Guild Wars 2

So if you don’t have an sPvP guild, you don’t get to play sPvP at all? Or would this be in addition to hotjoin?

So basically we need unrated tPvP and should remove hot-join? I cannot agree more with that. If they re-add unrated tPvP, I personally would have no reason ever to do hot-join.

One more thing, the reason they removed free tournaments aka, unrated is because it was basically premades stomping pugs. If they were to implement an completely overhauled solo queue feature, in unrated play this problem would not exist.

As much as I agree with your points, I have to disagree to let go of the hot join format.
This gives a needed avenue for a different play style, glory farming, etc.

Changing the rules will not (in my opinion) change the behavior of the players. I wager most are in hot join in the first place because the don’t want to play by the ranked tournament rules or get stomped by premades.

Have you considered a custom arena as a solution to your goals?

It is a plea to rethink casual, unrated SPvP to a format which is educational and encourages growth towards competitive play! Not necessarily remove Hotjoin.

Hotjoin, as it stands, lacks this and even limits new players’ abilities to learn the conquest gametype, as we know it in Tournaments, because of the issues listed above and more.
I hope this thread can be a constructive reference point, which sums up the grievances with Hotjoin that have floated around the forums in the past.

@Draedark: I don’t consider Custom arena as a solution, because it is a gemsink, which splits the community into haves and have-nots.
While it is similar to the unrated variation of Rated Tournaments I think we require, the customization is only of interest to guilds, teams and streamers.

Personally, I think the problem with hotjoin is that it doesn’t even remotely teach players how to play Conquest, as you pointed out. I made a thread about this exactly earlier, no one responded, qq.

But yeah, there needs to be some unranked format which teaches incoming players how conquest works. Removing hotjoins isn’t necessarily the only way to do this though — they could implement easier to watch streams or shoutcasting in-game or could rework the way you accumulate points on the scoreboard, so on and so forth.

/Signed!

They should at least get rid of 8v8. Scale it back to only 5v5 or 6v6. Hot join still has a purpose in educating very new people as to the layout of the map, but 8v8 promotes bad builds too much. 5v5 or 6v6 (to allow some buffer in leaving/joining) slows the game down quite a bit and is much closer to tournament play. That at least makes it slightly better for developing builds.

Going full tournament is bit too much until they get a better rating system in place and make it visible to players.

ArenaNet’s argument on why hotjoin is 8v8: If hot join was 5v5, a single leaver makes a dramatic difference, and players are constantly leaving and new players joining; it’s too unstable of an environment. It also puts a lot more weight on the individual performance of players; a beginner will have a lot of responsibility weighted on his shoulders, which can be intimidating and even discouraging.

My argument: Then restrict the ability to leave mid-game by adding a leaver time penalty (yes for hot joins). Individual player skill growth should be emphasized and not avoided. Hot join should be treated as a form of PvP that conditions or trains players into becoming better, more skilled players. Restricting the option to leave will encourage players to work with their teammates instead of leaving the instant they are at a disadvantage. Players can leave if they wish (such as to join their tPvP match); they will just not be able to play hot joins again for 30 minutes due to the leaver penalty.

1) Bigger maps. Much bigger maps with increased sandbox area.
2) 5 or 7 nodes. Not three that are in a fairly linear circle formation on the map.
3) Team benefits and individual reward with titles for actual styles of game play.
4) Glory gained from stomps is directly relative to the amount of damage you inflicted on them before downstate.

why?
The current map size creates chaotic mess zone area’s with AoE. The damage these area’s produce is one thing, however the mass particle effect blinds a lot of melee players. It Grinds many players video card render pipelines and many AoE animations over lap making it impossible for a player to discern what is what and where.

5-7 nodes on larger maps disperses the player population. Currently there is no significant reason to target any area of the map for any particular reason apart from that your team doesn’t hold it. If each node provided a team effect that encourages teams rather than pick off nodes one by one, to advance nodes in smaller splinter teams. Effects could include benefits like your teams projectile attacks now have 50% chance of piercing and travel 15% further. Your team holding this node decreases your oppositions healing by 7% and quickens your teams healing cast time by 20%. Each nodes provides a reason for why you want to hold it.

Each node has a under the hood courtyard around it. Finishers and stomps in the area contribute to a defender title. Each level of this title provides rewards that are actually sort after and/or useful. Not a RNG chest that gives any old item, finisher emotes etc. Area’s outside of node area’s contribute to roamer title. Engaging a node advances usurper title etc.

Glory gained from stomps is fairly casual currently. If I see a person in downstate and unload a mesmer iduelist on it, all it takes is that damage to ensure when they do get stomped I will receive full reward. If I spam marks on a area, I may not down anyone but usually 20-25 seconds my screen suddenly starts filling with full rewards. This would greatly help with players joining the gank. You can do so if you wish, but your final reward is going to be pathetic for everyone, because each of you only hold a smaller percentage of what damage was done. Eventually it becomes more profitable in terms of glory,.. you know..to go seeking your own glory through engaging nodes or players roaming or defending.

The amount of players per team reflects what points node generate. 8 vs 8 generates normal point accumulation. In situations of 7 vs 8 the smaller side generates 1/7 more points from nodes. So technically if a team is 4 vs 5..any nodes the 4 man team holds will generate 20% more points. This allows teams with leavers to still have a competitive chance. If another player joins, that 20% is now no longer in effect.

All teams are randomly generated in spvp. Too often you’ll see one side where their lowest ranked player is 23 and the oppositions highest ranked player is 6. The final score is usually 500-63. This is why despite me liking the idea that friends can play with friends, why this shouldn’t happen in Spvp..if one wants to play with friends that is what tpvp is for. However, I do agree that not all people want to now be forced to play competitively on a ladder. In most sports teams can elect to have a friendly match. the results affect nothing, but there is no trophy etc either..just bragging rights and enjoying the match is the result. There will be a reward, but it remains outside of ladder consideration and takes into account teams averaged rank per player as its deciding factor in match making. This would probably create a waiting period for matches to be scheduled and happen, so the team objective now has to have longevity and purpose so players feel they actually had a match rather walked in, got blitzed and now have to wait a while before having a another. I don’t think nodes would be appropriate for this game mode, however gw2 is optimised for this mode, so it would be tricky to figure out a mode that feels defined and enjoyable.

Just my 2 cents worth.

@Stof – I think I better understand what your saying, and again I totally agree with you and most other posters here about the issues with Hot Join. If we are saying add this as a third PvP option it may just work, and hopefully not spread the population too thin.

Here would then be my only concerns: Without some overhauls to the way Rank Points/Glory points are earned, I fear that this environment would not help further your cause any better than current Hot Join simply because it is not-rated (leaderboard wise) the motives of the players could remain the same as when they are in Hot Join so the play styles would remain similar.

to the op, I like the idea of traking stats K/D for example and having a leader board based on point performance and such.

TC should’ve added “TL;DR: get rid of open hotjoins, add rating-free tournaments”, which is his post without all the rambling.

you cant remove hotjoin – it should be improved with features , maps and modes

because YOU and some others like to play competive you cant break the game for it – gw2 still is an mmo and so are they players still an mmo playerbase

ye arenanet baitet some PVPers for e-sport with wrong advertising at release but in an mmo their are alot players which jsut wanna pvp and they dont care for leaderboards or whatever

we have ppl in guild which dont even know their are leaderboards but they do hotjoins from time to time

this attitude from op will not help the playerbase – and its jsut wrong design in the beginning to make an mmo and trie to copy league of legends for the pvp^^

we would have soooo much more player would arenanet just add in hotjoin something like alterac valley from wow or arathi or hutball from swtor or …… all this what MASSES wanna play + add some usefull rewards like backpack or pets or pvp(wvw) gear or “+%xp + %gold +%glory +%mf” as accountarchievment with new system for something like glory ……. and so on

you cant delete the MMO-Playerbase for pvp in an mmo and just suppourt the e-sport ppl cause it will fail – their will be no new ppl, noone will watch the stream(like we alraedy have), the e-sport ppl will be bored fast and quit + playerbase even lower …… and so on

arenanet should start to supourt the “casual” and “mmo” pvpers with fun …. not with e-sport

thx

Stof.9584:

- Lack of educational aids <> initial learning curve of the gametype.

Am I the only one who sees a problem here? I personally only play in Hotjoins and you know what? I don’t wan’t to get “educated”, I want to have fun kittening around and fighting people my way once in a couple of days for several hours.

I think you are a bit drifting away from the definition of a word “game”. Guild Wars 2 is a game first and foremost, not some sort of educational program or a real sport (despite of the esports whining all around).

I basically view Hotjoins as a Deathmatch with a twist and it’s fun for me, why should you ruin that fun? What for? So that you will have less “n00bs” in your precious tPvP? Don’t you think it is a bit selfish?

Gaidax.7835:

Stof.9584:

- Lack of educational aids <> initial learning curve of the gametype.

Am I the only one who sees a problem here? I personally only play in Hotjoins and you know what? I don’t wan’t to get “educated”, I want to have fun kittening around and fighting people my way once in a couple of days for several hours.

I think you are a bit drifting away from the definition of a word “game”. Guild Wars 2 is a game first and foremost, not some sort of educational program or a real sport (despite of the esports whining all around).

I basically view Hotjoins as a Deathmatch with a twist and it’s fun for me, why should you ruin that fun? What for? So that you will have less “n00bs” in your precious tPvP? Don’t you think it is a bit selfish?

why would having better learning tools (which are most definitely needed) get in the way of your hotjoins? it’s not like adding a decent guide to PvP mechanics, roles, strategies, etc would suddenly replace your hotjoins.

if anything, a more educated playerbase would turn hotjoins into something more enjoyable for everyone, instead of the occasional “ball of 8 players chasing people around”, where no one has fun (too easy for the zerg, too frustrating for the individuals getting chased).

BrunoBRS.5178:

Gaidax.7835:

Stof.9584:

- Lack of educational aids <> initial learning curve of the gametype.

Am I the only one who sees a problem here? I personally only play in Hotjoins and you know what? I don’t wan’t to get “educated”, I want to have fun kittening around and fighting people my way once in a couple of days for several hours.

I think you are a bit drifting away from the definition of a word “game”. Guild Wars 2 is a game first and foremost, not some sort of educational program or a real sport (despite of the esports whining all around).

I basically view Hotjoins as a Deathmatch with a twist and it’s fun for me, why should you ruin that fun? What for? So that you will have less “n00bs” in your precious tPvP? Don’t you think it is a bit selfish?

why would having better learning tools (which are most definitely needed) get in the way of your hotjoins? it’s not like adding a decent guide to PvP mechanics, roles, strategies, etc would suddenly replace your hotjoins.

if anything, a more educated playerbase would turn hotjoins into something more enjoyable for everyone, instead of the occasional “ball of 8 players chasing people around”, where no one has fun (too easy for the zerg, too frustrating for the individuals getting chased).

But maybe, just maybe, we don’t want to have better learning tools? Maybe we just want to log in once in a while and have an hour of fast fun and be done with it for two days? Hotjoins is a place where you can jump in, have fun with minimal responsibility and headaches and jump out at will, that is it’s purpose – pure fun for those who want fast action without obligations.

Hotjoin is a popular game mode and exactly because it is the way it is, why mess with it?

I do not understand, what are you trying to fix exactly?

1) tPvP players , when money or rating is in stake , they kittening-calling bad names their team8s at th end of the match . In sPvP this behavior is more normalized , bacause u can rejoin a new match in case ur loosing .
2) When also money or rating is in stake , tPvP ppl use-copy only the Apex builds . Its not very fun vs new players
3) Beacause in tPvP there are 2 bunkers and 3 roamers most times , theres most likely u will engage more 1v1 fights .
Like most PvP games all characters are balanced around teamplay .
When a person will come here to whine , ppl will say to him <<dude , its balanced around teamfights , get the f out of here>>
So hotjoins is a truly teamplay mode , like 8v8 GvG or in WoW (10v10 or 15v15)
4) Whoever wants to try tPvP , he knows the way . Based on a thread while ago , when ppl have asked to company to put a minimul rank requiement of 10-20 lvl , before they can join tPvP

I agree with the free and unrated tournament – instead of hotjoin. Of course something like the Custom Arenas still should be there for guilds to train and to custom stuff(needs more and better settings… and with the ready button it is a bit like a tournament environment).

At the moment I’m only doing my dailies – not playing much sPvP(tPvP) because maps like Spirit Watch are not in the rotation and I’d like to play them… at tournament, hotjoin is boring.

Also I’m playing tournaments only… even though I’m doing achievements. Hotjoin is that worse… even to to the achievements I don’t want to go there.

Oh and since we can’t chose the tournament map and I’m forced to play the maps I don’t like(or as alternative the boring hotjoin which is still worse) I often go afk early if we are losing… since boring map = not worth if we are already losing early.

Blame the game – not the player. I want free unrated queues for every map. Even if it takes much longer to queue then cause the low player base splits on all the queues.

Solution would be: Let us queue from everywhere so we could to PvE or something else while queuing and waiting. Then longer queues = no problem.

Hotjoin only teaches players how to play badly… I think it’s funny it’s still there…

While I understand OP concern and point of view, I think this idea is like forcing flower to bloom by punching it repeatedly.

Stof.9584:

Issues
- Glory farming = zerging.
- 8v8 is an unplayable mess of AOE and spamming.

Yeah – I hate that too. But at least – there are some players playing now. It’s not like Anet didn’t see it was coming. Playerbase interested more in clean PvP moved to greener grass already (that’s my opinion). We’re left with what we got. If You take glory farming, zerging, 8vs8 from players who enjoy that, PvP playerbase will shrink even further. So yeah. Good concept, not sure if it’s good idea alltogether.

Stof.9584:

- No one defends points (key aspect of the conquest gametype).

Not newcomers/casuals fault, that main reason to play conquest doesn’t seem appealing at all. Look what Anet did with PvP daily some time ago – they turned medicore ideas to improve PvP daily into some horrific chores by absurdly bad execution. “New” abandoned daily, was promoting, no, not promoting – it was almost forcing zerg attitude. So they got back to old daily, that is only appreciating zerg attitude. Step back in right direction. How ironically. If You add to the pot those guys who like to do duels etc. You’ve got Your answer.

Stof.9584:

- No teamplay: general disregard for allies (doesn’t affect personal glory gain).
- Random joining / leaving affects teamspirit and social motivation.

Well… yeah. But I doesn’t see as a problem. Or big problem at least. It’s a hot join – I join there to do my daily fast way if the mood hits me. Or to farm some purple points. Or to kill some time before my guildies will gather for a dungeon. Join/leave anytime I like gives me flexibility, that You want to deny me, for reasons I do not understand.
If I want higher culture of PvP I go for a tournament. Premade that is…

Stof.9584:

- Lack of educational aids <> initial learning curve of the gametype.

Heh… tell me how to make this education thingy in more tournament environment and I’ll buy You a beer. I help from time to time strangers meet in PvP – the thing is that it doesn’t happen too often, because PvP is hazardous environment in almost every game. That, and the fact that I’m not super pro winning tournaments, so I’m no authority for even newcomers. But when I help people to learn something (mostly new to the game friends from RL) I’ll do it in hot join… because it’s easier. People don’t treat it as seriously as tPvP, they are nicer overall and leave game when they are asked politely, so we can waste as much time without arena tokens as we want. Can’t really see that coming without hot join.

Stof.9584:

- Varrying skilllevels makes it unenjoyable for both new and veteran players.

Disagree – it’s awesome farmfest. Sometimes I find people on matching skills or better than me, so I can’t even say it’s predictable. And there is something sweet with carrying almost singlehandedly a loosing team to a win. Never saw that in tPvP. There is no autobalancing there, best player on my can’t suddenly change his team to rise from knees other. Doesn’t happen to often, but I was in that positions once or twice and I can tell You it feels better than winning tPvP match with good premade against good premade. Not as rewarding in term of points etc., but feels awesome.

Stof.9584:

- Autobalancing restricts playing with friends.

For this, You’ve got arena tokens and premade tPvP. So actually You say, You want to deny those who like that kind of russian rullete their shoot, because You don’t like it? … yeah. Right.

Stof.9584:

- Gap between Hotjoin and Tournaments on multiple fronts.

What is the “gap” You are talking about? That two different types of Conquest doesn’t seem clone like to You? I say GOOD. That was the idea. If the hot join should be more like tPvP, it would be unnecessary, so – as You imply, Anet should let it go. But it’s not, that’s why it’s still necessary however broken it is.

Stof.9584:

- Map rotation: no one likes Raid of the Capricorn.

For one – I like it. Actually it’s the best map (in my opinion) to work with newcomers on some easy tactic actions with proper coordination.

Stof.9584:

- …

And I can drink to that!

While I agree that we’ve got looooot of bad things in hot join, I doesn’t see cutting it down as an answer. I can live with semi-broken hot join if Anet will fix bigger problem that is corrupting PvP – the whole concept, borringness and apathy that is known as “Conquest”. And no viable rewards for anyone who bought GW2 to play only PvP (but again, that is my opinion).
Forcing people to play conquest more properly doesn’t change fact that whole mode will get old after 2 weeks of playing. With or without hot join.

My biggest issue in SPvP is the lack of incentive to actually WIN the game. I for one am willing to get less points by back capping the zerg and hardly seeing combat if my team wins the match, yet people treat you like a moron for doing so.

In GW1 you always went for the win because the rewards were terrible otherwise. Now you can just go around as a Mesmer shatter spamming or ganking in a zerg as a Thief and get more glory that way. Not to mention 8v8 servers just shouldn’t exist or maps need to be adjusted to account for the larger player count.

I like conquest in TPvP, it’s more interesting than the old TDM, but in SPvP capturing points comes second to getting kills. adjusting the points given for kills would go a long way in encouraging good play. Maybe give bonus chests for having the highest capture score rather than a little glory boost.

what needs to happen:
hotjoin removed
what won’t happen:
hotjoin removed

why?
gems.

I posted something like this months ago.
I told anet to stop kittening around and fix pvp, or they will continue to hemorrhage players.

1. Disable hotjoin.
2. Change current Rated Tourny to accept only full team rosters.
3. Add Rated SoloQ
4. Add Unrated SoloQ*
5. Add your stupid LFG tool that has been in development for a year.
6. Only winning team gets rewards.
7. Do not show Rank on scoreboard. In fact, replace it with new title you get for winning tournies. (still don’t show it).
8. Delete scoreboard or come up with better way to score players. (delete is better)
9. Winning promotes you to next round, losing kicks you to HotM.
10. Oh, and add Automated/Monthly Tournament system from GW1.

*Unrated SoloQ uses same pool of people as Rated SoloQ. You are placed in grp according to your rating (modified to be lower than normal), but your rating is not affected from wins or losses. Playing Unrated means you get no rewards (or very little). This is to help offset small playerbase. Unrated is for trying new builds or professions or kittening around.

Removing hot join doesn’t encourage players to learn the game. It only encourages players to already know how to play the game, and discourages the ones who don’t without teaching tools. Unless you use a cookie cutter build with a cookie cutter playstyle, other people don’t want you on their team because you’ll be dragging their team down. There is no room for experimentation, learning new rotations and skill usage, generalized practice in using new layouts or equipment. All that would exist is tournaments, and all that would be is elitists being elite and only letting other elitists play the way they want them to play.

I like to hotjoin regularly to try out new things and get the hang of classes I haven’t played in awhile without having to deal with some elitist whining about how I’m not running a bunker guardian when they need one.

I play hotjoin exclusively and love it. Why? Because I hate playing in a team and just want to run around killing people and farming glory. That’s the way I want to play the game and no one has the right to tell me otherwise. Those who like teams will their way to tPvP. Leave the rest of us alone.

Personally I think tPvP needs to become more like hotjoin. Not the other way around.

How about revamping the scoring system and the way glory is rewarded?

Three “simple” steps:
1. add hotjoin Deatchmatch mode,
2. remove hotjoin Conquest mode,
3. add non-rated Conquest tPvP.

I think it’s funny how people want to force other players to do what they enjoy. Just let the Hot Join players do their thing and you do yours.

Some people don’t have the time or don’t want to play in a premade team – they simply want to have a short PvP match. No need to look for other players, no restrictions, no long queue, just a short game for fun.

If you remove Hot Join and replace it with something like a non-rated tPvP you basically kick all those players out of the game which means even less PvP players. I don’t mind if they farm glory or don’t have the knowledge competitive players have as long as they have fun and keep on playing the game.

A bigger community increases the chance to become an esport one day more than a small, competitive community. That’s at least how it worked for the last few years.

What we need is systems in place to prevent uneven teams as much as possible:
- A better matchmaking system that teams up similar party formations, like party of 3 + 2 random, 2 parties of 2 + 1 random, 5 randoms, etc. On top of similar ranking. A team of 5 from a party will be superior on average to 5 randoms, that’s why lots of players Synced in GW1 for random arenas and left upon arriving to team areas: to gain an advantage over random teams, and left team arenas as they lost that advantage.
- Prevents match from starting if the match is not 5vs5.
- A system to replace leavers (temporarily if it was a disconnection, replacing the replacement when the original team member is back) and systems in place to prevent uneven teams.
- Systems to punish leavers if they do that too often.
- Revamping scoring, how glory is earned, favoring and rewarding more play that leads to victory (e.g: Giving score for defending points, not just glory).
- And adding more modes without conquest rules so players that can’t wrap their heads around conquest rules can go to other places instead.

Removing how join will cause a problem bigger than “uneven teams”: Less players.

@claim that hotjoin helps teach noobs: it is probably exactly the opposite. they just get farmed until they understand to stay with the group. then they do that and what have they learned exactly? if the default option for new players was “Ranked SoloQ” then there will be even playing field for noobs to play one-another. very simple.

@people who get angry because they play hotjoin: you get spoiled by tons of glory reward from killing noobs 24/7 & leave when it’s going bad for you, creating an imbalance for remaining players. it’s natural you’d be mad, you have everything you want. but hotjoin is a plague on the game and there’s no reason a more structured environment can’t be just as fun and more fair.

Konrad.9587:

Three “simple” steps:
1. add hotjoin Deatchmatch mode,
2. remove hotjoin Conquest mode,
3. add non-rated Conquest tPvP.

Introducing new modes in sPvP , with the new achiv system it might work.
They could replicate the current PvP daily achiv , so sPvP and tPvP will have the same aims (8 total PvP daily achivements) , but seperatly .
sPvP should award 1 (achiv) point per daily aim completed , while tPvP should award 5 points + automatically completes the sPvP too for an addition 5 total points
And an other daily that awards 3 achiv points for every tPvP match wins (5 max wins per day)

So we have ppl that :
a) Achiv junkies , that will try tPvP
b) Ppl that tream sPvP like a minigame , and come for some fun

Interesting, thanks for the replies so far.

In all honest, I did not expect people would be so fearful about losing Hotjoin.
In no way am I implying it ought to be removed from the game. Restricting the playerbase to the competitive core, obviously, goes against growth as well. This is why I made the thread.

The fact remains there is no middle ground!

Hotjoin doesn’t even closely resemble the (intended) type of gameplay we see in Tournaments.

I think, it is absurd people don’t feel encouragement to learn is essential. But this is the general mentality I associate with Hotjoin.

Konrad.9587:

Three “simple” steps:
1. add hotjoin Deathmatch mode,
2. remove hotjoin Conquest mode,
3. add non-rated Conquest tPvP.

I’m starting to think this is the best option, but it means basically giving up on a large portion of the community. I can only see casual players moving from Deathmatch to Conquest, because of a new reward system: “Oh, that’s a cool greatsword skin! It is only rewarded through Conquest? Maybe I should play…”

Stof.9584:

I think, it is absurd people don’t feel encouragement to learn is essential.

Why would it be, though? Some people just play this game (or certain modes of this game) casually. As this is a game and not a job, there’s no reason they shouldn’t be allowed to get what enjoyment they want out of it. They’re not hurting anyone.

I just want to pop in and say that I actually like Raid of the Capricorn. The water easily gives extra routes to attack from, and the cannon makes a great anti-zerg tool when a team uses it properly. The primary problems with the map come from the lack of proper underwater balance (especially regarding down state) and the fact that you can’t easily setup skills for it while not being in the water.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Stof.9584:

I think, it is absurd people don’t feel encouragement to learn is essential.

Why would it be, though? Some people just play this game (or certain modes of this game) casually. As this is a game and not a job, there’s no reason they shouldn’t be allowed to get what enjoyment they want out of it. They’re not hurting anyone.

I’m not against casual play at all, since I consider myself a casual player without a team, practice schedule or competetive goals. But I am certain a functional reward system is completely tied to personal improvement as a player.

Simply playing more isn’t rewarding. Longterm enjoyment in SPvP comes from discovering and understanding. Running mindlessly from point to point or spamming buttons until something dies won’t cut it in the long run! Not for the player who has been logging in since August last year to play against other players in this game.

Obviously, casual players are not physically or mentally hurting anyone. But Anet is hurting the development of its own community by denying a large portion of players to progress into and experience the Tournament environment.

SPvP was designed to be played a certain way: capturing and holding points in the conquest gametype.
For the issues listed above by numerous people, Hotjoin no longer delivers.

Did you guys forget about the 5v5 hotjoins? :/ I mean in most of the games I used to join people actually tried to win. 5v5 matches are still there and it’s up to the player to choose between them and an 8v8 zergfest match. Unfortunately it is true that if the average 8v8 hotjoin hero decides to play tPvP he will undoubtedly be a burden to his team, I know from personal experience :P.

Draedark.8193:

As much as I agree with your points, I have to disagree to let go of the hot join format.
This gives a needed avenue for a different play style, glory farming, etc.

People should be farming glory in tournament pvp wins, not free glory handed to you for being the 6th person to smack a downed guy.

I wouldn’t mind hotjoin being where it is at now if.
They limit cap the glory in hotjoin to 200.
A bonus if you win hotjoin.

Gaidax.7835:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Gaidax.7835:

Stof.9584:

- Lack of educational aids <> initial learning curve of the gametype.

Am I the only one who sees a problem here? I personally only play in Hotjoins and you know what? I don’t wan’t to get “educated”, I want to have fun kittening around and fighting people my way once in a couple of days for several hours.

I think you are a bit drifting away from the definition of a word “game”. Guild Wars 2 is a game first and foremost, not some sort of educational program or a real sport (despite of the esports whining all around).

I basically view Hotjoins as a Deathmatch with a twist and it’s fun for me, why should you ruin that fun? What for? So that you will have less “n00bs” in your precious tPvP? Don’t you think it is a bit selfish?

why would having better learning tools (which are most definitely needed) get in the way of your hotjoins? it’s not like adding a decent guide to PvP mechanics, roles, strategies, etc would suddenly replace your hotjoins.

if anything, a more educated playerbase would turn hotjoins into something more enjoyable for everyone, instead of the occasional “ball of 8 players chasing people around”, where no one has fun (too easy for the zerg, too frustrating for the individuals getting chased).

But maybe, just maybe, we don’t want to have better learning tools? Maybe we just want to log in once in a while and have an hour of fast fun and be done with it for two days? Hotjoins is a place where you can jump in, have fun with minimal responsibility and headaches and jump out at will, that is it’s purpose – pure fun for those who want fast action without obligations.

Hotjoin is a popular game mode and exactly because it is the way it is, why mess with it?

I do not understand, what are you trying to fix exactly?

why would you NOT want learning tools? you don’t HAVE to do them, and they WON’T kill your hotjoins. it would be an entirely separated thing.

you’re basically complaining about that tutorial zone, or the training NPCs.

Gaidax.7835:

Stof.9584:

- Lack of educational aids <> initial learning curve of the gametype.

Am I the only one who sees a problem here? I personally only play in Hotjoins and you know what? I don’t wan’t to get “educated”, I want to have fun kittening around and fighting people my way once in a couple of days for several hours.

I think you are a bit drifting away from the definition of a word “game”. Guild Wars 2 is a game first and foremost, not some sort of educational program or a real sport (despite of the esports whining all around).

I basically view Hotjoins as a Deathmatch with a twist and it’s fun for me, why should you ruin that fun? What for? So that you will have less “n00bs” in your precious tPvP? Don’t you think it is a bit selfish?

I think you are missing the point here. Hot-joins are barely any fun for anyone, and they don’t teach anything at all. If running around dying to rank 50s or killing rank 10s is your kind of fun, then sure go for it. If I am in a hot-join I hardly ever play my main profession with a build I know best.

IF there was unranked (like I have stated previously) it could replace or be one with hot-join. Maybe we don’t need to remove hot-join but give those newer players a second option, so they can slow step into tPvP.

And yes, this is the whole point so there will be less inexperienced players in tPvP. Any team of Rank 40+ will just stomp rank 10s. Obviously rank means nothing, but 9 times out of ten, it has not been a smurf. The only way for them to learn (there’s that word again) is to play the exact same game mode – 5v5 – but unranked.

Learning can be fun, just because this is not an educational game doesn’t mean you should not have to learn how to play it.

uberkingkong.8041:

People should be farming glory in tournament pvp wins, not free glory handed to you for being the 6th person to smack a downed guy.

I wouldn’t mind hotjoin being where it is at now if.
They limit cap the glory in hotjoin to 200.
A bonus if you win hotjoin.

Heres the trap the old geezers have created :P

Hotjoins helps u rank faster , vs Tournaments helps u to increase ur QP points or Rating .
Rank faster vs more Rating .
Personal motivation(grind) vs Peronal motivation(feel leet) .
2 different carrot on the sticks for 2 different kind of ppl :P

Stof.9584:

Simply playing more isn’t rewarding. Longterm enjoyment in SPvP comes from discovering and understanding. Running mindlessly from point to point or spamming buttons until something dies won’t cut it in the long run! Not for the player who has been logging in since August last year to play against other players in this game.

It’s one thing to ask for an additional game mode. It’s another to ask for an existing game mode to be abolished. I’m not disputing that hotjoin has flaws, I just don’t see why those flaws merit its removal when some people like it as it is.

leave hotjoin and add torunemants nonrate to let ppl learn the game.

+1000 to these

Yeah i am sorry for the <<leet>> part , but i hate most ppl here that offend PvE-hotjoin ppl these past 10 months (not u) and in the other hand beg the developers to move them to tPvP .

Killthehealersffs.8940:

uberkingkong.8041:

People should be farming glory in tournament pvp wins, not free glory handed to you for being the 6th person to smack a downed guy.

I wouldn’t mind hotjoin being where it is at now if.
They limit cap the glory in hotjoin to 200.
A bonus if you win hotjoin.

Heres the trap the old geezers have created :P

Hotjoins helps u rank faster , vs Tournaments helps u to increase ur QP points or Rating .
Rank faster vs more Rating .
Personal motivation(grind) vs Peronal motivation(feel leet) .
2 different carrot on the sticks for 2 different kind of ppl :P

Unless your in/been the top 10 on leaderboards, hotjoin will make you feel leet because of titles, like ravager, mauderer, etc which comes along with rank.

Since people cannot see if your rated 150 on leaderboards (in game) nobody cares, since people see hotjoin heroes doing shark emote and see the title ravager, they look at you like you know what your doing and your really really good.

Hence why like I said rank points limit in hotjoins to 200 (if you win you get win bonus which stacks on 200 glory) and it will solve all problems PERIOD.

You want rank points play tpvp
You want leaderboard rank play tpvp
If you want to play around and test skills and get better at pvp, if you want glory (not rank points) play hotjoins.

And you wonder why tpvp has hardly anybody playing it…

I can tell you for a fact krito has never been in top 10 leaderboards, he has the most wins on the leaderboard, people that don’t follow leaderboards will never know hes leet because he has no title to show for and he cant even do the shark emote, and to me having the most wins on the leaderboard is an accomplishment, he may not be the best but hes won more battles than anyone else.

Also the top 5 leaderboard players cant even do shark emote, how can you feel leet by being the best but a hotjoin hero everytime he sees you puts a shark emote on you while all you can do back is a tiger emote.

Like Cripseke, I don’t know who that is, that’s not some overhyped player that everyone knows, but he/she is ranked 4th on leaderboard. If he/she did a tiger emote I’d be like whatever, hotjoin hero does shark emote I’d be like “hey this guy must be on leaderboard, hey he must be very good player” but in reality all he does is play hotjoin and tag downed people for rank points all day long.

However if you limited rank point cap in hotjoins, you wouldn’t be seeing these rank 64 not on leaderboard type players.

Here is img of rank 64 in a 65% solo que match I was playing. See hes not on a team, they got dominated, you’d think he be good but he aint. But in reality, in the game if he goes around showing his shark emote, his ravager title, everyone thinks “hey this guy is leet”.

And the only reason people are fighting me is because they are ranking up fast in hotjoins and doesn’t want a rank point limit cap in hotjoins. I’m totally fine with people farming glory in hotjoins, but farming rank is unacceptable to me. However if everyone in whole universe is doing it I’ll do it but I will continue to fight against this on the forums. if a opportunity exists don’t fight it, take it. But for the sake of the game, there needs to be a limit on rank points in hotjoins. Because you got all these people farming rank points and all it does to newplayers is discourage them from playing the game because they are the ones getting farmed as you can see in img 2.

Small team hotjoin is pretty fun (<5 people per side), I don’t want to see that removed.

As a solo player, I like to be able to hop into a match in less than a few minutes and leave when I feel I’ve played enough – hotjoin offers me this option.

I do agree though that 8v8 hotjoin can be pretty silly at times.

Currently, hotjoin is the only place where good fighting builds that aren’t necessarily viable for tPvP can still thrive. I would much rather see them cultivate their atrocious glory scoring system over removing the only mode that still promotes variety of build choice.

8v8 hotjoin, however, is an abomination and I would never argue against seeing it completely gone, there’s zero skill involved in zerg play, and while I know it’s good to ween some new players into the game, it actually ends up being counter productive, because any player that learns to play in 8v8 just has to learn how to play all over again once they try to play tPvP or sPvP 5v5.

8 vs 8 or 10 vs 10 “hot join” is working as intended.

please dun fix what is not broken.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

8 vs 8 or 10 vs 10 “hot join” is working as intended.

please dun fix what is not broken.

Then it’s intended to turn any would be PvPers completely off of actual PvP.

Fifa 13… you think 11 v 11 is a match? Try 30 v 30! It’s even BETTER!

If you think hockey is great as it is, you’ve haven’t seen 25 v 25 yet, it’s even better.

I could continue but the joke’s not funny. Neither is 8v8, it’s terrible.

tl; dr
8 vs 8 or 10 vs 10 “hot joins” is “casual” sPvP
team sPvP or tournament is “non casual” sPvP
both caters to a different group of players.

you cannot force casual players to become not casual players.
did you forget that guild wars 2 is a casual online game?

Stof.9584:

- Glory farming = zerging.

strength in numbers! working as intended!

- No one defends points (key aspect of the conquest gametype).

well, maybe true for most of the time, people sometimes people still do defend points.

then again maybe they realized glory comes in faster if they flip the point.
again, casual farming glory sPvP, working as intended.

- No teamplay: general disregard for allies (doesn’t affect personal glory gain).

though i noticed that most people will not help allies, revive allies, still, sometimes i did experience a much needed revive etc.

then again, people zerging together can be considered working together and certainly is not “no teamplay” or “general disregard for allies” the way i see it.

- Random joining / leaving affects teamspirit and social motivation.

it is a casual form of sPvP, for people to have some fun fighting each other, killing each other, scoring points.

did you play counter strike, team fortress 2 before?
guild wars 2 sPvP 8 vs 8 / 10 vs 10 is the same thing.
casual team PvP.

counter strike tournaments are 5 vs 5 though.

- Lack of educational aids <> initial learning curve of the gametype.

well, casual sPvP is different from tournament sPvP anyway.

- Varrying skilllevels makes it unenjoyable for both new and veteran players.

players need to train in tournament, for tournament sPvP.
hotjoins is casual sPvP, not for training purposes.

- Autobalancing restricts playing with friends.

while this may be true to some extent, what is stopping you from getting 10 friends together and find an empty 10 players 5 vs 5 room?

- Gap between Hotjoin and Tournaments on multiple fronts.

hotjoin = casual
tournament = not casual

this is working as intended.
not everyone enjoys tournament or not casual type of sPvP.

- Map rotation: no one likes Raid of the Capricorn.

not really. i like Raid of the Capricorn.
i am sure there are others who like it too.

- 8v8 is an unplayable mess of AOE and spamming.

not playable for you perhaps, but i still see 8 vs 8 games going on every day.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

tl; dr
8 vs 8 or 10 vs 10 “hot joins” is “casual” sPvP
team sPvP or tournament is “non casual” sPvP
both caters to a different group of players.

you cannot force casual players to become not casual players.
did you forget that guild wars 2 is a casual online game?

Stof.9584:

- Glory farming = zerging.

strength in numbers! working as intended!

- No one defends points (key aspect of the conquest gametype).

well, maybe true for most of the time, people sometimes people still do defend points.

then again maybe they realized glory comes in faster if they flip the point.
again, casual farming glory sPvP, working as intended.

- No teamplay: general disregard for allies (doesn’t affect personal glory gain).

though i noticed that most people will not help allies, revive allies, still, sometimes i did experience a much needed revive etc.

then again, people zerging together can be considered working together and certainly is not “no teamplay” or “general disregard for allies” the way i see it.

- Random joining / leaving affects teamspirit and social motivation.

it is a casual form of sPvP, for people to have some fun fighting each other, killing each other, scoring points.

did you play counter strike, team fortress 2 before?
guild wars 2 sPvP 8 vs 8 / 10 vs 10 is the same thing.
casual team PvP.

counter strike tournaments are 5 vs 5 though.

- Lack of educational aids <> initial learning curve of the gametype.

well, casual sPvP is different from tournament sPvP anyway.

- Varrying skilllevels makes it unenjoyable for both new and veteran players.

players need to train in tournament, for tournament sPvP.
hotjoins is casual sPvP, not for training purposes.

- Autobalancing restricts playing with friends.

while this may be true to some extent, what is stopping you from getting 10 friends together and find an empty 10 players 5 vs 5 room?

- Gap between Hotjoin and Tournaments on multiple fronts.

hotjoin = casual
tournament = not casual

this is working as intended.
not everyone enjoys tournament or not casual type of sPvP.

- Map rotation: no one likes Raid of the Capricorn.

not really. i like Raid of the Capricorn.
i am sure there are others who like it too.

- 8v8 is an unplayable mess of AOE and spamming.

not playable for you perhaps, but i still see 8 vs 8 games going on every day.

And they are all terrible.