Guild Wars 2

I’ve been running off meta condi guard builds in Conquest since last July/August. I know every counter to it. I know it’s strengths. I know how it should be played in Conquest.
Even though many consider 62600 the standard burn build, it’s very much “not meta”. To some its even scorned upon. To others, it’s OP. People are used to Zerks or some other Guard “meta” variant.

It works well enough for me

Archaon.9524:

(Since good mesmers don’t run condition crap),

Good players play however they want and strive to success and have fun.

I play meta builds on classes I don’t enjoy playing, just to attempt to get into their playstyle, but end up hating it.

But never play meta on my main because I enjoy playing it how I want.

Tao.5096:

Archaon.9524:

(Since good mesmers don’t run condition crap),

Good players play however they want and strive to success and have fun.

go tell that to noscoc….sure he had so much fun playing something not really suited to face orng comp…aside from terrible positioning and worthless +1s….

/salt

you can play whatever you want ofc, you can play condi mes, gs yolowar, condi thief or anything that comes to mind…

but if you are actually playing to win you can’t just play any kitten you want…you MUST play something that suits your team’s needs and the best you can possibly run on your class, otherwise you just gonna be a cripple for other 4 ppl….or do you really think that YOU having “fun” is worth making your team lose cause you’re playing bs specs?

So no…good players don’t play what they want, they play what their team NEEDS them to play in order to win, nothing more nothing less.

Archaon.9524:

Tao.5096:

Archaon.9524:

(Since good mesmers don’t run condition crap),

Good players play however they want and strive to success and have fun.

go tell that to noscoc….sure he had so much fun playing something not really suited to face orng comp…aside from terrible positioning and worthless +1s….

/salt

you can play whatever you want ofc, you can play condi mes, gs yolowar, condi thief or anything that comes to mind…

but if you are actually playing to win you can’t just play any kitten you want…you MUST play something that suits your team’s needs and the best you can possibly run on your class, otherwise you just gonna be a cripple for other 4 ppl….or do you really think that YOU having “fun” is worth making your team lose cause you’re playing bs specs?

So no…good players don’t play what they want, they play what their team NEEDS them to play in order to win, nothing more nothing less.

I’m gonna say yes and no to this. Most good teams have players that main a specific class. Granted most classes have more than one spec that “could be” viable. Mesmers don’t have this option for pvp really, so if the team needs something besides a shatter mes, the team is better off with another class.

i run my own build and rekts mostly everyone, well except the bunker specs.

Archaon.9524:

Tao.5096:

Archaon.9524:

(Since good mesmers don’t run condition crap),

Good players play however they want and strive to success and have fun.

go tell that to noscoc….sure he had so much fun playing something not really suited to face orng comp…aside from terrible positioning and worthless +1s….

/salt

you can play whatever you want ofc, you can play condi mes, gs yolowar, condi thief or anything that comes to mind…

but if you are actually playing to win you can’t just play any kitten you want…you MUST play something that suits your team’s needs and the best you can possibly run on your class, otherwise you just gonna be a cripple for other 4 ppl….or do you really think that YOU having “fun” is worth making your team lose cause you’re playing bs specs?

So no…good players don’t play what they want, they play what their team NEEDS them to play in order to win, nothing more nothing less.

You’re too much fixated over noscoc and how Abjured got shrekt.
You’re merging TeamQ with SoloQ.
Who cares what I run in SoloQ?
It’s not like I have 15 templates saved in my character menu and I can just ask my random teammates what they run so I’ll swap my build to match their.
And manually swapping whole build takes more than 30 seconds.

Even if you have a pre team for pvp matches, then that doesn’t mean you have to stick to meta.

And I respect people the most, when they surprise me with their builds and sync with teammates. Because it takes more than 3 seconds during fight to figure out what their build is and how to counter it.

Sorel.4870:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Depends how you define “meta”
That term is tossed around too lightly nowadays

Examples:

Cele/Rifle Engi or D/D Ele are true metas, unquestionably dominant for their class type
Then Power Rangers are considered meta but not the only viable option for Rangers

I don’t think you’re right about that since your example is bad. Condi engineer is way more effective right now than power ranger. It’s almost on par with cele rifle, while power ranger is nowhere as strong as condi survival ranger, which is considered “meta”. So meta does not mean that’s the only viable option the profession has, it just means that said builds are popular.

Also, at which point does my build become non-meta? If I play a celestial engineer with bomb kit, bomb traits and EG, am I still meta? If I play a meditation guardian without the hammer, am I still meta? If I play an Executioner d/p thief, am I still meta? The line is thin.

Eh? I was just asking a question, not making statements
I merely used Power Ranger as an example because most believe it is a dominant build

jportell.2197:

Archaon.9524:

Tao.5096:

Archaon.9524:

(Since good mesmers don’t run condition crap),

Good players play however they want and strive to success and have fun.

go tell that to noscoc….sure he had so much fun playing something not really suited to face orng comp…aside from terrible positioning and worthless +1s….

/salt

you can play whatever you want ofc, you can play condi mes, gs yolowar, condi thief or anything that comes to mind…

but if you are actually playing to win you can’t just play any kitten you want…you MUST play something that suits your team’s needs and the best you can possibly run on your class, otherwise you just gonna be a cripple for other 4 ppl….or do you really think that YOU having “fun” is worth making your team lose cause you’re playing bs specs?

So no…good players don’t play what they want, they play what their team NEEDS them to play in order to win, nothing more nothing less.

I’m gonna say yes and no to this. Most good teams have players that main a specific class. Granted most classes have more than one spec that “could be” viable. Mesmers don’t have this option for pvp really, so if the team needs something besides a shatter mes, the team is better off with another class.

atm probably strongest eu team is the french one imo (Eterniah’s team) and that’s because they have drazeh who can play almost everything and he’s really good on whatever he plays, always rerolling to hardcounters depending on enemy’s comp, also orng got some really bad beatings against them…

pepper.6179:

i run my own build and rekts mostly everyone, well except the bunker specs.

so pretty much all meta specs…except thief and shatter mes

I think all my favourite builds are not meta builds, I tend to play builds that I find fun- shadow arts thief, zerker meditation guard, power necro, zerker ranger, or some kind of hybrid ranger. All the meta builds I have played so far seem fairly boring to play.

start off not meta > get owned by meta > be turret engie.

I only play meta in ranked matches.

Tao.5096:

Archaon.9524:

(Since good mesmers don’t run condition crap),

Good players play however they want and strive to success and have fun.

This i agree with 100%

I tried the meta, it’s strong but i just dont enjoy it and having as much fun as i do on build i tailoring for my own playstyle, on other classes i can run meta and enjoy it and vice versa on some.

Well, as I said before, glassy power shatter Mesmer and portal are good in skilled and coordinated teams who play together all the time. Outside of this very specific scenario, they usually are more a liability than anything else (unless maybe the person who plays it outskills his opponents by a very high margin). So if I want to play Mesmer (it’s my main after all) in PvP, I rather play condi-shatter… helps my team so much more than if I’d play glassy shatter and die all the time cause my team doesn’t peel for me.

Saturn.6591:

Well, as I said before, glassy power shatter Mesmer and portal are good in skilled and coordinated teams who play together all the time. Outside of this very specific scenario, they usually are more a liability than anything else (unless maybe the person who plays it outskills his opponents by a very high margin). So if I want to play Mesmer (it’s my main after all) in PvP, I rather play condi-shatter… helps my team so much more than if I’d play glassy shatter and die all the time cause my team doesn’t peel for me.

Builds for soloq will not work in coordinated play, and coordinated builds will fail in soloq.

By the same standard, i would find builds like hambow and shoutbow MUCH more fun when my team knows what it’s doing versus when im with a bunch of new players who haven’t the slightest clue, what they’re doing.

Archaon.9524:

pepper.6179:

i run my own build and rekts mostly everyone, well except the bunker specs.

so pretty much all meta specs…except thief and shatter mes

you’ll be surprised i actually seen a lot of non meta specs being used when i go play pvp. Maybe its something with mmr

pepper.6179:

Archaon.9524:

pepper.6179:

i run my own build and rekts mostly everyone, well except the bunker specs.

so pretty much all meta specs…except thief and shatter mes

you’ll be surprised i actually seen a lot of non meta specs being used when i go play pvp. Maybe its something with mmr

ofc i faceroll p/p thieves, gs wars and so on all day, expec in unranked…but many ppl playing bs doesn’t mean it’s meant to be played…not at any decent level at least…

Tao.5096:

CuRtoKy.8576:

Tao.5096:

Elitist.8701:

Why would you not play meta builds? Have fun being mediocre forever I guess.

Implying that Meta makes everyone good? :v

But the reverse isn’t good anyways. People with less experience shouldn’t kitten themselves when their skill level isn’t there. Running something that they made up on their own or some odd build isn’t going to help them. Might as well play something that is proven to work and build up skill.

OP didn’t point out to whom this question is specifically forwarded, so I assumed it’s about experienced players.
Therefore my answer to Elitist’s post was like that.
You on the other hand think, inexperienced players should run meta.

In my opinion, inexperienced players shouldn’t land in the same queue as experienced players – they’re ruining experience for those who did their homework.
Not that I have something against them, but I’m against current matchmaking which in fact made quite a number of PvP community being disgusted with it and I understand them.
Therefore, META build, which in fact in this game, in PvP mode is nothing, but nothing more than just a silly build that is used by some overfanboyed streamers and ESL players.
For newbies, META build may be something which is more like a starting point for them, instead of something that does succeed.

Calling nonMeta builds mediocre is also silly.
Uncountable amount of times where a nonMeta which should make people mediocre, has rekt Meta users is a fact.

The only reason why I am so against using that Meta term in every possible situation, and call it the best thing possible, is only because it does kill brain cells and make people believe that build diversity is non-existent – many people already behave like that and talk like that, which for me is quite funny, because after all that time they spent playing, their knowledge is comparable with newbie who just started Gw2.

Hence, I’ll repeat – Those popular builds aren’t bad, but sticking to it like a glue isn’t a way to go. And amount of players that use them forever and never improve, or are plainly in stagnation is very high.

Well said Tao.

I will add that OP did infact say SPvP, not TPvP. Sometimes meta builds will greatly underperform given their situation. For example, many Guardians ran Bunker in SPvP when it was meta. Many players performed terribly… because he’s a bunk guardian and it’s SPvP… the build is heavily dependant on his team and their rotations.

To my humor, every guardian and their mothers are using Tage’s hammer build now. In SPVP where most players are uncoordinated with each other, the build doesn’t exactly perform all that great compared to 21614 GS variant; simply because, the Hammer is a higher risk weapon.

Higher risk will always yield poorer performances within the overal population. There are now more bad (specifically NA) Guardians out there performing worse than ever.

I play my own builds; i like to test & try different kinds of stuff and I find it funnier this way. I don’t feel like i’m underperforming though i could always play better.

I play meta all the time. For few reasons. First one being that I want to give my best for my team to win- I will train mecanics, learn other class’ skills, animations, maps, plays, etc. and I will use the build that is optimised and was tested on the highest competitive scene. Second reason being that I don’t enjoy wining by tricks, gimmicks or whatever you may call it- build wars’ing. I don’t mind other people knowing exactly what I’m runing. I want to beat them through my own skill or lose and through this try to improve myself so next time I will do better.
I can easly see how some people might react to that statement- "you treat it too serious and I only want to have fun". My answer is that it is fun for me. I play to win or to lose and improve. And exactly this I find enjoyable.

Saiyan.1704:

To my humor, every guardian and their mothers are using Tage’s hammer build now. In SPVP where most players are uncoordinated with each other, the build doesn’t exactly perform all that great compared to 21614 GS variant; simply because, the Hammer is a higher risk weapon.

Funny that you say that, because I’ve only ever seen two Guardians using a Hammer so far; one of those was in Skyhammer and might have just been equipped for this map. All the other Guardians (and there are MANY of them) that I’ve seen, were using GS and scepter/focus… some might have been using sword instead of scepter.

Maybe you are playing in NA? I’m talking about EU Unranked here.

adam.8692:

I play meta all the time. For few reasons. First one being that I want to give my best for my team to win- I will train mecanics, learn other class’ skills, animations, maps, plays, etc. and I will use the build that is optimised and was tested on the highest competitive scene. Second reason being that I don’t enjoy wining by tricks, gimmicks or whatever you may call it- build wars’ing. I don’t mind other people knowing exactly what I’m runing. I want to beat them through my own skill or lose and through this try to improve myself so next time I will do better.
I can easly see how some people might react to that statement- “you treat it too serious and I only want to have fun”. My answer is that it is fun for me. I play to win or to lose and improve. And exactly this I find enjoyable.

The problem with meta is it has nothing to do with YOU being your best. Meta has to do with what’s best as a TEAM. Your meta build, no matter how well you play it, is worthless if your teamplay does not capitalize on its advantages.

That’s the hwole reason builds like “shoutbow” work because its a team support. If your team can’t utilize it, its useless. This is why in spvp unranked solo builds perform beta, because on the off chance your team is coordinated they’ll still do ok, versus doing a lot better with those coordinated teams.

Tricks and gimmicks are unrelated. Individual skill also is unrelated to meta builds. it might help you play the meta build in a non meta environment better, but as it stands, again, meta is more for teamplay.

Saturn.6591:

Saiyan.1704:

To my humor, every guardian and their mothers are using Tage’s hammer build now. In SPVP where most players are uncoordinated with each other, the build doesn’t exactly perform all that great compared to 21614 GS variant; simply because, the Hammer is a higher risk weapon.

Funny that you say that, because I’ve only ever seen two Guardians using a Hammer so far; one of those was in Skyhammer and might have just been equipped for this map. All the other Guardians (and there are MANY of them) that I’ve seen, were using GS and scepter/focus… some might have been using sword instead of scepter.

Maybe you are playing in NA? I’m talking about EU Unranked here.

This is strictly NA. Right after WTS, every Guardian I saw was using hammer. Even the few unranked games that I played.
As a matter of fact the 3 Guardians in our 2v2 tournament were running hammer too. It’s a thing.

Saiyan.1704:

Saturn.6591:

Saiyan.1704:

To my humor, every guardian and their mothers are using Tage’s hammer build now. In SPVP where most players are uncoordinated with each other, the build doesn’t exactly perform all that great compared to 21614 GS variant; simply because, the Hammer is a higher risk weapon.

Funny that you say that, because I’ve only ever seen two Guardians using a Hammer so far; one of those was in Skyhammer and might have just been equipped for this map. All the other Guardians (and there are MANY of them) that I’ve seen, were using GS and scepter/focus… some might have been using sword instead of scepter.

Maybe you are playing in NA? I’m talking about EU Unranked here.

This is strictly NA. Right after WTS, every Guardian I saw was using hammer. Even the few unranked games that I played.
As a matter of fact the 3 Guardians in our 2v2 tournament were running hammer too. It’s a thing.

Lol okay. That reminds me; I think I might have seen a third Guardian with hammer. I mainly remember because one of my team once found it’s a good idea to Banish the person I was stomping for no apparent reason… or maybe it was a Longbow Ranger… I really don’t remember haha. But yeah. If I wouldn’t have seen it on metabattle a couple days ago, I would never have guessed that hammer is the actual meta for Guardians currently. And I also think the last time I’ve seen a Guardian using hammer was actually BEFORE the WTS finals.

Meta or not meta what counts is what you enjoy problem is when you have to be viable to play this one build which you hate (even because you have to play it). I do not think it is that case expect for which is funny meta classes. Of course if you compare their build from outside meta they could be as strong as our main build.
Other thing is how much you can customize this so called meta build Example Ranger:

Our Power build : There is only one line rest is totally up to you. Probably most customized build. That was only meta build which was on list for some time.
I play version which is bit different then meta and I still think it is strong and does not limit me. You can check it by looking at my signature:

Build which I have been using recently it is variation on Condi Survival build but I use torch and some talents which I feel are critical for me so it also bit different and not meta so we have a choice. Below link if you want to check it out.
https://youtu.be/1w2kbCbpZIk?list=PLDSrFjXKFzmmxoJkoSZkc0ro3G8YkDOW-

Summary:
Ranger as class had semi build meta Power Ranger but still you could make it highly customized. We still have condi and spirit build which is also customized. So it is in good position as option to choose. What we lack is that we are bottom as class probably with Necro.

What about your classes ? I know that Engi, Thief and Ele are limited as far I know.
How do you see your class? Do you feel you have viable options except meta and /or can you customized it to point to being still about as strong as it is.
For me that is important because if meta limits you to one build where you can change skill or two.. then it sucks.

I wrote this before what would solve many problems is to make mode like team deathmach where you can sign only in teams in 2v2 3v3 Unranked for start.
Many builds which currently are not viable would be in this mode.
People also could work on your combo fields combos because you would be in one place and only 2 or 3 people. I think it would develop better understanding of class and how they interact with each other. Where on normal mode there is not that much time for it.
Main thing it would be only team vs team which I think is the way ranked should be played.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

adam.8692:

I play meta all the time. For few reasons. First one being that I want to give my best for my team to win- I will train mecanics, learn other class’ skills, animations, maps, plays, etc. and I will use the build that is optimised and was tested on the highest competitive scene. Second reason being that I don’t enjoy wining by tricks, gimmicks or whatever you may call it- build wars’ing. I don’t mind other people knowing exactly what I’m runing. I want to beat them through my own skill or lose and through this try to improve myself so next time I will do better.
I can easly see how some people might react to that statement- “you treat it too serious and I only want to have fun”. My answer is that it is fun for me. I play to win or to lose and improve. And exactly this I find enjoyable.

The problem with meta is it has nothing to do with YOU being your best. Meta has to do with what’s best as a TEAM. Your meta build, no matter how well you play it, is worthless if your teamplay does not capitalize on its advantages.

That’s the hwole reason builds like “shoutbow” work because its a team support. If your team can’t utilize it, its useless. This is why in spvp unranked solo builds perform beta, because on the off chance your team is coordinated they’ll still do ok, versus doing a lot better with those coordinated teams.

Tricks and gimmicks are unrelated. Individual skill also is unrelated to meta builds. it might help you play the meta build in a non meta environment better, but as it stands, again, meta is more for teamplay.

Hello? This is a TEAM game based around teamfights and rotations

Archaon.9524:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

adam.8692:

I play meta all the time. For few reasons. First one being that I want to give my best for my team to win- I will train mecanics, learn other class’ skills, animations, maps, plays, etc. and I will use the build that is optimised and was tested on the highest competitive scene. Second reason being that I don’t enjoy wining by tricks, gimmicks or whatever you may call it- build wars’ing. I don’t mind other people knowing exactly what I’m runing. I want to beat them through my own skill or lose and through this try to improve myself so next time I will do better.
I can easly see how some people might react to that statement- “you treat it too serious and I only want to have fun”. My answer is that it is fun for me. I play to win or to lose and improve. And exactly this I find enjoyable.

The problem with meta is it has nothing to do with YOU being your best. Meta has to do with what’s best as a TEAM. Your meta build, no matter how well you play it, is worthless if your teamplay does not capitalize on its advantages.

That’s the hwole reason builds like “shoutbow” work because its a team support. If your team can’t utilize it, its useless. This is why in spvp unranked solo builds perform beta, because on the off chance your team is coordinated they’ll still do ok, versus doing a lot better with those coordinated teams.

Tricks and gimmicks are unrelated. Individual skill also is unrelated to meta builds. it might help you play the meta build in a non meta environment better, but as it stands, again, meta is more for teamplay.

Hello? This is a TEAM game based around teamfights and rotations

But also, HELLO, none of your 4 other teammates are ging to be in as amazing sync with plays and matchups as a coodinated 5’s ranked team will be, or a team that’s knows what they’re doing.

5 Skilled players who know how to interact with each other, is VERY VERY different than 5players queing separately and trying to work together.
few things separate it out

1) Knowledge of builds and counters
2) due to 1, knowledge of how to best lockdown a team using your teams abilities and when to foloowup
3) Self skill
4) Knowledge of maps, vantage points, when to cap/rotate, to treb, etc
5)PvP experience itself with dodging, predicting skills, landing cc appropriately.

This is always less prevalent in unranked, and low ranked in any game, and as you get higher, everyone gains more of the knowledge in that list, and so trick builds or non meta builds become far less viable than builds meant to actually support a team that knows what they’re doing

Ah…. Totally agree with you. When I soloQ, I always roll a class that can actually kill and stomp to turn the tide of the fight. My build would be at times no meta at all, as long as they are effective in the chaotic scenario. I also have a friend who would play a super glassy one shot build in unranked – as in an average of 19 kills per match – and only play serious meta during scrims.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

If everyone played the meta, the meta would never change.

When everyone plays meta, ANet makes skill change so the meta changes too. Otherwise it would never change.