Guild Wars 2

Arheundel.6451:

daydream.2938:

Arheundel.6451:

daydream.2938:

A group fight against 3 mesmers? If you mean 1vs 3 then doesn’t matter what your fighting youll lose. If you mean 3 mesmers in tourney as part of a premade team, that team will get smashed by other premade of remotely equivelant skilled players. that’s why NO TEAMS BRING 3 MESMERS.

Mesmers are 2nd class bunkers compared to ele and guardians has these two got access to strong self-healing…but you trying to say that mesmers are a weak class…is simply ludicrous

I never said they are a weak class, I said they are not remotely Op.

What should be considered OP then? The healing burst of eles who use cleric amulet?

Maybe you can tell me what a profession speccing in having 13k HP should have then, superior damage? superior control? something else?

Should we remove the healing from eles or toning it down? If that’s the case should we increase the profession base HP by 5k+?

Ele’s are midly OP. An equally skilled ele will beat a Mesmer 1on1. has more mobility. Great disengage, and sustain. You see all the top players( those that bother to stream) complain about ele’s. And when the ladder comes out you will see groups with eles near the top. So , yes, eles are stronger than mesmers.

Also I win 90% of my 1vs1 w mesmers, I play engy. And I don’t hotjoin.
Caveat, referring to Mesmer meta specs. You get hotjoin mesmers who think they are great because they are good at 1on1 with there phantasm spec. Those guys would be useless in premade tourney play. Im referring to the mesmers meta viability in 1on1. Not the classes ability to custom build for 1on1.

because a low skilled ele can beat a high skilled mesmer everytime.

same with ranger engi and necro

daydream.2938:

Arheundel.6451:

daydream.2938:

Arheundel.6451:

daydream.2938:

A group fight against 3 mesmers? If you mean 1vs 3 then doesn’t matter what your fighting youll lose. If you mean 3 mesmers in tourney as part of a premade team, that team will get smashed by other premade of remotely equivelant skilled players. that’s why NO TEAMS BRING 3 MESMERS.

Mesmers are 2nd class bunkers compared to ele and guardians has these two got access to strong self-healing…but you trying to say that mesmers are a weak class…is simply ludicrous

I never said they are a weak class, I said they are not remotely Op.

What should be considered OP then? The healing burst of eles who use cleric amulet?

Maybe you can tell me what a profession speccing in having 13k HP should have then, superior damage? superior control? something else?

Should we remove the healing from eles or toning it down? If that’s the case should we increase the profession base HP by 5k+?

Ele’s are midly OP. An equally skilled ele will beat a Mesmer 1on1. has more mobility. Great disengage, and sustain. You see all the top players( those that bother to stream) complain about ele’s. And when the ladder comes out you will see groups with eles near the top. So , yes, eles are stronger than mesmers.

Also I win 90% of my 1vs1 w mesmers, I play engy. And I don’t hotjoin.
Caveat, referring to Mesmer meta specs. You get hotjoin mesmers who think they are great because they are good at 1on1 with there phantasm spec. Those guys would be useless in premade tourney play. Im referring to the mesmers meta viability in 1on1. Not the classes ability to custom build for 1on1.

I’m not contesting your personal skills, I’m contesting the objectivity of your analysis.
I agree with you that a properly specced ele with high healing power can effectively heal himself up to almost full HP with ease( reason why they’ll add increased casting time on healing), now this example cannot be replicated if using an ele with a balanced build, that use soldier or valkyrie amulet.

Why use a soldier/valkrye? Because we can deal really good burst damage and the survivability is still enough to last a 1v1, as of course 1vs2 equally skilled players is basically impossible if using a balanced ele, of course if you’d use a bunker specced ele you can last long enough 1vs2 for help to come, your damage won’t be nearly as effective if using a balanced build.

The ele is a “jack of all trades and master of none” profession, at any given time we cannot have a stronger burst build than mesmer or any other specialized profession, this is the prize you pay for having more burst or bunkering options

-edit-
Against bunkers, on top of boon hate, they could make so rtl get affect by chill/cripple; this would effectively reduce the overall “goodness” of ele bunker while still not making them unviable, at the same time balanced eles won’t suffer because trying to hold a point against impossible odds wasn’t our job to start with, so if we die it’s our mistake

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

because a low skilled ele can beat a high skilled mesmer everytime.

same with ranger engi and necro

So I can take any “low” skilled ele and He’ll beat you easily..ok we need to organize this match, let me see how you lose to a r7 ele, will just ask some new players to face you..of course we’ll stream this match…deal?

In regards to non competitive tpvp, any ok/decent player on a d/d or s/d ele can carry at least one other bad player. I noticed this while solo queuing today. But, I started messing with a confusion/bleed spec mesmer, and although successful, had to work extra hard. But there is only so much you can do. Mesmer’s condition removal and mobility is just awful w.o the access to portal.

I hope they tone down ele and balance other classes because I hate feeling like I HAVE TO jump on an ele in solo queue with the screwy MMR.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Funny how they kitten over epidemic by making it blockable and dodgable whilst leaving the way too long cast time AND YET they wont fix rtl (which effects games way more) by making it consistent with other movement skills and slowing it down due to chills and cripples.

It MUST be a technical issue surely.

This needs to happen, bring eles in line with other charge attacks. They would still be very mobile, but it would be a bit more balanced.

u cannot chill lightning suckers. U are not taking that away from me, nerf the kittening bunker as much as u want but u aint getting rtl.

Also i have said and proved this many times before non shatter mesmer can kill a good (not cleric) ele easily.

D/D Eles are still too strong. They’re insane in 1v1s with only exceptional engis having a shot at beating a really good one (as far as I know). What they bring to a team is ridiculous. Heals, protection, sustained, mobility, CC, cleanses out the kitten front-line presence in a fight as well as 1v1 potential. Of course you aren’t gonna burst people down without a firegrab crit (if it actually lands, start dodging that thing people).

I’m getting tired of it really. Eles are the best class on forest by a LOOOOOONG shot. Teams that don’t bring eles will lose to teams that do 75% of the time.

Ostricheggs.3742:

D/D Eles are still too strong. They’re insane in 1v1s with only exceptional engis having a shot at beating a really good one (as far as I know). What they bring to a team is ridiculous. Heals, protection, sustained, mobility, CC, cleanses out the kitten front-line presence in a fight as well as 1v1 potential. Of course you aren’t gonna burst people down without a firegrab crit (if it actually lands, start dodging that thing people).

I’m getting tired of it really. Eles are the best class on forest by a LOOOOOONG shot. Teams that don’t bring eles will lose to teams that do 75% of the time.

it depends a lot on your team coordination. the game just plays differently without an ele – but i agree, ele on forest is really strong, while it’s rather easy to play without ele on temple f.e.
furthermore d/d is easily beatable as ranger.

Ostricheggs.3742:

D/D Eles are still too strong. They’re insane in 1v1s with only exceptional engis having a shot at beating a really good one (as far as I know). What they bring to a team is ridiculous. Heals, protection, sustained, mobility, CC, cleanses out the kitten front-line presence in a fight as well as 1v1 potential. Of course you aren’t gonna burst people down without a firegrab crit (if it actually lands, start dodging that thing people).

I’m getting tired of it really. Eles are the best class on forest by a LOOOOOONG shot. Teams that don’t bring eles will lose to teams that do 75% of the time.

dude thats not true.Skilled engie wins d/d ele any time unless the ele manages to be really skilled with his dodge button.Th ething is that with the standard build there is not enough dps for the ele to bring down the engie in time and not remotely enough cond removal to cleanse that kitten.Engie wont even need to time the cond application cause aurashare has only 1 cond removal when switching in water and another one when dodging while in water which coud remove..vuln for all i know
Also d/d can easily die to classes like trap ranger and has a pretty wide pool of class builds that cant kill at all..
And whats up with that d/d love??Cause here everyone plays s/d and i cant personally get how range+1extra heal+250 more toughness +heavy spike in team situations is worse than more sustain damage but in melee range.

What I would like to see is that Anet would bring other classes to the same level as mesmers and not nerf mesmers but buff other classes (especially warrior, engineer). Mesmers have only one viable build in tpvp (shatter with slight variations). I know my opinion is biased because I play mesmer myself but this is my idea.

Jackums.3496:

L2P and a Mesmer is hardly as difficult to defeat compared to a good Ele. Mesmers are the bane of new/inexperienced players. Play one yourself for a while and it’s a whole different story. Play an Ele for a while? Doesn’t matter. They’re still going to stomp you in an even fight (assuming they’re of at least equal skill to yourself).

Mesmer player detected? At least when facing an ele you only have to pay attention to what the ele is doing.

There’s no “oh kitten wtfburst inc” when facing an ele unless you consider updraft+burning speed on the same level of leap + blurred frenzy + shatter. Then you realize that that burst has a short cd, and you’re never safe.

There’s also only 1 ele to kill, against a mesmer you constantly have to be destroying illusions and wasting time while the mesmer takes free shots at you.

And before people says that I don’t know which one is the real one, kitten, I know perfectly which is the real one, but that still does nothing when they have like 3 different, instant access to stealth to reset the fight.

@ostricheggs playing bunker ele in hotjoin, notice his low dmg and how skillfully he finish off targets with only 30% HP left
http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/b/384536701

-He has quite high healing power
-Cantrip mastery to reduce cantrips CD by 20%
-Around 14:27, @Ostricheggs gently shows how an ele ( a bunker ele to say the least) can 1v2-3 opponents and win…as He always claim….god forbid he plays a balanced ele without high healing power, healing signet and 30 water…he’d last one fraction of that time
- at 18:09 another display of the ele “ferocity” when a bunker spec run out of cantrips

I can’t fathom you @Ostrichegg playing an offensive ele and stay alive for more than 2s, seen as bunker ele you don’t last 5s against multiple opponents of lower “skill” level

kostbabis.8791:

Ostricheggs.3742:

D/D Eles are still too strong. They’re insane in 1v1s with only exceptional engis having a shot at beating a really good one (as far as I know). What they bring to a team is ridiculous. Heals, protection, sustained, mobility, CC, cleanses out the kitten front-line presence in a fight as well as 1v1 potential. Of course you aren’t gonna burst people down without a firegrab crit (if it actually lands, start dodging that thing people).

I’m getting tired of it really. Eles are the best class on forest by a LOOOOOONG shot. Teams that don’t bring eles will lose to teams that do 75% of the time.

dude thats not true.Skilled engie wins d/d ele any time unless the ele manages to be really skilled with his dodge button.Th ething is that with the standard build there is not enough dps for the ele to bring down the engie in time and not remotely enough cond removal to cleanse that kitten.Engie wont even need to time the cond application cause aurashare has only 1 cond removal when switching in water and another one when dodging while in water which coud remove..vuln for all i know
Also d/d can easily die to classes like trap ranger and has a pretty wide pool of class builds that cant kill at all..
And whats up with that d/d love??Cause here everyone plays s/d and i cant personally get how range+1extra heal+250 more toughness +heavy spike in team situations is worse than more sustain damage but in melee range.

Cleansing fire keeps them alive long enough to keep switching to water. As a quick example, an ele with cleansing fire can last through 2 water rotations where an ele without will last 1 max. It gets worse when you factor in 11 up water. The problem quickly becomes how to burst them down when their large amounts of CC and condi clears end up.

I kitten on most eles. Really, really good ones in d/d without aura share can give me a hard time. But that still doesn’t mean they’re not over the top in every other spec. Everyone brings a guardian to a team, but they can die in 1v1s against a large number of condi specs.

Razor.6392:

Jackums.3496:

L2P and a Mesmer is hardly as difficult to defeat compared to a good Ele. Mesmers are the bane of new/inexperienced players. Play one yourself for a while and it’s a whole different story. Play an Ele for a while? Doesn’t matter. They’re still going to stomp you in an even fight (assuming they’re of at least equal skill to yourself).

Mesmer player detected? At least when facing an ele you only have to pay attention to what the ele is doing.

There’s no “oh kitten wtfburst inc” when facing an ele unless you consider updraft+burning speed on the same level of leap + blurred frenzy + shatter. Then you realize that that burst has a short cd, and you’re never safe.

There’s also only 1 ele to kill, against a mesmer you constantly have to be destroying illusions and wasting time while the mesmer takes free shots at you.

And before people says that I don’t know which one is the real one, kitten, I know perfectly which is the real one, but that still does nothing when they have like 3 different, instant access to stealth to reset the fight.

Wow dude really? Just no… No…
In pvp they will have ONE maybe two access to stealth and these are all on long cooldowns… And resetting fights? Coming from an ele? “Oh lemme just mist form RTL and I am half way across the map now… MUAHAHAHA” Mesmer can go stealth nowhere near as often as you say and we aren’t fast enough to reset the fight. And a true burst from a mes has a LONG cd because a true burst from a mes is preempted by diversion (assuming they are 20/20/0/0/30) other than that it’s just mindwrack which doesn’t do that much damage without might stacks/target vulnerability. They are prolly going to be running staff/sword/focus and decoy or blink then portal and illusion of life… They have no condi removal and even post patch if you aren’t bringing timewarp your team will hate you… So to sum up Mr. Razor when you face a Mesmer in pvp chances are this is what their weapons and slot skills looks like
1. Sword/Focus and Staff
2. Heal=Ether Feast Slot skills=portal, blink, (mirror images or IoL) depending on whoelse is on their team with instant rezz
3. Elite=Timewarp

Where is all this invis you are talking about? When it comes to resetting fights… eles and thieves take that cake. Easy.

Arheundel.6451:

@ostricheggs playing bunker ele in hotjoin, notice his low dmg and how skillfully he finish off targets with only 30% HP left
http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/b/384536701

-He has quite high healing power
-Cantrip mastery to reduce cantrips CD by 20%
-Around 14:27, @Ostricheggs gently shows how an ele ( a bunker ele to say the least) can 1v2-3 opponents and win…as He always claim….god forbid he plays a balanced ele without high healing power, healing signet and 30 water…he’d last one fraction of that time
- at 18:09 another display of the ele “ferocity” when a bunker spec run out of cantrips

I can’t fathom you @Ostrichegg playing an offensive ele and stay alive for more than 2s, seen as bunker ele you don’t last 5s against multiple opponents of lower “skill” level

Playing a hotjoin is not playing a tourney. I only ever kitten around in hotjoins and rarely attempt to actually kill anything. They’re more of a break in between queues than actual tourney try-harding. Furthermore, I never said I was a good ele.

And I understand that most classes are forced into one particular tree and utiltiy line, it’s the same kitten with eles. I have never NOT used a grenade kit because it’s the best kitten thing that engis have. However, to claim that one particularly dominant trait line shouldn’t be nerfed on the grounds that other trees suck kitten is ludicrous. Of course other things should be fixed or buffed.

And “running out” of cantrips is a particularly hard thing to accomplish. I normally play with only one stun break okitten0 second CD. Having three, insane mobility and staying power is heaven on forest.

And I guess I should mention that valkyrie eles are NOT bunkers. They have the same power and crit damage as a zerkers ele but with less crit, slightly made up for by large access to fury. I don’t think I’ve ever played a clerics d/d ele before, that’s just kinda dumb.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Arheundel.6451:

@ostricheggs playing bunker ele in hotjoin, notice his low dmg and how skillfully he finish off targets with only 30% HP left
http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/b/384536701

-He has quite high healing power
-Cantrip mastery to reduce cantrips CD by 20%
-Around 14:27, @Ostricheggs gently shows how an ele ( a bunker ele to say the least) can 1v2-3 opponents and win…as He always claim….god forbid he plays a balanced ele without high healing power, healing signet and 30 water…he’d last one fraction of that time
- at 18:09 another display of the ele “ferocity” when a bunker spec run out of cantrips

I can’t fathom you @Ostrichegg playing an offensive ele and stay alive for more than 2s, seen as bunker ele you don’t last 5s against multiple opponents of lower “skill” level

Playing a hotjoin is not playing a tourney. I only ever kitten around in hotjoins and rarely attempt to actually kill anything. They’re more of a break in between queues than actual tourney try-harding. Furthermore, I never said I was a good ele.

And I understand that most classes are forced into one particular tree and utiltiy line, it’s the same kitten with eles. I have never NOT used a grenade kit because it’s the best kitten thing that engis have. However, to claim that one particularly dominant trait line shouldn’t be nerfed on the grounds that other trees suck kitten is ludicrous. Of course other things should be fixed or buffed.

And “running out” of cantrips is a particularly hard thing to accomplish. I normally play with only one stun break okitten0 second CD. Having three, insane mobility and staying power is heaven on forest.

And I guess I should mention that valkyrie eles are NOT bunkers. They have the same power and crit damage as a zerkers ele but with less crit, slightly made up for by large access to fury. I don’t think I’ve ever played a clerics d/d ele before, that’s just kinda dumb.

I’d be glad if what you suggest would really happen, the fire trait line need some serious work, moving on, about mobility for example they can make so that RTL get affected by chill/cripple so that unwise eles get punished for playing Rambo, and I like the way cantrips works because they’re instant not because they’re stun breaker, we know that a single stun breaker is all you need, I fully agree with you.

I really dislike long casting animation, and conjure/signets are rather useless atm ( save for air signet, which I love to use with staff ).

My suggestion is to change soothing distruption to something like :

-Grant 6s vigor and apply 2/3s chill on nearby foes when using a cantrip-
In this way cleansing water would still be useful ( people may start using inscription+glyph of elemental power ) and bunker eles would be easier to kill, now this along with the proposed RTL change and the incoming boon hate, should make so that nothing but the most skilled eles will survive longer than guardian as bunker

Khyras.8021:

Davinci.8027:

If all you play is hotjoins…

Hot-joins are more fair than tourneys, no premade vs pug nonsense, question is why YOU play tourneys instead of hot-join, you like butchering pug players with your buddies or something?

omg…just…wow…

PowerBottom.5796:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Funny how they kitten over epidemic by making it blockable and dodgable whilst leaving the way too long cast time AND YET they wont fix rtl (which effects games way more) by making it consistent with other movement skills and slowing it down due to chills and cripples.

It MUST be a technical issue surely.

I actually thought ppl whining about RTL on Spirit Watch were stupid; I believed that this would obviously be fixed ASAP, because it really is gamebreaking in the sense that you won’t see anything else than a Bunker-Ele running the Orb on that Map.

But what do they do instead? Nerfing RTL (yes, it was a longer time ago) that is actually more useful and necessary for Ele’s that aren’t just playing a Bunker-build, because they actually need their Movement-speed to be good Roamers (they are behind Thief as the main-Roamer in almost every Aspect of whats important to be a good Roamer).

Did you see what A-net posted, els are suppose to have more attunement and burst healing while able to access a lot of utilities like practically jack of all trades but now their master of all with the 0/10/0/30/30. Next thief are suppose to be the roamer as A-net acclaim them to be with the best mobility in game and mesmer next in-combat mobility. What do we get instead is a all mighty d/d 0/10/0/30/30 bunker ele with lots of survivalbility and good dps even though bunker with the best mobility with rtl/blink/100% swiftness uptime.

Stop complaint about mesmer being op when you obviously play the most op class and practically can outlast a mesmer if your decent. If you want to have the win handed to you,may as well nerf all classes so that ur els can kitten every classes with 1 hand.

Next is how is blur frenzy imba, 2k on a 10sec cd with root you and take 1 sec to cast. It practically easy to dodge and it miss easily as it is hard to cancel when you get push around with cc or when players move out of range.With so little boons uptime like regen/protection/retaliation we can’t even bunker properly let alone being a clothie and being so reliant on traits to be viable mesmer can’t be anything but gc shatter(deal as much dps and go down after your cd are all down) or Phantasm build( kite as long as possible and hope that your illu don’t get stuck in aoe/die or the floor). or a bit less gc condition build. As most player stated once you are experience enough mesmer cheap trick don;t work as well against pro and they get shut down quite easily.

LonelyReaper.8075:

PowerBottom.5796:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Funny how they kitten over epidemic by making it blockable and dodgable whilst leaving the way too long cast time AND YET they wont fix rtl (which effects games way more) by making it consistent with other movement skills and slowing it down due to chills and cripples.

It MUST be a technical issue surely.

I actually thought ppl whining about RTL on Spirit Watch were stupid; I believed that this would obviously be fixed ASAP, because it really is gamebreaking in the sense that you won’t see anything else than a Bunker-Ele running the Orb on that Map.

But what do they do instead? Nerfing RTL (yes, it was a longer time ago) that is actually more useful and necessary for Ele’s that aren’t just playing a Bunker-build, because they actually need their Movement-speed to be good Roamers (they are behind Thief as the main-Roamer in almost every Aspect of whats important to be a good Roamer).

Did you see what A-net posted, els are suppose to have more attunement and burst healing while able to access a lot of utilities like practically jack of all trades but now their master of all with the 0/10/0/30/30. Next thief are suppose to be the roamer as A-net acclaim them to be with the best mobility in game and mesmer next in-combat mobility. What do we get instead is a all mighty d/d 0/10/0/30/30 bunker ele with lots of survivalbility and good dps even though bunker with the best mobility with rtl/blink/100% swiftness uptime.

Stop complaint about mesmer being op when you obviously play the most op class and practically can outlast a mesmer if your decent. If you want to have the win handed to you,may as well nerf all classes so that ur els can kitten every classes with 1 hand.

Next is how is blur frenzy imba, 2k on a 10sec cd with root you and take 1 sec to cast. It practically easy to dodge and it miss easily as it is hard to cancel when you get push around with cc or when players move out of range.With so little boons uptime like regen/protection/retaliation we can’t even bunker properly let alone being a clothie and being so reliant on traits to be viable mesmer can’t be anything but gc shatter(deal as much dps and go down after your cd are all down) or Phantasm build( kite as long as possible and hope that your illu don’t get stuck in aoe/die or the floor). or a bit less gc condition build. As most player stated once you are experience enough mesmer cheap trick don;t work as well against pro and they get shut down quite easily.

Sorry..make up your mind, you can’t be OP and still need to be decent to do good, if you’re OP doesn’t matter if you’re decent or not…you should win always.

Arheundel.6451:

LonelyReaper.8075:

PowerBottom.5796:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Funny how they kitten over epidemic by making it blockable and dodgable whilst leaving the way too long cast time AND YET they wont fix rtl (which effects games way more) by making it consistent with other movement skills and slowing it down due to chills and cripples.

It MUST be a technical issue surely.

I actually thought ppl whining about RTL on Spirit Watch were stupid; I believed that this would obviously be fixed ASAP, because it really is gamebreaking in the sense that you won’t see anything else than a Bunker-Ele running the Orb on that Map.

But what do they do instead? Nerfing RTL (yes, it was a longer time ago) that is actually more useful and necessary for Ele’s that aren’t just playing a Bunker-build, because they actually need their Movement-speed to be good Roamers (they are behind Thief as the main-Roamer in almost every Aspect of whats important to be a good Roamer).

Did you see what A-net posted, els are suppose to have more attunement and burst healing while able to access a lot of utilities like practically jack of all trades but now their master of all with the 0/10/0/30/30. Next thief are suppose to be the roamer as A-net acclaim them to be with the best mobility in game and mesmer next in-combat mobility. What do we get instead is a all mighty d/d 0/10/0/30/30 bunker ele with lots of survivalbility and good dps even though bunker with the best mobility with rtl/blink/100% swiftness uptime.

Stop complaint about mesmer being op when you obviously play the most op class and practically can outlast a mesmer if your decent. If you want to have the win handed to you,may as well nerf all classes so that ur els can kitten every classes with 1 hand.

Next is how is blur frenzy imba, 2k on a 10sec cd with root you and take 1 sec to cast. It practically easy to dodge and it miss easily as it is hard to cancel when you get push around with cc or when players move out of range.With so little boons uptime like regen/protection/retaliation we can’t even bunker properly let alone being a clothie and being so reliant on traits to be viable mesmer can’t be anything but gc shatter(deal as much dps and go down after your cd are all down) or Phantasm build( kite as long as possible and hope that your illu don’t get stuck in aoe/die or the floor). or a bit less gc condition build. As most player stated once you are experience enough mesmer cheap trick don;t work as well against pro and they get shut down quite easily.

Sorry..make up your mind, you can’t be OP and still need to be decent to do good, if you’re OP doesn’t matter if you’re decent or not…you should win always.

No matter what a mesmer cannot disengage a fight against an ele. Without signet of inspiration for some swiftness or focus for swiftness we move too slow in combat. In competitive gameplay mesmer even run without a blink and the only stun breaker and escape is decoy with have a 30sec cd as we will have portal and illu of life. So no matter how well the mezmer is a good ele always shut down the mesmer after some time. As for your reason , pro will always shut down a noob ele as they dunno what to watch for dunno which is the real mez or even time their own cd. So yes as what i stated it still stand, you have to be a decent player in gw2 to play, this is not wow that have a cookie cutter build with macros and step on how to pvp with your classes by 1 button spamming.

Mesmers were OP.

Then I found out about “Turn off All Enemy Names”.

Now, mesmer are free points!

Arheundel.6451:

daydream.2938:

A group fight against 3 mesmers? If you mean 1vs 3 then doesn’t matter what your fighting youll lose. If you mean 3 mesmers in tourney as part of a premade team, that team will get smashed by other premade of remotely equivelant skilled players. that’s why NO TEAMS BRING 3 MESMERS.

Mesmers are 2nd class bunkers compared to ele and guardians has these two got access to strong self-healing…but you trying to say that mesmers are a weak class…is simply ludicrous

As stated by daydream, no team in their right mind will bring 3 mesmer, we can’t hold node long enough to win the game. Next 3 mesmer vs the other team 3 diverse profession will alway tend to lose. We barely survive with our cd if you include blink and mass invi in aoe situation (our core mechanic requires illu which get taken out easily in team fights). So if vs a 3 diverse profession we will waste cd to just stomp a player and get risk of getting killed while stomping them. So i dunno how is that op.

Arheundel.6451:

daydream.2938:

Arheundel.6451:

daydream.2938:

A group fight against 3 mesmers? If you mean 1vs 3 then doesn’t matter what your fighting youll lose. If you mean 3 mesmers in tourney as part of a premade team, that team will get smashed by other premade of remotely equivelant skilled players. that’s why NO TEAMS BRING 3 MESMERS.

Mesmers are 2nd class bunkers compared to ele and guardians has these two got access to strong self-healing…but you trying to say that mesmers are a weak class…is simply ludicrous

I never said they are a weak class, I said they are not remotely Op.

What should be considered OP then? The healing burst of eles who use cleric amulet?

Maybe you can tell me what a profession speccing in having 13k HP should have then, superior damage? superior control? something else?

Should we remove the healing from eles or toning it down? If that’s the case should we increase the profession base HP by 5k+?

Shouldn’t you be crying pls give els other viable build instead of crying op for mesmer which is just another class that need more viable build. Instead of directing all the attention to another class that isn’t op so that you can hope that A-net will nerf some other class instead of what you find interesting, you should go straight to the source and ask them to fix ele give them more viable build, make fire gc spec some what viable(burst all u can and die after your cd down like a shatter mez) or some other spec.

Poor mesmers… One of the hardest classes to play in tourneys but they get a bad rep because new players don’t understand them. The time warp nerf hit em hard.

I remember when I didn’t know what illusionary leap was

Ladies and Gentlemen,
when complaining about mesmer pls at least state:
1) Game mode
2) WHAT SPEC THE MEZMER YOU ARE FACING!
3) why is it difficult and what you consider op

what i see every1 complaining about mezmer dunno what mesmer is at all. I see shatter with phantasm that hit like a truck and condition you can’t handle. That is like summing 3 different spec that have different weakness and str into 1 and saying that demon mesmer is op!!!

Competative mode: only 1 escape utility pair with staff #2 and sword #2 for shatter mez which most tpvp mez run.

So if you want to compare hot join yes, we run 1 blink/1 decoy(invi)/1 condition remover/ and most probably mass invi now. So yeah we can hell annoying but not op!

Ostricheggs.3742:

Poor mesmers… One of the hardest classes to play in tourneys but they get a bad rep because new players don’t understand them. The time warp nerf hit em hard.

I remember when I didn’t know what illusionary leap was

yeah and illusionary leap barely connects, and the AI don’t tag along close enough for us to root the target with it’s swap. So i don’t know how a broken buggy skill is op, unless your a standing target.

These threads and their rubbish.

Mesmers are pretty medicore right now. Bring some stuns, save your evades for shatters and take your time. You have to plant your skills carefully.

Burning does wonders. Not only can you see them when they go invisi, but it’s usually great pressure.

If your melee, then keep on top of them. Don’t let them have any distance.

Range is good too if you have support (like a pet or minions). Illusions can easily get stuck on your supports, letting you focus on the mes.

There’s so much you can do to make any mesmer eat the dirt. So please stop crying about all of the mechanics YOU can’t beat. Just spend more time using that brain of yours and practice.

wookie.8934:

Asomal.6453:

1. Blurred Frenzy, most OP skill I have ever seen. 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10 second cooldown, wtf? What other class has 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10s cooldown? I’m not even considering the extra burst.
2. Ilusionary Leap, while technically not a stun break can basically nullify the effects of immobilize or snare or freeze. On a 12 second cooldown.

Both are hilariously easy to avoid. L2 kitten ue. In a matchup between an equally good mesmer and ele, the ele will win more often than not – by a significant margin I’m betting.

if the mesmer tries to hold the node , yes. If the mesmer let you neutralize it, no.

You see, every1 uses mez as a scapegoat to direct hate to, a class that have a steep learning curve and awareness to fight. Yeah their like thief , banes of all newbies but worst than theifs in running away as invi doesn’t last as long and lack of movespeed to disengage fights. Lots of players also don’t understand their combo enough or like i said can’t differentiate the different mesmer and their combo to know what to look out for. So how are mez op when their win over them, when their barely understand their opponent.

LonelyReaper.8075:

Arheundel.6451:

daydream.2938:

Arheundel.6451:

daydream.2938:

A group fight against 3 mesmers? If you mean 1vs 3 then doesn’t matter what your fighting youll lose. If you mean 3 mesmers in tourney as part of a premade team, that team will get smashed by other premade of remotely equivelant skilled players. that’s why NO TEAMS BRING 3 MESMERS.

Mesmers are 2nd class bunkers compared to ele and guardians has these two got access to strong self-healing…but you trying to say that mesmers are a weak class…is simply ludicrous

I never said they are a weak class, I said they are not remotely Op.

What should be considered OP then? The healing burst of eles who use cleric amulet?

Maybe you can tell me what a profession speccing in having 13k HP should have then, superior damage? superior control? something else?

Should we remove the healing from eles or toning it down? If that’s the case should we increase the profession base HP by 5k+?

Shouldn’t you be crying pls give els other viable build instead of crying op for mesmer which is just another class that need more viable build. Instead of directing all the attention to another class that isn’t op so that you can hope that A-net will nerf some other class instead of what you find interesting, you should go straight to the source and ask them to fix ele give them more viable build, make fire gc spec some what viable(burst all u can and die after your cd down like a shatter mez) or some other spec.

Done that plenty of time my friend!
I created multiple threads asking for various fixes on the ele profession, the ones worth to recall :

- Increase of base HP by 5k and removal of water heals
- Increase of control skill ( more chill/cripple/blind and weakness) and removal of heals
- More base damage on scepter/staff
- Better fire/air trait, along with better glyph/signets
- Completely rework conjures and elites
- Remove regeneration from soothing disruption trait and add 2/3s chill on nearby foes

All of them have been openly rejected and the only things that Anet has ever done after creating thread after thread ( not that I say that Anet follow my words) is to decrease CD on signet of earth, increase duration of fire shield to 5s and add weakness to lightning touch removing the useless vulnerability ( even though the 10s CD wasn’t really necessary but oh well)

Finally , nowhere on this thread I ever said that mesmers need nerfs, I simply said that mesmer have got 1-2 viable builds and don’t know about mesmers enough to ask for any buff, but yeah you’re right it’s always better to ask for fixes on your favourite profession rather than ask for nerfs on other professions.

I know far too well when people want to see your only viable option being nerfed to the ground without even realizing how much you still miss to even consider any other viable option

Blackjack.5621:

wookie.8934:

Asomal.6453:

1. Blurred Frenzy, most OP skill I have ever seen. 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10 second cooldown, wtf? What other class has 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10s cooldown? I’m not even considering the extra burst.
2. Ilusionary Leap, while technically not a stun break can basically nullify the effects of immobilize or snare or freeze. On a 12 second cooldown.

Both are hilariously easy to avoid. L2 kitten ue. In a matchup between an equally good mesmer and ele, the ele will win more often than not – by a significant margin I’m betting.

if the mesmer tries to hold the node , yes. If the mesmer let you neutralize it, no.

If you let the Ele neutralize the node the Ele has already won because the goal of conquest is points, not who would win in a 1v1.

Although even if you fight off a node an Ele would still either win through attrition or it will be a stalemate. And even if the Ele makes numerous mistakes and get caught in multiple shatter bursts they can simply RTL away and heal back up to full and come back. This is the primary reason Eles are so strong on Forest and Mesmers are so weak on that map, because Eles can assault the Mesmer’s point very easily and escape with near impunity, while at the same time defend their own backpoint as they are zoning out the bottom lane.

All i play is mez and i admit mind wrack is powerful as ****. Increasing its casting time to stupid levels (lets say 2sec) would destroy this skill completely and not the way to go. My suggestion would be 1) Mental Torment is WAAAAAAAAY too powerful for Adept tree, put it in Master tree or decrease damage to 10% instead of 20%. 2) Swap cry of frustration CD with mind wrack, this will make a lot of people cry but still better than decreasing mind wrack damage by ~25% cuz you know anet will do it one day.

edit: another thing if they decrease Mental Torment damage to 10%, they could decrease Illusionary Persona damage by 50% (yes i know that **** load) and that would significantly decrease “opness” of shatter builds in pvp BUT if they do this they better give us traits to deal better with conditions and other useful things. An idea i had is, lose a condition per shattered illusion (up to three condis) every 10 or 15sec.

Mesmers aren’t OP, imo. They are just cheap against any melee spec.

@Nuka. I kind of think that is why our shatters are so strong we can’t really afford to hang around and try to lose the conditions… We are the only class that doesn’t get it in any heal skill and this is supposed to be our weakness.

Geff.1930:

Based on reading the march end survey it’s easy to conclude that a majority of players consider Elementalists to be slightly on the OP side. I don’t understand why this is the case based on what I’ve seen while playing, for the following reasons:

1. It seems like a majority of elementalist damage burst avoidable because they are AoE based.
2. While elementalists do have some stun breaks, from my fights against Eles they seem to be very prone to CC. Even if you don’t kill them (likely unless you are with a group) you can force them to use up their few defensive cooldowns and retreat.

Compare this to Mesmers:
1. Blurred Frenzy, most OP skill I have ever seen. 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10 second cooldown, wtf? What other class has 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10s cooldown? I’m not even considering the extra burst.
2. Ilusionary Leap, while technically not a stun break can basically nullify the effects of immobilize or snare or freeze. On a 12 second cooldown.

I think the real problem with Elementalists is that in addition to everything else they do it’s essentially impossible to push them off of a point. I’m not saying Mesmers are bad, but I don’t think they’re OP, in fact I think they’re at a level of strength that is healthy for the game and the devs should try to bring every other class to that level, be it though nerfing or buffing.

You can most certainly push a Mesmer off of a point, and quite easily I might add, depending on your class (not Warriors lol.)
But actually though, pretty much any class aside from a warrior and maybe a thief can shove a Mesmer off of a point, I’ve yet to see a class effectively do the same to an Ele without untold amounts of blood, sweat, tears, and human sacrifice.

EDIT: silly spelling error.

Mesmers are in a weird spot, I feel like they are overpowered. For one the game does almost all the work for you. A Mesmer can assault a point by standing in the background sending in clones and stuff from afar you fight the computer more then the player. And it’s like if you don’t kill tge phantasm and stuff they sit there and burst you down, if you do kill them they explode and give you conditions and stuff. Maybe I feel like this because how much extra work for half the results as a 3 kit engineer.

Raijinn.9065:

Mesmers are in a weird spot, I feel like they are overpowered. For one the game does almost all the work for you. A Mesmer can assault a point by standing in the background sending in clones and stuff from afar you fight the computer more then the player. And it’s like if you don’t kill tge phantasm and stuff they sit there and burst you down, if you do kill them they explode and give you conditions and stuff. Maybe I feel like this because how much extra work for half the results as a 3 kit engineer.

Let’s clear a few things up:

- A Mesmer does not have ranged burst damage. The only legitimate burst they have is Mind Wrack and if they are at range the damage will a) not be instant as all the clones have to walk to you first and b) you will only receive a 3 clone shatter maximum as opposed to a 4 clone shatter.

- At range, mesmers have decent sustained damage, but this takes forever to set up and can be countered easily by destroying illusions.

- Phantasms and clones will not leave conditions on death unless traited and this is only traited in a condition build. In addition, killing illusions at range will prevent them from spreading conditions to you.

The problem is not the clones, the problem is the fact that:

1. They are practically impervious to any kind of CC.
2. They are immune to damage or CC from all sources 20% of the time as a result of Blurred Frenzy(2 sec invulverability, 10 sec CD).

Why do I say they are practically immune to CC? (disregarding CC invulnerability from Blurred frenzy) Swap teleports them even if they are immobilized (not sure if this is intended). It is not affected by the Cripple at all (unlike most movement skills). It might also break Stun (although I’m not sure about this). All this on a kittening 12 second cooldown?

I’ve heard that the staff skill Phase Retreat behaves similarly if traited (10 second cooldown).

Here is a melee class fighting a Mesmer:
1st Approach: stunned from magic bullet (2 sec wasted), then afterwards blurred frenzy (2 sec wasted), then swap.
2nd Approach: knockback from Illusionary Wave(if offhand GS). Or phase retreat(if offhand staff), or invis(if torch).
3rd Approach: blurred frenzy, swap

repeat.

Nuka Cola.8520:

All i play is mez and i admit mind wrack is powerful as ****. Increasing its casting time to stupid levels (lets say 2sec) would destroy this skill completely and not the way to go. My suggestion would be 1) Mental Torment is WAAAAAAAAY too powerful for Adept tree, put it in Master tree or decrease damage to 10% instead of 20%. 2) Swap cry of frustration CD with mind wrack, this will make a lot of people cry but still better than decreasing mind wrack damage by ~25% cuz you know anet will do it one day.

edit: another thing if they decrease Mental Torment damage to 10%, they could decrease Illusionary Persona damage by 50% (yes i know that **** load) and that would significantly decrease “opness” of shatter builds in pvp BUT if they do this they better give us traits to deal better with conditions and other useful things. An idea i had is, lose a condition per shattered illusion (up to three condis) every 10 or 15sec.

i hope u know what you are saying and next hot join does not mean balance. Nerfing shatter not only kill our dps but also kill pve mesmer. So don’t simply state stuff you are not sure about.

Shatter have a small aoe, it happen around the illusion. Most good players will run away and dodge into the illusion as they shatter(its so obvious when all the clones run after you.) Out of all your shatter, maybe one will hit some1 that is close to the target.

Next have you wonder why most mesmer are in gc build. Its becuz any other gear render u useless, try to build a soldier gear and see if u can win a fight or even a knight gear. We have to practically kill the target and time our cd to take down the opponent before they kill us.

Raijinn.9065:

Mesmers are in a weird spot, I feel like they are overpowered. For one the game does almost all the work for you. A Mesmer can assault a point by standing in the background sending in clones and stuff from afar you fight the computer more then the player. And it’s like if you don’t kill tge phantasm and stuff they sit there and burst you down, if you do kill them they explode and give you conditions and stuff. Maybe I feel like this because how much extra work for half the results as a 3 kit engineer.

An condition semi bunker HgH engi practically kitten a mesmer of the same lvl. Illu dies from aoe and condition. Mesmer can’t cleanse enough condition fast enough compare to how fast they are reapplied. An engine with bomb with flame or grenade kits kite us around and the cc flame and bomb kit offer practically hit us off our rhythm.

Geff.1930:

The problem is not the clones, the problem is the fact that:

1. They are practically impervious to any kind of CC.
2. They are immune to damage or CC from all sources 20% of the time as a result of Blurred Frenzy(2 sec invulverability, 10 sec CD).

Why do I say they are practically immune to CC? (disregarding CC invulnerability from Blurred frenzy) Swap teleports them even if they are immobilized (not sure if this is intended). It is not affected by the Cripple at all (unlike most movement skills). It might also break Stun (although I’m not sure about this). All this on a kittening 12 second cooldown?

I’ve heard that the staff skill Phase Retreat behaves similarly if traited (10 second cooldown).

Here is a melee class fighting a Mesmer:
1st Approach: stunned from magic bullet (2 sec wasted), then afterwards blurred frenzy (2 sec wasted), then swap.
2nd Approach: knockback from Illusionary Wave(if offhand GS). Or phase retreat(if offhand staff), or invis(if torch).
3rd Approach: blurred frenzy, swap

repeat.

How can you cry mesmer is op when you don’t even know enough of they mechanic and play style. Ele have so much pbaoe that can break illusion without a sweat, you have unlimited dodge in that spec too so learn to dodge shatter, at most u get hit by 2 instead of 4 when you get rooted. Next learn how illusionary leap work, it so easy to dodge unless u think ele should be given a immunity to root , dodge be stupid and rush in rtl > updraft > lightning aura> your fire leap skill > fire ring aoe > fire grab and that let a mesmer to slot a leap and swap in between. I also don’t see this invulnerable thing u say mesmer have almost all the time.
If we take tpvp shatter mez into account,
1) 2 sec blurred frenzy on a 10 sec cd( 8 sec window of combat)
2) 48 sec cd distortion ( that need illusion up to have more than 1 sec invulnerability)

if you want to compare, ele
1) regen remove condition
2) rtl (ur so much better gap closer)
3) blink (we don’t even get to bring it in tpvp)
4) assortment of boons that has almost 70% up time
5) burst heals
6) Mist form (invunerability) and down skill to safely run out of team fight to heal up.
7)dodge roll aoes and heal.

You have these abilities to survive why must mesmer without those and suppose to use our own mind tricks and short invulnerability to survive be nerf. Like i stated , mesmer have a learning curve to go against their not op, their annoying that a large difference in that.

Ele are annoying too, they are hard to die and which they can run and come back and slowly wear you down. So in term of annoyance, it just a different type and is just trick that a tired brain from work have to handle in a game of enjoyment or a test of a tired person patience/perseverance.

Geff.1930:

Here is a melee class fighting a Mesmer:
1st Approach: stunned from magic bullet (2 sec wasted), then afterwards blurred frenzy (2 sec wasted), then swap.
2nd Approach: knockback from Illusionary Wave(if offhand GS). Or phase retreat(if offhand staff), or invis(if torch).
3rd Approach: blurred frenzy, swap

Here what that noob did wrong,
1) Did you not see him face a pistol at you. (team fight what make you think a headshot, Concussion Shot won’t stop you)
2) Leap take time to hit and swap, why are you standing still and not dodge or moving from that clone.
3) Thk god he wave, now i have to just wait for zerker, dodge and leap right at his face so he can either waste a dodge or go invi
4) not condition mesmer wield a sword now, so so torch is out of scenario and didn’t you just say magic bullet.
5) which idoit mesmer gonna waste their phase retreat so that can get hit without their defensive cd.
6) How a 2sec ish 2k blurred frenzy gonna hurt when ur ele heals almost 2k per dodge roll( i think it got nerf but still you got regen almost 100% up time)
7) if the mes weapon swap blurred frenzy won’t show up till another 10 sec or more.

So choose what you like, you keep complaining about something you don’t know, next Pick your CHOICE, which MESMER IS IT!!!! Don’t sum 3 mesmer into 1 and call mesmer op!!!! their all different have have different str and weakness.

Just becuz your ele have a skill cycle to meet does not mean that another profession must be nerf to compensate your skill cycle so that you can win in your style.

i don’t think that d/d eles are such a threat. i mean they are hard to kill yes, but since they are mostly completely bunker and most of their attacks are avoidable the can’t kill you that easily either. and if they they on a node (without running away, healing and coming back, which would allow you to take the node) they wont survive long enough.

CJay.4067:

i don’t think that d/d eles are such a threat. i mean they are hard to kill yes, but since they are mostly completely bunker and most of their attacks are avoidable the can’t kill you that easily either. and if they they on a node (without running away, healing and coming back, which would allow you to take the node) they wont survive long enough.

Difference is gc vs bunker, gc is needed to take out a bunker and bunker dmg still hurt a gc spec. The only problem with ele is they have too much mobility for their burst heals or too much healing for their mobility. Choose 1 and that what make them so powerful now in tpvp. Their 1 of the better bunkers that still hurts even as a bunker, and with their heals and mobility they will most of the time win you after a longer period of time. So most gc are burst, so if you survive their burst you practically win that fight.

Op Op Op….. The ele will get the right nerfs in future to be still a viable class.

Problem at tpvp now, you cant run a team without an Ele and messmer…. these classes are must hves, here should be take also work on.

The Ele probs are still visible, no need to talk more about it. Dev should know what to nerf..

The thing why Messmers are must have in a grp, the utilitys are way too strong and MUCH.

Messmer got portal, timewarp and rez illusion…. no other class got that kitten nice utility for team pvp….

At least 1 part should be removed to be viable for playing without a messmer. Portal is an class unique, also timewarp. so only the illusion rez could be removed. Maybe than its viable for playing without an messmer in the team….

Ele also needs an special nerf for team playing for example attutment’s boni doesnt count for your team mates,lower the mobility…

I still only wanna see more viable Team builds without mind. 3 fix main parts….

illusion of life isn’t that op, every1 else got better rez signet than a mez. time warp got nerf but i not sure if portal is op though that may be subjective.

you dont understand it, the Skills as single type aren’t nearly OP, but ALL together on one Char it’s for sure… none other character have any kind of numbered imbalanced tpvp skills.

so option one, give each class an kind of portal
option 2: remove the rez completly at the messmer

or option 3, you wont see any top team running without this class.

did you ever visit the mesmer forum, we always wish we could have other buffs instead of portal, illu of life and time warp to be viable.

Though it is not that these we should remove this but all classes must have more viable spec and more utility they can bring to the team. These will create more meta in the game and you will have a more interesting team composition which will lead to more interesting and intensive play.

The current balance is really wrecking most class , pigeon holding them into 1 -2 spec , team are running with most ly 1-2 powerful profession that is needed to win. That how bad tpvp is now.

Sure, each class need more specs, but some specs also need a hotfix.

Rest agree