Guild Wars 2

Primo.4385:

Hi I’m new to GW2 and I’m looking forward to competitive PVP.

hot joins
gets zerged
learns nothing

OK I’ve been playing for awhile and I think I’m ready for tournaments

joins free tourney
has no idea what is going on, has never played 5v5, is basically useless
gets crushed by premades

Looks like I need a dedicated team to play this game competitively

tries to find a team
only like 4 people in mists and 2 are AFK

Welp, that wasn’t fun sorry guys

logs ofkittenuninstalls

Sadly, this is pretty much my exact story over the last month or so, and I stuck it out way longer than any of my friends that bought the game with me.

I couldn’t agree more with what Pray and Jacobin have stated in their posts. Devs… please listen…

Why not just delete them if they just wanted to “cover it up”? Ban your accounts too.

Get a grip, the merged threads were nigh identical and repeating themselves.

That’s exactly what halo waypoint does. lol

rather than engage the community and outline steps of improvement, devs/mods are moving to cover-up mode. They’ve begun to merge all the angry and well-thought out posts regarding bad tPvP into one main post with an innocuous “GW2 PvP Feedback” subject line…

sigh.

Furbs.9054:

rather than engage the community and outline steps of improvement, devs/mods are moving to cover-up mode. They’ve begun to merge all the angry and well-thought out posts regarding bad tPvP into one main post with an innocuous “GW2 PvP Feedback” subject line…

sigh.

Yes it is concerning, but at least we got someone’s attention.

This issue is already practically at the top of Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/12vuqr/guild_wars_2_spvp_the_death_spiral_of_competitive/

Furbs.9054:

rather than engage the community and outline steps of improvement, devs/mods are moving to cover-up mode. They’ve begun to merge all the angry and well-thought out posts regarding bad tPvP into one main post with an innocuous “GW2 PvP Feedback” subject line…

sigh.

I guess that means if you have anything to say about GW2 PvP? Don’t post about it in the subforum. Find the subforum, then this thread, then make your unique thread topic in this thread as a new post. There should be no topics in the PvP subforums. Only this one thread.

Pure genius.

felivear.1536:

Marklar.2670:

I think it would be cool to see some dueling going on in the Mists and maybe some new maps that arent cap maps like maybe some 2v2 maps or 3v3 maps? Dont hate me its just a suggestion.

I mean, it shouldn’t even have to be suggested. It’s absolutely obvious that this should already be in the game. The mist should be this great place where PvP thrives, people discuss builds and practice against each other. I would say that currently you only hear crickets in the Mist, but I think even they left.

Yeah man i totally agree. I was supprised quite honeslty when me and my brother tried to duel when we first made our characters and there was not the option. And even more so when i entered the mists and just saw people running around using their abilities on nothing. Seriously Anet add dueling its kinda stupid that its not in the game i mean people are already using servers for dueling and other people are getting kicked cause they are trying to do reagular Spvp. I mean ur not gonna have anymore nerf X buff Y post than u already have just implement it in the game aready. I have had 3 people i know (my cousin and two of my freinds) not buy this game cause there is no option to duel. They are heavy pvpers i wonder how many others have the same thing going on with their freinds.

Jacobin.8509:

Yes it is concerning, but at least we got someone’s attention.

This issue is already practically at the top of Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/12vuqr/guild_wars_2_spvp_the_death_spiral_of_competitive/

You guys really need to chill with the “concern” about moderation. They merged two topics which covered and said the same thing: sPvP is messed up, here let outline the reasons. I read and posted in both of those threads and I felt like I was wasting my breath half repeating myself because there’s only so much you can say in a topic that has been covered, is being covered, and will continue to be covered when everyone decides its their turn to post their opinion (usually exactly the same one, since the problems are glaringly obvious).

Before I get my panties in a bunch (since, as I’ve stated, I know full well the growing pains the first GW went through to get to the “glory” everyone keeps quoting), I’m going to see what they do with this next update and I’m also going to give ptPvP (paid tournies) a little more than a single week on the heels of a massive event to show me whether or not it can foster some amount of competitive game play. In its current state… I doubt it can but if certain issues are ironed out (and from what I’ve seen of Jon’s recent in game forays, this seems to be the case with at least half of the glaringly obvious issues on the chopping block) and some form of matchmaking makes its way into this game, I might have reason to hope.

Take note, there’s a difference between being hopeful and being rational.

Meanwhile, Blackgate has some WvW ground to make up tonight.

Vena.8436:

You guys really need to chill with the “concern” about moderation. They merged two topics which covered and said the same thing: sPvP is messed up, here let outline the reasons. I read and posted in both of those threads and I felt like I was wasting my breath half repeating myself because there’s only so much you can say in a topic that has been covered, is being covered, and will continue to be covered when everyone decides its their turn to post their opinion (usually exactly the same one, since the problems are glaringly obvious).

Before I get my panties in a bunch (since, as I’ve stated, I know full well the growing pains the first GW went through to get to the “glory” everyone keeps quoting), I’m going to see what they do with this next update and I’m also going to give ptPvP (paid tournies) a little more than a single week on the heels of a massive event to show me whether or not it can foster some amount of competitive game play. In its current state… I doubt it can but if certain issues are ironed out (and from what I’ve seen of Jon’s recent in game forays, this seems to be the case with at least half of the glaringly obvious issues on the chopping block) and some form of matchmaking makes its way into this game, I might have reason to hope.

Take note, there’s a difference between being hopeful and being rational.

Meanwhile, Blackgate has some WvW ground to make up tonight.

Paid tournaments have been out for around 14 days and already have very long wait times. For newer teams that do not want to face pugs over and over this means they can have to wait for 20-40 minutes only to get stomped in less than 8 minutes by a hardcore team. Then they have to wait even longer for the next tournament.

Usually when a new game mode is released there is a ton of interest. Its very concerning that the newest addition to sPvP is already in such a lackluster state so soon which is why so many people are concerned.

A lot of people clearly don’t feel like sitting around while all their friends leave, so we make forum posts. Is it really necessary for all related ‘PvP Feedback’ to be in a single thread?

Yeah custom servers are a priority as it WILL MAKE YOU MONEY. I feel more are going to leave when the November patch hits. It is sad this game had potential to be amazing. YOU Anet said it was going to be now look, failing on the mark YOU set.

Primo.4385:

Hi I’m new to GW2 and I’m looking forward to competitive PVP.

hot joins
gets zerged
learns nothing

OK I’ve been playing for awhile and I think I’m ready for tournaments

joins free tourney
has no idea what is going on, has never played 5v5, is basically useless
gets crushed by premades

Looks like I need a dedicated team to play this game competitively

tries to find a team
only like 4 people in mists and 2 are AFK

Welp, that wasn’t fun sorry guys

logs ofkittenuninstalls

This is one of the most hilarious things I read lately. I adore you, mister!

And I agree.

Jacobin.8509:

Paid tournaments have been out for around 14 days and already have very long wait times. For newer teams that do not want to face pugs over and over this means they can have to wait for 20-40 minutes only to get stomped in less than 8 minutes by a hardcore team. Then they have to wait even longer for the next tournament.

Usually when a new game mode is released there is a ton of interest. Its very concerning that the newest addition to sPvP is already in such a lackluster state so soon which is why so many people are concerned.

Perhaps I worded my statement poorly, I meant that paid tournaments have existed for only a week after an event that had pretty much everyone’s attention. During Halloween just about everything else was less than populated if it wasn’t orange or Mad King related. WvW was low on pop, sPvP was low on pop, PvE end game zones were low on pop, because everyone and their dog was in one of the countless overflows in LA or the Labyrinth. Its hard for something brand new to take off when the player base is occupied with something temporary (this is simply how it works, people do what has a limited time on it). Not to mention that Halloween offered a very fun alternative to general sPvP and I, and many others, were busily doing that instead (much the same way that many people did the event PvP maps during GW1 much to the expense of most other formats being barren during that brief time).

So while it may well have been two weeks of hard time, that ignores the reality of the situation.

As for the imbalance of match making, this was more or less what GvG was like at the start of GW1 because, while matchmaking existed, winning only a few matches quickly drove you up the ranks and quickly put you against far better geared and prepared opponents. This is a problem that will always exist though it is exasperated in paid because its seemingly expected as an unwritten rule that stepping foot in there you expect the best of the best… which would be fine if there existed a more general middle ground for people to practice on which, unfortunately, is currently lacking (much as it was lacking in GW1 at its onset and didn’t really appear until over a year in when they added custom GvG).

Also this isn’t a new game mode. Its the same game mode with an upped ante. Its natural that, since it is not actually a new mode, that people who did not like the mode to begin with would not return for said mode anyway. Compound to this that people who were already good would remain good. I think the idea was to introduce an established competitive format for those who wanted it in from conquest. (But as always, its crippled because we lack proper matchmaking at a middle ground.)

Jacobin.8509:

A lot of people clearly don’t feel like sitting around while all their friends leave, so we make forum posts. Is it really necessary for all related ‘PvP Feedback’ to be in a single thread?

When most everyone says the same thing? Why does everyone need to create multiple threads. This thread hasn’t magically died or become irrelevant nor have your points of view that people (like myself) continue to talk about. You speak as if the moderators obliterated your point of view which is very much not the case, and it still exists here. The only difference is your name isn’t the first one on the topic. If people stop talking about your valid concerns then that can mean one of two things: they are no longer relevant and the thread you started would have died off anyway, or we’re all gone. :P So long as the topic of discussion is worth pursuing it will be pursued irregardless of whether or not it has its own little fancy forum post all to itself.

Hot Join should just be deleted so that everyone has to join 5vs5 free tournaments while at the same time they should add a matchmaking system for tournaments which doesn’t allow to get premades vs PuGs

So the people would learn how 5vs5 works … they would learn how to handle their class in tournaments … they would stop crying the forums with “nerf” threads since there wouldn’t be such a zerg anymore … there would be more people out there with tournament tickets so that they could group up and go for Paid tournaments which would lower the que times for paids.

hey devs. for the first time in awhile (generally pvp 7500 glory in a day without boosters – have a full time job so i can’t do more) i was playing early morning. in 3 (or 4?) different servers, the teams were something like 4/5 thieves+etc(war/mes/ele/guardetc) vs 4/5 thieves+etc. every thief was dagger dagger with full glass cannon and 25% movement signet. I have to admit, i had a lot of fun. I’ve never been in so many lobbies where so many people were so easy to kill. Then I’d see the scoreboard/ranks – 80% of them were sub rank 15. still, to a one, all ran the same spec as the few rank 30+ thieves in the game. and still to a one could put up a good fight (make me try to hard to kill them 1v1) despite the fact that they opened with steal cloak n dagger, attempted (or succeeded) a backstab, and heartseeker spammed from then on.

This kind of design – without fix so far – is actually kind of shameful. they all build the same, and are all relatively difficult to kill without getting downed myself because they get the 50% extra damage in downstate talent and suddenly can do 10k damage during their regular downstate rotation (2 to dodge initial stomp, 3 to dodge second stomp). hilarious. you want to know whats wrong with structured pvp? that. i probably actually lost to one thief all day (i faced at least two dozen different ones). the fact that i had to put effort into beating such a mindless build. ridiculous, sad even.

then i go online later and watch streams. was watching EU’s Evelith (thief – sword dagger / shortbow)…. and here i thought sword dag was one of the more balanced builds. this guy wrecks people in under two seconds. it got me to thinking. drop steal damage by 3k (on crits) and cloak and dagger by 1k+ (on crits) and suddenly it might be almost balanced.

what everyone has been referring to but not necessarily saying is that normal characters have somewhere from a 17k to 20k life pool – regardless of toughness. (guards can get down to 14-15k comfortably… gg hp regen). thief combo is steal 6k cloak and dagger 4.5k backstab 5.5k – 9.5k (generally) and then you have heartseeker for an average of 4k each hit (from around 60 – 50% hp). granted these are all crits, what thief doesn’t have 50%+ crit……… just the intial combo is enough to bring someone to critical health and reduce anything they can do in a fight to running away and healing and running some more, though heartseeker will distance close and kill for sure.

you say zerging is a problem. you say paid tournys needing so many tickets is a problem. you say bunkers are a problem. you say lack of a ladder and a matchmaking mechanic is a problem. you say all these other things are a problem. playing in the same game as 8 – 10 thieves (out of 15 other people not including myself – haven’t been playing my thief due to over-saturation) and having to stay on your toes just to not die to a such a simple minded combo. has there ever been anything so crippling? i even have to pay attention to 1v1’s on my tankier classes… the only thing i play that can laugh at thieves is my necro. one class out of all eight classes that i play. really? we have to wait till nov 15th for you to fix this? the pw nerf came fast enough, but what about this? this has been around forever, and nothing? cmon.

don’t get me wrong, ive been seeing a ton of low rank (aka new) players in spvp. but the vast majority are playing thieves, and all using the same spec. i play all classes. I think gw2 is an extremely fun game with so many ways to pvp its almost funny. but everyone i see is only playing one spec. just this one. just what are you doing anet. real. before everything else, before the rest of your iceberg, how about you fix this. everyone i know who played this game has quit due to various reasons. im not about to quit but im starting to understand peoples frustration. less experienced players will get slaughtered by this (excuse me) noob spec. its not about going into paids and getting stomped. its going into pvp and seeing a thief, then getting dropped in 2 seconds because they don’t have the experience to retaliate properly. heaven forbid i actually run into a good thief – i dont even know what i’d do. the only reason i can fight back is because i know what to expect, but even then im hard pressed to keep up because 2 hits and im half hp. sure that pressure makes me play harder but really? i can’t find a member of the other team in hotjoin for god sakes (8v8s) that isnt a thief.

you wanna know why people are quitting? its because they don’t want to play a dd thief.

They said they wanted thieves to get away from a fight, and nobody to get away from a necro once engaged.

Apparently they mixed it up and gave thieves such ridiculous mobility that not only can they keep high uptime so nobody gets away from them versus the ease of escaping a necro, and on top of it they can disengage any fight that goes sour.

It’s a cheap class. We were told stealth wasn’t going to be a problem, that stealth classes would be balanced. Lo and behold, the stealth class with high burst in this game, like in every game, is presenting balance issues.

Stealth lasts too long when mesmers get crappier versions on a 90 sec cd that doesn’t even heal. Because that’s what stealth should be, temporary respite or to get by something quick. Not to reset a fight at will until you can fire off your string of easy crits.

The damage thief abilities deal relative to other classes is just silly. That a couple of thieves can pretty much keep an Eternal Battlegrounds dungeon locked down unless they get outmanned makes it obvious why the class is so popular in PvP.

Vena.8436:

If people stop talking about your valid concerns then that can mean one of two things:
they are no longer relevant and the thread you started would have died off anyway, or we’re all gone. :P So long as the topic of discussion is worth pursuing it will be pursued irregardless of whether or not it has its own little fancy forum post all to itself.

Look it wasn’t just my thread that was affected. Pray’s got hijacked as well, and both title’s were changed.

And since when have I been saying anything was obliterated? All I have said is that mods messing with popular threads that happen to be critical of the game that a lot of players agree with doesn’t look good.

Also the reason I and other talk about GW1 is that its a game that Anet had 7 years to develop a competitive system for that did eventually work well. I get your point about how the features were not perfect at day 1, so I probably should be more clear about my point that day 1 GW1 features are missing in GW2. But stuff like arranged matches, ladder and random arena was there even if they were not perfect.

Anet already proved it knew how to design a functional pvp game over the life of GW1, so it upsetting that this experience does not seem to have made the transition to GW2.

As a “hardcore casual” player I can say if we dont get 5v5 hotjoin by 15 Nov (to replace or supplement 8v8 hotjoin), I will be saying bye bye to this game and moving onto one of the new xmas games. Which will be very sad because this was a great game… until it got bogged down in 8v8 zerg, bunker builds and thief instagib.

It isn’t hard to introduce a ladder-like system.

Just do Elo ratings. In the first iteration, a team’s rating for matchmaking purposes is the average of the individual players’ rankings. That’s imperfect — it takes no account of whether a team has played together at length — but it’s a good start.

Oh take it on the chin gentlemen!

This forum trashes jon and his coworkers while we enjoy (just a little) their work. (I trash them too im not talking as a superior).

So he trolled you. He knows that playing with ewer than 4 friends is trash can in this game, theyve said theyre working on it a hhalf a dozen times and we the community just keep beating the dead horse. So… he trolled you. I think its pretty god kitten funny tbh. tip my hat, i nice to have a dev that lets the mask slip and show theres just another kitten gamer underneath.

Primo.4385:

Hi I’m new to GW2 and I’m looking forward to competitive PVP.

hot joins
gets zerged
learns nothing

OK I’ve been playing for awhile and I think I’m ready for tournaments

joins free tourney
has no idea what is going on, has never played 5v5, is basically useless
gets crushed by premades

Looks like I need a dedicated team to play this game competitively

tries to find a team
only like 4 people in mists and 2 are AFK

Welp, that wasn’t fun sorry guys

logs ofkittenuninstalls

Oh this is me >_>

It happened over a fairly short time period.

I only log in if i’ve had something to drink 1st now

Jacobin.8509:

Paid tournaments have been out for around 14 days and already have very long wait times. For newer teams that do not want to face pugs over and over this means they can have to wait for 20-40 minutes only to get stomped in less than 8 minutes by a hardcore team. Then they have to wait even longer for the next tournament.

The problem is not that hardcore teams face pug teams in PvP but the opposite ! The problem is that pug or casual teams face hardcore teams. And this is not fixed with paid tournaments. It fixes the first problem but not the second one. The casual players have no place to learn and progress in order to finally organize themselves and queue into paid tournaments once ready. So they leave for better structured PvP games. No casual players to play against, no pro players, no e-sport. Done.

And the communication that was between the dev groups and the players was a way better just after the launch. If we get one whole answer to a single topic in SPvP it’s a day to celebrate.
I know You are busy ANet, but a little communication wouldn’t do bad…

MarkedOne.1309:

To be honest, there might be a few patches, some people might appreciate some custom arenas but a lot of people already left and they are not coming back. After this patch, more people will leave because pug rank 1 solo player vs. hc top team is just not fun. It doesnt matter if they delete a few sharks on a map that nobody likes. There is a bad balance between classes and completele lack of content. If there is any. Zerg 8v1 (not 8v8 mostly in my experience) hot join, pug (yeah well) tournaments. Conquest doesnt have any future imo.
The thief, mesmer + ele,guard,engi… not so much fun with such burst damage and same goes with very hard to kill builds.
PvE was not bad, I actually enjoyed it except some tactic in dungeons. sPvP was so much fun to rank 20, after that I just grinded for the armor 40. To my surprise I discovered, this is a PvE game, not PvP and therefore there will not be any competetive last-longing scene.

+1 ! ! ! !
Anet told us they want to please both PvE players and PvP community …. but for 2 months now they have been pleasing only the PvE fans… 0 PvP EVENT, Fail Tournaments, Hotjoin games getting emptier and emptier…. You are right, GW2 is not a PvP game and should be renamed, because Anetlet’s be honest … WHERE ARE THE WARS ????????

PS : remember Hardcorers are not the PvP community, they are only part of it… the rest of the community (players like me and many that left alrdy, just enjoy PvP… just enjoy playing for fun and earning something nice… the fact is… the only thing we can farm atm are skins and they are all so so so … disappoiting… same as PvE ones!!! HAHAHA… Ok the gear do not count, so everyone is equal… But do we really want to be equal? If I play I don’t want to be a newbie-equal…AND I WILL NEVER BE BECAUSE MORE YOU PLAY, STRONGER YOU BECOME ANYWAY (By-the-way, personally, gear difference always motivated me)… I just want to farm myself, THIS is the way people get interested ! Maybe you should change your strategy, your system obviously fail BECAUSE THE MISTS ARE EMPTY ! ! !)

PS2 : WvsW is the only thing that keeps me playing … for now, but zergland won’t be fun forever, know it
/kiss

I dont understand why anet advirtised this game as an esport when they’re doing nothing to keep the PvP scene going. I under stand GW may be a largely PvE game but they should WANT to expand their player base and improve PvP so more people will play => more money made by them

THIS:

Arena 2v2,3v3,4v4, deathmatch, ranking system, duels, inspect pvp rank, solo/group que + new small area maps because we don’t like unbalanced 5v2, 2v4 etc.

I’m casual player, i will never have 5 ppl online at the same time what should i do?

The best fun is 3v3, but it happens like once in a week while playing daily
(i mean hot join because there are max 3 ppl afking or desperately punching air in the mists so i can’t get ppl to play tournament)

i would like to see 20v20 or 15v15 maps or 8v8v8 larger maps. wvw is zergish with 50 ppl roaming around.
or bring pvp weapons with new stats, spvp is a little bad i am only lv 11 there playing 2h a day and still that low lv, and i got weapons of my choice buying it in Black market or dungeon tokens just for transmog.
but something is missing, same 3 maps all over again makes me puke after 2 hours of gameplay. need longer bigger maps. but often have a feeling something is missing, i have played wow for 6 years, and there you can always do something, farming pvp or pve, farming mounts something, here you have dungeons and if you farmed it all like i did there is 100% map research and if you done that only thing left is to farm for legendary wpn or make another alt and level up(but whats the point of game when you dont have nothing to do at 80 and because of that you need to level alt to get of boredom). dont get me wrong i dont like wow that much because i fell in love with this game but something is missing really bad here. One day events will not change that feeling. (sorry for my bad english )

make so public games would be played with players with similar ranks. I don’t really like to be face rolled by 30+ while I got matched with 1st or 10-.

I don’t care which server I’m joining since you can’t pick a next map nor I can’t filter some maps I don’t like. Make it like in LoL rank matches when you w8 in a queue so you can be teamed with players around your rank.

Personally I think that rather than implementing the Paid trounaments first , it should have been a rating/ELO system.

By putting out Paids first, there are only three brackets of play – PuGs, free, and paids. Placing PvPers into only three ability levels alienates anyone that lies in between these brackets. This could have been better remedied through a ranking system because ranking systems and matchmaking systems that pair teams of similar rankings, by nature, has as many times more brackets of ability as the ranking system cap has in relation to the current system.

For example, let’s say the rating cap (if a cap is really what is even used) is 3000. There are, therefore in theory, 1000x more ability brackets for players to fall into which alienates a far smaller group of PvPers. In practice it isn’t REALLY 1000x – more like 500x or 600x because having 1 more rating than another team doesn’t really hold THAT much significance, but the example is just to illustrate the concept.

By creating a matchmaking system based off a ranking system, less players are alienated because there are exponentially more brackets of ability for players to fall under. It isn’t perfect because there’s no way to express every single person’s ability level with a number, but it’s certainly better than having so few ability strata for players to fall into.

I think that not all PvP gear should be equal in stats. People need the drive to keep playing and working towards acquiring that next better gear piece. They will be a lot more happy when that new gear part drops from that chest they got from ranking up, if it actually makes a difference in their effectiveness in PvP. Having everything “balanced” like it is now, is nice in a way, but doesn’t give people the motivation to keep playing.

Esthetx.6412:

I think that not all PvP gear should be equal in stats. People need the drive to keep playing and working towards acquiring that next better gear piece. They will be a lot more happy when that new gear part drops from that chest they got from ranking up, if it actually makes a difference in their effectiveness in PvP. Having everything “balanced” like it is now, is nice in a way, but doesn’t give people the motivation to keep playing.

Disagree. People don’t need to have a drive to keep playing. Look at dota 2, LoL, Every FPS ever made. People have no problem playing a game for no gain. The reason they play is because its fun. Right now spvp is crap and not fun, tpvp is not fun. People are leaving because the game is not fun, not because they don’t have gains.

Primo.4385:

Hi I’m new to GW2 and I’m looking forward to competitive PVP.

hot joins
gets zerged
learns nothing

OK I’ve been playing for awhile and I think I’m ready for tournaments

joins free tourney
has no idea what is going on, has never played 5v5, is basically useless
gets crushed by premades

Looks like I need a dedicated team to play this game competitively

tries to find a team
only like 4 people in mists and 2 are AFK

Welp, that wasn’t fun sorry guys

logs ofkittenuninstalls

Didn’t uninstall, but other than that it’s what I went through as well.
Casual pvp in this game is pretty darn boring after a while, not to mention utterly useless zerging.

My biggest beef with GW2 PvP is the fact that Conquest is not at all fun, and is the only format available. There is seriously no variety in any aspect of this PvP game. How on earth is this the successor to one of the best and most variety filled PvP games ever?

Tournaments are cool when I actually care about playing the game, but I don’t, so literally all the new features that are being added are totally worthless. These are features for the 12 existing hard core PvP players and none of the 2,000,000+ other GW2 players.

Stop working on e-sport BS and give me a PvP format that is enjoyable for no other reason than it is enjoyable.

Vena.8436:

You guys really need to chill with the “concern” about moderation. They merged two topics which covered and said the same thing: sPvP is messed up, here let outline the reasons. I read and posted in both of those threads and I felt like I was wasting my breath half repeating myself because there’s only so much you can say in a topic that has been covered, is being covered, and will continue to be covered when everyone decides its their turn to post their opinion (usually exactly the same one, since the problems are glaringly obvious).

I see very little posts merged that all say ‘thank you Anet’ and the likes.
If any, those posts all say the same and bring little or no discussion. They give happy positive feedback, which is GOOD, but they don’t bring anything worth of a seperate thread.
they never get merged.

Mostly the critical topics get merged, even if they discuss things in seperate ways and with seperate emphasis.

Merging a thread into another completely ruins all ongoing discussion, since you are suddenly faced with replies to things that weren’t discussed in your post and all of that mess.
Simply quoting one post, while the rest of the page is about something different, does not work well for a discussion.
Any decent topic developpes a certain ‘flow’ in the discussion, that is as important as finding back the seperate posts themselves.

Merging is a mild censorship, any way you look at it.
And a dangerous one at that: it’s a form of censorship that hides behind rules that are in essence objective, yet their usage is not.

Unless it merges the posts who have no ongoing discussion but basically all agree on the original post (like the happy ones).

(not quoting the rest of your post because it adresses the actual topic of pvp)

Hello,

Here are a few things that i think are needed for the game to be better.

1. “Secondary objectives” being more meaningful.

• 1.1 – Forest: More points for killing Svanir|Chieftain (like 50) would benefit the game flow (less about bunkers|points) and cause uncertainty until a team actually gets to 500 (and yes, i will talk about thiefs). Also, they should only spawn at like 1 minute into the game.
• 1.2 – Foefire: Have the Lord respawn after like 8 minutes for the same reasons above.
• 1.3 – Khylo: Treb is ok (except Portal Mesmers).

2. Tournaments

• 2.1 – In Free, Premades shouldn’t be queued with solos. Full 5s should only play with full 5s.
• 2.2 – Players should be paired for tournaments based on their rank level. If a level 20 player queues, he should only be able to get in a tournament with players rank 15 to 25. If the queue would take too long, then it would look for ranks 10 to 30. More than a 10 point difference is just an unsatisfying experience for both the low level and for the high level.
• 2.3 – The character you are in and the weapons you are equipping should be Locked the moment you accept a Tournament invite. After accepting the invite you should only be able to change Traits and Utilities.
• 2.4 – Does 8v8 hot-join makes sense, even if you make it 5vs5 (which u should) ? Not sure about this one.

3. Game Balance

• 3.1 – For balance reasons there should only be 1 competitive mode and i actually don’t mind conquest.
• 3.2 – Spikers and bunkers need to be toned down, and frankly Quickness has no place in the game, its fast enough as it is.
• 3.3 – Stealth should be capped at 3 seconds. You shouldn’t be able to stack it so the revealed should be mandatory. Shadow Refuge is just a completely broken skill and only fun to the person who uses it.
• 3.4 – Rally should be banished from sPvP. It makes for some seriously unfair situations. Downed state is fine and should be maintained else spikers would be even more OP.
• 3.5 – All the trait bugs really need to be fixed.

That’s it for now. I will try to think of more later.

Henric

Primo.4385:

Hi I’m new to GW2 and I’m looking forward to competitive PVP.

hot joins
gets zerged
learns nothing

OK I’ve been playing for awhile and I think I’m ready for tournaments

joins free tourney
has no idea what is going on, has never played 5v5, is basically useless
gets crushed by premades

Looks like I need a dedicated team to play this game competitively

tries to find a team
only like 4 people in mists and 2 are AFK

Welp, that wasn’t fun sorry guys

logs ofkittenuninstalls

This exaggeration could be used for basically every game forever. Imagine your first 5 hot-join games of DotA, or Starcraft II. Tell me what you learn when you get 4-gated, 6-pooled, or team-stomped by a DotA pre-made.

If you’re going to play a PvP game, you need to accept losing and analyze the situation in order to get better. In fact, when you get stomped, if you’re paying attention, you can learn more quickly what works best and start moving towards playing with/against it.

I get that it’s discouraging, but why do PvPers have such thin skins these days?

Seriously? You think having the first thing a new player does in structured be completely different than what they do in tournaments is a good thing? My post isn’t an exaggeration at all. That’s literally what happens every time a person tries structured pvp for the first time. Why do you think there are so few people doing structured. It sucks.

Also what’s with the thin skin remark? People aren’t idiots and don’t want to waste their time being frustrated with a broken system and you say they have thin skin?

Primo.4385:

Hi I’m new to GW2 and I’m looking forward to competitive PVP.

hot joins
gets zerged
learns nothing

OK I’ve been playing for awhile and I think I’m ready for tournaments

joins free tourney
has no idea what is going on, has never played 5v5, is basically useless
gets crushed by premades

Looks like I need a dedicated team to play this game competitively

tries to find a team
only like 4 people in mists and 2 are AFK

Welp, that wasn’t fun sorry guys

logs ofkittenuninstalls

hope Anet take PvP more serious, since this game is called Guild Wars , we should have a LOT of more PvP content.

It already have been passed almost 3 months after release and nothing inside PvP changed , c’mon what are u waiting for? Ideas? don’t think so… you’r getting incredible feedbacks from experienced players, so please do it, people hardly come back after abandoning a game

Primo.4385:

Seriously? You think having the first thing a new player does in structured be completely different than what they do in tournaments is a good thing? My post isn’t an exaggeration at all. That’s literally what happens every time a person tries structured pvp for the first time. Why do you think there are so few people doing structured. It sucks.

Also what’s with the thin skin remark? People aren’t idiots and don’t want to waste their time being frustrated with a broken system and you say they have thin skin?

The thin skin remark was because no one can tolerate losing anymore, and instead of trying to figure out how to beat what’s killing them, many just come to the forums and complain about imbalance.

To me, that’s a huge problem ANet can’t even begin to fix.

Yes, GW2 needs a lot of work in all kinds of departments. More streaming content, availability of third-party tournaments, spectator mode, additional game modes so casual players can have fun in a non-competitive environment, more in-game browsing features for competitive play, bug fixes, balance tweaks, etc. etc. etc. I think they underestimated how much sPvP would be crutched on as the sole mode of play for many PvPers, and I think they have a long road ahead.

However, you’re kidding yourself if you think a frustrating barrier of entry is some new concept. One can learn from basically any situation if one opens his eyes and has the desire to actually improve.

Anyway, please draw up something similar for DotA/SC2. I’d be interested to hear what you think new players to those games go through. Is it something like:

New player joins game.
Finds all sorts of helpful input.
Feels competitive.
Has all intense games with no cheese.
Learns a lot from every game after long post-game conversations.
Gets really involved in the community.
Loves the game forever.

Just wondering.

Cogbyrn.7283:

If you’re going to play a PvP game, you need to accept losing and analyze the situation in order to get better. In fact, when you get stomped, if you’re paying attention, you can learn more quickly what works best and start moving towards playing with/against it.

I get that it’s discouraging, but why do PvPers have such thin skins these days?

I am sorry but blaming the players is incredibly stupid at this stage.

The reason is that with no elo or MMR there is no way for newer teams to build up their skill by playing similarly skilled competition. They can stomp pugs in frees or wait for 20 mins in queue to likely get farmed by the very small number of hardcore teams. Add to this the fact they they are spending currency in paids to get farmed.

You can’t expect people to stick it out through a broken system. Players and teams don’t quit because they can’t handle losing. They quit because its impossible for them to get a meaningful match consistently, and there are 1000000 other games where they can.

If you honestly believe it makes sense that people should farm or pay money for tickets just to get stomped by a team with way more experience over and over until they get better instead of playing against similarly skilled competition and moving up a ladder as they improve, all I can say is have fun in the near empty and shrinking sPvP you currently have.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Primo.4385:

Hi I’m new to GW2 and I’m looking forward to competitive PVP.

hot joins
gets zerged
learns nothing

OK I’ve been playing for awhile and I think I’m ready for tournaments

joins free tourney
has no idea what is going on, has never played 5v5, is basically useless
gets crushed by premades

Looks like I need a dedicated team to play this game competitively

tries to find a team
only like 4 people in mists and 2 are AFK

Welp, that wasn’t fun sorry guys

logs ofkittenuninstalls

This exaggeration could be used for basically every game forever. Imagine your first 5 hot-join games of DotA, or Starcraft II. Tell me what you learn when you get 4-gated, 6-pooled, or team-stomped by a DotA pre-made.

If you’re going to play a PvP game, you need to accept losing and analyze the situation in order to get better. In fact, when you get stomped, if you’re paying attention, you can learn more quickly what works best and start moving towards playing with/against it.

I get that it’s discouraging, but why do PvPers have such thin skins these days?

Sorry but you have no idea what your talking about. When a new player plays Dota or LoL they play the same game the Pro’s do. For example what if new players played Dota but with 8 players per side instead of 5, Do you really think they are learning the same game? Its even worse in GW2. The fact is players in LoL do in fact play the same game, they also get matched to other pugs, not pre-made’s. They also get matched to other players with the same skill. They also don’t have to form the group them selves. Pugging in Dota 2 and LoL works very well.

What he outlined is exactly what happens. GW2 makes it very very hard for new players to come into this game. Go into the mists some time and try to form a team. Just try it.

I would also like to point out that lots of players play both dota 2 and LoL, two games have steep learning curves, games that are very rough on new players, games that when a new player starts to play they will lose over and over again. Yet people keep playing them, they get more and more players. So if having thin skin has nothing to do with it, after all dota 2 and LoL work just fine, whats wrong with GW2?

My husband and I play GW2 together. In the other two MMOs we have played, part of our time was spent in PvP. But not in GW2. I have play sPvP alone.

We CANNOT join a free game together. There is no grouping mechanism. We are always in a party, but most of the time we either get separated on opposite teams, or even in different maps. So now he just won’t do sPvP at all. And although I still join once or twice a week, it’s not as much fun.

I would appreciate a little longer break between map rotation. And if I get Capricorn, I’ll just return to the Mists most of the time; I don’t care for that map.

It is a bit boring that all the maps have the same concept. I am used to different kinds of maps. I may not like all the different kinds, but I usually like 4 out of 5 of them. But I can’t choose my map anyway in GW2. I find that strange.

I stated in the Beta Weekend feedback that the Mystic Forge way of getting different armor skins was not a good idea. I can’t use my points to get the skins I want. I have to look mismatched until I luck into two things that look good together, if I get anything at all. Why can’t I just have the look of my normal armor, which I will NEVER get from the Mystic Forge, because some of it is cultural and/or from an Order. Why can’t I be an individual?

I was very excited about GW2 leveling everyone to 80, and not having to do a gear grind for stats! However, the way everything else works in sPvP is causing it to a very small part of my GW2, instead of an integrated part of my normal play. I find that sad. I miss those nights when we would ask each other ‘what do you want to do tonight?’ —- PvP! Doesn’t happen at all in GW2.

And yeah, I tried joining ticket tournament once. Didn’t work out at all. Won’t do that again. lol

Good post. Hope someone pays attention. I wished ANET luck with the PvP community during Beta. I still do. I would like it to be viable, and I want to be a part of it.

stpetemermaid.5947:

My husband and I play GW2 together. In the other two MMOs we have played, part of our time was spent in PvP. But not in GW2. I have play sPvP alone.

We CANNOT join a free game together. There is no grouping mechanism. We are always in a party, but most of the time we either get separated on opposite teams, or even in different maps. So now he just won’t do sPvP at all. And although I still join once or twice a week, it’s not as much fun.

I would appreciate a little longer break between map rotation. And if I get Capricorn, I’ll just return to the Mists most of the time; I don’t care for that map.

It is a bit boring that all the maps have the same concept. I am used to different kinds of maps. I may not like all the different kinds, but I usually like 4 out of 5 of them. But I can’t choose my map anyway in GW2. I find that strange.

I stated in the Beta Weekend feedback that the Mystic Forge way of getting different armor skins was not a good idea. I can’t use my points to get the skins I want. I have to look mismatched until I luck into two things that look good together, if I get anything at all. Why can’t I just have the look of my normal armor, which I will NEVER get from the Mystic Forge, because some of it is cultural and/or from an Order. Why can’t I be an individual?

I was very excited about GW2 leveling everyone to 80, and not having to do a gear grind for stats! However, the way everything else works in sPvP is causing it to a very small part of my GW2, instead of an integrated part of my normal play. I find that sad. I miss those nights when we would ask each other ‘what do you want to do tonight?’ —- PvP! Doesn’t happen at all in GW2.

And yeah, I tried joining ticket tournament once. Didn’t work out at all. Won’t do that again. lol

Good post. Hope someone pays attention. I wished ANET luck with the PvP community during Beta. I still do. I would like it to be viable, and I want to be a part of it.

My wife and I play MMO’s together all the time as well. In fact it was it was wow that made my wife love pvp, to the point that she would play it more than pve. We started playing GW2 and in no time we were back to playing other games, GW2 pvp is just not fun. I ended up playing for some time solo, I even got into some good pvp guilds, we even did very well wining most of our games, but its not fun stomping pugs and its not fun getting crushed.

If you work on it you can play on the same map and on the same side, its really not that hard, you just have to be willing to wait it out.

We just installed Aion and hope that we will get some fun pvp out of that game.

Mada.5319:

2.5 months since release and the gw2 competitive scene is smaller than gw1’s competitive scene 2.5 months after it was released. The difference between then and now? James Phinney left Anet…..

What?

…. WUTT???

James Phinney has always only embodied one thing: Environment. …He’s basically a Writer. He didn’t design the “systems”. He has almost nothing to do with PvP. Since waaaaay back in Blizzard and Interplay’s hey days, he put together the Setting. He defined the character of the aesthetic and that’s where it ended. That’s incredibly important of course too, but it has almost nothing to do with this topic. Which is: Compulsive/Addictive PvP gameplay or why there’s such a lack of it *(or lack of participants this early on).

I’m not weighing in any further than that… just had to point out that you apparently have your Developers confused or something.

I came to the game with about 6-7 friends who all played WoW at a high level (all Gladiators). We were all looking for something new to play in place of WoW, which we felt suffered from poor balance issues. GW2 seemed to be the answer.

When we started playing the game, we were extremely pleased with the 5v5 gameplay. The professions were very well balanced for a game that had just launched (certain classes were obviously better than others, but no class was completely nonviable), and the node based gameplay was surprisingly fun.

However, none of us is currently playing GW2, and I think the biggest reason is a lack of a matchmaking system. As many others have outlined, without a matchmaking system in place, the games are often very lopsided in terms of skill. In many games, my group of friends and I would dominate the opposing team, and then we would play one of the more renowned teams and we would get destroyed. Neither scenario was very entertaining. The rare game where our match was close was extremely fun though.

I think that the lack of a matchmaking system caused many people that were interested in competition to quit the game. And after this number of people quit the game, there simply aren’t enough teams queuing anymore to provide good competition across different skill levels. All of the paid tournaments seem to end in fighting one of the best teams still left playing, which ultimately ends in a lopsided defeat.

I think the chance for GW2 to be established as a popular e-sports game has been missed. Unfortunately, I think that even if a matchmaking system was implemented at this time, there wouldn’t be enough players that would return to have an active ladder. I hope I’m wrong though, because I think GW2 is amazingly well done. However, I’ll continue to play WoW in the meantime (despite its terrible game balance), simply because I can play against people of my level at a consistent rate.

Sorry if all this has already been said previously, I didn’t have time to read the entire thread.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

So if having thin skin has nothing to do with it, after all dota 2 and LoL work just fine, whats wrong with GW2?

Perhaps because everyone always blames each other for losing, even if everyone in the game is absolutely terrible. Even if half the people in the game are terrible and half are pretty good. Even if 3 people on the team are on their 10th game and the other 2 are professionals in disguise.

It’s easy to come back to a game where you think the fault lies with the players.

You also missed the part where I said GW2 needs loads of work, but that’s to be expected.

At any rate, this thread has become a Pitchfork Brotherhood, so any potential for actual discussion is completely out the window. Not that any actual discussion happens on this sub-forum anyway. It’s mostly “I agree” or “you’re an idiot”.

Enjoy patting each other on the back.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

So if having thin skin has nothing to do with it, after all dota 2 and LoL work just fine, whats wrong with GW2?

Perhaps because everyone always blames each other for losing, even if everyone in the game is absolutely terrible. Even if half the people in the game are terrible and half are pretty good. Even if 3 people on the team are on their 10th game and the other 2 are professionals in disguise.

It’s easy to come back to a game where you think the fault lies with the players.

You also missed the part where I said GW2 needs loads of work, but that’s to be expected.

At any rate, this thread has become a Pitchfork Brotherhood, so any potential for actual discussion is completely out the window. Not that any actual discussion happens on this sub-forum anyway. It’s mostly “I agree” or “you’re an idiot”.

Enjoy patting each other on the back.

Your right it is easy to go back to a game were you think the fault lies with the players, and that’s whats wrong with GW2. The fault does not lie with the players but with the foundation of the game. Thank you for agreeing.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Esthetx.6412:

I think that not all PvP gear should be equal in stats. People need the drive to keep playing and working towards acquiring that next better gear piece. They will be a lot more happy when that new gear part drops from that chest they got from ranking up, if it actually makes a difference in their effectiveness in PvP. Having everything “balanced” like it is now, is nice in a way, but doesn’t give people the motivation to keep playing.

Disagree. People don’t need to have a drive to keep playing. Look at dota 2, LoL, Every FPS ever made. People have no problem playing a game for no gain. The reason they play is because its fun. Right now spvp is crap and not fun, tpvp is not fun. People are leaving because the game is not fun, not because they don’t have gains.

Well u are right also, atm s/tPvP is 1) not funny at all, repatitive as hell 2) MOREOVER u just wait your time in the mists, u earn nothing else than PvE skins … COME ON ANET? DON’T YOU HAVE PVP DEDICADED DESIGNERS? … oh wait, the answer is obviously NO.

just give us /rank command. ill play for that any day.

Agree with the OP, and perhaps this might be for another thread but someone remind what the reasoning was for having only this Domination/Conquest-esque game mode? There are many team based game modes for competitive play but this mode has never been the most popular one. Granted it’s one I enjoy, you could easily add maps with nodes becoming spawn points and a flag carrying mechanic. That would surely invigorate the server population.
So many possibilities and modes we’re missing out on. Please give us more variety.

PS. Allow us to queue for the maps we want!

Disruptive.2509:

someone remind what the reasoning was for having only this Domination/Conquest-esque game mode?

They said they tested various modes down the development process and that Conquest was the one most fitting their combat system and pace of the game.

While there is some valid reasoning behind that – I for instance can’t imagine a 5v5 deathmatch teamfight with all the AI and AoE they pumped into their game. Floating weapons, minions, clones & phantasms, pets & spirits, summoned thieves and rune/sigil summons combined with insane amount of AoE circles and effects have all become a major dealbreaker when it comes to a competitive PvP. They not only destroy a skill-based gameplay creating press-and-forget playstyle, but also put RNG in charge.

Add in disparities in class strength, unbelievable bugs and glitches as well as very low battlefield transparency and you get a pretty much dead game, at least when competitive PvP is concerned.

The AI and AoE is acceptable (not to be mistaken with ‘okay’) in larger areas, but they definitely are not suitable for small Conquest maps and tiny capture nods. It all leads to a clutter that pushes one to simply ask himself whether these things were even played and tested internally.

How could a such a big studio filled with extremely talented and experienced industry veterans and pioneers produce this particular PvP? These mistakes are in my view way too far along to be just simple misjudgements.

The whole system is broken.
Conquest is not competitive. It is repetitive. Most importantly it lacks the most basic incentive to play – Fun, which directly contradicts Anet’s design philosophy.

No Custom Arenas, additional map or fixes will change that. The game won’t amazingly become interesting just because you can rent (!) a server and pick a map.

A major overhaul is not only needed, but required. At least for me and every single one of my friends (literally dozens and dozens of friends from years of competitive GW1 of which no one plays anymore).

Anet, read it and talk about it internally. Don’t ignore us. We may know nothing about game development and your future plans, but we sure know a lot about fun and PvP. At the moment we all agree (visit Wartower, Teamquitter or Guildwars.pl) that it’s not PvP we want.

Oh yeah and another thing, PLEASE let us turn off all the particle effects. You created this cool thing where instead of cast bars we are supposed to watch character animations so we can dodge or interrupt at the right time, except that it’s impossible because there 20 million fireballs and explosions freaking everywhere on this TINY little point that everybody is clusterkittening on.

So yeah, let us turn off particle effects. I’m not even going to get started on how Asura have an innate advantage because they are so ridiculously small their animations are impossible to decipher, especially combined with the fact that there are probably 3-6 mesmer clones running all over the place and a couple of thiefs that aren’t even rendered while dropping 10k backtsab bombs on you.

Yeah the more I think of it the harder time I have believing that this game is ever going to be fun.