Guild Wars 2

As much as I would like to see a /resign or /surrender option built in, it would have to be done right.

I have yet to be in a ranked or unranked match where both teams would hit the ready button while sitting in their base, so I doubt a /resign would happen either.

But I will say that they could revamp the UI for the ready button to show the amount of ready players underneath it (5 green bars for allies, 5 red bars for opposition) to visually show how close a ready-up actually is.

Harbinger.8637:

I agree, soloq is fairly frustrating atm. I played over 150 games of soloq this off-season because I was curious how it would play out. It was a lot more frustrating than the old system. Getting matched against premades, especially when they are well known players isn’t fun, particularly when players on my team aren’t up to par.

I did have better luck during off hours, and the game was still enjoyable. However, I just started to avoid primetime and popular hours all together because it was rather frustrating.

Good on you for sticking with it for so long. I think I only played maybe 60ish games before I decided it just wasn’t much fun for me anymore. The last straw for me was getting Karmy’s full 5 man team 4 times in a row with people I didn’t even recognize on my team.

for arenanet its ALL bout Que times for full premades – thats the only thing arenanet care about and its the only thing how they manage to get players for premades

even when noone have fun with this they will force everyone to play this kitten as long as it lowers the q times for the 5-10 pro teams

full premades is top priority for everything (to can call this game competive) – noone care bout its fun

1. so its no problem to bring in all players as cannonfodder as long as it lower the Que
times – why the kitten care bout what the no premade player feel
2. Leaderboard for this full premade teams say how skilled they are with 99% wins they must be pro (in farming solo players)
3. balance in this game will be so uber with this system – how you can not call this e-sport or competive with mixed teams?

not even blizzard would be so stupid to make something like this and call it competive and even say its e-sport – just lol

Anyone here played warcraft arena? How stupid it would be when Blizzard would allow/mix solo/duo players in a team and let them fight a full 3 man team? Noone ever would think this would be a good idea

But yeah in gw2 its the way they go …. and wonder why the e-sport thing dont work^^

Opc.4718:

Sweetbread.4701:

I don’t think anyone really cares about Justin’s stats. I know I’ve had quite a few ridiculously lopsided matches vs. premades since the pvp changes.

By “quite a few”, you mean a statistically insignificant amount compared to the rest of your total matches? No match making system is perfect, and these stats show the current match maker is pretty kitten good. Justin’s stats show exactly how many lopsided matches someone is actually experiencing, and you’re going to just brush it off because “cognitive bias”.

Sorry if you want to be an Anet apologist, but the problem is getting more and more blatant the higher my matchmaking gets or maybe that’s just the current trend for people to gravitate towards premades to deal with other premades. You can quote stats or link entire wikipedia articles out of sheer laziness/trying to avoid the actual discussion if you want, but the fact of the matter is that this is an issue that shouldn’t even be happening AT ALL in any game that’s remotely trying to take it’s pvp seriously. It was a severely flawed and poorly thought out design decision and it’s only going to get worse imo.

Zietlogik.6208:

As much as I would like to see a /resign or /surrender option built in, it would have to be done right.

I have yet to be in a ranked or unranked match where both teams would hit the ready button while sitting in their base, so I doubt a /resign would happen either.

But I will say that they could revamp the UI for the ready button to show the amount of ready players underneath it (5 green bars for allies, 5 red bars for opposition) to visually show how close a ready-up actually is.

Better have it and not need it then need it and not have it. (talking bout /resign)

truthishly.9513:

Justin ODell.9517:

Gabriell.4856:

Anyway to allow us to know our chance of winning before the match starts?

I would like to quit while I’m behind and get it over with as quickly as possible.

For ranked arena during a ladder, we plan to make the information available. I wouldn’t recommend leaving in one of those matches though.

I think it would be best to show it after the match to prevent an epidemic of quitters/afkers/loudmouths. Keep morale up, some people already do a pretty good job of destroying it as soon as something goes wrong.

This. I’d like to know more about how those stats would be implemented, because as it stands, it sounds like a terrible idea.
Even if you “recommend they don’t leave” – many will. Heck, yesterday I had three people quit a match they were winning. For no logically discernible reason.

And those who stay/afk will likely be negatively influenced by the numbers. Most people are that way.

Oh, and fwiw: Solo queue is alright I guess… but if I had to pick, I’d chose the ranked/unranked over the solo/team split. Yey.

Israel.7056:

As someone who used to love doing Solo Arena my advice to the OP is simply to stop doing PvP until they reintroduce a proper Solo Arena game mode again.

Yeah, cause if EVERYONE who used to do solo queue quit we would really miss all 200 of you! I don’t think the pvp population would EVER recover from such a huge hit! :p

they didn’t consult the players before they removed Solo Arena what makes you think they’re going to care what we think now?

Well… they didn’t consult the players who played solo arena, because, like I said above there were too few people playing it! It was a toxic place full of abusive people and afkers. Newbies would come out of hotjoin and join solo arena and then quit pvp completely because their own teammates would start flaming them before the match even started! That there were a few people who enjoyed it like pigs rolling in muck is irrelevant: the number of players who had terrible experiences there was a lot bigger, and consideration for them is therefore weighed more heavily in the developers’ minds.
I personally didn’t mind solo queue. I never played there (except when I once decided to see how high I could get using a nooby minionmancer build, so I played it 2 weeks in a row, got to 265 and immediately went back to team queue), but I was ok with the fact that it existed. It was nice to have a place where all the ragequitters, AFKers, and abusive flamers went. It purged team queue and made it a nicer place. But the fact is when a new player wandered into it by accident, they would have a terrible experience, and probably assume that, oh if solo is like that, then team arena, which is probably an even more competitive environment cause you get all the pro premades there, must be even worse, so there’s NO WAY I’m going in there! As you can imagine, from a developer’s point of view it’s suicide to have an environment like that be their players’ introduction to pvp, so it had to go. It was an unpleasant, elitist, dysfunctional place, full of horrible, abusive people. Reintroducing all those people back into the general population makes the game a tiny little bit worse, but thankfully they’re so spread out we hardly notice them, and now that the option to join solo arena doesn’t exist, there’s no risk of a newbie accidentally queueing for it and thereby unknowingly dive into a pool of toxic sludge and human manure.

truthishly.9513:

Justin ODell.9517:

Gabriell.4856:

Anyway to allow us to know our chance of winning before the match starts?

I would like to quit while I’m behind and get it over with as quickly as possible.

For ranked arena during a ladder, we plan to make the information available. I wouldn’t recommend leaving in one of those matches though.

I think it would be best to show it after the match to prevent an epidemic of quitters/afkers/loudmouths. Keep morale up, some people already do a pretty good job of destroying it as soon as something goes wrong.

Absolutely agree!
I’d say make match history available on your account website, but don’t show any win predictions before a match.

Does anyone remember 2 years ago when people were crying out for solo arena? Looks like it’s gone full circle.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/This-is-of-dire-importance/first

manveruppd.7601:

Israel.7056:

As someone who used to love doing Solo Arena my advice to the OP is simply to stop doing PvP until they reintroduce a proper Solo Arena game mode again.

Yeah, cause if EVERYONE who used to do solo queue quit we would really miss all 200 of you! I don’t think the pvp population would EVER recover from such a huge hit! :p

they didn’t consult the players before they removed Solo Arena what makes you think they’re going to care what we think now?

Well… they didn’t consult the players who played solo arena, because, like I said above there were too few people playing it! It was a toxic place full of abusive people and afkers. Newbies would come out of hotjoin and join solo arena and then quit pvp completely because their own teammates would start flaming them before the match even started! That there were a few people who enjoyed it like pigs rolling in muck is irrelevant: the number of players who had terrible experiences there was a lot bigger, and consideration for them is therefore weighed more heavily in the developers’ minds.
I personally didn’t mind solo queue. I never played there (except when I once decided to see how high I could get using a nooby minionmancer build, so I played it 2 weeks in a row, got to 265 and immediately went back to team queue), but I was ok with the fact that it existed. It was nice to have a place where all the ragequitters, AFKers, and abusive flamers went. It purged team queue and made it a nicer place. But the fact is when a new player wandered into it by accident, they would have a terrible experience, and probably assume that, oh if solo is like that, then team arena, which is probably an even more competitive environment cause you get all the pro premades there, must be even worse, so there’s NO WAY I’m going in there! As you can imagine, from a developer’s point of view it’s suicide to have an environment like that be their players’ introduction to pvp, so it had to go. It was an unpleasant, elitist, dysfunctional place, full of horrible, abusive people. Reintroducing all those people back into the general population makes the game a tiny little bit worse, but thankfully they’re so spread out we hardly notice them, and now that the option to join solo arena doesn’t exist, there’s no risk of a newbie accidentally queueing for it and thereby unknowingly dive into a pool of toxic sludge and human manure.

I don’t expect quitting to make a difference for any pvp game mode because there’s not many pvpers anyways. They could probably scrap pvp entirely and it would hardly make a difference. But they didn’t ask us then why would they care what we think now?

I quit because I couldn’t do what I enjoyed doing anymore so I stopped doing pvp altogether. I suggest that he do the same thing if he’s no longer having fun. It’s a simpler solution than complaining to some dev who posts here a lot.

And I’m sorry you had a bad Solo Arena experience, my experience was mostly positive.

Sweetbread.4701:

I don’t think anyone really cares about Justin’s stats.

The stats are the truth. You can keep choosing to ignore them and thinking you’re special, that ALL your losses are because The System had it in for you, but the truth is less than 10% of your matchups were bad, and the rest of your losses were just losses and there was no special meaning or reason to them. You can believe the stats or not, but the stats don’t care if you believe in them.

Sweetbread.4701:

Opc.4718:

Sweetbread.4701:

I don’t think anyone really cares about Justin’s stats. I know I’ve had quite a few ridiculously lopsided matches vs. premades since the pvp changes.

By “quite a few”, you mean a statistically insignificant amount compared to the rest of your total matches? No match making system is perfect, and these stats show the current match maker is pretty kitten good. Justin’s stats show exactly how many lopsided matches someone is actually experiencing, and you’re going to just brush it off because “cognitive bias”.

Sorry if you want to be an Anet apologist, but the problem is getting more and more blatant the higher my matchmaking gets or maybe that’s just the current trend for people to gravitate towards premades to deal with other premades. You can quote stats or link entire wikipedia articles out of sheer laziness/trying to avoid the actual discussion if you want, but the fact of the matter is that this is an issue that shouldn’t even be happening AT ALL in any game that’s remotely trying to take it’s pvp seriously. It was a severely flawed and poorly thought out design decision and it’s only going to get worse imo.

He’s not being an apologist, he just realises that he’s not special, and neither am I, and neither are you. Your losses are not all due to the system having hosed you and put you against premades, and your wins aren’t because you’re awesome. Sure, you’ve had a few losses due to bad matchups, but you’ve had a few wins due to bad matchups for the other side too. The vast majority of your games were even fights, and what happens in an even fight is you win some and you lose some. It’s life. He’s quoting wikipedia articles because you’re exhibiting the exact symptoms of cognitive bias: you’ve had a couple of losses to premades, and you extrapolate from that to believe that ALL your losses were because of premades! But it’s just not true: the stats prove it! It’s in your game history, you might not like getting hearing that your losses are not due to an external injustice but just random losses with no special meaning, but that’s the truth.

And as to the “shouldn’t be happening at all” argument: the vast majority of team-based online competitive games only let you queue solo in unranked environments. Would you prefer that? I personally would take a small number of bad matchups to be able to avoid having to stand around shouting “LFG!” for half an hour, like I had to back when I was pugging Heroes Ascent in GW1! Just the fact that we have THE OPTION to queue solo in a team game is above and beyond what you’d get in most other games, but you have to understand that it’s a TEAM GAME and you are actually handicapping yourself. If you choose to walk around with only one shoe on, don’t force everyone else to take off theirs so you can keep up. Play solo, but BE AN ADULT and accept that sometimes the odds will be stacked against you.

Israel.7056:

And I’m sorry you had a bad Solo Arena experience, my experience was mostly positive.

I’ll be honest, I didn’t really sweat the whiners and flamers very much, and the 4v5s became less frequent when I got into the top-500. I still hated Skyhammer of course, which was reason enough to quit on its own. But if you’re low ranked and/or a beginner, and you join solo queue your experience is VERY different than what you’ve probably had. 4v5s are a pandemic at the lower reaches (queue times were long so a lot of people went afk, and there were lots of people ragequitting mid-match), and I’ve been in matches were there was a newbie and his teammates would stop playing and start abusing him in map chat for having the temerity to be below rank 40 or running a non-meta build. And because the population of solo queue was so small, ANY beginner would always get matched against experienced players, which was frustrating for both sides.
I’m glad you had a good time in solo queue, I don’t begrudge you that, but you have to understand that it really drove A LOT of people away from pvp!

I had 4v5 games but I always figured that was more a result of there being no “ready up” feature. I think a lot of people would queue with the intention of playing but then they’d afk or something and miss the pop. People would definitely leave games from time to time but usually it was 4v5 at the start.

Verbal abuse will happen. My recommendation is to either yell back or block them but try not to let them get under your skin too much because that’s probably why they’re doing it in the first place.

I don’t know how to measure everyone else’s enjoyment without some kind of comprehensive polling system. I can only really speak about mine and I enjoy this new setup much less than I enjoyed the old one. That being said I have a hard time believing that new players are having an easier time getting started but really I wouldn’t know.

Israel.7056:

I don’t know how to measure everyone else’s enjoyment without some kind of comprehensive polling system. I can only really speak about mine and I enjoy this new setup much less than I enjoyed the old one. That being said I have a hard time believing that new players are having an easier time getting started but really I wouldn’t know.

Well, luckily we don’t need to poll them, MMO devs keep track of EVERYTHING we do because these games are the most sinister of Panopticons! :p When they were thinking about whether to cut solo queue, they would have been able to look at players who have only ever played 10 or less Arena matches in their account life (and then either went back to hotjoin or left pvp completely), and see which of the two queues most of the quitters had joined.
They can also look at things like number of players being reported: if (and I’m pulling these numbers of out my rectum) team queue generated 500 reports per 10,000 matches and solo generated 800, you can tell which is the more toxic environment. You can also tell which queue had more 4v5s, ragequits, largest points spread between wins and losses (meaning more unequal matches, an expected problem when there’s a smaller population so newbies will get matched against top players), and a billion other things. So you don’t need to go around asking players whether their fee-fees got hurt by their teammates and to describe how their emotions feel in interpretative dance. We as players are just data points on their servers, and can be measured and quantified and put on an excel spreadsheed. And yes, it’s a bit sad. But these people do this stuff for a living, they already have 10 years experience at making online games, so you gotta give them a bit of credit that they actually looked at the situation and made an evidence-based decision when they cut solo queue. Can they please everyone? Of course not. But I think they made the choice that will lead to the fewest number of people getting frustrated and quitting pvp completely.

I recently came back to the game and will probably be leaving soon as well. This is a terrible design. I love the PvP in this game but i cannot believe they removed the solo q.

manveruppd.7601:

But these people do this stuff for a living, they already have 10 years experience at making online games, so you gotta give them a bit of credit that they actually looked at the situation and made an evidence-based decision when they cut solo queue. Can they please everyone? Of course not. But I think they made the choice that will lead to the fewest number of people getting frustrated and quitting pvp completely.

I have very little faith in their ability to interpret their data properly but regardless of their philosophy, I’m done with PvP because of the decision to remove Solo Arena. I don’t expect them to care about people quitting either way because I imagine most of their cash shop sales are generated by PvE fluff. I’ll continue to play the parts of the game that I can still enjoy but I will not put any more time into PvP as it’s just not fun for me. My advice to anyone who doesn’t like the current pvp system is to quit playing it and instead try to find other parts of the game that are still potentially enjoyable for them.

I can only speak for myself, but I quit GW2 because soloQ was removed. I used to play every day. That’s what I played for gaming entertainment. I value a fair game over any other criteria. 10 soloers with normalized stats/gear is as fair as I’ve found.

I’d also like to add that even if less than 1% of my matches are losses due to stacked premades against me, that is 1% too many when I used to be able to play soloQ. I don’t care about the psychobabble about perceiving this or that – fact is the patch changed it so I now have a chance to face an unfair match. I don’t care if its in my favor or not!!!

I hope other customers who would like to see soloQ returned will continue to speak up and be represented.

LOL omg i am so thankful for anet getting rid of solo que.

1- The first reason is you can take a look at all the people making post talking about solo que play. Im sorry but i solo que all the time and i still win around 50% and ive seen some of the better pvp players when playing.

2- You can see from the solo que peoples post they are whiners, complainers and they let the snowballing continue since they dont know how to play in the team concept.

3- If you think you should be on top of the leader board actually try winning and carrying some people. Im sorry ive seen some of the better players streams when they solo que and they still win. Funny thing, even when the better players solo que they still tend to win vs pre-mades when they got pugs on there team.

4- The idea anet has some how cheated you, the constant complaining of a certain type of class being op, the in game trash talking when you lose. Solo que players who suck in team play was a bad solo que player but probably got carried by another player against other bad solo que players.

5- You have someone say lets see our mmr so i know when to quit to get it over with. Yes you are a solo que player and it shows. I hope people like you quit the game cause i rather lose 500-25 in a game were we all tried but just werent good enough then play with a solo que cry baby who doesnt know what it means to play on a team.

kdaddy.5431:

5- You have someone say lets see our mmr so i know when to quit to get it over with. Yes you are a solo que player and it shows. I hope people like you quit the game cause i rather lose 500-25 in a game were we all tried but just werent good enough then play with a solo que cry baby who doesnt know what it means to play on a team.

Solo Arena still had team play it just had all solo players being made into teams as opposed to premades being matched against pugs so I really don’t know what you’re talking about.

Justin ODell.9517:

GeneralJimmy.2186:

Every single game is horrible
Keep getting unfairgames vs 3/5 man

I’m not 100% sure what you’re referencing here. Are you being stacked against pre-mades, or are people on your team leaving?

Looked up your game history for the last week and you’ve had 5 out of 67 games that had the pre-mades stacked against you.

2015-01-24 20:20:50.000 Ranked 212 5 46.0900 Victory 500 371 39.0 -4.0
2015-01-24 23:14:16.000 Ranked 11111 41 54.0600 Victory 500 437 73.0 13.0
2015-01-29 16:31:56.000 Ranked 11111 311 50.3100 Desertion 475 500 41.0 0.0
2015-01-29 18:26:21.000 Ranked 11111 5 34.6900 Defeat 228 502 -25.0 7.0
2015-01-30 19:08:08.000 Ranked 1112 5 10.7800 Defeat 132 500 -226.0 8.0

The last two are the only ones that stand out as particularly bad, but could be explained by your deviation still settling (hopefully, will need to dig deeper).

This is bullkitten – you’re oversimplifying a complex situation to the point of no longer adding anything useful to the discussion. <3 from reddit :P

Player skill as a variable doesn’t bother me. I trust the development team is coding it as fair as possible in that regard.

I don’t want to be at a disadvantage because I am not in a group, using voice comm, coordinating classes and practicing – don’t groups want to face other groups anyway? These are variables that were not present in soloQ.

I wouldn’t be posting about this if there never had been a soloQ – I never would have played PVP in GW2 at all if it had never existed, and I would have left the game months ago.

Is it entirely off the table to see the return of soloQ, or an option to volunteer for longer queues in exchange for a guaranteed solo game?

You dont know what im talking about? Seriously?

Justin is seriously feeding you info saying out of 67 matches only 5 were pre-made vs pugs and the guy won 2. Yet you still complain, Being someone who has always been ranked in both solo and team que i find it funny because the best players in solo que back then were the exact same players in the top of team ques.

Seriously you dont get where im coming from? You have these people trolling for solo que yet you only have your feelings on how things are yet when presented actual facts you look away. Lets also mention most of the people complaining are around a 40% win rate plus which means there doing a pretty good job. The idea that anything competitive will be completely equal is a insane idea. Every sport has only 1 winner yet everyone comes on this forum asking for changes and why? Because i didnt win and didnt want to face a pre-made and i didnt blah blah blah. Did you take 1 sec to say huh maybe i just wasnt as good?

The answer is no and my biggest problem has always been the solo que mentality. Groups and pre-made very rarely talk smack. Its the solo que people who talk trash to there own teammates if they lose and its cause they only solo que. They dont team up with friends or guild mates. They dont want to and thats fine but what gives you the right to complain because other people want to? Not to mention the fact that some of the best players in the game solo que and still win 65%+ of the time and you still complain about a solo que?

My point is the top players in the game are the top players and for the rest of us there needs to be a level of understanding of what it takes to either win/ or just play to have fun. You guys are complaining which i find a joke. At the end of the solo que era i had to wait over 10 min a match only to face the best players in the pvp land. Now i get to face a whole different array of levels from new guild pre-mades to solo elite que-ers to straight up getting thrashed by apex gaming and the absurd. Its like playing in a nba season, 1 night ill play the knicks and the next the hawks. Yet for some reason many of the people complaining dont get that and complain for solo que. Its a joke

kdaddy.5431:

You dont know what im talking about? Seriously?

Justin is seriously feeding you info saying out of 67 matches only 5 were pre-made vs pugs and the guy won 2. Yet you still complain, Being someone who has always been ranked in both solo and team que i find it funny because the best players in solo que back then were the exact same players in the top of team ques.

Seriously you dont get where im coming from?

No I really don’t. Even one match of premade vs. pugs is one too many if you ask me. I don’t see why anyone would accept a non zero probability of a premade being matched up against a pug team.

Just because completely equal matches are difficult to accomplish doesn’t mean anyone should accept this nonsense.

I couldn’t find anything in the rest of your rant that seemed to me to be a valid point so I will not be responding to any of it.

Justin ODell.9517:

aussieheals.6843:

This is bullkitten – you’re oversimplifying a complex situation to the point of no longer adding anything useful to the discussion. <3 from reddit :P

Eh? I was asking for more clarification because the most common complaint didn’t fit with the data.

I know lol <3 , just seemed like a fun place to post it
https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/1w7ojb/wherehow_did_this_is_bullkitten_youre/

Im sorry i solo que alot and one of the biggest things for me and a competitor is the challenge. I dont expect to win every match and i dont expect every match to be equal.

Many times when playing a competitive sport you go up against a player at your height,size and athleticism but they seem to be a little better. How am i as a competitor not except this challenge?

Your complaining about pre-mades. Im sorry but not all pre-mades are good. ive fought many guild groups and pre-made teams and ive have beaten alot of them. You once again bring up your feelings saying “Even one match of premade vs. pugs is one too many if you ask me”.

That quote right there is everything wrong with a competitive setting. Im sorry you feel that way, i really am. I for one will never understand your mindset. Ive played literally thousands of ranked games and there has never been a time where i said man im constantly getting crushed. Ive literally had a 50% win rate no matter what area i have qued into.

The reason you found nothing i said valid is because you refuse to look outside your own box. If you are constantly losing badly why not take a second and go practice? Work on a different build thats more to comfort ability? I have literally carried teams by winning a 1 vs 1 on home running to far winning the 1 vs 1 there and holding that spot vs 2 for enough time for the 4 vs 3 at mid to win so i can spawn and protect home. Know one knows your level but you and ill im saying is it sounds like you want to be catered to without excepting any form of responsibility in a competitive situation.

kdaddy.5431:

Im sorry i solo que alot and one of the biggest things for me and a competitor is the challenge. I dont expect to win every match and i dont expect every match to be equal.

I don’t expect to win every match but I do expect an effort to be made for every single match to be as fair as conceivably possible at the outset.

kdaddy.5431:

Many times when playing a competitive sport you go up against a player at your height,size and athleticism but they seem to be a little better. How am i as a competitor not except this challenge?

What?

kdaddy.5431:

Your complaining about pre-mades. Im sorry but not all pre-mades are good. ive fought many guild groups and pre-made teams and ive have beaten alot of them.

I think you’re totally missing my point. This isn’t really about winning and losing. It’s just as unpleasant to win in a premade versus pugs as it is to lose as a pug versus a premade.

kdaddy.5431:

You once again bring up your feelings saying “Even one match of premade vs. pugs is one too many if you ask me”.

That’s not a statement of a feeling but rather a statement of a moral principle. One is too many. It should not ever be allowed to happen, regardless of the outcome.

kdaddy.5431:

That quote right there is everything wrong with a competitive setting. Im sorry you feel that way, i really am. I for one will never understand your mindset. Ive played literally thousands of ranked games and there has never been a time where i said man im constantly getting crushed. Ive literally had a 50% win rate no matter what area i have qued into.

Irrelevant.

kdaddy.5431:

The reason you found nothing i said valid is because you refuse to look outside your own box. If you are constantly losing badly why not take a second and go practice? Work on a different build thats more to comfort ability? I have literally carried teams by winning a 1 vs 1 on home running to far winning the 1 vs 1 there and holding that spot vs 2 for enough time for the 4 vs 3 at mid to win so i can spawn and protect home. Know one knows your level but you and ill im saying is it sounds like you want to be catered to without excepting any form of responsibility in a competitive situation.

You’re so focused on winning and losing but it doesn’t matter to me who wins or loses. What matters to me is that the games have a significant chance of being totally unfair to begin with and that we’re supposed to accept this as necessary. Moreover there doesn’t appear to be any incremental progression between getting a disadvantaged match versus getting an advantaged one. It’s totally haphazard and that’s also unacceptable.

This is also something of a strawman as I have never said that I’ve always lost against premades or that I always queue solo.

I have to agree with what others have tried to say.

The new matchmaking is pretty kitten awesome. Id like to think that while im not a continuous player I am above average. Every few games I may run into a premade. Sure..those premades usually have the composition advantage. But that doesnt mean that they have the skill advantage to back it up.

Theres a big difference between fighting a premade and fighting a TEAM.

My only issue is if someone like me who is MAYBE above average gets partnered against a TEAM of top players. Players that have been fighting and winning against other people for a long time together.

Partner me up against a premade all you want. In most cases that just means ill get to fight a well built party with complementing builds. Im okay with that. Thats more practice for me. And when I can reliably beat them I wont be suprised to see im getting partnered against newer TEAMS. There I will probably be bouncing up and down the leaderboard ALOT which is what I want because it means I have found where I should be.

Hell with the preferred build I play I have no illusions ill ever top the leader board. I just want to max out my skill in my preferred play style. And the current matchmaking is giving me more opportunities for that with being set up against fights that are stacked against me even a little than at any time before. Its just one more way for me to get better as a PvPer.

Israel.7056:

No I really don’t. Even one match of premade vs. pugs is one too many if you ask me. I don’t see why anyone would accept a non zero probability of a premade being matched up against a pug team.

Just because completely equal matches are difficult to accomplish doesn’t mean anyone should accept this nonsense.

I couldn’t find anything in the rest of your rant that seemed to me to be a valid point so I will not be responding to any of it.

Posts like this just reek of such ridiculous entitlement it’s surprising that the devs even bother responding on the forum. You sound like you literally have your fingers in your ears and you’re screaming at the top of your lungs to prevent anything that isn’t about you getting your way from reaching your brain.

Shadelang.3012:

TL:DR ; As a pvper I cant see how your not looking FORWARD to fighting opponents stronger than you with a better team composition than you. Theres more opportunity to learn against a well built grp. Even if they have only played together for a day. Instead of blaming the matchmaking and crying about how its somehow morally wrong. Why not actually act like a PvPer and use it to get better.

I expect that kind of “BUT ITS NOT FAIR” from PvErs that get one shotted by a mechanic that is actually difficult to deal with for once. Not someone supposedly looking for a challenge.

So now we get the No True PvPer argument.

truthishly.9513:

Posts like this just reek of such ridiculous entitlement it’s surprising that the devs even bother responding on the forum. You sound like you literally have your fingers in your ears and you’re screaming at the top of your lungs to prevent anything that isn’t about you getting your way from reaching your brain.

Ad hom.

Israel.7056:

Shadelang.3012:

TL:DR ; As a pvper I cant see how your not looking FORWARD to fighting opponents stronger than you with a better team composition than you. Theres more opportunity to learn against a well built grp. Even if they have only played together for a day. Instead of blaming the matchmaking and crying about how its somehow morally wrong. Why not actually act like a PvPer and use it to get better.

I expect that kind of “BUT ITS NOT FAIR” from PvErs that get one shotted by a mechanic that is actually difficult to deal with for once. Not someone supposedly looking for a challenge.

So now we get the No True PvPer argument.

Its not a no true PvPer argument. Its simply a case of not understanding why you are upset. I just cant grasp it. I guess theres a fundamental difference in how we approach games what we we want in them. All I did was state my opinion on the matter. Although I admit it was a bit long winded. I wont judge as I don’t have the right to judge how another person plays a video game.

Im mostly trying to make you realize that your view is only one way of looking at it. And that there are MANY that view it in a completely different light.

I will say this though. Id rather lose because the enemy team was a premade that played well than because they had one more build specifically designed to abusing the old solo que system than we did.

Shadelang.3012:

Its not a no true PvPer argument.

Well it definitely appears to be worded as a disparagement to my values and a challenge to my pvper cred or whatever.

“Instead of blaming the matchmaking and crying about how it’s somehow morally wrong. Why not actually act like a PvPer…I expect that kind of “BUT IT’S NOT FAIR” from PvErs…not someone supposedly looking for a challenge."

So the first part dismisses everything I’ve said as "crying, " the second part implies that I’m not acting like a PvPer but rather a PvEr and that caring about fairness means I’m not looking for a challenge.

Shadelang.3012:

Its simply a case of not understanding why you are upset. I just cant grasp it.

Ok so why not just admit in the first place that you don’t understand? What is it that you’re unclear on?

Shadelang.3012:

I guess theres a fundamental difference in how we approach games what we we want in them.

Maybe.

Shadelang.3012:

All I did was state my opinion on the matter.

You did more than that.

Shadelang.3012:

I wont judge as I don’t have the right to judge how another person plays a video game.

But that’s exactly what you just did.

Shadelang.3012:

Im mostly trying to make you realize that your view is only one way of looking at it. And that there are MANY that view it in a completely different light.

I’m aware of that and I’ve never stated that my values are universal.

Shadelang.3012:

I will say this though. Id rather lose because the enemy team was a premade that played well than because they had one more build specifically designed to abusing the old solo que system than we did.

Ok.

@ Israel Hmm. I will admit that I hadn’t realised how judgemental the last half of that post sounded. For that I will apologize. It wasn’t my intention upon writing it but then…hindsight is 20/20 after all.

So your right. I did state far more that just my opinion in that post. Again. my fault there. It was not my intention.

Its also true that your you have not once stated that your opinions are universal. However you have very much implied that things should be the way YOU feel they should. For little more reason than that you personally disagree with the base concept of premade vs solo quers. I will say that you have the right to that opinion.

But I wish you would back it up with more than moral based reasons and more opinions. Should you wish to continue. I will endeavor to keep my future posts from being influenced by my personal feelings on the matter as much as possible.

Edit: I deleted the TLDR potion of the mentioned post. Because as you said it was most definetly NOT just my opinion on the matter. And frankly contributed nothing to the discussion.

About 7-8 hours ago I play against full premade turret engis on Courtyard. In my team only 2 guys were in the party. It’s little unfair

Theologus.7085:

About 7-8 hours ago I play against full premade turret engis on Courtyard. In my team only 2 guys were in the party. It’s little unfair

That sounds like an easy match up to me, just wait for them to pop turrets then back out and force them to fight away from their turrets. There’s no point to cap, so you can fight wherever you want.

Justin ODell.9517:

aussieheals.6843:

This is bullkitten – you’re oversimplifying a complex situation to the point of no longer adding anything useful to the discussion. <3 from reddit :P

Eh? I was asking for more clarification because the most common complaint didn’t fit with the data.

The dude is obviously trolling. Remember you’re only collecting reports of bad matchups to improve your algorithm. You don’t actually need to debate or justify it to people who are just whining and are making spurious complaints without actually having had bad matchups.

manveruppd.7601:

Justin ODell.9517:

aussieheals.6843:

This is bullkitten – you’re oversimplifying a complex situation to the point of no longer adding anything useful to the discussion. <3 from reddit :P

Eh? I was asking for more clarification because the most common complaint didn’t fit with the data.

The dude is obviously trolling. Remember you’re only collecting reports of bad matchups to improve your algorithm. You don’t actually need to debate or justify it to people who are just whining and are making spurious complaints without actually having had bad matchups.

So basically 95% of people who whine on the forums?

kdaddy.5431:

You dont know what im talking about? Seriously?

Justin is seriously feeding you info saying out of 67 matches only 5 were pre-made vs pugs and the guy won 2. Yet you still complain,

Hence my previous post: Justin should seriously stop wasting his time arguing with people like that. It’s like they’ve just been on a round the world luxury cruise at ANet’s expense and still insist the earth is flat!!!

Being someone who has always been ranked in both solo and team que i find it funny because the best players in solo que back then were the exact same players in the top of team ques.

Not only that, but having watched a lot of top-100 players stream solo queue, it’s obvious there were LOADS of shennanigans going on. People were sync-joning and got to be on the same team a lot of the time. And so many of them knew each other from team queue, and were all using the same community Teamspeak servers, so whenever 2 or more people who knew each other got on the same team they’d just jump in the same channel and play it like team queue.
The people complaining just didn’t know that any of this crap was going on. They had the illusion of fairness and were blissful in their ignorance. The fact is they’re probably getting much fairer matches now, but because they can tell they get a bad one the one time they do, suddenly they’re all indignant and furious.

The answer is no and my biggest problem has always been the solo que mentality. Groups and pre-made very rarely talk smack. Its the solo que people who talk trash to there own teammates if they lose and its cause they only solo que. They dont team up with friends or guild mates. They dont want to and thats fine but what gives you the right to complain because other people want to? Not to mention the fact that some of the best players in the game solo que and still win 65%+ of the time and you still complain about a solo que?

Yep, that’s why I rarely ventured into solo queue too, and I’m sure it’s the same people who are whining wanting solo queue back who were the biggest source of toxic waste back in those days. If they insist they’ll stop playing, good riddance. Nobody needs their negativity. It was a boon that they were segregated out into solo queue when it was created, it made team queue a lot friendlier, but being rid of them for good would be even better.

Israel.7056:

truthishly.9513:

Posts like this just reek of such ridiculous entitlement it’s surprising that the devs even bother responding on the forum. You sound like you literally have your fingers in your ears and you’re screaming at the top of your lungs to prevent anything that isn’t about you getting your way from reaching your brain.

Ad hom.

Sorry, but when you’re presented with your match history and shown that you’ve had a statistically insignificant number of bad matchups, only to dismiss it with “nobody cares about the stats”, then you’re signalling that you’re not actually interested in constructive debate, and you’ve earned ad hominem attacks.

Gabriell.4856:

Justin ODell.9517:

Gabriell.4856:

2015-01-30 19:08:08.000 Ranked 1112 5 10.7800 Defeat 132 500 -226.0 8.0

10.7% chance of winning…wtf? Why even start the match.

These sort of matches happen most often due to fail-safes we have in place to keep queue times low. I would guess the premade team had to wait around 8 minutes to get that match, and they didn’t like it either.

I’ll continue to work to make these sort of matches happen less often. I don’t think we’ll find a comprehensive fix without sacrificing queue times though.

Anyway to allow us to know our chance of winning before the match starts?

I would like to quit while I’m behind and get it over with as quickly as possible.

just go back to pve dude. thats a kitten poor attitude to have. youre not going to get better unless you play against better people. “shake it off”

manveruppd.7601:

Sorry, but when you’re presented with your match history and shown that you’ve had a statistically insignificant number of bad matchups, only to dismiss it with “nobody cares about the stats”, then you’re signalling that you’re not actually interested in constructive debate, and you’ve earned ad hominem attacks.

Ok so two things:

1. That never happened. I was never shown my match history and I’ve not said once “nobody cares about the stats” so you appear to be confused.

2. Statistical significance is a matter of opinion. Just because something isn’t significant to you doesn’t mean it’s objectively insignificant.

My bad, it was Sweetbread who said that.

Shadelang.3012:

@ Israel Hmm. I will admit that I hadn’t realised how judgemental the last half of that post sounded. For that I will apologize. It wasn’t my intention upon writing it but then…hindsight is 20/20 after all.

So your right. I did state far more that just my opinion in that post. Again. my fault there. It was not my intention.

I accept your apology.

Shadelang.3012:

However you have very much implied that things should be the way YOU feel they should. For little more reason than that you personally disagree with the base concept of premade vs solo quers. I will say that you have the right to that opinion.

But I wish you would back it up with more than moral based reasons and more opinions.

Well yes I think it’s wrong to match premades against solos on principle. There isn’t any amount of data that could prove or disprove that value statement. It would be like me trying to prove that swiss cheese is objectively more delicious than cheddar or something, it’s just a matter of personal preference. So you either agree with me that it’s wrong on principle or you don’t.

So what’s the alternative you complainers want? Matchmaking just keeps looking for a match until the right conditions are met even if that would take 10-30 minutes or even longer?

Shinzan.2908:

So what’s the alternative you complainers want? Matchmaking just keeps looking for a match until the right conditions are met even if that would take 10-30 minutes or even longer?

Premade vs solo is never a good condition.

Justin ODell.9517:

Cindas.6149:

Second, if “being matched against a premade when you’re solo is rare”, why have it be a possibility at all? If it is rare, what does it give to the players and the system? It appears it is only reducing the queue time for “high skilled players”.

we inflate party MMR by the number of members to compensate for the advantage.

Somehow I must have missed this announcement but it’s great that you made this change. For about 4-5 days now I have been seeing a higher quality average match.

Justin ODell.9517:

There is still that occasional match though that gets totally ruined by the fail-safes. I’m not certain waiting longer for those players would improve quality for them or just reduce the number of games they get to play.

Honestly, the problem here is two-fold:

• I’d rather wait longer and have fewer games overall if those games are of higher quality. If I get stomped 100-500 I stop playing PvP that day because it makes me angry, as I’m sure it does for a large number of others.
• I’d be totally okay with really long queue times if we could bloody leave HotM or have something to do. An 8 minute queue is only bad because we’re forced to stay in HotM and there is nothing to bloody do in there. There aren’t even crafting tables or a Mystic Forge, let alone a jump puzzle or anything to keep us occupied.

Those two things when taken together should be fixed together.