Guild Wars 2

hello, this is a second episode of our new series “How Is This Not Broken” where we talk about broken thief mechanics and invite fellow thieves to explain themselves! so let’s begin.

why is it ok for a thief to have an untraited 4s fear, a fear better than the necro’s, with the click of one button?

stolen fear makes bunker necros cry

Long cast time
That’s all

Can I steal death shroud instead?

Because Necros are broken, and it’d be balanced if it only feared necros for 3 seconds and everyone else for interrupt utility only.

Stiv.1820:

Can I steal death shroud instead?

mmmm no. how about a 1.25 sec single-target fear?

Schwahrheit.4203:

Because Necros are broken, and it’d be balanced if it only feared necros for 3 seconds and everyone else for interrupt utility only.

why would it be balanced for them to fear a necro for longer than a necro can fear them?

hackks.3687:

Stiv.1820:

Can I steal death shroud instead?

mmmm no. how about a 1.25 sec single-target fear?

Make that instant cast and you have a deal.

Gettin stuff done!

Another options is to give the thief a buff that indicates what they have stolen. That way you know they have a fear. If you are 1 on 1 and are the necro that shouldn’t be an issue though. The long cast time is easy to dodge if you know they have it.

Still this change would just help in general because stolen abilities hold on forever and it’s no fun to get hit by something you would have no clue they have.

Stiv.1820:

hackks.3687:

Stiv.1820:

Can I steal death shroud instead?

mmmm no. how about a 1.25 sec single-target fear?

Make that instant cast and you have a deal.

Gettin stuff done!

deal! let’s make it happen!

Jumper.9482:

Wtf how is Darius ult not broken it does 2x as much dmg as true than Garen’s ult AND resets on kill wtf.

except that playing a thief with some skill is almost godmode already. and we’re not talking ults, we’re talking low CD cc that lasts 4 seconds.

How is the fact that a necro literally standing in one spot spamming aoes on a point able to kill an entire team by themselves in a matter of seconds not broken?

How is the fact that if that necro is not dealt with immediately, your team will lose the team fight 100% of the time not broken?

I wonder why every team is now running at least one necro……?

Also, I would much rather steal your off global cooldown, single target instant fear over this clunky AOE fear that can be easily interrupted and lost forever.

thieves already have enough going for them, a 4 second fear is absolutely excessive. is daze not enough?

I rather think that Necro’s fear is underpowered. I kinda lol’d at the 1 sec fears they have.

Teabaker.9524:

I rather think that Necro’s fear is underpowered. I kinda lol’d at the 1 sec fears they have.

necro fears are great as they are. theyre short interrupts and off of global CD. the thief one is just garbage, cuz for 4 seconds, the entire team can pound on you.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skull_Fear
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death_Shroud

Maybe just to add a button to Death Shroud “kill thief”?

Payneful.7934:

How is the fact that a necro literally standing in one spot spamming aoes on a point able to kill an entire team by themselves in a matter of seconds not broken?

How is the fact that if that necro is not dealt with immediately, your team will lose the team fight 100% of the time not broken?

I wonder why every team is now running at least one necro……?

Also, I would much rather steal your off global cooldown, single target instant fear over this clunky AOE fear that can be easily interrupted and lost forever.

you don’t know how to not stand on wells or marks?

easy way to kill necros: chain CC. they’ll never get to cast a thing

hackks.3687:

Payneful.7934:

How is the fact that a necro literally standing in one spot spamming aoes on a point able to kill an entire team by themselves in a matter of seconds not broken?

How is the fact that if that necro is not dealt with immediately, your team will lose the team fight 100% of the time not broken?

I wonder why every team is now running at least one necro……?

Also, I would much rather steal your off global cooldown, single target instant fear over this clunky AOE fear that can be easily interrupted and lost forever.

you don’t know how to not stand on wells or marks?

easy way to kill necros: chain CC. they’ll never get to cast a thing

Yes, let us all jump off the point while the other team caps it. Good strategy. I can really tell you know what you’re talking about.

PS: easy way to kill any class: chain CC. they’ll never get to cast a thing. Something a necro is very good at.

Everything about thief is op!!!1

Holy kitten get better and stop complaining.

Payneful.7934:

hackks.3687:

Payneful.7934:

How is the fact that a necro literally standing in one spot spamming aoes on a point able to kill an entire team by themselves in a matter of seconds not broken?

How is the fact that if that necro is not dealt with immediately, your team will lose the team fight 100% of the time not broken?

I wonder why every team is now running at least one necro……?

Also, I would much rather steal your off global cooldown, single target instant fear over this clunky AOE fear that can be easily interrupted and lost forever.

you don’t know how to not stand on wells or marks?

easy way to kill necros: chain CC. they’ll never get to cast a thing

Yes, let us all jump off the point while the other team caps it. Good strategy. I can really tell you know what you’re talking about.

PS: easy way to kill any class: chain CC. they’ll never get to cast a thing. Something a necro is very good at.

Last I checked wells only lasted 5 sec, capping a point took 10 sec…. but, hey what do I know, right?

PS: oh right, I forgot those 2 sec fears, the immobilize, and the daze are putting guardians, engis, and eles out of business in the heavy CC dept….

can we stop pretending like you know how necros work now? clearly you’re just having some L2P issues, no?

Dude. You’re just flame baiting now. Can’t even use Skull Fear without an enemy necro around.

Payneful.7934:

How is the fact that a necro literally standing in one spot spamming aoes on a point able to kill an entire team by themselves in a matter of seconds not broken?

How is the fact that if that necro is not dealt with immediately, your team will lose the team fight 100% of the time not broken?

I wonder why every team is now running at least one necro……?

Caltrops and Uncatchable.
Thieves don’t even need to spam skills in order to kill an entire group.

The topic is back to the point again.
Let’s focus on 3s fear now.

My eyes are playing tricks on me. I need to see an eye doctor as soon as possible. I could swear that i saw a guy (hackks) telling mr payneful to learn to play. And to add insult to injury i see another guy (sorrow) also calling out mr payneful. This dude is well over two hundred qualifier points by now, but still some randoms are teaching this dude how to play the game. Ive seen it all. Im flabbergasted.

Edit: Skull fear is far from being overpowered, its totally situational, like all steal skills. It depends on having necros around, for example. And it takes quite a while to cast.

Payneful.7934:

How is the fact that a necro literally standing in one spot spamming aoes on a point able to kill an entire team by themselves in a matter of seconds not broken?

How is the fact that if that necro is not dealt with immediately, your team will lose the team fight 100% of the time not broken?

I wonder why every team is now running at least one necro……?

Also, I would much rather steal your off global cooldown, single target instant fear over this clunky AOE fear that can be easily interrupted and lost forever.

I assume you’re talking about a 0 toughness power/condi build with thief rune 6-piece, targetable wells trait, and people that are too busy tunnel-visioning a guardian on the cap point when a necro is on the ledge. Necro will face-roll marks 1-4 on staff, drop their 2 damaging wells: Suffering and Corruption, swap to scepter/dagger and drop a 2 then 5.

This necro can’t 1v1 anyone, has no points in blood for +vit, siphoning, regen, nor well recharge reduction, no points in soul reaping, etc. and a ranger can shred them in 3 seconds with quickness. One scorpion wire, binding blade, into the void, or spectral grasp can instantly counter this type of glass necro. The necro isn’t going to stealth anywhere.

Thief on a ledge spamming cluster bomb is slightly less effective due to lack of conditions, not lack of damage.

You already know this, Payne.

There is a reason why almost every team has a necro, and why that necro is the priority target for every team. Team fights generally come down to who can protect their necro the best. This is the NA meta right now.

Hackks: The Necros I’m talking about are using scepter/dagger and staff with 2 fears, 2 chills, a cripple, and a mark that can transfer any cripples or chills put on the necro back to them which is more than enough CC to screw over someone’s day.

Sorrow: Caltrops by itself will never kill an entire team, especially a good one.

Fynd: You seem to think the necro is all alone in a team fight. It is your teams job to help protect the necro if he is being attacked. A necro should not be 1v1ing anything. A ranger with quickness will “shred” everything, including a bunker guardian. Thief on a ledge spamming cluster bomb is not nearly as effective as necro spamming his AOE because of how long the travel time on cluster bomb is. To be really effective, the thief has to run into the fray and spam cluster bomb in melee range which is dangerous.

Back on topic: The fear stolen from necros has a very long cast time and can be interrupted. Once it’s interrupted it is lost until it can be stolen again which is generally 39ish seconds for most of the thief builds being used right now. I would much rather steal the 1 second off-global cooldown, single target fear that necros get in death shroud.

Payneful.7934:

There is a reason why almost every team has a necro, and why that necro is the priority target for every team. Team fights generally come down to who can protect their necro the best. This is the NA meta right now.

Hackks: The Necros I’m talking about are using scepter/dagger and staff with 2 fears, 2 chills, a cripple, and a mark that can transfer any cripples or chills put on the necro back to them which is more than enough CC to screw over someone’s day.

Sorrow: Caltrops by itself will never kill an entire team, especially a good one.

Fynd: You seem to think the necro is all alone in a team fight. It is your teams job to help protect the necro if he is being attacked. A necro should not be 1v1ing anything. A ranger with quickness will “shred” everything, including a bunker guardian. Thief on a ledge spamming cluster bomb is not nearly as effective as necro spamming his AOE because of how long the travel time on cluster bomb is. To be really effective, the thief has to run into the fray and spam cluster bomb in melee range which is dangerous.

Back on topic: The fear stolen from necros has a very long cast time and can be interrupted. Once it’s interrupted it is lost until it can be stolen again which is generally 39ish seconds for most of the thief builds being used right now. I would much rather steal the 1 second off-global cooldown, single target fear that necros get in death shroud.

My point is that you’re talking about what’s fair, and I explained to you why it’s fair with counterpoints to your off-topic argument.

Skull fear is still the longest duration AoE fear in the game, and it can be cast from stealth without revealing the thief. You can actually hold on to the skull until your next steal is up, so you can just save a skull and cascade two-in-a-row on a necro for 6 seconds of consecutive fear.

I don’t think it’s terribly overpowered, but it would be a bold-faced lie for me to say it’s not overpowered slightly on a burst class, especially considering that this compounds with basilisk venom and guarantees burst on a necro that even has 2 stun breaks.

Seriously man, picking through every single thief skill you dislike and posting on the forums how its “broken” is way slower than just asking Anet to remove thief from the game.

Make no mistake, that is what you’re asking – but instead of just saying “please redesign thieves from the ground up”, you’re attempting to make a case against every skill you don’t like, until (assuming you were successful), thieves would be unplayable…requiring a redesign from the ground up.

The first time this happened to me when I was playing necro: “wow, didn’t know I had that in me.”

In all seriousness though, they should swap stolen fear with doom. Would love to hear about that on the forums. At least they fixed the bug were you could do a 20s fear with it.

Eduardo.4675:

Edit: Skull fear is far from being overpowered, its totally situational, like all steal skills. It depends on having necros around, for example. And it takes quite a while to cast.

lol, how is stolen fear situational? it’s useful is every situation, and necros are plentiful.

Numot.3965:

The first time this happened to me when I was playing necro: “wow, didn’t know I had that in me.”

In all seriousness though, they should swap stolen fear with doom. Would love to hear about that on the forums. At least they fixed the bug were you could do a 20s fear with it.

this exactly. i dont mind thieves stealing doom. but 4 seconds is basically certain death for the affected target, if the team is coordinated.

imagine how it makes necro bunkers feel to be feared off their point for 4 seconds

nerva.7940:

Numot.3965:

The first time this happened to me when I was playing necro: “wow, didn’t know I had that in me.”

In all seriousness though, they should swap stolen fear with doom. Would love to hear about that on the forums. At least they fixed the bug were you could do a 20s fear with it.

this exactly. i dont mind thieves stealing doom. but 4 seconds is basically certain death for the affected target, if the team is coordinated.

imagine how it makes necro bunkers feel to be feared off their point for 4 seconds

Banish must be overpowered too. Right?

Payneful.7934:

nerva.7940:

Numot.3965:

The first time this happened to me when I was playing necro: “wow, didn’t know I had that in me.”

In all seriousness though, they should swap stolen fear with doom. Would love to hear about that on the forums. At least they fixed the bug were you could do a 20s fear with it.

this exactly. i dont mind thieves stealing doom. but 4 seconds is basically certain death for the affected target, if the team is coordinated.

imagine how it makes necro bunkers feel to be feared off their point for 4 seconds

Banish must be overpowered too. Right?

Mace Head Crack > Banish

Longest daze in the game; see the pattern here ?

Just delete the entire class already. There happy? Im a thief, I will steal your stuff, and thats just the way it is. Get used to it. It took you a weeks pay to buy that fear and I come along and steal it in a few seconds? Haha. Exlain yourselves thieves LoL.

Your entire question is pointless as thieves dont care. Does the thief who steals your car in real life care? What you need to do is buy yourself some “omg that thief stole my fear” insurance and next time you will get some silvers to buy a new fear. Better yet next time take better care of your fear.

Slither Shade.4782:

Just delete the entire class already. There happy? Im a thief, I will steal your stuff, and thats just the way it is. Get used to it. It took you a weeks pay to buy that fear and I come along and steal it in a few seconds? Haha. Exlain yourselves thieves LoL.

Your entire question is pointless as thieves dont care. Does the thief who steals your car in real life care? What you need to do is buy yourself some “omg that thief stole my fear” insurance and next time you will get some silvers to buy a new fear. Better yet next time take better care of your fear.

The point is if you’re stealing what a necro doesn’t have. Necro’s longest active ability fear is 1 second duration and thieves get a 3 second fear. No one is trying to remove the fear from the steal, the desire is for parity.

The analogy here is that if you were a thief IRL and you stole my 32" TV and brought it home, all of a sudden it becomes a 96" TV. Cool stuff.

nerva.7940:

hello, this is a second episode of our new series “How Is This Not Broken” where we talk about broken thief mechanics and invite fellow thieves to explain themselves! so let’s begin.

why is it ok for a thief to have an untraited 4s fear, a fear better than the necro’s, with the click of one button?

stolen fear makes bunker necros cry

Same guy that was complaining about caltrops and that being broken. You are seriously not helping at all. Apparently all you want to do is complain about thieves so maybe you should talk about this with a wall because know one wants to hear it.

Payneful.7934:

Banish must be overpowered too. Right?

nope. it’s hella easy to dodge and it’s a part of an entire weapon set. a 4s fear is utterly broken and if u dont see that then youre obviously maining a thief.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Same guy that was complaining about caltrops and that being broken. You are seriously not helping at all. Apparently all you want to do is complain about thieves so maybe you should talk about this with a wall because know one wants to hear it.

thats a lot of “thief” in your sig buddy. sorry im pointing out broken game mechanics. reasonable thieves and many others agree with what im saying in the caltrops thread. some good discussion going on there, maybe you should follow suit or not post?

sorry my mistake ill remove the fear immediately.. obviously as a thief i have to explain why i have this… because it was totally my decision. personally i dont like steal at all. its just a useful gap closer, that gives you occasionally useful abilities depending on the situation/build u use. granted a aoe fear is nice, but its not always that useful. and while ur holding onto it to try to find some use for it, you could be actually using steal. it does make me laugh that necros dont get the best fears though, personally i think its justified to reduce the lenght on this 1, but lets get one thing straight, thiefs are not the most op class in the game, neither are they the easiest to play, or most annoying to deal with. they are just probably the most common glass cannon build.

Reason why thieves have a 3s fear and nerco’s don’t is because they stole it…There! I solved the big mystery.

Slither Shade.4782:

Your entire question is pointless as thieves dont care. Does the thief who steals your car in real life care? What you need to do is buy yourself some “omg that thief stole my fear” insurance and next time you will get some silvers to buy a new fear. Better yet next time take better care of your fear.

Thieves do care indeed. They know how OP they are. Sure you’re afraid of the incoming nerfs.

Look the thing is deadly arts line of thief has +condition duration in it. most thiefs pick at least 15 points in it. meaning that fear as condition gets a considerate buff. If it wasnt for many thiefs picking that trait line it would be quite weaker.

And necros got fear from traits for 2 seconds boosted to 3 seconds with extra traits if im right. Thats exactly what thief steals.

3 sec fear is still longer than any Necro fear, even with traits, runes, and + cond duration.

it makes no sense for them to steal something that wasn’t there to begin with.

hackks.3687:

3 sec fear is still longer than any Necro fear, even with traits, runes, and + cond duration.

it makes no sense for them to steal something that wasn’t there to begin with.

Thief steals daze from guardian too, or ethereal field from engineer. Maybe he is smart enough to use items, in the way the previous owner wasnt capable of doing ? Like adding spice of thief skills to it ?

I chuckled a bit at people telling Payne he is having L2P issues.

Here’s one for the thieves though:
Rank your favourite stolen abilities.

Don’t worry about x being better than y in z situation, just rank the ones that have the most effect most of the time.

Mammoth.1975:

I chuckled a bit at people telling Payne he is having L2P issues.

Oh c’mon! How often do Necros get Thieves posting on the boards about how OP Necros are? We gotta jump on those! They’re few and far between!

He knows how good he is. He doesn’t need validation from forum-warriors. I, for one, thank him for his charity. <3

Mammoth.1975:

I chuckled a bit at people telling Payne he is having L2P issues.

Here’s one for the thieves though:
Rank your favourite stolen abilities.

Don’t worry about x being better than y in z situation, just rank the ones that have the most effect most of the time.

Nr1. Tuft from thief(extra invis on demand, for extra backstab or unexpected runaway)
Nr2.Necro fear(awsome to do some damage while they run, or fear bunker of point)
Nr3. Guardian mace crack… 4 second daze is amazing counter to anything, dps the kitten out of target while hes dazed)
Nr4. Elemenalists chill (long chill messes up a lot of classes if applied at right time)
Nr5. Mesmers ectoplasm(all boons for 10 seconds(1 stack of them))
Nr6. Rangers plant tree skill( AoE condition removal + regeneration)
Nr7. Engineers trow gunk (1 random condition each second + chaos armor or confusions depending on finisher we do while inside it)
Nr8. Warriors axe spin (… kind of useless since any smart person will dps the kitten out of me while im using it. Stealing this item versus melee heavy team will ruin your own day. The recent fix beeing able to cancel it made it a lil better though)

That would be my personal list

As a law abiding necro you abide by the posted fear limit of second while on your way home from the office. As a thief I feel no such obligation so when I steal that sucker its getting redlined to 4 times the posted limit. Just be satisfied that someday while you are playing with your children or loving your spouse I will be working in the prison kitchen making soup, baked beans, and tossed salads for my fellow inmates.

Regards.

Mammoth.1975:

I chuckled a bit at people telling Payne he is having L2P issues.

Here’s one for the thieves though:
Rank your favourite stolen abilities.

Don’t worry about x being better than y in z situation, just rank the ones that have the most effect most of the time.

1. Consume Ectoplasm or Head Crack
2. Consume Ectoplasm or Head Crack
   #3-Blinding Tuft
   #4-Fear
   #5-Ice Shard
   #6-The Ranger Tree
   #7-Throw Gunk
   #8-Whirling Axe (was number 1 or 2 with the evade)

Obviously some are better at different times and places, these have just been the most common cases.

Mammoth.1975:

I chuckled a bit at people telling Payne he is having L2P issues.

Here’s one for the thieves though:
Rank your favourite stolen abilities.

Don’t worry about x being better than y in z situation, just rank the ones that have the most effect most of the time.

Depends on the situation.

Team fight: Necro Fear – Used to push people off of there ledges(Keep/CT)
2v1 or 1v1: Guardian Mace Head Crack. I am bad at using this one though
Trying to run: Thief/Mesmer
Stopping a res: Necro Fear / Engi Muck Pool

I would probably say Mesmer if the ability was instant.

If stolen fear lowered in fear time, definitely reduce the cast time. Takes forever to cast
Edit: Typo

It does not take long at all to cast and it give 3 seconds of AoE fear, broken.

It’s actually almost 4 seconds if i remember right. 3.75 or something.
Add it to the list of things that need to be nerfed, along with 4 second guardian stolen daze, and steal’s mug damage, kthnx.

Payneful.7934:

How is the fact that a necro literally standing in one spot spamming aoes on a point able to kill an entire team by themselves in a matter of seconds not broken?

How is the fact that if that necro is not dealt with immediately, your team will lose the team fight 100% of the time not broken?

I wonder why every team is now running at least one necro……?

Also, I would much rather steal your off global cooldown, single target instant fear over this clunky AOE fear that can be easily interrupted and lost forever.

You can have the single target weak as hell fear, it’s only mildly helpful because it’s one of probably 2 stun breaks a necro will have, and without any form of mobility stun breaks are life. Also if that necro managed to kill a whole team that bunched up on a point it’s cause your entire team was terribad spread out. If you honestly think anything a necro has is broken go play one for a bit… I have never once felt over powered or even powerful as a necro, I have out played some scrubs but that’s it. Any half competent player who’s specced properly for pvp has at best run away from me as a necro or often killed me.