Guild Wars 2

sophiewhite.3149:

mrauls.6519:

Were you trying to help balance Guardian when it was in the pits? ~.~

What do you find unbalanced about the current DH? The fact it can sustain itself? Finally kite…? Guardian still has its downsides. If enemies know not to step into a trap, it can really mess with a Guardian. I understand not every time a trap is placed it’ll be avoidable, but that just means they used a trap effectively. I do wish the trap play style could be replaced with something else, but that’s all AN has given us.

I just hope AN lets this blow over. In my eyes, right now Guardian is viable. Definitely not OP… If you really want to convince me Guardian is OP… Upload a video of yourself against a formidable DH or two… All of these screenshots people are posting don’t mean anything without any context backing them up

had a friend who mains a guardian decide he was gonna pick up his guardian again this season. switched to dh meta build and wrecked every game we went into. stomped enemy teams into the ground unless the entire team focused him. you see people queing up as dh so much there is 3 4 or even 5 in a game at a time. a “viable” class doesnt do this. a op class does. im not saying my friend is bad. im simply stating the class is so easy to play and do well that you dont even need skill to play it.i get it. gaurdian sucked in pvp for the longest time and your afraid of going back to that.but changes are needed.

Who was getting wrecked? New players? Like I told the other guy, I want to see gameplay of these guys. I want to see who they’re beating. I’m not afraid of Guardian sucking again, I’m tired of people complaining.

Like I’ve said before, Arena Net knows Guardian was in a bad spot before, and buffed it accordingly… People need to practice on their mains

Had 2 other DH on my team + war + necro
Had War, Ele, Thief, Necro, Ranger, on other team.

Holy kittenballs… the DH on my team died to Every… Single.. 1v1 fight in the match. I just can’t comprehend it…. they each had that crappy Dragon’s Maw elite and were incredibly glassy.. I just can’t even..

If matchmaking tries to match that 1 or 2 high mmr with 3 or 4 low mmr players.. then it’s a failed system. From what I’ve seen, Season 3 matchmaking was 10x better this ridiculousness.

DH is far from overpowered when you have them dying to Necros, Thieves, and Ele’s on point =/

Saiyan.1704:

Had 2 other DH on my team + war + necro
Had War, Ele, Thief, Necro, Ranger, on other team.

Holy kittenballs… the DH on my team died to Every… Single.. 1v1 fight in the match. I just can’t comprehend it…. they each had that crappy Dragon’s Maw elite and were incredibly glassy.. I just can’t even..

If matchmaking tries to match that 1 or 2 high mmr with 3 or 4 low mmr players.. then it’s a failed system. From what I’ve seen, Season 3 matchmaking was 10x better this ridiculousness.

DH is far from overpowered when you have them dying to Necros, Thieves, and Ele’s on point =/

They just weren’t using the right build.

mrauls.6519:

Were you trying to help balance Guardian when it was in the pits? ~.~

What do you find unbalanced about the current DH? The fact it can sustain itself? Finally kite…? Guardian still has its downsides. If enemies know not to step into a trap, it can really mess with a Guardian. I understand not every time a trap is placed it’ll be avoidable, but that just means they used a trap effectively. I do wish the trap play style could be replaced with something else, but that’s all AN has given us.

I just hope AN lets this blow over. In my eyes, right now Guardian is viable. Definitely not OP… If you really want to convince me Guardian is OP… Upload a video of yourself against a formidable DH or two… All of these screenshots people are posting don’t mean anything without any context backing them up

I get what you are saying here, not every guardian wants to play the trap/symbolic build but clearly it is the strongest build and that’s why it’s so popular. I have no problems with traps I just think adjustments need to be made, they have a very long duration while having very short CD’s. I play guard you play guard and we both know if we are on point we are sitting on traps and by the time people show up we have more traps ready to throw down again.

Can guards still be pushed off point? sure, but it’s not going to be easy and it’s not going to happen fast. Are guardians the most OP? no, but there is a reason why they are the most played class this season much like other classes were in season’s past. Casual players don’t want to log hours upon hours if they don’t need to to get what they want. That’s why we don’t see 4 or more necros a game, thiefs a game, revs a game, ele’s a game, rangers a game etc. Season 4 is the season of the guardian so best we all get use to it.

Velimere.7685:

They just weren’t using the right build.

I know you’re trying to help an all, but if DH died of necro then your build definitely won’t help with the condis…

I wouldn’t be surprised a lot of people are playing them.

Since shortly after HoT launch Guardians saw 0 representation in high level tournaments and extremely small representation in higher level divisions.
Even in the mid-ranges people were throwing abuse around to anyone playing a Guardian because it was sub-par.

Now that it’s actually been buffed to be equal to other professions and competitive of course people want to play their Guardian characters again!

There has been 8 months before July 26th when people didn’t want to play them, or others didn’t want you to play one.

ToF had an internal timer added and its duration reduced from 9s to 6s.
The initial trigger damage was reduced from 66% to 50%. Trap Dazes reduced by 50%.
PoB & Maw got a 25% cooldown nerf. True Shot damage was reduced by 20% in April.

Just remember where community PvP perceptions were only months ago

Tournament list 1 Tournament list 2

Malediktus.3740:

To be honest this new meta is the worst one since HoT got released, so it deserves a new name.

This is when the post loses all credibility

The problem is not traps or blocks/invuln/condi removal individually. The problem is how off the ratio between survivability and the ability to land high dps/cc is compared to other professions. What should be looked into is the DHs myriad of blocks/invuln and healing.

Ezrael.6859:

I wouldn’t be surprised a lot of people are playing them.

Since shortly after HoT launch Guardians saw 0 representation in high level tournaments and extremely small representation in higher level divisions.
Even in the mid-ranges people were throwing abuse around to anyone playing a Guardian because it was sub-par.

Now that it’s actually been buffed to be equal to other professions and competitive of course people want to play their Guardian characters again!

There has been 8 months before July 26th when people didn’t want to play them, or others didn’t want you to play one.

ToF had an internal timer added and its duration reduced from 9s to 6s.
The initial trigger damage was reduced from 66% to 50%. Trap Dazes reduced by 50%.
PoB & Maw got a 25% cooldown nerf. True Shot damage was reduced by 20% in April.

Just remember where community PvP perceptions were only months ago

Tournament list 1 Tournament list 2

guardians werent buffed much. every other class got major nerfs.

sophiewhite.3149:

Ezrael.6859:

I wouldn’t be surprised a lot of people are playing them.

Since shortly after HoT launch Guardians saw 0 representation in high level tournaments and extremely small representation in higher level divisions.
Even in the mid-ranges people were throwing abuse around to anyone playing a Guardian because it was sub-par.

Now that it’s actually been buffed to be equal to other professions and competitive of course people want to play their Guardian characters again!

There has been 8 months before July 26th when people didn’t want to play them, or others didn’t want you to play one.

ToF had an internal timer added and its duration reduced from 9s to 6s.
The initial trigger damage was reduced from 66% to 50%. Trap Dazes reduced by 50%.
PoB & Maw got a 25% cooldown nerf. True Shot damage was reduced by 20% in April.

Just remember where community PvP perceptions were only months ago

Tournament list 1 Tournament list 2

guardians werent buffed much. every other class got major nerfs.

Actual weapon damage got a rather significant buff.

Traps were actually nerfed (minorly), taking the focus off bunkering and more towards an involved-dps build. Gone are the days of seeing every guard ever running 4 traps, instead they’re running 1 or 2 for ground control and healing, and condi cleanse and burst/mobility in the other 2 slots. overall DH lethality has gone up significantly without a corresponding hit to their (already significant) sustain.

They are the only class currently that can do a mostly-glass-cannon build and not get absolutely destroyed every 1v2 due to a rather high amount of passive mitigation/avoidance.

Coupled with the related issue of class stacking (even with the nerfs, 2 DH’s worth of traps will 100-0 anybody that gets pulled/pushed/noskilled into them) they’re a bit over the top. Not outrageously so, but a bit.

Lucred.1802:

sophiewhite.3149:

Ezrael.6859:

I wouldn’t be surprised a lot of people are playing them.

Since shortly after HoT launch Guardians saw 0 representation in high level tournaments and extremely small representation in higher level divisions.
Even in the mid-ranges people were throwing abuse around to anyone playing a Guardian because it was sub-par.

Now that it’s actually been buffed to be equal to other professions and competitive of course people want to play their Guardian characters again!

There has been 8 months before July 26th when people didn’t want to play them, or others didn’t want you to play one.

ToF had an internal timer added and its duration reduced from 9s to 6s.
The initial trigger damage was reduced from 66% to 50%. Trap Dazes reduced by 50%.
PoB & Maw got a 25% cooldown nerf. True Shot damage was reduced by 20% in April.

Just remember where community PvP perceptions were only months ago

Tournament list 1 Tournament list 2

guardians werent buffed much. every other class got major nerfs.

Actual weapon damage got a rather significant buff.

Traps were actually nerfed (minorly), taking the focus off bunkering and more towards an involved-dps build. Gone are the days of seeing every guard ever running 4 traps, instead they’re running 1 or 2 for ground control and healing, and condi cleanse and burst/mobility in the other 2 slots. overall DH lethality has gone up significantly without a corresponding hit to their (already significant) sustain.

They are the only class currently that can do a mostly-glass-cannon build and not get absolutely destroyed every 1v2 due to a rather high amount of passive mitigation/avoidance.

Coupled with the related issue of class stacking (even with the nerfs, 2 DH’s worth of traps will 100-0 anybody that gets pulled/pushed/noskilled into them) they’re a bit over the top. Not outrageously so, but a bit.

1-handers have gotten a buff mainly because you can throw Scepter down then swap to Sword, stacking symbol damages. It’s why I insist on a 5% – 7% nerf on symbols.

Engineer’s reflect items shouldn’t reflect symbols, but they should definitely mitigate ground effects or gain a 10% damage reduction while their reflect shields are up.
Elementalists needs a slight dps buff overall in Air so they don’t get so facerolled by Guardians. They’re basically the middle ground between Thief and Revs anyways.

Other than that, DH is just popular due to Ele being off the grid and Engineers aren’t an issue anymore. We only need slight Rock vs Paper vs Scissors fixes. Anything more drastic and we’ll have items more unbalanced than before.

Velimere.7685:

The Guardian profession is balanced.

No other profession can do as little as 1,000,000 damage using Paladin’s Amulet.

you do realize trap damage to pets, minions, gyros all count as damage right?

passive mitigation = f3, f2, heal trap, mace 3, focus 5, shield 4, aegis trap, renewed focus, medis

i guess passive mitigation means whatever we want it to mean now a days

Kuya.6495:

passive mitigation = f3, f2, heal trap, mace 3, focus 5, shield 4, aegis trap, renewed focus, medis

i guess passive mitigation means whatever we want it to mean now a days

What about Aegis passively every 10 seconds from unused F3?

What about the 808-1250 heal (depending on amulet) every 3 seconds from the elite signet?

What about the 400-550 heal (depending on amulet) every 3 seconds from unused F2?

What about the block integral to sword 3, the DH’s primary burst?

Lucred.1802:

Kuya.6495:

passive mitigation = f3, f2, heal trap, mace 3, focus 5, shield 4, aegis trap, renewed focus, medis

i guess passive mitigation means whatever we want it to mean now a days

What about Aegis passively every 10 seconds from unused F3?

What about the 808-1250 heal (depending on amulet) every 3 seconds from the elite signet?

What about the 400-550 heal (depending on amulet) every 3 seconds from unused F2?

What about the block integral to sword 3, the DH’s primary burst?

You demonstrate your knowledge of the class very poorly..also what the word passive meant. Besides the very nature of virtues is that they are passive and they have been since the start so complaining about them…anyways:

unused f3 isn’t every 10s…its every 40 or 30 when traited

the heal on the elite signet’s interval isnt every 3s…its every 10..besides its being terrible..

the resolve passive isn’t that strong..( 84 + 6% of healing power )

sword #3 isnt passive by nature because you have to use sword number 3 to gain the block…

Lucred.1802:

Kuya.6495:

passive mitigation = f3, f2, heal trap, mace 3, focus 5, shield 4, aegis trap, renewed focus, medis

i guess passive mitigation means whatever we want it to mean now a days

What about Aegis passively every 10 seconds from unused F3?

What about the 808-1250 heal (depending on amulet) every 3 seconds from the elite signet?

What about the 400-550 heal (depending on amulet) every 3 seconds from unused F2?

What about the block integral to sword 3, the DH’s primary burst?

jesus christ, you’re embarrassing yourself

Lucred.1802:

Kuya.6495:

passive mitigation = f3, f2, heal trap, mace 3, focus 5, shield 4, aegis trap, renewed focus, medis

i guess passive mitigation means whatever we want it to mean now a days

What about Aegis passively every 10 seconds from unused F3?

What about the 808-1250 heal (depending on amulet) every 3 seconds from the elite signet?

What about the 400-550 heal (depending on amulet) every 3 seconds from unused F2?

What about the block integral to sword 3, the DH’s primary burst?

…

Were you being sarcastic?

why is it the only people defending DH are the people who play it?

literally every single profession’s playerbase has a problem with DH and somehow everyone but them is wrong.

every single defense of DH comes down to “DONT STAND ON TRAPS/SYMBOLS” when this is a point-based game, or “WAIT UNTIL THEY HAVE NO COOLDOWNS” as if you can’t rotate perfectly all the defenses DH has.

the only way to kill a DH is to play Druid and we’re expected to think this is okay.

sinject.4607:

why is it the only people defending DH are the people who play it?

literally every single profession’s playerbase has a problem with DH and somehow everyone but them is wrong.

every single defense of DH comes down to “DONT STAND ON TRAPS/SYMBOLS” when this is a point-based game, or “WAIT UNTIL THEY HAVE NO COOLDOWNS” as if you can’t rotate perfectly all the defenses DH has.

the only way to kill a DH is to play Druid and we’re expected to think this is okay.

Pretty much.

sinject.4607:

why is it the only people defending DH are the people who play it?

literally every single profession’s playerbase has a problem with DH and somehow everyone but them is wrong.

every single defense of DH comes down to “DONT STAND ON TRAPS/SYMBOLS” when this is a point-based game, or “WAIT UNTIL THEY HAVE NO COOLDOWNS” as if you can’t rotate perfectly all the defenses DH has.

the only way to kill a DH is to play Druid and we’re expected to think this is okay.

I thought my post represented Dh pretty well. Buff Engi & Ele and nerf our 1-handers by a slight bit then slap dat kitten .

Engi is another class that needs nerfs. No way it can get any buffs.

sinject.4607:

why is it the only people defending DH are the people who play it?

It seems that these days pretty much everyone plays DH so I’m not sure what you mean. I play DH and I think it’s completely OP, but other classes are too.

When I play ele I usually take in more damage than I make so I play DH more now. When playing DH I do about 2-3 times more damage and the same healing. Something just doesn’t had up.

sinject.4607:

why is it the only people defending DH are the people who play it?

literally every single profession’s playerbase has a problem with DH and somehow everyone but them is wrong.

every single defense of DH comes down to “DONT STAND ON TRAPS/SYMBOLS” when this is a point-based game, or “WAIT UNTIL THEY HAVE NO COOLDOWNS” as if you can’t rotate perfectly all the defenses DH has.

the only way to kill a DH is to play Druid and we’re expected to think this is okay.

because the people that complain about it apparently has no clue what’s even on a guardian’s skill bar/trait list?

Xillllix.3485:

sinject.4607:

why is it the only people defending DH are the people who play it?

It seems that these days pretty much everyone plays DH so I’m not sure what you mean. I play DH and I think it’s completely OP, but other classes are too.

When I play ele I usually take in more damage than I make so I play DH more now. When playing DH I do about 2-3 times more damage and the same healing. Something just doesn’t had up.

well, Purification is a 9k heal, Meditations are like 5.9k, Wings of Resolve is 4.5k, Pure of Heart is 3.2k (each source of Aegis x 1), and then you have smaller heals like Writ of Persistence, Virtue of Resolve (Passive), and Selfless Daring.

the main problem imo is Purification. Compared to Shelter, the previous meta heal for Guardian, Purification provides literally double the healing on a 4 second shorter cooldown. “but that’s only if you walk on it!!” as if it that isn’t impossible in Conquest or against a DH that knows how to use their pull/teleports. I only wish Channeled Vigor was that much better than Withdraw.

Darknicrofia.2604:

because the people that complain about it apparently has no clue what’s even on a guardian’s skill bar/trait list?

weak effort. the vast majority of posts have been made by players that clearly know what they’re talking about, and then get yelled at by DH players with inane arguments that never actually address actual issues. your argument here, like most every other DH argument, is a fallacy.

i mean cmon, the OP of this thread even says he has 8000 hours on Guardian, and you’re trying to discredit him with this lame post?

sinject.4607:

Xillllix.3485:

sinject.4607:

why is it the only people defending DH are the people who play it?

It seems that these days pretty much everyone plays DH so I’m not sure what you mean. I play DH and I think it’s completely OP, but other classes are too.

When I play ele I usually take in more damage than I make so I play DH more now. When playing DH I do about 2-3 times more damage and the same healing. Something just doesn’t had up.

well, Purification is a 9k heal, Meditations are like 5.9k, Wings of Resolve is 4.5k, Pure of Heart is 3.2k (each source of Aegis x 1), and then you have smaller heals like Writ of Persistence, Virtue of Resolve (Passive), and Selfless Daring.

the main problem imo is Purification. Compared to Shelter, the previous meta heal for Guardian, Purification provides literally double the healing on a 4 second shorter cooldown. “but that’s only if you walk on it!!” as if it that isn’t impossible in Conquest or against a DH that knows how to use their pull/teleports. I only wish Channeled Vigor was that much better than Withdraw.

Darknicrofia.2604:

because the people that complain about it apparently has no clue what’s even on a guardian’s skill bar/trait list?

weak effort. the vast majority of posts have been made by players that clearly know what they’re talking about, and then get yelled at by DH players with inane arguments that never actually address actual issues. your argument here, like most every other DH argument, is a fallacy.

i mean cmon, the OP of this thread even says he has 8000 hours on Guardian, and you’re trying to discredit him with this lame post?

I have 8.6k hours on Guardian total, not including the other half of my time playing the other classes which brings me at 16.8k hours in game total. if he wants a arming time of 5 seconds on any sort of traps on DH the same would have to apply on thief and ranger. Such as thieves being able to use steal in mid trap cast to get the activation instantly.

The vast majority of player are raging about 3 different aspects of Guardian or different builds. people are complaining about one shots from Dragon’s Maw, PoB, ToF, and walking into them. Others are complaining about guard blocks, then go as far as posting incorrect information such as F3 passive proccing every 10 seconds, and saying things such as too many passive blocks, there are only 2 passive blocks I can think of, Hunter’s Determination, and Valorous Defense, you want to toss a Virtue/Shield of Courage in there, but be honest, how many times does that passive actually proc in any real fight? Other complaint is on point pressure from the symbol build with Writ of Persistence, which one hander symbols which are probably going to be shaved a bit in damage.

Edit: Also did you say Pure of heart is 3.2k heal per Aegis break? FYI no healing power Pure of heart heals for 600+, and with good healing power 1.2k per aegis destroyed. Selfless daring is about 150-200 healing without healing power.

The “problem” with Dragonhunters is that there are so many viable, slightly-different builds for them that their opponents keep losing track of what they’re actually dealing with.

Sartharina.3542:

The “problem” with Dragonhunters is that there are so many viable, slightly-different builds for them that their opponents keep losing track of what they’re actually dealing with.

Exactly

your team had 2 thieves that refused to swap into literally an entire team of class that has hard countered them since launch.

that’s a you problem, not a them problem.

One thief said he Had no other alts. So like i said BS matchmaking <—— Never said anyone was cheating or was bad. Point is dumb matchmaking.

abacusrex.6938:

GG. TY anet for such great matchups.

Dragonhunter is perfectly balanced. In fact, I have to use Paladin’s Amulet just to survive team fights when playing it. Just look at how much damage I took. It’s over 420,000.

Velimere.7685:

abacusrex.6938:

GG. TY anet for such great matchups.

Dragonhunter is perfectly balanced. In fact, I have to use Paladin’s Amulet just to survive team fights when playing it. Just look at how much damage I took. It’s over 420,000.

Never said it wasnt balanced. When you got maybe 2 support 3 tapper dh … GG Gah

Matchmaking, maybe some people dont got ALTS to switch to that they are good at . Who knows anet, who knows.

Anet needs to remove class stacking. Its no fun if there are 3 druids or 3 dhs in a team

I won’t argue against class stacking being a problem.

The inherent design of DH traps makes them a force multiplier that becomes exceedingly more hectic to deal with the more there are.

A single full trap DH is a stomp bait for anyone that knows how to play, but that DH being supported by 2 symbolic DHs that also packs ToF is problematic without coordination, which there rarely are in solo que.

Fixed the names sorry.

Get traps CD only after being hitted, and will have alot of players quitting DH trap spamming.

PvP is a joke… Get used to it… Ever since HoT was released you either play the current most powerful class or half the players in every match does… Remember necro, when there was a minimum of 4 per match with 6 being the average?

Honestly I can’t PvP anymore unless its just screwing around with some friends and we don’t care if we win or not… I just can’t take PvP seriously in this game anymore since balance obviously isn’t important whatsoever to Anet…

Lucentfir.7430:

sinject.4607:

Xillllix.3485:

sinject.4607:

why is it the only people defending DH are the people who play it?

It seems that these days pretty much everyone plays DH so I’m not sure what you mean. I play DH and I think it’s completely OP, but other classes are too.

When I play ele I usually take in more damage than I make so I play DH more now. When playing DH I do about 2-3 times more damage and the same healing. Something just doesn’t had up.

well, Purification is a 9k heal, Meditations are like 5.9k, Wings of Resolve is 4.5k, Pure of Heart is 3.2k (each source of Aegis x 1), and then you have smaller heals like Writ of Persistence, Virtue of Resolve (Passive), and Selfless Daring.

the main problem imo is Purification. Compared to Shelter, the previous meta heal for Guardian, Purification provides literally double the healing on a 4 second shorter cooldown. “but that’s only if you walk on it!!” as if it that isn’t impossible in Conquest or against a DH that knows how to use their pull/teleports. I only wish Channeled Vigor was that much better than Withdraw.

Darknicrofia.2604:

because the people that complain about it apparently has no clue what’s even on a guardian’s skill bar/trait list?

weak effort. the vast majority of posts have been made by players that clearly know what they’re talking about, and then get yelled at by DH players with inane arguments that never actually address actual issues. your argument here, like most every other DH argument, is a fallacy.

i mean cmon, the OP of this thread even says he has 8000 hours on Guardian, and you’re trying to discredit him with this lame post?

I have 8.6k hours on Guardian total, not including the other half of my time playing the other classes which brings me at 16.8k hours in game total. if he wants a arming time of 5 seconds on any sort of traps on DH the same would have to apply on thief and ranger. Such as thieves being able to use steal in mid trap cast to get the activation instantly.

The vast majority of player are raging about 3 different aspects of Guardian or different builds. people are complaining about one shots from Dragon’s Maw, PoB, ToF, and walking into them. Others are complaining about guard blocks, then go as far as posting incorrect information such as F3 passive proccing every 10 seconds, and saying things such as too many passive blocks, there are only 2 passive blocks I can think of, Hunter’s Determination, and Valorous Defense, you want to toss a Virtue/Shield of Courage in there, but be honest, how many times does that passive actually proc in any real fight? Other complaint is on point pressure from the symbol build with Writ of Persistence, which one hander symbols which are probably going to be shaved a bit in damage.

Edit: Also did you say Pure of heart is 3.2k heal per Aegis break? FYI no healing power Pure of heart heals for 600+, and with good healing power 1.2k per aegis destroyed. Selfless daring is about 150-200 healing without healing power.

Kappa

Aeolus.3615:

Get traps CD only after being hitted, and will have alot of players quitting DH trap spamming.

i can live with this as long as nothing else gets touched

Give DH traps the thief backstab treatment. They go on a longer than normal cd if you don’t successfully hit someone with them. That way when I’m inevitably forced to sprint away from every other fight on my daredevil, I can at least dodge over the point to get some consolation prize.

Either play a guardian or play a build that counters guardian… I’m pretty sure that’s PvP atm.

I fought a 5DH team with a 2 thief, 1 necro, 1 warr(me) and 1 druid team. We stomped them because we rotated better and our thieves picked their fights once they saw a DH was fighting either me or the druid and had blown defensives.

You fight multiple DH teams in a similar way to how you fought multiple necro teams in season 2. You split them up, gank them with superior numbers to ensure a quick kill and outrotate them because they have crappy map mobility. As long as you don’t feed the meat grinder(aka, rush mid and get blended by AOE) you should be able to win most of the time.

I had similar games the entire day yesterday vs 4-5 DH comps where this strat generally worked very well.

Lucentfir.7430:

I have 8.6k hours on Guardian total, not including the other half of my time playing the other classes which brings me at 16.8k hours in game total. if he wants a arming time of 5 seconds on any sort of traps on DH the same would have to apply on thief and ranger. Such as thieves being able to use steal in mid trap cast to get the activation instantly.

Even though this is a fine example of the false equivalency fallacy I’m 100% okay with this considering neither Druid nor Daredevil will ever use our absolutely horrible traps.

in fact you could give Druid/Daredevil traps a century long cooldown and it would have zero effect on how often they’re used, because nobody is using them in first place lmao.

how do you even have that much time invested and not already know this?

The vast majority of player are raging about 3 different aspects of Guardian or different builds. people are complaining about one shots from Dragon’s Maw, PoB, ToF, and walking into them. Others are complaining about guard blocks, then go as far as posting incorrect information such as F3 passive proccing every 10 seconds, and saying things such as too many passive blocks, there are only 2 passive blocks I can think of, Hunter’s Determination, and Valorous Defense, you want to toss a Virtue/Shield of Courage in there, but be honest, how many times does that passive actually proc in any real fight? Other complaint is on point pressure from the symbol build with Writ of Persistence, which one hander symbols which are probably going to be shaved a bit in damage.

Edit: Also did you say Pure of heart is 3.2k heal per Aegis break? FYI no healing power Pure of heart heals for 600+, and with good healing power 1.2k per aegis destroyed. Selfless daring is about 150-200 healing without healing power.

650 × 5 different unique sources of Aegis (activated once each) = 3.2k

3/10 attempt come back to me when you’re willing to address the actual imbalances of DH and not just stammering out “b-but people are complaining about traps” even though there’s validity in much of these arguments as well considering the inherent balance dynamic of traps in Conquest and how this was clearly disregarded in their design.

what you’re committing here is called the straw man fallacy.

please look up the basic logical fallacies before posting further. this goes out to all DH posters.

Well,
I play thief, 3-10 matches per day and already diamond.
Guardians is most easy to play class in pvp atm and its very good for point holding. When im tired from hardcore pvp (bad mood but have to play 3 matches) I just switch on guardian and spam traps.
People who have lack of skill, reaction, etc etc guardian is great choice. I think Anet wants to let everyone pvp and have chance to win. I have many friends over 50 in this game and they are happy how guardian works. So I like how pvp is made here.
Playing guardian already shows that you have lack of skill its all. and I don’t really have problem with them. I kill most of them even solo (+1 in 3-4 second).
Having good Necro/Engi/Druid is more important for me then Guardians.
(Poor English detected, yep no need to mention)

Saiyan.1704:

Kappa

sinject.4607:

Lucentfir.7430:

I have 8.6k hours on Guardian total, not including the other half of my time playing the other classes which brings me at 16.8k hours in game total. if he wants a arming time of 5 seconds on any sort of traps on DH the same would have to apply on thief and ranger. Such as thieves being able to use steal in mid trap cast to get the activation instantly.

Even though this is a fine example of the false equivalency fallacy I’m 100% okay with this considering neither Druid nor Daredevil will ever use our absolutely horrible traps.

in fact you could give Druid/Daredevil traps a century long cooldown and it would have zero effect on how often they’re used, because nobody is using them in first place lmao.

how do you even have that much time invested and not already know this?

The vast majority of player are raging about 3 different aspects of Guardian or different builds. people are complaining about one shots from Dragon’s Maw, PoB, ToF, and walking into them. Others are complaining about guard blocks, then go as far as posting incorrect information such as F3 passive proccing every 10 seconds, and saying things such as too many passive blocks, there are only 2 passive blocks I can think of, Hunter’s Determination, and Valorous Defense, you want to toss a Virtue/Shield of Courage in there, but be honest, how many times does that passive actually proc in any real fight? Other complaint is on point pressure from the symbol build with Writ of Persistence, which one hander symbols which are probably going to be shaved a bit in damage.

Edit: Also did you say Pure of heart is 3.2k heal per Aegis break? FYI no healing power Pure of heart heals for 600+, and with good healing power 1.2k per aegis destroyed. Selfless daring is about 150-200 healing without healing power.

650 × 5 different unique sources of Aegis (activated once each) = 3.2k

3/10 attempt come back to me when you’re willing to address the actual imbalances of DH and not just stammering out “b-but people are complaining about traps” even though there’s validity in much of these arguments as well considering the inherent balance dynamic of traps in Conquest and how this was clearly disregarded in their design.

what you’re committing here is called the straw man fallacy.

please look up the basic logical fallacies before posting further. this goes out to all DH posters.

Then why do you bring the matter of the OP being discredited or argued against for having 8k hours on guard and calling it a lame, I have 8,6k hours on my main class ,can prove it and discuss rational balancing? Moving on I know not many or even any of the traps are used on thief and ranger right now but you just further the point of biased balancing. You’re willing to back up a ridiculous change which would globally affect all utility skills just to nerf what DH has because “lol thief traps and ranger traps aren’t even used anyway lol!”

3.2k (each source of Aegis x 1),
That is what you typed out, FYI aegis stack in duration not stacks and if this is in reference towards Fragments of Faith, you have to walk over them to pick them up, and you can only pick them up if you don’t have aegis, not to mention if you lost aegis on top of one you would have to walk back over it because it won’t register if you do. You’re not guaranteed to pick up all 5 every single time.

I’ve seen various posts of complaints, people are complaining about one shots while the others are complaining about on point pressure from Symbols, and sustain on blocks and heals. I’ve already said I’m expecting some damage tuning on one hander symbols and other shavings but you seem to be on rather promoting some very outrageous changes rather then having rational balance discussion, and again you make it hard to take you seriously, with the way you post.

Adams.9217:

Well,
I play thief, 3-10 matches per day and already diamond.
Guardians is most easy to play class in pvp atm and its very good for point holding. When im tired from hardcore pvp (bad mood but have to play 3 matches) I just switch on guardian and spam traps.
People who have lack of skill, reaction, etc etc guardian is great choice. I think Anet wants to let everyone pvp and have chance to win. I have many friends over 50 in this game and they are happy how guardian works. So I like how pvp is made here.
Playing guardian already shows that you have lack of skill its all. and I don’t really have problem with them. I kill most of them even solo (+1 in 3-4 second).
Having good Necro/Engi/Druid is more important for me then Guardians.
(Poor English detected, yep no need to mention)

kitten , and they say i’m passive aggressive.

Lucentfir.7430:

Then why do you bring the matter of the OP being discredited or argued against for having 8k hours on guard and calling it a lame, I have 8,6k hours on my main class ,can prove it and discuss rational balancing? Moving on I know not many or even any of the traps are used on thief and ranger right now but you just further the point of biased balancing. You’re willing to back up a ridiculous change which would globally affect all utility skills just to nerf what DH has because “lol thief traps and ranger traps aren’t even used anyway lol!”

you’re making a huge leap in logic in comparing DH traps to Druid/Daredevil traps and you’re even admitting this when you say you know they’re going unused (gee wonder why). DH traps deserve special treatment because they are clearly special, hence why they’re the only traps in use in the entire game.

if Thief’s stealth attacks deserve special treatment because they’re “better” than other profession’s, the same can easily be said for DH’s traps.

I wasn’t the one saying all traps should be nerfed, you were. I’m simply stating that your ludicrous suggestion would make zero difference because our traps are already garbage and I wouldn’t mind at all making them more garbage if it meant DH nerfs.

3.2k (each source of Aegis x 1),
That is what you typed out, FYI aegis stack in duration not stacks and if this is in reference towards Fragments of Faith, you have to walk over them to pick them up, and you can only pick them up if you don’t have aegis, not to mention if you lost aegis on top of one you would have to walk back over it because it won’t register if you do. You’re not guaranteed to pick up all 5 every single time.

let’s play the counting game. I know you DH players hate it, but here it is:

1. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_of_Courage
2. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_of_Judgment
3. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Valorous_Defense
4. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hunter%27s_Determination
5. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protective_Reviver

Wow! Five!

I’m not even counting the additional Aegis from Hunter’s Determination’s FoF drop. so if you want to count those too, DH has 10 individual possible sources of Aegis. way to shoot your own argument in the foot.

I’ve seen various posts of complaints, people are complaining about one shots while the others are complaining about on point pressure from Symbols, and sustain on blocks and heals. I’ve already said I’m expecting some damage tuning on one hander symbols and other shavings but you seem to be on rather promoting some very outrageous changes rather then having rational balance discussion, and again you make it hard to take you seriously, with the way you post.

I’ve literally only promoted a rework to traps to nullify the unfair advantage they have in a Conquest-styled gamemode, a nerf to DH’s outright dumb amount of healing, and nerfs to symbols/one hand weaponsets.

what part of this is “outrageous”?

the part where I’m suggesting Purification not heal for double the amount of Shelter while being on a 4 second shorter cooldown because DH already has access to 14-15k of healing outside of their actual heal not to mention their high access to blocks/blinds/condi cleanses?

the part where I’m suggesting a nerf to the very thing you already claimed to be expecting a nerf to?

the part where I’m suggesting that DH stacking be nerfed because of the absurd way multiple DH traps interact in a teamfight?

…

you can throw around the word “rational” all you like buddy, but literally every post you’ve sent my way has had logical fallacies in them.

and what would you know, you finish this post off with ANOTHER fallacy. attacking me for the way i post rather than addressing the content of my posts is pretty indicative you have nothing left to respond with. but hey, I guess it’s cool when someone that agrees with you responds with a “funny” image macro and a twitch meme.

sinject.4607:

1. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_of_Courage
2. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_of_Judgment
3. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Valorous_Defense
4. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hunter%27s_Determination
5. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protective_Reviver

Wow! Five!

I’m not even counting the additional Aegis from Hunter’s Determination’s FoF drop. so if you want to count those too, DH has 10 individual possible sources of Aegis. way to shoot your own argument in the foot.

Other than HoT traps & shield changes, Guardian’s Aegis proc hasn’t change much. Thieves gets dodges, Warrior face tanks, Necro’s have a second health bar, we have blocks. It’s been this way since launch.

sinject.4607:

I’ve literally only promoted a rework to traps to nullify the unfair advantage they have in a Conquest-styled gamemode, a nerf to DH’s outright dumb amount of healing, and nerfs to symbols/one hand weaponsets.

what part of this is “outrageous”?

the part where I’m suggesting Purification not heal for double the amount of Shelter while being on a 4 second shorter cooldown because DH already has access to 14-15k of healing outside of their actual heal not to mention their high access to blocks/blinds/condi cleanses?

Traps are only an issue against pug players. In ESL, that’s not what they consider “OP” I assure you. Now, reduce the effectiveness of pugstompers ya, I can agree with you there. This is the “Purging Flames” and “Ring of Fire” scenario back in pre-HoT where Burns were an issue. Pugs simply couldn’t handle them and they complained.

Why are these things suddenly OP when S2 and S3 Dragonhunters had the same, unaltered, utilities and healings? I can list 4 reasons.
1) Popularity, 2) Ele nerfed, 3) Engi nerfed, 4) DH 1-handers got buffed.

Lastly, Traps are simply an easy target for players to call nerfs to even though they have functioned fine with little to no complaints in S2 & S3. We didn’t suddenly receive 15k more heals or dealt 3k more trap damages. That’s why your nerf list is wrong.

I have been a 1 year ranger main 2 year mesmer main and now am a guardian main. Mesmer is still strong yet I can waste every other class on mesmer litterally almost full hp (which is not ok) except maybe verses a bunker scrapper which stalemates 1 vs 1. Guardian however is a fast loss it is like going from god mode vs every class to weak on my main. Here is the irony. I swap to my guardian re-duel and win (Note I am using tourny builds during these duels).

Now playing what I feel is a decent guardian. I have Identified the sole problem with guardian. It is not their damage, their healing, their condition removal, any of that. It is 100% their casting speed. Meditations are instant and so is judgment.

I hope this proves insightful as to the issue. Right now guardian is the only class that can dish out 10k damage in utilities and passives instantly. This does not include weapon skills. This is not a damage issue ignore the number. It is the instant cast time. and unblockable nature of the daze/damage of Test of Faith. Smite condition is also instant. If these had a cast time they couldn’t be used instantly and simultaneously. This is the core issue with guardian not the damage. Simultaneous casting. They have the ability to use all their utilities while using a weapon skill without waiting or interrupting cast times. It would be ok if this was purely defensive but it is not. It is offensive. A very good guardian can near one shot 17k hp players with this kind of syncing of utilities. I am talking very specifically about the symbol/medi/trapper.

The best way to fix guardian is to simply give their utilities 1/4 second cast times each and allow players to block the f1 skill. (or telegraph it better because it is very fast) note that right now spear of justice pierces and is unblock-able so as soon as a player uses a duration block it is basically a free hit or free block disruption. Regardless, they need the following:

1. An actual cast time on utilities
2. A longer react-able f1 skill so players can react.

The reason it seems like guardians is strong is that players can’t counter play an instant skill Dodge is useless verses that. Especially when they are unblock-able. If they cannot react to it. They cannot dodge it. They can only get lucky. This is bad for competitive pvp as it takes skill from the game. This is why mesmer shatters were given 1/4 CD after shattering so they cannot quad shatter. Also it is telegraphed by clones running at you.

Again Players cannot counter play instant offensive skills .

sinject.4607:

-Text-

1. No where did I state i wanted all traps nerfed , if you read the OP he wants 5s arm time on DH Traps, or in his form of idea of changes. From the looks of your post you think it’s a rational idea, since someone else tries to discredit him and it’s suddenly a lame post. I’m baffled any decent player could think that would be a rational change. Even if it meant operating with the way other traps function, which also further proves my point of balance bias. You’d be willing to let those other traps fall more into garbage just because the you want a class nerfed.

2. So I’m guessing every single DH runs Shield and Honor. There’s no other variation that would swap out weapon sets, or use different traitlines like virtues, or zeal, or even radiance. So they always have 5 applications of aegis at hand. Okay it’s clearly the symbol build you’re after.

3. Your idea of reworking traps, like nuking it to 4k on use, and 4k on active, and you only get that 4k if they actually get damaged by it, that would make it the wonkiest hit or miss heal next to Arcane Brilliance. I’m perfectly fine with a shave to Purification though. Other things things towards working to fixing traps would be like fixing porting out of ToF so you don’t get hit as if you walked across it. Giving Traps a activate button, so you can’t just pop a new one after the set ones activates if it came off CD. Hunter’s Determination and Fragments of Faith getting a small cast time can work too while retaining its stun break like Well of Power does.