Guild Wars 2

Krayiss.4926:

Allie Murdock.8152:

What I’m trying to do is help you guys to understand how things work here, and why things are done the way they are done, and how you can help if you really want to.

Please tell us how the things work there in the balance team. !!! ?
June 25 necromancers received 2 new conditions; Dhuumfire + Torment + a load of other things, OP spectral wall, spectral armors in DS what a great idea!
Also if you know or not how they thought this was a good idea or be honest and tell us whether or not it was tested.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Time is needed to balance, it can’t be done at the snap of a finger.

Give us some examples of the time frame needed to balance something like this? because its been months. /winky face

@Allie
Bumped for answer

Anyways Devs prolly gone

Also I want to second the fact that these big patches from the devs suck.
And we need them to focus on small balances every 1-2 weeks so we don’t get the game broken this bad for so long.

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

I only started PvP recently, with a Guardian. This went well until the past patch or two (wasn’t paying enough attention, sorry) and now I can’t seem to stay alive against a ranger or Necro.

I switched to a Necro and after a couple of Ames getting the hang of it, I was doing well again.. With all the minions I could get my hands on and no research on builds.

There is only one area which I feel really hurts my experience:

targeting.

I use the call target to keep an eye on who I am fighting, but any player who can cloak is un targeted when they reappear. Toons who don’t have this ability remain targeted, even after they die and respawn. (Targeting also help me avoid constantly getting retargeted to minions and pets)

To me, that’s a huge issue, especially when trying to find my mouse cursor (making it turn red doesn’t they’ll any!) while using right mouse to turn my character.

I don’t know how other players control their toons, but using mouse with rt-click to strafe and turn can be a painful experience.

Help! I want to be a PvP guru, but not like this…

Bind your A and D to the respective strafe directions. Works wonders. You dont need the A/D turning anyways since its crap.

Allie Murdock.8152:

2. What exactly is your definition of fun? Fun is subjective, no?

Everything is subjective, since Descartes at least. If we’re going to believe in relativism, just close forums, because everything is subjective or opinions.
Some people enjoy Skyhammer, and like to being instant killed by a pushback, a ground disapearing below his feet, or some random factor, like your skills don’t working because of lag. Skyhammer is fun your 1st time, your 2nd time, after your 3rd time you realize you’re forced to play certain classes and builds, just to instant kill your enemy or avoid being ejected of the map.
We can’t teach you what is fun (we shouldn’t), common sense isn’t teachable neither, sadly.

Luvboard.3567:

Krayiss.4926:

Allie Murdock.8152:

What I’m trying to do is help you guys to understand how things work here, and why things are done the way they are done, and how you can help if you really want to.

Please tell us how the things work there in the balance team. !!! ?
June 25 necromancers received 2 new conditions; Dhuumfire + Torment + a load of other things, OP spectral wall, spectral armors in DS what a great idea!
Also if you know or not how they thought this was a good idea or be honest and tell us whether or not it was tested.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Time is needed to balance, it can’t be done at the snap of a finger.

Give us some examples of the time frame needed to balance something like this? because its been months. /winky face

@Allie
Bumped for answer

Anyways Devs prolly gone

Also I want to second the fact that these big patches from the devs suck.
And we need them to focus on small balances every 1-2 weeks so we don’t get the game broken this bad for so long.

Agreed. Ally mentioned that there isn’t a PvP Balance Team, only a Balance Team. WHY? PvP is a completely separate game aspect of the game with different paradigms and strategies. You NEED different teams to operate independently and create different balances for areas of the game. Playing against an AI isn’t nearly the same as fighting another player, why should the skill balance for these two aspects of the game resemble each other at all?

Players are smart, they can figure out that skills need to operate differently in PvP and PvE. You’re not going to confuse and alienate players by balancing PvE and PvP separately, in fact you’ll almost certainly spur growth in both areas as you create a more desirable balance in each.

my feedback:

first of i wanna say, that i know u guys are working hard and probably reach points where it is hard to find solutions. it is sometimes hard for us to wait for a fi and thats why there is a lot of angry posts. i’m also frustrated atm, but know u guys will somehow fix it.
But sometimes i feel like the balance team doesnet play the game at all and balances based on numbers and whining. get in game play all classes and see for yourself where the issues are!

test server! we need it badly, as certain metas would never see the daylight if we could have tested those buffs before.

as a mesmer i almost feel hated by the devs. last time jonathan sharp said that u could make a case that mesmers are having a hard time, but they have tools, but people dont like to use them.
well, after that statement i went full condition cleansing used the mantra, the traited torch, even armor for cleansing, cleansing on shatter with the result: i survived 5 seconds longer than usual, was not able to recast the kitten mantra( btw that is the main issue with mantras, they have no viable place in game atm), and i had nothing to get even 1 kill! and the backstab spamming thief destroyed me even faster.
so how about u guys try to play all the classes.

also wvw and spvp has to be separated. a few things your balance team misses:
u buffed the warrior due to spvp( which was needed, but the cc spam is too much) but they turned into beasts in wvw ( 15-20k killshots 13k eviscerate even if i wear toughness rabid gear?) ,
permastealth thieves( 7k-10k backstabs),
and now u release a rune that grants interrupt spammers 5 stacks of confusion for 10 seconds with no cooldown, where as u nerfed glambuilds so confusion wouldnt stack that high anymore, but now warriors can spam it…..doesnt make sense to me at all

in spvp i would love to see mutiple viable builds. to be honest i dont like phantasm builds or pure shatter builds …also where are u heading with the mesmer and the ele?

i like getting into spvp and yes i die there a lot, but there is nothing better than a balanced duel with a skilled player without cheesy stunlock spams, or a condition bomb or being almost killed by 1 single hit that came out of stealth.
stuff like that makes it frustrating.

ok this is kinda hard to explain and english is my 4th language, so ill try:
how about each class community elects some representatives (like people that did podcasts)that could have some sort of meeting with the balance team in some way or like a live chat or something? those people should be mature and also collect issues, bugs and suggestions for the devs and also those people would be good for testing certain changes.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Firstly, we have no qualm or rivalry with Helseth.

That aside, I have some questions, and would like to address some other points made.

1. What exactly do you mean by allocating resources to eSports?
2. What exactly is your definition of fun? Fun is subjective, no?

While we definitely appreciate it when players are vocal and provide feedback, excessive hyperbole does not help us to understand the fundamental issue.

Some more points:
1. The current meta is not controlled by the PvP team. Yes, we monitor it closely as balance greatly affects PvP. However, no resources are being taken away from PvP development in order to do balance. So I’d like to just squash that misconception now.

2. Skill effect clutter – another thing not controlled by the PvP team. Another thing that we monitor and provide feedback to the teams that do control it.

3. Sending out in-game mail is not as easy as it sounds. Keep in mind that every message that is sent has to be edited and localized.

• This is, however, something we recognize as an area to be improved. We are investigating ways to provide in-game messaging for events.

4. Lastly, I want to thank you for promoting the guildwars2pvptv channel. I always see a few people on the team with the stream always going on their 2nd/3rd monitors. Once PAX has past, we’ll be looking to better promote streamers from all areas of the game. So keep it up!!

About in-game mail not being easy to do. Just Lol Allie. Living World team does atleast 4-5 mails every 2 weeks and you guys can’t make 1 mail per MAJOR PvP tournament?

Either you don’t that because:

• It would break immersion (LOL)
• Resource heavy just for a PvP event (Not really to laugh about, it’s sad)

I get so tired of Allie’s posts. All she ever says is ’that’s not our fault’ or ‘we can’t control that’ or the ever cute ‘oh different people are saying different things so I guess we just can’t do anything!’ I see a red response to a post, and it gets my hope up, and then all I see are excuses.

dreztina.4820:

I get so tired of Allie’s posts. All she ever says is ’that’s not our fault’ or ‘we can’t control that’ or the ever cute ‘oh different people are saying different things so I guess we just can’t do anything!’ I see a red response to a post, and it gets my hope up, and then all I see are excuses.

I’d also like to know:

Why are pvp players treated as second class citizens?
Why every single patch of the game since release had pve content while only 1/3 of the patches were adressed to the pvp community?
Why do we have to handle 2 months with a broken balance?
Why do we have to wait 1 year for new pvp rewards?
Why is the rank system so stupid (3 years till rank 80)?
Why are the qps we got useless? Do you realize people paid gems for paid tickets to see them removed suddenly?
Why are the leaderboards and matchmaking broken and without any reward?
Why do devs laught at people saying temple is poping too much and later they recognize their mistake?
Why is the class balance based on 10 people playing a pax tourney no one cares when they aren’t even the best players (at least 5 of them)?

@Allie making questions is really easy. Now work in the answers.

I actually agree with this Rant

When SWTOR is whooping your kitten in SPvP when that’s what you’re trying your hardest to be amazing at..You should examine what you’re doing.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, bigger patches don’t always equal better.

So I guess you guys learnt that one the hard way huh. I’m sorry but I really don’t appreciate you patronising everyone with questions like “what is fun?”. Helseth’s claims may often seem outlandish, but what he is describing is how he feels,and the truth is that these sentiments are shared with a huge population of pvpers. This is how we feel, you can’t just dismiss this or label it as subjective without alienating a lot of people.

You say you want constructive criticism. Well, I personally would like to see a LOT more transparency. I’ve noticed the player interaction has really dwindled in the spvp forum as of late, with pretty much every post that mentions balance being completely ignored. You say there are reasons other than PAX that stop you from pushing balance changes, yet you fail to enlighten us — are we not entitled to understand why you are leaving the game in a sorry state for an extended period of time?

Also, please don’t lash out at players in this thread saying that if they don’t give you info you can’t do anything about it; this information is in abundance in the spvp forum. There are extensive notes and suggestions and it feels like they’re being ignored. I’m explicitly stating that this is what it feels like before you start an argument.

The players in the pvp scene are understandably angry and this is reflected in their posts. You, however, have no right to be so rude.

You all scared her off!!

+1 Rerroll.9083

Luvboard.3567:

You all scared her off!!

+1 Rerroll.9083

Too bad my posts are not “constructive” enough to survive till tomorrow

sigh

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Bind your A and D to the respective strafe directions. Works wonders. You dont need the A/D turning anyways since its crap.

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, I already do that.. :P

Allie Murdock.8152:

Volrath.1473:

Get into the game and play it, talk with ppl in the Mists (if you can find anyone there) there are dozens of threads in this subforum with detailed feedback, videos, screenshots, practical examples and some suggestions too.

I don’t understand why you keep asking for constructive feedback have you read it all already? if so, i’m sure you won’t need any more…

So, I shouldn’t promote constructive feedback because of why?

Do you want us to actually fix the problems you are having, or do you want us to just wing-it without knowing what the actual problem is?

It’s completely your choice to use hyperbole and not be constructive, but don’t expect us to read your mind or understand how to fix the issue if you don’t give us any detailed information regarding it.

Yes, there is constructive feedback. However, if we get 1 constructive post out of 10, how do we know that it’s a real issue if those 9 posts don’t actually give us any information?

Hey Allie,

I’m glad to see you actively involved in the thread. Personally, I usually have a sarcastic approach of how gw2 pvp is currently being handled. But to be fair, I’m sure the gw2 team really does try their best though.

I’ll try to lay out my personal opinions about pvp currently. The only thing I can really compare it to is gw1, since that was the pvp game I played for many years. So in that respect my opinions are always measured by the bar gw1 set. Here goes:

Pros:

1. Dynamic combakittens very fun to watch.
2. Potential for each class to fill any role
3. Dodge is potentially a good mechanic
4. Foundation for unique team work mechanics in place (combos)
5. Class themes are great

Cons:

1. Lack of counter skills, in gw1 have a problem with a melee train? Bring a anti melee skills like empathy, blind, spiteful spirit. This is non existent in gw2.

2. Lack of punishment with skills. This is why perma stealth exists, this is why spam exists, actions aren’t being punished if you do not land them or tactfully use them. Abusive mechanics need to be eliminated.

3. Lack of intellectual approach to skills. On paper we have things like chill, weakness etc. In gw1, one would stop to think when is the appropriate time to use these skills. In gw2, you just spam because you can get away with it.

4. Aoe is much too strong, needs to be toned down.

5. Casting bars are missing, I know Anet said they wanted players to observe animations and such. Problem with this is, tiny characters, instant animations and bright particle effects negate this reasoning.

6. Dodge is just available too much, it really needs to feel like a choice you do not want to blow on any skill.

7. Classes are pigeon hold into roles due to lack of coherence in trait design. For example guardian is generally bunker, because nothing else is generally that effective due to class design.

8. Lack of game modes that rival GW1. No HoH, AB etc.

9. Spvp feels like its disconnected from every other aspect in the game. In gw1 players could bring their pve skins to pvp. Pvp players could win stuff to sell from chest that helps them in pve. So there was a unity between the two.

10. Assist target audio doesn’t not play, the assist target ping in gw1 was superior. Since it got ones attention.

11. Damage in pvp is way too high. It says a lot when someone with high toughness gets flatlined in a matter of secs. Damage needs to be toned down or more anti damage buffs need to be introduced. Example: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Protective_Spirit http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Reversal_of_Fortune

12. There are just too many ways to disable enemies in pvp

13. Conditions are a bit too strong, but if they were changed condition removal would feel too strong. A balance must be created.

14. Too much passive and AI gameplay in a pvp game. Summons, passive traits etc.

15. Game lacks teamwork compared to the original

These are just my opinions of course, some may agree some may not. That is ok.

In the coming months I really hope devs change pvp for the better. Right now it sort of feels like the hidden feature of gw2. No one knows about it and its pretty much separated from everything else.

I feel with more ways to counter enemy builds, it would open the doors to more versatility and competitiveness. I also feel that there has to be a distinction between single target and aoe. Right now aoe is just too strong and spammy.

Allie Murdock.8152:

2. What exactly is your definition of fun? Fun is subjective, no?

yes, it is very subjective.

for me, i find fun inside gw2 spvp 8 vs 8 public game rooms.
some people find fun in solo / team arena.
etc.

Aza.2105:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Volrath.1473:

Get into the game and play it, talk with ppl in the Mists (if you can find anyone there) there are dozens of threads in this subforum with detailed feedback, videos, screenshots, practical examples and some suggestions too.

I don’t understand why you keep asking for constructive feedback have you read it all already? if so, i’m sure you won’t need any more…

So, I shouldn’t promote constructive feedback because of why?

Do you want us to actually fix the problems you are having, or do you want us to just wing-it without knowing what the actual problem is?

It’s completely your choice to use hyperbole and not be constructive, but don’t expect us to read your mind or understand how to fix the issue if you don’t give us any detailed information regarding it.

Yes, there is constructive feedback. However, if we get 1 constructive post out of 10, how do we know that it’s a real issue if those 9 posts don’t actually give us any information?

Hey Allie,

I’m glad to see you actively involved in the thread. Personally, I usually have a sarcastic approach of how gw2 pvp is currently being handled. But to be fair, I’m sure the gw2 team really does try their best though.

I’ll try to lay out my personal opinions about pvp currently. The only thing I can really compare it to is gw1, since that was the pvp game I played for many years. So in that respect my opinions are always measured by the bar gw1 set. Here goes:

Pros:

1. Dynamic combakittens very fun to watch.
2. Potential for each class to fill any role
3. Dodge is potentially a good mechanic
4. Foundation for unique team work mechanics in place (combos)
5. Class themes are great

Cons:

1. Lack of counter skills, in gw1 have a problem with a melee train? Bring a anti melee skills like empathy, blind, spiteful spirit. This is non existent in gw1.

2. Lack of punishment with skills. This is why perma stealth exists, this is why spam exists, actions aren’t being punished if you do not land them or tactfully use them. Abusive mechanics need to be eliminated.

3. Lack of intellectual approach to skills. On paper we have things like chill, weakness etc. In gw1, one would stop to think when is the appropriate time to use these skills. In gw2, you just spam because you can get away with it.

4. Aoe is much too strong, needs to be toned down.

5. Casting bars are missing, I know Anet said they wanted players to observe animations and such. Problem with this is, tiny characters, instant animations and bright particle effects negate this reasoning.

6. Dodge is just available too much, it really needs to feel like a choice you do not want to blow on any skill.

7. Classes are pigeon hold into roles due to lack of coherence in trait design. For example guardian is generally bunker, because nothing else is generally that effective due to class design.

8. Lack of game modes that rival GW1. No HoH, AB etc.

9. Spvp feels like its disconnected from every other aspect in the game. In gw1 players could bring their pve skins to pvp. Pvp players could win stuff to sell from chest that helps them in pve. So there was a unity between the two.

10. Assist target audio doesn’t not play, the assist target ping in gw1 was superior. Since it got ones attention.

11. Damage in pvp is way too high. It says a lot when someone with high toughness gets flatlined in a matter of secs. Damage needs to be toned down or more anti damage buffs need to be introduced. Example: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Protective_Spirit http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Reversal_of_Fortune

12. There are just too many ways to disable enemies in pvp

13. Conditions are a bit too strong, but if they were changed condition removal would feel too strong. A balance must be created.

14. Too much passive and AI gameplay in a pvp game. Summons, passive traits etc.

15. Game lacks teamwork compared to the original

These are just my opinions of course, some may agree some may not. That is ok.

In the coming months I really hope devs change pvp for the better. Right now it sort of feels like the hidden feature of gw2. No one knows about it and its pretty much separated from everything else.

I feel with more ways to counter enemy builds, it would open the doors to more versatility and competitiveness. I also feel that there has to be a distinction between single target and aoe. Right now aoe is just too strong and spammy.

+ 1000XXXXXXXXXX…..

In a nutshell why GW1 rule and GW2 suck, great job, really great job

Regardless of whats “fun” or not, ANET should be able to discern what is anti-fun and try to do something about it.
This, meaning, instantcast abilities with no counterplay, Asuras being too small, abilities sharing the same animations, aoe spam which forces dodge spam which forces aoe spam.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Rambodacious.7495 – whoa! Talk about some awesome feedback! Really appreciate the time you put into your post and it’s constructive manner. Definitely not a waste of my time.

Phaeton.9582, thanks for the encouragement!

Rambo pretty much covered all the bases.
Please, take what he/she said to heart. I’d like to add that a lot of the fans that supported the original guild wars were in it for the PvP portion. The ones that I know have long since left, while some have grinded their way to rank 40-50, but adding more gametypes, less grind, and more rewards would not only encourage new people to try out guild wars 2, but also encourage those who dropped it to come back.

Allie Murdock.8152:

2. What exactly is your definition of fun? Fun is subjective, no?

This is my opinion, but I think the standard of fun should always be at minimal something that the developer and immediate friends and family of the developer team can wholeheartedly agree that something is indeed fun and enjoyable without fear of hurting the feelings of the people involved.

If you wanted to 1-up that, I would say you should look at MMOs whose PvP players hold in high regards and take a day at the office to play them and if you can confidently say that PvP in this game stacks up then you are doing it perfectly, otherwise it will likely be inspiration for improvement.

I am sure Colin would go for that. Couldn’t hurt haha.

Hey Allie,

Adding 1v1, deathmatch with it’s own leaderboards would be a good one. And as I seem to read, mb changing the way the leaderboard stats are calculated. And create a filter that gives the best per each class.
And about rewards… I’d like to see a monthly pvp leaderboard, with the best of the month, overall and per class. With rewards for being the best. Some nice incentives;
- Monthly titles, for overall: August PVP Hero, August Ranger Hero w/e (I suck at thinking up titles I know)
- Receiving a ticket when finishing first (overall or class), which can be turned in to get an exclusive weapon set of your choice to use for the current month, with a nice golden hero style glow or w/e, mb a herostyle crown or something. Anything that would show what u accomplished the last month.

5v5 conquest ain’t always fun, I’ve had great and fun games with a lot of fights, also had a lot where I was just running and capping.
The biggest thrill in pvp for me is the battle before or after taking a point, not taking the point itself. Or the big battles that happen in the middle of the map. The caps are not interesting from an esport pov, seeing good and skilled players pwn each other is.

But some might find it fun and challenging to cap points with the enemy not suspecting it, which to me makes it a more tactical challenge than a skill challenge. And imho pvp should be about skill.

Hope this makes a little sense, if it doesn’t… well hey I’m Dutch, sue me :P

[/quote]

This is the excessive hyperbole that I mentioned in my post. You have every right to complain, but we can’t really understand your problem unless you actually provide some constructive feedback.[/quote]

I haven’t read the rest of this topic yet but I really need to say few things. Allie you want details for what the problems are well come on we don’t get paid to fix the game we are paying you ( aned ) to do your job. What we can tell you there is some serious problem with this and this profession. If just one person make’s a topic ye ok he is noob and can’t play the game. But if people post for weeks on this forum and all complain for same stuff then there is a big problem.
No I don’t want you (anet) to play the game instead of fixing bugs. I want you (anet) to play 2 hours and you will see the problems. This forum feels like politics community and large says there is a problem and then anet tells you amm buddy it’s all in your head there is no such thing.
Yes I know the game will never be at perfect balance and yes I know it takes time to do a decent one but come on every single patch so far was worse than the one before it.
What is the definition of fun? People have deferent points of view. My point this – it’s not fun when I have to use twice as much skill and effort with Mesmer to kill a spirit rangar and only if he is completely clueless of the game. When I did play a spirit ranger I kill everyone but it’s no fun because my pet and bow 1 dose the job I simply sit on the point and rotate the mouse to be in line of sigh.
There is many good stuff in this game a lot of potential yes if you (anet) keep ignoring the big problems then this is doomed to fail. I have heard many times before dead mach will not work because there are no healers!! Yes it will work make it like this for example 3 fights of 2×5 teams 2 out of 3 and there you go a winner. There is a lot of stuff you can bring from gw1. There are a lot of good ideas on the forum and yes more than 60% of them are gibberish but there good once as well.
So far what little responds from anet I saw on this forum is biased on argument and denial from anet to players. I don’t want anet to answer every single one. What I want is when you see a decent topic / comment let us know tell us ‘’ this is a good point we will consider it ‘’ or ‘’ I disagree with you because ..’’’ or ‘’ this is bullkitten it will never happen ‘’
Many on my friends who plaid pvp only felt disappointed and left the game. For one year pvp dint change a lot. Find a way to make ppl play more pvp. I myself posted few things that will make ppl play more pvp and there are many other good ideas on the forum. If aned doesn’t consider them they why the hell did you make this forum ?

Zenith.7301:

He means fun as in game formats that are fun to people.

Conquest does not encourage fun for many people because rather than combat it emphasizes certain build elements, like builds who can bunker and outlast, and the extreme builds that can debunker. Most importantly, you can win most team matches and still lose the game because conquest is about rotating players and neutralizing/capping nodes.

Other formats like capture the flag or death match emphasize other aspects of combat that tend to be fun for most people. Death match in particular.

Conquest also creates a lot of 1v1 scenarios, and this game is horribly balanced on 1v1. There’s no way a necro or ranger will kill a warrior. There’s no way a mesmer will 1v1 a competent thief. There’s no way an elementalist can win against a warrior or s/d thief or necro.

In death match classes which are not good in 1v1 don’t get penalized.

you on drugs man? lol

@Allie,
under fun Helseth likely means that we are stuck with conquest because you are pushing that to be an e-sport, rather than giving us an MMO PvP with variety of gamemodes.

If you don’t want to split the community, I’m still saying that http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/HA ‘s GW2 version is the solution. It has a progressive feeling, has many gamemodes, you don’t always need huge maps, the final map is a real goal, and we only need 1 Que to join for it so it’s not splitting the community

But you should allow solojoin, too. We don’t need rating for it, so people won’t get that mad for a loss, thus having more actual “fun”, therefore splitting solo and team que isn’t necessary.

Well said OP. Couldn’t agree more with the topics mentioned.

IMO sadly there’s very little visible things that going on in PvP.
Maps are added, balance is adjusted. Nothing more really.
Apart what I think about Living Story, they really put many different things to keep people occupied. They are experimenting a lot.
I my mind MMOs always associated with players competing againts each other.
Skillful capturing points is too little to fill this statement. There are many things that players should compete for – how good they are at fighting each other separately and in varied groups, how good they are at fulfilling different objectives – defending, attacking, holding, maybe escorting, helping, gathering, avoiding, being quick, being patient, following orders…

PvP simply don’t deliver varied content. Players may come here and experience it but apart from small icon and one portal in Lion’s Arch there’s no indication that the whole PvP ‘world’ exists.
Guild Halls could help a lot – almost everyone is in guild, there discussion about PvP would be unavoidable, everyone will hear about it, give them portal there, sparring arenas. Give them more variety. Invite people to PvP.

IMO greater variety of types of gameplay would help balancing because there would be a lot more different situations which could show which class and build excel at some things and are poor at others. Isn’t it now that balancing is for fighting where Conquer type requires smart movement?

Wow, i’m shocked. I disagree with so much of what helseth has said in this weeks rant… And i’m the one that posted his first rank on the forums. He’s just stabbing Anet repeatedly and uselessly. It doesn’t take a genius mind to figure out why Anet isn’t completely changing the meta right before PAX. You could say something like “just tweak down necro’s/spirit rangers” But if they did something like that, that could be the tipping point to make other classes viable. COMPLETELY changing the meta and the PAX teams would have what? 2 weeks to practice with a meta that is brand new? No that would just simply be stupid.

I agree with most of what he said but not about balancing before PAX. Even if the current meta is bad, tweaking something right before the tournament is a no go since the teams just got used to this a bit.

Inverted.7439:

Wow, i’m shocked. I disagree with so much of what helseth has said in this weeks rant… And i’m the one that posted his first rank on the forums. He’s just stabbing Anet repeatedly and uselessly. It doesn’t take a genius mind to figure out why Anet isn’t completely changing the meta right before PAX. You could say something like “just tweak down necro’s/spirit rangers” But if they did something like that, that could be the tipping point to make other classes viable. COMPLETELY changing the meta and the PAX teams would have what? 2 weeks to practice with a meta that is brand new? No that would just simply be stupid.

Players adapt to the meta and not the other way around. Seriously how hard is it to play spirit rangers and necros effectively? Probably the 2 most difficult classes to master…
This current meta is not showing if they are truly the best players. Take Sync for example apart from that Caed guy they just play ridiculous OP builds…they can be the worst players in the world and still ele’s and mesmers would be melted while 2 rezz spirits are up. If that is whats Anet wants to show…Congratulations they succeeded.

Allie Murdock.8152:

2. What exactly is your definition of fun? Fun is subjective, no?

It is very subjective, yes.
I once knew a guy that loved to troll and make fun. He usually took it out on someone that he knew would not find it funny, in order to get a reaction.
Once the reaction came, he could then ridicule the poor soul along with his friends…. That was how they had ‘fun’.

There must be some definitions of fun that are more valid than others. If ‘fun’ is to be able to kill someone else with very little effort, then I am sure there are quite a few people having fun atm.
But is it the right kind of fun? I personally don’t think so, because you have to remember the receiving part as well.

Is it really fun to die to random spam? Or to be the one that does not have a counter?

My definition of “fun” is a game where every class can bring something and be competitive towards others. My definition of fun is when you can counter someone’s attack towards you and they can do the same.

Right now, I do feel the game took a step in the wrong direction. I find it to be more spammy than ever. As Helseth said in another rant: There is not any reward for a necromancer to use his marks wisely. They have the potential to be used that way, but there is no reason to. It is all about nuking someone down anyway.

- Why do we have to wait so long for the next balance patch?

- Why can’t minor adjustments be made along the way?

A bit more transparency would be very nice.… What do you think about it all? In which direction do you intend to move the game?

The only thing I have seen for mesmers as an example, is Jonathan Sharp saying:

You could make a case that Mesmers have a hard time in a hard condition meta, and I think a lot of people would agree with you. They have counters to conditions, but a lot of players don’t like to run those in standard Mesmer setups.

Huh – What? like???? We don’t like to run them? Do you really think that is what it is all about?

Sure, as a mesmer I can spec into traits that help me handle the massive amount of conditions and I can stealth my way out of a lot of bad situations. It is just too bad, that using the mechanics I have available to me, decaps the point.

As others have mentioned elsewhere: If there were other game modes that were not all about standing in a very small area then it would not be a problem to the same extend. However, we do not have another game mode.
But this is not just about mesmers. Every profession needs at least one build that can handle conquest but without ruining their build diversity elsewhere. They need to function in pve and wvw as well and it has to be fun.

You are right about that. Fun is the most important thing there is.
I find my stealth condition cleansing build rather fun and I would hate to loose it. But it is not cut out for conquest.

Hiya, Allie Murdock. I hope we haven’t scared you off yet!

I personally think that the pvp forum has been a gold mine of constructive feedback in the last few weeks. The current state of the meta emphasized the biggest flaws in this game’s combat, and people have been deeply discussing every single one of those issues now that they’re clearer to see.

To sum it up, out of memory, the flaws and the discussion in this board have been revolving around: the lack of consequences for spamming skills; the lack of consequences for spamming dodges; the passive AI and the easy-to-master builds; the dominance of aoe spamming (already acknowledged by devs); the lack of counters to some mechanics, like stealth; and the many sources of passive buffs that overload each build with conditions, boons, cleansing and random specs. This excluding out-of-combat issues, like rewards, game modes, infrastructure, etc.

Because the game’s devs are probably too busy not only checking this forum, but playing this game, designing and implementing changes and testing those changes, I wonder if many of those threads have been read and considered. There’s plenty of constructive feedback around here, Allie, and asking for it in this specific thread is like asking for us to repeat what we have written three or four times already.

For that reason, let me forward you to several of my posts where I’ve discussed many of those issues in detail. There’s certainly plenty of valuable feedback from many other posters, but it’s too much for me to go and search for them all.

About the excess of passive effects, and the spamming nature of combat:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Helseth-Rant-Of-The-Week-Topic-Spam/first
Suggestions for dodging:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Should-Sigils-of-Energy-be-removed/first#post2649924
General suggestions:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/When-is-the-next-Major-Balance-patch/first#post2674516

Allie Murdock.8152:

Volrath.1473:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Firstly, we have no qualm or rivalry with Helseth.

That aside, I have some questions, and would like to address some other points made.

1. What exactly do you mean by allocating resources to eSports?
2. What exactly is your definition of fun? Fun is subjective, no?

While we definitely appreciate it when players are vocal and provide feedback, excessive hyperbole does not help us to understand the fundamental issue.

Some more points:
1. The current meta is not controlled by the PvP team. Yes, we monitor it closely as balance greatly affects PvP. However, no resources are being taken away from PvP development in order to do balance. So I’d like to just squash that misconception now.

2. Skill effect clutter – another thing not controlled by the PvP team. Another thing that we monitor and provide feedback to the teams that do control it.

3. Sending out in-game mail is not as easy as it sounds. Keep in mind that every message that is sent has to be edited and localized.

• This is, however, something we recognize as an area to be improved. We are investigating ways to provide in-game messaging for events.

4. Lastly, I want to thank you for promoting the guildwars2pvptv channel. I always see a few people on the team with the stream always going on their 2nd/3rd monitors. Once PAX has past, we’ll be looking to better promote streamers from all areas of the game. So keep it up!!

ok so basically everything that is wrong with the game is not your fault. There is nothing at all under “control” you simply “monitor” thats cute!

I guess it is ours then! this meta is the worse EVER and i believe we all agree on that but it is ofc the players fault for playing the extremely OP professions that YOU made.

This is the excessive hyperbole that I mentioned in my post. You have every right to complain, but we can’t really understand your problem unless you actually provide some constructive feedback.

In other words, stop being vague, get to the point and then expand on it.

matjazmuhic.1649:

I agree with most of what he said but not about balancing before PAX. Even if the current meta is bad, tweaking something right before the tournament is a no go since the teams just got used to this a bit.

you are right! the rest of the world must suffer for 2 month so that a couple of guys can play 3 matches with the current state of the meta! since they are noobs and cant adapt in 2-3 days of testing/training.

/applaud

Allie Murdock.8152:

For sure, I can’t say we’re entirely happy with the meta right now either. Changes are coming.

There is a general consensus about the current meta being an alltime low and the point of this thread is to address the fact it won’t change before PAX (in the name of e-sports). So the entire playerbase feels their time in game is no longer priority and we are stuck playing a horribly flawed meta (not fun)!

Numerous other games simply continue balancing and choose to hold tournaments on a previous patch.

It’s been one year and honestly spvp is the same with a new meta. Every1 has to understand anet prioritizes PVE NOT spvp. Look at the amount of content dished out to pve over the last year compared to spvp.

I mean it’s not really the devs fault…their young and still learning and don’t have the number of staff.

Anyway August 27 will relieve me of this disappoint of a game anyhow. GL

BlackhawkSOM.6401:

It’s been one year and honestly spvp is the same with a new meta. Every1 has to understand anet prioritizes PVE NOT spvp. Look at the amount of content dished out to pve over the last year compared to spvp.

I mean it’s not really the devs fault…their young and still learning and don’t have the number of staff.

Anyway August 27 will relieve me of this disappoint of a game anyhow. GL

If you don’t mind me asking, what’s gonna happen on August 27?

Allie showed clearly how less of an idea they have actually about the game. A team that does balance in general and is not splitted into the 3 modes. I hope you get, that this won’t work. I mean we see your balance patches and there are a lot of so called “fails”, which could be avoided.
Necro was the best example. Players that actually had an idea about the class (A-Net definitely had not) asked for more defensive abilities, and your solution is insane damage through 2 more conditions via traits (sidenote: burning is the strongest condition in the game damagewise).

However, as you wish constructive feedback i’ll give you some. Split the balance teams, because PvE is in everyway different than PvP (warrior showed you that since release). Second point is to get some help and work together with the community more. With this I don’t mean the 99% garbage ppl who write BS in here everyday, just to get the impression of having an idea about the game. I mean ppl who actually invest time trying out every single aspect of the class. Grab them and get a second meaning.

What you did with the SOTG showed us how bad your concept is. You talk about balance and stuff in there and tell some “secrets” you plan to change in the future. When the patch finally arrives all things you promised are messed in a overpowered/underpowered way or never found its way into the game. What you come up with is a totally new package of balance we never heard about. The result of this surprise is huge rage in the forum.
The way how A-Net deals with players who bring critical feedback up? Ignorance.

You had 12 months of constructive feedback. Everyday a person brought up a good aspect to change the game positive. Don’t tell me, you still need feedback to change the elemental issues! Just silly…

I’ll try to give my feedback and explain somethings on helseth’s video without the rambling and exageration.

1) When he talks about using the skills in a more tactical way i think he means that many weapons in the game right now feel like their only purpose is damage. Let me explain using the engineer class: Take a look at the engi riffle, it is considered a utility weapon but it also offers a great deal of damage if you spec for it. You don’t spam riffle skills because you want to keep the launch, imob, and gap closer to use when needed. The dual pistol set on the other hand is simply a condi spammer, you don’t look at it and think when to use it. You think about unloading those condis on your enemy. I think he wants more weapons like the engi riffle and less weapons like the dual pistol set.

2) What he means by fun vs e-sports is that you can’t have e-sports without a large player base(which spvp certainly lacks). Before you can do any kind of e-sports push or marketing you have to care for your player base and make sure that the game is fun and works for the majority of the comunity. Delaying balance changes because of the PAX tournament was a move that made most of your comunity angry because it meant that the meta would remain unfun for longer because of it.

3) A revamp on the rank system is needed because rank doesn’t mean skill, it means hot-join grind. There’s no diference between a rank 45 player and a rank 65 player except who played more hot-join.

4) Rewards and game modes are by no means an e-sports thing. But are a great way to bring more people to pvp and please your current comunity.

5) Animations also need to be taken into consideration when balancing. Esvicerate deals a huge ammount of damage but it’s really well telegraphed so there’s possibility for counter play there, while other things like necro marks, mesmer shatters and the ele burst have almost no animation.

Well, Allie clearly isn’t responsible. Her job is to gather what people write and present it to the Devs.

The balance team on the other hand… it is probably the poorest team in the whole studio. While I can say that sPvP was improved throughout the year, slowly and by not much, but was improved, I cannot say that about balance.

The balance team is just so disjointed from the actual state of the game that it is painful for me to even think of it.

People were giving feedback regarding balance for months and here we are; with cheese being everywhere even though no one asked for it.

Allie, you asked for constructive feedback explaining that it would help you understand the root of the problem. I think, after 12 months, that the problem is inside, not outside, given how much valuable feedback people had given and where we ended.

Blackmoa.3186:

The original post got moved out of the pvp forum so heres a repost.
Keep this alive and share.
http://www.twitch.tv/helsethgw2/c/2779775

This video is 100% on point. Anet really needs to start listening to their PvP community. This game could be amazing. I agree the eSports part of GW2 is not appropriate. When I came back a few months ago, I gave the PvP a year to last…We are about 1/4 through that year and it’s dying a lot faster than I thought it would. This is sad.

@Allie: “Variety is the Spice of Life.”

But aside from that…I posted this a while ago in the general forum (maybe not the best place for it?)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feedback-In-Combat-stealth/first

I even put a massive [Feedback] tag on it to clarify what it was. How can we provide feedback properly? Most of the time proper feedback in various sub-forums gets the once-over or completely ignored, while some completely irrelevant topics get views and whimsical responses from the Anet tags.

Hel has alot of good points there as well, in case you guys have not actually seen the video, at least pass it on to someone over there that will watch it.

I cannot stress enough how many people I know (that I played GW1 with for 8 years) cannot go near the sPvP in GW2, and would give up everything else to even just have a balanced game with GvG back….they literally cannot stand the sPvP in GW2.

GW1 has:
-TA (Team Arenas: TDM with player-made teams) 4v4 http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Team_Arenas
-RA (TDM with randomly selected teams) 4v4 http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Random_Arenas
-GvG – Guild v Guild (Competetive format with maps decided by the lower ranking team’s current Guild Hall, singular objective to kill enemy guild lord, secondary objective to control flag stand for party-wide boosts and resurrection signet recharge) 8v8 – pre-mades only http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_vs_guild
-HA – Heroes Ascent (Progressive PvP mode consisting of a large quantity of maps with multiple objectives leading to a King of the Hill style elimination) 8v8 – 6v6 http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Heroes_Ascent
-HB (conquest style pvp mode with player controlled AI) 1v1 (note: not overly successful) http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hero_Battle
-Codex Arena (“set deck” skill system limiting players builds and variety) 4v4 (note: not overly successful) http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Codex_Arena
-FA – Fort Aspenwood (Capture and Assault/Defense game-mode where 1 side must break through 3 sets of defenses and kill a guarded NPC while the other defends…almost MOBA-esque) 8v8 (Attack/Defend determined by outpost entered from) http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Fort_aspenwood
-JQ – Jade Quarry (Capture point style where a team gains points by having an NPC travel from a controlled node to their home base successfully) 8v8 (side determined by outpost entered from) http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jade_Quarry
-AB (Large scale, 7 Capture points with increasing or decreasing difficulty depending on side/map with 5 maps total) 12v12 (3 teams of 4) http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Alliance_battle

GW2 has:
-Conquest (Small scale maps, 3 capture point [no variation between maps/always 3 points], varying secondary objectives based on map) 5v5-10v10

I have been playing pvp since beta here, i played every classes and i keep experimenting new builds and new playstyles, and the more i try the more i get confident on which things are not working good in this game.
Considering that we cannot suggest to drastically change core mechanics of the game we must contain our suggestions to something that can be easily implemented.

About game modes
Conquest mode resulted by Devs testing as the best mode for esports….. ok but i gotta agree with Helseth here, dont think straight forward to Esport, try first to build a good game. Conquest might actually have some good points on its own, but it isnt easy to follow cause it mostly forces the teams to split.
An alternative is needed, moslty are calling for a deathmatch mode. About this i would say that just a round room where to jump in with the 2 teams isnt just enough.
It would be quite dull in my opinion, a primary objective other than just killing or a secondary mechaning makes the match more dynamic.
A team deathmatch should have some moments of great supsence if wanna make the viewers grow. For example having an artifact (or more) to commune with inside the arena, which can provide a turn of the events if activated.
The commune time shouldnt be too long, it should be possible to commune with it during the fight with some coordinate CC on the enemy team; something that might happen the casters to shout "he is communing with the artifact…the guardian is pushing them back, while the warr stunlocking them with his hammer, almost done communing……. wooo he got interrupted at last ! " etc…
But this kind of teamfights has its requirements in advance…

About teamfights
They should be the core of any competitive team game, but here there are some troubles with it (as already stated many times):

1) visually messy: lot of stuff going on on the screen, but this we could say, its part of the game get better dealing with it…

2) not enough space for support play: I have already spent tons of words on this matter…. here you wont target allies to directly heal them, combat is much faster, so there are area support spell…ok, and they have close range (moslty 600) fine, so a team trying to support each other has to stay all in a 600 range…. and here we get to problem 3…

3) so many AoE….. Its incredible how most of the hitting skills has effect in an area…. god, even auto attacks often hits more targets. This is really wrong imo cause really reduce the skillful play.
The main concept of AoE skills (at least how i see them) was that they are something really strong cause they can hit everyong in the range, and they were usually treated like a precious tool to be used wisely at the right time cause usually it brings some good area damage or some strong CC, in turn for this they had long CDs and/or long casting times, and usually some evident animation.
Elementalist is the only class that still brings a shadow of this idea, think to Meteor shower or Churning earth….. THATS how AoE should be imo… you dont need casting bars to notice that an ele is casting churning earth.

If i kill someone it has to be cause i worked on the kill, applying pressure on the target or bursting him down with some coordinated CC, not cause my random attacks randomly hit someone that previously was randomly hit by 2 attacks of my teammates…. maybe noone of the 3 of us even cared about him yet he got downed …..
This is what should be avoided.

Going back to point (2), with this situation its hardly possible to ever think about effectively supporting each other by staying in 600 range, since the amount of dmg (even unwanted) is coming from every single attack.

4) About conditions I started to believe that condition damage stat was wrong in first place, but it would be too much a drastic change to even mention it, so lets just say that they are a problem related to point (3), they can be AoE spammed too much.

So we can conclude that most of the problems with the game are related to the high amount of area damage, that does not require any coordination actually, the amount of playing skills that require a burst made by warr stun + anyone’s immobilize + thief backstab is really much more than engi spamming grenades + necro spamming marks + anyone spamming on the point; this kind of play has way less skill involved yet is more rewarding o.o

Allie Murdock.8152:

Volrath.1473:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Firstly, we have no qualm or rivalry with Helseth.

That aside, I have some questions, and would like to address some other points made.

1. What exactly do you mean by allocating resources to eSports?
2. What exactly is your definition of fun? Fun is subjective, no?

While we definitely appreciate it when players are vocal and provide feedback, excessive hyperbole does not help us to understand the fundamental issue.

Some more points:
1. The current meta is not controlled by the PvP team. Yes, we monitor it closely as balance greatly affects PvP. However, no resources are being taken away from PvP development in order to do balance. So I’d like to just squash that misconception now.

2. Skill effect clutter – another thing not controlled by the PvP team. Another thing that we monitor and provide feedback to the teams that do control it.

3. Sending out in-game mail is not as easy as it sounds. Keep in mind that every message that is sent has to be edited and localized.

• This is, however, something we recognize as an area to be improved. We are investigating ways to provide in-game messaging for events.

4. Lastly, I want to thank you for promoting the guildwars2pvptv channel. I always see a few people on the team with the stream always going on their 2nd/3rd monitors. Once PAX has past, we’ll be looking to better promote streamers from all areas of the game. So keep it up!!

ok so basically everything that is wrong with the game is not your fault. There is nothing at all under “control” you simply “monitor” thats cute!

I guess it is ours then! this meta is the worse EVER and i believe we all agree on that but it is ofc the players fault for playing the extremely OP professions that YOU made.

This is the excessive hyperbole that I mentioned in my post. You have every right to complain, but we can’t really understand your problem unless you actually provide some constructive feedback.

Being passionate about Gw2 PvP in any form is not ‘hyperbole’. Sorry the people at Anet don’t share the passion most tPvP players have on a game that has the ability to be superior in the gaming world. Get it together. Anet needs to start listening to their supporters instead of being sarcastic and super sensitive and defensive on their mistakes.

Inverted.7439:

Wow, i’m shocked. I disagree with so much of what helseth has said in this weeks rant… And i’m the one that posted his first rank on the forums. He’s just stabbing Anet repeatedly and uselessly. It doesn’t take a genius mind to figure out why Anet isn’t completely changing the meta right before PAX. You could say something like “just tweak down necro’s/spirit rangers” But if they did something like that, that could be the tipping point to make other classes viable. COMPLETELY changing the meta and the PAX teams would have what? 2 weeks to practice with a meta that is brand new? No that would just simply be stupid.

You must not understand a thing he said then, everything he said was correct. And he’s not “just stabbing Anet repeatedly” and if he was they deserve it. Just tweaking down necro/ranger won’t do jack… the game has so many fundamental problems that will prevent it from ever being a really good pvp game unless Anet pulls their head out of their… the sand and actually fixes it, because so far it’s like they don’t even see the problems that most of us have seen since release.

While reading the arenajunkie forums one day I found a wonderful quote that summarizes the current state of gw2 pvp:

“GW2 PvP is essentially a bunch of people fighting in a small circle spamming all of their skills. There is some teamwork involved in there somewhere but it is incredibly shallow compared to GW1 or WoW.”

Most people probably don’t want to hear this but this is true and is a great short description of the game.

Matty.1953:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, bigger patches don’t always equal better.

So I guess you guys learnt that one the hard way huh. I’m sorry but I really don’t appreciate you patronising everyone with questions like “what is fun?”. Helseth’s claims may often seem outlandish, but what he is describing is how he feels,and the truth is that these sentiments are shared with a huge population of pvpers. This is how we feel, you can’t just dismiss this or label it as subjective without alienating a lot of people.

You say you want constructive criticism. Well, I personally would like to see a LOT more transparency. I’ve noticed the player interaction has really dwindled in the spvp forum as of late, with pretty much every post that mentions balance being completely ignored. You say there are reasons other than PAX that stop you from pushing balance changes, yet you fail to enlighten us — are we not entitled to understand why you are leaving the game in a sorry state for an extended period of time?

Also, please don’t lash out at players in this thread saying that if they don’t give you info you can’t do anything about it; this information is in abundance in the spvp forum. There are extensive notes and suggestions and it feels like they’re being ignored. I’m explicitly stating that this is what it feels like before you start an argument.

The players in the pvp scene are understandably angry and this is reflected in their posts. You, however, have no right to be so rude.

I don’t even like you and this is 100% correct. She is so rude for a so call professional.

Aza.2105:

While reading the arenajunkie forums one day I found a wonderful quote that summarizes the current state of gw2 pvp:

“GW2 PvP is essentially a bunch of people fighting in a small circle spamming all of their skills. There is some teamwork involved in there somewhere but it is incredibly shallow compared to GW1 or WoW.”

Most people probably don’t want to hear this but this is true and is a great short description of the game.

In the last patch in WoW , they reduced dramatically all healing all over the board , while in the newest( still in beta) they increased dramatically the dps and each person (with pvp gear) can reduce all damage taken by 75% .

All companies (even in 2014 games) are such a sheeps that will forget the trinity era ?

Allie, these suggestions are directed to thosei interested in pvp matters.

I will begin by sayinig that it’s worthwhile to mention the pros and cons of gw2 pvp. First, there are several pros to the game mode that are worth mentioning. Everyone loves to focus on need for improvement, but this game is doing things right.

Pros
-Skillcap is equal among players. Good players are good, bad players are bad. It is as simple as that. I haven’t plaeyed any other games where the skill of each character can so greatly impact the end result.

-No grinding necessary, Some may this is a con, but I say it is a pro. If I want to play pvp, I don’t have to waste time getting to 80, I can simply play pvp.

-Teamwork – This game is all about teamwork in a good tpvp or spvp match. It’s the teams that win the fights, or are the most clever players that will always win.

-Game Visuals and Classes – This game is beautiful and so are the classes. I sincerely believe they were made well with diverse abilities in mind.

Now, it is worth mentioning the problems with the game and how they can be solved.

Cons

-Game types – Why is this a problem? Well, for one, people’s opinions are subjective. Some people like team play others love pummeling each other 1v1. Even so, some prefer another game mode. With more options, we will get more pvp players. Suggested game types: Capture the flag, King of the Hill(I personally love this mode with friends in Halo), Deathmatch, team deathmatch in an arena with 2v2, and 3v3. Even by simply adding team deathmatch, we could get a significantly larger number of players enjoying and playing pvp.

-Build Diversity – Guardians are stuck as bunkers, necros as condi spammers, and so on and so on. This one is really only a problem because of the game modes available. If we had many modes, people would get creative about different builds that fit each mode. With 3 people, its a completely different dynamic then with 5 or 2 or 1 person. Not to mention, the setting as a huge impact, like suddenly falling of the map.

-Rewards – Again, the diversity in pvp rewards is limited, but if we added more game modes, we could have diverse rewards based on each mode. Or certain rewards only obtained by deathmatch or king of the hill. Lets say you make a deathmatch ring, then create a reward tournament with skins and titles only available to that style of play. This would be a great way to expand pvp so much.

-Gold in PVP – This is a huge problem in pvp. There is no way to make gold to buy things in the gem store. There are several ways to solve this problem. 1. I suggest making pvp currency transferable to gold based on the apropriate amount. Or 2. Making the current pvp currency transferable into gems. Or 3. Coming up with gold rewards within pvp. I suppose this would be the cheapest method for you guys. Since, you do need to make money in some fashion.

-Skillcap – My last issues with the current game is the skillcap required to win. At this time, conquest is probably the most complicated game mode for new players to start out with. There is so much to learn and so much to get used too. By making more game-modes, not only would you provide an easier skillcap, but make it more fun for new players who are getting scared away by the complicated nature of conquest.

All-in-all, I love this game with a passion. I play it nearly everyday. I really want to see it grow and become even more popular. I hope you take my considerations to heart. Thank you and good luck.

Matty.1953:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, bigger patches don’t always equal better.

So I guess you guys learnt that one the hard way huh. I’m sorry but I really don’t appreciate you patronising everyone with questions like “what is fun?”. Helseth’s claims may often seem outlandish, but what he is describing is how he feels,and the truth is that these sentiments are shared with a huge population of pvpers. This is how we feel, you can’t just dismiss this or label it as subjective without alienating a lot of people.

You say you want constructive criticism. Well, I personally would like to see a LOT more transparency. I’ve noticed the player interaction has really dwindled in the spvp forum as of late, with pretty much every post that mentions balance being completely ignored. You say there are reasons other than PAX that stop you from pushing balance changes, yet you fail to enlighten us — are we not entitled to understand why you are leaving the game in a sorry state for an extended period of time?

Also, please don’t lash out at players in this thread saying that if they don’t give you info you can’t do anything about it; this information is in abundance in the spvp forum. There are extensive notes and suggestions and it feels like they’re being ignored. I’m explicitly stating that this is what it feels like before you start an argument.

The players in the pvp scene are understandably angry and this is reflected in their posts. You, however, have no right to be so rude.

Allie Murdock.8152:

(…) Chew on that! <3

GW2 is a themepark MMO. Despite the community wanting a lot of things, Arenanet really doesn’t care that much unless it’s on their agenda. They are very afraid for things that they can’t control. Let’s take one thing for example that a lot of people want. A death match/GvG environment. Many WvW guilds like GvG and many PvP players aren’t fan of conquest. In fact, many of my guild (we recruited pre-launch) left the game early on with that as main reason. Now, it’s NOT that hard to satisfy these players but Arenanet refuses to. First of all, all these players will split up. Less serious guilds in WvW and the currently still small (imo) sPvP community will also split. I get it, but do you rather have that people leave the game?

Btw, how hard can it be?

Add a few new maps without conquest points. Simple maps with a few hills and chokepoints of course. Let a round end when all enemies on one side are dead. (Can be an arena host option)

Give Arena hoster the ability to choose teamsize (5v5 for death match and 20v20 for GvG or just death match madness, haha!). Maybe a way for Arena hosters to toggle food buffs as well?

Work with multiple rounds. It’s obvious that the game is not built for long battles like in GW1. This is NOT a problem! Looking at the GvG Meta, there truly are guilds out there that can clash/fight for more than 5 minutes because of healing fields, banner usage and such. It’s quite amazing. But sure, most fights will take a short time. Like i said, work with rounds! Best of 5? It works for the GvG community!

So what IS the problem? I’m starting to understand it’s pure business. Arenanet wants to control exactly how this game is and what type of game modes are present. They like the GvG idea but there are still kittening boars in the area, rallying people accidentally and the new orb (while im excited about it) might ruin GvG even more. How hard can it be to just remove the kittening boars? Seriously, iteration right?? right?

This MMO is a themepark. Don’t expect much freedom. That way, you won’t be dissapointed! That’s what i have learned this past year.

Oh, i love this game. I’m just being critical, that’s all.

I don’t find pvp fun because I don’t get to use the same gear I do in pve/wvw.