Guild Wars 2

Phantaram mentioned that, while playing the demo, 90% of the teleport spots no longer work. Not only will this hurt thief mobility, but thief escape mechanics as well. If this is true, I believe that this will be the tipping point for thief in the meta. The risk will no longer be worth the reward.

Vertical range teleport you mean? That’s always been a stupidly strong advantage that a teleport class had against a class that couldn’t even teleport to begin with.

I’m glad they’re fixing this crap if what you’re saying is what I think it is.

It isn’t “high skill cap” either, all you do is memorize the blink spot and call it skill. And I don’t think Thief will be the only class to be hurt by this, Ele will be too (good riddance).

Good, Now revert the IR change.

I’m kinda happy they are fixing some of the ridiculous teleport spots. Some of them didn’t make sense.

Let’s call a spade a spade. Many of them were bugs.

finally they decide to fix this clearly unfair advantage in a competitive game.

gg

Highlie.7641:

Good, Now revert the IR change.

Won’t happen. This will just go down as another blow to thief survivability. Not everyone wants to play S/D and spam dodge.

They should have been fixed ages ago. I remember when the meta was really bunkery and being bored out of my mind watching the stream and saw a thief teleport to a place he had no bidness teleporting to and thinking, “Wow, there are ArenaNet devs watching this stream because I see them chatting…this garbage will for sure get nerfed because the players are EXPLOITING this on a live stream in a tournament”

That was months ago. It should have been fixed immediately. People get banned for less and this happened in a tournament and those players were awarded money for cheating.

Super gross.

Yes, because Thieves are totally dependent on blink spots compared to some other classes whose viability is arguable at best. Rolleyes.

Yep, totally just Thieves…

Let’a discredit the classes that get punished for being at the wrong place and often use the teleports to catch a breather such as Necro and Mesmer… But Thieves will suffer ey?

Drennon.7190:

Phantaram mentioned that, while playing the demo, 90% of the teleport spots no longer work. Not only will this hurt thief mobility, but thief escape mechanics as well. If this is true, I believe that this will be the tipping point for thief in the meta. The risk will no longer be worth the reward.

Which risk are you talking about ?
If you think playing thief brings risk then it is a l2p issue

Necro has teleport to previous place, something like Mesmer’s portal. But it’s nowhere close to Shadowstep skills that Thief has.

Tao.5096:

Necro has teleport to previous place, something like Mesmer’s portal. But it’s nowhere close to Shadowstep skills that Thief has.

Spectral Walk is nice, but the port with Worm is quite the dealbreaker once you learn to set it up
I use both, so hey

I know that Thief has more vertical ports than Mesmer (Phase retreat, Blink not counting Portal) and Necromancer (Flesh Worm) – but those classes rely way more on the positioning than a Thief does… Usually, the Thief only uses these ports to either get rid of the positional advantage of a Mesmer or Necro alike, or to increase it’s capability to roam around the map… Whereas the latter will not be completely removed, and thus Thief stays in the one role it has

I don’t want to say that Thief is not touched, but I do say that there are more classes than Thief that suffer from this change if implemented, due to these classes relying on their positioning for their sustain

Shadowsteps are not teleports. Teleports allows you to reach somewhere without going through the space in between.

Shadow steps in the other hand make you move very, very fast between two spots. So they should not ignore anything that can’t be evaded or blocked like Static Field (conversely, static field should not affect someone who exists it with a mesmer portal).

Also, more things should be turned into that kind of ‘trap’. For example, Ring of Warding should also knock down someone who shadow steps in an out of it.

Since they are a very fast ‘run’ between two points, the ‘range’ of a shadow step should not be merely distance in a straight line from where you are to the target, but a line following the path you need to walk to reach the target from where you are.

If going up some stairs to a platform would take more steps than what it takes to walk to the max range of a shadow step on flat terrain, it should not be possible to get there with a shadow step, but the shadow step should not simply fail to activate. It should still work and make you shadow step, but count the distance, and stop when it runs out. As if it had a ‘fuel’ and once it runs out, it stops.

For example, in Battle of Khylo, if you aimed at the platforms around the trebuchets while being too far, so the range of the shadow step is shorter than the distance walked to that spot, instead merely failing, the shadow step should get you as far as possible in the path from where you are to the target before its ‘fuel’ runs out.

And descriptions should be more clear in skills. Blink, Lightning Flash and Necrotic traversal are NOT teleports like a mesmer portal. They also behave like shadow steps and will not ignore terrain.
But since they should not be limited in ‘fuel’ like shadow steps and teleport in a straight line like shadow steps do now, they should be called something else. For example, “Skip” or “Blink”.

So you’ll have:

• “Shadowstep”: Instantly “runs” to target until its distance ‘fuel’ runs out.
• “Blink”: Instantly moves to target as long as it’s possible to get there without jumping.
• “Teleport”: Instantly moves to destination regardless of any obstacles.

The issue is that each class has something they excel at, and for thief it’s mobility. First, take away or reduce that mobility, and compensations are needed such as increased shadow step range, reduced initiative costs, or buffs to other areas such as sustain, offense and support. Based on previous changes, when it comes to thief, there are never compensations. Second, the reason players love their classes are because of those areas they excel at, so if you enjoy thief because of the speed and mobility, you’re going to be unhappy with the changes no matter what – if any – improvements are made in return.

However, with a new class and new specialisations which of course means new traits, skills, weapons etc., a balance change is necessary. Perhaps such changes are to make way for something new and better, that would otherwise be overpowered, and to set a clear difference between something a class has and what its specialisation has.

Still, it’s hard to be optimistic when it’s a class that is constantly nerfed, and receives “improvements” that are so good that no one uses them (even after those “improvements” have been buffed a few times since their addition).

MithranArkanere.8957:

So they should not ignore anything that can’t be evaded or blocked like Static Field (conversely, static field should not affect someone who exists it with a mesmer portal).

Also, more things should be turned into that kind of ‘trap’. For example, Ring of Warding should also knock down someone who shadow steps in an out of it.

Shadow stepping in, out or through static field or ring of warding DO cause the cc affect to be applied to you.

Yeah. I know. That’s why I say “more things should be turned into that kind of ‘trap’”.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Yeah. I know. That’s why I say “more things should be turned into that kind of ‘trap’”.

Ha. A combination of your use of “should” and my skim-reading. Gg. Apologies =P.

Why am i not surprised? The only thing Anet was good at all this years is finding way to nerfs thieves (pretending it is a buff) and screw up other classes at the same time… while completely ignoring huge issues that plagued the class since launch.

Watch it, teleport/terrain bug will be still not fixed. Last refuge will still get thieves killed. Will still get hit mid of dodge/evade with 22 ms latency etc….

Oh and certanly they will make sure that engis are on the top of the food chain as always and celestial classes can collect points while drooling on keyboard because Anet apprently has 0 understanding of risk vs reward concept.

The more i look at xpac the more i want to say “eff this game”.

(????)?????

brace yourselves for the double sd meta.

This will push S/D back ahead of D/P

gg for destroying mesmer and guardians then.

Booms.2594:

gg for destroying mesmer and guardians then.

Sigh… Hopefully the specializations are worth it.

Jasher.6580:

I’m kinda happy they are fixing some of the ridiculous teleport spots. Some of them didn’t make sense.

Let’s call a spade a spade. Many of them were bugs.

Well they weren’t bugs because for a 1 month period they were actually removed from the game in pvp, and then after the month they decided to revert the change.

Basically, people stopped playing thieves in pvp when this happened.

That’s a really horrible change.

Mesmer’s rely on blink spots to peel out of fights, without that, they’re going to really have nothing to save themselves with. Thieves use it too obviously, though it’ll hurt their mobility more than their survivability.

It’s not a problem that needed to be fixed.

Lux.7169:

-snip-

I play a Mesmer, so I’m also negatively impacted by this change.

Nevertheless, I think the development team should use this as an opportunity to take a closer look at profession mechanics and balance.

I am happy they are fixing this.

I never liked the idea about porting through a lot of the areas I currently can. Even though I take advantage of it now, it feels cheesy and unsatisfying.

I took advantage of these spots to the fullest.

In b4 greatsword warrior becomes the fastest class in PvP.

glock.6590:

In b4 greatsword warrior becomes the fastest class in PvP.

Didn’t you hear? Warriors are getting a couple minor buffs next patch:

-Warriors can now dual wield great swords, great hammers and great shields
-Vengeance no longer causes the warrior to die—it is now a self res.
-Warriors can now bring 2 heals instead of just 1
-Warriors can now fly

Lux.7169:

glock.6590:

In b4 greatsword warrior becomes the fastest class in PvP.

Didn’t you hear? Warriors are getting a couple minor buffs next patch:

-Warriors can now dual wield great swords, great hammers and great shields
-Vengeance no longer causes the warrior to die—it is now a self res.
-Warriors can now bring 2 heals instead of just 1
-Warriors can now fly

lol such minor buffs.

nah, thief will probably still be the fastest point to point class

because it’s not far, all you need is burst speed.

and greatsword alone without sword is not really fast…and easily be affected by chill and cripple

They already did this and reverted it in a week…

Benjamin.7893:

They already did this and reverted it in a week…

Glad SOMEONE remembers =\

Now I know this is a stretch, but I feel like this is a hidden blow to zerker based builds. Thief and Mesmer use these teleports to survival and medi guard uses them to set up “sneak” burst.

Long live cele I guess

Drennon.7190:

Highlie.7641:

Good, Now revert the IR change.

Won’t happen. This will just go down as another blow to thief survivability. Not everyone wants to play S/D and spam dodge.

Yes but dreaming is the only thing’s we thieves have. don’t get me wrong I’m not going to be surprised when we get a useless specialization Or no ways to clear the extra conditions there adding (not that we can even keep up right now) . Funny enough But them adding that ridicules Cd promotes more 3 spam.

Cynz.9437:

Why am i not surprised? The only thing Anet was good at all this years is finding way to nerfs thieves (pretending it is a buff) and screw up other classes at the same time… while completely ignoring huge issues that plagued the class since launch.

Watch it, teleport/terrain bug will be still not fixed. Last refuge will still get thieves killed. Will still get hit mid of dodge/evade with 22 ms latency etc….

Oh and certanly they will make sure that engis are on the top of the food chain as always and celestial classes can collect points while drooling on keyboard because Anet apprently has 0 understanding of risk vs reward concept.

The more i look at xpac the more i want to say “eff this game”.

(??)???

Every thief main comes to this conclusion eventually. Isn’t it sad…
You will leave, then come back (nothing out atm) but those feelings will remain

Highlie.7641:

Every thief main comes to this conclusion eventually. Isn’t it sad…
You will leave, then come back (nothing out atm) but those feelings will remain

Imagine how mesmer mains feel >.<

thief is gonna be so boring >.<

Exodus.6501:

thief is gonna be so boring >.<

Fake, his pc was already unplugged. AKA, thieves are just pretending to rage because they know they’re still king. You sly, sly dogs…

If they are really fixing those bugs this is a great change. Thieves and mesmer will have normal mobility like other classes that cannot take advantage of those bugged spots.

xDudisx.5914:

If they are really fixing those bugs this is a great change. Thieves and mesmer will have normal mobility like other classes that cannot take advantage of those bugged spots.

So what you’re saying is, thief and mesmer should lose their mobility. That way they have just as much mobility as classes who out perform thief/mesmer in many other aspects. Seems legit! You must balance for Anet

Drennon.7190:

xDudisx.5914:

If they are really fixing those bugs this is a great change. Thieves and mesmer will have normal mobility like other classes that cannot take advantage of those bugged spots.

So what you’re saying is, thief and mesmer should lose their mobility. That way they have just as much mobility as classes who out perform thief/mesmer in many other aspects. Seems legit! You must balance for Anet

They still technically have that mobility, they just can’t cheese with it. Fixing broken things are a good step to seeing a classes real weak spots so they can be fixed properly. (Whether they DO it or not is out of my hands, but the above still stands.)

Lux.7169:

glock.6590:

In b4 greatsword warrior becomes the fastest class in PvP.

Didn’t you hear? Warriors are getting a couple minor buffs next patch:

-Warriors can now dual wield great swords, great hammers and great shields
-Vengeance no longer causes the warrior to die—it is now a self res.
-Warriors can now bring 2 heals instead of just 1
-Warriors can now fly

Do they have to flap those jumbo wing greatsword to fly?

Jasher.6580:

Lux.7169:

-snip-

I play a Mesmer, so I’m also negatively impacted by this change.

Nevertheless, I think the development team should use this as an opportunity to take a closer look at profession mechanics and balance.

I am happy they are fixing this.

I never liked the idea about porting through a lot of the areas I currently can. Even though I take advantage of it now, it feels cheesy and unsatisfying.

let’s also disregard the fact teleports work only 75-80% of the time, being completely liable to fail even short distance teleports on seemingly flat terrain and also commonly cause death-ensuring glitches like getting stuck in map geometry, movement lock-up, dodging in place while killing your momentum, and near instantly returning you to your previous location despite initially moving you to your targeted area.

i would not be surprised if anet actually prioritized crippling thief/mesmer mobility (a key strength for professions which are widely considered to be balanced) over fixing these bugs that are unfairly hampering their survivability.

ronpierce.2760:

Fixing broken things are a good step to seeing a classes real weak spots so they can be fixed properly. (Whether they DO it or not is out of my hands, but the above still stands.)

Exactly. This was my point.

Drennon.7190:

xDudisx.5914:

If they are really fixing those bugs this is a great change. Thieves and mesmer will have normal mobility like other classes that cannot take advantage of those bugged spots.

So what you’re saying is, thief and mesmer should lose their mobility. That way they have just as much mobility as classes who out perform thief/mesmer in many other aspects. Seems legit! You must balance for Anet

They will still have the same mobility skills just won’t be able to exploit terring glitches to have even more.

won’t masteries provide us all with means of vertical travel?

ZeftheWicked.3076:

won’t masteries provide us all with means of vertical travel?

Masteries are for PvE only. FYI: You are here in the SPvP section of the gw2 forums

And what if I’m trying to shadow step to a ranger on a higher ground in say legacy of foefire, that’s just sniping the s**** out of people? Would it be like the FoH keep camp spot? If so that would be quite lame. Having to go through all that distance just to catch a power camper …

Idk if that is bad news for thieves because I don’t generally play with those in mind with very few exceptions, I can’t be bothered to memorize all those glitchy spots but, having target and being unable to teleport to it has always felt unnatural to me. Even steal doesn’t get me on top of FoH keep spot. Maybe the maps are intended to be this way, to reward camp spots and whatnot.

So I’m just curious if it blocks shadow steps on a target as well.

Drennon.7190:

Phantaram mentioned that, while playing the demo, 90% of the teleport spots no longer work. Not only will this hurt thief mobility, but thief escape mechanics as well. If this is true, I believe that this will be the tipping point for thief in the meta. The risk will no longer be worth the reward.

Great change if true! This will let other zerker builds become much more viable.

Posted by a Thief main.

Shiyo.3578:

Drennon.7190:

Phantaram mentioned that, while playing the demo, 90% of the teleport spots no longer work. Not only will this hurt thief mobility, but thief escape mechanics as well. If this is true, I believe that this will be the tipping point for thief in the meta. The risk will no longer be worth the reward.

Great change if true! This will let other zerker builds become much more viable.

Posted by a Thief main.

You do realize the exact opposite is the case? I swear sometimes it’s like these forums are populated by Martians.

How so? Thieves mobility is one of the main reasons they’re picked over so many other zerker builds. It’s why thief and mesmer are the best zerker roamers and slower classes like ranger can’t compete.

Shiyo.3578:

How so? Thieves mobility is one of the main reasons they’re picked over so many other zerker builds. It’s why thief and mesmer are the best zerker roamers and slower classes like ranger can’t compete.

yeah except you forget the fact that other classes can fill other roles while thieves/mesmers have only one and are already replaced in many cases by just another celery….
let’s make sure that class that can fill only one role can’t even do that…. great balancing decision
/slowclap