Guild Wars 2

So I haven’t played this game much since it bored the hell out of me in Sept, bugs, balance and the hope of a better experience. I figured I would come back in a few months and see.

Here I am, and nothing has changed.

Not a kitten thing.

Necro’s still can’t burst or MM, their minion AI is still screwed, Ranger trait’s tree’s still inconsistent and boring, Warriors still have a useless longbow, Thieves still do 5k+ crits on a 10 point trait and everything else that still wrong.

Mesmers, Thieves and guardians still rule the world.

I read your whole PvP Profession balance – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post999247

And you’re just plain wrong.

I agree that your Profession characteristics should play a role, but it should be a very MINOR role.

Every Profession:
SHOULD be able to build several Burst builds.
SHOULD be able to build several Tank builds.
SHOULD be able to build several Control builds.
SHOULD be able to build several Balanced builds.

The only thing that should be different is “how” they go about it.

I like Necro but I shouldn’t be forced to go Thief or Warrior to play a burst build.

I like Necro, (Thief, Warrior, ect ect – Insert profession here) Not because

The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health.

Because I like the feel of the class, the style and the soul of it but I am still limited from enjoying it because the way I want to play violates your profession identity.

You can’t build a Burst Necro because Necro’s are built for attrition not burst…. blah blah blah.

Who cares?

When your Class profession Balance identities get in the way of a player trying to enjoy the game, to put it simply – You’re Just Wrong.

To re-iterate:

Every Profession:
SHOULD be able to build several Burst builds.
SHOULD be able to build several Tank builds.
SHOULD be able to build several Control builds.
SHOULD be able to build several Balanced builds.

At the moment none of this is possible and if it is, it’s definitively not successful.

On a Minor Note, all of these small changes make me feel like nothing has changed. Intellectually some things have changes sure, but it still doesn’t feel like it. Take some chances and Make some big changes, the sooner you make those changes the sooner i’ll come back and start spending bank on this game.

I guess i’ll check back in another few months…

A necro complaining he can’t do damage? IS THIS REAL LIFE

My complaint is this game is still boring as kitten, i’m limited to 1-2 build to be effective and kitten still doesn’t work.

I could just as easily of used Warrior, Engineer, Mesmer, Ranger, Elementalist, Thief, ect ect. but that would require holding your -Snap- Snap- Focus!!!! – holding your attention for that long.

The lack of realism in your expectations is blinding my sensibilities.

Please, if you’re to weigh the game on those merits, wait a few years before checking back. Anything earlier is wishful thinking, and by then, hopefully you’ll have moved on to and subsequently abandoned enough games to forget about GW2.

The designers of a particular thing have full rights as to how the thing plays out. Odds are they’ll never add an appropriate skill ceiling to the Warrior class that I love, but me expecting them to do what I think is right is, in fact, the thing that is just wrong.

It’s basically like saying Tolkien’s books were all screwed up because Gandalf was Grey and not your favorite color, or that The Mona Lisa is garbage because Da Vinci didn’t draw her as per your personal taste in women.

So please, for everyone around you’s sake, get over yourself.

The problem is, you won’t balance all new changes ASAP, it’s impossible for devs to do this without active player support. By that I mean creating Public Test Realms. All problems, bugs solved. Players want to help improve their game, just give them a chance to do it for free, they can spot way more exploits in a week than whole ANet them in a year.

Or it could be just as simple as:

What do you want to be?

I want to be a Warrior

What kind of warrior to you want to be?

A -“Burst, Control, Balanced, Tank, Attrition”- type of warrior.

There is your build.

Right now it’s -Sorry, Control violates your profession identity, Balanced doesn’t work and Attrition only works if you have a teammate to basically do everything you do but better.

What Type of Build should always be attainable, how they go about it is really the only thing profession should decide.

No it wasn’t unrealistic.

What kind of time table should I expect to be able to enjoy the game?

A. Beta
B. Open Beta
C. Released
D. 6 Months after release
E. A year after release

We are currently moving on our way to E, how much patience do I need?

Necro is not an attrition class. Ele and guardians and condition thieves are attrition classes, because they can actually recover over time and put condition stacks consistently.

When you go into deathshroud, your pressure drops pretty much to zero, and once your heal skill is expended, your health only keeps going down. You don’t have hard CC outside DS fear/Reaper’s Mark, and not even 1.8k toughness and 19k hp is going to weather the state of burst/damage in this game. Necromancer single target condition damage is terrible.

Teams just bring you for fear, corrupt boon, and marks for aoe chill/poison. They’ll bring other classes for real damage and survivability. You’re just there to debunker.

Good luck with power builds — in glass cannon you’ll do the damage of a warrior’s knight-geared autoattack. Good luck with condition builds — that Death Blossom thief and ele and engineer will still outdamage you easily.

Seriously, your kitten staff autoattack as a necro in a best case scenario does 500ish damage, most normally in condition builds 250. Your condition mark is a measly 3 stacks of bleeding. Compare that to the damage of every other class in the game, and you’ll see why necro is a troubled class outside team support fights. They can’t tank like an ele or guardian or engineer; they have the worst damage in the game.

Carrioncrow.6872:

So I haven’t played this game much since it bored the hell out of me

This is what 90% of the people who viewed this thread read, just before they left it. Your opinion is worthless and unwanted here. You clearly have NO real opinion on this game, just a bad attitude. If you didnt follow hype wherever it went you wouldnt have gotten into a game you didnt like, you shouldnt just follow blindly into the next seemingly cool thing.

If you don’t find it fun, walk away with answer E. Nobody cares if you come here to cry and knit pick over this and that. Plenty of us find the game fun. If you don’t, it’s not like its burning a hole in your pocket with a pay per month fee and you are being ripped off. Come back in that year to see if this game is finally “fun” for you rather than bring your negativity to the forums over something most of us find no qualms with. I’m pretty sure if you wanted to be a ____ warrior/necromancer/etc there are some builds for you but yea, it may be subpar to others. That’s just how it is. If you don’t like it, find a new game for now.

Carrioncrow.6872:

No it wasn’t unrealistic.

Yeah it is. There is no game in the history of videogames multiplayer that has provided various viable builds “playstyles” with varied traits, weapons, customization options etc. for different classes on a competitive level in a few months. It takes months, if not years of balancing to get to such a point because of how complex game interactions are in 3D space. Within the couple builds each profession can play(some have more than others), the game is actually pretty balanced.

Also, for what you want bro:
A) Go power necro.
B) Get a good team.
C) Get peelers to keep people off you while you lay down the smackdown.
D) Blood is Power(Necro utility)Empower(staff guardian)Time Warp(Mesmer Elite)+Lich Form(Necro Elite)= Owning entire teams with sick damage.

I share his oppinion.You people tell him he doesn’t play enough so he can’t know…I share his oppinion and I play every week. You tell him to leave and shut up. Why? These are forums…here we say what bothers us, it’s you people who shut his mouth that are not welcome here. And to those who say ,,Plenty of us find the game fun’’, there are always a few who collect garbage to get money, doesn’t mean everybody wants to. I came to this game mostly for PVP, you know what I do now? Map completion…yeah, lvl 80 jumping on rocks to get to high ground and press F.

If Terran vs. Terran can be an enjoyable match in Starcraft, or Ryu vs. Ryu in Street Fighter 2, then <same builds all the time> vs. <some other same builds> should be enjoyable in GW2 as well.

If the basic gameplay of GW2 is not enjoyable for you, then more build variety is not going to help.

Lol at the people who still think it’s too early to complain about these things.
How long are you gonna keep that “Hey guys it’s too early to complain” up? I see now it’s been moved up to a few years.

They have as much of a right to an opinion as anyone else. Even the people who say that they shouldn’t be complaining.

Agreed. I’ve had my Engi since pre-release and still haven’t dinged 80 on him, mostly because I spend all my time in the Mists. He’s the only class I play and after playing easily 10+ builds, I have no idea what my role is supposed to be. Everyone seems to have better support/direct damage/condition damage/bunker ability, so I guess I don’t see where I fit in. No bug fixes, no weapon stats on kits, and nerfed every patch. I sure can pick ’em

@Choops That’s why I personally love engineers so much! We can fulfill any role in the game with a large variety of builds! Whether it be a quad kit bunker, a static discharge dps, or a grenade condi support… Engineers are just the alpha class in GW2

Although the nerfs/bugs suck, it’s not a huge deal. We still kick kitten /p>

You’re really underestimating the hybrid well necro build in terms of burst. Granted, it dies easily but in the competitive format of the game (5vs5) allies will protect you and peel thieves from you, giving you a very powerful pick in terms of aoe burst.

The spec should also do very well in 8vs8 and such as long as you’re careful. Granted, you may die every now and then to a thief or something like that but you’re most likely gonna put down some insane damage before you go down.

Walorx.5129:

@Choops That’s why I personally love engineers so much! We can fulfill any role in the game with a large variety of builds! Whether it be a quad kit bunker, a static discharge dps, or a grenade condi support… Engineers are just the alpha class in GW2

Yeah, but we don’t fulfill any one role particularly well, lol

This game will never be good until they hire some decent developers.

It could be years, or never.

Chakuna.6325:

This game will never be good until they hire some decent developers.

It could be years, or never.

I’m with you on this one. What ANet said they’d deliver obviously wasn’t true, and everyone who hasn’t moved on to other games, or gone back to the game from where they were they left, are just going to have to sit around and do content with broken classes, AI’s, and design flaws that’d be easy to change, but ANet is far too lazy to do anything about it.

I left WoW in hopes that GW2 was going to be better. As far as my opinion goes, I’d rather play WoW, and still do, than GW2. I really want to love this game. I enjoyed it for a time, but due to the huge imbalances and bugs, which are probably never going to be taken care of, this game is unlovable as far as I go.

Please fix your game so I can love it again.

Chakuna.6325:

This game will never be good until they hire some decent developers.

It could be years, or never.

What exactly makes the ANet developers bad at their job? Please list at least 5 reasons.

I think the developers have done a pretty good job so far. It’s only 4 months into the game’s release. No game is perfect or has everything that early in its life. You guys are expecting way too much out of these developers, let them work at their own pace so they can get everything we are asking for bug-free and full of perfection

necro can burst and bunker like a boss. so can the ranger.

i dont mind that thieves have the best applied burst in the game, as long as they dont have the best survivability and the best mobility, 3in1. thats just ridiculous and unfair.

Hello there, OP. I noticed that you don’t enjoy GW2 very much.

That’s fine. I doubt the developers expected that their game would appeal to EVERYONE. Case in point: my grandmother wouldn’t enjoy playing GW2 very much either.

So yeah, that’s cool. No reason for you to stick around or make needlessly aggressive forum posts about it. Go play a different MMO, or perhaps log a few hours in Skyrim.

nerva.7940:

necro can burst and bunker like a boss. so can the ranger.

i dont mind that thieves have the best applied burst in the game, as long as they dont have the best survivability and the best mobility, 3in1. thats just ridiculous and unfair.

Thieves have the worst survivability, and are fourth on mobility.

What thieves do have however is stealth, which is an advantage.

Daecollo.9578:

Thieves have the worst survivability, and are fourth on mobility.

What thieves do have however is stealth, which is an advantage.

Funny comment. Thieves have the worst survivabililty? Ridiculous. Whats about their stealth, shadowstep, blinding powder, shortbow 5 …
I played a thief for a few days now and its absolutly easy to jump in the fight – kill 1 or to guys and if your health gets low .. baam – out of fight and no chance for the enemy to catch you.

I am not railing against the Devs.

Devs are the reason I got into this game.

But in all fairness, they are also the reason I got OUT of this game.

The thing that sold me about this game, is Any RACE, Any PROFESSION, your way.

I’ve played BWE1, BWE2, BWE3, all the testing days and hit it hardcore from release up until September when I start dropping off because nothing has changed.

I get that ANet wants to take smaller steps to not upset the Meta balance, I say “TAKE bigger steps.” What we have so far isn’t working (IMHO) and the Dev’s are concerned with trying not to brake what is in my mind already broke.

I’d rather see bigger strides taken in the name of progress than yet coming back “Again” in another 3 months to see nothing has changed.

This post may anger or upset some of you, that’s fine. It’s not FOR you – Well mostly not you. It’s for the Dev’s and in a lesser point for other people to discuss and bring a different perspectives on this topic.

I didn’t play this game for the PvE, for the graphics, for the events, for the special looking armor or the Anet points, or the Ranks, Pvp gear, or all that other foolishness.

I played this game for the PvP.

And I would like to again.

Chakuna.6325:

This game will never be good until they hire some decent developers.

It could be years, or never.

Pretty much sums up this thread.

Just look at their balance changes.

Burst damage ability + quickness is broken because of quickness. What’s their change? Nerf the burst ability so that it’s useless without quickness.

Thieves burst too much, primarily because of mug. What’s their change? Nerf C&D so that all thief specs get hurt, not just D/D mug specs.

I can go on and on about random changes that don’t address the problems.

In the mean time, they push out more balance changes, which is pointless anyways. One class isn’t dominating the game. You don’t see 5v5 games where an entire team of mesmers is actually a legit comp.

No Infrastructure.

Their design for competitive play failed. No ladder. Some QP system. How long did the QP system take to develop? Answer shouldn’t be longer than 10minutes.

And in turn, how they derive revenues from PvP in general is non-existent. No one buys tickets except with the free money given to them from paids or free tournies.

Basically sPvP has been completely mishandled from the ground up.

Very disheartening.

Carrioncrow.6872:

Every Profession:
SHOULD be able to build several Burst builds.
SHOULD be able to build several Tank builds.
SHOULD be able to build several Control builds.
SHOULD be able to build several Balanced builds.

Pick the profession you want to do a particular job with. There are many reasons why this concept is beneficial, most of which have parallels in real life.

interferenz.8739:

Daecollo.9578:

Thieves have the worst survivability, and are fourth on mobility.

What thieves do have however is stealth, which is an advantage.

Funny comment. Thieves have the worst survivabililty? Ridiculous. Whats about their stealth, shadowstep, blinding powder, shortbow 5 …
I played a thief for a few days now and its absolutly easy to jump in the fight – kill 1 or to guys and if your health gets low .. baam – out of fight and no chance for the enemy to catch you.

Survivability is the ability to take damage and live through it.

Shadowstep, Short bow 5 are mobility.

Blinding Powder is a one shot block, nobody in pvp is going to stand in the blinding field. This is mostly a pve move.

Stealth is not survivability, its pure deception, you can’t see me, doesn’t mean I won’t die to a random AOE if you hit me with it.

Cogbyrn.7283:

What exactly makes the ANet developers bad at their job? Please list at least 5 reasons.

1. Terrible balancing. They have like 2 people working on balance from what i have heard, LOL.

2. Bunch of developers who changes their stances or “philosophy” on professions roles every kitten month

3. Bunch of developers who focuses on zerging style pvp, hence WvW/sPVP. To me this is the biggest killer, i hate zerging.

4. Terrible communication. Well to be honest every company in the MMO industry lacks this. This is however one of the better company with communication but still extremely bad.

5. Simply out of touch with their player base.

Daecollo.9578:

interferenz.8739:

Daecollo.9578:

Thieves have the worst survivability, and are fourth on mobility.

What thieves do have however is stealth, which is an advantage.

Funny comment. Thieves have the worst survivabililty? Ridiculous. Whats about their stealth, shadowstep, blinding powder, shortbow 5 …
I played a thief for a few days now and its absolutly easy to jump in the fight – kill 1 or to guys and if your health gets low .. baam – out of fight and no chance for the enemy to catch you.

Survivability is the ability to take damage and live through it.

Nope, thats called mitigation. Survivability is just being able to stay alive. Profs that can drop targets whenever the hell they want, and/or just run away have the most survivability. Thief has the most survivability in the game. Also the most reliable burst and some of the best mobility.

nerva.7940:

Daecollo.9578:

interferenz.8739:

Daecollo.9578:

Thieves have the worst survivability, and are fourth on mobility.

What thieves do have however is stealth, which is an advantage.

Funny comment. Thieves have the worst survivabililty? Ridiculous. Whats about their stealth, shadowstep, blinding powder, shortbow 5 …
I played a thief for a few days now and its absolutly easy to jump in the fight – kill 1 or to guys and if your health gets low .. baam – out of fight and no chance for the enemy to catch you.

Survivability is the ability to take damage and live through it.

Nope, thats called mitigation. Survivability is just being able to stay alive. Profs that can drop targets whenever the hell they want, and/or just run away have the most survivability. Thief has the most survivability in the game. Also the most reliable burst and some of the best mobility.

Whats so great from surviving if you cant do your objective(cap/decap the point). Btw Stealth is deception just like mesmers clones. It is survivability in your skills/trickery, not one integrated into gear. And for burst to be effective he has to have good mobility. Burst withouth ability to be where he is needed is useless by itself.

Thief has( my opinion)
3rd best dmg burst.
1st burst by chance to suceed.
1st in combat mobility.
3rd out of combat mobilility.
8th damage migtation.
1st way to avoid taking dmg.
8th place by chance to defend a point from beeing decaped.
4th place at decaping point.
7th place at generating combo fields.
2nd place by generating combo finishers.
4th place at single target sustained dps.
4th place at aoe sustained dps.

d/d ele beats thief if most of these ratings of mine. Rating system is from 1st to 8th.

if burst = max dmage in minimum TTK, how many different builds can a class have? i think op is confused

All classes should be able to perform all roles competitively in PvP without exception and to be kitten with any other line of reasoning. This is 2013 now. Time to build a truly competitive PvP experience. If we want to be pigeon-holed we have plenty of other games to play that most of us have already invested in.

Every Class, Every Role, Truly Competitive PvP. – this needs to be your only goal otherwise you owe a bunch of PvP fans their money back.

Burst = Spike – Means massive damage in a short amount of time.

Sounds good right?

But if one classes burst is another classes balanced – That’s wrong.

I shouldn’t have to pick profession to get a role, I should be able to pick any role inside of a profession.

Professions should be a playstyle thing, not a role thing. ANet is confusing roles for playstyle. People don’t want classes defined by roles. That’s sort of the thing with GW2, classes being defined by playstyle that have many viable roles.

A Necro is very tanky, but its more the Necro playstyle that people are looking for. The death shroud, pets and ground targeted abilities. Messing around with life force and such.

I play Mesmer most often. I don’t seek for it to have a limited role. I seek for its playstyle of movement, teleports, illusions, and trickery to do many roles while maintaining that particular feel.

Exactly.

And within each profession you should be able to build towards a role and be successful at it, the only thing that differs is the “HOW”

For instance:

Guardian Tanks by being straight up heals through boons, abilities that heals, condition removal and high armor. The way to beat the tank is kill his boons.

A Necro Tank should be able to Tank as well (If not JUST as well – clearly within shouting distance), possibly by sacrificing his own pets or straight up pulls HP from the pets (Not just the heal) to gain HP. Way to defeat the Necro Tank would be to kill the pets.

A Ranger Tank should be able to Tank as well (If Not JUST as well – then clearly within shouting distance), possibly by x-fering damage done to their pet and then healing their pet or cycling pets.

These roles should be viable (Not just viable, but successful) no matter what Profession you take, just the way you go about it is different.