Guild Wars 2

@Muramasma

Couldn’t agree more. For a matter of fact, I am getting a degree in computer science and am now actually spending a year or two working on a game that is what GW2 should have been (of course indie) mainly because GW2 failed and there is a HUGE gap for all the players who played GW1 (and players like them).

In my consideration, the class system I had created is based around four “Professions” (I call races.) Each one has their own ability to use utility skills, support skills, and damage skills but with a highly specialized spin on each. And of course, you can mix and match skills from races creating a class that is completely unique to how you wish to play.

That concept came from looking at what GW1 was and considering what would of happened to it had Anet PROPERLY implemented GW2.

GW2 has awesome mechanics and I would absolutely love to see what would happen if I could simply take exactly what GW2 is now and throw it into a gamemode of GW1 (with some balances of course.)

O, and to your comment about how to properly balance. IMO damage should be extremely strong, but defense should be stronger. The thought is that a failure in the defense has a punishment of taking large damage. It creates a higher cost-reward structure that way. The saving grace being some form of shut down to prevent support from doing their job. The game was always the most fun when there were really strong gimmicks but a balance build that could beat the gimmicks only if ran at a moderately high level. And of course, the balance was such that the defense mitigated most damage, the front line had to present a presence and the midline held the key to unlocking the defense. The smallest opening had to be capitalized on by the offense who could deal excessive damage if given the opening.

meh.. Guildwars 2 has at least taught me a lot in their failure. My main hope is that they open their eyes and learn as the rest of us had before they fail too far (Or I could just hope for Guildwars 2.5, the pure pvp editions lol)

Muramasma.1570:

Also @alcopaul, no offence, but I find it kind of silly that you ran with the IWAY exclusive [MATH] yet pretend to know the intricacies behind GW1 PvP.

Just sayin’.

We ran IWAY in Tombs and GvG in late ‘05 and early ’06 successfully. Vsed Variety of builds and tried to win them all by running it exclusively. It’s not balanced which means it is not versatile. It had major weaknesses. But we tried to win. And won some. got us to higher ranks in the ladder.

It’s similar to what War Machine ran (4 Warriors, 2 Rangers, 2 Monks). So we kinda studied how to beat them variety of builds using a single build. If we can’t kill kitten, we go to VoD if were in GvG. In Tombs, if we can’t kill kitten, we just try and we kill kitten. No /resign kitten. Moreover, there was no Champion title then. And we had the honor to face the leet Koreans a few times in Tombs and in GvG.

Just replace the 2 monks with 2 necros. our warriors didnt use gale nor shock buy mostly axe and sword. One ranger sometimes do traps but it eventually evolved to 2 cripshot rangers. And put some spirits. Almost WM.

We only concerned about killing the lord. So we didn’t care about intricacies such as powerblocking infuse health or timing a perfect diversion because we had no mesmers in our team and we only concern ourselves putting those axes and pets in their faces.

Yeah, we’re MATH and our opinions don’t matter, as usual. This is familiar situation, reminds me of 7 years ago. lol.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=iway&defid=1580791

“One famous Guild known to run IWAY in GvG and be ranked 36 is the guild MATH (Your Math Teacher), they are all ranked 9+ players that win the HoH daily and also hated by half maybe more of the guild wars players..” #throwbackfriday

#alco_still_lives_in_the_glory_days_of_IWAY
#needs_to_move_on

Being successful with a gimmick does not support your position in this thread alco. Please stop repeating the same thing over and over. We get it, you beat some notable guilds with a build that was overpowered at the time. You had a high rank as a result.

#hash__tagsarelame

Motoko.2875:

#alco_still_lives_in_the_glory_days_of_IWAY
#needs_to_move_on

Being successful with a gimmick does not support your position in this thread alco. Please stop repeating the same thing over and over. We get it, you beat some notable guilds with a build that was overpowered at the time. You had a high rank as a result.

#hash__tagsarelame

yo, you still live in the glory days of gw1 pvp, which was long dead before you got gold for zQ.

we’re both guilty of telling glory days story. :P

sorry for being off topic. this will be my final post on this thread.

@Diage

Best of luck to you then, mate. I’ve felt for a long while now that half of GW1’s player base could have put together a more solid PvP game than what we have now, just off of there GW1 experience alone. ANet had all the tools and resources they needed, all the dedicated fanbase a new game could ever hope for, and a completely unique PvP system that had its players raving. Before launch, this game’s many promises and premises seemed (at least to me and a good deal of others) to be a progression/improvement on the system that was well loved. Personally, I was looking forward to a fresh start in the GW world, as I stopped playing at Nightfall’s launch due to time restraint (having played since launch). Instead, we were given World of Charrcraft.

Hindsight may be 20/20, but I’m not sure what ANet expected to happen when they’ve centered the game on its PvE content while treating PvP as some kind of sideshow (lol @ eSport aspirations, they couldn’t have POSSIBLY been taking themselves seriously with that one). What’s more is that the PvE content is relatively bland, easily soloed, and becoming more WoW-like with every update. Content updates are generally just temporary events, yet the player base still faithful to the game will rave about how fast this new content is being pumped out. Actual permanent endgame additions have so far simply been new dungeon treadmills that mirror those of the very games the GW team had once strived to break away from.

Why?

Perhaps the casual PvE crowd they’ve attracted likes buying gems more? Maybe ANet saw the enduring success of WoW and thought they could get the same results by mirroring Blizzard’s game. What they fail to realize is that there are 32178234 other games that have been doing just that for years. Nobody’s gonna beat the heavyweight champion of casual MMO gaming at their own game, it won’t happen.

This is essentially why many have considered this game a failure. Instead of tapping into the HUGE player base they had practically handed to them, they chose to do a 180 and be like every other MMO on the market, with a few gimmicks. This is why game’s population has taken a near-unrecoverable blow since launch. This is why OP’s idea will ultimately be fruitless. This is why s/tPVP will be forever plauged with unbalanced FotM cookie cutter builds, a strong FPS mentality, and a poor to nonexistent community.

These are things that, at this point, I feel ANet MUST be aware of, but choose to not act on, or even simply acknowledge.

P.S. as for the balancing of your game, a strong offence is of course necessary to crack a solid defense, but should be achieved through the combined efforts of the team a la GW1. This is why damage should be reduced – it would force different coordinations rather than having a few powerful DPS’s running around killing anyone as soon as a mistake is made (kind of similar to what we currently have, no?)

@alcopaul

I think you missed the point of my post.

I’m well aware of what [MATH] did and accomplished – I’m not challenging that. In fact, I never really had anything against your guild or even the hordes of IWAYers plaguing the Halls. IWAY was always a gimmick, and it did not take long at all for any team I joined to develop swift and effective strategies for dealing with it. Admittedly, I specifically remember losing to [MATH] at least twice in my time, but that’s just how the game goes – we were outplayed.

No, I’m not challenging [MATH]’s ability to be effective IWAYers (lol @ effective and IWAY used in the same sentence).

What I AM challenging is your viewpoint that the PvP in GW2 is superior, more intricate, dynamic, diverse, etc. than GW1. I cite your history with IWAY as the reason for your misguided opinion. In fact, I can see WHY you would believe that. IWAY was even more of a hack-and-slash fest than the mess we have now. I’m well aware of the strategy employed by the typical IWAY warrior, and any additional professions brought along were equally basic. Furthermore, the IWAY unit is one that closely mirrors the the GW2 unit — a bunch of self-sufficient DPS hotheads running around and doing their own thing, occasionally coordinating some kind of focus fire here and there.

THAT, alcopaul, is why I don’t believe you have any idea of what you’re talking about when it comes to GW1’s PvP intricacies.

It doesn’t change the fact that he’s right…..

Mada.5319:

It doesn’t change the fact that he’s right…..

I said I agreed that conquest is a bad game mode.

Everything in GW2 is suffering from the game design.
it is not just PvP .
WvW is slowly losing players.
Playing PvE is like playing farmville in facebook you will get the same challenge.

Mada.5319:

cuge.5398:

Yeh, exactly, i watched it but with all those speed up/slow down, quick pov change, i really couldnt understand much, i can just guess something about the game from what ppl say here…. so far seems to me it was more focused on teamwork in the fight, with more supportive spells and stuff like that.

Well that video was made for people who were playing gw1 at that time. Try this video and it’s follow ups:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdJM0xsbHhs
It’s quite long but it’s the best video for non gw1 players to watch.

Thanks for this I watched the whole 3 parts. Great GVG.

Muramasma.1570:

@Diage

Best of luck to you then, mate. I’ve felt for a long while now that half of GW1’s player base could have put together a more solid PvP game than what we have now, just off of there GW1 experience alone. ANet had all the tools and resources they needed, all the dedicated fanbase a new game could ever hope for, and a completely unique PvP system that had its players raving. Before launch, this game’s many promises and premises seemed (at least to me and a good deal of others) to be a progression/improvement on the system that was well loved. Personally, I was looking forward to a fresh start in the GW world, as I stopped playing at Nightfall’s launch due to time restraint (having played since launch). Instead, we were given World of Charrcraft.

Hindsight may be 20/20, but I’m not sure what ANet expected to happen when they’ve centered the game on its PvE content while treating PvP as some kind of sideshow (lol @ eSport aspirations, they couldn’t have POSSIBLY been taking themselves seriously with that one). What’s more is that the PvE content is relatively bland, easily soloed, and becoming more WoW-like with every update. Content updates are generally just temporary events, yet the player base still faithful to the game will rave about how fast this new content is being pumped out. Actual permanent endgame additions have so far simply been new dungeon treadmills that mirror those of the very games the GW team had once strived to break away from.

Why?

Perhaps the casual PvE crowd they’ve attracted likes buying gems more? Maybe ANet saw the enduring success of WoW and thought they could get the same results by mirroring Blizzard’s game. What they fail to realize is that there are 32178234 other games that have been doing just that for years. Nobody’s gonna beat the heavyweight champion of casual MMO gaming at their own game, it won’t happen.

This is essentially why many have considered this game a failure. Instead of tapping into the HUGE player base they had practically handed to them, they chose to do a 180 and be like every other MMO on the market, with a few gimmicks. This is why game’s population has taken a near-unrecoverable blow since launch. This is why OP’s idea will ultimately be fruitless. This is why s/tPVP will be forever plauged with unbalanced FotM cookie cutter builds, a strong FPS mentality, and a poor to nonexistent community.

These are things that, at this point, I feel ANet MUST be aware of, but choose to not act on, or even simply acknowledge.

P.S. as for the balancing of your game, a strong offence is of course necessary to crack a solid defense, but should be achieved through the combined efforts of the team a la GW1. This is why damage should be reduced – it would force different coordinations rather than having a few powerful DPS’s running around killing anyone as soon as a mistake is made (kind of similar to what we currently have, no?)

@alcopaul

I think you missed the point of my post.

I’m well aware of what [MATH] did and accomplished – I’m not challenging that. In fact, I never really had anything against your guild or even the hordes of IWAYers plaguing the Halls. IWAY was always a gimmick, and it did not take long at all for any team I joined to develop swift and effective strategies for dealing with it. Admittedly, I specifically remember losing to [MATH] at least twice in my time, but that’s just how the game goes – we were outplayed.

No, I’m not challenging [MATH]’s ability to be effective IWAYers (lol @ effective and IWAY used in the same sentence).

What I AM challenging is your viewpoint that GW2 Pv kitten uperior, more intricate, dynamic, diverse, etc. than GW1. I cite your history with IWAY as the reason for your misguided opinion. In fact, I can see WHY you would believe that. IWAY was even more of a hack-and-slash fest than the mess we have now. I’m well aware of the strategy employed by the typical IWAY warrior, and any additional professions brought along were equally basic. Furthermore, the IWAY unit is one that closely mirrors the the GW2 unit — a bunch of self-sufficient DPS hotheads running around and doing their own thing, occasionally coordinating some kind of focus fire here and there.

THAT, alcopaul, is why I don’t believe you have any idea of what you’re talking about when it comes to GW1’s PvP intricacies.

Everything you said in regards to his opinions in this and other threads I wholehearted agree with and have been thinking everything time he posts.

THANK YOU.

Alright, here is something from former top 100 GvG and top HA player:

Problem with PvP is definitely Anet’s attitude. They expect players to create tournaments and make esports by themselves without giving them much support really. Just remember what Anet’s plans were: to have tournaments running every day and the best players would collect qualifier points and then compete in the big monthly tournaments as well as the big yearly tournament at the end of each year. There was a Wall of Champions that was supposed to show the big tournament winners, and be there so everyone can see who the best teams/players really were.
Now we have: team/pug vs team/pug 1 round matchmaking. And that’s it. The big plans were forgotten due to no effort being put into it, and now they came with the easiest solution:
“dev1: oh I have a great idea, let’s add custom arenas so players can make their own tournaments and not complain anymore ever, and we won’t have to do anything at all”
“dev2: nice! now we’ll have more free time to spend with our families and won’t have to do much work on game, except fixing bugs once a month, brilliant idea!”

This game indeed has a lot of potential. It is amazingly balanced, even though many would disagree. GW1 was great but wasn’t even as close to be as balanced as GW2 is. Sure PvP there was better but that’s because they have actually put effort in it. GW2 PvP is just forgotten and what devs stated after they added Custom Arenas (“alright, go create your own tournaments now, our job is done, kktnxbye”) was just a nail in the coffin.

Solution: put some more effort in developing PvP, instead of forgetting it more and more.
Also: no one likes having “invisible” ratings.

I watched the same thing happen to vindictus because they did not update their game fast enough. Gw2 can implement things to bring in new players and old ones but i guarantee that there will be an expansion to purchase and that they will use the changes as an incentive to purchase the expansion.

Muramasma.1570:

This could potentially be corrected using the system already in place. Nearly all classes do possess a quasi-support role of some sort, the problem is that they’re much to weak to sustain a team against DPS that is much too strong. In my opinion DPS should be lowered across the board, and each class’s unique support build/abilities should be made more powerful in the context of team play. Furthermore, each class should have a viable means of shutting down said support, as well as other interesting role options (again, look to GW1 for inspiration here). The trick is that each player can’t do all these things at once, but would rather assume a role in a group that may accomplish all these things. The best part is, as each class’s mechanisms for each role differ, a wide variety of team building is made possible. This was my initial hope for the removal of the trinity, and is completely doable in the system already implemented in this game – with some intense tweaks and balancing issues, of course.

Strongly agree with this, the ingredients to bring life to support role are in game already, but the effort to use them is way larger then the reward when compared to the dps that a single player can dish out.
All my friends know i’m a buildcrafting addict, i cant stop exploring every possible way for a class, and thus i also tried to focus my 2 main (necro and mesmer) toward support role.

I think these 2 classes has some really great tools to be supportive ex:

Mez – Boonshare build: i used it with my WvW guild when shattered strength was boosted to 3 might/shatter, combined with runes of lyssa and different combos i could give my party ALL boons, including 30s fury, and 25 stacks of might.
Now, shattered strength was actually too strong but the concept of the build was really really interesting, just doesnt seem to really be viable in this kind of tournaments.

Necro – Healer/resser: healing power to the bone, well of blood was ticking for 800/s, leaving DS was aoe healing for 800 i think, at most 1k, then life transfer (DS 4) was doing something similar. When ressing someone i could create a WoB for more healing aoe.

Mez – Healer: using a trait which makes mantra heal allies when cast, with some healing power can be pushed to 2700 aoe heal + perma regen given from phantasms.

but… what are 300, 800, 2700 heal when a single shatter can do 6k-10k dmg to the whole group ? or a blade spin, or a granades throw.
Another problem with this support-play is that it requires really close range (300-600), which means the whole group should stay packed and ready to get wiped with enemy aoe.
So yeh, seems like devs wanted to put some tools in, but they didnt want them to be effective for some reasons. Its not even hard to change this, just a overall reduction of dps and an increased range on those party-support skills.

i find it amusing that you’re all arguing about what is wrong in gw2 pvp nearly 1 year after release. do you really think that the ppl who were testing this game before it was released didn’t point out the exact same issues you guys are complaining about? the game you have now simply shows that the devs wanted to have this shallow game full of animation particles. they’re perfectly happy with with it.

i’m not even gonna bother making suggestions for improvement because it’s futile. the core of the game can’t be changed. either you like it or you don’t.

i’d go as far to say that a game like LoL is more of a sequel to gw1 pvp that gw2 will ever be.

@cuge

Exactly my point. It’s clear that ANet isn’t going to drastically change core mechanics of the game, but these tools are already in the freakin’ game! Just needs balanced out in more than a couple areas, as you have demonstrated. Adding dedicated support roles also opens a wealth of possibilities for new roles that could be implemented and ultimately improve teamplay, which is a core aspect this game lacks.

@Rezz

Obviously, PvP has been hurting from lack of dev attention since launch (and hell, probably since before launch). I also agree with everything you’ve said with regards to custom arenas and the lack of game-driven tournaments. I really don’t believe the diminishing PvP community can be very effective at picking up this slack, especially at this point, though I’m certainly not against other people trying.

It would be nice to see a booming PvP community, but core mechanics have driven away most serious PvPers, which in turn has crushed any hope for dev support, which insures that these core mechanisms will remain unattended to, which in turn keeps serious PvPers from playing, which in turn keeps devs from doing anything, which in turn… well you probably get the idea by now.

In the end, Laili is probably (read: definitely) right.

Sorry lads. Can’t agree. Gw1 was atrocious. Point and click, No jumping and had a high learning curve that unless u played from the start it was almost impossible to make any sense of the game without outside website information.

It also looked extremely weird watching your characters move. The skill system was interesting, and the game modes were fun but that’s about it.

GW2 seriously lacks systems and infrastructure, but outside of that it is light years ahead of GW1. It certainly is far from perfect and quite different but here’s a red hot tip you can take to the bank, Arena Net knows some of you will dislike this game.

That’s why they didn’t shutdown GW1. Feel free to go back and play that.

Whilst your on your way there, take your whinging with you.

all hail gw2!
game where you can jump and your character doesn’t look “extremely weird” when moving!
what innovation!
what incredible advances in gaming technology!

Valkyriez.6578:

Sorry lads. Can’t agree. Gw1 was atrocious. Point and click, No jumping and had a high learning curve that unless u played from the start it was almost impossible to make any sense of the game without outside website information.

It also looked extremely weird watching your characters move. The skill system was interesting, and the game modes were fun but that’s about it.

GW2 seriously lacks systems and infrastructure, but outside of that it is light years ahead of GW1. It certainly is far from perfect and quite different but here’s a red hot tip you can take to the bank, Arena Net knows some of you will dislike this game.

That’s why they didn’t shutdown GW1. Feel free to go back and play that.

Whilst your on your way there, take your whinging with you.

Gw2 isn’t a shooter where you have to target. How does jumping help?

Some ppl are just easily impressed I guess.

On another note, I guess you never figured out how to keybind WASD to move in gw1? I guess you’re right about the game. It’s impossible to make sense of it. It requires thinking, looking at UI options and so on. No button mashing. It’s gotta suck

Valkyriez.6578:

Sorry lads. Can’t agree. Gw1 was atrocious. Point and click, No jumping and had a high learning curve that unless u played from the start it was almost impossible to make any sense of the game without outside website information.

It also looked extremely weird watching your characters move. The skill system was interesting, and the game modes were fun but that’s about it.

GW2 seriously lacks systems and infrastructure, but outside of that it is light years ahead of GW1. It certainly is far from perfect and quite different but here’s a red hot tip you can take to the bank, Arena Net knows some of you will dislike this game.

That’s why they didn’t shutdown GW1. Feel free to go back and play that.

Whilst your on your way there, take your whinging with you.

One of the things we GW1 vets looked forward to was a more modern Guild Wars, with all the nice bells and whistles that GW2 did actually bring. I’m sort of at a loss at why you think that just because GW2 is graphically ahead of GW1 (and oh goody, we can jump now), that makes it a superior game. Furthermore, citing the point and click mechanic just demonstrates your lack of experience with the game.

The only thing worthwhile you have brought up is the steep learning curve. I stopped playing GW1 shortly before Nightfall, and a year or so later when I thought I might want to return, I realized it would be too difficult. There would be hundreds of new skills, builds, and strategies I would need to familiarize myself with at that point. That’s why I, and many others, viewed GW2 as a fresh start and a solution to this problem.

You’ve really given no reasons as to why GW2 is “lightyears ahead,” you’ve simply revealed your own uninformed biases.

Also, there is nothing more pointless, counterproductive, and immature as a post that says “stop wining, go back to X.” Seriously. I shouldn’t have to tell you why.

There’s plenty of people out there that tried GW1 and didnt like it, quite likely more then than the people that did.

We are all entitled to an opinion, mine is that GW1 was terrible and felt as clunky as they come. Yours is different, funny how both are valid.

Valkyriez.6578:

Sorry lads. Can’t agree. Gw1 was atrocious. Point and click, No jumping and had a high learning curve that unless u played from the start it was almost impossible to make any sense of the game without outside website information.

GW1 was not atrocious. GW1 was ahead of its time. Point and click? You realize people used “click to move” as a form to outplay their opponents right? You realize body blocking your opponent to control movement was a tactical and skilled maneuver right? You realize learning any new game at a competitive level will take some time and skill right?

Valkyriez.6578:

It also looked extremely weird watching your characters move. The skill system was interesting, and the game modes were fun but that’s about it.

I know right? Watching characters have two legs and be able to actually USE them?!?!? That concept is a fantasy MMORPG right there in itself! And “that’s” about it? You realize that is exactly what made GW1 amazing right?

Valkyriez.6578:

GW2 seriously lacks systems and infrastructure, but outside of that it is light years ahead of GW1. It certainly is far from perfect and quite different but here’s a red hot tip you can take to the bank, Arena Net knows some of you will dislike this game.

That’s why they didn’t shutdown GW1. Feel free to go back and play that.

Whilst your on your way there, take your whinging with you.

GW2 lacks EVERYTHING. GW2 started with EVERYTHING. Look what the game has diminished to.

Think about this for a second: If GW2 PvP __is so far ahead of GW1 PvP, why has the GW2 PvP died almost instantaneously with the PvP population practically uninstalling the game while GW1 PvP has more competition than GW2 PvP currently has?

Is GW2 PvP just SO INCREDIBLE and SO FAR AHEAD that all the “Pros” aren’t ready to handle it?

The answer is pretty obvious here. Try to not let all the shiny effects distract you from how poor the game has degraded since GW1.

Valkyriez.6578:

There’s plenty of people out there that tried GW1 and didnt like it, quite likely more then than the people that did.

We are all entitled to an opinion, mine is that GW1 was terrible and felt as clunky as they come. Yours is different, funny how both are valid.

Both opinions are valid. Hence opinion.

Your opinion sits with the minority.
The opposing opinion to your opinion rests with the majority.

Funny right?

Valkyriez.6578:

There’s plenty of people out there that tried GW1 and didnt like it, quite likely more then than the people that did.

We are all entitled to an opinion, mine is that GW1 was terrible and felt as clunky as they come. Yours is different, funny how both are valid.

I think you’re in the wrong thread. We’re not discussing the animations, aesthetics, or graphics of GW1. We’re also not talking about how you found it to be “clunky.” We’re discussing the core mechanisms that created such a massive PvP fanbase, and the failure of ANet bring any of these mechanics to GW2. The sequel. As in the game based off of the first one. Which received critical acclaim for this particular aspect.

It’s not like we are pushing to have point to click implemented, or jumping taken out, or the nice shiny graphics to be taken away.

Why are you here???

Look. I said in my post that GW2 seriously lacks systems and infrastructure. Yes, some of those better things could have definitely come across from GW1. As far as combat goes though, this is an ARPG in most respects. It is not supposed to be GW1 with better graphics. The combat, movement and effects are light years ahead of its predecessor “in my opinion”.

If Arena net can get the right infrastructure in place, this game will be amazing. It might not be your cup of tea, but that’s ok aswell.

Why am I here? Because I want to be. I enjoy playing this game even with some of its faults, I just don’t play it at the moment due to no solo que and poorly implemented MMR. Once those are fixed, I’ll be straight back in.

We can discuss about who is right till the end of the centuries, but the reality is that we can just provide suggestions and our impressions to Anet, once done we cant do much else but hope for the better.

I wonder when “the big bosses” will see competitive pvp as a source of money as much as pve, cause at that point, maybe, they might invest more on pvp development, and we’ll have a chance to see some good changes.

It seems Valkyriez problem with gw1 is that its not as cosmetically pretty as gw2. So his opinion definitely has truth to it, I don’t think anyone would disagree.

However, no gw1 player is concerned about that. They are concerned about the system mechanics. Something which is quite inferior to the original. I guess the example would be, after the success of Street Fighter 4. Capcom announces Street Fighter 5 for the PS4 and new Xbox.

We see the screenshots and think it looks amazing. The animations are much more fluid, heck it on par with traditional 2d Disney animation but its all 3d. Wow!!!!

When SF fans get their hands on the game finally, they find out it plays like smash bros with motion controls. Their reaction would be like wtf? While people who never liked SF in the first place, but enjoy smash bros would say how great the game is!

That is what happened with gw2. So of course fans of the original will express their disappointment. Anet should of built upon the gw1 pvp formula and used the new engine to address issues that weren’t possible to deal with in gw1. Instead, they toss the entire formula out the window. Kind of reminds me of what happened with guilty gear 2.

Just a few things:

1) GW2 aesthetics are horrid – in every single aspect – from armor design to character looks (I suppose the target audience must have been lolicon-lovers). GW1 outclasses them BY FAR, in terms of style as well as facial/body options. As a matter of fact, it’d have been perfect had they kept the original facial designs and simply allowed modification. Instead, the characters remind me more of Lord of the rings online, where you couldn’t make anything decent-looking with the atrocious face/head/body designs given. And I won’t even go into the gaudy and lacklustre designs of most armor sets in GW2.
GW1 had style and elegance, but MOST IMPORTANT, it had proffesion-based armor types, which were not only well-designed, but also allowed you to be able to recognize immediately what class you’re facing, without having to click on them to see the class. Didn’t the devs one say you’d be able to tell easily what/who is on the field just by looking at it? Well until someone actually hits you, you might have quite a hard time telling light-armor wearing characters apart without clicking on them.

2) Mura, I planned on pointing out the obvious similarity between IWAY and GW, but you beat me to it. It is very true that IWAY worked very extremely similar to how GW2 pvp does. All in all, your posts are in general nothing short of brilliant, and I hope to see many more to come.

3) Diage, I also wholeheartedly agree with the comparison of GW1 to a rl team sport (football in your case). For me, I always found it similar to voley ball, which I used to train back in my high-school years, and the coordination and the team work required between team mates in both GW and such rl sports were one of the main things that made the game as good as it is/was.

4) Why the fk are people so obsessed with jumping? When I play GW1 I don’t miss it one bit, nor do I see any real need for it. Having said that, I suppose it could serve as a nice addition to the original pvp design, had that one actually been taken into account when designing GW2 pvp.

I really enjoyed reading this thread and I got to agree with your statements (except for the guy talking about graphics and animations, sigh).
Sadly, most people in this thread seem to have a better idea on GW1/GW2 and more passion for these games than the actual developer.

Tarisuca.3142:

I really enjoyed reading this thread and I got to agree with your statements (except for the guy talking about graphics and animations, sigh).
Sadly, most people in this thread seem to have a better idea on GW1/GW2 and more passion for these games than the actual developer.

Yeah, actually it’s even more simple. When Anet made GW1 they had passion for a good game with some serious grown-up PvP.

When Anet made GW2 they had passion for lots of moneyz. And that’s where the passion ended.

Funny thing tho, if they made a decent game, those of us that love serious grown-up content wouldn’t mind wasting 10-20€ per month in their online shop…

And my friend often asked me: “Tell me just what’s wrong with GW2…”
And I struggled a lot in finding the right words for everything I thought they made wrong… Then suddenly one day I came up with this great idea – I told him: “Everything they did has absolutely no balls, NO BALLS.”

And I think that – for many people, describes the game best. Anet took 0 risk in design of any feature/mechanic… and they got 0 gain. Actually what they got was 1 huge loss…

On the other hand, when they designed GW1 GvG, HA, they took lots of risk, because it was completely new, out of the box. It HAD BALLS. And they got gain from that!

P.s. Oh and 1 more thing. GW2 wouldn’t have sold as much as it did, if Anet hand’t taken those risks when they designed GW1. GW2 sold a lot because GW1 was great. Sadly GW2 isn’t great… and it makes me a sad panda.

I guarantee they are trying to make us buy the next expansion. Players will easily buy the expansion if they increase the number of skills and implement and most requested forums of pvp. There are other things players want that may be used to cause other players to buy the next expansion.

I’ll be honest in saying I’ve only skimmed this due to all the nostalgia bickering. But, I’ll weigh in here too. Thus I apologize if any of this has been said above.

Long story short I achieved rank 12 and Champ 4 or so guesting with some big names while they were active; so I did the time in GW1 PvP. However, I really fail to see it’s relation to GW2 at all. The combat is fundamentally different and so PvP has to be fundamentally different. I know people in this thread are aware of this, but I think we need to just drop the “well its not successful because it isn’t enough like GW1”.

What I think set GW1 apart was its high level of organization and its pacing wasn’t overly action packed. It was a near idyllic blend of individual player skill, ability of a team leader to properly strategize and communicate and a further reliance on individual shot calling to dynamically change the nature of any fight. In my opinion, GW2 can use these points as something to work around, but ultimately it needs to cater more to the dynamic change of the field, which is frankly what their original “vision” was.

More people than I can count have been screaming for something other than conquest, which is clearly A-Net’s first step. They gave a pretty feeble attempt with Spirit Watch, but the difference in game modes needs to be more dramatic. HA is the obvious example, but all those modes would need heavy tweaks to be workable. The point being, they could just lock their level design interns in a room with a weeks worth of coffee and adderall, and they’d come out with something better than conquest.

The BIGGEST problem in my eyes is that rank is meaningless (and I know it was in GW1 as well) and there is no way to be automatically matched with players of your personal skill level. But, as stated before, LoL is the current standard on match making and a carbon copy of their system would probably work beautifully with GW2. Stats aren’t something to be scared of and if you are a casual/novice player, there’s no reason to being pitted against sponsored eSports teams. Leaderboards are an important step, but we have yet to see the dangling carrot. I’d really like to see more variables tracked, such as number of successful dodges, amount of damage absorbed/healed/done, average captures per game, etc. etc. And worked into an algorithm that gives you a rating. (not rank) GW1 had a mediocre rating system, but sophisticated systems are working very well in other games. This also just gives players and idea of what they need to work on.

Finally, instanced/proximity VOIP through the client would really help out solo queue and hotjoin SO MUCH. It would allow experienced players to directly lead novices in a tactical way that gets them more prepared for higher level play. A big pool of experienced players is really what makes a PvP game an eSports competive PvP game. That being said, it wouldn’t hurt to have team captains assigned to teams like a WvW commander. Many games make use of this as well.

It just seems like A-Net is treading on eggshells trying to not dramatically change PvP, but rather trickle in changes until all the exploits are found and then nerf it back to “balance”. This is exactly what they did with GW1, and frankly GW2 Pv kitten o underdeveloped that this doesn’t work now. As far as the competitive scene goes, we’re all just waiting around. If I had one piece of advice for the PvP team at areanet, it would be this:

Get creative, get dramatic, and get in touch with the most dedicated players you have on a regular basis. Don’t let your near impossible QA standard force an underdeveloped system fall by the wayside.

I know they’re trying, and I know they feel the same way, but it’s time to actually make some big changes and just see what happens. If it’s clearly broken, just fix it. It’s as simple as just throwing up some beta no progression servers and even tournaments to give the dedicated “hardcore” group something fun to do. If they can generate that initial excitement pre-release GW2 offered in eSports PvP again, the community will follow in droves.

As it stands GW2 is fragmented into 3 isolated games, its time to make them all interrelated. GW1 was a PvP game with a PvE sideshow, GW2 reversed that. This is totally fine if it’s all for marketing, but if they really want a competitive community, PvP needs to be the game’s pinnacle again.

TLDR;
Need more game modes.
Need dynamic RATING and stats that contribute directly to match making.
Need a better way for solo/non-team affiliated players to communicate.
A-Net: Just start throwing stuff out there!
Bring back the Glory in PvP.

Muramasma.1570:

@alcopaul

I think you missed the point of my post.

I’m well aware of what [MATH] did and accomplished – I’m not challenging that. In fact, I never really had anything against your guild or even the hordes of IWAYers plaguing the Halls. IWAY was always a gimmick, and it did not take long at all for any team I joined to develop swift and effective strategies for dealing with it. Admittedly, I specifically remember losing to [MATH] at least twice in my time, but that’s just how the game goes – we were outplayed.

No, I’m not challenging [MATH]’s ability to be effective IWAYers (lol @ effective and IWAY used in the same sentence).

What I AM challenging is your viewpoint that the PvP in GW2 is superior, more intricate, dynamic, diverse, etc. than GW1. I cite your history with IWAY as the reason for your misguided opinion. In fact, I can see WHY you would believe that. IWAY was even more of a hack-and-slash fest than the mess we have now. I’m well aware of the strategy employed by the typical IWAY warrior, and any additional professions brought along were equally basic. Furthermore, the IWAY unit is one that closely mirrors the the GW2 unit — a bunch of self-sufficient DPS hotheads running around and doing their own thing, occasionally coordinating some kind of focus fire here and there.

THAT, alcopaul, is why I don’t believe you have any idea of what you’re talking about when it comes to GW1’s PvP intricacies.

Have you ever heard about the observer mode in Guild Wars 1? Coz i’ve heard about that. and through that i saw in observer the great notable guilds who played. yes i was there when Observer was so new and even there were apprehensions from some guilds to not be featured in observer mode (we wanted to be on observer mode to add more to our fame/notoriety coz we wanted to be seen everywhere so we climbed up the ladder coz only those top teams will be observed) . i even cited the WM and LuM play. watched how iQ waited till VoD in their base till they VoD’ed EvIL. Or watched how WM loses to EvIL all the time. Etc. Etc.. Yes, i’ve watched countless of Quality Observer mode battles – Championship and or even Tombs matches that features guilds to beat for our guild. Sure you can say that I’m not playing in them, but at least i have an idea of whats going on because i can watch both teams doing their thing.

You’re making it sound as if all i watch in observer mode was IWAY vs IWAY matches, you’re mistaken.

I admitted that i don’t play tPvP. So my opinion about the PvP’s quality is based on my BEING AN SPECTATOR in both games, which is important because PvP without avid spectators is a dead e-sport (and this is why GvG guild wars 1 is dead because no one is watching them in twitch and even in game). And again, I think that GW1 is clunky and GW2 is more dynamic. I seldom (ranger vs ranger flagrunner flagstand fight which was ‘05-’06 thing) or don’t see (coz nowadays people are running ritualist or doing A/P kitten spike) 1vs1 in GvG, especially nowadays. I had the chance to watch a GvG yesterday and top teams are running kittenty A/P spike. How intricate is that. When i watched TP vs Team Hman, i saw a lot of movement, map control, effective spiking from both teams, with TP coming from behind and winning, and their skill. I tried to copy the beastmaster bunker build and run it in solo que as if i were TP Symbolic but i get owned. That’s the time i had an idea of how skilled TP Symbolic is, having watched him play.

So it invalidates your point that what you play is what you are. You certainly forgot about what you watch is what you think about.

Ben Cheney.2753:

Long story short I achieved rank 12 and Champ 4 or so guesting with some big names while they were active; so I did the time in GW1 PvP. However, I really fail to see it’s relation to GW2 at all. The combat is fundamentally different and so PvP has to be fundamentally different. I know people in this thread are aware of this, but I think we need to just drop the “well its not successful because it isn’t enough like GW1”.

The fact that you don’t see the relation between the two is exactly why we are where we are today. The fact they are so different. That is the prime mistake and what has taken us here in the first place.

And why would we drop that argument? That argument is true. It is not as successful as GW1 PvP? Well, the obvious answer is that it is not enough like GW1.

**Also – Is Anet really paying attention to this thread like they said they would lol.

Motoko.2875:

And why would we drop that argument? That argument is true. It is not as successful as GW1 PvP? Well, the obvious answer is that it is not enough like GW1.

**Also – Is Anet really paying attention to this thread like they said they would lol.

I’m fine with a few steps away from GW1, if they were done well…
[insert rant here]

Anyways, I’m sure they skim over it from time to time, but anything not fallowing their current gameplan (help streaming of conquest, minor balance tweaks) probably isn’t going to be taken too seriously by them (which is an utter tragedy).

Motoko.2875:

**Also – Is Anet really paying attention to this thread like they said they would lol.

Well this thread is discussing the mistakes that have been made in both gw1 and gw2 pvp. I think you already know the answer to your question.

Another guy sharing our opinion but who will listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gt_PBjcT1Mg

@KarlaGrey

I just noticed you posted in a favorite thread of mine two months after I left the forums =P. Thank you for that (I thought it inappropriate to necropost on my own thread to thank you lol)!

Since writing that thread though, there has been a lot I had learned just through exploration and my own discoveries in trying to design a balanced system. It makes me feel good though that most of those ideas are not ones I feel alone and that many other passionate people agree with.

I think Anet lost a passion somewhere along the road. I remember the romantic concept of Anet when they made GW1. A group of developers creating a game they wanted to play themselves. They weren’t a group of people divided from the community by what appears to be politicians, where every comment needed to be rehearsed 19 times before said. They created a concept more powerful than a rehearsed story could ever be. The most charismatic person will never be caught reciting a speech verbatim and the most amazing game won’t be one where every strategy is pre-designed by the developers. Whether Anet knew that or not when they made Guildwars 1, it was the result. They created a game which was far larger than they could ever have hoped it could be, and that to me is a romantic notion that no big developer could hope to embody. It seems that, on average, a companies first love is always their best, and it appears as if Anet won’t be an exception to that rule.

I recently started working on a spiritual successor to TeamBuilder. Bascially a TeamBuilder 2 for GuildWars 2. I have some lines of code here, which do really rudimentary stuff like connecting to a server, or chatting on a channel/globally. By I halted it for now, because when I started thinking about how I want to make the actual team building functionality (like how should the UI look like, how should it act in case of different users viewing different stuff, like traitlines vs. skills vs. runes, or complete different characters), I immediatly thought… why would I use this program?…
Why would anyone?

It’s not like you are building a character with your teammates build in mind. It goes as far as building your characters with the others roles in mind. That’s about it.

It’s not like a mesmers is saying, yes, I am going to take Null Field, so you Guardian can reduce or completely go without condition removal.
The synergy between each player is barely existant, and that was one of the biggest factors which made GW1 so awesome in terms of PvP. Everyone had a very specific role, and tools for this role. Nobody could get everything. You had to rely on your team.

And that is what I am missing in GW2 PvP.

@Varonth

This is what I think is where GW2’s biggest fault lies. This is why we have some Call of Duty / WoW hybrid going on. I think it’s by far the biggest step they’ve taken from GW1, and it’s also why the GW1 vets have all left it. I’ve ranted enough in this thread why it’s been done and what they can do to fix it. It’ll likely fall on deaf ears anyhow.

@alcopaul

Oh boy.

So you’re telling me you don’t even PLAY tPvP in this game? And you’re basing the PvP experience of BOTH games off of SPECTATING???

Jesus man.

You’re going to sit there and tell me it’s more important for ANet to make a game that’s easier for spectators to watch than it is for them to make a game that is actually awesome to play.

Really?

You should work for them, they would absolutely LOVE to have you.

P.S. Of course I’ve heard of spectator mode, I have a feeling I started playing GW at least at the same time as you, if not sooner. Furthermore, I stopped playing before all of the skill imbalance / build imbalance issues happened, which I’ve gathered from other GW1 vets were the main factors that destroyed the game. I would implore you to compare GW2’s PvP to GW1’s PvP before this happened, say, within the first few chapters.

It strikes me as odd that literally ALL the naysayers will try to trash GW1 for its late, botched PvP rather than it’s early AMAZING PvP, yet they’re so quick to tell us that GW2 is still a new game, so we can’t compare it to GW1 which has had 8 years of development.

I can’t even comprehend these forums sometimes.

@Aza

Your comparison is beautiful and it made me very sad.

@KarlaGrey

Mmmm warm fuzzies

Seriously though, I did enjoy GW1 aesthetics quiet a lot personally (felt a lot more epic to me) but this is, of course, subjective. I must say, I do enjoy pretty much all aspects of Asura armor and environment

The jumping thing really illustrates the point that nobody actually has any clue what they’re talking about. Arguing for the sake of arguing? Fanboying for the sake of fanboying? Who knows.

Muramasma.1570:

The jumping thing really illustrates the point that nobody actually has any clue what they’re talking about. Arguing for the sake of arguing? Fanboying for the sake of fanboying? Who knows.

Everyone thinks they are qualified to be a critic. Sadly those people won’t admit they haven’t a clue.

Assyrian.4827:

Another guy sharing our opinion but who will listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gt_PBjcT1Mg

Ehh.
Making a vid about a game being bad, but giving a harshly subjective take on it, focusing on odd, not so necessarily bad things is just inviting people to blow off a perspective as a whole.
I get it he doesn’t like GW2, but stat distributions in traitlines and heartseeker spams are the least of its’ problems.
Node capping isn’t innately bad and healers aren’t always necessary.

(he constantly touches on major issues, like the lack of trinity killing innate teamwork in combat, how GW2 conquest has design flaws, the issue of ‘mediocre weapon setups’ in a game that needed great… it is a game based around a small amount of preset skills unlike GW1, throwing the ball completely into Anet’s court when it comes to creating quality specs. They needed skills, actually leaning a lil more towards a MOBA’s than traditional MMO, since the amount of skills up at a time is far closer to a MOBAs.

Amulet stats not actually fitting the weapons Anet made is a good point though, especially since the game is in a massive crunch for skills most of the time)

Muramasma.1570:

@alcopaul

Oh boy.

So you’re telling me you don’t even PLAY tPvP in this game? And you’re basing the PvP experience of BOTH games off of SPECTATING???

Jesus man.

You’re going to sit there and tell me it’s more important for ANet to make a game that’s easier for spectators to watch than it is for them to make a game that is actually awesome to play.

Sponsors want popular e-sports based on number of spectators. The word viral itself depend on the number of people following a content. Yes, spectators matter. The more engaging and exciting to watch an e-sport, the more people will watch them. It an integral gauge. Why is Gangnam Style popular? Because it has a billion or more views in youtube. Popular and population? Same root right?

In this day and age, you gotta please the spectators. Most athletes do it for the spectators. IDK what goes into the minds of Lebron and Kobe when they play basketball. I’m thinking that they must be bored because its only passing a ball in a circular ring. That must be boring? right? but no. They get paid because of the sponsorship which is because there are billions of people watching them buying their merchandise and idolizing and trying to imitate them. Money, fame, respect in exchange of putting a ball inside a circular ring. What do the athletes have to do? Promote the game. Speak well of the league. Do they complain about the boringness of shooting kitten for almost one year and almost do it everyday? you don’t see that. (People here don’t know how to sugarcoat or force swallow just to make the scene good and grow it.)

And these spectators will patronize and like a sport that is easy to watch or exciting or they think that is strategic. See, some people like to spectate chess, and some people like to spectate curling.

I’m part the demographic that A.NET wants to reach out to – those who don’t play tPvP or don’t even own the game but is enticed to play it because the advertisement (observer mode) is so convincing or a reputable site that headlines “GW2 tPvP, exciting to watch, more exciting to play!” swayed them to try it for themselves. And I’m pretty sure, were over 9000 larger in population compared the number of top teams. Business wise, A.NET would want this because this just means that if their tPvP becomes appealing, it will become popular and if it is popular, more people will buy the game. And the first step to learning something is not to immediately do it, but to watch how it is done. So spectate first, learn, get their builds and try to get to solo que, perhaps?

Yes, I’m basing my third person/omni view of PvP experience by watching them. It’s like being God, you see what happens in all sides. You’ll see the whole abstraction. If you play the game, you just see yourself doing your own thing. You may see some intricacies but you won’t see everything. Sure you could watch your match later on, but if you do, YOU BECOME A SPECTATOR, just like me..

You know what? Shoutcasters are spectators too. And for them to be exciting to hear, what they are watching should be exciting too, right? Shoutcasters don’t play the game and shoutcast at the same time, last time i check.

alcopaul.2156:

Muramasma.1570:

@alcopaul

Oh boy.

So you’re telling me you don’t even PLAY tPvP in this game? And you’re basing the PvP experience of BOTH games off of SPECTATING???

Jesus man.

You’re going to sit there and tell me it’s more important for ANet to make a game that’s easier for spectators to watch than it is for them to make a game that is actually awesome to play.

Sponsors want popular e-sports based on number of spectators. The word viral itself depend on the number of people following a content. Yes, spectators matter. The more engaging and exciting to watch an e-sport, the more people will watch them. It an integral gauge. Why is Gangnam Style popular? Because it has a billion or more views in youtube. Popular and population? Same root right?

In this day and age, you gotta please the spectators. Most athletes do it for the spectators. IDK what goes into the minds of Lebron and Kobe when they play basketball. I’m thinking that they must be bored because its only passing a ball in a circular ring. That must be boring? right? but no. They get paid because of the sponsorship which is because there are billions of people watching them buying their merchandise and idolizing and trying to imitate them. Money, fame, respect in exchange of putting a ball inside a circular ring. What do the athletes have to do? Promote the game. Speak well of the league. Do they complain about the boringness of shooting kitten for almost one year and almost do it everyday? you don’t see that. (People here don’t know how to sugarcoat or force swallow just to make the scene good and grow it.)

And these spectators will patronize and like a sport that is easy to watch or exciting or they think that is strategic. See, some people like to spectate chess, and some people like to spectate curling.

I’m part the demographic that A.NET wants to reach out to – those who don’t play tPvP or don’t even own the game but is enticed to play it because the advertisement (observer mode) is so convincing or a reputable site that headlines “GW2 tPvP, exciting to watch, more exciting to play!” swayed them to try it for themselves. And I’m pretty sure, were over 9000 larger in population compared the number of top teams. Business wise, A.NET would want this because this just means that if their tPvP becomes appealing, it will become popular and if it is popular, more people will buy the game. And the first step to learning something is not to immediately do it, but to watch how it is done. So spectate first, learn, get their builds and try to get to solo que, perhaps?

Yes, I’m basing my third person/omni view of PvP experience by watching them. It’s like being God, you see what happens in all sides. You’ll see the whole abstraction. If you play the game, you just see yourself doing your own thing. You may see some intricacies but you won’t see everything. Sure you could watch your match later on, but if you do, YOU BECOME A SPECTATOR, just like me..

You know what? Shoutcasters are spectators too. And for them to be exciting to hear, what they are watching should be exciting too, right? Shoutcasters don’t play the game and shoutcast at the same time, last time i check.

Millions watch soccer because it is a fun game to play? yes
ppl have fun playing soccer because millions watch it? no

Assyrian.4827:

Millions watch soccer because it is a fun game to play? yes
ppl have fun playing soccer because millions watch it? no

Millions watch soccer because it is a fun game to watch. Not everybody can play soccer but even those who don’t play soccer watch soccer (Most of the soccer analysts and shoutcasters didn’t even play any soccer but studied it academically). Know why? because it is a fun game to watch. And that’s the first step. Appeal to the spectators. Then that spectator can buy a soccer ball and try a few tricks in his back yard. Then he may sign up in his varsity. Etc Etc.

Professional soccer players have fun playing soccer not only for the sake of fun, but also from their pay. Popular teams have better sponsorship or extra pay from their merchandise. It’s a popularity contest between individual players too. And this won’t happen without people who watch them, buy their stuff, talk highly of them or make a viral blogpost about them.

The last statement should be a yes.

Professional players have fun playing soccer because the millions of people who watch it makes it popular, carrying them players. When it’s popular, there is pouring of $$$, sponsorship and fame. And when it’s popular, people will try to play it in a vacant lot or even setup their own amateur league. and that’s by the millions.

This is how you grow a sport, or an e-sport even.

I’ve seen players mention on several occasions that gw2 is a very fast paced game. I agree with this to a extent. Unlike gw1 which were the max cooldown to skills were 60secs. Gw2 gives us the traditional mmorpg approach with “powerful skills and long cooldowns”.

Because of this, gw1 gameplay actually feels more fluid, since there isn’t a long interval between rotating skill cooldowns. To make matters worse, many of the skills with the longest cooldowns tend to be the least powerful.

In the future, I hope the devs get rid of the long cooldown approach and build upon the original formula. Were skills were on short cds and elites weren’t super powerful skills but skills that you formed your build around.

Aza.2105:

elites weren’t super powerful skills but skills that you formed your build around.

That would be lovely.

Allot of the times taking an elite skills is worse than being able to grab another utility.
That is downright silly.

alcopaul.2156:

In this day and age, you gotta please the spectators. Most athletes do it for the spectators. IDK what goes into the minds of Lebron and Kobe when they play basketball. I’m thinking that they must be bored because its only passing a ball in a circular ring. That must be boring? right? but no. They get paid because of the sponsorship which is because there are billions of people watching them buying their merchandise and idolizing and trying to imitate them. Money, fame, respect in exchange of putting a ball inside a circular ring. What do the athletes have to do? Promote the game. Speak well of the league. Do they complain about the boringness of shooting kitten for almost one year and almost do it everyday? you don’t see that. (People here don’t know how to sugarcoat or force swallow just to make the scene good and grow it.)

Wow. Just wow. You’ve obviously never played a sport before, or at least played one you actually liked. While fame is obviously a great motive for reaching the NBA, you really actually truly believe what you’re typing?

Furthermore, you expect the discontented PvP community to just force swallow all these terrible changes (or terrible lack of changes) and ANet’s horrible, out of touch priorities IN A GAME??? This is a kitten video game, and one without a monthly fee to boot. I’ve no obligation to force myself to play a game that not only has failed to deliver the solid content that so many expected, especially when the devs have shown absolutely no sign of our opinions being heard.

You should probably note that I’m not at all against making this game exciting/viewable for spectators. NOBODY in this thread is. At all.

What we ARE concerned with is the fact that GW2’s PvP lacks depth. What’s more, it lacks the amazingly unique and strategically satisfying experience of its predecessor, although this is more forgiveable. Many of us were actually expecting more than just a copy paste of GW1 mechanics; we were excited for the new things ANet was bringing to the table. The problem is, practically ALL of these changes have done nothing but water down all that was so incredible about their previous. I refuse to believe you actually think that simply making a terribly lackluster game more exciting to watch is preferable over making a terribly lackluster game more exciting to play. Who gives a kitten if someone’s good at World of Charrcraft: Modern Warfare 2???

I’m actually pretty convinced that you’re an elaborate troll now, so I’m wrapping this up even though I have a lot more to say. (Most) sports are wildly popular because they are exciting to play. Yes, they are exciting to watch as well, but you don’t think that that doesnt have everything to do with the experience of playing it?

No, forget it, I’m done.

Aza.2105:

I’ve seen players mention on several occasions that gw2 is a very fast paced game. I agree with this to a extent. Unlike gw1 which were the max cooldown to skills were 60secs. Gw2 gives us the traditional mmorpg approach with “powerful skills and long cooldowns”.

Because of this, gw1 gameplay actually feels more fluid, since there isn’t a long interval between rotating skill cooldowns. To make matters worse, many of the skills with the longest cooldowns tend to be the least powerful.

In the future, I hope the devs get rid of the long cooldown approach and build upon the original formula. Were skills were on short cds and elites weren’t super powerful skills but skills that you formed your build around.

Also +1ing this.

I’ve heard suggestions around these forums to make elite skills in this game MORE powerful, to the point where popping an elite skill could be a game changer. I couldn’t think of a worst move away from meaningful gameplay. The people that haven’t left this game demonstrate why they haven’t left with every new post – they don’t actually KNOW what quality PvP plays like.

But seriously, the elite skill system was mint in GW1. The elite skill being a slightly more powerful skill that laid the foundation of the rest of the build was genius. It was versatile. It was unique. It made AWESOME gameplay.

Muramasma.1570:

Wow. Just wow. You’ve obviously never played a sport before, or at least played one you actually liked. While fame is obviously a great motive for reaching the NBA, you really actually truly believe what you’re typing?

Sports are just a hobby, for most, sure. But for athletes, it becomes their bread and butter. I don’t know but you seem oblivious to the fact that athletes earn millions from doing simple objectives like putting a ball inside a ring. it can be a serious thing. i’m sure you’re aware of professional e-sport gamers.

Furthermore, you expect the discontented PvP community to just force swallow all these terrible changes (or terrible lack of changes) and ANet’s horrible, out of touch priorities IN A GAME??? This is a kitten video game, and one without a monthly fee to boot. I’ve no obligation to force myself to play a game that not only has failed to deliver the solid content that so many expected, especially when the devs have shown absolutely no sign of our opinions being heard.

you’re assuming that you’re the influential part of the community. i just watched a tourney and it reached 4k. people are playing pvp and they are in the ladder. people are speaking highly of this game. people like you just bring the negative vibe down here and can’t appreciate its beauty because you’re used to old stuffs. The old stuff is still there. /reinstall GW1.

What we ARE concerned with is the fact that GW2’s PvP lacks depth. What’s more, it lacks the amazingly unique and strategically satisfying experience of its predecessor, although this is more forgiveable. Many of us were actually expecting more than just a copy paste of GW1 mechanics; we were excited for the new things ANet was bringing to the table. The problem is, practically ALL of these changes have done nothing but water down all that was so incredible about their previous. I refuse to believe you actually think that simply making a terribly lackluster game more exciting to watch is preferable over making a terribly lackluster game more exciting to play. Who gives a kitten if someone’s good at World of Charrcraft: Modern Warfare 2???

the scene is still starting to grow because of community support, streaming and whatnot. And since there is only 1 game mode, a.net could certainly add another game mode in the future, if deemed necessary. IDK why it was released with 1 game mode but i think it’s a strategic decision to do so, in their part.

I’m actually pretty convinced that you’re an elaborate troll now, so I’m wrapping this up even though I have a lot more to say. (Most) sports are wildly popular because they are exciting to play. Yes, they are exciting to watch as well, but you don’t think that that doesnt have everything to do with the experience of playing it?

No, forget it, I’m done.

no man, you dismiss my opinions because i’m from MATH and i’m just an avid spectator and evaluate something through careful observation. and now i’m a troll.

i loled.

alcopaul.2156:

Muramasma.1570:

Wow. Just wow. You’ve obviously never played a sport before, or at least played one you actually liked. While fame is obviously a great motive for reaching the NBA, you really actually truly believe what you’re typing?

Sports are just a hobby, for most, sure. But for athletes, it becomes their bread and butter. I don’t know but you seem oblivious to the fact that athletes earn millions from doing simple objectives like putting a ball inside a ring. it can be a serious thing. i’m sure you’re aware of professional e-sport gamers.

Furthermore, you expect the discontented PvP community to just force swallow all these terrible changes (or terrible lack of changes) and ANet’s horrible, out of touch priorities IN A GAME??? This is a kitten video game, and one without a monthly fee to boot. I’ve no obligation to force myself to play a game that not only has failed to deliver the solid content that so many expected, especially when the devs have shown absolutely no sign of our opinions being heard.

you’re assuming that you’re the influential part of the community. i just watched a tourney and it reached 4k. people are playing pvp and they are in the ladder. people are speaking highly of this game. people like you just bring the negative vibe down here and can’t appreciate its beauty because you’re used to old stuffs. The old stuff is still there. /reinstall GW1.

What we ARE concerned with is the fact that GW2’s PvP lacks depth. What’s more, it lacks the amazingly unique and strategically satisfying experience of its predecessor, although this is more forgiveable. Many of us were actually expecting more than just a copy paste of GW1 mechanics; we were excited for the new things ANet was bringing to the table. The problem is, practically ALL of these changes have done nothing but water down all that was so incredible about their previous. I refuse to believe you actually think that simply making a terribly lackluster game more exciting to watch is preferable over making a terribly lackluster game more exciting to play. Who gives a kitten if someone’s good at World of Charrcraft: Modern Warfare 2???

the scene is still starting to grow because of community support, streaming and whatnot. And since there is only 1 game mode, a.net could certainly add another game mode in the future, if deemed necessary. IDK why it was released with 1 game mode but i think it’s a strategic decision to do so, in their part.

I’m actually pretty convinced that you’re an elaborate troll now, so I’m wrapping this up even though I have a lot more to say. (Most) sports are wildly popular because they are exciting to play. Yes, they are exciting to watch as well, but you don’t think that that doesnt have everything to do with the experience of playing it?

No, forget it, I’m done.

no man, you dismiss my opinions because i’m from MATH and i’m just an avid spectator and evaluate something through careful observation. and now i’m a troll.

i loled.

You don’t really get it do you. For every pro sports teams there are 10’s of teams that make nothing. Pro sport players are the minority in every single sport on the planet.