Guild Wars 2

So.. yeah.. This topic has been brought up a bunch of times on the forums already. The lord on legacy is just way to weak at this point, often enough granting really undeserved wins by letting you come back even if you fuked up everything.

Let me give you an example. Yesterday in the semis of the Go4 Cup my team was behind with 320-400something points, they had a double cap, we still had people respawning and they were already engaging our last point. On every other map this game would have been lost at this point. We were on legacy though. 3 people from my team just suicided on close one after another to keep it for a few more seconds while my thief and me killed their lord in a few seconds. We made it to 500 points. The moment the game ended we had no points and two people were dead. I never had a win that felt so undeserved.

Even if people come to defend, if the attackers are there before they arrive it’s pretty much guaranteed that they will get the kill.

The main reasons why lord is so easy to get is that it is unchanged since release while all the classes do way more damage than they used to do. A lot of that is to blame on the sigil and rune changes that happened a while ago. The heal from lord is incredibly easy to interupt, giving him stability only works if there is no thief or necro which can just interupt through that.

Also the casters and soldiers that are supposed to “protect” the lord are a joke. If I go for lord I usually just pull with binding blade, use whirling wrath and they are already dead at that point. Either you should make them way more tanky or at least not let people rally from them. I don’t know why rallying from npcs is a mechanic in PvP anyways. It makes it almost impossible to kill people going for lord fast because the possibility that they will rally on a caster that randomly died to AoE is pretty high. Also you should probably make the cast of the heal faster since it often enough died before even getting a chance of getting it off.

Yeah agreeed, think they should start with giving the casters more healing skills. What if their main autoattack was Water Blast (ele staff water 1) for instance? Attacking the ganking player with it, the lord would get some heals from the splashback. Or if you gave them Orb of Light and scripted them to use it on cooldown, to heal the lord against ranged enemies too.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
We actually do WAY LESS damage from the beta (2x quickness, critical damage really high, no nerf hammer on everything)

Just like in GW1, guild lord is weak on purpose. They want you to spend people to “defend” the thing. If you only defend it AFTER they reach the home base, then you’re doing it wrong. In GW1, if you let your opponent reach the guild boss so easily, you’re pretty much lost anyway. At least lord is hard to solo thanks to all the adds around, and it has reduced damage against direct damage.

Aomine.5012:

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
We actually do WAY LESS damage from the beta (2x quickness, critical damage really high, no nerf hammer on everything)

Just like in GW1, guild lord is weak on purpose. They want you to spend people to “defend” the thing. If you only defend it AFTER they reach the home base, then you’re doing it wrong. In GW1, if you let your opponent reach the guild boss so easily, you’re pretty much lost anyway. At least lord is hard to solo thanks to all the adds around, and it has reduced damage against direct damage.

This.
In GW1 people could solo the lord… and that was 8v8 so 1 person is a smaller percentage of the team than in a 5v5.

This is conquest tho, not guard the npc.

Once a gate is down, you have no real indication of someone heading to lords until they’re at lords. And as the OP stated, by then its already to late.

You encourage people to not fight each other because its more beneficial to fight an npc. That shouldn’t be what PvP is about.

You cant defend lord since cele meta. Lord dies sooner than you are able to kill them. In old metas it was fine, but not now.

FearedbytheGods.8617:

This is conquest tho, not guard the npc.

Once a gate is down, you have no real indication of someone heading to lords until they’re at lords. And as the OP stated, by then its already to late.

You encourage people to not fight each other because its more beneficial to fight an npc. That shouldn’t be what PvP is about.

People are complaining about conquest being too boring as a mechanic. Yet people are still complaining when the secondary mechanic being too hard to manage lol…

Tbh, if you manage to get 3 cap points, it takes just 100 seconds to get 150 points.
That’s why it’s never worth to rush lord at all before the points hit 350.
If it takes longer than 100 seconds to kill all adds and lord, then this mechanic will be meaningless.

So lord is not suppose to be strong or easily defendable when FIVE enemies already hit your guild home. (Meaning you already fall behind and your team are all wiped out, meaning you pretty much lost already regardless of lord being strong or not. You’d have lost in other maps too if you fall this much behind)

Emapudapus.1307:

You cant defend lord with cele meta. Lord dies sooner than you are able to kill them. In old metas it was fine, but not now.

Stop using meta then.

Alternatively, just rush THEIR lord before they rush yours. If you’re already winning, there should be no issue with you rushing when you hit 350.

Yeah the real question here is why didn’t the other team rush your lord when they hit 350? Did you defend him?

the comments make me cry.

thechamp.3092:

the comments make me cry.

the comments make Guild Lord cry.

lol at the dolyaks and rabbit ranks thinking they know how lord works.

bullets right though it needs a serious buff, freaking insane how soloing lord is EASIER than soloing svanir for me, even though there’s a 125 point difference.

I agree, Lord Rush is just not risky enough. Theres basically no disadvantage to it, as long as you got atleast 1 point capped/neutral. Legacy also encourages zerging, but thats a different issue. I’d still say its the best/2nd best map we have.

I’ve seen people completely wipe on lord, or getting no where near the guy, because the other team did a better job at reading when he was going to get attacked.

It’s mind games at its best. A full team of Cele will do a very poor job at defending compared to a mix variant of Zerkers…. It’s not that the Lord is underpowered.. you have tanks defending him.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

This.
In GW1 people could solo the lord… and that was 8v8 so 1 person is a smaller percentage of the team than in a 5v5.

But with eight players per team you also had a much higher terrain coverage compared to just five. It was way easier to spot if someone was actually heading for your Priest.

Tom Gore.4035:

Yeah the real question here is why didn’t the other team rush your lord when they hit 350? Did you defend him?

The gate was already opened because I destroyed it while we were regrouping. We went for lord with 2 zerkers. We definetly would have had the faster lordkill so they tried to decap the one point we still had which they managed to do the second we got to 500 points.

And please don’t bring GW1 into this. I don’t know much about GW1 GvG but I’m pretty sure there was no stealth, no portals and no rallying on npcs. Also you can’t just let everybody from your team defend lord on legacy since the other team decapping everything while you overcommit to defending lord is still a possibilty.

I hear about defending a lot and reading the opponent. That is all fine and true, its a very interesting aspect of the map, you’d have to decide what to do when you hear “your base is under attack!”.
But, thing is, in a proper lord rush you’d have to kill the number of players attacking the lord – as in, all of them – before they kill the lord. Imagine, if you will, a team fight, in which you’d have to kill the whole enemy team before even one of you gets ganked into downstate – not death, only downstate, because the lord is insta-death – and that one ganked player on your team (the lord!) is a bit kitten and doesn’t really do much aside from autoattacking. And its called lord RUSH for a reason – players rush straight to the lord, they will use their cooldowns to get to him because if there are 5 somewhat competent enemy players on lord, there is almost no way to stop them from killing him. Not everyone in your team might be competent in off-point fighting, because its very different from on-point fighting. Not even talking about port-, stealth- and invuln-skills the other team will use to get to to lord past your defence. So yeah, its really hard to stop a somewhat competent enemy team from killing lord once they hit 350, especially when playing with pugs. Its easier for pugs to understand “hey, when we hit 350, we’re ALL going for the lord, we meet near far point!” than it is to organise something along the line of “Hey, when the other team hits 350, they might go for our lord, so we should somehow organise ourselves in ways that lets us see all points while being able to retreat back to base fast enough to at least engage them before they are right next to the lord!”

I’m not saying that I don’t enjoy Foefire – I have some fond memories of killing the enemy lord together with a really awesome thief, winning a game that by all other means was a total loss. But, it doesn’t really hurt to think and talk about these mechanics, now that they have been in place for a long time and people tend to find a sort of formulaic approach to these things that make them easier.

Give the lord endure pain at 75%/25% HP

He is a Warrior right? Give em Zerker Stance too

Tbh he feels too strong on the other team but too weak on my team lol. I think its fine though. If you let that many players sneak to youe base your team isnt coordinated enough and didnt deserve to win. Also can guardian healing elite heal it to full still? Cuz that was hilarious

I can solo the lord and adds in under 25 secs on cele war.. bit of a joke rly..

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Aomine.5012:

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
We actually do WAY LESS damage from the beta (2x quickness, critical damage really high, no nerf hammer on everything)

Just like in GW1, guild lord is weak on purpose. They want you to spend people to “defend” the thing. If you only defend it AFTER they reach the home base, then you’re doing it wrong. In GW1, if you let your opponent reach the guild boss so easily, you’re pretty much lost anyway. At least lord is hard to solo thanks to all the adds around, and it has reduced damage against direct damage.

This.
In GW1 people could solo the lord… and that was 8v8 so 1 person is a smaller percentage of the team than in a 5v5.

A ranger degening the lord to death with flatbow after killing the body guard over a period of 5mins with the runner coming back to interfere (remember in GW1 you had someone revisiting the base constantly) =/= the 10sec kill it takes for bullet and thief.

The Lord in GW2 is a nostalgic addition and cannot be compared to the Lord from GW1.

However when considering the Lord in GW2 we must be careful not to make it too hard to kill – people only go for it as a ‘last resort’ or ’we’re stomping you and want the match finished’ atm. Making it roo much harder will just remove him from the game.

We’ll need to wait for Stronghold to see what a truly focused attempt at Guild Lord game type will give us – he’s just there for fun atm (by fun i mean nostalgia and adding an OMG win condi for losing teams to try to balance against the large cap point).

I don’t have a problem with how easy the lord is to kill with no defenders, but I do have a problem with how easy he is to kill with defenders. Heals and boons you can apply to him are small, and the usual res skills that can save players can’t be used on him due to having no downed state. A team that responds quickly and in sufficient numbers to an enemy lord rush should be able to stop it, and yet often this isn’t simply isn’t the case— there’s just too much damage getting thrown around that you have no chance to mitigate. Sometimes, boons/heals you want to provide the lord will not even apply due to prioritization issues. I suggest a buff that provides additional stats and passive regeneration to the lord for each allied player within a ~1500 radius or so.

Defiance buff would be helpful for lord. His heal has such a long cast time and is very simple to interrupt.

Aomine.5012:

People are complaining about conquest being too boring as a mechanic. Yet people are still complaining when the secondary mechanic being too hard to manage lol…

Now you don’t understand.

People are complaining because conquest is the only mode, rather than cheesy secondary mechanics.

But Skyhammer is still in unranked if that’s what you want to play.

I could understand giving it some extra health, it dies pretty fast.

Keksmuffin.1450:

and no rallying on npcs.

Removing that would make rushing lord less effective if defenders show up to help.

To OP.

If you and a thief solo lord a split second before the “better team” won; you yourself didn’t expect to win, then you got lucky. The team didn’t bother to take the necessary precautions; counting enemy players and thinking “Hey, anyone keeping an eye on our gate?”. They didn’t bother rushing lord themselves to ensure a victory either. I’ve never felt more deserving of a win when I solo lord in 30s, winning by just a few points. I expect it to happen.

FearedbytheGods.8617:

But Skyhammer is still in unranked if that’s what you want to play.

That’s why it should be in Ranked instead.

Would it help to make the lord invulnerable until all guards are dead?
Or adding a downstate to the lord, so that he has to be stomped, or can be rezzed?

I actually think down state lord would make for some cool plays. You can solo stomp it just as effectively, but people could warbanner him or CC you off him, or cleave his body, etc. Maybe give him the Warrior down state 2 as well so he can interrupt, necessitating a more proper stomp.

Otherwise I think the lord is fine. Being able to spike him down with coordination is pretty important to keeping the mechanic relevant.

Tranassa.4968:

Would it help to make the lord invulnerable until all guards are dead?
Or adding a downstate to the lord, so that he has to be stomped, or can be rezzed?

me like this. Downstate for lord

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Foefire-Lord/first#post4512278
btw. it could be something like spirit-ranger buffs oder warrior-banners in the lord-room, so the Defender and denfending Team get some buffs. Whatever, just do something pls

I 100% agree the guild lord needs a buff.

If anything they should make the NPCs downstateable, not just the lord.
To be honest somebuilds just tickle him, and I’ve seen 2 people keep the lord healthy against 3 people before.

Most people don’t specialize in killing the lord and make it there duty to kill lord and adds in 25 seconds or less. Only few people do that crap.

Lord is fine, if anything, make the NPC’s downstateable.
That’s what they did in PvE with those toxic fighters, they more difficult than this lord and his army.

How about remove the trash adds and buff the lord?

Tao.5096:

FearedbytheGods.8617:

But Skyhammer is still in unranked if that’s what you want to play.

That’s why it should be in Ranked instead.

QFT +1000

xDudisx.5914:

How about remove the trash adds and buff the lord?

How’s this for an NPC revamp:
2 archers at each gate that attack people who are attacking the gate.
2 warriors next to the lord that use hammer for ccs.
1 bodyguard next to the lord, like in GW1 GvG, which uses boons and heals on the lord.

All NPCs have a down state and can res other NPCs.

I don’t want to see downstate at all.

And im actually starting to think that lord is fine, maybe just buff the gates so that you have more time to get there and defend.

Sube Dai.8496:

I don’t want to see downstate at all.

And im actually starting to think that lord is fine, maybe just buff the gates so that you have more time to get there and defend.

That wouldn’t really do anything. People usually prepare the lord rush earlier in the game by breaking down the gate so that there’s no “Your base is under attack” warning.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Sube Dai.8496:

I don’t want to see downstate at all.

And im actually starting to think that lord is fine, maybe just buff the gates so that you have more time to get there and defend.

That wouldn’t really do anything. People usually prepare the lord rush earlier in the game by breaking down the gate so that there’s no “Your base is under attack” warning.

How about gates auto-repair after a few minutes then? Or a warning “The enemy is in your base” instead of the gate/lord is under atack?

xDudisx.5914:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Sube Dai.8496:

I don’t want to see downstate at all.

And im actually starting to think that lord is fine, maybe just buff the gates so that you have more time to get there and defend.

That wouldn’t really do anything. People usually prepare the lord rush earlier in the game by breaking down the gate so that there’s no “Your base is under attack” warning.

How about gates auto-repair after a few minutes then? Or a warning “The enemy is in your base” instead of the gate/lord is under atack?

Or make a repair kit spawn somewhere. Maybe next to the lord so you don’t have to risk a huge amount of time to repair it.

Until lord gets a buff I’ll keep on stealthing him before he gets pulled

I agree same. Sometime i stand i watch lord and see him standing lonely and sad; wait for die. My server kill enemy lord less than 30 seconds and i find not challenge for Lord. Why make Lord weak than pve big boss? Lord should be like pve big boss and fight for life and use very powerful skill for kill and defend.

Suggestion; make lord immune to all damage every 10 second
Suggestion 2; if not kill lord in 20 second timer; make lord use super skill to instant kill all enemy player in 2500-4500 range radius include stealth class player.

Just suggestion

I generally think lord is in a good place but I think it would be a good change to stop invaders from being able to rally off the guards. This makes defending much harder than it should be because of all the rally bait keeping the invaders up and healthy.

They really should be discussing other topics than if guild lord needs a buff or not.

This should be somewhere at the bottom of the list to evaluate.

By this logic warriors base HP should be buffed too, as in its also their defensive mechanics (for having less other defensive mechanics), so.

Simon.3794:

By this logic warriors base HP should be buffed too, as in its also their defensive mechanics (for having less other defensive mechanics), so.

HP buffed?
Idk, those tanky warriors are pretty mean. I mean the other builds I would agree but when I face a tanky warrior… They have more than enough hp.. Maybe not hp but they got something going on, 0 0 0 0 type thing can never do anything to them type thing.

Whenever I see 2 warriors on a team, that just kittenes me off because most of time, when they on the other team they kittening good, they the tanky type. Makes me switch to power ranger. I swear power ranger owns all those tanky type people. Thank god I have that option. Tanky ele, Tanky engy, Tanky warrior… Say hello to my power ranger.

^healing signet is what makes warriors tanky, not health. Tank warrior was pretty poor before HS.

Brigg.6189:

^healing signet is what makes warriors tanky, not health. Tank warrior was pretty poor before HS.

You probably right.

I really don’t focus on what’s going on. I focus on how to beat them. If I’m not playing my power ranger, those guys are just too tanky.

Even if I have a ranger on my team, I expect them to be terrible ranger, some weird build and not meta. Most likely they are and they cant handle those tanky warriors so recently I’ve been switching back and forth between medi guard and power ranger. That’s all you need bro’s.
Medi guard take care of those thieves necros mesmers.
Power ranger to take out those tanky eles engy, and warriors.

Why medi guard cant handle eles engy warriors? too much dang sustain for those guys.
Why power ranger cant handle thieves necros mesmers? thieves and mesmers invis too kitten much and have dazes, stuff that interrupts you, same with necro, too much stuff interrupting you. But, thing is medi guard has too many stunbreakers that they practically own those stunning dazing reliant type classes, except the in your face stunlock warrior tanky kitten motherkittena.

Sure engy can interrupt power ranger, but engy relies on you being in there face to interrupt you, hence why a power ranger owns those kitteners. Power rangers don’t chase engies, engies chase power rangers. When engy chases they lose, when people chase engies, engies win.

Lemme tell you, I like my medi guard but I’ve been go go power ranger due to all these tanky people and newbs on my team using dumb builds that they could counter those tanky guys but they suck too much.