little bit too strong.

In Fact, when I played actively a few months ago and the Bunker-Ele was all the rage on EU-Servers, I’ve talked with a few Players on Top-Teams (Top-10 QP) and they said that they really have no Problem with Bunker-Ele’s.

Tell me about it like if you have 4 ele bunker on the same team then it’s automatic lost to those that has a diverse team. I saw this warrior stand no choice while his teammate mesmer left him. and Jon sharp says we don’t want to make them godly …..hah!

It is true that there is a huge gap in the feedback they receive between how casuals perceive balance and how more hardcore players perceive balance.

Necros can kitten bunker eles. Mostly. But with other classes, eles can survive in 3v1 sometimes, while mesmers die in 2v1, at least won’t be able to finish them off.

And once you learn how to find the real mesmer not the clone, it’s not that OP.

Gandarel.5091:

Necros can kitten bunker eles. Mostly. But with other classes, eles can survive in 3v1 sometimes, while mesmers die in 2v1, at least won’t be able to finish them off.

And once you learn how to find the real mesmer not the clone, it’s not that OP.

This is such a stupid thing to say. Anyone with half a brain can find the real mesmer, not to mention half the time the clones he’s kittenting out are running straight at you for a shatter.

Mesmers aren’t hard/unfun to fight because of IDENTIFICATION problems, they’re hard to fight because they throw a clustercat out into the field, can drop into stealth, and have a million (exaggeration wow) invulnerabilities.

Jzaku.9765:

Gandarel.5091:

Necros can kitten bunker eles. Mostly. But with other classes, eles can survive in 3v1 sometimes, while mesmers die in 2v1, at least won’t be able to finish them off.

And once you learn how to find the real mesmer not the clone, it’s not that OP.

This is such a stupid thing to say. Anyone with half a brain can find the real mesmer, not to mention half the time the clones he’s kittenting out are running straight at you for a shatter.

Mesmers aren’t hard/unfun to fight because of IDENTIFICATION problems, they’re hard to fight because they throw a clustercat out into the field, can drop into stealth, and have a million (exaggeration wow) invulnerabilities.

I’m sure 70% of ppl crying here about the mesmer being OP can’t find the real one. Not like it’s that hard.

Caffynated.5713:

-snip-

How do you get 4 cantrips and 4 stun breakers?

Gandarel.5091:

Jzaku.9765:

Gandarel.5091:

Necros can kitten bunker eles. Mostly. But with other classes, eles can survive in 3v1 sometimes, while mesmers die in 2v1, at least won’t be able to finish them off.

And once you learn how to find the real mesmer not the clone, it’s not that OP.

This is such a stupid thing to say. Anyone with half a brain can find the real mesmer, not to mention half the time the clones he’s kittenting out are running straight at you for a shatter.

Mesmers aren’t hard/unfun to fight because of IDENTIFICATION problems, they’re hard to fight because they throw a clustercat out into the field, can drop into stealth, and have a million (exaggeration wow) invulnerabilities.

I’m sure 70% of ppl crying here about the mesmer being OP can’t find the real one. Not like it’s that hard.

Try finding real one in a group fight against 3 mesmers.

Khyras.8021:

Try finding real one in a group fight against 3 mesmers.

Still extremely easy

Only you can’t properly target them through the crap all over the field and their clones bodyblock whatever you’re trying to shoot at them

And then all of them shatter on you at once and your entire team melts from the instant aoe burst damage

Asomal.6453:

wookie.8934:

Asomal.6453:

1. Blurred Frenzy, most OP skill I have ever seen. 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10 second cooldown, wtf? What other class has 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10s cooldown? I’m not even considering the extra burst.
2. Ilusionary Leap, while technically not a stun break can basically nullify the effects of immobilize or snare or freeze. On a 12 second cooldown.

Both are hilariously easy to avoid. L2 kitten ue.

Bet you play one of them :^)
If not, why don’t you try to avoid them as a warrior? Go on

I main a warrior and fighting mesmers is just….ugh. Even with a hammer cc build I can’t lock down a decent mesmer. Sometimes I feel as if they’re playing me with, making a sandwich or minimized screen while they paying their bills online. Its almost like they can simply autoplay.

Its all the more painful in that every patch seems to add yet another buff for mesmers and a nerf for warriors. They have stealth, clones, invulnerability, crazy confusion stacks, range. Just too much for me. I don’t claim to be anything other than an average player, but mesmers just bring to much to the table for me to handle. A CD mesmer was literally toying with 3 of us earlier in wvw. I get the L2P and have began to understand what thieves and eles do and are capable of, but man I just feel like I’m naked without the tools to battle a mesmer at the moment.

Funny how they kitten over epidemic by making it blockable and dodgable whilst leaving the way too long cast time AND YET they wont fix rtl (which effects games way more) by making it consistent with other movement skills and slowing it down due to chills and cripples.

It MUST be a technical issue surely.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Funny how they kitten over epidemic by making it blockable and dodgable whilst leaving the way too long cast time AND YET they wont fix rtl (which effects games way more) by making it consistent with other movement skills and slowing it down due to chills and cripples.

It MUST be a technical issue surely.

I actually thought ppl whining about RTL on Spirit Watch were stupid; I believed that this would obviously be fixed ASAP, because it really is gamebreaking in the sense that you won’t see anything else than a Bunker-Ele running the Orb on that Map.

But what do they do instead? Nerfing RTL (yes, it was a longer time ago) that is actually more useful and necessary for Ele’s that aren’t just playing a Bunker-build, because they actually need their Movement-speed to be good Roamers (they are behind Thief as the main-Roamer in almost every Aspect of whats important to be a good Roamer).

If all you play is hotjoins…

Davinci.8027:

If all you play is hotjoins…

Hot-joins are more fair than tourneys, no premade vs pug nonsense, question is why YOU play tourneys instead of hot-join, you like butchering pug players with your buddies or something?

Khyras.8021:

Davinci.8027:

If all you play is hotjoins…

Hot-joins are more fair than tourneys, no premade vs pug nonsense, question is why YOU play tourneys instead of hot-join, you like butchering pug players with your buddies or something?

Just go away

Khyras.8021:

Davinci.8027:

If all you play is hotjoins…

Hot-joins are more fair than tourneys, no premade vs pug nonsense, question is why YOU play tourneys instead of hot-join, you like butchering pug players with your buddies or something?

THIS IS WHAT THE COMMUNITY HAS BECOME.
SAVE US KARL!

PowerBottom.5796:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Funny how they kitten over epidemic by making it blockable and dodgable whilst leaving the way too long cast time AND YET they wont fix rtl (which effects games way more) by making it consistent with other movement skills and slowing it down due to chills and cripples.

It MUST be a technical issue surely.

I actually thought ppl whining about RTL on Spirit Watch were stupid; I believed that this would obviously be fixed ASAP, because it really is gamebreaking in the sense that you won’t see anything else than a Bunker-Ele running the Orb on that Map.

But what do they do instead? Nerfing RTL (yes, it was a longer time ago) that is actually more useful and necessary for Ele’s that aren’t just playing a Bunker-build, because they actually need their Movement-speed to be good Roamers (they are behind Thief as the main-Roamer in almost every Aspect of whats important to be a good Roamer).

No ele player has ever asked to be a bunker in the first place, let’s put it this way 100% of the ele population has chosen this profession thinking we would have played with the high dps/control profession as found in other games, but this is not clearly the case, they badly designed the ele, giving it a overly low base HP and low/mediocre BASE damage with very low control ( not enough cripple, blind or weakness, furthermore blind is sort of a joke in GW2 compared to GW1..what a let down)

^
That’s what I am saying all the time. I don’t want to be a bunker, I have to or I am just free farm. I would much rather have a mediocre bunker build and a good DPS build instead of a really strong bunker build and no DPS at all.

(The quickness nerf kinda helped but DPS eles are still pretty bad compared to something like a GC mesmer)

haviz.1340:

Caffynated.5713:

-snip-

How do you get 4 cantrips and 4 stun breakers?

Earth’s Embrace (Earth III) gives you Armor of Earth when you reach 50% health.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earth%27s_Embrace

Geff.1930:

Based on reading the march end survey it’s easy to conclude that a majority of players consider Elementalists to be slightly on the OP side. I don’t understand why this is the case based on what I’ve seen while playing, for the following reasons:

1. It seems like a majority of elementalist damage burst avoidable because they are AoE based.
2. While elementalists do have some stun breaks, from my fights against Eles they seem to be very prone to CC. Even if you don’t kill them (likely unless you are with a group) you can force them to use up their few defensive cooldowns and retreat.

Compare this to Mesmers:
1. Blurred Frenzy, most OP skill I have ever seen. 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10 second cooldown, wtf? What other class has 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10s cooldown? I’m not even considering the extra burst.
2. Ilusionary Leap, while technically not a stun break can basically nullify the effects of immobilize or snare or freeze. On a 12 second cooldown.

Sure, but blurred frenzy’s damage is laughable.

Problem with mesmer isn’t finding the real one. In my opinion the real problem with mesmer is the amount of escape and survivability tools they get almost for free.

Try a melee vs. a staff/x mesmer. There is no way to beat that mesmer, if he is any competent. Even multiple melees won’t stand alot of chance, with invuls, stealths, blinks and all sort of nearly uncleansable CC they throw at you. Try to get rid of cripple when the mesmer has the cripple on clone death trait, while using a staff. Unless you can cleanse everything at once you will always be crippled, and even if you remove everything, a second after you will be crippled and burned with a small stack of vul and bleeding on you.

That on it’s own might not be so bad, but in a teamfight, when you have to concentrate on multiple target, a shatter will most likely hit you. On top of that they throw out a nice amount of boons on allies, with chaos storm and winds of chaos, dealing AoE conditions and damage, and providing one of the better combo fields (etheral).

And while it is not hard to distinguish a clone from a real mesmer, they still provide a lot of defense. Ever tried projectiles vs. clone spam with clones on dodge? Unless it is a thief shortbow or other bouncing projectile, they will absorb quite alot of damage, just because they happen to stand in the way. AoE limit of 5, while it seems that this wouldn’t be a problem in tPvP because of 5v5 becomes quite important when there are some summons arounds. Clones and phantasms are the worst offenders here, as they are quite easy to replace, and can be traited to do additional stuff if they get killed.

The individual things of a mesmer don’t seem that bad, but in a package, paired with the overall screenclutter of bigger fights they are on the OP side.

Mesmers are overpowered in the sense of how frustrating their mechanics are.

they have way too many forgiving panic buttons, too much burst and too much team utility to be considered in line with the rest of the classes.

I play an ele, but I don’t roll the infamous cantrip 0/10/0/30/30 build. I play 0/20/0/20/30 zerker and I don’t feel more OP than your average guy. I do admit however, that eles need nerfs for the bunker build. If only they touched the problematic build without destroying my (or other) spec… that would be great.

But since it’s ANet, all I can expect is more RtL nerfs, that boon hate thing (that also affects my build greatly), and more random “fixes”.

Razor.6392:

Mesmers are overpowered in the sense of how frustrating their mechanics are.

they have way too many forgiving panic buttons, too much burst and too much team utility to be considered in line with the rest of the classes.

I play an ele, but I don’t roll the infamous cantrip 0/10/0/30/30 build. I play 0/20/0/20/30 zerker and I don’t feel more OP than your average guy. I do admit however, that eles need nerfs for the bunker build. If only they touched the problematic build without destroying my (or other) spec… that would be great.

But since it’s ANet, all I can expect is more RtL nerfs, that boon hate thing (that also affects my build greatly), and more random “fixes”.

The ele has been designed to be the “jack of all the trades and master or none” profession in this game, at any given time while I can’t have the mega burst of warriors/mesmers/thieves I will still be able to use my skills to bring home the victory

The only way to counter bunker is to use team work ( foreign words to the GW2 community) and wait for the boon hate mechanics + more boon stripping skills, Anet want counters to the current bunker, they won’t ruin the ele any further, we’ve have been receiving damage nerfs since BWE1, because of the crap damage you get even as glass cannon…people simply got tired of getting killed in1s by invisible enemies

Arheundel.6451:

Razor.6392:

Mesmers are overpowered in the sense of how frustrating their mechanics are.

they have way too many forgiving panic buttons, too much burst and too much team utility to be considered in line with the rest of the classes.

I play an ele, but I don’t roll the infamous cantrip 0/10/0/30/30 build. I play 0/20/0/20/30 zerker and I don’t feel more OP than your average guy. I do admit however, that eles need nerfs for the bunker build. If only they touched the problematic build without destroying my (or other) spec… that would be great.

But since it’s ANet, all I can expect is more RtL nerfs, that boon hate thing (that also affects my build greatly), and more random “fixes”.

The ele has been designed to be the “jack of all the trades and master or none” profession in this game, at any given time while I can’t have the mega burst of warriors/mesmers/thieves I will still be able to use my skills to bring home the victory

The only way to counter bunker is to use team work ( foreign words to the GW2 community) and wait for the boon hate mechanics + more boon stripping skills, Anet want counters to the current bunker, they won’t ruin the ele any further, we’ve have been receiving damage nerfs since BWE1, because of the crap damage you get even as glass cannon…people simply got tired of getting killed in1s by invisible enemies

You say teamwork so that’s 3 vs 1 bunker which occurs a lot times in Tpvp when trying to take a node. When you have 4 bunkers or 5 on a team it’s a automatic lost for a diverse squad even with the banner buff support warriors got. It still won’t be enough.

A group fight against 3 mesmers? If you mean 1vs 3 then doesn’t matter what your fighting youll lose. If you mean 3 mesmers in tourney as part of a premade team, that team will get smashed by other premade of remotely equivelant skilled players. that’s why NO TEAMS BRING 3 MESMERS.

Brutalistik.6473:

Arheundel.6451:

Razor.6392:

Mesmers are overpowered in the sense of how frustrating their mechanics are.

they have way too many forgiving panic buttons, too much burst and too much team utility to be considered in line with the rest of the classes.

I play an ele, but I don’t roll the infamous cantrip 0/10/0/30/30 build. I play 0/20/0/20/30 zerker and I don’t feel more OP than your average guy. I do admit however, that eles need nerfs for the bunker build. If only they touched the problematic build without destroying my (or other) spec… that would be great.

But since it’s ANet, all I can expect is more RtL nerfs, that boon hate thing (that also affects my build greatly), and more random “fixes”.

The ele has been designed to be the “jack of all the trades and master or none” profession in this game, at any given time while I can’t have the mega burst of warriors/mesmers/thieves I will still be able to use my skills to bring home the victory

The only way to counter bunker is to use team work ( foreign words to the GW2 community) and wait for the boon hate mechanics + more boon stripping skills, Anet want counters to the current bunker, they won’t ruin the ele any further, we’ve have been receiving damage nerfs since BWE1, because of the crap damage you get even as glass cannon…people simply got tired of getting killed in1s by invisible enemies

You say teamwork so that’s 3 vs 1 bunker which occurs a lot times in Tpvp when trying to take a node. When you have 4 bunkers or 5 on a team it’s a automatic lost for a diverse squad even with the banner buff support warriors got. It still won’t be enough.

Anet got no intention of removing bunkers from the game, personally I’ve got no interest neither in bunkers and people who dislike bunkers, what I’m against is people asking to nerf an entire profession because of one spec.

They will introduce soon, boon hate traits on warriors for sure and other professions for what I can see, furthermore they’ll increase casting time on healing skills so as to allow more easy interruption, a bunker ele is in no way as effective as a guardian when trying to hold a point, it’s easy to force the ele outside the point as the profession lack the multiple blocks and stability on demand that guardian got.

What the ele has got is: mobility and healing burst, two aspect well known to Anet and clearly stated to be part of the intended design.

Next they begin discussing each class in the game, starting with Elementalist. Karl immediately notes that the class has only one real build in high-level play. It is a single build that can do quite literally anything it needs to, from bunkering a point to heavy DPS. This was somewhat deliberate, as the class was intended to be a jack of all trades but master of none. Naturally Arenanet wants to correct this by making other builds more viable.

The class is also known very much for its healing ability. Karl confirmed that is a design decision, and that the goal is for Guardian to be more capable of healing in small doses over time, but for the Elementalist to retain its burst healing.

Xeph pointed out that the combination of self-protection and heavy burst healing makes the class almost unbeatable one on one in the hands of a skilled player. Arenanet noted that they are considering increasing the cast time on the heal and also giving other classes benefits against target stacking boons like an elementalist can.

daydream.2938:

A group fight against 3 mesmers? If you mean 1vs 3 then doesn’t matter what your fighting youll lose. If you mean 3 mesmers in tourney as part of a premade team, that team will get smashed by other premade of remotely equivelant skilled players. that’s why NO TEAMS BRING 3 MESMERS.

Mesmers are 2nd class bunkers compared to ele and guardians has these two got access to strong self-healing…but you trying to say that mesmers are a weak class…is simply ludicrous

Arheundel.6451:

daydream.2938:

A group fight against 3 mesmers? If you mean 1vs 3 then doesn’t matter what your fighting youll lose. If you mean 3 mesmers in tourney as part of a premade team, that team will get smashed by other premade of remotely equivelant skilled players. that’s why NO TEAMS BRING 3 MESMERS.

Mesmers are 2nd class bunkers compared to ele and guardians has these two got access to strong self-healing…but you trying to say that mesmers are a weak class…is simply ludicrous

I never said they are a weak class, I said they are not remotely Op.

daydream.2938:

Arheundel.6451:

daydream.2938:

A group fight against 3 mesmers? If you mean 1vs 3 then doesn’t matter what your fighting youll lose. If you mean 3 mesmers in tourney as part of a premade team, that team will get smashed by other premade of remotely equivelant skilled players. that’s why NO TEAMS BRING 3 MESMERS.

Mesmers are 2nd class bunkers compared to ele and guardians has these two got access to strong self-healing…but you trying to say that mesmers are a weak class…is simply ludicrous

I never said they are a weak class, I said they are not remotely Op.

What should be considered OP then? The healing burst of eles who use cleric amulet?

Maybe you can tell me what a profession speccing in having 13k HP should have then, superior damage? superior control? something else?

Should we remove the healing from eles or toning it down? If that’s the case should we increase the profession base HP by 5k+?