Guild Wars 2

MOST IMPORTANT EDIT:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Versed_in_Stone
I believe the source of the issue here is this trait. Based off the numbers, the damage reduction appears to be additive instead of multiplicative.
Only reduction trait working in addition.
—————————————————————————————————-

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Tempest_-_D/F_Auramancer

Between:
Clerics amulet +900 toughness
Stone Flesh (earth attune) +150 toughness
Hardy Conduit—> protection is 40% reduction and frost aura for 10% more
Geomancer’s Defense 10% reduction within 600 range
Frost Aura 10% damage reduction

This happened today. I had seen it in the past but I thought my eyes were fooling me. And now I have proof.
Kappa
Combat log please.

Eviscerate for 17 damage. And that is a critical hit.
I am berserker amulet warrior with 209% crit damage, 2375 power
Stick and Move +10% damage
I do not think I had berserker’s power buff

Let’s break this down. I will assume level 1 eviscerate although it may have been higher.
Eviscerate (2.0x) coefficient, axe damage average (857+1048)/2=952.5
Damage = (weapon damage * skill coefficient * power)/armor

So eviscerate level 1 should be
2.0 * 952.5 * 2375*(2.09 crit hit)/(2888 armor total=toughness with clerics and soldiers)
Should be 3273 damage.

Now let’s factor in traits.

3273 * 1.1(stick and move) / [ (1.075 Stone flesh)* 1.1(frost armor) * 1.1 (geomancer defense)*1.4(protection+hardy conduit)

New damage
1982 after traits.

However I did 17 damage.
That means damage mitigation was 99.2%
How is that even possible?
What am I missing? Bug? Other traits?
Maybe Warrior has loss the will to fight?

If it matters, there was also a revenant and a mesmer in the fight.

Calculation assuming a phantasmal defender is in the area.
Half of incoming damage is directed to defender.

Damage v2= 1982/ 2.0(defender)
Damage is:
991

Maybe there was a second defender from deja Vu. Do not remember if it is a defender or not.

Damage becomes
496.

Still doesn’t add up.
Their total team comp
Mes, rev, DH, ele, X I don;t remember.

Got to figure this out. Undisclosed damage mitigation NotLikeThis man.

EDIT: update number was not total armor. It is now total armor
EDIT2: Here is the build I was running for the number folks.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAR3ejMdQXIWFCuhApIGICKLAigBAPhXYF0vY6nCA-TpBFwAAOCANeAAMuAAVLDQ4gAob/BA

Power hate 2 stronk

Ele’s are pretty squishy imo especially after all the nerfs they did. Trust me if your whole team hits an ele all at the same time it will die. They are pretty vulnerable to conditions so maybe try a condition build with some stun daze knock back etc.

Ellie.5913:

Ele’s are pretty squishy imo especially after all the nerfs they did. Trust me if your whole team hits an ele all at the same time it will die.

That’s not the point. You should never be hitting for 17 damage on an eviscerate.

Ellie.5913:

Ele’s are pretty squishy imo especially after all the nerfs they did. Trust me if your whole team hits an ele all at the same time it will die. They are pretty vulnerable to conditions so maybe try a condition build with some stun daze knock back etc.

You consider that balanced? I would certainly hope that any class would die fast if they got 1v5.

The problem with ele is that it is too easy to stay alive in a 1v2 or 1v3 scenario. It has too much sustain.

Ruru.1302:

Ellie.5913:

Ele’s are pretty squishy imo especially after all the nerfs they did. Trust me if your whole team hits an ele all at the same time it will die.

That’s not the point. You should never be hitting for 17 damage on an eviscerate.

I don’t know.. But I will never cry about damage reduction since my favorite things to play in gw1 was an all heal/protection monk or all damage reduction skills paragon. And there is NOTHING in this game that does that kinda damage reduction/healing.

Critical Hit Eviscerate = 17 damage
Critical Hit Chop = 39 damage
Critical Hit Double Chop = 4 damage

Using a Zerker Amulet.

Yeah, something is really wrong with that Ele. Anet needs to check that out this coming April 19th Balance.
NotLikeThis man FeelsBadBruh

style.6173:

Ellie.5913:

Ele’s are pretty squishy imo especially after all the nerfs they did. Trust me if your whole team hits an ele all at the same time it will die. They are pretty vulnerable to conditions so maybe try a condition build with some stun daze knock back etc.

You consider that balanced? I would certainly hope that any class would die fast if they got 1v5.

The problem with ele is that it is too easy to stay alive in a 1v2 or 1v3 scenario. It has too much sustain.

Why wouldn’t it have a lot of sustain when it gave up everything else to get that sustain? BTW rev mes and reaper are good at killing heal bot ele. That being said what’s goin on in the pick idk as that is not the normal case

Just FYI, the divisor in the damage done calculation is the armor, which would be 3038, not the toughness, which is 2150.

It still doesn’t even come close to the numbers in the log though.

MadRabbit.3179:

Just FYI, the divisor in the damage done calculation is the armor, which would be 3038, not the toughness, which is 2150.

It still doesn’t even come close to the numbers in the log though.

How do you get 3038. I am getting 2888. what else am i missing there?
Updated calculation with 2888 armor.
EDIT: 3038 would include the trait. I was just counting base armor.

Clerics with soldiers and signet of earth is 3218 armor with 2330 toughness while in earth and 3068 armor outside of earth with 2180 toughness. That is according to my pvp build panel. Also if you did a control on it you could have triggered eye of the storm which can hit you with weakness or any of the shouts actually

Maybe you also had weakness on you?

Hey, on the bright side, Eviscerate hits through dodges ! Kappa

Weakness would not be a critical hit.
17 damage through dodge. OMG 1 stack of bleeding is stronger.

Maybe a retribution rev had a passive great dwarf proc, that’s another 50% off incoming damage.

That could be a 0.6, 0.5 and 2 0.9 damage multipliers from protection, dwarf proc, frost aura and geomancer’s defense respectively for 0.243 total.

Another 0.5 multiplier if there was an illusionary defender and if their 5th was an engi with bulwark gyro it could be halved again.

Even assuming all that, 0.9×0.9×0.6x0.5×0.5×0.5x3273 is still ~198 damage.

For some reason, I think that damage reduction might stack additively, though. So 40% from protection, 10% from geomancer’s defense, maybe 10% from frost aura and then 50% from a dwarf proc could essentially make them immune to direct damage, with the damage number you got being the result of some wonky calculations if that happens.

Serval.6458:

Maybe a retribution rev had a passive great dwarf proc, that’s another 50% off incoming damage.

That could be a 0.6, 0.5 and 2 0.9 damage multipliers from protection, dwarf proc, frost aura and geomancer’s defense respectively for 0.243 total.

Another 0.5 multiplier if there was an illusionary defender and if their 5th was an engi with bulwark gyro it could be halved again.

Even assuming all that, 0.9×0.9×0.6x0.5×0.5×0.5x3273 is still ~198 damage.

For some reason, I think that damage reduction might stack additively, though. So 40% from protection, 10% from geomancer’s defense, maybe 10% from frost aura and then 50% from a dwarf proc could essentially make them immune to direct damage, with the damage number you got being the result of some wonky calculations if that happens.

See I am thinking that some trait is acting additive while the rest are multiplicative.
Probably another rev bug lol, but if there is something there, I want to figure this out.

Keadron.9570:

style.6173:

Ellie.5913:

Ele’s are pretty squishy imo especially after all the nerfs they did. Trust me if your whole team hits an ele all at the same time it will die. They are pretty vulnerable to conditions so maybe try a condition build with some stun daze knock back etc.

You consider that balanced? I would certainly hope that any class would die fast if they got 1v5.

The problem with ele is that it is too easy to stay alive in a 1v2 or 1v3 scenario. It has too much sustain.

Why wouldn’t it have a lot of sustain when it gave up everything else to get that sustain? BTW rev mes and reaper are good at killing heal bot ele. That being said what’s goin on in the pick idk as that is not the normal case

This is extremely bad for eles really, sacrifice everything in order to survive at all. The class should be given tools to avoid dmg at all for a brief moment and with timing; dieing if failing to avoid dmg, we should not be forced into this ultra tanky bullkitten to at least play the class….then they just go crazy with balance level with sudden nerfs/buffs….really shameful way to balance a game

I don’t know why people complain about surviveability, they already listened to all the complaints before and nerfed everything that was able to survive for any amount of time and buffed necro which was already over powered to begin with. If you wanna solo kill something that seems slightly hard to kill just play a necro that should get it done.

Maybe if you buy HoT you will crit properly? :O

It was this skill
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rite_of_the_Great_Dwarf
From dwarf soul or from trait. It give u and ur team flat 50% damage reduction. Its mean if ele have protection +Geomancer’s Defense he get 100% dmg reduction, but i belive it cap at 99%. Bug or not but it was since hot, and was at s1 too.

Inbe4 “Git gud”, “L2p”, “Play meta”

And people wonder why I play Condi.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Maybe if you buy HoT you will crit properly? :O

Lol, he has HoT on his main acc xD. I believe his main acc is Legendary, last time I watched him stream it was diamond. And given how terrible that char looks I’d say he rerolled :P

Rite proc from rev? Rev atm with protection+vengeful hammers (20%) and rite can reduce all incoming damage by 100% and rev wont take any damage unless you apply vul to him. It should work similiar in similiar way to ele drastically reducing damage but unlike rev he wont gain 100% reduction. If i recall correctly there was a thread some time ago with a 12 damage vault on ele.

Thats said ele sustain is over the top and we all know it.

Burtnik.5218:

Rite proc from rev? Rev atm with protection+vengeful hammers (20%) and rite can reduce all incoming damage by 100% and rev wont take any damage unless you apply vul to him. It should work similiar in similiar way to ele drastically reducing damage but unlike rev he wont gain 100% reduction. If i recall correctly there was a thread some time ago with a 12 damage vault on ele.

Thats said ele sustain is over the top and we all know it.

Well if they get hit for less than 20 damage by one of the most powerful abilities in game, they don’t really need to sustain

Ravenmoon.5318:

Burtnik.5218:

Rite proc from rev? Rev atm with protection+vengeful hammers (20%) and rite can reduce all incoming damage by 100% and rev wont take any damage unless you apply vul to him. It should work similiar in similiar way to ele drastically reducing damage but unlike rev he wont gain 100% reduction. If i recall correctly there was a thread some time ago with a 12 damage vault on ele.

Thats said ele sustain is over the top and we all know it.

Well if they get hit for less than 20 damage by one of the most powerful abilities in game, they don’t really need to sustain

Last time i checked, evi was hitting like wet noodle. You see, despite evi being undogable due to bug nobody crying about it as nobody care about it lolwat damage. It something you can facetank nowdays and use /laugh during that time

Hot on my other account. Yes it is legendary warrior.
I was checking out f2p to help out some friends.

So it seems like the problem is additive damage reduction instead of multiplicative.
Is that bad design?
As it stands, all other classes have multiplied damage reduction. Rev would be the first with additive.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Hot on my other account. Yes it is legendary warrior.
I was checking out f2p to help out some friends.

So it seems like the problem is additive damage reduction instead of multiplicative.
Is that bad design?
As it stands, all other classes have multiplied damage reduction. Rev would be the first with additive.

More like, rev is full of bugs and additive reduction is most likely one of them. I really wont be surprised if it is.

is evis still undodgeable?

Been like this since HoT came out, say hello to revs. I saw backstab and heartseeker hitting for 10 dmg lol.

EremiteAngel.9765:

is evis still undodgeable?

Are we playing same game?

Keadron.9570:

Clerics with soldiers and signet of earth is 3218 armor with 2330 toughness while in earth and 3068 armor outside of earth with 2180 toughness. That is according to my pvp build panel. Also if you did a control on it you could have triggered eye of the storm which can hit you with weakness or any of the shouts actually

You have amazing toughness and armor stats, but at what cost? Were that you had 20k HP to go along with that. I’d hope you are removing condi faster than necros and their minions are stacking on you. I use the sigil of purity to help me with that.

I use magi amulet and rune of earth for my auramancer and I have 20k HP and roughly 1505 toughness and 2393 armor. It’s the best I’ve come up with so far to balance vitality and toughness. I was using rune of radiance which gives about 2k more HP, but drops your toughness.

So far, I’m happy with it. I can’t stand long when I’m being focused down, but it will take 3 or more players to get me. I couldn’t hurt a fly though. I keep hitting anyway to trigger the purity sigil as often as possible.

I’m sorry I went off topic. I was intrigued by the post I quoted.

Electra.7530:

Keadron.9570:

Clerics with soldiers and signet of earth is 3218 armor with 2330 toughness while in earth and 3068 armor outside of earth with 2180 toughness. That is according to my pvp build panel. Also if you did a control on it you could have triggered eye of the storm which can hit you with weakness or any of the shouts actually

You have amazing toughness and armor stats, but at what cost? Were that you had 20k HP to go along with that. I’d hope you are removing condi faster than necros and their minions are stacking on you. I use the sigil of purity to help me with that.

I use magi amulet and rune of earth for my auramancer and I have 20k HP and roughly 1505 toughness and 2393 armor. It’s the best I’ve come up with so far to balance vitality and toughness. I was using rune of radiance which gives about 2k more HP, but drops your toughness.

So far, I’m happy with it. I can’t stand long when I’m being focused down, but it will take 3 or more players to get me. I couldn’t hurt a fly though. I keep hitting anyway to trigger the purity sigil as often as possible.

I’m sorry I went off topic. I was intrigued by the post I quoted.

Only 13k hp, damage is laughable, and condi clear is ok with soldiers but not enough to keep up with what’s being constantly applied. Just there to support with heals really. Tried to find a good damage spec but just couldn’t find one

As I said, kind of, I try to balance out the toughness and HP. I am not so tanky in water attune, but I’m bunkering quite a bit.

Consider the sigil of purity: 60% chance on hit to remove a condition. But, a necro + minions will stack me down faster than I can remove even with my auras (+ their damage reduction) going.

By the way, I generally receive top player stats for damage received most every match. haha. What does that tell you?

Nope, lol but its doing 17 dmg now. They either kittened it up during the patch or did what k pop is suggesting (additive boons on rev)

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

However I did 17 damage.

Warrior nerf incoming next balance patch….? 17 damage too high for proper class balance Kappa

Not going to lie though, I would be demoralized if I saw this in my combat log. Warrior really is worse than pre-HoT ranger pets..

I’d be interested in testing this to find out if there is actually a trait acting additively though. Never seen something like this before I don’t believe.

Evis does 17 damage on an ele when 6 different conditions are met?

Meanwhile, it does 0 damage to a scrapper when the scrapper is using a single skill between hammer 3, hammer 4 and slickshoes.

Warrior with rifle put me in downed state in one shot. So, they have pretty hard core skill right there. Warrior one shot and Mesmer moa transform are game breakers for me. I don’t usually recover from either of those.

Cynz.9437:

Been like this since HoT came out, say hello to revs. I saw backstab and heartseeker hitting for 10 dmg lol.

EremiteAngel.9765:

is evis still undodgeable?

Are we playing same game?

Been a known bug for a while now.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Cynz.9437:

Been like this since HoT came out, say hello to revs. I saw backstab and heartseeker hitting for 10 dmg lol.

EremiteAngel.9765:

is evis still undodgeable?

Are we playing same game?

Been a known bug for a while now.

i never had issues dodging it

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

If it matters, there was also a revenant and a mesmer in the fight.

Rite of the Great Dwarf

It’s the rev rites, I’ve had it happen alot before. Playing power warrior when there’s revs in the enemy team makes me cry with all their passive procs popping left and right. I had to just avoid team fights all together.

Some of the damage reduction are being added rather than multiplied, obviously.
Anet should definitely look into this. Probably as some of the ppl suspected, rite of the great dwarf is the culprit.

Exciton.8942:

Some of the damage reduction are being added rather than multiplied, obviously.
Anet should definitely look into this. Probably as some of the ppl suspected, rite of the great dwarf is the culprit.

That seems to be my conclusion as well. Considering changing thread title for the new focus. This is a rev issue, not necessarily an ele issue.

Eviscerate along with most power based skills also does 0 damage when it hits an enemy using endure the pain, is blocking, evading, invuln or if user is blinded. So why is it when you try to burst into those methods of damage mitigation it is fine even though they are all much more common than an ele that stacked defensive traits and received out side help from a revenant’s elite skill which is the only way to get that much damage reduction? Rite of the great Dwarf has a low up time at best (especially on an ele), so handle it like you would any other form of defensive skill and don’t mindlessly use your main burst skill into it.

ArthurDent.9538:

Eviscerate along with most power based skills also does 0 damage when it hits an enemy using endure the pain, is blocking, evading, invuln or if user is blinded. So why is it when you try to burst into those methods of damage mitigation it is fine even though they are all much more common than an ele that stacked defensive traits and received out side help from a revenant’s elite skill which is the only way to get that much damage reduction? Rite of the great Dwarf has a low up time at best (especially on an ele), so handle it like you would any other form of defensive skill and don’t mindlessly use your main burst skill into it.

Massive damage mitigation usually has major tells. Engi small form, Ele mist, evade frames, etc.
But this is much harder to see.
I am not actually sure if the ele gets an icon for the rev skill.
Frankly when I used eviscerate, I was expecting reduced damage, but this is like 99% reduced for something the target did not even do.

Imagine if I popped endure pain, and you took zero damage as well.

Cynz.9437:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Cynz.9437:

Been like this since HoT came out, say hello to revs. I saw backstab and heartseeker hitting for 10 dmg lol.

EremiteAngel.9765:

is evis still undodgeable?

Are we playing same game?

Been a known bug for a while now.

i never had issues dodging it

Are you trolling or something? Evi hits in evade frames right now. These peeps..

I bet Trueshot would do more than 17 critical dmg hitting them… hue hue…

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

ArthurDent.9538:

Eviscerate along with most power based skills also does 0 damage when it hits an enemy using endure the pain, is blocking, evading, invuln or if user is blinded. So why is it when you try to burst into those methods of damage mitigation it is fine even though they are all much more common than an ele that stacked defensive traits and received out side help from a revenant’s elite skill which is the only way to get that much damage reduction? Rite of the great Dwarf has a low up time at best (especially on an ele), so handle it like you would any other form of defensive skill and don’t mindlessly use your main burst skill into it.

Massive damage mitigation usually has major tells. Engi small form, Ele mist, evade frames, etc.
But this is much harder to see.
I am not actually sure if the ele gets an icon for the rev skill.
Frankly when I used eviscerate, I was expecting reduced damage, but this is like 99% reduced for something the target did not even do.

Imagine if I popped endure pain, and you took zero damage as well.

The texture change and icon applies to both the revenant and his allies and is about as visibly distinguishable as obsidian flesh. This leaves it as a bit more obvious than endure the pain and much more obvious than signet of stone which are 2 other main skills that provide extreme damage reduction without straight up invulnerability, so not really out of line in that regard.

Cynz.9437:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Cynz.9437:

Been like this since HoT came out, say hello to revs. I saw backstab and heartseeker hitting for 10 dmg lol.

EremiteAngel.9765:

is evis still undodgeable?

Are we playing same game?

Been a known bug for a while now.

i never had issues dodging it