Guild Wars 2

Just had a match where everyone on my team had a dragon finisher… Hence R80….
It’s funny because everyone knew where to go they knew the rotations. they knew to focus the enemy treb, they never fought off point etc etc.

People can say all they want that rank=/=skill… But I still say that the higher your rank the more likely you are to know what the heck to do in a tournament match… Hence I still think they should implement a min rank requirement to soloque….

Well, generally speaking if you ever reached 55 (outside of hammer farmers) you should at least know the move very basics of how to fight in a circle…

What should this rank requirement be? While I don’t consider myself a top notch player, I do consider hotjoin a form of torture. If I was unable to do solo arenas because the limit was at 40 for example, I’d stop playing PvP. There is no way in the Mists I’d grind hotjoin and cringe for weeks to get to an arbitrary limit like that.

You do have to admit that a lot of the players are clueless about how the maps work, because the blurb of text you get pre-match isn’t really helping a newcomer understand what to do and how to play. Our benevolent Arenanet overlords could do quite a bit here in the form of a tutorial, or heaven forbid, a Tutorial Tournament Circuit that you have to play through successfully to get into the vapid solo queue. Professions and their roles could use similar tutorials.

Also MMR should start from zero or very low.

You wouldn’t believe the amount of times I get told off because the person I am trying to get to stomp, res, cap, etc said “I have a legendary l2p the game noob”, Then I ask what their sPvP rank is and they say “Rank 16 what do you know scrub?”

Oakwind.6187:

What should this rank requirement be? While I don’t consider myself a top notch player, I do consider hotjoin a form of torture. If I was unable to do solo arenas because the limit was at 40 for example, I’d stop playing PvP. There is no way in the Mists I’d grind hotjoin and cringe for weeks to get to an arbitrary limit like that.

You do have to admit that a lot of the players are clueless about how the maps work, because the blurb of text you get pre-match isn’t really helping a newcomer understand what to do and how to play. Our benevolent Arenanet overlords could do quite a bit here in the form of a tutorial, or heaven forbid, a Tutorial Tournament Circuit that you have to play through successfully to get into the vapid solo queue. Professions and their roles could use similar tutorials.

The blurb of text is really all they need to focus on “Hold on to your points, Seize theirs.” That really is the long and short of winning matches… The problem arises when you get new comers that spend 90% of the match fighting off point chasing one thief around the map while the rest of their team back caps your point….

People seriously have referred to a pixel grindable as a merit? That’s a new low if anything is, along with rank 16. Even I am way past that.

Also people do not really read the blurb. If they did, they wouldn’t chase the kitten thieves. You “win” when the enemy doesn’t cap the point and you do, and this isn’t clear enough somehow. A lot of the people play as if it were TDM. You do get +5 for killing somebody, but that’s not really good if you just had close decap and lost mid for it.

So yeah, either a tutorial circuit everyone has to play through to “graduate” or video tutorials or something?

Ofcourse you gain more knowledge as you rank up, and ofcourse there’s going to be people who are naturally good at PvP even at low ranks. That being said, I still think there should be a minimum requirement of rank 10 for tournaments. There’s nothing more annoying than trying to teach someone how to play during a tournament game. I’d like to think rank 10 would give you enough knowledge to play tournaments at the very least on a somewhat helpful level.

Oakwind.6187:

People seriously have referred to a pixel grindable as a merit? That’s a new low if anything is, along with rank 16. Even I am way past that.

It’s happened so many times… People gripe about toxicity toward newcomers in PvP but it doesn’t help when you try taking a mentoring approach to teaching them how to rotate and what points to focus in the context of the map and they just keep doing their own thing then back talking saying “lol I got the most kills scrub” because that is relevant!

And the lowest I’ve had was a r2 on an enemy team… This is after the patch. So yes there needs to be some arbitrary entry barrier to soloque…. Not because we don’t want a bigger population but a bigger population that is clueless is worse than waiting 10 min for a que.

To be fair… Rank 80 isnt any different than having a Legendary. Rank 80 is the “grind” legendary of PVP, whereas Legendaries are for PVE heros. A grind is a grind. All rank 80 says is “I’ve done this before, quite a bit”, but doesnt say “I learned from my time doing it”. It CAN, but it doesn’t directly mean that.

ronpierce.2760:

To be fair… Rank 80 isnt any different than having a Legendary. Rank 80 is the “grind” legendary of PVP, whereas Legendaries are for PVE heros. A grind is a grind. All rank 80 says is “I’ve done this before, quite a bit”, but doesnt say “I learned from my time doing it”. It CAN, but it doesn’t directly mean that.

Yes however the amount of rank 80s that are completely clueless are few and far between….

jportell.2197:

ronpierce.2760:

To be fair… Rank 80 isnt any different than having a Legendary. Rank 80 is the “grind” legendary of PVP, whereas Legendaries are for PVE heros. A grind is a grind. All rank 80 says is “I’ve done this before, quite a bit”, but doesnt say “I learned from my time doing it”. It CAN, but it doesn’t directly mean that.

Yes however the amount of rank 80s that are completely clueless are few and far between….

You could say the same about people with Legendaries in reference to PVE and WvW, and at the very least WVW can offer some pvp insight. Learning to stand on points and rotate doesn’t take long. Long story short; if anyone has to say “I have x, so I’m obviously better” for ANY reason, chances are they’re over compensating. Some people will be bad no matter what they achieve (grind wise).

Complains not enough people to PvP.
Complains when too many people do PvP.

Oh you guys!

jportell.2197:

You wouldn’t believe the amount of times I get told off because the person I am trying to get to stomp, res, cap, etc said “I have a legendary l2p the game noob”, Then I ask what their sPvP rank is and they say “Rank 16 what do you know scrub?”

I’ve literally never had this happen to me.

I’m also only rank 34 or something like that currently, and yet I somehow am able to easily maintain top 200 solo queue (disregarding decay) while exclusively playing mesmer. What does that say with regards to rank meaning skill?

Pyroathiest.4168:

jportell.2197:

You wouldn’t believe the amount of times I get told off because the person I am trying to get to stomp, res, cap, etc said “I have a legendary l2p the game noob”, Then I ask what their sPvP rank is and they say “Rank 16 what do you know scrub?”

I’ve literally never had this happen to me.

I’m also only rank 34 or something like that currently, and yet I somehow am able to easily maintain top 200 solo queue (disregarding decay) while exclusively playing mesmer. What does that say with regards to rank meaning skill?

What is an athiest?

infantrydiv.1620:

Pyroathiest.4168:

jportell.2197:

You wouldn’t believe the amount of times I get told off because the person I am trying to get to stomp, res, cap, etc said “I have a legendary l2p the game noob”, Then I ask what their sPvP rank is and they say “Rank 16 what do you know scrub?”

I’ve literally never had this happen to me.

I’m also only rank 34 or something like that currently, and yet I somehow am able to easily maintain top 200 solo queue (disregarding decay) while exclusively playing mesmer. What does that say with regards to rank meaning skill?

Hmmm… I just searched for you on gw2score.com and they’ve never heard of you ^.^

Also, what is an athiest?

Ah yeah, you’ll want to search for Pyroatheist.9031

This account is my forum alt.

http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/player/pyroatheist9031

Pyroathiest.4168:

infantrydiv.1620:

Pyroathiest.4168:

jportell.2197:

You wouldn’t believe the amount of times I get told off because the person I am trying to get to stomp, res, cap, etc said “I have a legendary l2p the game noob”, Then I ask what their sPvP rank is and they say “Rank 16 what do you know scrub?”

I’ve literally never had this happen to me.

I’m also only rank 34 or something like that currently, and yet I somehow am able to easily maintain top 200 solo queue (disregarding decay) while exclusively playing mesmer. What does that say with regards to rank meaning skill?

Hmmm… I just searched for you on gw2score.com and they’ve never heard of you ^.^

Also, what is an athiest?

Ah yeah, you’ll want to search for Pyroatheist.9031

This account is my forum alt.

I actually just found your alt, which is why I edited my original post. What you do on your alt is pretty much the easiest way to boost your rank by waiting 4-5 days inbetween matches. I used this method on my alt and achieved rank 6 sq fairly easily. Playing daily I would not have gotten close to that rank.

infantrydiv.1620:

Pyroathiest.4168:

infantrydiv.1620:

Pyroathiest.4168:

jportell.2197:

You wouldn’t believe the amount of times I get told off because the person I am trying to get to stomp, res, cap, etc said “I have a legendary l2p the game noob”, Then I ask what their sPvP rank is and they say “Rank 16 what do you know scrub?”

I’ve literally never had this happen to me.

I’m also only rank 34 or something like that currently, and yet I somehow am able to easily maintain top 200 solo queue (disregarding decay) while exclusively playing mesmer. What does that say with regards to rank meaning skill?

Hmmm… I just searched for you on gw2score.com and they’ve never heard of you ^.^

Also, what is an athiest?

Ah yeah, you’ll want to search for Pyroatheist.9031

This account is my forum alt.

I actually just found your alt, which is why I edited my original post. What you do on your alt is pretty much the easiest way to boost your rank by waiting 4-5 days inbetween matches. I used this method on my alt and achieved rank 6 sq fairly easily. Playing daily I would not have gotten close to that rank.

Eh, it’s not so much as I purposefully do it as much as I get bored of PvPing rather rapidly, and so I tend to not do it for weeks/months at a time. That being said, I fail to see the relation between playing intermittently and gaining more rank. It’s just a pure win/loss relation no matter what.

rank 30 requirement ideal.

No. Rank floor is stupid and will kill a game this small.

Rank 10 I think is the ideal spot for tourney entry. It is the basic level saying you have put time in to PvP and if stops players from just jumping in to tPvP without a clue and unwilling to listen. You may still get those unwilling to listen, but they will at least understand the basics as long as they didn’t grind deathmatch.

So just take in to consideration that sticking it to high will be more of a detriment then a good thing, since if it is to high you will have no one that wants to even try to get to those levels. So 30 I think is to high and will detract players to heavily, I know if I had to grind hot-joins to 30 just to tPvP there would be no way in hell I would enter the game mode. 20 I would say would be pushing it and may be viable, but I would still stick with 10.

Honestly, a bigger problem is the complete and total lack of any sort of explanation. There was a recent thread in the mesmer forums from a guy asking help with pvp, cause he was completely clueless. He’d been playing it, but he didn’t really know the objectives well enough, or how to fight them, or what the difference between arenas and hotjoins and stuff were.

He at least had the presence of mind to ask, and has since learned, but the very fact that he had to ask those questions is indicative of a big problem in the new player experience for pvp.

Rank 20 would be perfect

Force people to grind in order to PvP? What is this WoW?

Shockwave, you have to work for it, just like you have to work towards getting a commander badge. Thus why I said 10. You need to be 11 and have 250 badges before you can get a commanders badge, why not add a lvl 10 PvP rank to being able to enter tourneys? Or what about the rank pre-raq for Gift of Battle? It requires you to be rank 14 in WvW to get.

Having a base-line entry is a good thing for certain things, and tourny PvP would be a good idea to stick at least a small pre-req so you don’t push players in that don’t know the game mode. If MMR worked better it wouldn’t be as big as an issue, but being as if you have no MMR it doesn’t treat you as if your rank 1 or 9000 it just throws you in right away and you either get lucky and win and start out with a high rank or lose and drop to the lower ranks. Thus continuing the process of not really learning minus maybe a few basics as those first few matches hit.

So if you want to call that a forced grind, tell me how long did it take you to get to 10? I know I was 10 in the first few days of owning GW2 and that was before the initial gem tourneys were around.

Klocknov.8219:

Shockwave, you have to work for it, just like you have to work towards getting a commander badge. Thus why I said 10. You need to be 11 and have 250 badges before you can get a commanders badge, why not add a lvl 10 PvP rank to being able to enter tourneys? Or what about the rank pre-raq for Gift of Battle? It requires you to be rank 14 in WvW to get.

Having a base-line entry is a good thing for certain things, and tourny PvP would be a good idea to stick at least a small pre-req so you don’t push players in that don’t know the game mode. If MMR worked better it wouldn’t be as big as an issue, but being as if you have no MMR it doesn’t treat you as if your rank 1 or 9000 it just throws you in right away and you either get lucky and win and start out with a high rank or lose and drop to the lower ranks. Thus continuing the process of not really learning minus maybe a few basics as those first few matches hit.

So if you want to call that a forced grind, tell me how long did it take you to get to 10? I know I was 10 in the first few days of owning GW2 and that was before the initial gem tourneys were around.

I have no idea how long it takes to get to r10.

What I do know is that this is not an issue. It creates a melting pot, where people are exposed to ragers and educaters about rank disparity, which you can love or hate. In the end it won’t matter once MMR is refined or Ladders are rolled out.

I can guarantee if I had to hotjoin to rank 20 I would have exited the mists and happily never returned. It is insanely boring, doesn’t make you learn anything, and would be a stupid grind.

Rank 10 is reasonable. You’ve exposed them to PvP for a while, let them play around a bit, and frankly by rank 10 they’re either going to have taken to learning PvP, or they haven’t and never will.

They should make it so ranked arena can only be played once you reach x level. Before that you can play a non-ranked arena and hot joins. Exp rewarded for non-ranked should be high for a win and minimal for a loss, this way there is practically an amount of wins required to play ranked.

I don’t think anyone suggesting a rank/level requirement to do tourney’s understands that Hotjoin and Tourney’s are played extremely differently.

I go to hotjoin, because I know people aren’t serious, and are largely more casual not intending to be more competitive.

Hotjoin is where I test play professions and builds I’m not used to, I don’t play to win the match, I play to win fights, seeking out different professions to learn a build, whether they’re on point or not.

I see other people doing this as well. Putting a competitive person in a more casual environment isn’t the right call. Additionally what will newer pvper’s do who want to form up with their friends and guildies? Jump into a hotjoin server with 3-5 open slots, hope that the other 5-7 people don’t join the teams in a way that y’all are separated? Really?

Even entertaining the idea of these kinds of restrictions to tourney PvP seems incredibly dumb (for lack of a better word I can think of) in my personal opinion. The player/team rating systems just need their improvements is all, we’ve already got the influx of players due to rewards that will help with matchmaking.

I should also bring up that I’ve taken my pvp newcomer friends/guildies into custom arenas without progression to teach them the basics of PvP. It doesn’t take but a few matches and an easy to play build to get them off and running.

Another thing I should bring up, that’s less of one, but still an issue are alt accounts. What then? Skilled driver, but since the account hasn’t been proven you restrict their pvp access? Seriously?

Yeah but seeing how its been two years and the matchmaking is still terrible and with no change in sight a rank restriction would be easier and more immediate fix.

jportell.2197:

ronpierce.2760:

To be fair… Rank 80 isnt any different than having a Legendary. Rank 80 is the “grind” legendary of PVP, whereas Legendaries are for PVE heros. A grind is a grind. All rank 80 says is “I’ve done this before, quite a bit”, but doesnt say “I learned from my time doing it”. It CAN, but it doesn’t directly mean that.

Yes however the amount of rank 80s that are completely clueless are few and far between….

Rank does not mean a thing in my book. I am rank 28 if I’m not wrong, but I spent most of my time before playing PvP in World vs. World, the roaming part of it, not the blobbing.

I learned to control my classes, learned enemy movements and learned weaknesses and strengths alike, and I do believe I’m skilled enough to hold myself in most fights.

Structured PvP in itself does not differ a lot from roaming (solo, 5-man) in WvW. Both ways of PvP involve opportunism: know when to fight, know when not to.
The only difference for SPvP seems to be that you win based on your capping/decapping/holding capture points.

So no, I do not think that rank is a requirement for being a ‘good’ SPvP player.

jportell.2197:

Just had a match where everyone on my team had a dragon finisher… Hence R80….
It’s funny because everyone knew where to go they knew the rotations. they knew to focus the enemy treb, they never fought off point etc etc.

People can say all they want that rank=/=skill… But I still say that the higher your rank the more likely you are to know what the heck to do in a tournament match… Hence I still think they should implement a min rank requirement to soloque….

R80 may not equate to skill, but it does/should show some kind of experience and knowledge in PvP and know where to go and what to do. What it doesn’t do is necessarily make them a better player against another.

Hmph, I’m only a rabbit, but even I understand these basics. Sheesh. It’s not rocket science.

This really isn’t that much different than (correctly played) GW1 AB. Each map has it’s specifics obviously, but so did the AB maps. It’s really not so hard to pick up…

l0l people actually think leaderboard rankings means something. Gw2scores also doesn’t update properly and is bugged most of the time.

Think about it like this; who would you rather have in your team.

- Pvprank 10, leaderboard rank 50.
- Pvprank 80, leaderboard rank 500.

I would personally go for the later in 99% of the cases, unless the first is an alt account.. Its very likely that the first one is only there due to sheer luck (+ the crappy MMR system) and he most certainly lacks experience in important areas like rotating.

Locuz.2651:

Think about it like this; who would you rather have in your team.

- Pvprank 10, leaderboard rank 50.
- Pvprank 80, leaderboard rank 500.

I would personally go for the later in 99% of the cases, unless the first is an alt account.. Its very likely that the first one is only there due to sheer luck (+ the crappy MMR system) and he most certainly lacks experience in important areas like rotating.

^This 1000x over. I care less about leaderboard ranking and much more about good matches. I love matches where the last score is 500 to 480+. Matches that come down to the wire and keep you on your toes the entire time. Being matched with people who have no clue what they are doing doesn’t make for an interesting match for either team.

I guess what it really nails down to is this: it’s just impossible to mathematically analyze someone’s potency in the game.

No really, it really is impossible.

You’re always going to find outliers. Always. Just because someone’s Rank 80 or Top 50 leaderboards really doesn’t mean a thing. The amount of time you invest into something may give you a greater CHANCE of excelling, but there is no direct causal link with time invested = good PvP experience. You could be running to same braindead regen+condi crap for the entirety of your life and never touched a volatile power build that dramatically depends on user-activated actives in order to succeed in team fights or duels.

I’ve seen plenty of competent R30-40s commit great fights, and were utterly embarrassed in seeing R80s just camp home point all match long.

The only true sure fire way of making sure a player is good is looking at them on individual basis. It’s complicated, sure, but it’s really the only way. Watch how they fight, how they move, where they go contingent on where allies are, etc etc. It can be anyone, any rank and any MMR rating.

Completely take away auto level 80 and make the games level based with a minimum level and maximum level for battlegrounds/structured pvp. Then allow only gear on your character into the match. That would be a dream come true.

When rank is above 50 or so it is usually a decent indicator that someone knows what they are doing. Restricting lower rankings from playing would introduce an entirely new problem, however, in further restricting the PvP population.

Even worse, it would discourage new players. Much of the appeal of PvP is that they don’t have to grind their way through the entire game to be able to play it. There is a huge amount to learn about PvP, but having a rule that prevents people from enjoying it however they like until they’re “experienced enough” is more than enough to prevent a lot of people from caring at all.

It also makes the rest of us look like elitist snobs. Ultimately you can’t punish players for being bad or inexperienced, else the losing team would always have at least one or two players being punished. Take the bad with the good and try to remember that everyone was brand new and learning once.