Guild Wars 2

This is why i quit GW2 so broken don’t get me wrong i played GW1 and i love it but GW2 first i think maybe i should give the dev sometime to fix things but 2 years classes are still broken they buff this class then other class will be a garbage maybe the original GW1 skill balance team are not working anymore at Arenanet well still i’m hoping they can fix this because if not i’m not coming back there are plenty of other upcoming mmo that i hope get’s what Arenanet try to endorse to us from the start

shimmerless.4560:

vincecontix.1264:

shimmerless.4560:

vincecontix.1264:

Chaith.8256:

sinject.4607:

you know what else dies to a coodinated burst that fast?
everything else in the game

congrats on the great post man

No 2 professions is going to kill an Ele, Warrior, Guardian, a Thief with Shadowstep&Refuge, a Mesmer with blink/decoy, in 5 seconds. All these professions have multiple stunbreaks and o-kitten buttons that they can layer. Most professions can expend cooldowns and exit harm’s way, and will need to be hard swapped to LATER.

If it comes down to it, you can hit up to 3 stances. Up to 3 Cantrips. Stunbreak, Stunbreak/teleport, Shadow Refuge. You get the idea.

The point is, which you are being too kitten dense and trolly to observe, is that Engineer defensive CDs blow. They’re god awful. They don’t displace you, or drop you as a target / stop the pain train for more than 3 seconds. The only reactive ability that is capable of doing this is the Elixir S Stealth. The problem with this is that you get Steal/Doom on you as soon as you exit your Invuln, and the stealth is easily interrupted. In the first place, Elixir S is the only one that’s really capable of doing any of these things. What if you aren’t packing Elixir S and Toolkit? God forbid anything else be brought into PvP.

Stop you are making to much sense most people won’t be able to take it.

It makes zero sense, Engineers have dozens of displacements and the class doesn’t even even need to be on point to put out tremendous pressure in the first place. The stealth is easily interrupted? Oh my tears, welcome to our world.

If you want to run triple kits/two kits + gun then suck it up and make do with what you’ve got. Two rootless blocks and a natural reflect (on sub-minute cooldowns), hp/s through the roof, permanent swiftness/vigor, every defensive condition under the sun, gosh it must be rough! There are classes that play with just two utilities as a sacrifice for the team effort, the solipsism when it comes to some of you is astonishing.

Thing is though compare to other class engi meta builds defenses suck. That’s what a few player are complaining about. Engi that is cc, stun or dazed can’t block, stealth or use heal/condi clear.

Though players don’t bare these things in mind when making there complaints.

Apparently the post you’re quoting went in one ear and out the other because I was specifically making light of the idea that this is somehow a unique burden for Engineers to bear. Most classes can’t heal when stunned, there are many other common forms of stealth with much longer and more obvious casting times. Why do you think Withdraw is so popular even on D/P?

This is exactly what I mean about Engi aficionados, it’s like they live in their own little world where they don’t know and don’t care to know anything about the rest of the game and they think that legitimate weaknesses are “mild channels” and “I’m weak to focus fire”. Who isn’t?

My point was that the burden is actually heavier on engi in regards to current meta build. Some classes are more susceptible to focus fire than others, engi is one of them.
Other classes have better ways to avoid and mitigate damage which was already listed in this thread.

I main a thief not engi and if you check my history you can see I am constantly defending them.

Also the op created this thread lists a bunch of things he thinks that make engi op. He doesn’t go into any detail or listing specific offending builds.

Chaith.8256:

sinject.4607:

you know what else dies to a coodinated burst that fast?
everything else in the game

congrats on the great post man

No 2 professions is going to kill an Ele, Warrior, Guardian, a Thief with Shadowstep&Refuge, a Mesmer with blink/decoy, in 5 seconds. All these professions have multiple stunbreaks and o-kitten buttons that they can layer. Most professions can expend cooldowns and exit harm’s way, and will need to be hard swapped to LATER.

If it comes down to it, you can hit up to 3 stances. Up to 3 Cantrips. Stunbreak, Stunbreak/teleport, Shadow Refuge. You get the idea.

The point is, which you are being too kitten dense and trolly to observe, is that Engineer defensive CDs blow. They’re god awful. They don’t displace you, or drop you as a target / stop the pain train for more than 3 seconds. The only reactive ability that is capable of doing this is the Elixir S Stealth. The problem with this is that you get Steal/Doom on you as soon as you exit your Invuln, and the stealth is easily interrupted. In the first place, Elixir S is the only one that’s really capable of doing any of these things. What if you aren’t packing Elixir S and Toolkit? God forbid anything else be brought into PvP.

Are you saying that an engineer cannot survive 5 seconds of getting trained? Elixir S, dodge, swap mid air, block with Tool Kit. Your last sentence is also a gem. A thief HAS to take Shadowstep and Shadow Refuge. A mesmer HAS to take decoy and blink. What if they want to take something else? All classes have must-use utilities, not only the engineer… Most engineer builds even run celestial or rabid amulet, providing defensive stats as well.

Steb.2571:

I know Chaith, it must suck, having a shield on a lower CD than warriors who have to invest in an entire weapon slot, 0s Weapon swap cooldown, undodgeable long duration burn, a pull, a knockback, and a ranged immob, an insanely powerful elite, access to 3 weapon sets at a time (4 if you went triple kit), stealth personal or team, invuln, Every condi in the entire kittening game, except torment. Multi strike ranged attacks that bypass blind and aegis. A leap, Enough power to crit for 3k with prybar, and 1k ranged autos. A heal that aoe burns, a heal that clenses, and blasts a water field in an aoe healing yourself and allies on an insanely low cd, and gives regen with the highest Heal / s in the game. 18k Base health with medium armor.

All in one build.

Yeah, you’re right, the struggle is real bro.

Steb..

You literally just combined the Celestial Rifle and P/S Rabid builds, that run both Egun, spamming perma weakness, running Elixir S, Balthazar Runes, and Might Stacking setup in order to crit 3k Prybars as Rabid. The best part was when you said ‘and all in one build!’ At the end, lol’d.

Don’t be a sensationalist hype-kitten .

Just to reiterate, no build has a Net Shot, Jump Shot, 1k Ranged Autos, and conversely run the Rabid things like Balthazar Runes.

Chaith.8256:

Steb.2571:

I know Chaith, it must suck, having a shield on a lower CD than warriors who have to invest in an entire weapon slot, 0s Weapon swap cooldown, undodgeable long duration burn, a pull, a knockback, and a ranged immob, an insanely powerful elite, access to 3 weapon sets at a time (4 if you went triple kit), stealth personal or team, invuln, Every condi in the entire kittening game, except torment. Multi strike ranged attacks that bypass blind and aegis. A leap, Enough power to crit for 3k with prybar, and 1k ranged autos. A heal that aoe burns, a heal that clenses, and blasts a water field in an aoe healing yourself and allies on an insanely low cd, and gives regen with the highest Heal / s in the game. 18k Base health with medium armor.

All in one build.

Yeah, you’re right, the struggle is real bro.

Steb..

You literally just combined the Celestial Rifle and P/S Rabid builds, that run both Egun, spamming perma weakness, running Elixir S, Balthazar Runes, and Might Stacking setup in order to crit 3k Prybars as Rabid. The best part was when you said ‘and all in one build!’ At the end, lol’d.

Don’t be a sensationalist hype-kitten .

Just to reiterate, no build has a Net Shot, Jump Shot, 1k Ranged Autos, and conversely run the Rabid things like Balthazar Runes.

Where did I say anything about rabid, weakness spam, or double leap / additonal cleanse? Nowhere in here did I imply you’d be running e-gun. I stated you COULD take a 3rd kit, but all of what I listed above is just a standard rifle, balth, celestial double kit (nades and toolkit since I apparently have to be exactly specific) and elixer S build, with celestial.

Cut the big thread explanation . . .

We all know that this profession is over the top and we all know why.

Is not only a hard counter for thieves . . . is a hard counter for everything but necro.

Anyways . . . this is why it will never be an esport game.

vinceftw.5086:

Are you saying that an engineer cannot survive 5 seconds of getting trained? Elixir S, dodge, swap mid air, block with Tool Kit. Your last sentence is also a gem. A thief HAS to take Shadowstep and Shadow Refuge. A mesmer HAS to take decoy and blink. What if they want to take something else? All classes have must-use utilities, not only the engineer… Most engineer builds even run celestial or rabid amulet, providing defensive stats as well.

Some people just tack on perma E-gun weakness spam to the list of conditions Engineers have readily available to them, who shall not be named. The problem is that nobody realizes that you have to kiss a precious damage-stop goodbye to get it.

Steb.2571:

Where did I say anything about rabid, weakness spam, or double leap / additonal cleanse? Nowhere in here did I imply you’d be running e-gun. I stated you COULD take a 3rd kit, but all of what I listed above is just a standard rifle, balth, celestial double kit (nades and toolkit since I apparently have to be exactly specific) and elixer S build, with celestial.

It was mostly confusing because you have no kittenin’ reason to run Balth runes when your only source of burning is IP. You’re celestial, you need at least a few might stacks to not suck.

You said Engineers have weakness when you said they have every condition except Torment in your hyperbole

Chaith.8256:

Steb.2571:

Where did I say anything about rabid, weakness spam, or double leap / additonal cleanse? Nowhere in here did I imply you’d be running e-gun. I stated you COULD take a 3rd kit, but all of what I listed above is just a standard rifle, balth, celestial double kit (nades and toolkit since I apparently have to be exactly specific) and elixer S build, with celestial.

It was mostly confusing because you have no kittenin’ reason to run Balth runes when your only source of burning is IP. You’re celestial, you need at least a few might stacks to not suck.

You said Engineers have weakness when you said they have every condition except Torment in your hyperbole

My bad, your right no weakness. Every other condition however, aside from weakness and poison. (Unless you count rifle leap through poision field, which I don’t.)

Sorry, I thought an AOE burn on heal was pretty strong, with additional burning and might duration, on top of running might sigil for might stacking.

Steb.2571:

Sorry, I thought an AOE burn on heal was pretty strong, with additional burning and might duration, on top of running might sigil for might stacking.

Do you still play this game, you dinosaur?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Balthazar

Ain’t no might duration.

Chaith.8256:

sinject.4607:

you know what else dies to a coodinated burst that fast?
everything else in the game

congrats on the great post man

No 2 professions is going to kill an Ele, Warrior, Guardian, a Thief with Shadowstep&Refuge, a Mesmer with blink/decoy, in 5 seconds. All these professions have multiple stunbreaks and o-kitten buttons that they can layer. Most professions can expend cooldowns and exit harm’s way, and will need to be hard swapped to LATER.

If it comes down to it, you can hit up to 3 stances. Up to 3 Cantrips. Stunbreak, Stunbreak/teleport, Shadow Refuge. You get the idea.

The point is, which you are being too kitten dense and trolly to observe, is that Engineer defensive CDs blow. They’re god awful. They don’t displace you, or drop you as a target / stop the pain train for more than 3 seconds. The only reactive ability that is capable of doing this is the Elixir S Stealth. The problem with this is that you get Steal/Doom on you as soon as you exit your Invuln, and the stealth is easily interrupted. In the first place, Elixir S is the only one that’s really capable of doing any of these things. What if you aren’t packing Elixir S and Toolkit? God forbid anything else be brought into PvP.

You’ve been chillin in the top tier for too long. You have to understand that 99.99% of players aren’t top 200 and they are not facing players who are this good at focusing. Who cares if engi is easy to focus down for the absolute top tier? It’s kittening off everyone who isn’t an absolute god at this game.

Is it possible to beat a condi engi 1v1? Course. I’ve done it with assassin nades for christ sake. Is it possible to get them down in team fights? Course. But the effectiveness of the build with little effort is ridiculous because the instant procs can proc off of auto attacks and yet the build gets to still be really defensive. They don’t even need pistol off hand anymore because of balthazar runes!

If you are being trained, your allies should be peeling for you and you should be looking for an LOS spot. You don’t need more than 3 seconds of invuln/block/stealth if you know where to go to and where to stand. If the enemy mes/thief combo is so not pressured that they can do this to you, it’s your team’s fault, not the build’s lack of defense. If this wasn’t necessary, this build would be taking OP to a whole new level.

@ the part about killing in 5 seconds, I’ll give you the Warrior and maybe the ele, but if we’re talking fighters here and not bunkers, then thief and mesmer are flying down after one good burst and medi guard isn’t taking much longer. As an engi, I can chain all my o-kitten buttons too, but that’s a huge waste and it’s a death sentence, just as it is with all of those other classes.

Also warrior defense is insanity. Can’t even compare it to anything else. Even if they don’t pop a cooldown, stuff hits them like it’s a poke.

Also, I don’t get why people are complaining so much about cele nades. It’s really not that bad. Condi nades is the one I have an issue with.

Chaith.8256:

Steb.2571:

Sorry, I thought an AOE burn on heal was pretty strong, with additional burning and might duration, on top of running might sigil for might stacking.

Do you still play this game, you dinosaur?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Balthazar

Ain’t no might duration.

Fair enough, I thought it gave might duration as well. Either way, your still getting an aoe burn for 4s+ every time you heal, that alone is strong as kitten, when your heal also blast finishes, aoe heals and clenses, and has the highest healing per second. Balth is still run by several engi’s, though strength is also an insanely strong option when you have 0s swap cooldown, and can get the swap buff instantly, every time it’s off CD.

The fact you think engi isn’t overpowered is hysterical though.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Who cares if engi is easy to focus down for the absolute top tier? It’s kittening off everyone who isn’t an absolute god at this game.

It’s not, My team has 4 zerkers, we’re a top team, and we refuse to focus an engi because it will just shield, into s, into dodgerolls, into stealth, back into shield. By this point either we have downs and are still trying to focus it with 0 effect, or dead.

Steb.2571:

Chaith.8256:

Steb.2571:

Sorry, I thought an AOE burn on heal was pretty strong, with additional burning and might duration, on top of running might sigil for might stacking.

Do you still play this game, you dinosaur?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Balthazar

Ain’t no might duration.

Fair enough, I thought it gave might duration as well. Either way, your still getting an aoe burn for 4s+ every time you heal, that alone is strong as kitten, when your heal also blast finishes, aoe heals and clenses, and has the highest healing per second. Balth is still run by several engi’s, though strength is also an insanely strong option when you have 0s swap cooldown, and can get the swap buff instantly, every time it’s off CD.

The fact you think engi isn’t overpowered is hysterical though.

Op compared to what though? Engi comparing himslef to Celest might stacking Ele, might stacking hambow/axebow Wars, and Necros, might have a different pov than a thief comparing himself to an Engi.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

You’ve been chillin in the top tier for too long. You have to understand that 99.99% of players aren’t top 200 and they are not facing players who are this good at focusing. Who cares if engi is easy to focus down for the absolute top tier? It’s kittening off everyone who isn’t an absolute god at this game.

Lol, perhaps. As the game ages, my expectation for the average player’s skill definitely increases. It is frustrating that there’s not really a way to use the Elixir S Invuln or Gear Shield more intelligently other than waddling to the back line after using them. It does make the build easy in Solo Q, usually people just forget about you, instead of realizing that a 2s immobilize and subsequent rancid fart will topple you. Engineer’s defensive cooldowns are very low-brow and basic. They’re never going to suddenly whip across to the opposite ledge, throw a stability up, or shed all conditions.

Over time people will force the habit to be extremely persistent on the Engineer after Elixir S goes down, all throughout the PvP playerbase.

vincecontix.1264:

Steb.2571:

Chaith.8256:

Steb.2571:

Sorry, I thought an AOE burn on heal was pretty strong, with additional burning and might duration, on top of running might sigil for might stacking.

Do you still play this game, you dinosaur?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Balthazar

Ain’t no might duration.

Fair enough, I thought it gave might duration as well. Either way, your still getting an aoe burn for 4s+ every time you heal, that alone is strong as kitten, when your heal also blast finishes, aoe heals and clenses, and has the highest healing per second. Balth is still run by several engi’s, though strength is also an insanely strong option when you have 0s swap cooldown, and can get the swap buff instantly, every time it’s off CD.

The fact you think engi isn’t overpowered is hysterical though.

Op compared to what though? Engi comparing himslef to Celest might stacking Ele, might stacking hambow/axebow Wars, and Necros, might have a different pov than a thief comparing himself to an Engi.

Compered to the game in it’s entirety. It brings too much to the table, has a counter for everything, and has a solution for nearly any problem (both offensive and defensive) aside from condi transfer.

It’s good in nearly every situation, and has virtually no weaknesses (again, with the exception of condi transfer). It has everything, and sacrifices nothing, that’s literally a textbook definition of overpowered. There’s no trade-off or balance.

Steb.2571:

vincecontix.1264:

Steb.2571:

Chaith.8256:

Steb.2571:

Sorry, I thought an AOE burn on heal was pretty strong, with additional burning and might duration, on top of running might sigil for might stacking.

Do you still play this game, you dinosaur?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Balthazar

Ain’t no might duration.

Fair enough, I thought it gave might duration as well. Either way, your still getting an aoe burn for 4s+ every time you heal, that alone is strong as kitten, when your heal also blast finishes, aoe heals and clenses, and has the highest healing per second. Balth is still run by several engi’s, though strength is also an insanely strong option when you have 0s swap cooldown, and can get the swap buff instantly, every time it’s off CD.

The fact you think engi isn’t overpowered is hysterical though.

Op compared to what though? Engi comparing himslef to Celest might stacking Ele, might stacking hambow/axebow Wars, and Necros, might have a different pov than a thief comparing himself to an Engi.

Compered to the game in it’s entirety. It brings too much to the table, has a counter for everything, and has a solution for nearly any problem (both offensive and defensive) aside from condi transfer.

It’s good in nearly every situation, and has virtually no weaknesses (again, with the exception of condi transfer). It has everything, and sacrifices nothing, that’s literally a textbook definition of overpowered. There’s no trade-off or balance.

Well…Okay now slow down there tex. It’s not THAT bad. I think it’s too easy for how effective it is, but christ, it’s not a dhuumfire necro combined with a thief with the defenses of a warrior. You know that engis don’t get to take all of their skills and traits in one build, right?

Also, define the build you’re talking about. Are you talking about celestial triple kit? Nade/Bomb/S? Balthzar condi with P/S toolkit/nade? Turret engi? Engineers have a butt ton of builds to choose from. Wild crazy accusations about the class don’t do anything for the discussion. All it does is cause people to come back at the silly points you’re trying to claim like “It has everything”. It doesn’t. It has a lot, but not everything. Try getting a treb down with a condi engi.

Steb.2571:

Compered to the game in it’s entirety. It brings too much to the table, has a counter for everything, and has a solution for nearly any problem (both offensive and defensive) aside from condi transfer.

It’s good in nearly every situation, and has virtually no weaknesses (again, with the exception of condi transfer). It has everything, and sacrifices nothing, that’s literally a textbook definition of overpowered. There’s no trade-off or balance.

Alright Steb.

If you can tell me what weaknesses Warriors and Elementalists have that are more exploitable than Engineers, then you will have a decent point.

(You can’t, because Elementalists and Warriors have an even more impermeable defense, with fewer exploitable weaknesses.)

In sPvP, an Engineer is simply a variation of the bruiser-esque teamfighters that comprise 50% of the professions (Ele, Eng, Rngr, War) who are normally designed to fight on-point. The HPS, Burning, CC, Utility, defensive CDs, condition removal, on all these all-purpose builds are real. From this broad archetype, Engineer sacrifices the ability to fight on point, due to kitten poor condition removal and no stability. It does this to gain a more lethal barrage of conditions and control.

Man, I’m not disputing that this bruiser archetype is ridiculous. Ele, Eng, Rngr, War, you need these professions in your team, there’s no way around it. Ranger I feel is slightly under-tuned as a condi bruiser, damage wise, right now.

But in my opinion, everything you’re saying is hyped by a personal Engineer vendetta, just because of the matter of D/D eles and Warriors existing as they do right now.

Out with the Engi, in with more double Ele, am I right? Cause I would like to see your 4 zerker team attempt focusing eles first instead, if Engies are too hard for you guys to burst.

The issue is that engineer is just too effective right now. An average player can dominate a solo queue and 50% of team queue matches (since about 50% are basically just pug matches) using it. The class needs to be brought in line with the others.

I just love how everybody starts twisting words, making crap up, and jumping on the engi with no basis. Srsly people there are FAR FAR more worrying builds, professions, Un-counterable poop, and broken mechanics, bugs, No qol updates and the list goes on and on. Yet you harp on engis.

Your priorities are way off.

Also the “does well in solo q” argument is completely irreverent. My solo q’s are so bad its unbelievable. Literally I can roll ANY profession and win ALL my 1v1’s in solo q. Does that mean I’m broken? No it means solo q matchmaking in complete poop.

This game is partially tailored to the new players. But balance should be achieved through the highest end of tpvp groups. Why? because major tournaments, money prizes, and esports lol.

Let me give you an example:
In solo q there is 0 communication. I put targets on people at 10 percent hp in solo q all the time. They never get downed. Team is doing idk what at the time.
In team q I put a target up on a full hp guy and they take ALL the focus fire.

In radioactive we literally had 2-3 warriors using chain stuns, me (the ele at the time) static field + immob then ice bow the big circle while our power necro fear’d dropped a well and went ham.

Want to know who could surive that? Only warriors, guardians, and eles, mesmers, and necros/thief if cooldown where up. Hmm thats 6/8.

Guess who can’t survive that?

Engis had a 3 second immune. O wait we ripped his boons, chilled,crippled him, and WAITED to continue stunning till the immune was gone.

Thief died unless their teleport was up.

Rangers got wrecked. (hell they could survive if they got lucky evades cough sword dagger energy sigil)

Mesmer could teleport or immune they could survive.

Necros with flesh wurm or plague survived, the rest died.

Eles have mist form AND the condition removal to get away. Not to mention the teleport.

Warriors are LOL high hp, condi immune, endure pain, stab etc. Worst target until we WATCH them blow all the cd’s.

And bunker guardians are self explanatory.

The only profession that couldn’t have survived? Engi. GG.

Chaith.8256:

If you can tell me what weaknesses Warriors and Elementalists have that are more exploitable than Engineers, then you will have a decent point.

(You can’t, because Elementalists and Warriors have an even more impermeable defense, with fewer exploitable weaknesses.)

JinDaVikk.7291:

I just love how everybody starts twisting words, making crap up, and jumping on the engi with no basis. Srsly people there are FAR FAR more worrying builds, professions, Un-counterable poop, and broken mechanics, bugs, No qol updates and the list goes on and on. Yet you harp on engis.

Your priorities are way off.

You’re both quite right that Engineer isn’t the only class with a balance issue, but that doesn’t mean the problems with Engineer should be ignored because there’s other stuff wrong.

Rusc.4978:

Chaith.8256:

If you can tell me what weaknesses Warriors and Elementalists have that are more exploitable than Engineers, then you will have a decent point.

(You can’t, because Elementalists and Warriors have an even more impermeable defense, with fewer exploitable weaknesses.)

JinDaVikk.7291:

I just love how everybody starts twisting words, making crap up, and jumping on the engi with no basis. Srsly people there are FAR FAR more worrying builds, professions, Un-counterable poop, and broken mechanics, bugs, No qol updates and the list goes on and on. Yet you harp on engis.

Your priorities are way off.

You’re both quite right that Engineer isn’t the only class with a balance issue, but that doesn’t mean the problems with Engineer should be ignored because there’s other stuff wrong.

Absolutely agree. I think far too many people brush off issues simply because they aren’t literally the most important one. We’re not working for Arena Net, we don’t have to prioritize! If something is a problem, discuss if it really is a problem, not just brush it off with a “other things are worse”.

Steb.2571:

vincecontix.1264:

Steb.2571:

Chaith.8256:

Steb.2571:

Sorry, I thought an AOE burn on heal was pretty strong, with additional burning and might duration, on top of running might sigil for might stacking.

Do you still play this game, you dinosaur?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Balthazar

Ain’t no might duration.

Fair enough, I thought it gave might duration as well. Either way, your still getting an aoe burn for 4s+ every time you heal, that alone is strong as kitten, when your heal also blast finishes, aoe heals and clenses, and has the highest healing per second. Balth is still run by several engi’s, though strength is also an insanely strong option when you have 0s swap cooldown, and can get the swap buff instantly, every time it’s off CD.

The fact you think engi isn’t overpowered is hysterical though.

Op compared to what though? Engi comparing himslef to Celest might stacking Ele, might stacking hambow/axebow Wars, and Necros, might have a different pov than a thief comparing himself to an Engi.

Compered to the game in it’s entirety. It brings too much to the table, has a counter for everything, and has a solution for nearly any problem (both offensive and defensive) aside from condi transfer.

It’s good in nearly every situation, and has virtually no weaknesses (again, with the exception of condi transfer). It has everything, and sacrifices nothing, that’s literally a textbook definition of overpowered. There’s no trade-off or balance.

Ok I am sorry I wasted my time relpying to you. You are obviously totally bias and clueless.

Rusc.4978:

You’re both quite right that Engineer isn’t the only class with a balance issue, but that doesn’t mean the problems with Engineer should be ignored because there’s other stuff wrong.

I think it’s smarter to shave Celestial amulet, battle sigil, and fire field blasts. Or other things in common that’s elevating bruiser Eles, Engies, and Warriors above support and burst archetypes.

It’s a battle of playstyles we should be talking about here, not profession.

Last comment for now I got statistics test soon..

Yes your right we cannot brush off issues. But your forgetting the major thing…

This has been gone over for AGES.
Every issue in this game has hit the forums repeatedly.
We the player base have compiled list after list of things wrong and things that should get fixed. We literally still have a official wiki with over 700 bugs listed on it some have been around since beta. Its not that we engi’s are brushing off our class its that your kicking a dead horse, while an army ravages your village.

Far more important things to fix FIRST since we KNOW everything won’t get fixed in any decent time frame.

Chaith.8256:

Rusc.4978:

You’re both quite right that Engineer isn’t the only class with a balance issue, but that doesn’t mean the problems with Engineer should be ignored because there’s other stuff wrong.

I think it’s smarter to shave Celestial amulet, battle sigil, and fire field blasts. Or other things in common that’s elevating bruiser Eles, Engies, and Warriors above support and burst archetypes.

It’s a battle of playstyles we should be talking about here, not profession.

Gear balance is a tricky discussion, but I think that’s where the core of the balancing issues are. It’s difficult to objectively balance profession skills when build effectiveness can swing so widely with gear choice, and there seems to be a trend of buffing gear, and then nerfing the builds that synchronize with the gear instead of nerfing the gear. S/D Thief, for example.

I’d like to see a complete rework of the gear system so that buildcrafting isn’t so dependent on accessory benefits, but I think it’s more likely for me to look out my window today and see a flock of pigs migrating south for the winter.

This thread has gone too far…
I play celestial engi at the highest tier of pvp in this game, before celestial I played condi. Engineer has always been in the meta but with the introduction of celestial amulet it became more than just meta. Condi engineer is very similar to condi necro in the sense that we sacrifice a defensive mechanism to obtain very high damage statistics….
With celestial amulet/strength runes/the new sigils and might stacking in general… alot of builds and classes that would otherwise be tanky become just as lethal as some zerker classes… while they currently are a little overpowered, all these tanky high damage classes have one thing in common (except ele #tobroketocare) low mobility… engis, necros, warriors all have poor mobility compared to the zerker classes (thief, mesmer) as i pointed out earlier this trade off is quite simple….. whether or not the mobility is equal to the survivability is what needs to be looked at…..

Ele-High mobility, High Personal Sustain, High Team Sustain, High Condi(Burn), Medium Physical damage
Engi-Medium Mobility, Medium Personal Sustain, Medium Team Sustain, High Condi, Extremely High Physical damage
Warrior-Low Mobility, High Personal Sustain, Low Team Sustain (Def), Medium Condi, High Physical Damage

Thief-Extremely High Mobility, High Personal Sustain (if you have a reaction time and basic awareness), Low team Sustain (refuge), Low Condi, High Physical

gotta go to class will finish later

shimmerless.4560:

If you want to run triple kits/two kits + gun then suck it up and make do with what you’ve got.

If you want to run berserker with no condi removal against an engineer then suck it up, right?

Hypocrisy level over 9000

Bah if they ever decide it’s about time to tone down this engineers bullrainbow, all the engies out there will just switch to your regular cele ele.

Steb.2571:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Who cares if engi is easy to focus down for the absolute top tier? It’s kittening off everyone who isn’t an absolute god at this game.

It’s not, My team has 4 zerkers, we’re a top team, and we refuse to focus an engi because it will just shield, into s, into dodgerolls, into stealth, back into shield. By this point either we have downs and are still trying to focus it with 0 effect, or dead.

you guys focus me alot in our scrims, that’s a lie :P. i only live because i use S to get to LoS but give you guys the point

Reevz.2617:

Steb.2571:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Who cares if engi is easy to focus down for the absolute top tier? It’s kittening off everyone who isn’t an absolute god at this game.

It’s not, My team has 4 zerkers, we’re a top team, and we refuse to focus an engi because it will just shield, into s, into dodgerolls, into stealth, back into shield. By this point either we have downs and are still trying to focus it with 0 effect, or dead.

you guys focus me alot in our scrims, that’s a lie :P. i only live because i use S to get to LoS but give you guys the point

Yeah we’ve scrimmed Blacklisted often in the past, too. I definitely remember Steb and Zeromis both diving me, on our ledge in Graveyard (Foefire) but they didn’t do it at the same time, so they both failed, and I think Steb went into the downed state.

Reevz.2617:

Steb.2571:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Who cares if engi is easy to focus down for the absolute top tier? It’s kittening off everyone who isn’t an absolute god at this game.

It’s not, My team has 4 zerkers, we’re a top team, and we refuse to focus an engi because it will just shield, into s, into dodgerolls, into stealth, back into shield. By this point either we have downs and are still trying to focus it with 0 effect, or dead.

you guys focus me alot in our scrims, that’s a lie :P. i only live because i use S to get to LoS but give you guys the point

We always say we’re not going to, and then do because we make bad choices from time to time, but its a terrible decision for us to focus you if virtually anyone else is available.

Chaith.8256:

Reevz.2617:

Steb.2571:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Who cares if engi is easy to focus down for the absolute top tier? It’s kittening off everyone who isn’t an absolute god at this game.

It’s not, My team has 4 zerkers, we’re a top team, and we refuse to focus an engi because it will just shield, into s, into dodgerolls, into stealth, back into shield. By this point either we have downs and are still trying to focus it with 0 effect, or dead.

you guys focus me alot in our scrims, that’s a lie :P. i only live because i use S to get to LoS but give you guys the point

Yeah we’ve scrimmed Blacklisted often in the past, too. I definitely remember Steb and Zeromis both diving me, on our ledge in Graveyard (Foefire) but they didn’t do it at the same time, so they both failed, and I think Steb went into the downed state.

We haven’t scrimmed you guys in over a year, and we didn’t have zero then, we had mila and spoons the one time I recall our teams fighting in a random team queue. And Rar basically ran a muck on us. lol

Steb.2571:

Chaith.8256:

Reevz.2617:

Steb.2571:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Who cares if engi is easy to focus down for the absolute top tier? It’s kittening off everyone who isn’t an absolute god at this game.

It’s not, My team has 4 zerkers, we’re a top team, and we refuse to focus an engi because it will just shield, into s, into dodgerolls, into stealth, back into shield. By this point either we have downs and are still trying to focus it with 0 effect, or dead.

you guys focus me alot in our scrims, that’s a lie :P. i only live because i use S to get to LoS but give you guys the point

Yeah we’ve scrimmed Blacklisted often in the past, too. I definitely remember Steb and Zeromis both diving me, on our ledge in Graveyard (Foefire) but they didn’t do it at the same time, so they both failed, and I think Steb went into the downed state.

We haven’t scrimmed you guys in over a year, and we didn’t have zero then, we had mila and spoons the one time I recall our teams fighting in a random team queue. And Rar basically ran a muck on us. lol

You’re right, it was teamqueue. That was only a couple weeks ago, though.

Engi’s stunbreaks are indeed bad like Chaith said. I honestly think the people complaining about Engis are uninnovative Mesmer mains or something.

Thiefs complaining about Engis are probably spamming too much downstate its not even funny.

It’s not like Engis can be immune to condis anymore or be indefinitely immune to CC like some classes.

^^ the good ol (horrid in fact) days where I could 1v4 indefinitely against engi ranger necro and guardian while on my decap engi…

lol condi immune is gone,
Now its celestial meta so they go back to complaining about the one class weak to conditions.
The hilarity.

JinDaVikk.7291:

the one class weak to conditions.

One class weak to conditions? That sound I hear must be the laughter coming from the Mesmer forum.

JinDaVikk.7291:

^^ the good ol (horrid in fact) days where I could 1v4 indefinitely against engi ranger necro and guardian while on my decap engi…

lol condi immune is gone,
Now its celestial meta so they go back to complaining about the one class weak to conditions.
The hilarity.

The very fact that you liked/played decap engineer shows you couldn’t care less about the state or design of this game.

Arachnid lol read my post do you see the word turret ANYWHERE. I was making a joke about condition immunity on my old engi which didn’t use a single turret unless u count supply crate, and I never killed a single person lol. The reason I played that build was to FIX the obvious flaw with immunity since no one had ever managed to get immunities nerfed.
The entire post of that joke post was mentioning the absurdly broken trait. Read before you comment.

Mesmers have condi removal I would love to have. BUT you are correct they can’t take them without losing all viability in tpvp… Thieves are obviously lacking as well I mis-typed that sentence I was primarily thinking of the warrior/ele/guardian comps flying around atm.

“engineer is balanced because two or more (coordinated) players can kill it when they team up against it by itself”

in what world

Steb.2571:

Let’s play the “How do we know its broken game” All logical reasons aside (because I could make an obscenely large list of reasons), you can simply enter a yoloqueue and see 3+ engi’s per team, and you have your answer.

On that note, I bring to you a screenshot from one of my solo queues. We ended up winning 500-374.

sinject.4607:

“engineer is balanced because two or more (coordinated) players can kill it when they team up against it by itself”

in what world

Most misleading fake quote of the year

Rusc.4978:

Steb.2571:

Let’s play the “How do we know its broken game” All logical reasons aside (because I could make an obscenely large list of reasons), you can simply enter a yoloqueue and see 3+ engi’s per team, and you have your answer.

On that note, I bring to you a screenshot from one of my solo queues. We ended up winning 500-374.

I see 5 engineers. I wonder why so many people are playing engineer. hmmmm

On a side note. Here I am, still waiting for SOMEONE TO TELL ME HOW ANY OF THE THINGS IN MY OP ARE WELL DESIGNED OR HAVE DECENT COUNTERPLAY

Arachnid.4062:

On a side note. Here I am, still waiting for SOMEONE TO TELL ME HOW ANY OF THE THINGS IN MY OP ARE WELL DESIGNED OR HAVE DECENT COUNTERPLAY

Engi’s have counterplay, and engi’s also have counterplay for your counterplay lololololololololololol
#seriouslevelsminimal

Arachnid.4062:

On a side note. Here I am, still waiting for SOMEONE TO TELL ME HOW ANY OF THE THINGS IN MY OP ARE WELL DESIGNED OR HAVE DECENT COUNTERPLAY

Well if you want the TL:DR on counterplay, Turrets die, Burning gets cleansed, and Elixir Gun Engineers get a rectum full of fists from the enemy team rush with no Invuln/Stealth.

Edit: But no reason to try and convince anybody that they’re well designed. A.I. especially, can rot.

Harbinger.8637:

All of pvp is a joke, so who cares.

is this considered necroing?

Chaith.8256:

sinject.4607:

“engineer is balanced because two or more (coordinated) players can kill it when they team up against it by itself”

in what world

Most misleading fake quote of the year

ok then give me an argument that engie isn’t overpowered that doesn’t revolve almost entirely around engineer dying to two or more players at once (which is all you’ve done so far) or that condition necro counters engineers despite the fact that condition necro is then countered by multiple common meta builds.

you’d be the first engineer to actually manage it if you do

Arachnid.4062:

On a side note. Here I am, still waiting for SOMEONE TO TELL ME HOW ANY OF THE THINGS IN MY OP ARE WELL DESIGNED OR HAVE DECENT COUNTERPLAY

• The main culprit with turrets is the knockback and damage when they die or are exploded. It makes melee AoE counter-productive and easy for the engi to keep control of the node. The nerf on the range wasn’t enough.

• You don’t even need Balthazar runes to make this overly powerful. It’s 5sec in most builds because of the +30% duration from the Explosives trait line. Needs nerfed so that it’s only minimal extra damage. Most maser level traits are +10% damage.

• In non-turret builds, Supply Crate is very powerful 1v1, but so are many other longer cooldown elites. In a group fight, the turrets go down very fast if you drop it in the group. Could use a small nerf. In a turret build, it’s pretty ridiculous, but that’s more of a turret build problem.

• Elixir gun auto-attack damage isn’t that spectacular, so I don’t see it being that broken.

• I don’t see how you get anywhere close to 1k HP per second, unless you’re counting supply crate med kits. Yes, the HP/sec on healing turret is one of the highest for a heal, but engineers don’t have much access to protection (except turret builds), condition removal, or stability.