I have been a 1 year ranger main 2 year mesmer main and now am a guardian main. Mesmer is still strong yet I can waste every other class on mesmer litterally almost full hp (which is not ok) except maybe verses a bunker scrapper which stalemates 1 vs 1. Guardian however is a fast loss it is like going from god mode vs every class to weak on my main. Here is the irony. I swap to my guardian re-duel and win (Note I am using tourny builds during these duels).
Now playing what I feel is a decent guardian. I have Identified the sole problem with guardian. It is not their damage, their healing, their condition removal, any of that. It is 100% their casting speed. Meditations are instant and so is judgment.
I hope this proves insightful as to the issue. Right now guardian is the only class that can dish out 10k damage in utilities and passives instantly. This does not include weapon skills. This is not a damage issue ignore the number. It is the instant cast time. and unblockable nature of the daze/damage of Test of Faith. Smite condition is also instant. If these had a cast time they couldn’t be used instantly and simultaneously. This is the core issue with guardian not the damage. Simultaneous casting. They have the ability to use all their utilities while using a weapon skill without waiting or interrupting cast times. It would be ok if this was purely defensive but it is not. It is offensive. A very good guardian can near one shot 17k hp players with this kind of syncing of utilities. I am talking very specifically about the symbol/medi/trapper.
The best way to fix guardian is to simply give their utilities 1/4 second cast times each and allow players to block the f1 skill. (or telegraph it better because it is very fast) note that right now spear of justice pierces and is unblock-able so as soon as a player uses a duration block it is basically a free hit or free block disruption. Regardless, they need the following:
1. An actual cast time on utilities
2. A longer react-able f1 skill so players can react.The reason it seems like guardians is strong is that players can’t counter play an instant skill Dodge is useless verses that. Especially when they are unblock-able. If they cannot react to it. They cannot dodge it. They can only get lucky. This is bad for competitive pvp as it takes skill from the game. This is why mesmer shatters were given 1/4 CD after shattering so they cannot quad shatter. Also it is telegraphed by clones running at you.
Again Players cannot counter play instant offensive skills .
There was a time where Smite Condi did have a cast time, frankly no one really ever used it. Then they changed it to instant cast which was all for the better. Back in HoT beta Test of Faith didn’t have a initial damage proc or a target cap nor did it have boons. Spear of justice used to be slow and blockable, it would almost never land and really unreliable.
I’m just pointing out Players can’t counter play instant offensive skills I would even opt for damage increases to have these skills given reactable cast times. Besides this fix wouldn’t hurt pve too much. This is much better than a damage shave which would cripple the class. I have actually gotten used to playing it so the last thing I want with my DH time is DH made unviable. It really isn’t good for gameplay to have instant damage dealing skills that can be cast simultaneously with other skills that do have cast times. Even worse, it promotes the use of macros in ranked even if some get caught, not everyone does get caught if their smart. (I am heavily against macro’s as well)
those things didn’t suddenly become added in with the season 4 patch.
if you want to complain about the actual buffs guardians received, by all means complain about the sustain the symbolic build gives.
but don’t pretend like the same things that were part of the worst class in the game in season 3 are suddenly beyond broken now.
I have been a 1 year ranger main 2 year mesmer main and now am a guardian main. Mesmer is still strong yet I can waste every other class on mesmer litterally almost full hp (which is not ok) except maybe verses a bunker scrapper which stalemates 1 vs 1. Guardian however is a fast loss it is like going from god mode vs every class to weak on my main. Here is the irony. I swap to my guardian re-duel and win (Note I am using tourny builds during these duels).
Now playing what I feel is a decent guardian. I have Identified the sole problem with guardian. It is not their damage, their healing, their condition removal, any of that. It is 100% their casting speed. Meditations are instant and so is judgment.
I hope this proves insightful as to the issue. Right now guardian is the only class that can dish out 10k damage in utilities and passives instantly. This does not include weapon skills. This is not a damage issue ignore the number. It is the instant cast time. and unblockable nature of the daze/damage of Test of Faith. Smite condition is also instant. If these had a cast time they couldn’t be used instantly and simultaneously. This is the core issue with guardian not the damage. Simultaneous casting. They have the ability to use all their utilities while using a weapon skill without waiting or interrupting cast times. It would be ok if this was purely defensive but it is not. It is offensive. A very good guardian can near one shot 17k hp players with this kind of syncing of utilities. I am talking very specifically about the symbol/medi/trapper.
The best way to fix guardian is to simply give their utilities 1/4 second cast times each and allow players to block the f1 skill. (or telegraph it better because it is very fast) note that right now spear of justice pierces and is unblock-able so as soon as a player uses a duration block it is basically a free hit or free block disruption. Regardless, they need the following:
1. An actual cast time on utilities
2. A longer react-able f1 skill so players can react.The reason it seems like guardians is strong is that players can’t counter play an instant skill Dodge is useless verses that. Especially when they are unblock-able. If they cannot react to it. They cannot dodge it. They can only get lucky. This is bad for competitive pvp as it takes skill from the game. This is why mesmer shatters were given 1/4 CD after shattering so they cannot quad shatter. Also it is telegraphed by clones running at you.
Again Players cannot counter play instant offensive skills .
This guy gets it.
I want to counterplay a DH when I see him coming, but I recognize that it’s impossible for me to interrupt his offensive spam with my interrupts. Not because of any fault of my own but because the mechanical functionality of his loadout allow him to unload without fear of consequence.
If he just had cast times, even small ones, I could interrupt his attempts and shut him out of his offensive onslaught. Instead he gets the CC + DPS burst drop instead.
XD
I’ve seen various posts of complaints, people are complaining about one shots while the others are complaining about on point pressure from Symbols, and sustain on blocks and heals. I’ve already said I’m expecting some damage tuning on one hander symbols and other shavings but you seem to be on rather promoting some very outrageous changes rather then having rational balance discussion, and again you make it hard to take you seriously, with the way you post.
And I suspect this is because people can’t distinguish between guardians running 3 traps (For point control) and no meditations (for sustain/mobility), and those running Marauder (For damage) and those running Mender (For Sustain). So now we have people fighting Dragonhunters that, as far as they can tell, are running 2 Elites (Dragon’s Maw), 2 Heals (Shelter and Purification), 6 Utilities (FoF, ToF, PoB, CoP, JI, SC), and two amulets (Menders+Marauders)…. all on a single character! No wonder nobody can beat Dragonhunters! Oh yeah, and being able to swap between 3 1/2 weapon sets is also completely OP.
I hope they don’t nerf 1-hand symbols. They’re finally functional. That said, I don’t think giving all traps a 1/4 sec cast time would be a problem(But Meditations absolutely need the instant-cast), nor nerfing the triggered heal from Purification would be a problem – if only to let the other Guardian healing skills be able to compete.
(edited by Sartharina.3542)
those things didn’t suddenly become added in with the season 4 patch.
if you want to complain about the actual buffs guardians received, by all means complain about the sustain the symbolic build gives.
but don’t pretend like the same things that were part of the worst class in the game in season 3 are suddenly beyond broken now.
There was no DH presence in S3. How were people to judge these things when they weren’t in existence XD
Now they get to judge 2-4 DH’s per match ;D
(edited by Ross Biddle.2367)
so lets summarize….guardian haters:
(aegis haters)
-thieves which have 10k dmg in 1 attack (backstab) and 7k in other attacks (HS, Vault)
- warriors which have 10k in 1 attack (eviscerate, decapitate) and 7-9k in other attacks (arc divider, arcing slice)
I dont see any complaints from Druids, Scrappers, Reapers, Chronos, Eles, Revenants cause they pretty much negate traps and blocks and outsustain our dmg….
so lets summarize….guardian haters:
(aegis haters)
-thieves which have 10k dmg in 1 attack (backstab) and 7k in other attacks (HS, Vault)
- warriors which have 10k in 1 attack (eviscerate, decapitate) and 7-9k in other attacks (arc divider, arcing slice)I dont see any complaints from Druids, Scrappers, Reapers, Chronos, Eles, Revenants cause they pretty much negate traps and blocks and outsustain our dmg….
as a person who plays multiple classes but mains a necro i highly disagree.EVEN GUARDIANS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM BEING OP.
so lets summarize….guardian haters:
(aegis haters)
-thieves which have 10k dmg in 1 attack (backstab) and 7k in other attacks (HS, Vault)
- warriors which have 10k in 1 attack (eviscerate, decapitate) and 7-9k in other attacks (arc divider, arcing slice)I dont see any complaints from Druids, Scrappers, Reapers, Chronos, Eles, Revenants cause they pretty much negate traps and blocks and outsustain our dmg….
wat? you mean signet thief that dies insatntly when someone looks at them? nobody plays that
average thief backstab is 3k and they have by FAR worse survival than DHs…
Traps are NOT the problem, apart from possibly the healing trap (which heals too reliably given that its supposed to be a TRAP and IMO heaks for too much). This is readily confirmed by the fact that the meta builds usually only take one offensive trap – test of faith. The problem is how out of balance healing, block and invuln are.
Let’s just count the heals for fun. The meditrapper build gets about
2k heal from smite condition every 16 seconds AND
2k every 20-30 seconds from triggering smite with the trait AND
2k every 36 seconds from judges intervention AND
4k from wings of resolve every 26 seconds (actually less because renewed focus)
This is all with zero healing power and without even taking into account the actual healing skill (purification gives between 8 and 9k MORE on only a 24 (!) second cooldown). Add to this the fact that DH has some of the best access to blocks, ivnulnerabilities and condi removal and you should see the real problem here.
(edited by Tissitra.4153)
as a person who plays multiple classes but mains a necro i highly disagree.EVEN GUARDIANS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM BEING OP.
I am not complaining, I can beat any symbol guardian/dh in like 30 sec with my normal traited DH (gs + lb). Guardian just cant complain of being op cause we got 1 buff in like 3 years and guardians are overwhelmed by it. Buffing is something strange to us.
Traps are NOT the problem, apart from possibly the healing trap (which heals too reliably given that its supposed to be a TRAP and IMO heaks for too much). This is readily confirmed by the fact that the meta builds usually only take one offensive trap – test of faith. The problem is how out of balance healing, block and invuln are.
Let’s just count the heals for fun. The meditrapper build gets about
2k heal from smite condition every 16 seconds AND
2k every 20-30 seconds from triggering smite with the trait AND
2k every 36 seconds from judges intervention AND
4k from wings of resolve every 26 seconds (actually less because renewed focus)This is all with zero healing power and without even taking into account the actual healing skill (purification gives between 8 and 9k MORE on only a 24 (!) second cooldown). Add to this the fact that DH has some of the best access to blocks, ivnulnerabilities and condi removal and you should see the real problem here.
Guard have 11k base hp -> zerker gear is practically suicide.
Without 2k heal we die pretty quick.
Almost every class have access to unblockable skills.
You can die to condi dmg while being invulnerable plus its only 1 not more invulnerability.
65 sec cd 1 block – aegis (if not DH).
WoR pretty much gets interrupted every time with so manny cc’s in this new elite specs.
Class with no passive movement trait -> 4 years of traveler runes.
Warrior with no healing power gets full hp in 10 sec by spending rage.
Scrapper have 1000 hp/sec regen without healing power.
Herald -> infuse light -> full hp without healing power.
Druids -> heh what to say… so many heals without ehaling power.
Tempests -> walking heal machine without healing power.
Thief – > …
Necro -> go condi or go home.
Stop complaining, make guardian/dh try it yourself to see weaknesses or ask some friend who mains guardian to give you advices how to kill it.
as a person who plays multiple classes but mains a necro i highly disagree.EVEN GUARDIANS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM BEING OP.
I am not complaining, I can beat any symbol guardian/dh in like 30 sec with my normal traited DH (gs + lb). Guardian just cant complain of being op cause we got 1 buff in like 3 years and guardians are overwhelmed by it. Buffing is something strange to us.
Could be worse. Want to get nerfed in 99% of the patches for 4 years straight? Roll a thief.
Other than HoT traps & shield changes, Guardian’s Aegis proc hasn’t change much. Thieves gets dodges, Warrior face tanks, Necro’s have a second health bar, we have blocks. It’s been this way since launch.
the Aegis access, while inherently obnoxious thanks to the fact it’s largely passive, is less a problem than the healing it provides. DH could easily do with an increase in cooldown to things like Valorous Defense to slightly reduce the crazy amount of Aegis access.
Traps are only an issue against pug players. In ESL, that’s not what they consider “OP” I assure you. Now, reduce the effectiveness of pugstompers ya, I can agree with you there. This is the “Purging Flames” and “Ring of Fire” scenario back in pre-HoT where Burns were an issue. Pugs simply couldn’t handle them and they complained.
Why are these things suddenly OP when S2 and S3 Dragonhunters had the same, unaltered, utilities and healings? I can list 4 reasons.
1) Popularity, 2) Ele nerfed, 3) Engi nerfed, 4) DH 1-handers got buffed.Lastly, Traps are simply an easy target for players to call nerfs to even though they have functioned fine with little to no complaints in S2 & S3. We didn’t suddenly receive 15k more heals or dealt 3k more trap damages. That’s why your nerf list is wrong.
DH being overpowered is entirely thanks to onehanders + access to sustain + traps + Conquest all while being incredibly easy to play, and if Scrapper/Tempest were still as prominent as when they were overpowered, it would make zero difference at this point because onehanders are just objectively better than LB, GS, or Hammer.
you can keep repeating the whole DH mantra of “only bad players complain about traps” and “you’re wrong” while completely ignoring the validity of complaints, but you’re not accomplishing anything. you’re not an ESL pro that divines from the heavens what’s best for the overall game. stop acting like it. this is the entire crux of your argument and it’s a fallacy. go figure.
still waiting for justification as to why Purification shouldn’t be nerfed when it’s literally 2x as good as the next closest heal on a 4 second shorter cooldown, while DH already has 14k-15k of healing outside of their actual heal.
other than that, you’ve already agreed DH stacking needs to be toned down along with onehander damage. DH players are agreeing with me on 2/3rds of my argument and turning around calling it “outrageous” or “wrong”.
so lets summarize….guardian haters:
(aegis haters)
-thieves which have 10k dmg in 1 attack (backstab) and 7k in other attacks (HS, Vault)
- warriors which have 10k in 1 attack (eviscerate, decapitate) and 7-9k in other attacks (arc divider, arcing slice)I dont see any complaints from Druids, Scrappers, Reapers, Chronos, Eles, Revenants cause they pretty much negate traps and blocks and outsustain our dmg….
you’re completely wrong. not even worth getting into how wrong you are about literally everything in this post.
(edited by sinject.4607)
Could be worse. Want to get nerfed in 99% of the patches for 4 years straight? Roll a thief.
Well remember the times when stealth was overpowered as hell for 2 years (thieves also)?
you’re completely wrong. not even worth getting into how wrong you are about literally everything in this post.
As I said they need to remove class stacking (2 of each class max). But thieves are hardcountered by Dh/guardians like always. You just need to play right to win.
As for healing, DH/guard without heals and blocking is nothing. If you think DH/guard is OP, make one and join the club, if you can stay on it for a month…
I complained much about heralds, scrappers, reapers and chronos0, so I made them, learned a lot and now I don’t complain bout them. I just need to learn Druid and will beat them too, but too lazy + lack of spare time to do so.
increase cd on valorous defense
lol
you know what, go ahead nerf that. nerf dragons maw and procession of blades too. oh i mean, pls nooooo, not my passive aegis, noooo
Could be worse. Want to get nerfed in 99% of the patches for 4 years straight? Roll a thief.
Well remember the times when stealth was overpowered as hell for 2 years (thieves also)?
you’re completely wrong. not even worth getting into how wrong you are about literally everything in this post.
As I said they need to remove class stacking (2 of each class max). But thieves are hardcountered by Dh/guardians like always. You just need to play right to win.
As for healing, DH/guard without heals and blocking is nothing. If you think DH/guard is OP, make one and join the club, if you can stay on it for a month…I complained much about heralds, scrappers, reapers and chronos0, so I made them, learned a lot and now I don’t complain bout them. I just need to learn Druid and will beat them too, but too lazy + lack of spare time to do so.
Stealth was never “OP” in conquest….
Other than HoT traps & shield changes, Guardian’s Aegis proc hasn’t change much. Thieves gets dodges, Warrior face tanks, Necro’s have a second health bar, we have blocks. It’s been this way since launch.
the Aegis access, while inherently obnoxious thanks to the fact it’s largely passive, is less a problem than the healing it provides. DH could easily do with an increase in cooldown to things like Valorous Defense to slightly reduce the crazy amount of Aegis access.
Traps are only an issue against pug players. In ESL, that’s not what they consider “OP” I assure you. Now, reduce the effectiveness of pugstompers ya, I can agree with you there. This is the “Purging Flames” and “Ring of Fire” scenario back in pre-HoT where Burns were an issue. Pugs simply couldn’t handle them and they complained.
Why are these things suddenly OP when S2 and S3 Dragonhunters had the same, unaltered, utilities and healings? I can list 4 reasons.
1) Popularity, 2) Ele nerfed, 3) Engi nerfed, 4) DH 1-handers got buffed.Lastly, Traps are simply an easy target for players to call nerfs to even though they have functioned fine with little to no complaints in S2 & S3. We didn’t suddenly receive 15k more heals or dealt 3k more trap damages. That’s why your nerf list is wrong.
DH being overpowered is entirely thanks to onehanders + access to sustain + traps + Conquest all while being incredibly easy to play, and if Scrapper/Tempest were still as prominent as when they were overpowered, it would make zero difference at this point because onehanders are just objectively better than LB, GS, or Hammer.
There are numerous weapon sets in the game that goes unused. Whether or not a weapon set is better than another is besides the point. Nerfing Scraps and Ele to the point of getting demolished by DH when in S2 & S3 were the opposite, makes a HUGE difference in this argument. This is not a misconception.
you can keep repeating the whole DH mantra of “only bad players complain about traps” and “you’re wrong” while completely ignoring the validity of complaints, but you’re not accomplishing anything. you’re not an ESL pro that divines from the heavens what’s best for the overall game. stop acting like it. this is the entire crux of your argument and it’s a fallacy. go figure.
still waiting for justification as to why Purification shouldn’t be nerfed when it’s literally 2x as good as the next closest heal on a 4 second shorter cooldown, while DH already has 14k-15k of healing outside of their actual heal.
I’m not arguing how easy it is to make a pugstomper DH build. I posed in a similiar thread agreeing that this aspect was toxic in the casual scene and it’s entirely a trap mechanical issue. That said, Rev’s entire class mechanic skillsets is the worse. Only reason they aren’t complained is because power Rev have weaknesses unlike DH who got his 2 softcounters removed.
Purification, how many heals do you see that are 2x better than it’s core counter part? Again, besides the point. What’s factual is how our heals never changed in S2 and S3. Heck, our heals were never even brought up until now. Why do you think that is?
Guard have 11k base hp -> zerker gear is practically suicide.
Without 2k heal we die pretty quick.
Almost every class have access to unblockable skills.
You can die to condi dmg while being invulnerable plus its only 1 not more invulnerability.
65 sec cd 1 block – aegis (if not DH).
WoR pretty much gets interrupted every time with so manny cc’s in this new elite specs.
Class with no passive movement trait -> 4 years of traveler runes.
- Thieves and eles also have 11k hp on berserker, while ALSO being light armored and having next to no access to blocks. Talk about suicide…
- You WOULD die quicker without the heals – that is kind of the whole point. There is currently far too much healing on DH
- DH has some of the best condi removal and most pure condi builds don’t have much of a chance against it. You CAN’T die to condi if there are no condis on you
- you know full well that the majority of DH’s blocks are active: shield of wreath, shield of courage. Also, you have a lot more aegis than what you are claiming from running hunter’s determination
- Other professions (who DON’T have this many blocks) have a much bigger problem with interrupted heals. Also note how the ACTUAL healing skill (purification) only has 1/2 second cast time
- true that DH is not very mobile, but in combat still not bad due to leaps/teleport
Concerning healing: If you count the healing skills together, DH gets 0,8k hp per second if using everthing on cooldown. If you add to this regeneration, then you ARE in the ballpark of having 1k per second.
i feel that the high access to healing and blocking is a good trade off for the low hp pool (which is part of the reason the heals seem overwhelming when they heal a higher relative percentage of health relative to other classes) and low mobility.
a dh can’t disengage effectively so it has to be able to sustain on point.
i feel that the high access to healing and blocking is a good trade off for the low hp pool (which is part of the reason the heals seem overwhelming when they heal a higher relative percentage of health relative to other classes) and low mobility.
a dh can’t disengage effectively so it has to be able to sustain on point.
Firstly, it’s not like a DH’s low healthpool is unique. Secondly, a DH is far from the only class who can’t disengage. And thirdly, the ability to hold/contest point is far more important in conquest than the ability to run away.
authorities say the cause of them so won’t be a go in and the players that don’t no matter what trap trap trap for that reason alone I’m not making a guardian character guardian character classes don’t have any other kind of playing shape you have done all successfully find a solution now more tired than you did the only Guardian I’m also sorry for English
as a person who plays multiple classes but mains a necro i highly disagree.EVEN GUARDIANS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM BEING OP.
I am not complaining, I can beat any symbol guardian/dh in like 30 sec with my normal traited DH (gs + lb). Guardian just cant complain of being op cause we got 1 buff in like 3 years and guardians are overwhelmed by it. Buffing is something strange to us.
Could be worse. Want to get nerfed in 99% of the patches for 4 years straight? Roll a thief.
Honestly Cynz, a well played thief is still insanely OP.
Stealth, unmatched mobility, high burst, instant kill elite that skips downed state etc
The nerfs to thief were justified
i feel that the high access to healing and blocking is a good trade off for the low hp pool (which is part of the reason the heals seem overwhelming when they heal a higher relative percentage of health relative to other classes) and low mobility.
a dh can’t disengage effectively so it has to be able to sustain on point.
Firstly, it’s not like a DH’s low healthpool is unique. Secondly, a DH is far from the only class who can’t disengage. And thirdly, the ability to hold/contest point is far more important in conquest than the ability to run away.
So?
If there are classes with low hp pools but little sustain and no disengage, then that’s a problem for that class, not guardian (ele comes to mind). If conquest is more suited for sustain classes, that’s also not the fault of guardians. The problem there is that there is only one consistent game mode.
Guard have 11k base hp -> zerker gear is practically suicide.
Without 2k heal we die pretty quick.
Almost every class have access to unblockable skills.
You can die to condi dmg while being invulnerable plus its only 1 not more invulnerability.
65 sec cd 1 block – aegis (if not DH).
WoR pretty much gets interrupted every time with so manny cc’s in this new elite specs.
Class with no passive movement trait -> 4 years of traveler runes.- Thieves and eles also have 11k hp on berserker, while ALSO being light armored and having next to no access to blocks. Talk about suicide…
- You WOULD die quicker without the heals – that is kind of the whole point. There is currently far too much healing on DH
- DH has some of the best condi removal and most pure condi builds don’t have much of a chance against it. You CAN’T die to condi if there are no condis on you
- you know full well that the majority of DH’s blocks are active: shield of wreath, shield of courage. Also, you have a lot more aegis than what you are claiming from running hunter’s determination
- Other professions (who DON’T have this many blocks) have a much bigger problem with interrupted heals. Also note how the ACTUAL healing skill (purification) only has 1/2 second cast time
- true that DH is not very mobile, but in combat still not bad due to leaps/teleportConcerning healing: If you count the healing skills together, DH gets 0,8k hp per second if using everthing on cooldown. If you add to this regeneration, then you ARE in the ballpark of having 1k per second.
eles have best support out there, + heals + almost perma protection (40% on tempest) + invulnerabilities + teleports.
DD have blocks + poking 9k backstabs from stealth + steal attack that gives 4 SEC daze.
1kheal/sec while using all heal abilities, then what? waiting to die? lol.
I am sorry if you die to dh as a thief, I have encountered very good thieves out there who know their class, you should not play thief as a brawler. Thats first mistake from thieves perspective.
as a person who plays multiple classes but mains a necro i highly disagree.EVEN GUARDIANS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM BEING OP.
I am not complaining, I can beat any symbol guardian/dh in like 30 sec with my normal traited DH (gs + lb). Guardian just cant complain of being op cause we got 1 buff in like 3 years and guardians are overwhelmed by it. Buffing is something strange to us.
gaurdians didnt really get much of a buff. everyone else got nerfed hard.
(edited by abaddon.3290)
as a person who plays multiple classes but mains a necro i highly disagree.EVEN GUARDIANS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM BEING OP.
I am not complaining, I can beat any symbol guardian/dh in like 30 sec with my normal traited DH (gs + lb). Guardian just cant complain of being op cause we got 1 buff in like 3 years and guardians are overwhelmed by it. Buffing is something strange to us.
Could be worse. Want to get nerfed in 99% of the patches for 4 years straight? Roll a thief.
Honestly Cynz, a well played thief is still insanely OP.
Stealth, unmatched mobility, high burst, instant kill elite that skips downed state etc
The nerfs to thief were justified
Revs have higher burst while also being tanky enough to work well in larger fights.
That “instant kill elite” has a seconds worth of pre-req skills followed by a 1 and a half second cast time on the actual Finishing Blow. Not to mention to take that elite, you have to pass up on Basilisk Venom which is pretty much the only utility a thief can offer to their team at this point.
Stealth in general is only an issue if you’re just ridiculously lazy and unobservant. “Oh the D/P thief disappeared, one can only imagine what he’ll try next”. If the thief stealths mid fight they’re doing one of two things. They’re either preparing to backstab, or running away. With the new 1 sec cd on backstab, dodging or popping Aegis a second after they stealth will almost guarantee they don’t have enough stealth time to backstab you. This isn’t even considering that the only other “meta” thief build literally has 0 access to stealth.
Which leaves mobility. Yes, thieves have a ton of mobility. Heck, most builds even give up more damage just so they can be better at disengaging because at high level play, that’s 85% of your game. You can’t +1 to crack bunkers and there are only 1-2 favorable 1v1 matchups for thieves. You carry your weight not by fighting, but simply by running around and avoiding fights because if you spent more than 20-30 seconds in a fight while the enemy held a point far or home, you actually would’ve been better off just going there instead and going for a free decap.
A well played thief is definitely strong, but pretty much anything else played well could surpass them in every aspect other than mobility(and even Portal takes a fairly huge crack at that). That’s why you don’t see many thieves in Legend/Diamond, because everyone plays their class well and once everyone is close in skill level, thief falls off hard.
With all those crybabies another nerf is inevitable. So yeah, sure – increase trap cd and make them trigger only when somebody steps on them (also don’t forget to reduce their duration from 5 minutes to like 20 seconds), nerf true shot damage even more, reduce shout cooldowns. Do whatever you want Anet but please, make it PvP changes only. I really don’t want guardian to be in “good spot” for another year.
Let’s go through this one by one, shall we:
eles have best support out there, + heals + almost perma protection (40% on tempest) + invulnerabilities + teleports.
DD have blocks + poking 9k backstabs from stealth + steal attack that gives 4 SEC daze.
The best power ele build according to metabattle (while by no means meta since power ele meta does not appear to exist) is fresh air. In the standard version (air, earth arcane) you should be able to heal for about 9-11k hp within 30 seconds (3* cleansing wave 1* signet, 1* water trident + heals per cast from the signet). d/p thief should be able to heal for at best 10 – 11k in 30 seconds (chanelled vigor + steal healing +healing from evade). Now compare that to DH self heal in 30 seconds: about 19-20k. All the while having much more blocks/invuln than either of the other two.
Can you have perma protection ele? Maybe, but it is then a bunker build, so you would not compare it to power DH.
1kheal/sec while using all heal abilities, then what? waiting to die? lol.
Riveting. That is, until you remember that the TOTAL casting time of all the skills that heal a DH for a total of about 19k is 1,5 seconds (0,5 seconds purification, 1 second wings of resolve and the rest is instacast). DH heals are largely instacast and/or automatic from doing something else.
I am sorry if you die to dh as a thief, I have encountered very good thieves out there who know their class, you should not play thief as a brawler. Thats first mistake from thieves perspective.
While your concern is touching, it might be misplaced given that I don’t play thief – I think I may have at best 3-4 pvp matches completed on it out of thousands.
With all those crybabies another nerf is inevitable. So yeah, sure – increase trap cd and make them trigger only when somebody steps on them (also don’t forget to reduce their duration from 5 minutes to like 20 seconds), nerf true shot damage even more, reduce shout cooldowns. Do whatever you want Anet but please, make it PvP changes only. I really don’t want guardian to be in “good spot” for another year.
Welcome to the life of thief. The crybabies never disappear and nerfs every patch.
as a person who plays multiple classes but mains a necro i highly disagree.EVEN GUARDIANS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM BEING OP.
I am not complaining, I can beat any symbol guardian/dh in like 30 sec with my normal traited DH (gs + lb). Guardian just cant complain of being op cause we got 1 buff in like 3 years and guardians are overwhelmed by it. Buffing is something strange to us.
Could be worse. Want to get nerfed in 99% of the patches for 4 years straight? Roll a thief.
Honestly Cynz, a well played thief is still insanely OP.
Stealth, unmatched mobility, high burst, instant kill elite that skips downed state etc
The nerfs to thief were justifiedRevs have higher burst while also being tanky enough to work well in larger fights.
That “instant kill elite” has a seconds worth of pre-req skills followed by a 1 and a half second cast time on the actual Finishing Blow. Not to mention to take that elite, you have to pass up on Basilisk Venom which is pretty much the only utility a thief can offer to their team at this point.
Stealth in general is only an issue if you’re just ridiculously lazy and unobservant. “Oh the D/P thief disappeared, one can only imagine what he’ll try next”. If the thief stealths mid fight they’re doing one of two things. They’re either preparing to backstab, or running away. With the new 1 sec cd on backstab, dodging or popping Aegis a second after they stealth will almost guarantee they don’t have enough stealth time to backstab you. This isn’t even considering that the only other “meta” thief build literally has 0 access to stealth.
Which leaves mobility. Yes, thieves have a ton of mobility. Heck, most builds even give up more damage just so they can be better at disengaging because at high level play, that’s 85% of your game. You can’t +1 to crack bunkers and there are only 1-2 favorable 1v1 matchups for thieves. You carry your weight not by fighting, but simply by running around and avoiding fights because if you spent more than 20-30 seconds in a fight while the enemy held a point far or home, you actually would’ve been better off just going there instead and going for a free decap.
A well played thief is definitely strong, but pretty much anything else played well could surpass them in every aspect other than mobility(and even Portal takes a fairly huge crack at that). That’s why you don’t see many thieves in Legend/Diamond, because everyone plays their class well and once everyone is close in skill level, thief falls off hard.
Dont forget you are stunned/cant move while the thief uses that elite skill on you.
I wish elite specs were disabled for pvp, pvp was much better off without any of them.
i just laugh so hard when see players complaning about what Guardian do with their aegis….
as a person who plays multiple classes but mains a necro i highly disagree.EVEN GUARDIANS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM BEING OP.
I am not complaining, I can beat any symbol guardian/dh in like 30 sec with my normal traited DH (gs + lb). Guardian just cant complain of being op cause we got 1 buff in like 3 years and guardians are overwhelmed by it. Buffing is something strange to us.
Could be worse. Want to get nerfed in 99% of the patches for 4 years straight? Roll a thief.
Honestly Cynz, a well played thief is still insanely OP.
Stealth, unmatched mobility, high burst, instant kill elite that skips downed state etc
The nerfs to thief were justifiedRevs have higher burst while also being tanky enough to work well in larger fights.
That “instant kill elite” has a seconds worth of pre-req skills followed by a 1 and a half second cast time on the actual Finishing Blow. Not to mention to take that elite, you have to pass up on Basilisk Venom which is pretty much the only utility a thief can offer to their team at this point.
Stealth in general is only an issue if you’re just ridiculously lazy and unobservant. “Oh the D/P thief disappeared, one can only imagine what he’ll try next”. If the thief stealths mid fight they’re doing one of two things. They’re either preparing to backstab, or running away. With the new 1 sec cd on backstab, dodging or popping Aegis a second after they stealth will almost guarantee they don’t have enough stealth time to backstab you. This isn’t even considering that the only other “meta” thief build literally has 0 access to stealth.
Which leaves mobility. Yes, thieves have a ton of mobility. Heck, most builds even give up more damage just so they can be better at disengaging because at high level play, that’s 85% of your game. You can’t +1 to crack bunkers and there are only 1-2 favorable 1v1 matchups for thieves. You carry your weight not by fighting, but simply by running around and avoiding fights because if you spent more than 20-30 seconds in a fight while the enemy held a point far or home, you actually would’ve been better off just going there instead and going for a free decap.
A well played thief is definitely strong, but pretty much anything else played well could surpass them in every aspect other than mobility(and even Portal takes a fairly huge crack at that). That’s why you don’t see many thieves in Legend/Diamond, because everyone plays their class well and once everyone is close in skill level, thief falls off hard.
Dont forget you are stunned/cant move while the thief uses that elite skill on you.
I wish elite specs were disabled for pvp, pvp was much better off without any of them.
Stun breaks are a thing and without Basilisk Venom, thief really has no stun to open a fight with so once you realize they’re running Impact Strike you know exactly what to look out for. Finishing Blow should pretty much never come as a surprise unless its a huge clustered teamfight, the kind that thieves can’t fight in.
Not every class has dozens of stunbreaks ready all the time. Considering there is so much CC spam in the game there are so many things you need to stunbreak already.
Not every class has dozens of stunbreaks ready all the time. Considering there is so much CC spam in the game there are so many things you need to stunbreak already.
Who needs dozens when as I said, Impact Strike is literally the only disable you’ll have to look out for. You’re basically saying the ability is OP b/c people can’t be bothered to save a stunbreak, a universally important part of any build. At that point, that’s not even a skill/interaction being OP, that’s just misplaying. You can also dodge the first part of the of the skill to put the whole chain on cd, but that seemed really obvious so I neglected to mention it.
You also act like thief has a million stun breaks. All thieves run Shadowstep, most don’t run anymore than that. Bandit’s Defense is probably the only other stunbreak commonly used.
(edited by Necrotize.2974)
Not every class has dozens of stunbreaks ready all the time. Considering there is so much CC spam in the game there are so many things you need to stunbreak already.
I run 1 stunbreak (shs) and it is enough in most cases :P
Not every class has dozens of stunbreaks ready all the time. Considering there is so much CC spam in the game there are so many things you need to stunbreak already.
I run 1 stunbreak (shs) and it is enough in most cases :P
How could you be so foolish. Didn’t you know it’s the meta to run Shadowstep in two slots, trait for stunbreaking heal and steal, and use your other free utility slot for your second elite.
If enemies know not to step into a trap, it can really mess with a Guardian.
I just laughed my kitten off…. u jsut spam your trap below your kitten , if you enemy is a melee he has no chance, zero, how u expect him not to get close to you? and luckily we have symbols evrywhere too and the best aprt 60% of the time in wvw maps they bug under the surface so u cant even see you are tickin 1k in a symbol but back to traps.
They daze with isntant cast -.- your spear of “justice” is basically unevadable 80% of the time it interrupt my evade but im still a noob so i try to evade it, 4 days ago that skill pulled me over sm wall, and a month ago i entered into sm via portal i had spear on me guardian used it and pulled me back through the portal….. and here is my fav combo spear of “justice” —> places Test of Faith --—> pulling you into it —-> bamm 4k —-> knocking you back with trait bamm 3-4k again —> and true shot in your face not even my 12 sec stunbreaker can save my kitten rip…….
Oh also i know this is a pvp section but i stopped pvp because Dragonkitteners…(they were the last drop in my cup)
if anet thinking will not fix dh, my suggestion for them add a class stacking debuff. if a team play with 2 dh, dh’s needs to get a damage reduce debuff. (exept core specs.)
after i finish my wing achivments i will quit playing pvp because of the dragonhunters. and i will never come back. i promise. this game is done for me. this is not ending. always anet mess with pvp. and they’re minds are not on the ground. i cant imagine the upcoming elite specs. i wont be here for sure. sorry for english. sorry saltyness. but all is true.
The one good thing about this season is that nobody is complaining about the elementalists. Now everyone just pity us.
Traps are NOT the problem, apart from possibly the healing trap (which heals too reliably given that its supposed to be a TRAP and IMO heaks for too much). This is readily confirmed by the fact that the meta builds usually only take one offensive trap – test of faith. The problem is how out of balance healing, block and invuln are.
Let’s just count the heals for fun. The meditrapper build gets about
2k heal from smite condition every 16 seconds AND
2k every 20-30 seconds from triggering smite with the trait AND
2k every 36 seconds from judges intervention AND
4k from wings of resolve every 26 seconds (actually less because renewed focus)This is all with zero healing power and without even taking into account the actual healing skill (purification gives between 8 and 9k MORE on only a 24 (!) second cooldown). Add to this the fact that DH has some of the best access to blocks, ivnulnerabilities and condi removal and you should see the real problem here.
AND?
clases are designed whith a role in mind.
role of guardians are frontline damage absorvers. it can be doned whith an insane health pool and an insane toughness(pasive) or whit a frequent acces to healing and blocking (active), they prefered the second way . or¿you prefer guard designed whith a base health of 30k or more and a base toughness of 2k or more ?
Traps are NOT the problem, apart from possibly the healing trap (which heals too reliably given that its supposed to be a TRAP and IMO heaks for too much). This is readily confirmed by the fact that the meta builds usually only take one offensive trap – test of faith. The problem is how out of balance healing, block and invuln are.
Let’s just count the heals for fun. The meditrapper build gets about
2k heal from smite condition every 16 seconds AND
2k every 20-30 seconds from triggering smite with the trait AND
2k every 36 seconds from judges intervention AND
4k from wings of resolve every 26 seconds (actually less because renewed focus)This is all with zero healing power and without even taking into account the actual healing skill (purification gives between 8 and 9k MORE on only a 24 (!) second cooldown). Add to this the fact that DH has some of the best access to blocks, ivnulnerabilities and condi removal and you should see the real problem here.
AND?
clases are designed whith a role in mind.
role of guardians are frontline damage absorvers. it can be doned whith an insane health pool and an insane toughness(pasive) or whit a frequent acces to healing and blocking (active), they prefered the second way . or¿you prefer guard designed whith a base health of 30k or more and a base toughness of 2k or more ?
Guards weren’t initially designed to do massive aoe dmg while being stupidly tanky. Right now guards do more dmg than a thief while not being heavily punished in survivability department.
(edited by Cynz.9437)
Traps are NOT the problem, apart from possibly the healing trap (which heals too reliably given that its supposed to be a TRAP and IMO heaks for too much). This is readily confirmed by the fact that the meta builds usually only take one offensive trap – test of faith. The problem is how out of balance healing, block and invuln are.
Let’s just count the heals for fun. The meditrapper build gets about
2k heal from smite condition every 16 seconds AND
2k every 20-30 seconds from triggering smite with the trait AND
2k every 36 seconds from judges intervention AND
4k from wings of resolve every 26 seconds (actually less because renewed focus)This is all with zero healing power and without even taking into account the actual healing skill (purification gives between 8 and 9k MORE on only a 24 (!) second cooldown). Add to this the fact that DH has some of the best access to blocks, ivnulnerabilities and condi removal and you should see the real problem here.
AND?
clases are designed whith a role in mind.
role of guardians are frontline damage absorvers. it can be doned whith an insane health pool and an insane toughness(pasive) or whit a frequent acces to healing and blocking (active), they prefered the second way . or¿you prefer guard designed whith a base health of 30k or more and a base toughness of 2k or more ?
Guardians dont have insane health pool (we wont be able to do anything if increase health pool due damage outpu is sacrificed, damage is all that matters ), they has the lowest HP pool like a thief, and damage mitigation is a joke when a game all u need is to bomb frontliners and they will melt with all CC and boon rip + aoe.
Warrior is much sturdier than guardian for frontline and does much more damage.
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
Arena Net even said Guardian was in a bad spot, which is the reason for it being upgraded a little bit ~.~
Well.. anet is never wrong about balance. We all know that.
Its okay to say they’re too weak but we can’t say they’re too strong huh?
Just look at anets track history: They’ve overbuffed classes multiple times and have had to tone them down (usually overnerfing) in later patches.But again, since its YOUR class than its all fine and dandy.
I agree if you meant pre-expansion, but after that, Anet wrong pretty lot of time about balance. just note that you didn’t see op class on the right person and the right hand.
If you go legendary division you’ll gonna change your mind
as a person who plays multiple classes but mains a necro i highly disagree.EVEN GUARDIANS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM BEING OP.
I am not complaining, I can beat any symbol guardian/dh in like 30 sec with my normal traited DH (gs + lb). Guardian just cant complain of being op cause we got 1 buff in like 3 years and guardians are overwhelmed by it. Buffing is something strange to us.
Could be worse. Want to get nerfed in 99% of the patches for 4 years straight? Roll a thief.
Honestly Cynz, a well played thief is still insanely OP.
Stealth, unmatched mobility, high burst, instant kill elite that skips downed state etc
The nerfs to thief were justified
Stealth – easily countered by reveal, counter stealth, block, aoe, invr, passives
mobility – now druid, rev, mesmer can catch up thief, other class can one shot to blow the thief off
high burst – really? every other class even druid could deal higher dps and burst damage in pvp. Make sure our enemies are not a gonna stand like a dummy while thief is try something
instant kill elite – its only available if you ever, ever able to kill someone, and even if you did, It just too easy to countered. in matter of long cast time, everyone is gonna focus while you are performing it
(edited by Gibimo.2193)
if anet thinking will not fix dh, my suggestion for them add a class stacking debuff. if a team play with 2 dh, dh’s needs to get a damage reduce debuff. (exept core specs.)
Absolutely terrible idea. If you’re going to that extreme Anet should simply prevent class stacking just like their Tournament rulings.
Besides, I’ve frequently won with two thieves on my team, beating two DH’s on the other team. Stacked DH are not as OP as people make them out to be… you just got to play smart while having the right comp but I guess that’s too mainstream.
Other than HoT traps & shield changes, Guardian’s Aegis proc hasn’t change much. Thieves gets dodges, Warrior face tanks, Necro’s have a second health bar, we have blocks. It’s been this way since launch.
the Aegis access, while inherently obnoxious thanks to the fact it’s largely passive, is less a problem than the healing it provides. DH could easily do with an increase in cooldown to things like Valorous Defense to slightly reduce the crazy amount of Aegis access.
Traps are only an issue against pug players. In ESL, that’s not what they consider “OP” I assure you. Now, reduce the effectiveness of pugstompers ya, I can agree with you there. This is the “Purging Flames” and “Ring of Fire” scenario back in pre-HoT where Burns were an issue. Pugs simply couldn’t handle them and they complained.
Why are these things suddenly OP when S2 and S3 Dragonhunters had the same, unaltered, utilities and healings? I can list 4 reasons.
1) Popularity, 2) Ele nerfed, 3) Engi nerfed, 4) DH 1-handers got buffed.Lastly, Traps are simply an easy target for players to call nerfs to even though they have functioned fine with little to no complaints in S2 & S3. We didn’t suddenly receive 15k more heals or dealt 3k more trap damages. That’s why your nerf list is wrong.
DH being overpowered is entirely thanks to onehanders + access to sustain + traps + Conquest all while being incredibly easy to play, and if Scrapper/Tempest were still as prominent as when they were overpowered, it would make zero difference at this point because onehanders are just objectively better than LB, GS, or Hammer.
There are numerous weapon sets in the game that goes unused. Whether or not a weapon set is better than another is besides the point. Nerfing Scraps and Ele to the point of getting demolished by DH when in S2 & S3 were the opposite, makes a HUGE difference in this argument. This is not a misconception.
you can keep repeating the whole DH mantra of “only bad players complain about traps” and “you’re wrong” while completely ignoring the validity of complaints, but you’re not accomplishing anything. you’re not an ESL pro that divines from the heavens what’s best for the overall game. stop acting like it. this is the entire crux of your argument and it’s a fallacy. go figure.
still waiting for justification as to why Purification shouldn’t be nerfed when it’s literally 2x as good as the next closest heal on a 4 second shorter cooldown, while DH already has 14k-15k of healing outside of their actual heal.
I’m not arguing how easy it is to make a pugstomper DH build. I posed in a similiar thread agreeing that this aspect was toxic in the casual scene and it’s entirely a trap mechanical issue. That said, Rev’s entire class mechanic skillsets is the worse. Only reason they aren’t complained is because power Rev have weaknesses unlike DH who got his 2 softcounters removed.
Purification, how many heals do you see that are 2x better than it’s core counter part? Again, besides the point. What’s factual is how our heals never changed in S2 and S3. Heck, our heals were never even brought up until now. Why do you think that is?
i’m just gonna ignore the first part of your post because you’re essentially saying DH being balanced is dependent on Tempest/Scrapper being overpowered. i dunno how many times i have to repeat myself but this is the worst argument you can come up with. they literally brought one mechanic that countered one weaponset DHs don’t even use anymore, we are completely beyond this. the only other way this can be interpreted is you asking for only Tempest/Scrapper being able to beat DH which is probably even worse.
and for your second part…
there is literally no other HoT heal in the game that is that is 2x better than their core counterpart.
the majority of professions still use core heals.
anyways, I’m happy we’ve reached the point where you have to lie and recycle tired disproven arguments to defend your profession because this exemplifies just how intellectually bankrupt any defense of DH ends up being. You can keep saying “that’s besides the point” but that doesn’t actually make it true. Sorry.
Other than HoT traps & shield changes, Guardian’s Aegis proc hasn’t change much. Thieves gets dodges, Warrior face tanks, Necro’s have a second health bar, we have blocks. It’s been this way since launch.
the Aegis access, while inherently obnoxious thanks to the fact it’s largely passive, is less a problem than the healing it provides. DH could easily do with an increase in cooldown to things like Valorous Defense to slightly reduce the crazy amount of Aegis access.
Traps are only an issue against pug players. In ESL, that’s not what they consider “OP” I assure you. Now, reduce the effectiveness of pugstompers ya, I can agree with you there. This is the “Purging Flames” and “Ring of Fire” scenario back in pre-HoT where Burns were an issue. Pugs simply couldn’t handle them and they complained.
Why are these things suddenly OP when S2 and S3 Dragonhunters had the same, unaltered, utilities and healings? I can list 4 reasons.
1) Popularity, 2) Ele nerfed, 3) Engi nerfed, 4) DH 1-handers got buffed.Lastly, Traps are simply an easy target for players to call nerfs to even though they have functioned fine with little to no complaints in S2 & S3. We didn’t suddenly receive 15k more heals or dealt 3k more trap damages. That’s why your nerf list is wrong.
DH being overpowered is entirely thanks to onehanders + access to sustain + traps + Conquest all while being incredibly easy to play, and if Scrapper/Tempest were still as prominent as when they were overpowered, it would make zero difference at this point because onehanders are just objectively better than LB, GS, or Hammer.
There are numerous weapon sets in the game that goes unused. Whether or not a weapon set is better than another is besides the point. Nerfing Scraps and Ele to the point of getting demolished by DH when in S2 & S3 were the opposite, makes a HUGE difference in this argument. This is not a misconception.
you can keep repeating the whole DH mantra of “only bad players complain about traps” and “you’re wrong” while completely ignoring the validity of complaints, but you’re not accomplishing anything. you’re not an ESL pro that divines from the heavens what’s best for the overall game. stop acting like it. this is the entire crux of your argument and it’s a fallacy. go figure.
still waiting for justification as to why Purification shouldn’t be nerfed when it’s literally 2x as good as the next closest heal on a 4 second shorter cooldown, while DH already has 14k-15k of healing outside of their actual heal.
I’m not arguing how easy it is to make a pugstomper DH build. I posed in a similiar thread agreeing that this aspect was toxic in the casual scene and it’s entirely a trap mechanical issue. That said, Rev’s entire class mechanic skillsets is the worse. Only reason they aren’t complained is because power Rev have weaknesses unlike DH who got his 2 softcounters removed.
Purification, how many heals do you see that are 2x better than it’s core counter part? Again, besides the point. What’s factual is how our heals never changed in S2 and S3. Heck, our heals were never even brought up until now. Why do you think that is?
i’m just gonna ignore the first part of your post because you’re essentially saying DH being balanced is dependent on Tempest/Scrapper being overpowered. i dunno how many times i have to repeat myself but this is the worst argument you can come up with. they literally brought one mechanic that countered one weaponset DHs don’t even use anymore, we are completely beyond this. the only other way this can be interpreted is you asking for only Tempest/Scrapper being able to beat DH which is probably even worse.
and for your second part…
there is literally no other HoT heal in the game that is that is 2x better than their core counterpart.
the majority of professions still use core heals.
anyways, I’m happy we’ve reached the point where you have to lie and recycle tired disproven arguments to defend your profession because this exemplifies just how intellectually bankrupt any defense of DH ends up being. You can keep saying “that’s besides the point” but that doesn’t actually make it true. Sorry.
I don’t play other classes so that was my mistake there.
As for everything else… I’m telling you facts while you’re just labeling random items on DH being OP because you seem to think so.. that’s your fallacy.
So these are facts.
1. Engi and Ele used to give Guardians a hard time in S2 and S3. Now they don’t.
2. We were only slightly buffed in dps while our heals & traps remained the same.
Comps such as Ranger, Rev, Ele, Engi obliterated us. Now it’s just Rev & Ranger. That means we have more freedom in SPvP. These are facts, not presumed opinions.
Balance is dependent on every single class not just 1. – my presumed opinion based on these facts.
It’s not hard to comprehend but you still seem mindset on removing our Heals, Aegis or Trap damages when these weren’t S2 and S3 issues…. it’s a class balancing issue and right now, things are not fine in the Rock, Paper Scissors spectrum.
We can argue about this all day because the only thing we agree on is Passive Wars 2 and PugStomper build types. They should be removed but that’s never going to happen.
P.S
Burn Burst Guardians can get away with Litany of Wrath while some downright prefer Shelter’s aoe block. Maybe everyone else’s build diversity is worse than DH but that’s their own class diversity issue.
(edited by Saiyan.1704)
I don’t play other classes so that was my mistake there.
As for everything else… I’m telling you facts while you’re just labeling random items on DH being OP because you seem to think so.. that’s your fallacy.
So these are facts.
1. Engi and Ele used to give Guardians a hard time in S2 and S3. Now they don’t.
2. We were only slightly buffed in dps while our heals & traps remained the same.Comps such as Ranger, Rev, Ele, Engi obliterated us. Now it’s just Rev & Ranger. That means we have more freedom in SPvP. These are facts, not presumed opinions.
Balance is dependent on every single class not just 1. – my presumed opinion based on these facts.
It’s not hard to comprehend but you still seem mindset on removing our Heals, Aegis or Trap damages when these weren’t S2 and S3 issues…. it’s a class balancing issue and right now, things are not fine in the Rock, Paper Scissors spectrum.
I’m not labeling all these things as OP. I’m 100% fine with DH aegis uptime, blinds, blocks, longbow, gs, hammer, trap damage (w/out stacking), etc. even if they are lame. I’m just pointing out things like DH’s 15,000 healing access to show that DH really, really, REALLY doesn’t need an additional 9k heal. comprehensively, all I’m asking for is:
You’ve already agreed the first two nerfs are necessary. I’m just trying to prove that Purification needs a shave too, and I think I’ve done that.
I’m able to beat every profession in the game on Daredevil through outplaying them except for DH. I can kill Druids, Heralds, Beserkers, Scrappers (barely), Chronomancers, Reapers, Tempests; you name it. But for some reason, I can’t kill DH players. At first I was completely set on learning how to beat them, I’ve spent hours 1v1ing various DH friends and strangers trying to learn just exactly what I can do to beat them down to the smallest interactions, and it’s lead me to the realization that you just can’t. this is EXACTLY how it felt playing against d/d celestial elementalist, the only way to beat them is for them to simply mess up horribly. you can outplay them at every corner and still lose. this sentiment is a shared one across Daredevils, Chronomancers, Beserkers, Scrappers, Tempests, Reapers, and even Druids/Heralds which you wrongly claim are “counters”; being just able to beat your profession is not a counter.
Scrapper/Tempest, when they were overpowered, only “soft-countered” Longbow, not DH. both now outright lose to Symbol DH. stop bringing this up, it has zero relevancy and I don’t know why you keep bringing this up. It happened, we get it. it doesn’t matter anymore.
balance, as you stated, is about all professions; and yet you keep acting like having only Druid/Herald being able to beat DH is balanced. I just don’t get it.
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