Guild Wars 2

Bitty.1409:

Can y’all shut the hell up about him doing this to favor his team. God you guys are so kittening annoying, just disagree with his opinion don’t attach a motive to it.

You missed the whole point of that argument lol. Someone said how dare someone disagree with Phataram, so we pointed out that he’s just another player with biases and agendas, and not to overvalue his opinion just because he’s a good player. It started out as a disagreement. Lol

Engineer:
Healing turret – Cast time increased to 1s
Gear Shield – Block duration increased to 4. CD increased to 25s (maybe 30).
Slick shoes – Oil slick duration decreased to 2s (so you can’t ring somebody and wreck them)
Overcharge shot – 1/2s cast time. Self knockback reduced to 200.

Warrior:
Charge – CD increased to 20s, Radius decreased to 480.
Call to arms – Does not give weakness anymore.

Thief:
Shadowshot – Initial shot now does 10 damage, causing revealed (so its not an instant teleport).

Elementalist:
Burning speed – This is no longer an evade
Frozen Burst – This is no longer a blast finisher
Dragon’s Tooth – Cast time reduced to 0.5s, same actual delay on drop.
Phoenix – Cast time increased to 0.5s.
Flamestrike – Cast time decreased to 0.75s, burning reduced to 1s.
Stone Shards – Cast time reduced to 1s (removed windup).
Air 1-pt minor: Gain +50% endurance regeneration while attuned to air
Cleansing wave (evasive arcana)- Heal reduced 20%. Increased scaling with healing power (maybe) slightly.

Mesmer:
Null field – Applies Revealed for 2s.

Guardian:
Monk’s Focus – Healing reduced 20%. Increased healing with healing power.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Mesmer – Create more viability for amulets outside of Berserker

Slight reduce cooldown ,recharge rate and cast time on Mesmers skills so it has a chance against thieves.

I’ll change one utility on every class a little bit.

Necromancer:
Spectral wurm: now instant cast (double tap for instant port), or now 5-10k range.

Elementalist:
Arcane Shield: reduced to 60 second cooldown.

Engineer:
Slick Shoes: won’t knockdown if you aren’t moving.

Mesmer:
Signet of Midnight: passive now gives 25% movement speed

Guardian:
Sanctuary: Reduced cooldown to 90 seconds.

Ranger:
Storm Spirit: Grant allies a chance to apply blind when attacking.

Thief:
Roll for initiative: reduced cooldown to 50 seconds.

Warrior:
Stomp: applies 3 stacks of stability for 5 seconds.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Warrior – Balanced Stance & Dolyak Signet both set to 10s base duration and 10 stacks

errrrr no.
both balanced stance and dolyak signet are fine as they both are now.
there is no need to change them any further.

BlackBeard.2873:

Warrior:
Charge – CD increased to 20s, Radius decreased to 480.
Call to arms – Does not give weakness anymore.

this is ridiculous.
again, both these skills are well balanced and does not need further adjustments.

conditions are very easily re-applied, way faster than these 2 skills can remove and convert. also, weakness granted by call to arms has a short duration, and can be very easily removed by condition removal skills as well.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Warrior – Balanced Stance & Dolyak Signet both set to 10s base duration and 10 stacks

errrrr no.
both balanced stance and dolyak signet are fine as they both are now.
there is no need to change them any further.

Heavies should be heavies for a reason!
Maybe it would be a good idea for a warrior to have more stability than an ele!

Engineer:

Updated grand master trait where “Turrets apply boons” to “Turrets orbit the sky and gain solar panels to increase their self regeneration.”

Updated animation of placing turrets to launching satellites into the sky when using the grand master Satellite trait.

manysongsgw.2931:

Engineer:

Updated grand master trait where “Turrets apply boons” to “Turrets orbit the sky and gain solar panels to increase their self regeneration.”

Updated animation of placing turrets to launching satellites into the sky when using the grand master Satellite trait.

This sounds scary as kitten.

Some suggestions I’m on board with (+ some of my own):

Slick Shoes: Limiting the number of times the target is knocked down to 1 per puddle. Even as someone who plays Engi a lot, I feel cheap when I use this skill.

Teef: Having your attack block/evades/etc when stealthed applies reveled. Even though I’m getting rather good at beating D/P Teefs, the lack of punishment for missing your backstab is ridiculous. Why do you get to repeatedly attempt to attack me when I already evaded your initial attack. It also allows them to stealth again with no repercussions for their failure.

I’ve almost deleted my teef multiple times because of how annoyingly forgiving it can be. Low health doesn’t matter when you’re given the tools to escape most any situation and you aren’t heavily punished for missing.

Warrior: Move Physical Training to Adept, make Mending a physical skill. I got a lot of things I would like to see on War but these two changes are fairly easy and would open up a ton of variety.

Without going into too much depth I think a couple changes that could be hotfixed into the game are:

Mesmer:
- Make deceptive evasion a minor trait (either 1 or 3)
Reason: This trait shouldn’t be too hard to access, since its such a crucial part of many mesmer builds, and also gives mesmers an extra traitpoint that opens up much more build diversity and can help them coming into “the meta”.
- Halting needs a tiny tiny nerf
Reason: 3k damage on interrupts is a little bit too strong and the amount of interrupts a mesmer can stack is a ridiculous
- Put a red bar under the portal skill if portal is out of range.
Reason: almost every skill that I know of has this feature, and it would allow mesmers to consistently use portal to its maximum potential

Engineer:
- Increase gear shield cooldown to 25seconds, and make it 20s traited instead of 16
Reason: 3second block on 16second cooldown? kinda op.
- Slickshoes should have diminishing returns on knockdown, especially with new stability stacks. Have you seen quickly 3 stacks of stab is eaten by slickshoes? you sometimes cant even get out of it even with your stability
- Overcharge Shot needs a small cast time + animation, similar to pindown and flamethrower 3
- Delete the 33% damage reduction trait to turrets.
Reason: haha -_-

Guardian:
Obviously noones going to agree with this since guardians are actually doing semi-well but,
- Virtue f3 reduced from 69s to 60s
Reason: IF guardians invest 6 in the virtue traitline, the cooldown goes from 90 to 69, 1/4. I think thats a little bit too high for having invested fully into the trait line
- Increased Velocity for scepter auto by “x %” let anet figure it out. People can outrun the orbs ;-; (same problem as old necro staff auto). Maybe in return reduce damage of scepter auto for more reliable hitting?
- Make Merciful Intervention ground targeted without allies near.
Reason: Gives guardians a disengage which they lack. If guardians choose the disengage, they will be forced to give up one of their important medis. I think most guardians would give up judges for merciful.

Thief:
- Reduce poison duration on Serpent’s Touch
Reason: 11s poison on a 21s skill, and its a 1 point minor in deadly arts. Every thief build has it because its so easy to access. Way too strong for a 1 point minor.

Warrior:
Agree with phanta

Necro:
- Chill of death needs to be nerfed in some bloody way. It is unavoidable and the only way to counter it is to not get below 50% health. It removes 3 boons, and does more damage the more boons you have, and chills you. owie.
- Necro downstate needs to be toned down a little, it was strong even before the traits were fixed, now its a little ridiculous.

Ele/Ranger:
Not much to comment on, I think they’re fine for the most part. Maybe remove the blast from frozen burst to weaken them in 1v1, 2v2’s which they’re super strong at.

General Changes:
- Tone done ferocity on celestial. Its way too high, it only has 13 less ferocity points compared to berserker.
- Make downstate bodies reveal if knocked out of refuge (PLS)
- Implement Pve’s death penalty in pvp.
- MAKE SIGIL OF BLOOD SHOW IN COMBAT LOG
- Maybe make it so classes are unable to access toolbelt skills in mistform from vampirism Runes. I understand that the mistform is basically copy pasted from elementalists, and they can access attunements in mistform, but the feature gets a little too strong when other classes use it (engi s stealth, and necro accessing deathshroud)
- Nerf duration of poison from sigil of doom. 66%uptime from 1 sigil is insane.
- No longer allow air and fire sigils to stack. Force classes to choose whether or not they want air or fire on their weapon set.

Sunfish.5970:

Without going into too much depth

Zerothousand.3089:

Sunfish.5970:

Without going into too much depth

oops

I agree with everything that Phantaram said. Some other things:

Engi:

• Reduce gear shield duration to 2 seconds.
• 50% hp nerf to turrets.

Mesmer:

• Make Ether Feast remove 1 condition for each active illusions (max 3)

Thief:

• Sleight of Hand should no longer reduce the CD on steal.

I know it breaks the concept of celestial, but the defensive stats should be nerfed by 20-30%.

Advocating small changes after a year with no changes to pvp skills (more or less) seems a bit off to me sorry OP.

Small changes = only worth it if often.

Sigil of Doom – Reduce poison to 4 seconds.
Why ArenaNet didn’t nerf this is beyond me. Out of all the Sigils, this one is the most annoying and the most used and every class uses it.

Gear Shield – Cannot move while casting.
Sorry spamgineers, you are not getting a super version of Warriors shield block. You can reposition and you can delay for cooldowns, you cannot have both.

Engineers – Make viable without Tool Kit and Grenades.

Ride the Lightning – Just change it back to 20 or 25 seconds already.
No one is using the skill offensively unless it’s to quickly hit a low target 3 feet away. By nerfing it’s recharge ArenaNet, did you EXACTLY what you tried to avoid, a year later, nothing has changed.

Magnetic Grasp – Fix the kitten bug.
It misses, it misses a lot. It misses for no reason.

Necromancers – Help them get an identity before the Revenant replaces them entirely.

Thief:
Serpent’s Touch – Reduce poison duration to 6 seconds base
Agreed.

Warrior:
Call to Arms – Vigor Duration reduced to 6 seconds base
Charge – Cooldown increased to 20 seconds base
Disagree
The AoE weakness in Call to Arms is a problem, ArenaNet just doesn’t understand how good Weakness is. I don’t mind my enemies dodging more, I put my foot down when my team is dealing 50% less damage and cannot dodge as much.
As for Charge, the reason why it’s a problem is Quick Breathing. I’d get rid of that trait and just have Charge convert a condition into a boon in addition to its effects.

Guardian:
Ring of Warding – 50 second cooldown
Reason: at 40 seconds the cooldown too conveniently aligns with judges intervention. Not to mention it’s just an extremely powerful ability.
Disagree.
I think it fits perfectly and with skilled timing it makes a great ability, rewarding if you hit, punishing if you don’t, it doesn’t need to be more punishing. However, being CC’d if you teleport out is not okay, that needs to change.

Disagree with Phantaram’s list. Why change stuff that’s only recently become popular despite being in the game for years? Instead, address stuff that’s continually been in the top builds.

The way I look at it, the “meta” tier builds are a tad too good and need to be toned down, rather than many other builds brought up. I focused on those and proc damage, especially the unavoidable kind.

General
- Sigil of Air, Fire, Blood, Leeching all reduced in damage by about 15%.
- Sigil of Geomancy reduced to 2 stacks at 8sec duration.
- Sigil of Doom poison application reduced to 3sec duration.
Damage and other effects should come from the profession and build choices, not from sigil procs, which are mostly unavoidable or difficult to predict.
- Sigil of Energy changed to grant Vigor for 8sec.
The instant dodge is too good. Intent is that it helps builds with limited vigor more than builds with a lot of vigor already.
- Sigil of Intelligence changed to grant Fury for 3sec on weapon swap.
Too hard to balance the guaranteed crit across all builds; effects like this should be traits or skills. Some Fury is beneficial, but not overwhelming.
- Rune of Nightmare disabled in PvP
The semi-random CC effect isn’t healthy for skill-based gameplay.
- Amulet stats split across multiple items.
Better stat customization is needed. Current selections are either too squishy or have too much defense and not enough offense for many builds.

Elementalist
- Elemental Attunement protection duration reduced to 3sec.
- Drake’s Breath animation now shows the correct range.
I don’t play ele, so can’t say much more. The d/d cele build is strong in 1v1 sustain, but similar variations aren’t too powerful. Not sure which knob to turn.
- Phoenix no longer unblockable
High damage attacks should be blockable.

Engineer
- Incendiary Powder reduced to 1sec of burning (10sec ICD) on rifle and pistol crits. Swapped to Adept tier.
Incendiary Powder is a huge amount of damage from engineers in sustained fights and it’s completely unavoidable. Overall damage was reduced. Proc change prevents grenade kit from easily applying it at long range.
- Accelerant-Packed Turrets swapped to Master tier.
Hinders a turret engi’s ability to control a node. Taking this trait now means giving up either increased turret damage or boons on turrets.
- Transmute no longer affects CC and movement condis. ICD reduced to 10 seconds.
Engis randomly avoiding CC is bad for skill-based gameplay.
- Slick Shoes duration reduced to 2sec. Puddle duration unchanged.
The constant knock down is from being ringed with puddles, not being hit by a single puddle multiple times.

Guardian
- Selfless Daring 50% PvP-only nerf removed.
Reverts an early over-reaction to bunker guardian. Sigil of Energy change also factors in.
- Glacial Heart re-worked. 100% proc on Mighty Blow. 1.5sec chill but significantly reduced damage.
- Smite Condition damage with conditions reduced to be +50% of the damage without conditions.
- Monk’s Focus reduced to 1300 (0.5) heal and grants regeneration for 2sec.
Medi guard instant damage is extremely high, so reduce it somewhat, but increase utility as a trade-off. Total healing with full damage stats reduced slightly and changed to be less up-front.

Mesmer
- Halting Strike unable to crit
Cap burst potential of stack-able instant damage.
- Mirror Blade no longer unblockable
High damage attacks should be blockable.

Necromancer
- Mark of Blood +1 bleed stacks in PvP
- Grasping Dead +1 bleed stacks in PvP
Undo some of the nerfs from the Dhuumfire era. With sigils nerfs, this will keep necro bleeds at roughly the same power.
- Chill of Death capped at 2 boons and damage reduced by 50%
The proc is far too strong currently.

Ranger
- Rapid Fire duration and number of shots reduced slightly.
One dodge should avoid a larger chunk of the damage
- Point Blank Shot base ranged reduced to 600
- Eagle Eye grants a 25% increase to range instead of a fixed 300 units.
A 1200 range knockback, which is nearly unavoidable, is too good with such strong follow-up. Effective range of this skill reduced while not affecting the rest of longbow.

Thief
- Infiltrator’s Arrow increased in cost or lowered in range slightly.
Thief mobility for back-caps is a little too good, to the point where no one can compete.
Thief burst will be toned down by sigil changes and allowing formerly full glass professions to have some defense through amulet changes.

Warrior
- Combustive Shot now pulses at 2sec intervals with 2sec of burning applied each tick.
The condi damage and area control granted by this skill is too strong repeated combos are too easy.
- Cleansing Ire no longer grants adrenaline when hit.
Kiting or keeping a warrior locked down can now reduce their damage slightly and condition clear.

Is it the same phantaram who was claiming ele was op before Wts beijing ?
What did change until now ?
I see 90% changes proposal to enhance life of ele.
This thread really looks like a: anet nerf all classes…mine is fine.
With 1 to 2 ele per team in tournaments there is currently more need of changes to reduce the ele supremacy rather to make them even more op.
Controls and aoe cleanse would help to enhance teamplay…this would be good. 50 sec cooldown on a weapon skill..seriously… with all the spammy prof (thief..engi…ele) this is not fair.

I would make three changes only:

Celestial amulet: removed from PvP
IP engi trait: changed to grandmaster
Sigil of doom: removed from PvP

All I know is that as a Mesmer player I’m frustrated by our lack of versatility as a class. It’s shatter or go home.

Don’t get me wrong, I know that there are other alternatives… nevertheless, they will never see the light of day in top tier brackets.

I can’t think of any real solutions off the top of my head, but there needs to be alternatives for Mesmer outside of a glassy, bursty build.

And Portal shouldn’t be a MUST have as it currently is.

Phantaram.4816:

Warrior:
Call to Arms – Vigor Duration reduced to 6 seconds base
Charge – Cooldown increased to 20 seconds base
Reason: This ability currently cures cripple, immobilize, chill + converts 1 more condition to a boon and removes 1 more condition on a 12s cooldown in a 1200 aoe, just absolutely crazy powerful.

Warrior Warhorn dont need nerfs. Warrior have little acess to vigor and that acess is not viable in any trait line. Also warhorn is not a ofensive weapon so its better to be good at something and for all of those things to happen warhorn needs to be traited in a pure defensive trait line.

If you think warhorn does too much then what you think about thief steal?

silentnight warrior.2714:

Phantaram.4816:

Warrior:
Call to Arms – Vigor Duration reduced to 6 seconds base
Charge – Cooldown increased to 20 seconds base
Reason: This ability currently cures cripple, immobilize, chill + converts 1 more condition to a boon and removes 1 more condition on a 12s cooldown in a 1200 aoe, just absolutely crazy powerful.

Warrior Warhorn dont need nerfs. Warrior have little acess to vigor and that acess is not viable in any trait line. Also warhorn is not a ofensive weapon so its better to be good at something and for all of those things to happen warhorn needs to be traited in a pure defensive trait line.

If you think warhorn does too much then what you think about thief steal?

It’s not really about looking at individual skills

Phanta’s thinking is more so about looking at the landscape of 4v4 / 5v5 teamfights in PvP, where condition removal is so pervasive with Guardian’s double Virtue of Resolve, Shouts/Warhorns, and/or Cleansing Water with an occasional Healing Turret is nullifying condi reliant builds completely.

Chaith.8256:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Phantaram.4816:

Warrior:
Call to Arms – Vigor Duration reduced to 6 seconds base
Charge – Cooldown increased to 20 seconds base
Reason: This ability currently cures cripple, immobilize, chill + converts 1 more condition to a boon and removes 1 more condition on a 12s cooldown in a 1200 aoe, just absolutely crazy powerful.

Warrior Warhorn dont need nerfs. Warrior have little acess to vigor and that acess is not viable in any trait line. Also warhorn is not a ofensive weapon so its better to be good at something and for all of those things to happen warhorn needs to be traited in a pure defensive trait line.

If you think warhorn does too much then what you think about thief steal?

It’s not really about looking at individual skills

Phanta’s thinking is more so about looking at the landscape of 4v4 / 5v5 teamfights in PvP, where condition removal is so pervasive with Guardian’s double Virtue of Resolve, Shouts/Warhorns, and/or Cleansing Water with an occasional Healing Turret is nullifying condi reliant builds completely.

nerf celestial problem solved

Small changes won’t fix anything. Game is horribly broken and can safely be renamed to Engi’s vs Ranger vs targets (Remaining classes) Rangers win of course.

What class do i play ALL OF THEM.

Safely can say that ranger is far too powerful and so are turret engineers in pvp.

If you pvp at all I’m sure you have been on teams with 5 rangers…vs 5 rangers and somebody who didn’t get the memo.

The turret engineer is a special situation in a point holding scenario.

The fixes are too complicated to even suggest but I can sure point out the problems.

1.) Channeled skills following stealth.
2.) Sic em – 1 skill to nuke so many things and is really a thief killer.
3.) WAY too much damage on a ranged skill #2 longbow.
4.) Way OP root people for multiple seconds skills rangers have.
5.) That circle that entraps people with NO counter.
6.) Too many immunities to damage that allow motion.
7.) The sprinting ability of heavy armor wearing classes.
8.) There being no damage reduction of heavy armor wearing…wear heavy armor and run fast and do huge damage….why doesn’t everyone wear it…oh yeah …nm
9.) AOE stuns etc too large.
10.) Visible round smoke fields that huge AOE’s crush.

Horrible chat logging of skill usage so it becomes very obvious when cheaters are cheating. Just add milliseconds!

Nova Stiker.8396:

Snip

I strongly agree with most of what Nova said. However:

“Gear Shield – Cannot move while casting.” -Disagree. Gear Shield is incredibly strong to make up for Engi’s terrible condi cleanse. If Gear Shield takes a nerf more condi cleanse will need to be baked into an engineer’s kit, but this weakness to conditions helps make the professions diverse and interesting.

“Necromancers – Help them get an identity before the Revenant replaces them entirely.” -Disagree. Power necros and terrormancers seems to have solid identity to me. Not sure where you are going with this.

“Engineers – Make viable without Tool Kit and Grenades.” Emphasizing this. I dislike turrets so I’m ignoring that build for the moment. The tool kit and grenade kit totally overshadow bomb kit, flamethrower, and many of the elixirs. I think a balance pass is needed to try and bring the strength of utility skills in line with one another.

Skeletor.9360:

Small changes won’t fix anything. Game is horribly broken and can safely be renamed to Engi’s vs Ranger vs targets (Remaining classes) Rangers win of course.

What class do i play ALL OF THEM.

Safely can say that ranger is far too powerful and so are turret engineers in pvp.

If you pvp at all I’m sure you have been on teams with 5 rangers…vs 5 rangers and somebody who didn’t get the memo.

The turret engineer is a special situation in a point holding scenario.

The fixes are too complicated to even suggest but I can sure point out the problems.

1.) Channeled skills following stealth.
2.) Sic em – 1 skill to nuke so many things and is really a thief killer.
3.) WAY too much damage on a ranged skill #2 longbow.
4.) Way OP root people for multiple seconds skills rangers have.
5.) That circle that entraps people with NO counter.
6.) Too many immunities to damage that allow motion.
7.) The sprinting ability of heavy armor wearing classes.
8.) There being no damage reduction of heavy armor wearing…wear heavy armor and run fast and do huge damage….why doesn’t everyone wear it…oh yeah …nm
9.) AOE stuns etc too large.
10.) Visible round smoke fields that huge AOE’s crush.

Horrible chat logging of skill usage so it becomes very obvious when cheaters are cheating. Just add milliseconds!

Again, the ranger hate right here. How many rangers do you see in HIgher tiered pvp? 1?

REALTALK, rangers only kill noob players or they caught you off guard or, you don’t have anything to counter them (refelcts, blocks, interrupts)

How do rangers get all this unwarranted hate?

So thieves get counterplay and you wanna nerf sic em? What?! Then pls fix zerk mes vs tihef matchup first plox!

Chaith.8256:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Phantaram.4816:

Warrior:
Call to Arms – Vigor Duration reduced to 6 seconds base
Charge – Cooldown increased to 20 seconds base
Reason: This ability currently cures cripple, immobilize, chill + converts 1 more condition to a boon and removes 1 more condition on a 12s cooldown in a 1200 aoe, just absolutely crazy powerful.

Warrior Warhorn dont need nerfs. Warrior have little acess to vigor and that acess is not viable in any trait line. Also warhorn is not a ofensive weapon so its better to be good at something and for all of those things to happen warhorn needs to be traited in a pure defensive trait line.

If you think warhorn does too much then what you think about thief steal?

It’s not really about looking at individual skills

Phanta’s thinking is more so about looking at the landscape of 4v4 / 5v5 teamfights in PvP, where condition removal is so pervasive with Guardian’s double Virtue of Resolve, Shouts/Warhorns, and/or Cleansing Water with an occasional Healing Turret is nullifying condi reliant builds completely.

Actually he does look at individual skills:
“Reason: This ability currently cures cripple, immobilize, chill + converts 1 more condition to a boon and removes 1 more condition on a 12s cooldown in a 1200 aoe, just absolutely crazy powerful.”

The skill by itself does very little without the help of all the other skills and traits warrior takes, but that come with a huge sacrifice in dps. Btw its a good thing to have a suport build like warrior have, other wise it would be replaced by another ele perhaps.
When you have three classes givin you cleanses, its obvious it will be a hard time to conditions teams. But this is not only warrior fault, there should be adjustments to all other classes that “make this issue”.

There are many things when combined with others classes are very OP ( like thief/mesmer duo burst from stealth for one example).

i think rather than trying to kill metalbuilds anet should focus on bringing other builds on par. some small tweaks here and there are fine but comments like “delete this and delete that” are not constructive at all, don’t forget, just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean that other people feel the same.

builds are fine as long as they don’t destroy the fun for other players while being effective and easy to play even on a high level (i’m looking at you, turrets).

while the current celestial builds are not as punishing as berserker builds they are still not easy to play on a high level. even if you manage to survive in a 1v1 as an elementalist you’re not fulfilling your role as a team supporter in a teamfight. same goes for warrior.

people tend to forget that pvp is not all about 1v1.

Jekkt.6045:

i think rather than trying to kill metalbuilds anet should focus on bringing other builds on par.

But that’s how you create powercreep. If something is stronger than it should be, the solution isn’t to buff everything else in the game to be just as broken.

i don’t feel like what we have atm is broken op, in fact it’s quite balanced. just certain classes are not on par yet and could need some love.

both warrior’s warhorn skills and quick breathing trait are well balanced, has been working as intended since beta weekends.

there is no need to make any adjustments to them.

cleansing ire is also working as intended, already balanced, there is no need to remove “embrace the pain” from cleansing ire.

To all drama queens in this thread I’d like to remember something : The OP has suggested more nerfs to ele than anybody else on this forum over a 2 years span

To go and call biased the OP…it’s possibly the most idiotic thing I ever seen on these forums

Of all TOP players is (unfortunately) the only one who give suggestions that mostly “damage” his own profession in favour of all other ones.

@Phantaram is the one who proposed nerfs on : Drake’s breath, lightning whip, triple cantrip, arcane skills, FGS ect etc.

I’m not here to defend the OP or anything, I’m simply irked at some “comments”, childish, derogatory comments from hypocritical people, who on the contrary of what they say, they’ll be the first to post “balanced” suggestions that do nothing but destroy/delete every possible counter to their own profession.

-edit: I won’t say or suggest anything …but want to remember to all med guardians -" don’t talk pls, you have no room to talk…on anything"

I am not sure this qualifies as a SMALL change but generally: EVERY CLASS SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST ONE FULLY VIABLE META BUILD. The most objective measure I know of is the metabattle website, according to which mesmers, rangers and necros currently do not have a (fully viable) meta build. These classes are indeed the least represented ones in tournaments.

Some particular changes I would like to see (arguably making ALL of these may be too much):

1. Shave of the stats of celesetial by say 40-50 points. I know this is a never ending discussion. My point of view: this amulet is the reason why nothing outside of celestial or berserker is meta, severly limiting both build and role diversity.

2. Reign in the AOE condi removal and boom spam. The three classes without meta builds are arguably at the same time the ones having fewer access to these things (at least on average).

3. For mesmers: add some sustain + help them against thieves. I am thinking: let halting strike no longer crit, but add a healing portion (like they did with mug). Also, give them access to the revealed debuff (say phantasmal mage or phantasmal disenchanter should be able to hit in stealth and apply the debuff).

4. For necros: make dark path an instacast shadowstep (maybe ground targeted) and increase the range on fleshworm (to say 10k like on shadow trap). Give necros access to AOE boon corruption (say through an on interrupt trait) and more sustain on Staff / scepter (say add a healing portion to feast of corruption+LF generation on marks by default). Some of the many nerfs made after Dhuumfire should be taken back.

5. For rangers: Don’t know enough to suggest anything particular. Generally, I think that longbow damage should be reduced somewhat, while giving them more sustain and group utility.

My suggestions deal mainly with mesmer. This is the only class that has had one barely viable build for the entirety of the game.

So here goes:

• Sword- revert the blurred frenzy double whammy, either make it an invuln or reduce the CD

• Deceptive evasion is now a master minor trait. People speak of build diversity all over the bleedin place yet mesmers have had absolutely squat since the launch. Nothing but nerf after nerf. And only one flipping reversion of a nerf and even then it wound up being a net nerf.

• Ether Feast- This skill heals for more for each clones and removes a condition for each clone. And before you get all up in arms about this doing too much for one healing skill, consider this:
  
  Thieves have two heals that do three things. HiS removes all damaging conditions, grants stealth, and heals. Withdraw evades, removes movement impairing conditions, and heals. Since mesmers and thieves compete for the same roles, mesmer sustain needs to be improved to be on par with thieves.

• Lastly these mesmer skills become unblockable- Mantra of distraction active, diversion, and into the void. I find it absolutely ridiculous that the class which should be the master of interrupts/control has absolutely no unblockable interrupts, when several other classes have some pretty good ones.

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

Going to have to disagree with this one. Judges and ring has always been a thing, and It’s always been strong, but only because of the meta with lack of stability. Increasing the cool down when this skill is already at 40 seconds will just hinder it. The cooldown is fine, and I know it aligns well with judges intervention c/d, but the ring is also used defensively to peel for team mates or for yourself. So you a choice of defensive or offensive ring. 50 seconds would be way too long.

Definitely agree with this.

I love Phanta but watching him play medi hammer, especially with the Abjured, the amount of damage pressure he gets put on him is small. At next WTS will see how vulnerable DPS guard can be if you’re just seeing JI and ROW as spiking every 40 seconds.

Tissitra.4153:

I am not sure this qualifies as a SMALL change but generally: EVERY CLASS SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST ONE FULLY VIABLE META BUILD. The most objective measure I know of is the metabattle website, according to which mesmers, rangers and necros currently do not have a (fully viable) meta build. These classes are indeed the least represented ones in tournaments.

I believe that you have misinterpreted the metabattle website and how it ranks “Fully viable meta builds.” You notice at the top of the list of builds is the highest category labeled “META” where you see 5 builds. What needs to be noted is that those 5 builds are the exact same 5 builds ORNG used to win WTS in Boston, so I am a bit suspicious, that that level is simply reserved for the builds that won the last major tournament.

To confirm my suspicion, you click on each build to see what their rating is. They don’t the rating is simply given as "This build also received an overall rating of 4.75 or higher out of 5.00 and thus qualified for the highest category of working builds: Great. " This label is used for both builds in the “META” category, and the “GREAT” category solidifying my conclusion is that the only difference between “META” and “GREAT” is that the all the “META” builds won in Boston.

If this is true, then it is simply not possible for every class to have a working “META” build as there are only 5 team slots and 8 classes to choose from. That means the goal to shoot for would be every class has at least one “GREAT” which still means top tier. Right now, Mesmers have 2 (albeit very similar), ranger has 3 fairly different ones, and necro technically only has the terrormancer but I think that is just a case of lack of updating as powernecro has become more popular as of late at all levels.

Link for reference: http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki

Sigils:
- Sigil of Energy: Gain vigor for 10 seconds. Prevents stacking with vigor, reducing the "acrobaticness" of some classes that shouldn’t operate that way.
- Sigil of Intelligence: Each charge adds 20-30% critical chance to your existing critical chance for that hit. (Alternative: see Celestial Amulet)

Amulets:
- Celestial Amulet: Reduce ferocity. (Alternative: see Sigil of Intelligence)

Other:
- Condition removal: Last on first off is dumb. It should be intelligent, and cleanse whatever is dealing the most damage to you first.

Guardian:
- Add a cast time to smite condition.
- Despite being the class intended to be the best at team support, it has been overlooked in that there is no mid-way build. It’s either damage, or support. It’s extremely restrictive of players who main or would like to again main guardian. Ideas to address this? The Communal Defenses, Shattered Aegis and Pure of Heart traits look like they could be something. Shattered Aegis would need a significant damage buff though, and the Aegis from Communal Defenses would need a longer duration and or a side-effect if it is not removed, like gaining retaliation.

Elementalist:
- Make Ride the Lightning get a 50% cool down reduction when it is blocked or misses, as originally stated before it was changed.

Warrior:
- Rush should have the same treatment as Ride the Lightning.
- Berserker stance is not only protection against damaging conditions, but it is immunity to cc effects achieved through conditions (movement impairment), blind, and vulnerability which is direct-damage related. It should have charges like the new stability mechanic. It should have counter play for builds that rely heavily on survival through conditions or entirely on conditions for dealing damage, not counting "just wait it out."

Enginner:
- The turret build shouldn’t exist. Make the utility turrets much easier to kill. It doesn’t matter whether some players find it easy to deal with, the fact remains it is reward without risk, promotes passive unskillful play, and foremost, the community hates it.
- Overcharged shot should have a cast time or longer cool down. It cleanses immobilise, deals good damage, knocks back both upright and downed players and is on a low cool down. It should not be instant cast with a short cool down; so add a cast time or increase the cool down. It also sometimes hits the wrong target, even when you seem to be positioned correctly in front of you who want to hit.

Necromancer:
- Fix the absurdly overpowered downed state.
- Increase the cast time of downed #2 skill, or make it AoE.
- Increase the duration of the spectral effect of Spectral Walk.
- Reduce the cast time on Summon Flesh Wurm.

Ranger:
- Cannot swap pets while downed. Would it be fair for a necro to enter deathshroud while downed and get back up until it runs out? Or a fresh air ele to swap to air and burst you while you stomp? Or an engineer allowed to use his toolbelt skills while downed?
- Reduce the damage reduction of bark skin.

Tissitra.4153:

5. For rangers: Don’t know enough to suggest anything particular. Generally, I think that longbow damage should be reduced somewhat, while giving them more sustain and group utility.

Rework Beastmastery traits, rework some of the shouts to something more party oriented (replace Search and Rescue completely, we don’t need two revival skills), add the improved AI stuff they’re working on to our pets aswell. Add some utility to trap builds. Storm Spirit and Water spirit are both just.. bad – at least keep them in line with the other spirits.

Any shave offs to LB would mean they have to take a look at the current trait investement power rangers have to do and their severe lack of being anything else than a one trick pony.

Impact.2780:

Ranger:
- Cannot swap pets while downed. Would it be fair for a necro to enter deathshroud while downed and get back up until it runs out? Or a fresh air ele to swap to air and burst you while you stomp? Or an engineer allowed to use his toolbelt skills while downed?
- Reduce the damage reduction of bark skin.

Except none of these mechanics compare to the pet mechanic, which simply offers a limited set of tools to control an AI pet that IS A PART OF ONE OF THE DOWN STATE SKILLS.

If anything, rangers need MORE control of their pets.

Exedore.6320:

snip

I thought these suggestions were brilliant. Good post.

Roe.3679:

Exedore.6320:

snip

I thought these suggestions were brilliant. Good post.

elemental attunement changes suggested by him are horrible, would destroy most of the non d/d builds as they heavily rely on that protection.

i dont wanna comment other stuff as i main ele and can’t really speak for other classes except if i personally feel that something is really op.

edit:

reread them and i don’t like most of them. most of them are unnecessary or a wrong approach. why does mesmer need a nerf?
doom counters celestial, that’s why it’s used, why would you reduce the duration, even if it hits squishies too but that’s just a bonus.

Tissitra.4153:

3. For mesmers: add some sustain + help them against thieves. I am thinking: let halting strike no longer crit, but add a healing portion (like they did with mug). Also, give them access to the revealed debuff (say phantasmal mage or phantasmal disenchanter should be able to hit in stealth and apply the debuff).

Dafaq you on? that suggestion is the same as being like a burst mesmer wearing a soldier ammy instead of a zerk – you might survive just a little bit longer but your not going to have the spike damage needed. longer the battle goes on the worse the outcome becomes for the mesmer.

as for the second part kitten no!!!! that would be absolultely horrible….. it took YEARS to get iwarden to even walk towards and perform an action against a VISABLE opponent. id rather not risk more mesmer bugs to add to the already astronomic mesmer bug list.

what was I drinking when it was decided hs needed a nerf? My mind is a bit fuzzy can someone remind me the number of interrupt mesmers to other cc classes such as hammer war, fear necro, etc throughout the tournies so far? mesmer interrupts are already underwhelming when other classes can perform the same actions with better survivability, the one trait that could have evened the cost of mesmer interrupts was immeditly nerfed becuase players couldn’t play with their 1 skill on 10 sec cooldown (the irony of all the times where spvp players were in the wvw forums saying all the zerglings could do was spam their 1 skill )

If your really that desperate to remove mesmers ( more than they already are) you are better off just working to get a nerf to portal.

Berserker stance doesn’t need charges. That would ruin it. Sometimes abilities need to just be able to work. What needs to happen is a CD reduction to 40 seconds but only last 5 seconds. (Goes from 13% uptime baseline to 12.5%, so not a major change there) but much less time all at once, which is key to making stances a bit more balanced. And since BS isn’t a stunbreak the change won’t cause any nasty side effects. That’s what should happen to BS IMO.

echo.2053:

Tissitra.4153:

3. For mesmers: add some sustain + help them against thieves. I am thinking: let halting strike no longer crit, but add a healing portion (like they did with mug). Also, give them access to the revealed debuff (say phantasmal mage or phantasmal disenchanter should be able to hit in stealth and apply the debuff).

Dafaq you on? that suggestion is the same as being like a burst mesmer wearing a soldier ammy instead of a zerk – you might survive just a little bit longer but your not going to have the spike damage needed. longer the battle goes on the worse the outcome becomes for the mesmer.

as for the second part kitten no!!!! that would be absolultely horrible….. it took YEARS to get iwarden to even walk towards and perform an action against a VISABLE opponent. id rather not risk more mesmer bugs to add to the already astronomic mesmer bug list.

what was I drinking when it was decided hs needed a nerf? My mind is a bit fuzzy can someone remind me the number of interrupt mesmers to other cc classes such as hammer war, fear necro, etc throughout the tournies so far? mesmer interrupts are already underwhelming when other classes can perform the same actions with better survivability, the one trait that could have evened the cost of mesmer interrupts was immeditly nerfed becuase players couldn’t play with their 1 skill on 10 sec cooldown (the irony of all the times where spvp players were in the wvw forums saying all the zerglings could do was spam their 1 skill )

If your really that desperate to remove mesmers ( more than they already are) you are better off just working to get a nerf to portal.

I play mesmer mostly and would like them to be BUFFED with the main issue to me being lack of sustain. Mug on thieves works very well in its current implementation (no more crits but healing); since halting strike has no internal cooldown giving it a healing portion might indeed amount to good sustain.

As for the revealed part: you could of course add it instead to chaos storm / null field / temporal curtain. My point was simply to suggest something that would make thieves less of a hardcounter to mesmers.

If the devs would give an increase of 5k HP to elementalist, players would be able to use every other amulet without gimping themselves in the current PvP scene. Considering the huge burst/condition pressure brought forward by sigils, runes and various buff, to go and ask people to walk with 12-13K HP is ridicolous

With a 15K HP base HP, all the QQers would finally get all the reductions on sustain,celestial..they so much cry about

ArthurDent.9538:

Tissitra.4153:

I am not sure this qualifies as a SMALL change but generally: EVERY CLASS SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST ONE FULLY VIABLE META BUILD. The most objective measure I know of is the metabattle website, according to which mesmers, rangers and necros currently do not have a (fully viable) meta build. These classes are indeed the least represented ones in tournaments.

I believe that you have misinterpreted the metabattle website and how it ranks “Fully viable meta builds.” You notice at the top of the list of builds is the highest category labeled “META” where you see 5 builds. What needs to be noted is that those 5 builds are the exact same 5 builds ORNG used to win WTS in Boston, so I am a bit suspicious, that that level is simply reserved for the builds that won the last major tournament.

To confirm my suspicion, you click on each build to see what their rating is. They don’t the rating is simply given as "This build also received an overall rating of 4.75 or higher out of 5.00 and thus qualified for the highest category of working builds: Great. " This label is used for both builds in the “META” category, and the “GREAT” category solidifying my conclusion is that the only difference between “META” and “GREAT” is that the all the “META” builds won in Boston.

If this is true, then it is simply not possible for every class to have a working “META” build as there are only 5 team slots and 8 classes to choose from. That means the goal to shoot for would be every class has at least one “GREAT” which still means top tier. Right now, Mesmers have 2 (albeit very similar), ranger has 3 fairly different ones, and necro technically only has the terrormancer but I think that is just a case of lack of updating as powernecro has become more popular as of late at all levels.

Link for reference: http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki

If you hover over the Ranked Arena category you see a textbox which explains what the categories mean btw. Meta means most common builds at the highest level of PvP – this is not restricted to 5 man teams nor a single winning team. There are 5 builds labeled as meta atm because if you watch weekly go4cups, monthly cups, or any major tournaments, around 80% of the players run one of those 5 builds. oRNG just happens to run only the most common specs.

It is possible to have more than 5 builds under meta if we start seeing more diversity in team comps.

You are right about the ratings btw – meta doesn’t mean it has a higher rating than any of the builds in Great, it just means those are a lot more common at hihg tier PvP.

But let’s stay on topic, back to balance suggestions everyone :P

I do think with the number (hard hits) possibilities in the game, they really should consider rebalancing th games HP classes around 14, 16 and 18k base and then maybe slightly reduce the sustain granted from Arcana (don’t break it but lower boon durations a bit). I think it’d do a lot of good for the game, but would need quite a bit of tweaking to go along with it. My worry is there just isn’t the available resources to make the changes and fixes the game really needs.

ronpierce.2760:

I do think with the number (hard hits) possibilities in the game, they really should consider rebalancing th games HP classes around 14, 16 and 18k base and then maybe slightly reduce the sustain granted from Arcana (don’t break it but lower boon durations a bit). I think it’d do a lot of good for the game, but would need quite a bit of tweaking to go along with it. My worry is there just isn’t the available resources to make the changes and fixes the game really needs.

A lot of yes in this. Especially since a lot of the hard hits come from short animations.
When necros are able to do 8k in a second passively to a class with only 11-14k, its an issue.

I just re-read the OP. I have 100% respect for Phantaram but I disagree with his suggestion/nerf for Guardian.

The synergy is good I agree, but Guardians have a unique gamplay where there is an ebb and flow of decent synergy followed soonafter by massive vulnerability.

Although my evidence is anecdotal as is Phanta’s, my observation puts Guardian as a 1 trick pony at best with a lot of counterplay.

Along with Mesmers and Rangers I feel like Guardian is yet another class that needs viable alternatives.

Bunker or gimmicky burst doesn’t cut it.

Tissitra.4153:

I play mesmer mostly and would like them to be BUFFED with the main issue to me being lack of sustain. Mug on thieves works very well in its current implementation (no more crits but healing); since halting strike has no internal cooldown giving it a healing portion might indeed amount to good sustain.

As for the revealed part: you could of course add it instead to chaos storm / null field / temporal curtain. My point was simply to suggest something that would make thieves less of a hardcounter to mesmers.

no the game needs to move away from this whole sustain idea, this is why were at the point where esportz is 2 tanks circling each other for 5 mins. It may have worked in gw1 but there enhantments could be shattered or the player had to cast the skill that could be interupted potientally leading to a long cooldown.

yes no cooldown on hs however the interrupts themselves are the cooldown with more punishment to the mesmer than to the opponent. mesmer interrupts need to be buffed to stand out rather then be over shadowed by other classes who can perform the same role with better survivability.

example since teefs don’t suffer as much from interrupts/chill as much as other classes and got kitten when their skills did go on a 10 sec cooldown it could be changed so that when a mesmer ( and only a mesmer) interrupts a teef the teef loses 2 init.

Rangers/engies already have a reveal debuff on a 10 sec cooldown. Its either worthless or too strong to keep it proportionate on 25+ sec cd skills.