Guild Wars 2

ronpierce.2760:

robertul.3679:

It’s not engineer that’s ruining pvp it’s the turkittens.
Big difference.

Its safer to say all engineer. Turrets are ruining low-tier pvp for low tier players, frustrating for higher tier, and Celestial Rifle/Grenade engi is far too powerful in high tier (or really any tier, just turrets are quicker to be effective in lower tiers).

Yep.

As if Skull Crack instant cast is cancer but not Overcharge Shot instant cast or bulls charge not getting any “buffs” while slick shoes eats through evades and is EASY TO LAND while being buffed to a 23 second stun break.

This game is about abusing cancer, and I will keep trying to prove that until ANET starts learning actual balance principles.

BlackBeard.2873:

choov, please stop defending turret engies.

1. The amount of damage for this bunker build is insane. It’s brawler-level damage + full-bunker sustain. Bunker guardian can’t really burst, hard-cc, or kill anyone unless they are silly enough to stick around for a 1v1. You can pew pew pew on a bunker guardian all day and never get any pressure. Usually you quickly understand that its better to go elsewhere rather than 1v1, but you aren’t stuck limping away with 30% health, or dead.
2. Due to the cc and damage, most builds that CAN 1v1 end up having to give up the point. It is a net win for the turret engie if they get even a neut and hold that for 20s. Usually they get the cap and hold it for a good minute at least.
3. Empirical evidence: A team with 2 turret engies beat a team as good as APEX 1 game, almost won a 2nd game (lost to lord), and made a poor decision that caused them to lose the 3rd. Even if you don’t think APEX is one of the best teams in NA, a team with that level of skill should be able to laugh at turret engies (an incredibly easy AI build). It’s good to have good strategies that allow new players to ingratiate into the game (like a rocket launcher in FPS games) – you get some kills and aren’t useless. However, while that player can use a simple strategy to start out, they can’t even come close to competing with the best players. Apparently in GW2, you can use one of the most mindless strategies and even make money for it. I think I should make a turret team, we could probably make it to 2nd round and maybe even finals of ESL!

personally i have never had problems with turret engineers in pvp. sure, i’ve had them kill teammates but i deal with them. i like having sup crate dropped on me on my engi, as i can kill the whole thing in seconds with bombs, then drop mine on them. maybe it’s just that my hybrid bunker builds counter them. feel like it would be helpful if people posted the builds they have trouble with turret engi on. i would say all of the ‘meta’ builds should be able to deal with it, well apart from guardian i’ve never played the class properly so i can’t say.

choovanski.5462:

BlackBeard.2873:

choov, please stop defending turret engies.

1. The amount of damage for this bunker build is insane. It’s brawler-level damage + full-bunker sustain. Bunker guardian can’t really burst, hard-cc, or kill anyone unless they are silly enough to stick around for a 1v1. You can pew pew pew on a bunker guardian all day and never get any pressure. Usually you quickly understand that its better to go elsewhere rather than 1v1, but you aren’t stuck limping away with 30% health, or dead.
2. Due to the cc and damage, most builds that CAN 1v1 end up having to give up the point. It is a net win for the turret engie if they get even a neut and hold that for 20s. Usually they get the cap and hold it for a good minute at least.
3. Empirical evidence: A team with 2 turret engies beat a team as good as APEX 1 game, almost won a 2nd game (lost to lord), and made a poor decision that caused them to lose the 3rd. Even if you don’t think APEX is one of the best teams in NA, a team with that level of skill should be able to laugh at turret engies (an incredibly easy AI build). It’s good to have good strategies that allow new players to ingratiate into the game (like a rocket launcher in FPS games) – you get some kills and aren’t useless. However, while that player can use a simple strategy to start out, they can’t even come close to competing with the best players. Apparently in GW2, you can use one of the most mindless strategies and even make money for it. I think I should make a turret team, we could probably make it to 2nd round and maybe even finals of ESL!

personally i have never had problems with turret engineers in pvp. sure, i’ve had them kill teammates but i deal with them. i like having sup crate dropped on me on my engi, as i can kill the whole thing in seconds with bombs, then drop mine on them. maybe it’s just that my hybrid bunker builds counter them. feel like it would be helpful if people posted the builds they have trouble with turret engi on. i would say all of the ‘meta’ builds should be able to deal with it, well apart from guardian i’ve never played the class properly so i can’t say.

It’s not about what classes can kill them. It’s about by the time you whittle away some neckbeard’s sentinel hp you usually will be +1ed.

Seriously sick of seeing turret engis on EVERY single match. Or a combination of engis,
or teams of all engis.

WHEN WILL THIS CLASS BE FREAKING BALANCED?!

Here I am playing mesmer a class that has been deleted from the meta several fricking times, and engi has been sitting comfy on it’s flipping high horse for over a year now. So I ask when will it finally be bad to stack engis, when will god kitten incendiary powder be nerfed? And for the love of god when will you finally make it so someone actually needs a half a brain to play turret engis. Actually I wouldn’t care if you deleted the entire god kitten ed turret spec from the game. Your game is becoming less and less fun the more engis there are in it.

And please don’t tell me that cele rifle engi is “sooooooooo hard to play” it’s not and you know it.

Seriously sick fo the entire kitten ed class. What’s worse is all these engis think they are “good” when the freaking turret or cele ammy is doing all the work for them.

jportell.2197:

Seriously sick fo the entire kitten ed class. What’s worse is all these engis think they are “good” when the freaking turret or cele ammy is doing all the work for them.

And slick shoes which you cant even dodge – thats some serious bs here.

Scoobaniec.9561:

jportell.2197:

Seriously sick fo the entire kitten ed class. What’s worse is all these engis think they are “good” when the freaking turret or cele ammy is doing all the work for them.

And slick shoes which you cant even dodge – thats some serious bs here.

Ahh yes can’t forget about slick shoes!

What really cracks me up is Anet is trying sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hard to make mesmers the “lockdown” class. Yet I can think off the top of my head why engis already have that covered:

• Slick Shoes (unblockable btw, guess how many unblockable interrupts freaking mesmers have?!)
• Accelerant packed turrets
• Launch on a freaking 15s CD, because anet says “HELL YES!”
• Net shot.
• Magnet pull (also unblockable, because REASONS!)

And then we have the near spammable soft CC which comes in the form of

• Frost grenade
• Throw wrench
• Box of nails

Then add to it, medium armor, and HP, Plus an absolute butt ton of survivability in the form of healing turret which if you look at all the “meta” classes they have healing skills that are either totally uninterruptable, or require the absolute best of luck to interrupt.

Has been this way for quite sometime too. I’m not saying it is the cause that all these classes engis include are dominating pvp. It certainly, does not hurt.

But Turret Engi/Minion Necro/Auto Attack SB Spirit Ranger are like the best builds ever.
In all serious the things that irk me about PvP are;

Minion/Ai Builds
Passive weapon procs (Eg Air/Fire/Earth ect)
Stealth

They don’t belong in PvP – they should seperate turret/minions builds from PvP and make them powerful in PvE/WvW (Though they’ll need AoE resistance lol) but an entry level build for PvP – nothing more.

I do play turret engi to troll people though, it’s so bad xD

Page bug
#15char

I experience this in solo q where i rush to mid and i was wtf turrents everywhere,
but the engi is not even there he just put his turrets and cap another point.
Takes a while before i destroy the turrets and 2 enemies come rushing towards
i use all my utilities just to survive those turrets so when the real players are rushing
on the point i have 25% HP they deal with me pretty easily.

jportell.2197:

• Magnet pull (also unblockable, because REASONS!)

“I have a magnet”

“ah, but I have a shield!”

“m a g n e t… You know what they do right? What’s your shield made of, cheese?”

I can only defend engi soft cc, it’s what they do as a class. Dps is generally lower than most professions unless you go full celestial hybrid but that’s more of an amulet issue…

Everyone bashes overcharge shot but ignores the fact it’s a self knockback that can be a death sentence if you mess up… Magnet pull has the biggest telegraph I’ve ever seen… L2p there.

Bash turrets all you like #spits# they’re a poison mechanic in PvP.

#saynototurrets

jportell.2197:

Seriously sick of seeing turret engis on EVERY single match. Or a combination of engis,
or teams of all engis.

WHEN WILL THIS CLASS BE FREAKING BALANCED?!

Here I am playing mesmer a class that has been deleted from the meta several fricking times, and engi has been sitting comfy on it’s flipping high horse for over a year now. So I ask when will it finally be bad to stack engis, when will god kitten incendiary powder be nerfed? And for the love of god when will you finally make it so someone actually needs a half a brain to play turret engis. Actually I wouldn’t care if you deleted the entire god kitten ed turret spec from the game. Your game is becoming less and less fun the more engis there are in it.

And please don’t tell me that cele rifle engi is “sooooooooo hard to play” it’s not and you know it.

I share your sentiment, I pretty much stop using my Mesmer main when I sPvP, but it’s the same ol’ story, 2 to 3 engie in most of my games and it really is getting out of hand.

Peutrifectus.4830:

jportell.2197:

• Magnet pull (also unblockable, because REASONS!)

“I have a magnet”

“ah, but I have a shield!”

“m a g n e t… You know what they do right? What’s your shield made of, cheese?”

I can only defend engi soft cc, it’s what they do as a class. Dps is generally lower than most professions unless you go full celestial hybrid but that’s more of an amulet issue…

Everyone bashes overcharge shot but ignores the fact it’s a self knockback that can be a death sentence if you mess up… Magnet pull has the biggest telegraph I’ve ever seen… L2p there.

Bash turrets all you like #spits# they’re a poison mechanic in PvP.

#saynototurrets

Still not the point. Anet has tried time, and freaking time again to make mesmers this “lockdown” BS class to where noone can do anything. Guess what tho? Why have a mesmer play lockdown when I can think of at least two other classes that can lock a person out of their skills and movement, as well as a kitten ton of immobs.

later this year

You gotta look around combat on home/mid/far and start engaging opponents at chokepoints. Turrets have no power off-point at chokes.

I don’t use turrets, don’t use celestial amulet and I don’t might stack… But I’d still make you cry on the forums

Seriously though… As a main engi, I agree with the turret nerf sentiment…. I know my class well enough to dismantle them but it ruining other peoples fun :-P

I’d like to see them have a shorter life span once placed… Or be a 1 slot item… Like dwarf engi from WAR.

#saynototurrets

The problem here is what I’ve been saying on the forums for quite some time now: “Some classes are OP in low MMRs, some classes are balanced in mid MMRs and some classes are just not viable in high MMRs”. Turret Engi is one of the perfect examples to tag on to this statement.

• Turrets are great in low MMRs because the turret AI transcends the playing capability of the low MMR players who are against the Turret Engi.
• Turrets are balanced in mid MMRs because players become smarter and learn to engage the Engi off-point and begin learning the timing of how to dodge things like Rocket Turret. “Player skill begins to override simple turret AI”
• Turrets are not viable in higher tier MMRs because players begin learning how and when to properly engage players off point as well as an even more advanced sense of how to dodge obvious turret AI attacks and all of the above renders a Turret Engineer useless and I do mean useless in comparison to cele/rifle or a d/d ele.

Nerf turrets. A build that forces people to communicate and coordinate is OP. I want to be able to not communicate with my team and still win. Why should I have to spend that time before a match communicating with my team and devising a strategy. I should be able to 1v1 every build because teamwork and communication is hard. I should be able to just run headlong into a player and fight them, I should not have to pay attention and find the rocket turret first. I should not have to learn rotations.

Seriously people! Actually communicate before a match. This significantly increases your chance of winning. I personally find it funny that there is a build that is only OP due to lack of willingness to communicate before a match. The turret engi has massive flaws that can be easily exploited. There is a reason that turret engi is not seen in high level play much.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

The problem here is what I’ve been saying on the forums for quite some time now: “Some classes are OP in low MMRs, some classes are balanced in mid MMRs and some classes are just not viable in high MMRs”. Turret Engi is one of the perfect examples to tag on to this statement.

• Turrets are great in low MMRs because the turret AI transcends the playing capability of the low MMR players who are against the Turret Engi.
• Turrets are balanced in mid MMRs because players become smarter and learn to engage the Engi off-point and begin learning the timing of how to dodge things like Rocket Turret. “Player skill begins to override simple turret AI”
• Turrets are not viable in higher tier MMRs because players begin learning how and when to properly engage players off point as well as an even more advanced sense of how to dodge obvious turret AI attacks and all of the above renders a Turret Engineer useless and I do mean useless in comparison to cele/rifle or a d/d ele.

I’m guessing you didn’t watch the ESL monthlies. Team with 2 turrets made it to the semis. Tell me that it’s not good for high MMR. Kekekek

But they didn’t win
No team running turrets has ever won
Teams that do not run turret engineers win tournaments

You might want to consider this reality check

Trevor Boyer.6524:

But they didn’t win
No team running turrets has ever won
Teams that do not run turret engineers win tournaments

You might want to consider this reality check

Apex Prime almost lost against Shiny New Pug in the semi-final of ESL monthlies last night. They were saved by the fact that a team with two turret engi and two bunker war couldn’t defend against a full 5-man Lord Rush. The first match was an utter humiliation though. This is entirely a troll move from SNP because none of them have played turret engi competitively before yesterday, yet they were still able to give other teams the run for their money. Just to show that how cheesy and easily effective this build is.

At mid tier, there is Seraph of Fortuna (with 1 turret engi) who was consistently placed second in Academy Gaming tourney for several weeks. If the ban for double turret engi had been lifted, they would have made it to first place several times seeing how difficult it was for the other teams to deal with them.

However you look at it, that turret flying in mid air looks wrong

someone.7485:

Nerf turrets. A build that forces people to communicate and coordinate is OP. I want to be able to not communicate with my team and still win. Why should I have to spend that time before a match communicating with my team and devising a strategy. I should be able to 1v1 every build because teamwork and communication is hard. I should be able to just run headlong into a player and fight them, I should not have to pay attention and find the rocket turret first. I should not have to learn rotations.

Seriously people! Actually communicate before a match. This significantly increases your chance of winning. I personally find it funny that there is a build that is only OP due to lack of willingness to communicate before a match. The turret engi has massive flaws that can be easily exploited. There is a reason that turret engi is not seen in high level play much.

The thing is one turret not a problem. Stacked turret engis. Big problem. To the point where yes it is broken, and you know it.

I don’t know what else to say other than refer to Backpack’s video about rotations. If you refer to these basics and were to use them in matches, turret engineers cannot keep up in rotations. In the long run, turret engineers cause a team to be easily staggered by an aggressive opponent team and get out-rotated in general. They simply have no ability to peel. If Apex Prime was allowing them to peel, they were doing a terrible job of rotating.

Not difficult to read from the OP’s completely one sided, one dimensional post who plays a turret engi. Some mod should just delete this joke thread.

Good players that communicate still beat multiple turret engis every time. It is about communication and proper rations.

Wile.5024:

Not difficult to read from the OP’s completely one sided, one dimensional post who plays a turret engi. Some mod should just delete this joke thread.

Yes, just ignore me and ask me to be silenced because my opinion differs from yours. My point is the lack of communication is pvp is laughable and is the real issue.

someone.7485:

Good players that communicate still beat multiple turret engis every time. It is about communication and proper rations.

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/647594592

Watch the first match. Watch how often apex was chasing their tails. This is APeX Prime a team that won the very first ToL and placed 2nd in the second ToL. Are you gonna tell me that this team HMan, Morf, Happy Kid, Night, and Anastarcis are bad? Are you seriously going to try and tell me that those players are so bad because they lost to that comp. You honestly believe this spec isn’t broken one bit?

someone.7485:

Good players that communicate still beat multiple turret engis every time. It is about communication and proper rations.

That’s just it , you need good players to beat even horrible turret engis… that alone says there’s a balancing issue (and it’s not the only thing, nowhere near it). Anyway this has been discussed to much greater lengths in other threads already…

someone.7485:

Good players that communicate still beat multiple turret engis every time. It is about communication and proper rations.

This.

I don’t play turret engie except the occasional game of unranked. I find having many enemy turret engineers to be to my teams advantage. My build is a burst s/d build, so I’ll usually pop the rocket turret during 2v1 or 2v2. to reduce the pressure, then focus the engie. (Also, when I play turret engie, I play with zerker amulet, cause why not XD)

Turrets suck for teamfights, so more of them is just stacking the odds in our favor. Also, I want to mention that there are many varieties of turret builds. The one everyone has a problem with are the boonspam, tanky, high damage turret build. Reflection turret builds, and zerker turret builds are not even OP in 1v1, but bring more to teamfights.

Good luck with nerfing turrets, but if you are up for it. Add me in game, I’ll show you how to 1v1 a turret player, even though that is an almost irrelevant point in 5v5 against turrets. Their major counters are poor mobility, static damage, and long cooldowns before they can even use their utilities when they died. (meaning you can spawn camp a turret engie really easy, since all his turret don’t come off cooldown for 10-30 seconds after respawning) If your build isn’t terrible, you should have some strategy with it that you focus on in games. Play your strengths, and don’t fight fair fights. Arena is not dueling, it’s digital war.

Edit: I thought I’d mention I am not addressing the OP, but rather anyone who thinks turrets are OP.

^ I have a better idea. You have 30sec to kill turret engi. If you fail another guy comes in to 2v1 you cause that how conquest working. Deal? A pro like you shouldt have any problem with that

Trevor Boyer.6524:

I don’t know what else to say other than refer to Backpack’s video about rotations. If you refer to these basics and were to use them in matches, turret engineers cannot keep up in rotations. In the long run, turret engineers cause a team to be easily staggered by an aggressive opponent team and get out-rotated in general. They simply have no ability to peel. If Apex Prime was allowing them to peel, they were doing a terrible job of rotating.

your defense for turrent engi is just illogical, then again, with your reply saying “Mesmers are decent all around” (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/A-class-so-good-teams-need-2-of-them/first#post4914612) in all tiers in sPvP is enough to show your biased towards certain classes.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

I don’t know what else to say other than refer to Backpack’s video about rotations. If you refer to these basics and were to use them in matches, turret engineers cannot keep up in rotations. In the long run, turret engineers cause a team to be easily staggered by an aggressive opponent team and get out-rotated in general. They simply have no ability to peel. If Apex Prime was allowing them to peel, they were doing a terrible job of rotating.

Because Apex is clearly one of the worst teams in the game.

#sarcasm.

Also if turrets are giving one of the best teams in NA that much of a problem, do you still really think they are okay?

jportell.2197:

someone.7485:

Good players that communicate still beat multiple turret engis every time. It is about communication and proper rations.

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/647594592

Watch the first match. Watch how often apex was chasing their tails. This is APeX Prime a team that won the very first ToL and placed 2nd in the second ToL. Are you gonna tell me that this team HMan, Morf, Happy Kid, Night, and Anastarcis are bad? Are you seriously going to try and tell me that those players are so bad because they lost to that comp. You honestly believe this spec isn’t broken one bit?

At least neither turret engi are running the metabuild. They made sure to reduce that pesky mobility issue. But, they only had 2 turret engis and still lost. A significant part of pvp is communication and rotations. You can do rather well with sub par builds if you are really good at communicating and rotations. In the end APEX just out rotated them, which is what always happens to turret engis against good players. My main point that the lack of communication is the issue in pvp still stands.

someone.7485:

Nerf turrets. A build that forces people to communicate and coordinate is OP. I want to be able to not communicate with my team and still win. Why should I have to spend that time before a match communicating with my team and devising a strategy. I should be able to 1v1 every build because teamwork and communication is hard. I should be able to just run headlong into a player and fight them, I should not have to pay attention and find the rocket turret first. I should not have to learn rotations.

Seriously people! Actually communicate before a match. This significantly increases your chance of winning. I personally find it funny that there is a build that is only OP due to lack of willingness to communicate before a match. The turret engi has massive flaws that can be easily exploited. There is a reason that turret engi is not seen in high level play much.

they can’t nerf turrets , they are too busy on HoT….

If you put yourself in a position to be 2v1, that is called failing. Of course you should lose 2v1, positioning is very important in this game. Players holding a point however are often forced into that position due to the nature of the role.

I’m no pro, but I apply the same self improving philosophy to the game as I do in life. I’m not going to just give up due to an enemy having many advantages over me, I’ll search for my own advantages and their weakness.

But again, its a team game, but if people are curious about how to kill turret engineers 1v1, just add me. If you want to play a few games with me, to see how I deal with turret engies in arena, add me as well. I’m more than happy to help. I find this game to have decent balance, better than most mmos. Depending on how you build yourself you always give something up to get something. Its a good design. Turret engineers give up their mobility, and team fight pressure, and if your makeup is right, you can even spawn kill the turret engineer a few times in the game.

Again, I’m more than happy to play a few games, even if it will drop my rating (not that is matters much this season). I’m 32-29 so far on my no kit-no condi removal build in ranked. All queued solo (minus a few games with my gf; but she is not very good and we lost 2/3 games)

Once you kill a turret engi, do your magic and ambush him as he rezes on his base? Since if he won’t drop his turrets midway, he will die? Mesmers and thieves are the most mobile classes, maybe use their advantages to the fullest, start camping base entrances?

HaxTester.9816:

Once you kill a turret engi, do your magic and ambush him as he rezes on his base? Since if he won’t drop his turrets midway, he will die? Mesmers and thieves are the most mobile classes, maybe use their advantages to the fullest, start camping base entrances?

yeah i’ll just make sure that I beat them to the point right at the start of the match. Also mesmers are INFIGHT mobile. They have some of the worst mobility distance wise in the entire flipping game. They are only really mobile in fight. And please don’t say portal because that is a 90s cd.

Mesmer’s should never be meta. The entire profession is based around cheap and cheesy gimmicks. Which is really the point of these complaint threads. It’s not about balance, it’s about individuals demanding a face roll spec for their favorite or only character.

New meta:

Hammer Engineer with Flying drone turrets.

Be ready to experience history! #HoT

DeWolfe.2174:

Mesmer’s should never be meta. The entire profession is based around cheap and cheesy gimmicks. Which is really the point of these complaint threads. It’s not about balance, it’s about individuals demanding a face roll spec for their favorite or only character.

You’re entitled to your opinion about mesmer, but shatter mesmer is actually one of the best counter to turret engi. The fact that it is still an uphill battle is an illustration of the fact that turreter is, if not OP, at least one of the strongest on-point dueling spec in the game.

someone.7485:

jportell.2197:

someone.7485:

Good players that communicate still beat multiple turret engis every time. It is about communication and proper rations.

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/647594592

Watch the first match. Watch how often apex was chasing their tails. This is APeX Prime a team that won the very first ToL and placed 2nd in the second ToL. Are you gonna tell me that this team HMan, Morf, Happy Kid, Night, and Anastarcis are bad? Are you seriously going to try and tell me that those players are so bad because they lost to that comp. You honestly believe this spec isn’t broken one bit?

At least neither turret engi are running the metabuild. They made sure to reduce that pesky mobility issue. But, they only had 2 turret engis and still lost. A significant part of pvp is communication and rotations. You can do rather well with sub par builds if you are really good at communicating and rotations. In the end APEX just out rotated them, which is what always happens to turret engis against good players. My main point that the lack of communication is the issue in pvp still stands.

Of course there is a lack of communication, we’re not on come. If you think typing out instructions is the answer than you’re a kitten fool. The fact remains however that two turret engis took a game off APEX prime, probably the second best team on NA and a team that I guarantee you is communicating well. And the other two games were very close also

DeWolfe.2174:

Mesmer’s should never be meta. The entire profession is based around cheap and cheesy gimmicks. Which is really the point of these complaint threads. It’s not about balance, it’s about individuals demanding a face roll spec for their favorite or only character.

Cheap and cheesy? Mesmer is the HARDEST class to play right now aside from PU. Right now the standard shatter mes is so hard to play because of how much every other class shuts them out aside from DPS guards and some ranger specs. Really you are going to tell me mesmers don’t belong in the game, but turret engi is fine? Well you can go burn in a fiery pit then.

Turrets should scale on the player’s stars. Then in bunker mode they wont do kitten.
It’s also the insane engineer daily frequency, being there every 2 days. Funny how we get mesmer winner twice a month. Anet are absolutely kittened calling it balanced.

All of you people telling us you can counter it, just neck yourselves. Seriously.
While playing staff ele smashes them, thieves will kick your kitten especially since we get a thief daily 3 times a week.
Ranger is good but medi meta guards, thieves, and eles will kill you, especially since a daily for those three will be on every day.
PvP is getting worse, first they kitten up ranked arena so that scrubs are on the first page of the leaderboard and now we get aids engineers every game every day nearly and every team, even in unranked. A lot of the good players have given up on PvP because it’s nothing like it was 4 months ago. Fix your kitten up before ‘The Great PvP Depression’ gets out of hand.

Loboling.5293:

i have no idea wtf im talking about

And you missed the point. This is team based game, before you manage to down turret engi he will get a backup that will roflstomp you and do /dance. Even if not you already kittened off your team by wasting time to kill him as points tick during that time. And thats olny 1 engi. Whats about 2?

DeWolfe.2174:

Mesmer’s should never be meta. The entire profession is based around cheap and cheesy gimmicks. Which is really the point of these complaint threads. It’s not about balance, it’s about individuals demanding a face roll spec for their favorite or only character.

On the flip side, these threads are also full of players that dont want to see any changes because few of their characters are part of the meta and want to avoid being nerfed…

jportell.2197:

DeWolfe.2174:

Mesmer’s should never be meta. The entire profession is based around cheap and cheesy gimmicks. Which is really the point of these complaint threads. It’s not about balance, it’s about individuals demanding a face roll spec for their favorite or only character.

Cheap and cheesy? Mesmer is the HARDEST class to play right now aside from PU. Right now the standard shatter mes is so hard to play because of how much every other class shuts them out aside from DPS guards and some ranger specs. Really you are going to tell me mesmers don’t belong in the game, but turret engi is fine? Well you can go burn in a fiery pit then.

Difficulty is usually not a factor to take into account when balancing. You mentioned cele rifle engi being easy to play, and it certainly is compared to some mesmer builds (the two builds I play the most lately are shatter mesmer and cele rifle engi), but it’s still harder than:

- Most warrior builds
- Most guardian builds
- Power and condi necro
- Power, spirit and condi ranger
- Condition engineer
- Most condition mesmer builds
- Most thief’s condition builds
- d/d celestial elementalist

Note that I’m an average, but rather experienced player who has played most of the meta builds on most professions (still not used to necro). It might vary a bit if you’re more or less experienced than I am.

The fact that we have so many different professions and builds to choose from make it impossible for them to present the same challenge, especially if you want them to be thematically and mechanically very distinct. I love the fact that on my warrior I can just jump into the fight and eat half of the damage coming my way, while if I take my mesmer I must use every deception trick in my book to avoid taking a single hit.

That being said, there is probably a limit, where “easy” play becomes frankly annoying, especially if the effectiveness of the build is better than most “harder” builds. Spirit ranger had that problem, and now turret engineer faces it too. I hope the nerf that will come will be reasonable (there’s no reason to completely push them out of pvp), but I hope it will come soon.

ronpierce.2760:

New meta:

Hammer Engineer with Flying drone turrets.

Be ready to experience history! #HoT

Thanks for the mental image now I won’t be able to sleep because of nightmares.

XPilo.5862:

ronpierce.2760:

New meta:

Hammer Engineer with Flying drone turrets.

Be ready to experience history! #HoT

Thanks for the mental image now I won’t be able to sleep because of nightmares.

Dont worry, my revenant will faceroll any engi on a sight. That will teach these fifthy casuals!

someone.7485:

Seriously people! Actually communicate before a match.

This is like saying “Hey, if you ready up, the match will start quicker” – which might be desirable, but how many times does it happen?

In the time I have been playing, the odds that you got people communicating at the start, telling roles and builds can be count on one hand…
Sad? Maybe, but it is the truth…

Also, as much as I like try to stay unbiased on the forums, the numerous amounts of “Daily Engineer” and the obvious growing popularity of the build are starting to get to me more and more…