Guild Wars 2

The Gates Assassin.9827:

I have an experiment for you guys. I suspect that a large part of what people have an issue with is the fire and air procs. Honestly, I can handle rapid fire. It’s easy to see, it’s obvious when they do it. But the auto attacks. WOW they hurt.

So try playing power ranger (6/6/2/0/0) without using fire and air. If you try it, tell me if you feel a difference. I might try that tonight and see what happens.

Fire and air procs are not exclusive to longbow rangers though. Every zerker build uses them, and they still play second fiddle to the celestial, sustain meta. Are you insinuating that fire/air sigils might be a problem?

This thread as been about the discrepancy between the advertised 1500 range of longbow Rangers and the actual range. This post seems a bit out of left field.

JohnnyZero.5619:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

I have an experiment for you guys. I suspect that a large part of what people have an issue with is the fire and air procs. Honestly, I can handle rapid fire. It’s easy to see, it’s obvious when they do it. But the auto attacks. WOW they hurt.

So try playing power ranger (6/6/2/0/0) without using fire and air. If you try it, tell me if you feel a difference. I might try that tonight and see what happens.

Fire and air procs are not exclusive to longbow rangers though. Every zerker build uses them, and they still play second fiddle to the celestial, sustain meta. Are you insinuating that fire/air sigils might be a problem?

This thread as been about the discrepancy between the advertised 1500 range of longbow Rangers and the actual range. This post seems a bit out of left field.

A bit, I apologize. I really just want to get a feeling for what players are annoyed by with Power Rangers. Range definitely seems like a major issue, but if the damage wasn’t so high, would they still be annoyed by it? That’s all I was trying to get at.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

A bit, I apologize. I really just want to get a feeling for what players are annoyed by with Power Rangers. Range definitely seems like a major issue, but if the damage wasn’t so high, would they still be annoyed by it? That’s all I was trying to get at.

Fair enough.

Personally, I think one problem is the risk/reward factor of longbow Rangers. They do more damage the farther away from danger they are. I understand that designing longbow for Rangers and great sword for Mesmers like that make them unique, but is that a good design philosophy with PvP in mind?

To be fair, power Rangers aren’t in a really strong spot as far as the competitive PvP meta is concerned, but it seems to be a source of frustration, in much the same way turret Engineers are.

How does ANET want Rangers to perform in sPvP? Are Rangers better off being a condi/melee point holder, or a zerker/long range burster? Which is potentially healthier for the Conquest, and soon Stronghold, game type?

Also, is there any merit to the complaint about Ranger longbow range being greater than 1500?

You make excellent points JonnyZero

theres several reasons having such ridiculous range is broken in rangers only

1 ranger’s gain 30% damage by simply being a 1000 range distance so not only they gain ridiculous damage but they do so while having twice the range of all game classes as not all have 1500 range

2 what makes rangers hard to counter at times is their pets sure you can have a reflect but once you get feared you ll be knocked back then rapid fired then knocked back by the ranger and finished

to this day i see no one giving a valid reason as to why rangers would Need 2000 range people already complianed that engineers were overpowered because they had 1500 range on slow glowing arcing low damage grenades you avoid by moving to the side why is this diferent on rangers ?( before someone says they are aoe rangers have piercing arrows both hit 5 targets)

4, im not hating on ranger but when i am hitting for 4k auto attacks without might stacks from ranges no one can reach leaving no counter play i clearly see theres a lack in fairplay . its as easy as sending pet for cc or distraction pop up the signet of the wild and bam 8s of 25% extra damage ontop of the 30% gained from being away and stability .

and the 4k value is with pvp stats , so you guess for how much i hit in wvw , so far i ve hit at tops 14.4k damage with rapid fire and havent bought scholar runes nor gotten damage sigils like force and bloodlust.

The actual range in a vacuum seems op but when you look at the ranger class and mediocre they are now you are really exaggerating to say long bow rangers are op. They are only strong at very low levels of play. It requires lazy play by there opponents and no awareness of sorroundings. A lot of points on most pvp maps don’t even give you close to 2000 range los straight to the point. The difference between 1500 and 2000 in a lot of circumstances would be no different.

brannigan.9831:

The actual range in a vacuum seems op but when you look at the ranger class and mediocre they are now you are really exaggerating to say long bow rangers are op. They are only strong at very low levels of play. It requires lazy play by there opponents and no awareness of sorroundings. A lot of points on most pvp maps don’t even give you close to 2000 range los straight to the point. The difference between 1500 and 2000 in a lot of circumstances would be no different.

why do rangers need the 2000 range to begin with ?

because by your logic engineer’s mortar should have 5000 range as it leaves the player completely immobile and unable to use utility skills

All I have to say is let’s see how many rangers are played in the world finals. Only one listed at the moment. That says everything it needs to about LB ranger.

sudden realization that the post was made in the wrong forum section

Rezzet.3614:

brannigan.9831:

The actual range in a vacuum seems op but when you look at the ranger class and mediocre they are now you are really exaggerating to say long bow rangers are op. They are only strong at very low levels of play. It requires lazy play by there opponents and no awareness of sorroundings. A lot of points on most pvp maps don’t even give you close to 2000 range los straight to the point. The difference between 1500 and 2000 in a lot of circumstances would be no different.

why do rangers need the 2000 range to begin with ?

because by your logic engineer’s mortar should have 5000 range as it leaves the player completely immobile and unable to use utility skills

…its a mortar and its suggest range is 1,400yard higher than the base LB’s 1,200 if it was on flat ground it would shoot but only as far as 1,400 because its a

“ground TARGET Siege weapon” and grants 2min Stability while manning the mortar so the trade off is that you use it as a souce of stability to avoid large incomming KD’s and KB’S , its core range is that because of its effect and AoE effect on every skill.

it is a Utility siege weapon not damage , it heals, it chills, it bleeds, and launches a barrage of mortors only to support the CC’s you already placed on the target using a poistol conditions .
use it to apply additional Condi/damage while granting yourself a Bunker point though Toughness/condi gear.

just imagine one turret engi and a second engi using Pistol/shield (condi based) wrench kit mortar build build up CC’s , daze stun jump on mortar you can’t be moved and the turrets kill the person attempting the decap while the engi on point can supply long Range support to Prevent +1’s from entering the fight.

it works on the same ideal of cap prevention by using Range to its advantage.

you can compare what the end Result is but you can not compare a weapon like LB to a Seige utility weapon.

I guess I agree. But i also love the feeling on medi guard when I blink to them when they’re pewpewing from an upper level and wreck them in 1 burst..

Coulter.2315:

Note no one else has requested other projectiles be exempt from whatever change is required tooo.

The entire post is an attack on ranger longbow specifically.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

A bit, I apologize. I really just want to get a feeling for what players are annoyed by with Power Rangers. Range definitely seems like a major issue, but if the damage wasn’t so high, would they still be annoyed by it? That’s all I was trying to get at.

I’m kind of disappointed that in a thread that should be focused on the range bug across the board that you’ve fed the ranger rage. As you mentioned yourself, anyone competent has far less problems with it. Clearly a l2p issue here beyond the range bug. Are you suggesting to nerf the damage to compensate for a bug, and what happens when that bug is eventually fixed? SOL?

Please be more aware of your position and the fact that power range is not competitive in the meta.

JohnnyZero.5619:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

I have an experiment for you guys. I suspect that a large part of what people have an issue with is the fire and air procs. Honestly, I can handle rapid fire. It’s easy to see, it’s obvious when they do it. But the auto attacks. WOW they hurt.

So try playing power ranger (6/6/2/0/0) without using fire and air. If you try it, tell me if you feel a difference. I might try that tonight and see what happens.

Fire and air procs are not exclusive to longbow rangers though. Every zerker build uses them, and they still play second fiddle to the celestial, sustain meta. Are you insinuating that fire/air sigils might be a problem?

This thread as been about the discrepancy between the advertised 1500 range of longbow Rangers and the actual range. This post seems a bit out of left field.

Actually, yes.

Multi-hit combos get the most from fire/air since in a very short amount of time the procs are basically guaranteed to happen. One can run PTV and still proc fire/air in most cases from RF. Fire + air also accounts for about 40% or more of RF’s overall damage dealt without any dodges, and accounts for almost all of the burst when a double dodge is used from the attacks before and after it, almost negating the effects of dodging RF in general.

I have made a separate thread for fire/air discussion being unhealthy for the competitive aspect of GW2 under general discussion, but it appears most people prefer their gimmicky burst specs. Fire/Air is taken by DPS/berserker/burst builds on the sheer basis that no matter how you run the numbers, these sigils are actually just the best unless compared against force/impact with bloodlust and 25 stacks of might on an 80%+ critical chance on high-scaling attacks. Of course sigil of impact is never going to see permanent uptime, either, making any other damage-based composition sub-optimal in every regard for damage output.

LB ranger can be changed to 1500 if and only if all of the other projectile skills affected this way also get changed and the range of castable/ground-targeted AOE skills maxes out of the opposite point of the circle rather than its center. Otherwise, dodge roll forward and use a long-range option as well, use terrain to dis-engage, or force your way forward towards them and avoid essential damaging skills. Then again, an auto on fire+air can kill someone who may be able to survive the base attack/crit as it may turn from a 2k hit to a 6k one.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

PvP Forum Specialist here

Few questions about this:

Show Spoiler

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1. If the range was reduced, would this be balanced?
2. Is this build a good noob tube? It seems like high level players know to go after this first but low level players don’t. This gives a low level player the ability to be helpful to their team without needing to be incredible at the game. That said, I think there’s a lot of skill to this build when it comes to melee fights. Do you agree?
3. How do you feel about entangle? Would you change it at all?

wow thank you for gracing us lowly peasants with your presence

1. we’re not asking for the range to be reduced, we’re asking for it to be fixed. when a tooltip says “this does x” the skill should do x, not x+y. 1500 units is a massive range, and for it to literally become almost 25% longer for no reason is broken. like I said earlier, either reduce the damage it does and officially make the range 1900 units WITHOUT OVERSHOOT or just fix the range to actually stick to ~1500 units.
2. no. this build is a huge gimmick that has no real viability because sadly ranger has no real way of being offensively viable while maintaining ways to stay alive like thief or mesmer. power ranger has become synonymous with “pray you can spam someone down from afar and if they reach you pop signet of stone while desperately hoping you can kill them before it wears off”. it’s just as stupid s/f ele; nothing resembling any way to sustain themselves so they’re forced into adopting a playstyle almost entirely reliant on trying to burst down someone before they can engage you, and falling back on 1 mindless invulnerability skill if they do; which if it fails, you’re more than likely dead. this is just poor design.
3. entangle is perfectly fine but the roots should be allowed to be critically hit/affected by conditions just like engineer’s turrets should be.

another interesting concept i’d like to propose is making fire and air sigils not proc on attacks over a certain distance like 1000 units, this would allow rangers to still hit decently hard at extreme ranges but not let them mow people down with auto attacks proc’ing these sigils. this would also give rangers some incentive to actually fight within distances that other professions can compete with, more risk but more reward.

Is there any map where you can’t move out of LOS when they’re at 2000 range?

No there isn’t.

The range doesn’t make the ranger more deadly, it makes them easier to avoid.

Sube Dai.8496:

Is there any map where you can’t move out of LOS when they’re at 2000 range?

No there isn’t.

The range doesn’t make the ranger more deadly, it makes them easier to avoid.

dunno how to respond to this seriously so im just gonna guess you play ranger or something and are just trying to defend it :/

edit: i was right

I don’t play longbow…

Sube Dai.8496:

Is there any map where you can’t move out of LOS when they’re at 2000 range?

No there isn’t.

The range doesn’t make the ranger more deadly, it makes them easier to avoid.

The closest place would be Spirit watch if the ranger is parked at the Raven balcony aiming down towards the orb or the pathways towards the 2 side nodes. It’s harder to move out of LoS (without hindering yourself) since it’s pretty open.

Sube Dai.8496:

I don’t play longbow…

the point is range is range. it actively increases the area in which a ranger can kill someone. having more of it never hurts like it seems you’re suggesting.

sinject.4607:

Sube Dai.8496:

I don’t play longbow…

the point is range is range. it actively increases the area in which a ranger can kill someone. having more of it never hurts like it seems you’re suggesting.

It also increases the amount of objects between you and the ranger, and increases the projectile time.

You also realise the auto attack doesn’t work above 1500 range right?

The only time you don’t have a chance to reposition is if you don’t see the ranger coming. For that to happen you would have to already be fighting someone else in which case you were 2v1’d, and you didn’t have a chance anyway.

sinject.4607:

another interesting concept i’d like to propose is making fire and air sigils not proc on attacks over a certain distance like 1000 units

i don’t know the range of fire sigil, but i know that if i’m hitting something over 1,400 range with an air sigil, it says “out of range”

Sube Dai.8496:

sinject.4607:

Sube Dai.8496:

I don’t play longbow…

the point is range is range. it actively increases the area in which a ranger can kill someone. having more of it never hurts like it seems you’re suggesting.

It also increases the amount of objects between you and the ranger, and increases the projectile time.

You also realise the auto attack doesn’t work above 1500 range right?

The only time you don’t have a chance to reposition is if you don’t see the ranger coming. For that to happen you would have to already be fighting someone else in which case you were 2v1’d, and you didn’t have a chance anyway.

well to start off, here is a video directly contradicting your claim that the auto attack doesn’t work above 1500 range:

i can also get on my ranger and show you personally me hitting targets far away enough that it doesn’t even put us in combat when the attacks hit.

arron.7348:

sinject.4607:

another interesting concept i’d like to propose is making fire and air sigils not proc on attacks over a certain distance like 1000 units

i don’t know the range of fire sigil, but i know that if i’m hitting something over 1,400 range with an air sigil, it says “out of range”

i just tested this and you’re right. this is weird, i can’t tell if it’s intentional or not and im not sure just how far away you have to be exactly (your number might be right)
but it definitely happens to sigil of air yet not sigil of fire. the attack itself hits, but the sigil proc just displays “out of range”.

edit: also just tested this out with all other proc on crit sigils and it seems sigil of air is the only one that does this (?)

In one way turret engis and LB rangers are two sides of the same coin. At close range, most classes will likely lose to a turret Engi. At a distance, a ranger can use their pet and longbow to wreck most classes.

In both cases here is a class with an obvious niche situation in which they will probably win.

In the case of a turret engi. The answer is simply to range them. So I don’t see that as excessive.

Different story with ranger. Two common counters are suggested: LOS and reflects. There are serious issues with both ideas.

I can’t cap a point without being open to long range fire. That’s the reality. There is not a single point on a single map that is not exposed. ( arguably, Skyhammer A and C are somewhat sheltered ) Thus if I use LOS to save my skin, I cannot help my team.

Reflect lasts a very short time. Feedback has a limited range and therefore cannot even be invoked on a sniping ranger. Necromancer has neither reflect nor stealth. the ranger merely plinks away before and after the reflect. This is not a valid defense when a ranger is out of weapon range.

Longbow arrow damage scaling up with range is illogical and in direct defiance of the laws of physics. It should scale down.

Reverse the scaling and the problem goes away in large part.

Ithilwen.1529:

In the case of a turret engi. The answer is simply to range them. So I don’t see that as excessive.

In the case of LB rangers the answer is simply to get close and kill them. So I don’t see that as excessive.

Ithilwen.1529:

I can’t cap a point without being open to long range fire. That’s the reality. There is not a single point on a single map that is not exposed. ( arguably, Skyhammer A and C are somewhat sheltered ) Thus if I use LOS to save my skin, I cannot help my team.

1. This is not true. On most points a ranger can’t hit anything from 1200+ range, even if the opponent is not actively hiding.
2. A ranger who shoots from far away can’t cap/decap a point either.
3. You can’t cap a point, while attacking a turret engi from range, but he can. Turret engi is way better at decapping/defending a point than LB ranger, so I don’t understand, why dealing with a LB ranger is a bigger problem in conquest mode.

Rezzet.3614:

theres several reasons having such ridiculous range is broken in rangers only

1 ranger’s gain 30% damage by simply being a 1000 range distance so not only they gain ridiculous damage but they do so while having twice the range of all game classes as not all have 1500 range

2 what makes rangers hard to counter at times is their pets sure you can have a reflect but once you get feared you ll be knocked back then rapid fired then knocked back by the ranger and finished

to this day i see no one giving a valid reason as to why rangers would Need 2000 range people already complianed that engineers were overpowered because they had 1500 range on slow glowing arcing low damage grenades you avoid by moving to the side why is this diferent on rangers ?( before someone says they are aoe rangers have piercing arrows both hit 5 targets)

4, im not hating on ranger but when i am hitting for 4k auto attacks without might stacks from ranges no one can reach leaving no counter play i clearly see theres a lack in fairplay . its as easy as sending pet for cc or distraction pop up the signet of the wild and bam 8s of 25% extra damage ontop of the 30% gained from being away and stability .

and the 4k value is with pvp stats , so you guess for how much i hit in wvw , so far i ve hit at tops 14.4k damage with rapid fire and havent bought scholar runes nor gotten damage sigils like force and bloodlust.

a 4k auto attack? seriously…that’s what you’re selling here? So I can 3 shot a thief with auto attacks? I’m coming back to this game…..this is great!

Now we know how to beat The Adjured…just get 5 LB Rangers each auto attacking anyone…wahoo! $25,000 here I come.

YuiRS.8129:

Bran.7425:

You both do realize that every projectile has similar properties and that complain would have to be applied across the board.

No, they can leave other projectiles, because they don’t matter. Ranger LB makes WvW extremely frustrating at times and should be adjusted, that’s the main problem.

Ranger are not all that great at WvW. It can be frustrating in a blob getting pewpewed from afar, but it is way way worse having staff eles in the back of a zerg hammering AOE on the blob…At least the ranger is only single targetting from range…

sinject.4607:

another interesting concept i’d like to propose is making fire and air sigils not proc on attacks over a certain distance like 1000 units, this would allow rangers to still hit decently hard at extreme ranges but not let them mow people down with auto attacks proc’ing these sigils. this would also give rangers some incentive to actually fight within distances that other professions can compete with, more risk but more reward.

Yeah, let’s bar one single build for one profession of sigils that every zerker build abuses.

sinject.4607:

Sube Dai.8496:

Is there any map where you can’t move out of LOS when they’re at 2000 range?

No there isn’t.

The range doesn’t make the ranger more deadly, it makes them easier to avoid.

dunno how to respond to this seriously so im just gonna guess you play ranger or something and are just trying to defend it :/

edit: i was right

Like you have any credibility yourself. You are the creator and crusader of the “profession balance” Rapid Fire QQ.

Ranger is balanced the way that it is now

Also, are you sure this extra range isn’t attributed to a Ranger having higher ground while firing at you?

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Ranger is balanced the way that it is now

Also, are you sure this extra range isn’t attributed to a Ranger having higher ground while firing at you?

ranger is NOT ok, this extended range bug needs to be fixed.