Guild Wars 2

Why do people keep making threads about “esports”? The devs are certainly not obsessed with esports, nor should they be. They’re just focused on making the game better, as they say. That’s all they can do anyway. It seems the forums just want a special word to all get angry about together.

Let’s make threads about specific issues in the game that could be better. Using the word “esports” over and over again doesn’t seem useful to me.

Shukran.4851:

you can’t create a game for e-sport.
you must earn the rights to be.

and gw2 is far from earning it

NevirSayDie.6235:

Why do people keep making threads about “esports”? The devs are certainly not obsessed with esports, nor should they be. They’re just focused on making the game better, as they say. That’s all they can do anyway. It seems the forums just want a special word to all get angry about together.

Let’s make threads about specific issues in the game that could be better. Using the word “esports” over and over again doesn’t seem useful to me.

Boom. Thank you. I wish they/we’d all do away with this arbitrary goal and focus on what they should be doing: expanding PVP modes and character development options, like the multitude that existed in GW1. This entire “E-sport” thing has been a massive waste of time, a massive disappointment, and resulted in a shoddy broken PVP community with a low skill floor, little competition, and constant conquest mode rotation. -_-

Enokitake.1742:

Boom. Thank you. I wish they/we’d all do away with this arbitrary goal and focus on what they should be doing: expanding PVP modes and character development options, like the multitude that existed in GW1. This entire “E-sport” thing has been a massive waste of time, a massive disappointment, and resulted in a shoddy broken PVP community with a low skill floor, little competition, and constant conquest mode rotation. -_-

Exactly. The devs have been simply focusing on improving the game for a full year now. It’s the forums that insist on staying in April 2012.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Exactly. The devs have been simply focusing on improving the game for a full year now. It’s the forums that insist on staying in April 2012.

kitten right man. Look at all the awesome features they made !

Adris.1859:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Exactly. The devs have been simply focusing on improving the game for a full year now. It’s the forums that insist on staying in April 2012.

kitten right man. Look at all the awesome features they made !

The game launched too early for PvP, so a lot of basic features had to be added after launch. Custom arenas, matchmaking, leaderboards, solo/team queues, spectating—none of those existed at launch.

The devs have spent the last year adding stuff like that. Most of those features still have a lot of room to improve, but my point was that the devs aren’t ignoring those features while pushing for “esports.” They’ve been working on the actual issues in the game for the last year, while we’ve been repeating the word “esports” like a chant in a picket line, as if saying it will make the devs feel bad, which will somehow make the game better.

Justin ODell.9517:

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

I really feel particle effects being over the top are holding back viewers.

Many of us have the same opinion, though I’m not sure which team has that as a work item, and at what priority.

I think something the dev team might want to look into is maybe pulling the camera back a little further. I brought this up at the time the game was released, but I think at this point, instead of coding into the reduction of particle effects, it might make more sense to back up the camera and see if players can see better through the effects.

I noticed that if I ran behind the crates at the dock in the Capricorn map, the camera automatically zooms to the point where I can’t see anything other than myself. That problem on top of the particles going on the point, makes it very frustrating to play.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

I wanted to step in here and hopefully clear some things up. Our primary goal is to improve the foundation that PvP is built-on by improving our existing features and expanding with new ones. More specifically, our goal is to make PvP fun and engaging. We agree that PvP isn’t where we want it to be – and that’s what motivates us to do better. Our hope is that with the rewards updates, matchmaking improvements, and various other updates on the horizon we can begin to cultivate a more competitive, engaging, and fun version of Structured PvP. Once we have everything in place, we can nudge things in the right direction, but it will ultimately be up to the community to take the competitive scene one step further.

Hugh “Nightmare” Norfolk
PvP Designer

I have bolded some sentences that I think are very important.
If you have read my previous post in the thread, you will probably know why, if not let me explain.
Players are making a lot of noise in regards to unbalance, bad matchmaking etc etc. However, these complaints are not the reason the game has not become competitive.
A lot of people (in general) complain even though they do not really know what they want, or what is actually wrong. I’m not saying that balance is not important, because it sure is, but in every single competitive game there will be imbalances. Some greater than others, but they should all be fixable. Like a Hero in Dota that unfortunately came out too strong. You’ve tried buffing and nerfing classes, but people still complain. This is a huge sign to me that the balance is actually not the problem. Keep in mind that when I say balance, I’m referring to tweaking numbers, adjusting CDs and fixing bugs etc.
Take a look at CS:GO atm. P90, Glock and Autosniper people consider unbalanced, however the scene continues to grow. It grows because the core/fundament of the game is competitive.
The skill-cap is incredibly high, and the difference between a bad and a good player could not get larger. With that said, the game is still very easy for a new player to understand and progress at.
Game mechanics are simple, and more often than not you know why you’re dead, and know what to improve.
This is not the case with GW2 atm. So before you start implementing rewards, better matchmaking and other features, call a meeting and discuss how you can truly push GW2 to be competitive.
All these features you mention are only QoL to some extend. A better balanced matchmaking is NOT what will make GW2 an e-sport, I can tell you that with a 100% certainty.

There are a lot of great threads that have now been buried, which is a shame. But I believe you guys can figure out the problems by yourselves, if you are just willing to see them. Don’t get tunnel-vision, it’s still not too late to make this a great game, but it will require a little bit of courage.

Someone post the Esports gif already.

I may as well chime in with my top 3 reason why this is not yet an E-Sport:

1.) SPAM : The spammy nature of the game, no mana/energy system (other than thief) means that players have to think INCREDIBLY little about their skill usage, and mainly just use them on recharge, leading to a chaotic mess of particle effects and impossible to follow skill usage.

2.) Game-modes : Currently the game does not have, what I would call, a “singular-objective gamemode”. What this means is that the only goal the entire team is working towards is simply score, “have higher points than the other guys”.

such game modes as GvG (GW1), and Towers / Nexus (LoL) are great example of team-based singular objectives. The only way to win, is to make the other team quit, or kill the nexus/lord.

The start of the game can be as 1v1, 2v2, #v# as it wants to be (solo lanes in LoL, flag runners and gankers in GvG) but in the end the team needs to work towards the singular objective, and cap points does not fit that role at all, in fact, in the end it promotes split-play, and not team-play…..which is bad.

3.) Particle Effects : Mentioned already, the particle effects are 2 things: a.) massive and flashy (due to spamming of skills it is just effects everywhere) and b.) not very indicative of the skill being used most of the time, if the skills are going to have animations, they need to be clear, and show anyone seeing them, WHAT skill it is, and what it is doing.

This game could Be esports if they stopped dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator…

We need more buffs for Phantasm Mesmers minionmancers turretneers and spirit weapon guardians.

Darnis.4056:

This game could Be esports if they stopped dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator…

We need more buffs for Phantasm Mesmers minionmancers turretneers and spirit weapon guardians.

You don’t want it dumbed down…but you want every passive AI based build to be buffed? is that sarcasm, or or simply contradicting…

NevirSayDie.6235:

The forums are obsessed with esports. The devs never have been—they usually say things like “I think we can get there” or “we’re going to keep making the game as good as we can.” In other words, they know you don’t just “make” an esport. You make a game as good as you can, and see what happens with it.

Somehow, the forums have twisted those words into some kind of “promise.” It’s a goal, or a dream. Not a promise.

As far as I know guild wars 2 was marketed as esports before the game was even released. They hyped everyone up especially the gw1 pvp crowd. Now that the Devs realized it is easier to say we are esports they have quieted down

NevirSayDie.6235:

The game launched too early for PvP, so a lot of basic features had to be added after launch. Custom arenas, matchmaking, leaderboards, solo/team queues, spectating—none of those existed at launch.

The devs have spent the last year adding stuff like that. Most of those features still have a lot of room to improve, but my point was that the devs aren’t ignoring those features while pushing for “esports.” They’ve been working on the actual issues in the game for the last year, while we’ve been repeating the word “esports” like a chant in a picket line, as if saying it will make the devs feel bad, which will somehow make the game better.

Funny that you say that, when all of those features (barring SoloQ) are incredibly e-sports centric. Which average player cares about leaderboards?
Or spectates (especially if there was no e-sports scene to begin with)?
They all were developed at the expense of features that would actually lure in players, like new/improved game modes or (PVE-exchangeable) rewards.

Zietlogik.6208:

Darnis.4056:

This game could Be esports if they stopped dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator…

We need more buffs for Phantasm Mesmers minionmancers turretneers and spirit weapon guardians.

You don’t want it dumbed down…but you want every passive AI based build to be buffed? is that sarcasm, or or simply contradicting…

sarcasm

Zietlogik.6208:

Darnis.4056:

This game could Be esports if they stopped dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator…

We need more buffs for Phantasm Mesmers minionmancers turretneers and spirit weapon guardians.

You don’t want it dumbed down…but you want every passive AI based build to be buffed? is that sarcasm, or or simply contradicting…

Yes

RoRo.8270:

NevirSayDie.6235:

The forums are obsessed with esports. The devs never have been—they usually say things like “I think we can get there” or “we’re going to keep making the game as good as we can.” In other words, they know you don’t just “make” an esport. You make a game as good as you can, and see what happens with it.

Somehow, the forums have twisted those words into some kind of “promise.” It’s a goal, or a dream. Not a promise.

As far as I know guild wars 2 was marketed as esports before the game was even released. They hyped everyone up especially the gw1 pvp crowd. Now that the Devs realized it is easier to say we are esports they have quieted down

I think you are confused they have always said their goal was to be an e-sport not that it will be an esport, because one of the factors in other for a game to be an esport is the gaming community taking a liking to it. Goals are things that you may or maybe not achieve, but you strive for. Notice how if you ever paid attention to what they said, they never actually gave a time when gw2 will be an esport, they only said it is their goal.

I think it is safe to say that the most popular games in the esport scene are MOBA games. One should question why those games are so popular and GW2 not. But even WoW’s arena generally has more viewers on twitch.tv than GW2.

From my own experience I can say that I really enjoy watching LoL, Dota2, HoN or even BF4 streams, but not GW2.

It’s hard to pin down the reasons. But for me the most important are too many particles, the lack of synergy between players (CC, counter-CC, support, combos), lack of tactical depth, too much random stuff, too many pets, hard to follow (due to high damage and random procs).

Just look at HoN top plays of the week or Dota2 Top Play Weekly. It’s though moments where someone is almost dead but somehow manages to turn the tide.

I feel in GW2 it often comes down to players facing each other … bam … someone is dead. I don’t know. Maybe GW2 lacks too much counter-play. Maybe it’s focused too much on DPS.

I think that you don’t become aware of how hard it must be to achieve a balance game, and tend to think the E-Sport .

Watch League of legends , he had not less a year to see the beginning of the ranked game before there were only normal games with a hidden elo system.

Of course I can’t compare it to LoL about " eSports " because one is a MOBA and other MMORPG .

For indeed, it is much harder to balance a mmorpg, a MOBA .

Why ?

Just because one has a very specific metagame , or each player a specific role , and the heroes available to fulfill a particular role and can be countered by a particular hero.

On GW2 , it is much harder , because the current meta of the game boils down to a maximum of 3 points win to set up his income , to make the kill for five , this is the only way to earn points. Classes and heroes are identical, only exchange skills or weapons. ( However, the " good players " play all the same build more or less) .

So why GW2 put it time to become "E -Sport " ?

Simply by a lack of active players in PvP, in fact I really think that there is not enough players in tournament simultaneously in a day which affects the growth and the return of the players point of view "balance improvement, "and more long queues, a ranking system, lousy does not help matters …

More compared to other games, Guild Wars 2 is facing another problem. Indeed there is also a PvE & WvW part. So GW2 can not do anything either for direct content “really” PvP without affecting PvE Gameplay & WvW, which probably displease a large majority of players.

That was my opinion on why and how Guild Wars 2 to hard to be really competitive this day.

Although personnaly, I take great pleasure in playing this game, whether that SPVP WvW / PvE.

Keep up the good work all the net arena team, and do not hesitate, everyone!, Watching my youtube page to watch video of SPVP and other surprises

http://www.youtube.com/GW2Bane

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

I wanted to step in here and hopefully clear some things up. Our primary goal is to improve the foundation that PvP is built-on by improving our existing features and expanding with new ones. More specifically, our goal is to make PvP fun and engaging. We agree that PvP isn’t where we want it to be – and that’s what motivates us to do better. Our hope is that with the rewards updates, matchmaking improvements, and various other updates on the horizon we can begin to cultivate a more competitive, engaging, and fun version of Structured PvP. Once we have everything in place, we can nudge things in the right direction, but it will ultimately be up to the community to take the competitive scene one step further.

Hugh “Nightmare” Norfolk
PvP Designer

And the canned response, well so much for this thread leading anywhere.

i think the entire s pvp shoud be delited its borring so borring and for love of god GIVE US dueling evrywhere on any location pve/pvp

RoRo.8270:

As far as I know guild wars 2 was marketed as esports before the game was even released. They hyped everyone up especially the gw1 pvp crowd. Now that the Devs realized it is easier to say we are esports they have quieted down

And where did you hear that? …ah, right, on the forums. It was not “marketed” as an esport, although PvP was certainly part of the advertising. Especially the fact that PvP had absolutely no gear or level advantages. The reality is that before launch, a few of the devs made statements like “we’re really excited about PvP and we hope it can become an e-sport someday.” And somehow we got from that to where we are now.

Jamais vu.5284:

Funny that you say that, when all of those features (barring SoloQ) are incredibly e-sports centric. Which average player cares about leaderboards?
Or spectates (especially if there was no e-sports scene to begin with)?
They all were developed at the expense of features that would actually lure in players, like new/improved game modes or (PVE-exchangeable) rewards.

I partially agree with you on spectator mode. Right after launch, top-tier players were calling loudly for spectator mode because they wanted to be seen. I wasn’t sure that was exactly what PvP needed, but Anet obliged. It was also heralded as a good way for new players to learn, which I can also understand.

Leaderboards don’t really have much to do with “esports,” since all of the major tournaments have basically been invitational or open sign-ups so far. It’s just a ranking tied to matchmaking. I mean, PvE has a leaderboard too.

Matchmaking certainly has nothing to do with esports, since major tournaments don’t need it. The game launched without it, and it has since been added. It will get a major upgrade in a few days.

So spectator mode was maybe partially influenced by players obsessed with esports, but none of the other decisions have been. Certainly, none of Anet’s decisions over the last year justify the forum’s obsession with esports.

Esports status should naturally come to a game. Certain aspects such as watchability and a good game mode is what makes games become esports. As of right now, conquest as an esports map is not working and it’s the little things that hinder the development of esports.

Overall damage is too high which makes the speed of the game way too fast. I’m sure a lot of you guys have watched the tournaments and shoutcasters to see that. The shoutcasters talk a mile a minute. It’s a lot to take in especially when there’s a big fight for mid point. If someone goes down, it doesn’t seem like it affects the match like a death in dota or lol would. So not dying is also part of the strategy because you give your opponents points when you yourself die.

The conquest game mode itself needs a lot of work, but since it’s the only game mode since release, a lot of people are tired of seeing it. I don’t know what else to suggest for conquest because I’m also tired of playing it.

I feel the reason why MOBA style games are so popular now is because there really is a lot of strategy involved. Losing a tower, gaining a buff, and even dying affects your team, but not so much that your team is doomed or guaranteed success. There are ways to slowly fight back and still win. In GW2, once you’re 100 pts behind, its almost impossible to catch up. Sure in Forest or Foefire, you can kill the npcs for points and maybe catch a break and win the match, but I think with those maps there should be more npcs that are worth less points so that you have to weigh into your strategy whether or not taking out a certain number of npcs will reward or punish your team.

I’m just rambling at this point, and am just gonna be a little more patient to see if new game modes will actually be released. Otherwise, it’s a wrap.

I really don’t think Gw2 has a chance at E-sports at this point or much of a competitive scene either. I think a lot of other game companies have noticed where Gw2 has gone wrong and will be out doing them far before Gw2 is at a level to start attracting a crowd back.

Release hurt. A lot. So many features weren’t done. Tons of players quit.

Its not just that the features weren’t there its that Arena net had shown them that they were not a priority. Features showing up in a couple years time won’t bring them back because they know the culture of the company still isn’t behind them.

Yes you have a PvP team that tries to promote it, but its the ratio of how small it is compared to what is being done elsewhere. They can try but it still doesn’t reflect on what the people who get the final say think. Like the Dev panel at pax, they didn’t understand Pvp, anything PvP related was a generic hash of the same thing. Then there was the ticket system which was a complete failure to monetize PvP at the players expense.

The culture for esports has to also come from the company. Players need to know their time invested is valuable and they can trust the company to look after issues that come up. Only if that is met can the players start building up a community and honestly the players that leave first are usually the ones looking to build that community as they get burned out first.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Certainly, none of Anet’s decisions over the last year justify the forum’s obsession with esports.

Besides how Anet was saying the were making a game for esports.
I mean, besides that, yeah they have done nothing to show they have any interest in it.

garethh.3518:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Certainly, none of Anet’s decisions over the last year justify the forum’s obsession with esports.

Besides how Anet was saying the were making a game for esports.
I mean, besides that, yeah they have done nothing to show they have any interest in it.

See, that’s what I mean. That’s not actually true. I know the forums keep saying that the devs were promising esports since before launch; thing is, that’s incorrect. There were no blog posts saying they were making an esport, no promotional videos saying they were making an esport. There were no trailers with the word “esport” in them.

A couple devs made statements to the effect that they really liked GW2 PvP and thought it would do really well, they hoped it would even be played as an esport. That’s it.

Does it even matter whether GW2 was announced as eSport or not? Fact is, top-players either already quit or are totally upset with the way ANet is treating (or not treating) GW2-pvp. And from my ‘random guy casual tpvp point of view’, I kinda understand them actually.

And I think the next patch won’t solve the problems. There’s a lot of number-tweaking going on, which is for sure nice at some points, but I think the problem of GW2 is more fundamental. It’s all the cheese, spam and particle-supernovas. In my oppinion, this can hardly be solved by simple number tweaks and/or swaps of traits, there are more fundamental changes in design-philosophy needed.

esports when top teams already left? too little too late…

Archaon.6245:

esports when top teams already left? too little too late…

Really? Those “top teams” were simply above average players that formed a team.
If GW2 actually started to become competitive at some point, these top teams would quickly seem very mediocre.
I’ve seen players on top teams running in circles spamming bombs and grenades.
My point: If GW2 was actually fixed, new and better teams would form.

KrisHQ.4719:

Archaon.6245:

esports when top teams already left? too little too late…

Really? Those “top teams” were simply above average players that formed a team.
If GW2 actually started to become competitive at some point, these top teams would quickly seem very mediocre.
I’ve seen players on top teams running in circles spamming bombs and grenades.
My point: If GW2 was actually fixed, new and better teams would form.

Team Paradigm-Team Curse are above the average players..

The right way IMO is:
PvP has to be fun to play
THEN more people will play it
THEN more people will want to watch the “pro’s” how they do it and what they do better
and finally someday maybe there will be a base of people that is interrestet in watching gw2 pvp

-create a game mode thats simply fun to play
-make it possible to support your groupmates in a direct way to get a form of teamplay, and that teams that play together will do better than strong egos/solo players (i.e. walls, protects, shields, targettet aegis maybe even heals)
-reduce the fight speed
-create a ui where you can see where your groupmates are onscreen, not on the minimap, and how their health and conditions are
-create a Mists ui where you can choose on a easy way what you want to play in pvp, spvp,tpvp, soloQ,(maybe activities, and hopefully a possibility to join as groups or against a friend group, would make it 100% more fun)- there still are beginners who never find out that there is a other pvp than hotjoin in this game without getting help from players.
-maybe there will be a comeback wave if you bring a huge pvp update with significant changes and promote it

NevirSayDie.6235:

garethh.3518:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Certainly, none of Anet’s decisions over the last year justify the forum’s obsession with esports.

Besides how Anet was saying the were making a game for esports.
I mean, besides that, yeah they have done nothing to show they have any interest in it.

See, that’s what I mean. That’s not actually true. I know the forums keep saying that the devs were promising esports since before launch; thing is, that’s incorrect. There were no blog posts saying they were making an esport, no promotional videos saying they were making an esport. There were no trailers with the word “esport” in them.

A couple devs made statements to the effect that they really liked GW2 PvP and thought it would do really well, they hoped it would even be played as an esport. That’s it.

?‘??’??
Were you even here around beta?‘?
Next to every word about PvP was centered around ’esports’.
Don’t talk if you have literally no knowledge of what you’re talking about.
Sorry to be so rude, but you’re just ENTIRELY making kitten up, and I’ll ask you to please stop.
><

http://www.videogamer.com/pc/guild_wars_2/news/guild_wars_2_making_pvp_an_esport_is_a_primary_goal.html
quote from jsharp explicitly saying that the main goal of GW2 PvP is for esports.
Dated 2011.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/08/21/guild-wars-2-paves-the-way-for-e-sports/

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/08/21/guild-wars-2-pvp-designer-talks-e-sports-spectator-mode-and-streaming/

Official GW2 news post.

Great links garethh, really shows that ANet did in fact talk about eSports quite a bit.

IMO, GW2 PvP failed to become an eSport, and never will be an eSport. The game has too many problems; visual clutter, low skill ceiling, lack of build diversity, and lack of game-play diversity.

With that being said, I still enjoy the game, and I like playing PvP on a casual basis. I even dare to hope that a few more people will trickle into the PvP scene once proper rewards and new game modes are added

I’d watch a GW2 TDM PvP stream. Watching how pro players deal with certain classes and builds as a group would be very interesting to me. Who they chose to target first, who they chose to ignore, what skills they bring, if they utilize combo fields and such would be very appealing.

I’ve played so many hundreds of conquest games that I really don’t feel like watching players better than me do it. I barely want to play it myself. There’s a reason duel servers usually have more players than normal conquest matches.

garethh.3518:

snip

Thanks for remaining polite as always. Those are basically the quotes I was talking about—some devs saying things like they want to “appeal to professional gamers” and that there’s a “big iceberg” of things they “want to do.” One dev even said that esports was a “primary goal.”

I just don’t see the connection between that and weekly esports threads that supposedly shame the devs into trying harder.

The PC gamer article you linked is especially interesting. Its conclusion is:

“Structured PvP could end up being one of Guild Wars 2’s surprise hits: we’re already excited about world vs. world and dynamic events, but we’ve not seen an MMO house a successful e-sport before. It’s another item on the growing list of ambitious things that ArenaNet want to do to the MMO, and it’ll be fascinating to watch how it pans out.”

NevirSayDie.6235:

I just don’t see the connection between that and weekly esports threads that supposedly shame the devs into trying harder.

People buy a game based off of expectation.
GW1 was a major PvP based success and was close to esports quality.
Next to every article/blog/post by devs about PvP before release and during beta talked about GW2 and high hopes for esports if not ‘it is our main focus’.

Surprise, surprise; many, many, many people bought GW2 because they thought it would be esports quality.
The game is the furthest thing from it.

IMO posts chastising the devs seems to be brought up pretty regularly because Anet hasn’t tossed out the idea that GW2 can be an esport… it’s a claim so far fetched to some that it actually insults them, especially when kitten like ‘the game is building towards it’ is said, GW2 being a game that those posters clearly see is in not even in a place to bandy around the word… even with an ‘on the horizon’ tagged on…

garethh.3518:

IMO posts chastising the devs seems to be brought up pretty regularly because Anet hasn’t tossed the idea that GW2 can be an esport… GW2 being a game that those posters clearly see is in no shape to even toss the word around as an ‘on the horizon’…

Right, that’s what I mean. It’s not like people are offering feedback, it’s just insult threads, nothing more.

As the third-party articles you link show, the devs have always had a dream or goal of GW2 PvP eventually being played at a top competitive level. That’s a far cry from “false advertising” or “broken promises” like the accusations we see incessantly on the forums.

Especially when the same third-party articles interviewing the devs about their plans for PvP included paragraphs like “we’ve never seen an MMO house a successful esport before, it will be interesting to see what happens.”

You can have the best modes and Features in a game. . . If the Balance is as worse as it is in GW2 now, ppl won’t enjoy it. it’s that simple.

You really think Players like combats decided by AI and passive-kitten? Where skill and other Parameters doesn’t matter? Where every Player can jump into the game and perform better than an experienced one, just because he Plays the right build? And you wonder why this game is not an e-Sport? Really???

It doesn’t even matter if there were several game-modes or a good reward System. If the combat is not fun, ppl won’t enjoy it. As Long as A-Net still accepts the passiveness and even boost AI-oriented builds, this game will never reach a good state of PvP, not even talking about E-Sports . . .

Justin ODell.9517:

@garethh.3518 – I don’t agree with you as far as something being a flop, but I will say that the progress we’ve made so far is only part of the puzzle that we need to complete before we can consider PvP to be successful.

While I do agree that there is a possibility that things in gw2 will be better, but the first step in fixing something that is obviously flawed is to admit that the PvP in this game in it’s current state is busted. Nothing is going to be fixed if your PvP team and or yourself is in denial about PvP being a “flop”. Being optimistic is great, but there is a fine line between being optimistic and being delusional.

Countless

The shark has already been jumped. As soon as A-net realizes its about keeping what is left of the of the pvp player base and gives up these delusions of e-sports grandeur the better. This game still cost $50 bucks to buy unless they make the pvp portion of it free it has already jumped the shark. It will never grow significantly sorry to say that is the history of MMORPGs most people give games one shot and they don’t come back.

I feel that most of the players that have left are just taking a back seat to see what happens. It’s possible to bring these players back, but something drastic has to happen.

Heres a reason why you don’t see MMOs being eSports. Look at what games top the list of eSports: FPSs, MOBAs and fighters, then look at what they have in common. They ate all very easy to balance. FPSs don’t really need much balancing to begin with, and both MOBAs and fighters have a very small skillset per character to sort out.

In a MMO there’s up to hundreds of skills and countless builds you need to balance and what you end up with is basically an impossible task. You can never really balance a MMO up to the level needed for an eSport without killing its grow or diversity.

I bet the idea to remove the wonderful dual-class system from GW1 was to do with trying to make the game eSport worthy. I’d say abandon the eSport idea and just focus on what people actually play games for : fun.

Working under a incompetent Management will stop you, my friend . . .

Justin ODell.9517:

brannigan.9831:

The shark has already been jumped.

Kitten that kittening shark! I’m gonna go all Illusionary Whaler on it!

I feel what you guys are saying. We’re putting together a puzzle, and that puzzle isn’t complete. Some of you see where we are so far and say our pieces are wrong. I say no one piece by itself is going to complete this puzzle.

Maybe I’m more optimistic because I can see more pieces than you guys (which is a shame), or maybe because I have a better idea what the completed puzzle is going to look like.

Either way, my personal mission is to make GW2 PvP the best it kitten can be, and no shark or troll is going to slow me down!

It would be great if you guys could make an official statement regarding the future of PvP. And this time around, I’m not referring to “We want to build the best future for GW2 we can blabla.”
I know that there are people like me, that are watching the forums and posting suggestions with a small hope that we can push the game in a certain direction. It would be great if you could tell us where your boundaries lie. How much are you willing to change, what will never change etc.
Since there is no point in creating tons of posts and threads, if you are not even taking them into consideration because the proposed changes are “too drastic” or whatever the reason might be.

Justin ODell.9517:

brannigan.9831:

The shark has already been jumped.

Kitten that kittening shark! I’m gonna go all Illusionary Whaler on it!

I feel what you guys are saying. We’re putting together a puzzle, and that puzzle isn’t complete. Some of you see where we are so far and say our pieces are wrong. I say no one piece by itself is going to complete this puzzle.

Maybe I’m more optimistic because I can see more pieces than you guys (which is a shame), or maybe because I have a better idea what the completed puzzle is going to look like.

Either way, my personal mission is to make GW2 PvP the best it kitten can be, and no shark or troll is going to slow me down!

Does the complete puzzle include immobilize stacking? Because it’s these kind of mechanics and weird decisions that make players question the direction of this game.
And i haven’t see any dev say why you guys made this decision yet.

I wish you could complete the puzzle sooner..Im 27 yo and i dont see myself having time to play this game more…Wife, job, kids..I dont have time to wait for your puzzle guys.Its been a great experience so far but sorry ,i cant keep waiting

This thread really shows how naive the game devs can be… their whole attitude is that they’ll get there. they just need to balance the game, make some changes, add some features, and the whole esport thing will follow.

That’s naive thinking. That’s like having a WoW dev saying that they’ll just invest more to bring in more developers, and put out more content and the player base will increase. it’s not that simple and that sort of naive thinking is what held gw2 in its position – a standstill – for the past year.

Try sitting down and really asking yourselves what exactly the game needs to become an esport, rather than saying that with balance and the ‘foundation’ the playerbase + esport recognition will follow.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Working under a incompetent Management will stop you, my friend . . .

LMAO, the fact that you said it right after his inspirational speech was priceless

Invizible.2960:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Working under a incompetent Management will stop you, my friend . . .

LMAO, the fact that you said it right after his inspirational speech was priceless

Priceless…and so true……

Good rewards are really missing…. You win a match against a good team and what you get? Some corn for Pve lol…

We should get Halloween pvp items… Each season we should have exclusive pvp items as rewards… Not only winning reward but achievements for example:

1) Killed 200 thieves — title Police Officer , new sword skin unlocked at pvp vendor…

This was just an idea, but rewards are missing in pvp…