Guild Wars 2

Hi, my name is Salman and most people know me as Ice/Icifyr from the NA PvP scene.
What most people don’t know is I was an administrator at WOGL (World Online Gaming League) which organised (not a typo I use Australian English) leagues and tournaments for several games. Sadly, I left my position but I have always wondered if that was a good decision.

Recently, I saw an opportunity in League of Legends (Australian scene) as Riot Games is opening a server in Australia. I decided I was going to start a project, essentially, a website with a group of people who would organise leagues and tournaments for LoL (Australia). The project is currently under development and we, IceGaming, will be releasing a beta website soon.

I started to play Guild Wars 2, again, a few days ago and was surprised to find that ANet have released custom servers so I thought this would be an opportune moment to ask the community if they would be interested in leagues and tournaments for Guild Wars 2.

I’ll continue from here with dot points to outline what we were thinking:

Edit: notes marked with “#” include comments from the community, notes marked with “~” are comments added by us after our initial post

These are the potential events we could hold:

- #Group-based single elimination tournament
- #16 teams minimum
- #4 groups of 4 teams, top two teams from groups advance to elimination tournament
- ~Hosted over a few weeks, with similar rules as placement tournament idea
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- #Draft tournament (over a day) – public group or teams
- ~Players gathers on a voice chat
- ~Captains chosen from players
- ~Captains pick players
- ~ Teams play against each other (as a single elimination tournament)
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- Placement tournament
- Two tournaments; one for each region
- Double elimination tournament (standard)
- #Team sign-ups (not invite only)
- Even number of teams, atleast 32 teams #maybe decrease amount of teams needed for NA and maybe EU#bye if odd amount of teams
- Each team has 5 starting players with 2 substitutes #Decrease amount of substitutes, or increase the amount of substitutes fielded from other teams or remove substitutes altogether #Minimum amount of players per team: 5?
- Only 1 substitute allowed to be fielded from another team #Increase maybe?
- If Team A has to play Team B where Team A’s substitute is a part of the starting 5 players of Team B the substitute cannot play as a substitute for Team A
- A substitute cannot be a substitute for more than one team #Maybe remove this rule or change?
- Players can only play in their supported regional tournament, there can be exceptions to this rule for players from countries where there is no specific supported region.
- Each team must have at least one player who has access to a custom arena
- ~Each round of tournament played over a week
- ~Default time e.g. NA (8pm PST on Friday)
- ~ If teams cannot organise a time before default time they must play at default time
- Teams are locked before tournament starts
- Top 16 teams listed as pro, others amateur
- No prizes
- If enough support start league for GW2 with pro/amateur division

So, what do you guys think?

Please show your support on Reddit and the Offical Guild Wars 2 Forums by up-voting and commenting.
Reddit (Guild Wars 2): http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1dumyt/gw2_esports_leagues_and_tournaments/
Reddit (GW2 E-Sports): http://www.reddit.com/r/gw2esports/comments/1dupr2/gw2_esports_leagues_and_tournaments/
Official Guild Wars 2 Forums: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/GW2-e-sports-leagues-and-tournaments

Edit: Also, try to share this thread and reddit post with your friends and family so we can see the amount of support there is for this idea!

Backlog of suggestions/changes:

- #Decrease amount of teams required
- #Change amount of substitutes
- #Draft tournament (over a day) – public group or teams
- ~Players gathers on a voice chat
- ~Captains chosen from players
- ~Captains pick players
- ~ Teams play against each other (as a single elimination tournament)
- ~Each round of tournament played over a week
- ~Default time e.g. NA (8pm PST on Friday)
- ~If teams cannot organise a time before default time they must play at default time
- #Minimum amount of players per team 5?
- #Group-based single elimination tournament
- #16 teams minimum
- #4 groups of 4 teams, top two teams from groups advance to elimination tournament
- ~Hosted over a few weeks, with similar rules as placement tournament idea
- #Team sign-ups (not invite only)
- #Bye if odd amount of teams

I hope you can do this. Good luck

Your big challange will be finding enough teams to do anything meaningful. Where GW2 does not promote team play at all there is a very limited amount around. It actually amazes me how unorganized the GW2 community is in a age where a lot of people playing likely Raided several times a week in WoW at a set time, in masses I doubt you could even do that in pve in GW2.

However I have an idea that could be fun and also get a decent amount of players involved plus maybe help the community grow.

A Pug tourney, basically just setup the time and when everyone shows up you randomly assign them to teams of 5 and have a tourney. The Hard core Team types likely would not like it but you may create more teams by doing it.

First of all, it would be awesome to get some really experienced organi(s)ers such as yourself to start a league. Second, the community is way too small on NA to get 4 good teams even let alone 32.

On EU, I actually think you could achieve 32 teams, but a lot of them would be quite inexperienced and probably some pugs forming just to participate in tournaments. Even in top 16 on eu you will have some low quality games but they can get experienced pretty quick if there are actual tournaments or leagues to participate in.

Anyways, just trying to familiarize you with the actual gw2 scene, as it is it is quite small but we’ll see how fast it can grow once tournaments start.

Having 2 substitutes would also be very hard to achieve considering the size of the scene.

Chicho Gosho.6507:

I hope you can do this. Good luck

I hope we can too, thank you!

DevO.9854:

Your big challange will be finding enough teams to do anything meaningful. Where GW2 does not promote team play at all there is a very limited amount around. It actually amazes me how unorganized the GW2 community is in a age where a lot of people playing likely Raided several times a week in WoW at a set time, in masses I doubt you could even do that in pve in GW2.

However I have an idea that could be fun and also get a decent amount of players involved plus maybe help the community grow.

A Pug tourney, basically just setup the time and when everyone shows up you randomly assign them to teams of 5 and have a tourney. The Hard core Team types likely would not like it but you may create more teams by doing it.

- #Draft tournament (over a day) – public group or teams

I like this idea. So, a draft tournament. I’ve organised something similar for another game where people would get onto a TeamSpeak server at a certain time and then the administrators would choose captains and organise teams. I think this would be a good idea to get the community involved and show there is a chance for GW2 PvP as an esport. I’ve noted this idea down.

Phantaram.1265:

First of all, it would be awesome to get some really experienced organi(s)ers such as yourself to start a league. Second, the community is way too small on NA to get 4 good teams even let alone 32.

On EU, I actually think you could achieve 32 teams, but a lot of them would be quite inexperienced and probably some pugs forming just to participate in tournaments. Even in top 16 on eu you will have some low quality games but they can get experienced pretty quick if there are actual tournaments or leagues to participate in.

Anyways, just trying to familiarize you with the actual gw2 scene, as it is it is quite small but we’ll see how fast it can grow once tournaments start.

Having 2 substitutes would also be very hard to achieve considering the size of the scene.

- #Decrease amount of teams required
- #Change amount of substitutes

Hmm, I see. I was fearing this would be the case but I guess we could try and see how many teams would sign-up, maybe decrease the amount of teams required. I see, maybe a tournament would not be the best way to get the community involved. Do you have any other ideas on what we could possibly do? Yes, I think the GW2 scene was much larger before I quit. I took that into consideration with trying to field substitutes from other teams and one back-up substitute. Maybe we could allow two substitutes which can be fielded from other teams.

Thanks for your responses guys, keep it coming and I will try to add these ideas to my main post/reddit post.

Its nice idea but you have some kind of set rules in head, you should be more flexible instead. I don’t know if u noticed but gw2 competitions are just beginning with custom arenas. You would be one of first to start project like this, and because of that you should be much more flexible. For example I think that players prefer to have only 5 people in team instead of 7. Also don’t expect 32 teams at first try.

Nice one! I think the community will say yes to your initiative.

I always like leagues, i think your idea has great potential to become a point of reference for the community pvp of the game.

I would love to see something like this. I would be happy to help in any way, and if it goes through I will promote it the best a possible. I would also be willing to donate money towards prizes, if we can get people signed up.

Duncanmix.5238:

Its nice idea but you have some kind of set rules in head, you should be more flexible instead.

I don’t understand.

I don’t know if u noticed but gw2 competitions are just beginning with custom arenas. You would be one of first to start project like this, and because of that you should be much more flexible.

I understand can you outline more ways that we could be more flexible?

For example I think that players prefer to have only 5 people in team instead of 7.

- ~ Each round of tournament played over a week
- ~ Default time e.g. NA (8pm PST on Friday)
- ~ If teams cannot organise a time before default time they must play at default time
- #Minimum amount of players per team 5?

Thanks for your post, I’ve added more rules from what I’m posting here:

I will place a note but I think it’s still necessary that teams have substitutes because usually each round of the tournament is played over a week and it’s hard to organise teams for optimal time arrangements so this could mean that teams would have to play at a time when they don’t have their starting 5 players.

Shawnbuell.8407:

I would love to see something like this. I would be happy to help in any way, and if it goes through I will promote it the best a possible. I would also be willing to donate money towards prizes, if we can get people signed up.

Thanks for your offer, I have written down your username and I will contact you if we need your help.

I think with a higher player pool it allows the more amateur teams will get some experience outside of scrimmages. Watching the same teams that everyone is already aware exist, play each other over and over won’t be entertaining.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

I think with a higher player pool it allows the more amateur teams will get some experience outside of scrimmages.

So you mean that by having a lot of teams there is the possibility that the newer teams will be able to play against them and get some experience? I think the problem is that there aren’t very many teams.

Watching the same teams that everyone is already aware exist, play each other over and over won’t be entertaining.

By watching, what do you mean?

As in statistically (from their scores) or of streams?

Because I don’t think anyone has touched on streaming and I don’t understand how the spectator mode works; can someone can elaborate on streaming potential?

IceTenacious.4126:

Duncanmix.5238:

Its nice idea but you have some kind of set rules in head, you should be more flexible instead.

I don’t understand.

I don’t know if u noticed but gw2 competitions are just beginning with custom arenas. You would be one of first to start project like this, and because of that you should be much more flexible.

I understand can you outline more ways that we could be more flexible?

For example I think that players prefer to have only 5 people in team instead of 7.

- ~ Each round of tournament played over a week
- ~ Default time e.g. NA (8pm PST on Friday)
- ~ If teams cannot organise a time before default time they must play at default time
- #Minimum amount of players per team 5?

Thanks for your post, I’ve added more rules from what I’m posting here:

I will place a note but I think it’s still necessary that teams have substitutes because usually each round of the tournament is played over a week and it’s hard to organise teams for optimal time arrangements so this could mean that teams would have to play at a time when they don’t have their starting 5 players.

You are going in right direction. The less limitation teams have the better. Team can have substitute, but 5 minimum is best rule.
Also about 32 teams, I’m not sure gw2 have that many teams ready to play in serious leagues. In future if it become more popular, who knows maybe new teams will be born.
In my opinion if you have 16 teams best model would be 4 groups of 4 teams, first 2 teams from each group advance to knock out tournament phase.
But I’m not sure euro or american server can have this many teams interested for now. Maybe if they combined somehow.

IceTenacious.4126:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

I think with a higher player pool it allows the more amateur teams will get some experience outside of scrimmages.

So you mean that by having a lot of teams there is the possibility that the newer teams will be able to play against them and get some experience? I think the problem is that there aren’t very many teams.

Watching the same teams that everyone is already aware exist, play each other over and over won’t be entertaining.

By watching, what do you mean?

As in statistically (from their scores) or of streams?

Because I don’t think anyone has touched on streaming and I don’t understand how the spectator mode works; can someone can elaborate on streaming potential?

I was looking at the future. If some of the tournament organizers only invite teams that are known throughout the community that’s what we’ll get. Sign ups, registrations, and quals are where this game is at.

If we want an esport “scene” we need to grow it together.

And the lack of teams can be solved by Sign-ups/registrations. However many sign up/register for NA (since we know there is a lack of teams) you can just have a minimum of 16 and maximum of 32.

Odd numbers can be solved with byes. If you want EU, and NA to be on the same schedule start NA a little after EU. Just a thought.

Duncanmix.5238:

You are going in right direction. The less limitation teams have the better. Team can have substitute, but 5 minimum is best rule.

Ok. Hmm, I agree.

- Each team has 5 starting players with 2 substitutes #Decrease amount of substitutes, or increase the amount of substitutes fielded from other teams or remove substitutes altogether #Minimum amount of players per team: 5?

Note added.

Also about 32 teams, I’m not sure gw2 have that many teams ready to play in serious leagues. In future if it become more popular, who knows maybe new teams will be born.
In my opinion if you have 16 teams best model would be 4 groups of 4 teams, first 2 teams from each group advance to knock out tournament phase.
But I’m not sure euro or american server can have this many teams interested for now. Maybe if they combined somehow.

- #Group-based single elimination tournament
- #16 teams minimum
- #4 groups of 4 teams, top two teams from groups advance to elimination tournament

I doubt we can have cross-regional tournaments – it would be too much of a hassle for players.

Thanks for your post and ideas

EoNxBoNx.9213:

I was looking at the future. If some of the tournament organizers only invite teams that are known throughout the community that’s what we’ll get. Sign ups, registrations, and quals are where this game is at.

- #Team sign-ups (not invite only)

I was heading this way but I wasn’t being very explicit.

And the lack of teams can be solved by Sign-ups/registrations. However many sign up/register for NA (since we know there is a lack of teams) you can just have a minimum of 16 and maximum of 32.

I doubt we have to worry too much about maximums but I’ve got minimums already listed:

- Even number of teams, atleast 32 teams #maybe decrease amount of teams needed for NA and maybe EU

Odd numbers can be solved with byes.

Added.

- #Byes if odd

If you want EU, and NA to be on the same schedule start NA a little after EU. Just a thought.

I think you misunderstood what I meant by scheduling. The problem is if two teams are playing each other not all players will be able to play against each other at certain times. Maybe a team cannot organise a time before default so they have to play at default time and one of their players cannot make default so they will need a substitute unless they want to forfeit. I think that problem can be solved by allowing teams to field substitutes from other teams; this minimises the chance a team has to forfeit but there still can be the problem where a team has a player who cannot make the default time but there substitute/s cannot play because they are one of the starting 5 players from the opposing team or are scheduled to play a match at the same time.

With regards to your quote, I think scheduling for each region shouldn’t be a problem because an EU match won’t affect a NA match. Since players from NA won’t be able to play in EU if they’re playing in the NA tournament or vice versa.

Note: NA players in the NA tournament, vice versa but their might be a few exceptions.

Thanks for your post!

Here is the thing, there is more then enough players for a lot of teams, but because the actual game itself hasn’t forced people into team rankings people are just solo playing. So the game is very limited at least for now for teams.

Also I would not do a draft the community is not that close that everyone knows everyone outside of the top players likely having a decent idea about eachother.

DevO.9854:

Here is the thing, there is more then enough players for a lot of teams, but because the actual game itself hasn’t forced people into team rankings people are just solo playing. So the game is very limited at least for now for teams.

Also I would not do a draft the community is not that close that everyone knows everyone outside of the top players likely having a decent idea about eachother.

True, but I don’t think random placement would be fair either. I know ranking doesn’t show skill level but it does show how long you have played this game. Maybe we could distribute teams based on ranking? Even then some people could fake their rank and there could be problems but I don’t see a better solution.

Phantaram.1265:

On EU, I actually think you could achieve 32 teams, but a lot of them would be quite inexperienced and probably some pugs forming just to participate in tournaments. Even in top 16 on eu you will have some low quality games

Currently there are more than 16 teams in eu.. i would bet more than 32.

I got the point why u say there are few teams, matchmaking finds you to play always the same 5 teams but outside these 5 there are more and more you could find with a better matchmaking, the mm we have is worse than gw1

If you build it they will come. I’m sure I could dig my old team out of the dust for this or even make a new one. I do not think 4 teams would be hard to come by. 16 would be a little more difficult but if the tourney was over a couple weeks and teams could figure out times they both could play then I definitely think something like this would be possible.

We need more things like this in NA, even if it starts small or takes a bunch of effort to get off the ground. The NA scene really needs something to give people incentive to form up actual set teams. So, I hope this does take off.

The big problem currently is that, unless you’re a part of the “in crowd” of the super puggers, it’s nearly impossible to find 4 other people willing to commit to a team with a set practice schedule. I’ve tried lately, and it sucks. More tourneys or a custom league system might help fix that, but it would be slow going at first.

Honestly as of right now, in terms of actual turnout, I think your draft tourney idea would go over better in NA than a set team tourney

For teams to be created there needs to be incentives. As of last patch these incentives are getting created by the community itself. But it is more esport-oriented. Anet should add reasons to team up too (casually/esport). This would contain team/solo split, daily/weekly/monthly AT with better rewards!

Anyway another +1 for this initiative.

bump for my homies

Nettle.9025:

We need more things like this in NA, even if it starts small or takes a bunch of effort to get off the ground. The NA scene really needs something to give people incentive to form up actual set teams. So, I hope this does take off.

The big problem currently is that, unless you’re a part of the “in crowd” of the super puggers, it’s nearly impossible to find 4 other people willing to commit to a team with a set practice schedule. I’ve tried lately, and it sucks. More tourneys or a custom league system might help fix that, but it would be slow going at first.

Honestly as of right now, in terms of actual turnout, I think your draft tourney idea would go over better in NA than a set team tourney

I understand your concern. I was actually apart of this “super pugger” crowd and I remember how some players were shunned from pugs because they were inexperienced. Hopefully with these types of tournaments more players are able to band together and learn to play.

I agree, I think we might have to do different things for each regions.

butch.8136:

For teams to be created there needs to be incentives. As of last patch these incentives are getting created by the community itself. But it is more esport-oriented. Anet should add reasons to team up too (casually/esport). This would contain team/solo split, daily/weekly/monthly AT with better rewards!

Anyway another +1 for this initiative.

Thanks, maybe you should bring this issue up with ANet because I’m sure other people will support your idea and ANet will listen to the community.

SovereignHegemony.4160:

bump for my homies

Cheers.