Guild Wars 2

At any rate, lets get back on topic of the balance. The personal stuff is getting old. I’m playing gw2 like you because i want the game to be better so i can enjoy 10 years in it like i did wow.

None of your changes will make the game better.

You’re turning guardian into an unkillable tank that also manages to full heal every second and deals massive damage to enemies through either power or conditions and also applies every boon in the game all the time.

You’re turning ranger into an unkillable tank that also manages to full heal every second and deals massive damage to enemies through either power or conditions and also applies every boon in the game all the time.

Your effort is admirable, but I would rather have Karl balancing the game. And that’s saying something. Sorry.

ventusthunder.5067:

None of your changes will make the game better.

You’re turning guardian into an unkillable tank that also manages to full heal every second and deals massive damage to enemies through either power or conditions and also applies every boon in the game all the time.

You’re turning ranger into an unkillable tank that also manages to full heal every second and deals massive damage to enemies through either power or conditions and also applies every boon in the game all the time.

Your effort is admirable, but I would rather have Karl balancing the game. And that’s saying something. Sorry.

Did you stop to read the math behind these suggestions?

I am purposing that the guardian will be just short (100-200k) of what ele and druid do in a match (in healing). Other classes (like ranger and rev) already have perma 33% Dr. So what are you basing these conclusions on?

Anari.2137:

ventusthunder.5067:

None of your changes will make the game better.

You’re turning guardian into an unkillable tank that also manages to full heal every second and deals massive damage to enemies through either power or conditions and also applies every boon in the game all the time.

You’re turning ranger into an unkillable tank that also manages to full heal every second and deals massive damage to enemies through either power or conditions and also applies every boon in the game all the time.

Your effort is admirable, but I would rather have Karl balancing the game. And that’s saying something. Sorry.

Did you stop to read the math behind these suggestions?

I am purposing that the guardian will be just short (100-200k) of what ele and druid do in a match (in healing). Other classes (like ranger and rev) already have perma 33% Dr. So what are you basing these conclusions on?

Your comparison is ele using clerics with heal bot build while guardian is using marauders

Keadron.9570:

Anari.2137:

ventusthunder.5067:

None of your changes will make the game better.

You’re turning guardian into an unkillable tank that also manages to full heal every second and deals massive damage to enemies through either power or conditions and also applies every boon in the game all the time.

You’re turning ranger into an unkillable tank that also manages to full heal every second and deals massive damage to enemies through either power or conditions and also applies every boon in the game all the time.

Your effort is admirable, but I would rather have Karl balancing the game. And that’s saying something. Sorry.

Did you stop to read the math behind these suggestions?

I am purposing that the guardian will be just short (100-200k) of what ele and druid do in a match (in healing). Other classes (like ranger and rev) already have perma 33% Dr. So what are you basing these conclusions on?

Your comparison is ele using clerics with heal bot build while guardian is using marauders

Not even Close. I Put a full healing build in with Dwaya, and Magi Amulet.
Its 1800 Healing.

Its not even close to what an ele does.

I can’t wait for op to get to Mesmer so we can all have a good chuckle about it. If he can’t figure out guardian, imagine how he’s going to do trying to figure out Mesmer…

Please post your API so we can see what experience you have on all these classes you’re trying to “balance”.

Good god, I just went to look at some your “Ranger Rework”s:

Anari.2137:

Healing Spring: Cool down reduced to 15 seconds.
Shouts: All shouts have 30 second CD.
Survival: All Survival abilities have 20 Second CD
Signet: All Signets have 25 Second CD.
Traps: All Traps have 15 Second Cd.

Nice. A waterfield that removes condis every 15 second. More SnR from reduced shouts. Stunbreaks every 20 seconds from survival skill CD. ALL SIGNETS HAVE 25 seconds cooldown? So rangers get Signet of Stone every 25 seconds! And a full team condi clear every 25 seconds. And a KD every 15 seconds from traps.

The rest of your post is no better. What is it, 4 seconds of retaliation every 10 seconds?

Is this a joke?

bloodpyrope.8630:

Please post your API so we can see what experience you have on all these classes you’re trying to “balance”.

Good god, I just went to look at some your “Ranger Rework”s:

Anari.2137:

Healing Spring: Cool down reduced to 15 seconds.
Shouts: All shouts have 30 second CD.
Survival: All Survival abilities have 20 Second CD
Signet: All Signets have 25 Second CD.
Traps: All Traps have 15 Second Cd.

Nice. A waterfield that removes condis every 15 second. More SnR from reduced shouts. Stunbreaks every 20 seconds from survival skill CD. ALL SIGNETS HAVE 25 seconds cooldown? So rangers get Signet of Stone every 25 seconds! And a full team condi clear every 25 seconds. And a KD every 15 seconds from traps.

The rest of your post is no better. What is it, 4 seconds of retaliation every 10 seconds?

Is this a joke?

No its not a joke.

Faster cool downs, creates more interaction between the player and the GUI, which means higher retention rates, and more competitive play.

If something is op because of the reduction in the Cd’s, then it should get nerfed. It’s not rocket science.

Main abilities should be 5-10 seconds CD for Melee, 10-15 Seconds for range. Melee should have more cc, and range should have more utility. For exaple, a Ele will have lots of speed boosts but a warrior will have roots to stop them to catch up. The reason why the melee get the cc is because it allows them to catch the range kiters, as opposed to the range kiting while perma-ccing.

These are basics in balance

Anari.2137:

These are basics in balance

You heard it here first folks. Skill spam is the quintessence of perfect balance! No need to question this, this guy is clearly an expert, he said so himself!

Anari.2137:

Faster cool downs, creates more interaction between the player and the GUI, which means higher retention rates, and more competitive play.

I’d like a source on that please. More like reduced cooldowns=more mindless spamming off cooldown=less skilled play. Whatever happened to counting cooldowns and dodging critical skills?

Also, please post your API so we can see your vast experience on these classes you are attempting to balance.

bloodpyrope.8630:

Anari.2137:

Faster cool downs, creates more interaction between the player and the GUI, which means higher retention rates, and more competitive play.

I’d like a source on that please. More like reduced cooldowns=more mindless spamming off cooldown=less skilled play. Whatever happened to counting cooldowns and dodging critical skills?

Also, please post your API so we can see your vast experience on these classes you are attempting to balance.

Did you really just ask for metrics proving pushing buttons means more interaction with the game?

And then seriously go off by contradicting that statement in your first sentence to reply to that exact point?

Rolls eyes

No wonder why i am running circles around you guys. And you think you have a grasp on balance because you want everything to be what you want, what is good for you, but not for the other 85% of the game? Give me a break.

In the eyes of any studio Casuals > you hardcore players. So get over it.

Fay.2357:

Anari.2137:

These are basics in balance

You heard it here first folks. Skill spam is the quintessence of perfect balance! No need to question this, this guy is clearly an expert, he said so himself!

20-30 seconds is not spam, its just not waiting for 3 minute cd for an effect in battle to take place.

And thank you for your kind words, they make me blush wink

Anari.2137:

Fay.2357:

Anari.2137:

These are basics in balance

You heard it here first folks. Skill spam is the quintessence of perfect balance! No need to question this, this guy is clearly an expert, he said so himself!

20-30 seconds is not spam, its just not waiting for 3 minute cd for an effect in battle to take place.

And thank you for your kind words, they make me blush wink

mm sure, just hurry up and get to mesmer, I want my share of chuckles!

Anari.2137:

Did you really just ask for metrics proving pushing buttons means more interaction with the game?

No, I asked for a source on the “higher retention rates, and more competitive play.”

Still waiting on that API…

Fay.2357:

Anari.2137:

Fay.2357:

Anari.2137:

These are basics in balance

You heard it here first folks. Skill spam is the quintessence of perfect balance! No need to question this, this guy is clearly an expert, he said so himself!

20-30 seconds is not spam, its just not waiting for 3 minute cd for an effect in battle to take place.

And thank you for your kind words, they make me blush wink

mm sure, just hurry up and get to mesmer, I want my share of chuckles!

In my opinion Mesmer needs a huge redesign.
I dislike that all of it is about “clones” i want to see specs that are about doing things like Time bubbles, Invisibility, etc.

Next will be Elementalist (probably after i go eat in a few)

bloodpyrope.8630:

Anari.2137:

Did you really just ask for metrics proving pushing buttons means more interaction with the game?

No, I asked for a source on the “higher retention rates, and more competitive play.”

Still waiting on that API…

From near the beginning of this thread.

Anapxist.5314:

Just add topic starter to friend in game with accaunt tag, and you will see he have 1300 a.p. Yes pvp only players didn’t have much a.p. in general, but 1300. Really. And if you search for his post’s in forum you will see he start them about month ago. If we add here poor game mechanic understanding and his wrong class rework suggestions we can have a result. He is new player, maybe 2 month in this game End of story

Make it like i do. If he is up with a post. Look at it. Laugh your kitten of. And thats all. Dont try to discuss. Its useless.

Om Im.7863:

bloodpyrope.8630:

Anari.2137:

Did you really just ask for metrics proving pushing buttons means more interaction with the game?

No, I asked for a source on the “higher retention rates, and more competitive play.”

Still waiting on that API…

From near the beginning of this thread.

Anapxist.5314:

Just add topic starter to friend in game with accaunt tag, and you will see he have 1300 a.p. Yes pvp only players didn’t have much a.p. in general, but 1300. Really. And if you search for his post’s in forum you will see he start them about month ago. If we add here poor game mechanic understanding and his wrong class rework suggestions we can have a result. He is new player, maybe 2 month in this game End of story

But he said he was a game design expert! You’re clearly insinuating that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, and that can’t be right because he told us that he was extremely experienced!

bloodpyrope.8630:

Anari.2137:

Did you really just ask for metrics proving pushing buttons means more interaction with the game?

No, I asked for a source on the “higher retention rates, and more competitive play.”

Still waiting on that API…

magical unicorns have the metrics

Keep waiting, It will come.. Maybe when you go to sleep.

I always found there was very rarely a moment of idle time where you could only autoattack. At the same time though there is a long wait between specific skills. This I find more the root of the problem as there is a lack of secondary skill gating for most classes. Having some type of energy or mana system allows classes the flexibility of spending that resource to target specific threats while potentially leaving themselves more vulnerable to other effects. This allows a character to maintain at least a decent coverage against condition heavy threats or stun heavy threats while using a balanced build.

Right now utilities get grossly overpowered by the effects they aim to mitigate so instead a large portion of the mitigation occurs passively from traits. So I agree the cooldown on a lot of utilities could come down but with the addition of a gating resource mechanic and a large tone down of passive traits filling the same role as utilities.

Fourth.1567:

I always found there was very rarely a moment of idle time where you could only autoattack. At the same time though there is a long wait between specific skills. This I find more the root of the problem as there is a lack of secondary skill gating for most classes. Having some type of energy or mana system allows classes the flexibility of spending that resource to target specific threats while potentially leaving themselves more vulnerable to other effects. This allows a character to maintain at least a decent coverage against condition heavy threats or stun heavy threats while using a balanced build.

Right now utilities get grossly overpowered by the effects they aim to mitigate so instead a large portion of the mitigation occurs passively from traits. So I agree the cooldown on a lot of utilities could come down but with the addition of a gating resource mechanic and a large tone down of passive traits filling the same role as utilities.

Its really best that the 6-9 Abilities serve as stronger version of the main abilities, with lower cool downs.

So if the main abilities heal for 1500 HP, and Damage for 1500, with 5-10 Cd’s then the 6-9 Abilities should heal for 5000-8000 every 20-30 seconds.

The reason you want it to be like this is because 0-10 second Cds provide a important point of making you feel like your controlling the combat, and should make up around 60-70% of your output, but the rest of it is to be used to time your nukes, counter nukes etc, which is where the time of 20-30 seconds come in.

Anything more then that and your talking about once use every few battles (depending on how evenly matched the teams are). so if you keep the 6-9 abilities low, you keep the game flowing.

If the stability in the game works out to be like wow (Which it would if it was well balanced) then you slightly improve the 6-9 abilities to be 10-20% (which is 10-20% over the max potential rotation) over tuned and tune them up from that point until where they are not breaking the game, but they are making combat not stay static like in wow. This way Gw2 Keeps its moba like combat, but has the balance system like wow does. It will be excellent.

Anari.2137:

Fourth.1567:

I always found there was very rarely a moment of idle time where you could only autoattack. At the same time though there is a long wait between specific skills. This I find more the root of the problem as there is a lack of secondary skill gating for most classes. Having some type of energy or mana system allows classes the flexibility of spending that resource to target specific threats while potentially leaving themselves more vulnerable to other effects. This allows a character to maintain at least a decent coverage against condition heavy threats or stun heavy threats while using a balanced build.

Right now utilities get grossly overpowered by the effects they aim to mitigate so instead a large portion of the mitigation occurs passively from traits. So I agree the cooldown on a lot of utilities could come down but with the addition of a gating resource mechanic and a large tone down of passive traits filling the same role as utilities.

Its really best that the 6-9 Abilities serve as stronger version of the main abilities, with lower cool downs.

So if the main abilities heal for 1500 HP, and Damage for 1500, with 5-10 Cd’s then the 6-9 Abilities should heal for 5000-8000 every 20-30 seconds.

The reason you want it to be like this is because 0-10 second Cds provide a important point of making you feel like your controlling the combat, and should make up around 60-70% of your output, but the rest of it is to be used to time your nukes, counter nukes etc, which is where the time of 20-30 seconds come in.

Anything more then that and your talking about once use every few battles (depending on how evenly matched the teams are). so if you keep the 6-9 abilities low, you keep the game flowing.

If the stability in the game works out to be like wow (Which it would if it was well balanced) then you slightly improve the 6-9 abilities to be 10-20% (which is 10-20% over the max potential rotation) over tuned and tune them up from that point until where they are not breaking the game, but they are making combat not stay static like in wow. This way Gw2 Keeps its moba like combat, but has the balance system like wow does. It will be excellent.

In GW2 lots of professions DON’T use their utility slots for stronger versions of their mainhand weapons. Often, the utility of these skills are too strong to be on a 20 second cooldown. Life saving ‘oh crap’ buttons, long cooldown & game changing effects that you need to track/counter. Portal. Slick Shoes. Lightning Flash. Search and Rescue. Shadowstep.

It’s kind of like trying to put a square in the circle’ hole when you generalize the relationship between every mainhand weapon and utility set…

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Backfire_effect

I remember when we strated discussing you were open for reason. You even agreed with some points I made.
However the more people come in here and try to convince you that you might actually be wrong (not possible, I know), the more you start to bunker yourself and the more convinced of your own ideas you become.
Coincidence?
Oh and: Try to find 10 PvP players on this forum who think of themselves as ‘casuals’

I give the OP credit. If you want to invest your time coming up with answers that will help bring balance to our game my hats off to you. However, it’s a little naïve to think Anet doesn’t know what the existing problems are with balance, or how to fix them. Everything in GW2 is done by design. The “elite” specs are so, because Anet wants and needs to sell expansions. My opinion is the elite specs need to be tuned so they are not “elite”, but in line with the core specializations. Why is revenant op? Because it was introduced with HoTs plain and simple. It’s their new “baby”.

What concerns me is that I expect we’ll deal with severe imbalance every time a new expansion is released if they are in fact going to introduce more specializations. My opinion, no more professions and no more “elite” specs. Make balance a long term priority and introduce future expansions with more playable content and less “features”. Gliding, elite specs, guild halls etc…