Guild Wars 2

Curious, how often do you not play meta for SPvP?

I never play meta builds. But that’s me. What about you?

Why would you not play meta builds? Have fun being mediocre forever I guess.

Depends how you define “meta”
That term is tossed around too lightly nowadays

Examples:

Cele/Rifle Engi or D/D Ele are true metas, unquestionably dominant for their class type
Then Power Rangers are considered meta but not the only viable option for Rangers

Elitist.8701:

Why would you not play meta builds?

Because some meta-builds are less viable in uncoordinated teams than non-meta builds are.

Elitist.8701:

Why would you not play meta builds? Have fun being mediocre forever I guess.

The only reason that the meta builds is the only “viable” way to play is imo because all the 4 other meta builds that all strengthen each other. If you create one non meta build within a team of 4 meta builds you’ll probably be “mediocre” as you say.

But what if every player in the team created new builds that were not meta but,as the meta,strengthen and support each other?

Do you know what I’m trying to say? xD

and to the OP:

I never play meta,I create my own builds. I’ll think ahead of what I might face and build towards that. Since most of the people use meta builds i’ts incredibly easy to predict the opponent and build against them.

Meta is another word for Popularity. Yes, there are builds that will “sync more often” with which ever team you join. You can still go off meta with your own specific team comp and make it work, but that can prove more difficult than the current meta builds.

If everyone played the meta, the meta would never change.

To my knowledge ive never played meta, my 3 fave classes

hambow warrior 4-0-6-4-0 with stances and 1 might shout

staff ele 2-0-2-6-4 with cantrips

condi ranger 2-0-6-1-5 with survial skills and 1 fire trap

So i guess ive always been a average player since i never changed it

For me it just depends if the meta build is fun.

For example:
I like cele rifle engi, so I play it
dd ele is boring, so i got with d/f or s/f

I almost never play full meta for anything, as I’m mainly a soloQ kinda guy and need to be self sufficient. I typically follow about 50 – 75% of the recommended builds (I stick to the traits pretty closely, but use whatever runes, sigils and skills I feel like).

Elitist.8701:

Why would you not play meta builds? Have fun being mediocre forever I guess.

Because you dislike playing the same gimmick as everyone else.
Because you enjoy the challenge of facing Meta build and winning despite not being Meta.
Because you like to come up with your own builds based on your playing exp.
…

I just play MM. I’ve played it when its bad, played it when its good, and played it even after it got nerfed just because it won a 2v2 tournament.

If you don’t know how to play a profession or pvp you should use a meta build. Trying to be “unique” or “creative” using your own build when you have no idea how your profession works in pvp is just bad. And I see people trying to do this. Sure you can beat someone with non-meta but that doesn’t mean it is good. Maybe the other person is just bad even with meta build.

I can only speak for Thief and I don’t play PvP THAT much, but I found the term “meta” to be sort of deceiving for GW2 because, atleast for Thief, there have rarely been other options. I quit playing actively about a year ago, but at that point I had been discussing on guru and trying viable Thief builds for months. There were simply certain weapons which worked better with the toolset of thief and not much has changed. I’ve played a lot of S/P and P/D, but they simply don’t complement the strengths of thieves and don’t make up for their weaknessess as well as S/D or D/P. Even the utilities and most of the traits have remained the same. I still enjoy S/P from time to time, but there is simply no reason to take it over S/D in PvP.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Depends how you define “meta”
That term is tossed around too lightly nowadays

Examples:

Cele/Rifle Engi or D/D Ele are true metas, unquestionably dominant for their class type
Then Power Rangers are considered meta but not the only viable option for Rangers

I don’t think you’re right about that since your example is bad. Condi engineer is way more effective right now than power ranger. It’s almost on par with cele rifle, while power ranger is nowhere as strong as condi survival ranger, which is considered “meta”. So meta does not mean that’s the only viable option the profession has, it just means that said builds are popular.

Also, at which point does my build become non-meta? If I play a celestial engineer with bomb kit, bomb traits and EG, am I still meta? If I play a meditation guardian without the hammer, am I still meta? If I play an Executioner d/p thief, am I still meta? The line is thin.

It’s alright to go not meta as long as you have a build that is somewhat viable. The main thing is having fun, but at the same time being somewhat useful to your team to ensure that they don’t rage at you. I play quad signet ele that isn’t meta and made it viable enough, and that takes more thought than d/d ele.

i playedwhati enjoy which is gs/lb war most of the time.

Meta builds are meta for a reason but…

Elitist.8701:

Why would you not play meta builds? Have fun being mediocre forever I guess.

That is an awful way to look at it. Being creative and having fun is a thing after all.

I typically go for counter-meta. What is the current meta good at? What’s it weak to? Then you build around that weakness. For example, Cele Engi is really weak to constant CC, and D/D Ele is also weak to CC after swapping to Water. My version of Skullcracker does good against Cele Engi, d/d Ele, and S/D Teef. Shatter Mes it depends on if you can avoid missing a single Skull Crack or force them you use Blink and Distortion early.

I run meta depending how hardcore i wanted to go. If I want to win easily, yea to go cele engi but if i’m having a good time i go condi p/s. So yea, I just have fun. My main is mesmer and it’s not meta atm so I don’t run it too much since thieves are so OP atm but I enjoy how the game is right now and how skill is the true factor to beating people in average tier unranked queue’s.

i play meta occasionally, but i play my own builds most often. regardless, my builds are simmilar to meta in that my enji is still cele 2kit and my warrior runs healing shouts. i find playing builds taliored to my playstyle is more effective, however for what they aim to accomplish the meta builds rock. my pal who is a excellent warrior still plays axe bow, it’s still real good.

Never. I hate the meta with a burning passion

Engi here.
I rarely if ever play the meta, and then only 2kit with bombs. I simply don’t like nades.

Zerker on the other hand – high risk/reward – is something I love so it’s only natural that I avoid bruiser-builds and rather go for zerker s/d.

Well I guess it depends. Mesmer is considered borderline/not-meta at all. So I guess you could say I never play the meta. However if you are going off of what is “meta” for mesmers I am a hardcore shatter mes fan, and always will be. So I never play the meta but I always play the meta.

Elitist.8701:

Why would you not play meta builds? Have fun being mediocre forever I guess.

Implying that Meta makes everyone good? :v

Tao.5096:

Elitist.8701:

Why would you not play meta builds? Have fun being mediocre forever I guess.

Implying that Meta makes everyone good? :v

But the reverse isn’t good anyways. People with less experience shouldn’t kitten themselves when their skill level isn’t there. Running something that they made up on their own or some odd build isn’t going to help them. Might as well play something that is proven to work and build up skill.

CuRtoKy.8576:

Tao.5096:

Elitist.8701:

Why would you not play meta builds? Have fun being mediocre forever I guess.

Implying that Meta makes everyone good? :v

But the reverse isn’t good anyways. People with less experience shouldn’t kitten themselves when their skill level isn’t there. Running something that they made up on their own or some odd build isn’t going to help them. Might as well play something that is proven to work and build up skill.

OP didn’t point out to whom this question is specifically forwarded, so I assumed it’s about experienced players.
Therefore my answer to Elitist’s post was like that.
You on the other hand think, inexperienced players should run meta.

In my opinion, inexperienced players shouldn’t land in the same queue as experienced players – they’re ruining experience for those who did their homework.
Not that I have something against them, but I’m against current matchmaking which in fact made quite a number of PvP community being disgusted with it and I understand them.
Therefore, META build, which in fact in this game, in PvP mode is nothing, but nothing more than just a silly build that is used by some overfanboyed streamers and ESL players.
For newbies, META build may be something which is more like a starting point for them, instead of something that does succeed.

Calling nonMeta builds mediocre is also silly.
Uncountable amount of times where a nonMeta which should make people mediocre, has rekt Meta users is a fact.

The only reason why I am so against using that Meta term in every possible situation, and call it the best thing possible, is only because it does kill brain cells and make people believe that build diversity is non-existent – many people already behave like that and talk like that, which for me is quite funny, because after all that time they spent playing, their knowledge is comparable with newbie who just started Gw2.

Hence, I’ll repeat – Those popular builds aren’t bad, but sticking to it like a glue isn’t a way to go. And amount of players that use them forever and never improve, or are plainly in stagnation is very high.

CuRtoKy.8576:

Tao.5096:

Elitist.8701:

Why would you not play meta builds? Have fun being mediocre forever I guess.

Implying that Meta makes everyone good? :v

But the reverse isn’t good anyways. People with less experience shouldn’t kitten themselves when their skill level isn’t there. Running something that they made up on their own or some odd build isn’t going to help them. Might as well play something that is proven to work and build up skill.

Pretty much this.

If you are a new players and hadn’t grasp the system of the game properly, running on randon builds will just drag you down.

Everyone at some point will modify their builds to suit their needs. But first they need to learn how to use their class properly.

Oh and btw. I don’t run meta on my main. I do run meta on news classes that I am not used to play yet.

This game has been extremely boring for years now! Conquestconquestconquestconquest! The few times I log on, it’s to play silly builds that still can win! Especially when you beat known pretty good players! #gadgetmeta for life! #beefcheeser #killshot #venoms

Elitist.8701:

Why would you not play meta builds? Have fun being mediocre forever I guess.

having fun, groundbreaking in a video game

Knighthonor.4061:

Curious, how often do you not play meta for SPvP?

I never play meta builds. But that’s me. What about you?

Everyday, no one should be predictable in pvp and net deck off metabattle completely.

I play a Mesmer. I’m not in the Meta. Yes I’m salty.

Jasher.6580:

I play a Mesmer. I’m not in the Meta. Yes I’m salty.

HERE HERE! Stamps feet and bumps fist

I always play OE builds so I play eSports builds not Meta builds

The only time I play meta-builds is if I’m in a team that wants me to. And even then I don’t like to play it.

I tried to read all the replies and got a brain aneurysm, the first thing anybody has to work in is watching minimap (playing soloq alleviates this problem greatly [to some extent, since soloq doesnt exist]) if you can rotate perfectly then builds start to matter, let alone non meta builds; hence people playing troll builds because they out rotate you.

To put it in simpler terms:

You can be the best 1v1 king (for the people that rush far and be heroes), let it become a 2v1 and you lose, you are detrimental towards your teams progression since you will get +1 on any other point.

Back on topic

Run yolo builds, because all that it requires is outrotating the other team to “plus 1” fast enough to win a fight or know you are losing to push out to another point. Non meta builds will always win vs uncoordinated/duo+trio but fail vs meta build premades, and then people start to cry OP.

I used to D/D ele alot but its zz and too op, S/F ele is more fun and just as powerful.
I played alot of lockdown mes over the years but got bored, learning double ranged shatter now.

My main Necro is dagger/focus so yeah I don’t play meta a lot. but I still play meta build for my other toons.

Elitist.8701:

Why would you not play meta builds? Have fun being mediocre forever I guess.

Because how would you get worthless nonsense ppl running condi mesmers and zerk gs wars running around like headless chickens 24/7 while you soloq then? I can’t even imagine a pvp where everyone is playing something decent…not on gw2 at least, not with those pve guys playing for chests and achievements

Archaon.9524:

Because how would you get worthless nonsense ppl running condi mesmers and zerk gs wars running around like headless chickens 24/7 while you soloq then?

I seriously do hope that the “worthless nonsense” part was directed at “running around like headless chickens”, and not at the builds.

That being said; the word “meta” is kinda amusing me sometimes. Yesterday, after defeating a turret Engineer (which some call super-cheesy nonetheless) with a CONDI Mesmer (MtD shatter)… he kept on raging in mapchat about me being a noskill-PU-n00b (I don’t even run 6 points into Chaos and only have one source of stealth…) who can only play noskill-metabuilds… right; that came from a turret Engineer defeated by a condi-Mesmer. If I wouldn’t have been busy killing his friends who rushed in on me one by one, I would probably have facepalmed so hard that I might have hurt myself in the process.

Saturn.6591:

Elitist.8701:

Why would you not play meta builds?

Because some meta-builds are less viable in uncoordinated teams than non-meta builds are.

Exactly. Solo builds vs team builds are two completely different aspects. A Hambow might be ok, but if you’re not whomping and cclocking a team down for the rest of your team then its not as effective. If your team isn’t coordinated to focusing out targets then that time isn’t as useful either.

its much easier to play a build you can guarantee it’s power with you alone, than other builds that work much better in tandem with others.

For this reason one of my favorites how now been a cond warrior mixed with some power/.crit.

High dmg bleeds, torment, and posion with chill runes on swap. Couple forms of cc(Pindown, Blind arrow thing, s/s f1 bleed ability), few defensive abilities(fear, ednure pain, beserker).

Allows me to solo 1v1 pretty well, sometimes 1v2 until help arrives, and makes me a formidable foe in teamfights while i add heavy cond pressure, cc, and dmg.

Would this build be as viable versus coordinated comps? Helllll no.

Saturn.6591:

Archaon.9524:

Because how would you get worthless nonsense ppl running condi mesmers and zerk gs wars running around like headless chickens 24/7 while you soloq then?

I seriously do hope that the “worthless nonsense” part was directed at “running around like headless chickens”, and not at the builds.

That being said; the word “meta” is kinda amusing me sometimes. Yesterday, after defeating a turret Engineer (which some call super-cheesy nonetheless) with a CONDI Mesmer (MtD shatter)… he kept on raging in mapchat about me being a noskill-PU-n00b (I don’t even run 6 points into Chaos and only have one source of stealth…) who can only play noskill-metabuilds… right; that came from a turret Engineer defeated by a condi-Mesmer. If I wouldn’t have been busy killing his friends who rushed in on me one by one, I would probably have facepalmed so hard that I might have hurt myself in the process.

A condi mesmer is worthless for both being bad (Since good mesmers don’t run condition crap), so they have no clue about how to rotate and stuff AND being a condi mesmer (Usually they don’t even have portal)

so you’re pretty much 100% sure he’s gonna fail anyway, if i want conditions there are WAY better specs for dat…from rabid engi to condi wars and necros…not mesmers for sure

I’ve seen 2 pu mesmers hardtrying to kill a single shout war (not talking about any top war ofc…just an average shoutbow) and the war was just standing there (On HIS point since condi mes can’t even contest kitten) being like..“really?”

You often see pretty funny things in unranked…maybe you can troll something (If they’re weak enough against condis like engis) with condition mesmer…i guess…but that’s all..unless they are stupid enough to 2v1 a stealth spec instead of just leaving a spec with good condi cleanse on point and ignore you all game since most condi bs mesmers have this weird attitude to push far for some reason…even if they can’t contest it

When we go like 3q unranked (Since going full premade is both reterded and not fun) and there’s a condi mesmer the usual reaction on ts is like “Mes is condi…ignore him” change target, bring down all his mates and good to go…not gonna feed trolls who won’t do anything anyway

^You really seem to think that PU is the only condi-spec that Mesmers could possibly play, right? I assure you that MtD-shatter has enough condition pressure for most encounters.

So, let’s see. In a coordinated, pre-made team that is on the skill-level of the top teams, then yes. Shatter Mesmer might be the most viable choice due to what it can bring; especially since against coordinated top teams, condi Mesmer might not help a lot either.

But now you take a few steps down and think about queuing solo (or as a team that doesn’t always play in exactly the same constellation) against average players, with average players. Power shatter would be Thief-food, and that’s about it. They are also one-trick ponies and lack the sustain for prolonged fights. Totally unvaluable for this scenario. As condi-shatter, I can do so much more. I can quickly defeat many opponents 1vs1, and I can also often hold my own for a reasonable amount of time 1vs2 or 1vs3 even, until help arrives. I’ve actually even won 1vs2 before, although I have to admit those players must have been kinda bad (or I was just lucky). Then you also mention portal. Well; portal is really good in coordinated teams that know how to take advantage of it. But outside of that, it’s almost completely useless, and I’d rather take something that helps me and my team more.

I usually start with plain meta builds and then tweak them around..like atm I’m running a nice variation of cele rifle engi which sometimes falls into knight…i think that’s the way to go ;-)

I feel that you play what you like but make it work Some builds are only good for fun sadly. But you do not have to run strict meta and lots of class has few options so ye meta is not needed good player is

@Trevor Boyer I love Power Ranger but I have to say that is not our strongest build. I am currently toying with Condi Ranger and feel it is stronger. So when it comes to Ranger we are not meta. Spirit ranger also brings more to your team I would say (other spec I have been playing).
Yesterday match on Solo Ranked Que 2x Necro Ranger team vs meta classes haha I could not believe my eyes Mood before a game .. result was stunning..

http://youtu.be/xmJ8fS5exE4?list=PLDSrFjXKFzmmxoJkoSZkc0ro3G8YkDOW-

@Gaaaroth I would say that is the way you start and good idea.

Luki.8941:

I feel that you play what you like but make it work Some builds are only good for fun sadly. But you do not have to run strict meta and lots of class has few options so ye meta is not needed good player is

@Trevor Boyer I love Power Ranger but I have to say that is not our strongest build. I am currently toying with Condi Ranger and feel it is stronger. So when it comes to Ranger we are not meta. Spirit ranger also brings more to your team I would say (other spec I have been playing).
Yesterday match on Solo Ranked Que 2x Necro Ranger team vs meta classes haha I could not believe my eyes Mood before a game .. result was stunning..

http://youtu.be/xmJ8fS5exE4?list=PLDSrFjXKFzmmxoJkoSZkc0ro3G8YkDOW-

@Gaaaroth I would say that is the way you start and good idea.

celestial triple survival condi ranger is actually not dat bad…still better than power ranger anyway…

@Archaon Hm did not tried it yet but not sure if this spreading of points is best idea for condi ranger. You got link to build ? or is just regular condi with cele?

Luki.8941:

@Archaon Hm did not tried it yet but not sure if this spreading of points is best idea for condi ranger. You got link to build ? or is just regular condi with cele?

Something like this…i don’t really play ranger and i just made it in 3 minutes so you probably want to modify it a bit since there’s not really a standard spec for this

Also consider s/d instead of a/t for more survivability if they have heavy 1 shot bursts liek thieves and mesmers…just evade the kitten out of them, air instead of energy on sbow is not bad too if you feel you don’t need the extra dodge, expec if you are facing thieves/mesmers and running s/d

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNAnfVjMq0yaNLOsQ1aADhqZLkBMDgGwd8eDXdJjqC-TpRHABBcCAE4QAAwDAIk9HOqMQwHBAA

Archaon.9524:

-snip-

Do you think Countless’ condi Mesmer build is bad?

Jasher.6580:

Archaon.9524:

-snip-

Do you think Countless’ condi Mesmer build is bad?

Is that guy na? Cause i have no idea who he is…all good eu mesmers i know (Not that many still around anyway) are shatter.

Point is not all about condi mesmer bad or not, is more like…why should i want a condi mesmer if i can get a condi war, nec or engi who’s gonna do the same job even better.

I get a mesmer if i want aoe burst + boon removal and portal…that’s all mesmer is about, outside those things other classes have specs that can perform way better.

Real question is…is mesmer the best class for going condition?

And answer is no…trust me

It’s like tryharding to make a bunker (Or condi btw) thief…the only question that comes to mind is…why? Same goes for condi mesmer

Even dat celestial ranger thing i put down in 3 minutes is gonna be way better than a condi thief or mesmer…let alone meta builds…