Guild Wars 2

Just came back to the game for a couple of days testing the HoT warrior.

I am not a developer of any kind so I have no idea of what went wrong, but there seem to be a glitch in your latest update.

- I was very concerned, because I wouldn’t haste to any conclusion. So I did some research in form of playing the game, and I figured out that the dh guardian wasn’t a joke. They overdid themselves, and I respect that grown men and women dare to reform ethics, when it comes to young people and their money. Because you know for a fact, that no one bought the game in order to have classes with radical overpowered abilities. It’s alright, that the mesmers block-while-attacking defense exists, although they, historically, always had an op form of advantage in their clone form, portal mobility etc. That’s alright. But the “new guardian” in HoT manage to surprise me.

It’s hard to sum up ALL the abilities that make it in the same category as the old “turret engi”-build, but we are very close. The solid next-to-no effort put into its gameplay, is shocking.

Share your thoughts, link salt in my inbox, type xD in the chat, link whatever you find constructive.

I don’t need a nerf on the guardian, but the community does.

Anet, you owe a proper, and fast skill adjustment team. Stop favorising any class, and try to understand your own game. This was a sloppy work, and diss to everyone playing this game.

Sincerely

And another one how cant dodge
Srsly have u ever playing in high Tiers ?
Oh i forget u take and break and first thing u do is asking for a nerf.
BtW DH DONT get any buffs from the last Patch

I am referring to HoT as a whole. There are traps to avoid, unblockable traps. The arrows, the shield of judgement. Some other things. And dodging their ability is not the problem. But thx for your input. And no I never played high tier pvp.

Should have come back sooner when your class was present in queue 2 to 3 per team.

@kuya, what do you refer to?

You missed the condi war meta.

Anyways, as I never had any experience with high tier pvp, and I am not able to dodge, I think we solved the problem about the DH guardian.

This sums up the fall of the democratic system, as its voters currently vote for trump, fail to embrace intellectualism, and the DH guardian is now something, that dodging will solve ( an l2p issue).

Let’s talk about democracy. As this sums up the majority of the community, and due to Anets way of dealing with things, the competetive scene of this game, will fall with the average player and its need.

I am surprised, that I havn’t seen an xd (not used as a meme) smiley yet in this debate, because that would raise the level of this conversation.

If anyone else have anything to say that doesn’t include other classes as a contrast, to the solution, or an l2p issue, i’d be happy to read it.

Else it will end up in my block list, like the 300 others.

Anyone keeping count of guard threads?

Just like any other mmo, we also have a “flavor of the month”. While DH is easy to play, overall its not good enough to make it mandatory for ESL teams.

DH can be quite frustrating to fight against of you are a thief or mesmer, and I do think its sustain and cc need a bit shaving. However DH is just another result of HoT powercreep and most classes can be a pain to deal with.

@akaCryptic I get your point. But lets say the ESL team is a 100% skill in their combination. You take 5 random players with their own build. They manage to reach 30% of that skill. You take those 5 players and let them play let’s say 1 ranger 4 DH. And you reach 70% skill.

It’s a weird way of giving you a perspective. But it’s like the turret engi back in the days.

Obviously there will be people being better at playing DH than others, but currently anything that is not structured by the 5 man meta, the DH will over-do.

The class can do everything people take 2-3x effort to do.

The classes max ability might only be at 80% as a max, and therefore not going on the esl team. The skill cap is not high enough.

So it takes people 2-3x the skill to play as well as people who never played the game.

It’s a no risk, full reward class, that needs to be dealth with.

Here we go again.

So, which DH build are you talking about?

@Kuya, I didn’t know they were different. The dmg dealing one. Are people really traiting as they want, and still making it viable? Oh.

It’s problematic how you manage to come up with nothing but a weak form of input to this debate.

Are you trying to start a new debate? Do you think it’s a skill-based class? Does it matter what I play?

try read Toulmin/argumentation

Chukree.1756:

I am referring to HoT as a whole. There are traps to avoid, unblockable traps. The arrows, the shield of judgement. Some other things. And dodging their ability is not the problem. But thx for your input. And no I never played high tier pvp.

Only 1 trap is unblockable (and requires you to cross its bounds to do damage), the rest are absolutely blockable. As for the arrors, they are poor in effect if you bring blocks, blinds, reflects, or be sure to stand so targets are not behind you. When the DH is doing that “Ranger Barrage” like animation, dodge the 3rd pulse of it, and you will avoid the netting. Also avoid the DH’s “charge-shot.”

Chukree.1756:

@Kuya, I didn’t know they were different. The dmg dealing one. Are people really traiting as they want, and still making it viable? Oh.

There’s 3 reasonably meta DH builds.

> Marauder symbolic – on point deepz from symbols, test of faith and melee range (because scepter really isn’t great for hitting anything past a node diameter) damage. Weak to ranged classes, goes even with scrappers.

> Mender symbolic – on point node control and party support. Trades deepz for healz. Basically a bunker build. You may see them run fragments of faith for stability on trigger and more aegis heal (since it scales well with healing power) as well as shelter (to force people off point so it flips).

> Marauder LB Meditrapper – the old lb meditrapper build, but now with sword/focus instead of gs.

All DH builds are weak vs good revs, softcountered by druid and tend to be either softcountered or even with scrapper. The marauder builds can also be countered with various power warrior builds.

They can sometimes be countered with heavy condi damage once below 50% HP so they die while channelling their invulnerability elite, however against a condi heavy team most will pick the trait that condi clears on block or run an additional cleanse utility instead of JI.

I think Anet just messed up with the design of the DH class. They’re encouraging way too much passive gameplay, where you lay your traps down and then pop enough blocks, blinds, invulnerabilities, healing, and what have you until your traps have killed the enemy.
Maybe chuck a spear to get them to cross your trap’s boundaries for more damage, but ultimately it’s just BORING and it’s a PAIN to fight against, especially since they deal SO MUCH AoE dmg.

Chukree.1756:

@Kuya, I didn’t know they were different.

Ah.

Those tears are even more than Niagara falls.
Once guardian take himself out of dust, the croud came back to put him in again…

They really need a thread about how to deal with DH.

“i don’t know, the damage dealing one”

…lol

Legiion.7385:

And another one how cant dodge
Srsly have u ever playing in high Tiers ?
Oh i forget u take and break and first thing u do is asking for a nerf.
BtW DH DONT get any buffs from the last Patch

yeah cause you can totally have a dh without it being a gaurdian right? also to all the jerks just being rude to the op obviously hes new. maybe give him some tips instead of just insulting and laughing.UBIK you did awesome.

I ‘ll just pop in to say THANK YOU to Chukree for an excellent post and discussion skills. Sadly, my english are poor to achieve the same quality. I 100% agree with everything you said. I main an ele so my tears are extra salty, but I switched to warrior this season. The skills needed to play an average Dragoncancer are below anything else, even condi warrior, which seems to me so easy to play compared to ele (ofc personal opinion, others may not share it). I mean, kitten , some of them don’t even move! Cancertrap, cancertrap, unblockable-cancershot, cancerblock, cancerblock, continuous frontal cancerblock and somehow getting heals all the way! OK I shouldn’t mention heals as a condi warrior, but allow me some salt barrage.
But the biggest cancer of all is the class stacking! I mean OK, one dragoncancer is enough but its beatable, specially when they lack skill, but two???? You drop one and SHAZAM you have the other one pop cancerbubble! So he gets the EZ rez and here we go again… 4 ppl trying to get a freaking point from just 2 players (yeah I know, l2p).
But the one advice I love is “l2dodge”. You dragoncancers understand, I hope, that this stands only for the already placed traps on point, correct? So I have to blow my 2 dodges right from the start and then you just reapply traps with ZERO casting time on melee, without any chance of avoidance (except blocks IF they are already in place).

But when the steam through my ears stops emerging and I cool down, I remember playing ele with cele amulet and pre-nerfed diamond skin… So it’s just a cycle… the only constant thing is the incompetence of the balance team.

I don´t think DH is OP. I even think it´s a nice calss an there is some build diversity left in Guardian. But i agree that stacked DH can be realy problematic. DH is extreamly strong in fighting solo Q. There abilitis make them colse to or even OP in conquest with random teams. If the oposign team does not adapt they get smashed.

Christ, I don’t do it often, but now I logged in to type this comment.

To some point I agree with Excelvior and Chukree.

I’m quite good player (mostly playing Warr, Rev, Thief, Nec), not a pro, but I can handle dodges, rotations etc.

So I just wanna comment “l2p and dodge” thingy.

Dodge trueshot, dodge certain traps, dodge ranger barrage and dodge f3 pull. Like all of this makes you win a fight. In 1v1 failing to dodge one of those almost certainly loses you 1v1, but dodging perfectly doesn’t win it for you. Dodging double f3 (after focus) puts you with 0 dodges left (let’s say 25 endurance, becouse he cannot instantly press f3 twice).

Now in tf (2v2/3v3/3v2/2v3 w/e), if you are forced to use all dodges and blocks (becouse 2/3 dodges are not sufficient) just to avoid kittened dmg/cc from one dude is making you vulnerable af.

I’m not claming I’m not winning 1v1 or tf vs guardian or few of them, but fact that you need to play it great to just not lose it straight away is dumb.

I’m not here to say nerf guardian pls. DH clearly needs rework to makes some of his strong skills harder to land (smaller radius/some kind of place not target skills like trueshot), what will even “skill” in fights vs other proffesions and end salt.

Also, every time I come read comments and see those DH players who are laughing from “another DH thread” MAKES ME WANNA HORSE LAUGH (yeah Chris Mannix I’m talking to you)

Haha warrior is wanting nerf for a DH. Thats a new one.

I want then your HP regen nerf by 50%.

Chukree.1756:

I don’t need a nerf on the guardian, but the community does.
Sincerely

You just came back and know quite a lot about what the community needs? Dragonhunter might seem cheese to play, but is not OP in any way. Too easy to dodge and put them on CD. Like guardian, most elites got buffs in Elite spec. You seriously need to L2P more than anything.

BTW, i don’t play guard at all. Too boring for me.

SMH , OP comes back to game and after only 2 days feels he knows enough to post a thread about game balance.

DH always is a no brain design. You can see this class how op in S1 ESL. But people find 33% protection healing bot(ELE) and sustained ENG to make him go to eat dung in S1 S2 S3. Now that’s two bug(ELE,ENG) were kicking out from PVP. So they come back and stack together now.

So Come on. Stack Together Team~

sophiewhite.3149:

Legiion.7385:

And another one how cant dodge
Srsly have u ever playing in high Tiers ?
Oh i forget u take and break and first thing u do is asking for a nerf.
BtW DH DONT get any buffs from the last Patch

yeah cause you can totally have a dh without it being a gaurdian right? also to all the jerks just being rude to the op obviously hes new. maybe give him some tips instead of just insulting and laughing.UBIK you did awesome.

How can a player that came back after a break and say that the cpmmunity want a DH nerf ?^^
And most people are screaming about the DH mechanics that’s the reason why i said DH wasnt buffed.
And he didnt played in high Tier…but asking for a nerf

Legiion.7385:

sophiewhite.3149:

Legiion.7385:

And another one how cant dodge
Srsly have u ever playing in high Tiers ?
Oh i forget u take and break and first thing u do is asking for a nerf.
BtW DH DONT get any buffs from the last Patch

yeah cause you can totally have a dh without it being a gaurdian right? also to all the jerks just being rude to the op obviously hes new. maybe give him some tips instead of just insulting and laughing.UBIK you did awesome.

How can a player that came back after a break and say that the cpmmunity want a DH nerf ?^^
And most people are screaming about the DH mechanics that’s the reason why i said DH wasnt buffed.
And he didnt played in high Tier…but asking for a nerf

I play in high tiers and guard builds (DH IS part of the problem) are too rewarding for too little effort, period. Also, “high tiers” are flooded with (a lot of bad) guards, so no it is not just low divisions issue.

Cynz.9437:

Legiion.7385:

sophiewhite.3149:

Legiion.7385:

And another one how cant dodge
Srsly have u ever playing in high Tiers ?
Oh i forget u take and break and first thing u do is asking for a nerf.
BtW DH DONT get any buffs from the last Patch

yeah cause you can totally have a dh without it being a gaurdian right? also to all the jerks just being rude to the op obviously hes new. maybe give him some tips instead of just insulting and laughing.UBIK you did awesome.

How can a player that came back after a break and say that the cpmmunity want a DH nerf ?^^
And most people are screaming about the DH mechanics that’s the reason why i said DH wasnt buffed.
And he didnt played in high Tier…but asking for a nerf

I play in high tiers and guard builds (DH IS part of the problem) are too rewarding for too little effort, period. Also, “high tiers” are flooded with (a lot of bad) guards, so no it is not just low divisions issue.

I didnt mean you…..the OP didnt played in high tiers but he screams for a nerf.

I am referring to HoT as a whole. There are traps to avoid, unblockable traps. The arrows, the shield of judgement. Some other things. And dodging their ability is not the problem. But thx for your input. And no I never played high tier pvp.

This is the reason why a mmo never will have a good balancing.
But hey the OP know what the community want.

People talking about being new. I don’t want this argument to be about how much I play, what class I play, and an l2p issues. I am new to HoT, since I stopped after 10000 games on warrior in PvP 2012-13-14,5, 6000 hours spend, and 90% of them in what was considered top tier pvp back then top 5-10. I had a win percentage of 80%, with over 2000 wins, in the top 50 millenium board, which back then was the most winning player in the top 50. I played several warrior specs, some with more succes than others.

Last time I played I ended up in legendary with a 90%~ win rate and amber-legendary in 2-3 days.

I then quit. It was boring, and it seemed like the community was dead, and the same few people were in the top 5-10.

To the people talking about warrior nerfs etc:

People always struggle to see the warriors actual problem (mobility, and ez controlable, like the necros main problem, somewhat the ranger too), so I don’t want to talk about anything but the guardian right now.

The way I play is 50% of how I used to play. There are many new skills, new things to dodge, which I havn’t figured, but there are many things that havn’t changed, and that’s the way the different classes are being played.

I know that rangers counter the DH guardian because of the pet, from what I’ve heard, and I know they’re kite able to some extend. This doesn’t mean, that they’re in a good spot.

This build affects the solo queue in such a degree, that whoever has the most guardians, are most likely to win this match up.

This is like the turret engis back the days.

Anyone not running a complete counter class to the spec, or is an organized team, will land in those 10 k aoe traps at some point

People always think that it comes down to “dodging”, but you can’t dodge aoe spam from several people. And I can’t figure out a class that would be able to tank it either, trying to keep the point.

The DH’s might be less efficient in a graveyard point, but that’s the only point in the game, where their offense isn’t overshining any other dps class.

Here are some sources.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Your_Vote_Decides_the_Guild_Wars_2_International_All-Stars_Teams!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Top-100-Players-from-each-previous-leaderboard

And the legendary 499-500 game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOCvtFPgSZ8

Anyways. I tried to play the game.

Stuff like this. I can’t find old leaderboards doesn’t matter.

But people refer to “top tier pvp” as people in legendary, and that nullifies any argument apparantly.

Chukree.1756:

And I can’t figure out a class that would be able to tank it either, trying to keep the point.

I’ve only scrapper or another DH be able to hold point for a prolonged period (longer than 3-5 mins) vs a DH. A scrapper should be able to beat a DH, but it’ll be a long fight.

Druid will lose point due to stealth from CA. They won’t even come close to dying, but that doesn’t really matter since they can’t hold the point.

Warrior will either have to kill relatively quick or concede the point as well, the longer the fight lasts the better it is for the DH.

A power rev should be able to kill the DH provided they can avoid the initial burst.

Thief generally gets creamed.

Ele might survive for a while, especially vs a mender spec but will likely get killed the moment they get hit with a CC by a marasymbolic build.

Necro is a free kill if they’re solo for all DH specs.

I’m not sure how mesmer fares, I haven’t seen enough this season. Likely loses point but might be able to 100-0 the DH with a continuum split cc shatter combo or a condi bomb at 50% HP with their cleanses down.

Stacked DH is just ridiculous tbh and is imo a prime example of why anet need to introduce restrictions on class stacking in solo queue. Just as bad as the necro stacking in season 2 but with power damage instead of condis. Both classes had massive amounts of unavoidable AOE that synergised far too well together on the tiny little capture points.

Excelvior.8520:

I ‘ll just pop in to say THANK YOU to Chukree for an excellent post and discussion skills. Sadly, my english are poor to achieve the same quality. I 100% agree with everything you said. I main an ele so my tears are extra salty, but I switched to warrior this season. The skills needed to play an average Dragoncancer are below anything else, even condi warrior, which seems to me so easy to play compared to ele (ofc personal opinion, others may not share it). I mean, kitten , some of them don’t even move! Cancertrap, cancertrap, unblockable-cancershot, cancerblock, cancerblock, continuous frontal cancerblock and somehow getting heals all the way! OK I shouldn’t mention heals as a condi warrior, but allow me some salt barrage.
But the biggest cancer of all is the class stacking! I mean OK, one dragoncancer is enough but its beatable, specially when they lack skill, but two???? You drop one and SHAZAM you have the other one pop cancerbubble! So he gets the EZ rez and here we go again… 4 ppl trying to get a freaking point from just 2 players (yeah I know, l2p).
But the one advice I love is “l2dodge”. You dragoncancers understand, I hope, that this stands only for the already placed traps on point, correct? So I have to blow my 2 dodges right from the start and then you just reapply traps with ZERO casting time on melee, without any chance of avoidance (except blocks IF they are already in place).

But when the steam through my ears stops emerging and I cool down, I remember playing ele with cele amulet and pre-nerfed diamond skin… So it’s just a cycle… the only constant thing is the incompetence of the balance team.

Yes. All of what you just said. And l2 dodge? I don’t think I ever saw a DH guardian dodge.

Ubik.8315:

Chukree.1756:

And I can’t figure out a class that would be able to tank it either, trying to keep the point.

I’ve only scrapper or another DH be able to hold point for a prolonged period (longer than 3-5 mins) vs a DH. A scrapper should be able to beat a DH, but it’ll be a long fight.

Druid will lose point due to stealth from CA. They won’t even come close to dying, but that doesn’t really matter since they can’t hold the point.

Warrior will either have to kill relatively quick or concede the point as well, the longer the fight lasts the better it is for the DH.

A power rev should be able to kill the DH provided they can avoid the initial burst.

Thief generally gets creamed.

Ele might survive for a while, especially vs a mender spec but will likely get killed the moment they get hit with a CC by a marasymbolic build.

Necro is a free kill if they’re solo for all DH specs.

I’m not sure how mesmer fares, I haven’t seen enough this season. Likely loses point but might be able to 100-0 the DH with a continuum split cc shatter combo or a condi bomb at 50% HP with their cleanses down.

Stacked DH is just ridiculous tbh and is imo a prime example of why anet need to introduce restrictions on class stacking in solo queue. Just as bad as the necro stacking in season 2 but with power damage instead of condis. Both classes had massive amounts of unavoidable AOE that synergised far too well together on the tiny little capture points.

“But, I think we’re dealing with a l2 dodge issue”

Ragnarox.9601:

Haha warrior is wanting nerf for a DH. Thats a new one.

I want then your HP regen nerf by 50%.

Hp regen is the only thing keeping warriors alive in this game. Before healing signet, the warrior was out of this game. Then then nerfed it, because hammer war was overpowered, because of the sustain, 1 v 1 abilities, and good team fighting. They also managed to buff other classes at the same time. Making sure rifle celest engis, mesmer thief (now reve), and ele, were now the meta again. God forbid anything else 4Head.

But we can swap ?

You get the warrior healing signet, and I get your meditation heal+your active heal.

This thread is full of kittens. Guard isn’t OP, your elitist BS is.

Chukree.1756:

“But, I think we’re dealing with a l2 dodge issue”

You really can’t dodge the amount of AOE that 2 DHs throw on a point. Even if you play a cheese condi evade thief, you’re gonna get CCed in vault and die. The classes that can compete 1v1 with DH are unsurprisingly either tanky sustain (scrapper and druid) or balls to the wall damage with highly effective short term defences (power warrior and shiro rev).

In this meta and in this node based game mode, the AOE spam king is DH, at least for this season. Previously it was condi warr with fire field and CC spam, before that it was necro with condispam and damaging chill (RIP). Scrapper has been relevant forever because it’s tanky with reasonable AOE damage.

The sad thing is, if you nerf bunker type builds to the ground so they aren’t playable, then you just go back to the 100-0 burst builds which isn’t exactly fun (on the receiving end) either.

R O C.6574:

This thread is full of kittens. Guard isn’t OP, your elitist BS is.

you were going to call him a noob until he started talking about whats hes accomplished so far huh. i see no elitism here. all i see is excuses and insults. op made a very well thought argument here. at least try to counter it.

Ubik.8315:

Chukree.1756:

“But, I think we’re dealing with a l2 dodge issue”

You really can’t dodge the amount of AOE that 2 DHs throw on a point. Even if you play a cheese condi evade thief, you’re gonna get CCed in vault and die. The classes that can compete 1v1 with DH are unsurprisingly either tanky sustain (scrapper and druid) or balls to the wall damage with highly effective short term defences (power warrior and shiro rev).

In this meta and in this node based game mode, the AOE spam king is DH, at least for this season. Previously it was condi warr with fire field and CC spam, before that it was necro with condispam and damaging chill (RIP). Scrapper has been relevant forever because it’s tanky with reasonable AOE damage.

The sad thing is, if you nerf bunker type builds to the ground so they aren’t playable, then you just go back to the 100-0 burst builds which isn’t exactly fun (on the receiving end) either.

I was being ironic (" "), but I agree

sophiewhite.3149:

R O C.6574:

This thread is full of kittens. Guard isn’t OP, your elitist BS is.

you were going to call him a noob until he started talking about whats hes accomplished so far huh. i see no elitism here. all i see is excuses and insults. op made a very well thought argument here. at least try to counter it.

Thanks. But it doesn’t matter what I say. If I try to make an argument, I get called out for not playing enough, then when I say I played enough, I get trashed for being elitist.

TGIF.

Legiion.7385:

Cynz.9437:

Legiion.7385:

sophiewhite.3149:

Legiion.7385:

And another one how cant dodge
Srsly have u ever playing in high Tiers ?
Oh i forget u take and break and first thing u do is asking for a nerf.
BtW DH DONT get any buffs from the last Patch

yeah cause you can totally have a dh without it being a gaurdian right? also to all the jerks just being rude to the op obviously hes new. maybe give him some tips instead of just insulting and laughing.UBIK you did awesome.

How can a player that came back after a break and say that the cpmmunity want a DH nerf ?^^
And most people are screaming about the DH mechanics that’s the reason why i said DH wasnt buffed.
And he didnt played in high Tier…but asking for a nerf

I play in high tiers and guard builds (DH IS part of the problem) are too rewarding for too little effort, period. Also, “high tiers” are flooded with (a lot of bad) guards, so no it is not just low divisions issue.

I didnt mean you…..the OP didnt played in high tiers but he screams for a nerf.

I am referring to HoT as a whole. There are traps to avoid, unblockable traps. The arrows, the shield of judgement. Some other things. And dodging their ability is not the problem. But thx for your input. And no I never played high tier pvp.

This is the reason why a mmo never will have a good balancing.
But hey the OP know what the community want.

And i played in high tiers and i “scream” for nerfs. What is your point?

Cynz.9437:

Legiion.7385:

Cynz.9437:

Legiion.7385:

sophiewhite.3149:

Legiion.7385:

And another one how cant dodge
Srsly have u ever playing in high Tiers ?
Oh i forget u take and break and first thing u do is asking for a nerf.
BtW DH DONT get any buffs from the last Patch

yeah cause you can totally have a dh without it being a gaurdian right? also to all the jerks just being rude to the op obviously hes new. maybe give him some tips instead of just insulting and laughing.UBIK you did awesome.

How can a player that came back after a break and say that the cpmmunity want a DH nerf ?^^
And most people are screaming about the DH mechanics that’s the reason why i said DH wasnt buffed.
And he didnt played in high Tier…but asking for a nerf

I play in high tiers and guard builds (DH IS part of the problem) are too rewarding for too little effort, period. Also, “high tiers” are flooded with (a lot of bad) guards, so no it is not just low divisions issue.

I didnt mean you…..the OP didnt played in high tiers but he screams for a nerf.

I am referring to HoT as a whole. There are traps to avoid, unblockable traps. The arrows, the shield of judgement. Some other things. And dodging their ability is not the problem. But thx for your input. And no I never played high tier pvp.

This is the reason why a mmo never will have a good balancing.
But hey the OP know what the community want.

And i played in high tiers and i “scream” for nerfs. What is your point?

Yes, Cynz. Being high/low tier doesn’t have any influence. It exactly would with the old thief, whereas it was high risk, high rewarding. Maybe not Sword/dagger back in the days, But you get my point.

This is the Turret engi v2.0 in disguise as a guardian. And it’s no risk, high reward, no skill, no matter what tier you play, if you can even talk about that in gw2.

I have realized over time that rather than calling nerfs on one class address what needs to be nerfed for all classes. It is less biased and more accepted. For example:

Elementalists: Diamond skin is pretty powerful and could be shaved.

Thief: They shouldn’t be able to dodge more than 3 times in a row.

Mesmer: Nerf healing on shatter the defender nerf was perfect.

Revenant: Their weapon swap synced with legend swap into Staff skill 5 after being buffed in assassin stance. It one shots people it could be toned down,

DH: All their skills need to have longer cast times so players can react Test of faith should only proc once per use and spear of justice should be blockable as there is no counter for the pull after it hits.

Druid: Shave the healing big time. More aoe less self healing.
Scrapper: They also need less healing more counter-play for there res would be nice too.

Reaper: They have too much aoe condition damage.

Warrior: They do too much condition damage upon interrupting players. They also have too much sustain for their given damage shaving to condition immunity and damage immunity would be nice.

These are issues that need to be fixed. There are things the classes need to balance themselves like necromancer needing more sustain or thief needing more hp. But these are a few pressing issues of many. It isn’t DH alone that is messed up. The whole game favors a button smashing mentality right now.

Zelulose.8695:

I have realized over time that rather than calling nerfs on one class address what needs to be nerfed for all classes. It is less biased and more accepted. For example:

Elementalists: Diamond skin is pretty powerful and could be shaved.

Thief: They shouldn’t be able to dodge more than 3 times in a row.

Mesmer: Nerf healing on shatter the defender nerf was perfect.

Revenant: Their weapon swap synced with legend swap into Staff skill 5 after being buffed in assassin stance. It one shots people it could be toned down,

DH: All their skills need to have longer cast times so players can react Test of faith should only proc once per use and spear of justice should be blockable as there is no counter for the pull after it hits.

Druid: Shave the healing big time. More aoe less self healing.
Scrapper: They also need less healing more counter-play for there res would be nice too.

Reaper: They have too much aoe condition damage.

Warrior: They do too much condition damage upon interrupting players. They also have too much sustain for their given damage shaving to condition immunity and damage immunity would be nice.

These are issues that need to be fixed. There are things the classes need to balance themselves like necromancer needing more sustain or thief needing more hp. But these are a few pressing issues of many. It isn’t DH alone that is messed up. The whole game favors a button smashing mentality right now.

Less biased and more accepted?

You suggest that thief should not be able to dodge more than 3 times in a row…like what kind of nerf is that? Of all things that should be nerfed on thief like Pulmonary impact- Unhindered Combat..you suggest that stopping thieves from dodging more than 3 times in row would be a nerf…meanwhile you ask to “lower” sustain on the rest and..lol…ask to nerf ele….like are you struggling to kill an ele using any other profession? Are you serious?…Pls don’t tell me that you die to an ele…-_-…that’s literally impossible even for somebody who installed the game…couple of hours ago

Zelulose.8695:

I have realized over time that rather than calling nerfs on one class address what needs to be nerfed for all classes. It is less biased and more accepted. For example:

Elementalists: Diamond skin is pretty powerful and could be shaved.

Thief: They shouldn’t be able to dodge more than 3 times in a row.

Mesmer: Nerf healing on shatter the defender nerf was perfect.

Revenant: Their weapon swap synced with legend swap into Staff skill 5 after being buffed in assassin stance. It one shots people it could be toned down,

DH: All their skills need to have longer cast times so players can react Test of faith should only proc once per use and spear of justice should be blockable as there is no counter for the pull after it hits.

Druid: Shave the healing big time. More aoe less self healing.
Scrapper: They also need less healing more counter-play for there res would be nice too.

Reaper: They have too much aoe condition damage.

Warrior: They do too much condition damage upon interrupting players. They also have too much sustain for their given damage shaving to condition immunity and damage immunity would be nice.

These are issues that need to be fixed. There are things the classes need to balance themselves like necromancer needing more sustain or thief needing more hp. But these are a few pressing issues of many. It isn’t DH alone that is messed up. The whole game favors a button smashing mentality right now.

And that mentality started a long time ago. I don’t agree with the warrior, It can deal a lot of condi, but every class is filled with condi cleanse, besides the reve and the ranger. Therefore it needs the warrior as a counter. It’s a lineback class. It doesn’t deal superior amount of dmg in one sec, and its low mobility allows people to kite away from it and reposition themselves. Warriors’ heal signet is only useful in low dmg fights, where the dmg dealt allows the heal signet to regain itself. If it gets high cleaved, which is what button smashing does, then it needs a “reset” heal, like the other classes.

I don’t understand the problem with the warrior, but maybe because I play it myself and seem to lack the acknowledgement of other peoples thoughts.

I see the warrior at a good position. I dont see it as bad or good.

Warriors dont have mobility, stealth, portals, pulls, high aoe cleave, etc. It has it’s sustain, which will eventually drop if you don’t allow him to take a walk off point and reset himself. It is how it is supposed to be.

Now we ended up discussing warriors.

But I don’t see eles in a bad spot, I might agree with some of the dmg on reve, but I like that it’s like the thief, has a high risk high reward.

The mesmer class just always been weird. I remember once only good people could play the class. Now talented players are forced to play some spam kite bs.

The thing about the druid, is that it’s like the warrior, if it gets focused it will drop. It’s a playstyle I like, which reminds me of gw1, where the monks needed to drop, or atleast get low onskills in order to end team fights.

Reaper have the same issues like they always had, and Anet seem to just give them more dmg, instead of actually trying to fix the low mobility. I imagine some sick movement skills on necro. cite me for this one: A skill called Telepathic Bloodbond that allows to split hp in half. so if x lost 50% hp, y will get 50% hp, and they will teleport to each direction. Nerfing the necros dmg a bit, so it won be able to tackle anyone at the point. But making it as a crazy disengage skill. The downside will be, that if the necro splits his last 5% hp, he kills both his mate and himself by getting a new one on the spot.

This is an idea that I find as a solution, and a new gambreaking advantage.

Where were we?

Zelulose.8695:

I have realized over time that rather than calling nerfs on one class address what needs to be nerfed for all classes. It is less biased and more accepted. For example:

Elementalists: Diamond skin is pretty powerful and could be shaved.

Thief: They shouldn’t be able to dodge more than 3 times in a row.

Mesmer: Nerf healing on shatter the defender nerf was perfect.

Revenant: Their weapon swap synced with legend swap into Staff skill 5 after being buffed in assassin stance. It one shots people it could be toned down,

DH: All their skills need to have longer cast times so players can react Test of faith should only proc once per use and spear of justice should be blockable as there is no counter for the pull after it hits.

Druid: Shave the healing big time. More aoe less self healing.
Scrapper: They also need less healing more counter-play for there res would be nice too.

Reaper: They have too much aoe condition damage.

Warrior: They do too much condition damage upon interrupting players. They also have too much sustain for their given damage shaving to condition immunity and damage immunity would be nice.

These are issues that need to be fixed. There are things the classes need to balance themselves like necromancer needing more sustain or thief needing more hp. But these are a few pressing issues of many. It isn’t DH alone that is messed up. The whole game favors a button smashing mentality right now.

kitten my life if ANet ever listen to this guy. that call for nerf ele very funny LOL

bump
/15 characters

Chukree.1756:

@Kuya, I didn’t know they were different. The dmg dealing one.

Ah, the newbie trap. It’s mostly useless, unless you have some really good teammates (you need hard cc from other sources to make it work properly, so basically you need a second player dedicated just to keeping opponents in your traps).

Chukree.1756:

Are people really traiting as they want, and still making it viable?

No, there’s simply several different builds. Each build has different strengths and weaknesses. And yes, each build has some glaring weaknesses.

Though they might seem OP if you can’t distinguish between them, because you attribute all their strong points to a single build.

Chukree.1756:

Are you trying to start a new debate? Do you think it’s a skill-based class? Does it matter what I play?

It always matters what you play.

By the way, i don’t play guardian. It’s just i have learned that it’s not the class i fear to be on the opposing side. And if i know my opponent is good, i’d rather have him play guardian than some other classes that can be truly dangerous with high skill.

Ubik.8315:

Chukree.1756:

And I can’t figure out a class that would be able to tank it either, trying to keep the point.

I’ve only scrapper or another DH be able to hold point for a prolonged period (longer than 3-5 mins) vs a DH. A scrapper should be able to beat a DH, but it’ll be a long fight.

Druid will lose point due to stealth from CA. They won’t even come close to dying, but that doesn’t really matter since they can’t hold the point.

Warrior will either have to kill relatively quick or concede the point as well, the longer the fight lasts the better it is for the DH.

A power rev should be able to kill the DH provided they can avoid the initial burst.

Thief generally gets creamed.

Ele might survive for a while, especially vs a mender spec but will likely get killed the moment they get hit with a CC by a marasymbolic build.

Necro is a free kill if they’re solo for all DH specs.

I’m not sure how mesmer fares, I haven’t seen enough this season. Likely loses point but might be able to 100-0 the DH with a continuum split cc shatter combo or a condi bomb at 50% HP with their cleanses down.

If it’s not the bunker dh, then ranger and mesmers might end up letting the point decap for a while (unless it’s foefire mid), but they will end up killing that DH and recapping fast, barring some real difference in skill. Assuming some minimum competence, of course (trap DH is a noob killer, even when played by another noob). Bunker dh will not die that easily, but won’t be able to deal any damage to them as well, so it will go into a contest of pushing and pulling around.

Also, remember that dh that stays constantly on point, with competent opponents will end up having to constantly fend off the classes that can win with it, leaving the others to deal with remaining opponents. And dh on the move loses a lot of its capabilities (no precast traps, for example) and can die way more easily, even to opponents it would definitely win with on point.

Chukree.1756:

Zelulose.8695:

I have realized over time that rather than calling nerfs on one class address what needs to be nerfed for all classes. It is less biased and more accepted. For example:

Elementalists: Diamond skin is pretty powerful and could be shaved.

Thief: They shouldn’t be able to dodge more than 3 times in a row.

Mesmer: Nerf healing on shatter the defender nerf was perfect.

Revenant: Their weapon swap synced with legend swap into Staff skill 5 after being buffed in assassin stance. It one shots people it could be toned down,

DH: All their skills need to have longer cast times so players can react Test of faith should only proc once per use and spear of justice should be blockable as there is no counter for the pull after it hits.

Druid: Shave the healing big time. More aoe less self healing.
Scrapper: They also need less healing more counter-play for there res would be nice too.

Reaper: They have too much aoe condition damage.

Warrior: They do too much condition damage upon interrupting players. They also have too much sustain for their given damage shaving to condition immunity and damage immunity would be nice.

These are issues that need to be fixed. There are things the classes need to balance themselves like necromancer needing more sustain or thief needing more hp. But these are a few pressing issues of many. It isn’t DH alone that is messed up. The whole game favors a button smashing mentality right now.

And that mentality started a long time ago. I don’t agree with the warrior, It can deal a lot of condi, but every class is filled with condi cleanse, besides the reve and the ranger. Therefore it needs the warrior as a counter. It’s a lineback class. It doesn’t deal superior amount of dmg in one sec, and its low mobility allows people to kite away from it and reposition themselves. Warriors’ heal signet is only useful in low dmg fights, where the dmg dealt allows the heal signet to regain itself. If it gets high cleaved, which is what button smashing does, then it needs a “reset” heal, like the other classes.

I don’t understand the problem with the warrior, but maybe because I play it myself and seem to lack the acknowledgement of other peoples thoughts.

I see the warrior at a good position. I dont see it as bad or good.

Warriors dont have mobility, stealth, portals, pulls, high aoe cleave, etc. It has it’s sustain, which will eventually drop if you don’t allow him to take a walk off point and reset himself. It is how it is supposed to be.

Now we ended up discussing warriors.

But I don’t see eles in a bad spot, I might agree with some of the dmg on reve, but I like that it’s like the thief, has a high risk high reward.

The mesmer class just always been weird. I remember once only good people could play the class. Now talented players are forced to play some spam kite bs.

The thing about the druid, is that it’s like the warrior, if it gets focused it will drop. It’s a playstyle I like, which reminds me of gw1, where the monks needed to drop, or atleast get low onskills in order to end team fights.

Reaper have the same issues like they always had, and Anet seem to just give them more dmg, instead of actually trying to fix the low mobility. I imagine some sick movement skills on necro. cite me for this one: A skill called Telepathic Bloodbond that allows to split hp in half. so if x lost 50% hp, y will get 50% hp, and they will teleport to each direction. Nerfing the necros dmg a bit, so it won be able to tackle anyone at the point. But making it as a crazy disengage skill. The downside will be, that if the necro splits his last 5% hp, he kills both his mate and himself by getting a new one on the spot.

This is an idea that I find as a solution, and a new gambreaking advantage.

Where were we?

Warriors don’t have mobility, high aoe cleave and only have just enough sustain….. ha wait..this guy must be Phd..no wonders…

There is clearly problems with guardians, and it seems very similar to 2 seasons ago when everyone were playing nec. Now before you say that i am a noob and that i dont know how to evade and kitten, i have played against pro players before and hit legendary twice. Now i havent played much pvp this season, mainly because i am starting to get bored of it, but when half of the playerbase switch to guard its either because it has some kind of flaw in the design, or because it takes no skill to play and it is easy to climb with.