Guild Wars 2

Right now, from Amber to Ruby it’s just a grind fest, you grind enough you will get to Ruby. Ruby is where skill get involved. Anet need to remove the lock division system, from amber to emerad, that’s one lock, from emerald to sapphire is another lock, from sapphire to ruby is also another lock. You can’t mix grind players with players who actually know what they’re doing.
Make it so you can lose tier and pip at every division

well I’m trying but cant get out of emerald so I don’t think I can “grind” my way out
also am an average player who knows a little of what he is doing – still stuck despite trying to solo and team up
agree that ruby is where the players who know what they are doing are and more skilled – but I will never see that despite trying and wanting to improve as hard as I can – am stuck

I can’t agree with OP.
Also, if you stuck in amber/emerald/sapphire it doesn’t mean that you belong there.
If you win/lose/win/lose/win/lose etc… then something is a bit wrong though sometimes we might think that this is where we belong.

I had my fair share of matches up until second tier of ruby. Before I had quite even matches, won and lost but made it with premades and solo que which was hard (you can’t call “grind” on everything that is about progress). Now I can’t move past tier two no matter what. I did solo in the morning, afternoon and evening. Done premades with my guild that is really good at pvp but well… MMR wished for us to fail with giving us stronger teams but hey! This is how pvp works… you lose to those who are stronger, nothing bad with that if you learn from those experiences and try to improve and exceed at some point.

I disagree. I meet baddies in ruby too. Granted a lot less, but still. And sometimes i get matched vs teams of baddies resulting in 500:50 blowouts without breaking a sweat.

Plus, I don’t see what’s so wrong with grinding. Grinding makes you play games. Playing games makes you a better player. If someone grinded 200 games to get to ruby then this person is better from where they started.

What I see wrong with the current matchmaking is that it matches people with probably bad mmr (mine) with completely oblivious people. I carried baddies throughout amber and emerald and most of sapphire. Which resulted in me being stuck in sapphire for over a week.

Anet should consider looking at numbers of matches played. I mean … some of the people I was matched with were terrible. They were riding the condimancer bandwagon and it gave them wins.

Balance is terrible and cheesy builds get good players killed.

Rodzynald.5897:

I can’t agree with OP.
Also, if you stuck in amber/emerald/sapphire it doesn’t mean that you belong there.
If you win/lose/win/lose/win/lose etc… then something is a bit wrong though sometimes we might think that this is where we belong.

I had my fair share of matches up until second tier of ruby. Before I had quite even matches, won and lost but made it with premades and solo que which was hard (you can’t call “grind” on everything that is about progress). Now I can’t move past tier two no matter what. I did solo in the morning, afternoon and evening. Done premades with my guild that is really good at pvp but well… MMR wished for us to fail with giving us stronger teams but hey! This is how pvp works… you lose to those who are stronger, nothing bad with that if you learn from those experiences and try to improve and exceed at some point.

well am doing lot of learning and definitely trying to improve myself but cant help the team members I have around me

I made a thread about how to improve current league system, i don’t think that making players lose tiers if they lose is enough and can go very wrong given current matchmaking system.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Suggestion-Matchmaking-Leagues/first#post6036663

geekilo.8512:

Right now, from Amber to Ruby it’s just a grind fest, you grind enough you will get to Ruby. Ruby is where skill get involved. Anet need to remove the lock division system, from amber to emerad, that’s one lock, from emerald to sapphire is another lock, from sapphire to ruby is also another lock. You can’t mix grind players with players who actually know what they’re doing.
Make it so you can lose tier and pip at every division

Do that and watch how many people stop playing the league. It will be dead in days. This season is practically dead now. ANet have had to increase the pip range so people can get matches. I was a T4 0 pip sapphire playing ruby’s. Yeah that’s fair right? The problem with the league is not the divisions, but the match making system. You can start a match and look at the team comp and know which side the system wants to win. The system will not always get its way, but a vast majority of the time it dose. When a match loads I can look at the team comps and I can tell.just by looking at the classes on the teams which team is going to win. I’ve been wrong 3 times so far. The rest have gone just as I predicted. Being able to drop divisions will not fix anything. Just kill PvP faster. And if you really want to play PvP that matters, PvP in GW2. Is not the place, get a team and try your hand at the ESL. That’s where it really matters not some in game broken ranked system.

The problem with pvp now is the excessive punishment. I’ve seen 30 loss streaks. If you increase the punishment by dropping divisions, it becomes worse.

I don’t think there would be enough players left to support the next season. This system doesn’t reward skill. It favors one group of players over another.

Truthfully, a grind based system is the better option. It will preserve the player base and along the way people will get better.

Ithilwen.1529:

The problem with pvp now is the excessive punishment. I’ve seen 30 loss streaks. If you increase the punishment by dropping divisions, it becomes worse.

I don’t think there would be enough players left to support the next season. This system doesn’t reward skill. It favors one group of players over another.

Truthfully, a grind based system is the better option. It will preserve the player base and along the way people will get better.

You have 30 losses in large part because of how the MM work. If they stop manufacturing team the way they do now so no one get an inherent advantage/disadvantage you won’t start loosing all the time until you have reach your limit.

But that being said, you are right that a grind based game might be far better if ANET goal was to attract pve players to pvp rather than do some elitist event. I don’t like that but logically speaking it make more sense considering the goal.

Ithilwen.1529:

The problem with pvp now is the excessive punishment. I’ve seen 30 loss streaks. If you increase the punishment by dropping divisions, it becomes worse.

I don’t think there would be enough players left to support the next season. This system doesn’t reward skill. It favors one group of players over another.

Truthfully, a grind based system is the better option. It will preserve the player base and along the way people will get better.

If they lose 30 games, well don’t you think it might be the match-making problem or personally skill issue? I’m in Ruby right, i see so many Primordial Legends that just stand still and hit with their AA, no kiting, not even try to dodge, they are obviously not supposed to be in Ruby. At the same, i know couple of decently skilled player who just stuck in Emerald and Sapphire.

Since I am the “they” you refer to, I’ll reply to that.

No, I am by no means a top player. However, in my fourth year in the game, I have gained some skills.

Be that as it may, I’m breaking my kitten, putting in full time work hours trying to advance. I deserve to be rewarded for it.

My other point still stands, the excessive punishment is driving players away. I’m an avowed masochist and I’m approaching my limits. If divisions could be lost, I sincerely believe that the tournament would collapse for lack of interest.

A place exists for the elite. It is the regular tournaments and the esl league. A place also needs to exist for those players, like myself, who want to compete but are not equipped to play at pro level.

geekilo.8512:

Right now, from Amber to Ruby it’s just a grind fest, you grind enough you will get to Ruby. Ruby is where skill get involved. Anet need to remove the lock division system, from amber to emerad, that’s one lock, from emerald to sapphire is another lock, from sapphire to ruby is also another lock. You can’t mix grind players with players who actually know what they’re doing.
Make it so you can lose tier and pip at every division

This is the best suggestion so far.

BUT.

Only make it so if they fix matchmaking.

Otherwise this will be like Ruby Hell in Amber.

I don’t agree. Not losing pips is the only reason I’m not still stuck in t1 Amber. The reality is that losing divisions would alienate many players. Fewer players means worse matches. In turn that drives player exodus from pvp. What is being proposed will result in a death spiral.

The current system does not reward skilled play. It heavily favors one side in nearly every match. Winning “gimmie” matches doesn’t mean much in my book.

Allow loss of pips and divisions throughout, and you will destroy the tournament in my opinion. A few would be pleased by the change, but they might well find they are the only ones left.

Ithilwen.1529:

I don’t agree. Not losing pips is the only reason I’m not still stuck in t1 Amber. The reality is that losing divisions would alienate many players. Fewer players means worse matches. In turn that drives player exodus from pvp. What is being proposed will result in a death spiral.

The current system does not reward skilled play. It heavily favors one side in nearly every match. Winning “gimmie” matches doesn’t mean much in my book.

Allow loss of pips and divisions throughout, and you will destroy the tournament in my opinion. A few would be pleased by the change, but they might well find they are the only ones left.

I am typically on 8 PM PST, let’s duo, i’ll help you get out of amber.

@Ithilwen
You make it sound GW2 pvp league tournament is exciting,
I agree with you that if you put time into improve yourself, you should get some sort of reward. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with League of Legends ranking system, it goes from bronze>silver>gold>platinum>diamond>master, you need 100 points for each tier and 5 wins streaks to go to the next divion, and u can go from bronze to master and drop from master to bronze. The reason why people don’t drop from master to bronze is because there’s skill involved.
In Gw2, from amber to ruby, there is no skill involved, it’s just a grind fest. Giving enough time, those amber players will grind themselves to ruby, then ruby will just turn into amber.

Nope the problem is there is no F’N matchmaker. from what iv seen and seen on the form’s is that if you lose more then win at all it can be a number of factor’s from bad teammates too maybe just plain messing up or whatever float’s your boat your MMR goes down and for the winners well it goes up.

what the matchmaker is doing is pairing you with players of similar MMR but the useless matchmaker dose not make you fight a team of similar MMR, so if you start haveing badluck I.E loseing maybe 15+ your kittened for a good long time

plus new players have a base middle range MMR so if mine waz there and and i waz a decent player but got the FN luck of those kids in my team and lose game’s (kinda like playing the lottery) im just going too eat it over this.

once your in this hole GFL, GG Anet well played i F’N hate you, people want a Matchmaker that give’s them fun games with people with similar skill both sides not this lottery train that just ends in 80% of the people trying and quitting after 2 weeks because they’er MMR hit the floor and see players that cant even kill a paper bag,
then people wonder why im so salty

i seen this day 3 the fact that its unforgiving and that i got snowballed by premade’s day 1 too just get F’N owned by a MatchMaker that dose a garbo job, wow GG Anet a F’N monkey can do your F’N job at this point

PVP Matchmaker needs 3 things too make this work

1# Team/solo ranked ques, i don’t give a F’N care what other people say, Fact

2# MMR based pvp, Pips are kittening useless never wanted them, that mean’s (me the player’s will have teammates with similar MMR) and (me and my team will play team’s with similar MMR)

IE (1000 team MMR= 5 players at 200 base MMR) not (1000 team MMR = 1 player with 300, 2 with 200, and 2 with 100 or some garbo like that and it need’s too make it fight even MMR team’s

3# how MMR is scored (not just based of win/lose) IE high damage, kill’s, death’s, cap’s, damage tanked vs death’s, top stat’s award’s ECT

sure takes a little too balance out but like many have said you can always make people do a qualifier

FACT’S get over it Anet or fail

@Stickerhappy.8052

/curtsey

(Without a trace of sarcasm) I am honored by your gracious offer, Sir. Full well do I know that you are among the most skilled Mesmers.

I was not sufficiently clear; I am currently Sapphire T2. That measure of success, I attribute to sheer persistence. Prior to this tournament, I was successful in nigh 50% of my matches. I haven’t the heart to calculate it now.. but it is mayhap, 20% after the flogging I’ve received in the tournament.

@geekilo.8512

I understand that by allowing division drops, you believe players will fall into there natural skill brackets. This would create better matches for all.

That logic, however, is flawed in my view. Because of the extreme matchmaking, players are grouping and using stacks of specific classes.

By doing so, they are carried above there natural skill bracket. This would be even more true if divisions were permitted to drop. I believe that it was at least partly anet’s intent to force players to group in this way.

Because players are carried above natural skill, by builds and by groups, the match quality is likely to be poor throughout all divisions. That is born out by what I’ve read in the forums.

In my opinion there are two realistic solutions; The first would be to require everyone to solo queue and implement anti syncing measures. The second would be to make the wings a reward track. By doing so, anet would offer an alternative path for players, like myself, who don’t wish to compete at pro level.

I enjoy competing, my heart beats faster as I jump out of the gate and run for mid. There needs to be a reasonable chance that I can win though.

godsie.2864:

well I’m trying but cant get out of emerald so I don’t think I can “grind” my way out
also am an average player who knows a little of what he is doing – still stuck despite trying to solo and team up
agree that ruby is where the players who know what they are doing are and more skilled – but I will never see that despite trying and wanting to improve as hard as I can – am stuck

I highly recommend watching pro player’s streams/vids of those that play your class and watch how they rotate, what skills they combo, the people they tend to fight, etc.

The only way to get better is by emulating those that already are.

Anomaly.7612:

godsie.2864:

well I’m trying but cant

I highly recommend watching pro player’s streams/vids of those that play your class and watch how they rotate, what skills they combo, the people they tend to fight, etc.

The only way to get better is by emulating those that already are.

I have watched lots of the pro videos online already in preparation
cant do any more than keep trying and hoping one day….

geekilo.8512:

In Gw2, from amber to ruby, there is no skill involved, it’s just a grind fest. Giving enough time, those amber players will grind themselves to ruby, then ruby will just turn into amber.

I couldn’t agree more. I don’t really understand why they bother making a ladder system to “test” your abilities…..Only to safe lock the first half of divisions? Might as well be “Get 100 overall wins and get a gold star!!!”

I know all to well though the reason to the safelock is because of those silly wings >_>

godsie.2864:

Anomaly.7612:

godsie.2864:

well I’m trying but cant

I highly recommend watching pro player’s streams/vids of those that play your class and watch how they rotate, what skills they combo, the people they tend to fight, etc.

The only way to get better is by emulating those that already are.

I have watched lots of the pro videos online already in preparation
cant do any more than keep trying and hoping one day….

A LOT of this game is watching rotations and being mindful of where your team is at, where the other team is at, and what’s going on with the map like, buffs/lord/beasts/etc. Also being mindful of how many enemies are alive and where they’re at. How many are rezzing, and when they rez, they’re probably going to try and take home/far, so someone should be back capping/watching. That kind of stuff can help you to carry matches in the division you’re in.

Also, playing a class that can carry well is good too. Mesmers and Revs are the best at it right now. Mez because of ports and Moa. Rev because they’re just so self sufficient, but die to condi really easily. I’ve been playing Rev and enjoy it, but I also really like playing Mez as the ports/clones are just so much fun. Mez is much harder to play than Rev, though.

Anomaly.7612:

godsie.2864:

Anomaly.7612:

godsie.2864:

well I’m trying but cant

I highly recommend watching pro player’s streams/vids of those that play your class and watch how they rotate, what skills they combo, the people they tend to fight, etc.

The only way to get better is by emulating those that already are.

I have watched lots of the pro videos online already in preparation
cant do any more than keep trying and hoping one day….

A LOT of this game is watching rotations and being mindful of where your team is at, where the other team is at, and what’s going on with the map like, buffs/lord/beasts/etc. Also being mindful of how many enemies are alive and where they’re at. How many are rezzing, and when they rez, they’re probably going to try and take home/far, so someone should be back capping/watching. That kind of stuff can help you to carry matches in the division you’re in.

Also, playing a class that can carry well is good too. Mesmers and Revs are the best at it right now. Mez because of ports and Moa. Rev because they’re just so self sufficient, but die to condi really easily. I’ve been playing Rev and enjoy it, but I also really like playing Mez as the ports/clones are just so much fun. Mez is much harder to play than Rev, though.

I have tried multi classes such as revnant and Mesmer believe me I am trying my hardest and know map awareness and everything you mention.. I dont have the skill as yet to carry 4 others .. and probably never will. There is nothing more to do than pray and keep trying…

Anomaly.7612:

godsie.2864:

Anomaly.7612:

godsie.2864:

well I’m trying but cant

I highly recommend watching pro player’s streams/vids of those that play your class and watch how they rotate, what skills they combo, the people they tend to fight, etc.

The only way to get better is by emulating those that already are.

I have watched lots of the pro videos online already in preparation
cant do any more than keep trying and hoping one day….

A LOT of this game is watching rotations and being mindful of where your team is at, where the other team is at, and what’s going on with the map like, buffs/lord/beasts/etc. Also being mindful of how many enemies are alive and where they’re at. How many are rezzing, and when they rez, they’re probably going to try and take home/far, so someone should be back capping/watching. That kind of stuff can help you to carry matches in the division you’re in.

Also, playing a class that can carry well is good too. Mesmers and Revs are the best at it right now. Mez because of ports and Moa. Rev because they’re just so self sufficient, but die to condi really easily. I’ve been playing Rev and enjoy it, but I also really like playing Mez as the ports/clones are just so much fun. Mez is much harder to play than Rev, though.

Im dying right now, did u just compare mes to be as good as rev ? the only reason mes is still somewhat viable is because of portal and moa. Mes is underpower compared to rev.

geekilo.8512:

Make it so you can lose tier and pip at every division

I agree with you. I just want to have some starting playground for new players. Therefore, I would keep div 1-3. However, I would suggest adding a division 6 (and maybe 7) before legendary where you can lose pip and tier. Thats where the knowledgable players are. When the season gets reset, I would suggest that div. 5 starts in div 2 next season, division 6+7 in div. 3 and legendary in division 4.

The mmr-system can then be abolished. The league is the only ranking.

The divisions are locked because the stomping and exploitation would otherwise keep many players in Amber. Those players very likely wouldn’t come back.

It’s all well and good to have a psuedo objectivist attitude ( ala’ Ayn Rand.) But it’s not going to work in actual practice.

Ithilwen.1529:

The divisions are locked because the stomping and exploitation would otherwise keep many players in Amber. Those players very likely wouldn’t come back.

It’s all well and good to have a psuedo objectivist attitude ( ala’ Ayn Rand.) But it’s not going to work in actual practice.

uh huh….so instead they get stomped in ruby just for the sake of preventing the notation that they aren’t as good of a player as they think they are. Only then to complain how “match making flaws” are the reason they can’t progress further.

Ithilwen.1529:

The divisions are locked because the stomping and exploitation would otherwise keep many players in Amber. Those players very likely wouldn’t come back.

It’s all well and good to have a psuedo objectivist attitude ( ala’ Ayn Rand.) But it’s not going to work in actual practice.

Stomping and exploitation? I know there are exploitation back in S1 but i havnt heard any from S2, and how do you know it’s not going work in actual practice?

johnyboy.3614:

Nope the problem is there is no F’N matchmaker. from what iv seen and seen on the form’s is that if you lose more then win at all it can be a number of factor’s from bad teammates too maybe just plain messing up or whatever float’s your boat your MMR goes down and for the winners well it goes up.

what the matchmaker is doing is pairing you with players of similar MMR but the useless matchmaker dose not make you fight a team of similar MMR, so if you start haveing badluck I.E loseing maybe 15+ your kittened for a good long time

plus new players have a base middle range MMR so if mine waz there and and i waz a decent player but got the FN luck of those kids in my team and lose game’s (kinda like playing the lottery) im just going too eat it over this.

once your in this hole GFL, GG Anet well played i F’N hate you, people want a Matchmaker that give’s them fun games with people with similar skill both sides not this lottery train that just ends in 80% of the people trying and quitting after 2 weeks because they’er MMR hit the floor and see players that cant even kill a paper bag,
then people wonder why im so salty

i seen this day 3 the fact that its unforgiving and that i got snowballed by premade’s day 1 too just get F’N owned by a MatchMaker that dose a garbo job, wow GG Anet a F’N monkey can do your F’N job at this point

PVP Matchmaker needs 3 things too make this work

1# Team/solo ranked ques, i don’t give a F’N care what other people say, Fact

2# MMR based pvp, Pips are kittening useless never wanted them, that mean’s (me the player’s will have teammates with similar MMR) and (me and my team will play team’s with similar MMR)

IE (1000 team MMR= 5 players at 200 base MMR) not (1000 team MMR = 1 player with 300, 2 with 200, and 2 with 100 or some garbo like that and it need’s too make it fight even MMR team’s

3# how MMR is scored (not just based of win/lose) IE high damage, kill’s, death’s, cap’s, damage tanked vs death’s, top stat’s award’s ECT

sure takes a little too balance out but like many have said you can always make people do a qualifier

FACT’S get over it Anet or fail

This. So. Much. This.
Why did they even start with such a pip-based league.
Leave the MMR as it was, assign leagues to MMR range, done.

I could whine and rage and I am admittedly salty, but this season is just really, REALLY frustrating. And I am speaking as someone with three years and around 4k matches experience.

At least I hope to learn something about myself, as I am still playing a game I don’t enjoy anymore and I have yet to figure out why.
Maybe its emotional ties after investing so much time in it for about three years.

Then again, maybe they canned Colin as they are aware of the downward spiral they are in and he had to take his hat for that.

Matisse.9356:

johnyboy.3614:

Nope the problem is there is no F’N matchmaker. from what iv seen and seen on the form’s is that if you lose more then win at all it can be a number of factor’s from bad teammates too maybe just plain messing up or whatever float’s your boat your MMR goes down and for the winners well it goes up.

what the matchmaker is doing is pairing you with players of similar MMR but the useless matchmaker dose not make you fight a team of similar MMR, so if you start haveing badluck I.E loseing maybe 15+ your kittened for a good long time

plus new players have a base middle range MMR so if mine waz there and and i waz a decent player but got the FN luck of those kids in my team and lose game’s (kinda like playing the lottery) im just going too eat it over this.

once your in this hole GFL, GG Anet well played i F’N hate you, people want a Matchmaker that give’s them fun games with people with similar skill both sides not this lottery train that just ends in 80% of the people trying and quitting after 2 weeks because they’er MMR hit the floor and see players that cant even kill a paper bag,
then people wonder why im so salty

i seen this day 3 the fact that its unforgiving and that i got snowballed by premade’s day 1 too just get F’N owned by a MatchMaker that dose a garbo job, wow GG Anet a F’N monkey can do your F’N job at this point

PVP Matchmaker needs 3 things too make this work

1# Team/solo ranked ques, i don’t give a F’N care what other people say, Fact

2# MMR based pvp, Pips are kittening useless never wanted them, that mean’s (me the player’s will have teammates with similar MMR) and (me and my team will play team’s with similar MMR)

IE (1000 team MMR= 5 players at 200 base MMR) not (1000 team MMR = 1 player with 300, 2 with 200, and 2 with 100 or some garbo like that and it need’s too make it fight even MMR team’s

3# how MMR is scored (not just based of win/lose) IE high damage, kill’s, death’s, cap’s, damage tanked vs death’s, top stat’s award’s ECT

sure takes a little too balance out but like many have said you can always make people do a qualifier

FACT’S get over it Anet or fail

This. So. Much. This.
Why did they even start with such a pip-based league.
Leave the MMR as it was, assign leagues to MMR range, done.

I could whine and rage and I am admittedly salty, but this season is just really, REALLY frustrating. And I am speaking as someone with three years and around 4k matches experience.

At least I hope to learn something about myself, as I am still playing a game I don’t enjoy anymore and I have yet to figure out why.
Maybe its emotional ties after investing so much time in it for about three years.

Then again, maybe they canned Colin as they are aware of the downward spiral they are in and he had to take his hat for that.

I feel you, my brother. I have around 6k games, i invest alot of my time in mesmer. When mesmer was OP in s1, i didn’t bother to play it cuz it’s bunker and it’s boring. Now in S2, i feel like if i’m not playing reaper, rev, scrapper, or ele, it seem like i can’t win. I feel betrayed, i invested so much time in my mesmer but yet it just doesn’t pay off….