Guild Wars 2

I honestly think the patch did quite a bit and is helping the balance.

Warrior: It helped get rid of a lot of the broken stun mechanics that could be used. I think stun-locking will still be viable, but not nearly as broken as it was.

Thief: S/D evades are still a bit unreasonable, but their boon strip has been knocked down to 1 for LS which definitely helps. Perhaps we’ll see a pistol main hand build in the meta now for the lockdown (I believe there already was one for condi-damage but I’ve never seen in it a team queue before).

Necromancer: Not a whole lot done aside from QoL things and siphoning. I still believe a previous patch fixed necros mostly; I don’t find them to be broken at all.

Elementalist: Just a lot of changes in general to support ele support. I’m unsure of whether or not they’ll be viable, but I think you’ll see a lot of testing with them and in general more gameplay (for tournaments though? That’s up in the air and will really be determined by what Demise and other ele’s think).

Engineer: Some good buffs for them. I feel like the bomb kit buff was necessary but I think overall they’re pretty strong right now which is good.

As for other classes…I don’t think much changed (edit: aside from ranger, which I didn’t look too deep into aside from pet changes; AND Guardian; lots of good stuff with them that will better their overall play which is great!), which can be good or bad.

I just want to post this so I can see how many people reply with their complaints about broken classes; because right now there is no “one” “God-Like” class that shines above all else.

EDIT: I got a reply for this in another thread about the Warrior. This was in reference to the paralyzation sigil that was absolutely broken, especially on a build like Crysis runs. I think escaping stun-locks like such will be easier, especially with the fix on getting out of launches/knockbacks immediately after you pop your stun break (which was very annoying previously).

And here all I’m reading is “wahhh, pvp is broken/ignored” or “wahhh, my build can’t kill people in one hit.”

Stark.1350:

And here all I’m reading is “wahhh, pvp is broken/ignored” or “wahhh, my build can’t kill people in one hit.”

I’m curious as to where you read that at? I stated that I thought nothing was broken and all is in good balance aside from some tweaks that could be made. I really think PvP looks good right now.

I like how your analysis completely ignored the ranger. This patch was pathetic for all the fuss that was made about it, and it’s not giving PvP the help it needs fast enough.

You want to know what is a good pvp patch for me, STRUCTURED PVP CONTAINED ! Like arena, like new game mode, like new map (But I hate new map without new mode).

Well, this patch is not pvp. Sorry ! And PvP players will be endangered species soon !

Leuca.5732:

I like how your analysis completely ignored the ranger. This patch was pathetic for all the fuss that was made about it, and it’s not giving PvP the help it needs fast enough.

I edited it a little. I didn’t look too deep into Rangers. They’d been changed significantly in a previous patch and not a lot was done aside from improving Sic ’Em greatly and some significant pet changes.

I don’t think Rangers needed much? Spirits are still viable and work well; power Ranger works decently.

tichorum.2415:

I just want to post this so I can see how many QQers reply with their complaints about what they can’t beat; because right now there is no “one” “God-Like” class that shines above all else.

Yes, everything is ok, there is only a small problem with the condition build (high damage, bust damage, and high resistance). But it’s ok.

Let me guess, you are using a condition build, right?

All I read here is I’m a pro you are just qq’er everything is fine type nonsense that is rampant on these boards from a few people. It usually comes from people that do nothing but run in organized groups and win all the time so what do they care. Go do a couple hundred solo q matches and get back to me.

Edeor.9720:

tichorum.2415:

I just want to post this so I can see how many QQers reply with their complaints about what they can’t beat; because right now there is no “one” “God-Like” class that shines above all else.

Yes, everything is ok, there is only a small problem with the condition build (high damage, bust damage, and high resistance). But it’s ok.

Let me guess, you are using a condition build, right?

No. I am not using a condition build. What do you mean high resistance?

Elementalist: Just a lot of changes in general to support ele support. I’m unsure of whether or not they’ll be viable, but I think you’ll see a lot of testing with them and in general more gameplay (for tournaments though? That’s up in the air and will really be determined by what Demise and other ele’s think).

After playing for a bit, I can tell you that pretty much nothing has changed. Staff Ele’s still have an overwhelming weakness to Warrior/Ranger/Necro. Quite a few things about Staff were actually nerfed. I was really excited for this patch in hopes that more would be coming besides just the Unsteady Ground change, which is great, but so much more is needed. The Water Blast wasn’t a buff, as it literally does near nothing in damage and radius so it won’t be used. Earth Shield so far has been neat, but I really really hate having to drop my ~20 skills for only 5. What they should have done was let the One with Air trait ignore immobilize too, which would’ve fixed one of the biggest weaknesses to staff.

Kwll.1468:

All I read here is I’m a pro you are just qq’er everything is fine type nonsense that is rampant on these boards from a few people. It usually comes from people that do nothing but run in organized groups and win all the time so what do they care. Go do a couple hundred solo q matches and get back to me.

I’m unsure of where I said “I’m the best and better than you”. I run with an organized team, but we don’t win all the time because there are other good teams.

I do solo queue when I have time. Ranked 95, best rank is 1. Unsure of where solo queue comes into this equation though. I’m stating what I believe the patch did and how I think it benefited PvP.

waited 2 months for this patch and all mesmers got for spvp that matters was a nerf to our only competitive spec (iDuelist)

Just went back and looked over the mesmer patch notes for the last 4 months, all the balance changes combined dont add up to 1 decent patch note.

S/P got ether renewaled, nerfed harder than 100nades.
I am so disappoint. Bet there were some good stuff in the patch but my eyes are only on this unnecessary massacre.

Ryld.1340:

Elementalist: Just a lot of changes in general to support ele support. I’m unsure of whether or not they’ll be viable, but I think you’ll see a lot of testing with them and in general more gameplay (for tournaments though? That’s up in the air and will really be determined by what Demise and other ele’s think).

After playing for a bit, I can tell you that pretty much nothing has changed. Staff Ele’s still have an overwhelming weakness to Warrior/Ranger/Necro. Quite a few things about Staff were actually nerfed. I was really excited for this patch in hopes that more would be coming besides just the Unsteady Ground change, which is great, but so much more is needed. The Water Blast wasn’t a buff, as it literally does near nothing in damage and radius so it won’t be used. Earth Shield so far has been neat, but I really really hate having to drop my ~20 skills for only 5. What they should have done was let the One with Air trait ignore immobilize too, which would’ve fixed one of the biggest weaknesses to staff.

I haven’t gotten around to playing it, so perhaps you are right. I just watched the video and read patch notes and putting that into my head it looks like a lot of support was given to the staff ele. Perhaps I’m wrong on that, I wouldn’t be the best one to ask; it’s just what I grabbed from all of the notes.

tichorum.2415:

Stark.1350:

And here all I’m reading is “wahhh, pvp is broken/ignored” or “wahhh, my build can’t kill people in one hit.”

I’m curious as to where you read that at? I stated that I thought nothing was broken and all is in good balance aside from some tweaks that could be made. I really think PvP looks good right now.

He meant the rest of the forums seem convinced that everything is unfair.

I agree with your assessments. These changes were thought out well and while some of them maybe don’t go quite far enough, I’d rather have half now, half later than a huge nerf/buff patch RIGHT NOW that introduces new godmodes.

Rangers are still very strong in a spirit build and I’ve even seen more zerker rangers besides just Eurantien recently. They seem to do well against regen warriors (I can’t call them bunkers as they don’t have any bunkering tools, just regen), but I’ve never played one so I can’t say that for sure.

Eles are probably not quite back yet, but they’re already much better off with fix to stun warrior and nerf to larcenous strike.

ensoriki.5789:

S/P got ether renewaled, nerfed harder than 100nades.
I am so disappoint. Bet there were some good stuff in the patch but my eyes are only on this unnecessary massacre.

Its a WvW nerf, I’m almost certain.

tichorum.2415:

I edited it a little. I didn’t look too deep into Rangers. They’d been changed significantly in a previous patch and not a lot was done aside from improving Sic ’Em greatly and some significant pet changes.

I don’t think Rangers needed much? Spirits are still viable and work well; power Ranger works decently.

Sic ‘Em still bugs out when combined with other skill activations, meaning it’s literally only used for the reveal now, and no person with common sense is going to use a power-based ranger competitively.

You don’t think Rangers needed much? The entire game needs much from a PvP perspective. This patch was unacceptable to fix the issues that are currently in place.

Unless you can convince me that there are solid team comps that aren’t Guardian Warrior Ranger Thief X (where Warrior is a good choice for X), I don’t think balance is in a good spot just yet.

Leuca.5732:

tichorum.2415:

I edited it a little. I didn’t look too deep into Rangers. They’d been changed significantly in a previous patch and not a lot was done aside from improving Sic ’Em greatly and some significant pet changes.

I don’t think Rangers needed much? Spirits are still viable and work well; power Ranger works decently.

Sic ‘Em still bugs out when combined with other skill activations, meaning it’s literally only used for the reveal now, and no person with common sense is going to use a power-based ranger competitively.

You don’t think Rangers needed much? The entire game needs much from a PvP perspective. This patch was unacceptable to fix the issues that are currently in place.

Well don’t leave me hanging. What do you think needs fixing?

As for Rangers, at high level play they do well and aren’t broken, nor are they to the point where they aren’t useful. Spirits are obviously the best build for them and seeing more viable builds would be nice, but I think that’s what ArenaNet is working towards.

cymerdown.4103:

Unless you can convince me that there are solid team comps that aren’t Guardian Warrior Ranger Thief X (where Warrior is a good choice for X), I don’t think balance is in a good spot just yet.

Nah Ken. I thought this patch was a step in the right direction; and in the midst of all the anger posts, I thought I’d post about what I think it did well.

The weakest links (ele and mesmer) are still needing a fixing IMO.

Stark.1350:

And here all I’m reading is “wahhh, pvp is broken/ignored” or “wahhh, my build can’t kill people in one hit.”

wahhh, my toothpick is broken. wahhh, why can’t my toothpick clean my teefs?

Sorry man, best I’ve got atm.

tichorum.2415:

Nah Ken. I thought this patch was a step in the right direction; and in the midst of all the anger posts, I thought I’d post about what I think it did well.

The weakest links (ele and mesmer) are still needing a fixing IMO.

Understandable. I was hoping for at least an adjustment to Healing Sig and a cast time added for Skull Crack, since those seemed kinda obviously needed. But hey, next patch maybe.

Vena.8436:

ensoriki.5789:

S/P got ether renewaled, nerfed harder than 100nades.
I am so disappoint. Bet there were some good stuff in the patch but my eyes are only on this unnecessary massacre.

Its a WvW nerf, I’m almost certain.

I haven’t done WvW in quite awhile but from what I’ve picked up mixed with what was reality back then. S/P was less common in WvW from Oct-Haste nerf then it was in spvp, and even more so afterwards.

I think they just forgot about all the other stun skills in their effort to appease complaints about the warrior. Multiple daze/CC skills/traits have been nerfed and you have to consider how many of them had any complaints? Ranger has a 50% duration increase on stun/daze if I recall that no one trips over because ranger stuns are 1s at best, all that did is bring them to 2s, and now they’re 1.5s. Did they need the nerf? Probably not.

Warrior take a buff where he definitly need a nerf.
Generally, all actually broken class take a buff (ranger, necro, engi).
Thief take a nerf on buff stealth which is deserved, but some other nerfs which he doenst deserve.
Guardian take little buff.
Mesmer is intouched as Elem (which would be good, if broken build (stun lock, ranger spirit …) has been nerfed)

(elementalist posting)

Except for QoL kitten, nothing really changed. Conjures are not kits, so you give up 20 mediocre skills for 5 even more mediocre skills; the staff is still a free kill etc.

But I will say, WELL PLAYED, Arenanet.

You manage to string us a long for nearly a month about a patch that has nothing of any significance. Speaking obviously as an ele.

silvermember.8941:

But I will say, WELL PLAYED, Arenanet.
You manage to string us a long for nearly a month about a patch that has nothing of any significance. Speaking obviously as an ele.

Not ONE month but FOUR ^^
We’re waiting since june’s patch

just another 3-4 months til next patch guys, it’s so close, you’ll pull through!

and i guess still no eventskins in tourney reward chest…. its a to little step to actual improve reward for playing pvp that it get ignored till complete overhaul and move all spvp-players who want certain skins to grind pve. thx again for nothing anet

tichorum.2415:

I honestly think the patch did quite a bit and is helping the balance.

Thief: S/D evades are still a bit unreasonable, but their boon strip has been knocked down to 1 for LS which definitely helps. Perhaps we’ll see a pistol main hand build in the meta now for the lockdown (I believe there already was one for condi-damage but I’ve never seen in it a team queue before).

Acro S/P will probably see more play now since they nerfed the boon strip on LS. It will have the same amount of dodges, the same amount of pressure, and the same amount of disengage as a S/D thief. Mostly because of sword main hand, and 30 in to acro.

EDIT: Or, people will just drop S/D completely and just play D/P, and maybe some venom share with S/P.

tichorum.2415:

Well don’t leave me hanging. What do you think needs fixing?

As for Rangers, at high level play they do well and aren’t broken, nor are they to the point where they aren’t useful. Spirits are obviously the best build for them and seeing more viable builds would be nice, but I think that’s what ArenaNet is working towards.

Traits for all professions need a ton of work, various weapon sets across all professions need work (including ones that have literally been ignored since the game’s release, for whatever reason), utilities across all professions, core profession mechanics, the condi meta (including how condi damage is even calculated), the targeting system (though it looks like they’re starting to make changes), the frequency of stuns vs required stunbreaks ratio, and I could go on. If I had to list all the issues within those vague guidelines, I’d be writing a book. This patch barely scratched the surface, didn’t even significantly change the meta, and it was supposed to be an extremely significant balance update that was postponed because of PAX.

The worst part is that many of these issues were obvious problems that were given feedback on during beta, before the game was even released, which means the game was released before it was even close to being ready from a PvP perspective.

I strongly suggest you check out each of the related subforums for PvP/Professions and find the posts that aren’t mindless rage; many of them will provide at least a bit of insight.

hello,

i see a lot of ppl complaining….nearly about everything, how would it be, if ppl would start playing, instead of typing? even, if some builds are easier to play, than others, it depends just on player, if a build/clas is played good, or bad ( my opinion )….according to my experiences it is possible to play succesfully every class against every class, just again it depends on the players

i can understand that some builds like warri/cc, or thief sd, or mes condi/phantasm, or engi cc/bunker, or guard bunker are realy annoying to play against, but well played every class is able to beat those builds, even if it is very difficult compared to the effort you need to bring playing against them…i think, that we as players need to deal with the given classes/build variety

i realy love and enjoy gw2 pvp, and im nearly pleased with the current situation (even if the same gametype over and over again is a bit boring)

Why would anyone play a venom build?! venoms are terrible… they exist only to fill the minimum number of utilities…

I am finding that immob stacking is very, very good for burst builds. Once you get them stuck blow em up!

It helps Ele a lot with Elemental Surge, Sig of Earth, D/D or some other combination

Volrath.1473:

Why would anyone play a venom build?! venoms are terrible… they exist only to fill the minimum number of utilities…

Did you ever 1V1 a thief running venon share and thief’s guild ? i guess not

livlaender.8790:

hello,

i see a lot of ppl complaining….nearly about everything, how would it be, if ppl would start playing, instead of typing?

Because we’ve spent countless hours theorycrafting and playing in an attempt to find something that can really change the direction of this game and have come up dry. The PvP in this game is stagnant and this patch did little to change that after about 4 months of waiting.

cymerdown.4103:

Unless you can convince me that there are solid team comps that aren’t Guardian Warrior Ranger Thief X (where Warrior is a good choice for X), I don’t think balance is in a good spot just yet.

Wait…so your idea of balance not being a good spot is where you can have 4 different classes and your choice of w/e you want?

When there is 8 class, and that the 4 that we have to take MUST use ONE SPECIFIC build … NO

BurrTheKing.8571:

cymerdown.4103:

Unless you can convince me that there are solid team comps that aren’t Guardian Warrior Ranger Thief X (where Warrior is a good choice for X), I don’t think balance is in a good spot just yet.

Wait…so your idea of balance not being a good spot is where you can have 4 different classes and your choice of w/e you want?

Shouldn’t that be “balance” itself? Allowing to have teams formed around what classes they want to play with the spec they want to for different team comps, rather than having to play a specific class because it’s a must-have in a team comp.

Right now there is variety with team comps, more-so than there was a month or two ago. But there is a lot of room for improvement.

Leuca.5732:

livlaender.8790:

hello,

i see a lot of ppl complaining….nearly about everything, how would it be, if ppl would start playing, instead of typing?

Because we’ve spent countless hours theorycrafting and playing in an attempt to find something that can really change the direction of this game and have come up dry. The PvP in this game is stagnant and this patch did little to change that after about 4 months of waiting.

The game was dominated by condis, then almost a month after a patch Warrior start bringing M+S/GS and Ham/Bow to totally crush conditions. The meta HAS changed, and it came about with buffs rather than nerfs. Conditions are still viable as are lockdowns, and both have counters.

Yeah, keep in mind also warrior is really doubly nerfed by sigil of para since damage is so high on stunned targets. Unsuspecting foe and merciless hammer traits are both indirectly nerfed in efficacy. Skullcrack+100b is nerfed because you won’t get full duration 100b now (and the last hit is the largest).

We’ll need to play this some to figure out how it feels for sure.

Mattmatt.4962:

Volrath.1473:

Why would anyone play a venom build?! venoms are terrible… they exist only to fill the minimum number of utilities…

Did you ever 1V1 a thief running venon share and thief’s guild ? i guess not

why?! did you LOSE to one?! LoL that’s hilarious!! how bad can you play?!

tichorum.2415:

BurrTheKing.8571:

cymerdown.4103:

Unless you can convince me that there are solid team comps that aren’t Guardian Warrior Ranger Thief X (where Warrior is a good choice for X), I don’t think balance is in a good spot just yet.

Wait…so your idea of balance not being a good spot is where you can have 4 different classes and your choice of w/e you want?

Shouldn’t that be “balance” itself? Allowing to have teams formed around what classes they want to play with the spec they want to for different team comps, rather than having to play a specific class because it’s a must-have in a team comp.

Right now there is variety with team comps, more-so than there was a month or two ago. But there is a lot of room for improvement.

I don’t see the problem, almost every class is now viable or needed in a team. That “X” slot is where variety comes in. If X is a Mesmer, than a dual Warrior team will have problems because both Thief and Mesmer can counter them. Likewise if a team takes 2 necros then that dual Warrior team will have an edge. But even if your team starts out with a disadvantage you can still win if you play better.

Now we just need more options/rewards in PvP and I’ll probably be pleased.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to say that you guys are having a similar discussion to what we’re having internally.

Yes, the Warriors are pushing some of the condition builds out of the meta, but with our sigil of para fix, those same warriors will now be losing a little damage and a little control.

We need to give it a little while to see how the meta settles. Then we’ll be putting in trait improvement and skill improvements.

We felt the Warrior would eventually rise up to become the class it is now (it took a while for people to catch on), but once you guys figured it out, they did what we expected them to do.

Now we need to see where you guys (and the meta) go next.

Im gland that you managed to put the warrior they way you wanted all along and imo it is deserved. i think it is a very good professions and has a few viable builds unlike most of the other professions.

since I main a thief i would love to know what are your expectations for the thieves?! How do you feel it should be played?

just curious!

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to say that you guys are having a similar discussion to what we’re having internally.

Yes, the Warriors are pushing some of the condition builds out of the meta, but with our sigil of para fix, those same warriors will now be losing a little damage and a little control.

We need to give it a little while to see how the meta settles. Then we’ll be putting in trait improvement and skill improvements.

We felt the Warrior would eventually rise up to become the class it is now (it took a while for people to catch on), but once you guys figured it out, they did what we expected them to do.

Now we need to see where you guys (and the meta) go next.

Jonathan, don’t you think Warriors are just a little over the top at the moment? Such as the amount of sustain available even when playing glassy? The mobility/escapes from the gap closers in sword/GS where most classes require targeting for those skills to work? How short the cooldown is on some of the cc? Zerker stance stopping all condi’s instead of negative duration (isn’t this a bug, if so why isn’t it fixed?)

I know you guys like to look at the metrics and let things settle… but seriously, it’s been months… Surely you guys are aware of how much this has also affected wvw with increased stats…

JonathanSharp.7094:

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

Jonathan, don’t you think Warriors are just a little over the top at the moment? Such as the amount of sustain available even when playing glassy? The mobility/escapes from the gap closers in sword/GS where most classes require targeting for those skills to work? How short the cooldown is on some of the cc? Zerker stance stopping all condi’s instead of negative duration (isn’t this a bug, if so why isn’t it fixed?)

I know you guys like to look at the metrics and let things settle… but seriously, it’s been months… Surely you guys are aware of how much this has also affected wvw with increased stats…

Thanks for the thoughts!

Yes, Warrior is pretty beefy right now, and can dish out strong aoe CC with some specs. We’ll have to watch to see if any counters crop up to deal with it in the next few weeks. I do think the build is strong, and we’re watching it very closely.

If you’ll recall, Berserk’s stance was brought in at a 6s duration (and very few people ran it), and then went to an 8s duration. This was enough to get people to start trying to make a build around it, and this lead to the current sustain/cc Warrior that’s so powerful right now.

That duration may need to come down, now that their traits align and give them VERY strong sustain due to multiple sources or regen. It’s working as it’s intended right now, but the duration is longer than it was previously.

TL:DR – We’re watching Warriors very closely right now and waiting to see how the meta adjusts.

Thank you for the response Jonathan! Glad to know you are atleast monitoring the situation. From both a pvp and wvw perspective, I have seen this become more and more dominant, to the point you really have to outplay some warriors with lower skill levels, simply due to their build carrying them and it having room for mistakes. I have had some great fights with warriors, being careful with timing and ensuring you make no mistakes can be challenging, but it doesn’t feel like focus to keep that defense up is equal to the benefit of having so many numerical benefits/passive buffs warriors have at the moment.

Regarding zerker stance, I am a little confused. I was under the impression this is meant to reduce condi duration by 100% (so a necro applying a 10s bleed with +50% duration would apply a fifteen second bleed during this period), but is currently bugged and makes you immune to condi’s during this time. I admit I haven’t tested this over the last few days or since patch, but can you confirm if this is a bug/intentional etc?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker_Stance

Edit: word filters changed this post to kitten bleeds… o.o

^ “X amount of condi-time” minus 100% is 0

14 – 100% is 0

9 – 100% is 0

9999999 – 100% is 0

Oh no, 8 seconds of not being able to face spam conditions on the warrior? =[

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

^ “X amount of condi-time” minus 100% is 0

14 – 100% is 0

9 – 100% is 0

9999999 – 100% is 0

Oh no, 8 seconds of not being able to face spam conditions on the warrior? =[

So + condi duration is essentially a isolated function from – condi duration? That seems odd, regardless thank you for the response.